India’s urban centres are expanding at breakneck speed, but its creaking transport systems are struggling. Traffic congestion, poor road safety, air pollution and lack of parking space are challenges that must be solved if we are to have sustainable urban growth.
Sobia Rafiq and Sukhmani Grover, who are engaging with communities and working with the government to untangle the mess in Bangalore, speak to All Indians Matter about what the rest of India can learn from the Bengaluru Moving initiative.
00:00:00 Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to all Indians matter I must of engineer. 00:00:03 Speaker 1: As India's urban centres expand quickly, creaking transport systems are struggling. There is a pressing need to transform urban mobility. 00:00:11 Speaker 1: Traffic congestion, poor road safety, air pollution and lack of parking space are serious urban transportation challenges that must be solved if we are to have sustainable urban growth. 00:00:24 Speaker 1: All Indians matter. 00:00:28 Speaker 1: We are on the show to guests was striving to make a difference and architect an urban planner. So B. Rafique is committed to solving complex environmental issues in India's cities. This led to her working with a variety of factors, from municipalities and state government bodies to private organisations and resident communities. She is the cofounder 00:00:45 Speaker 1: of sensing local new bank that is working across sectors like solid waste management, 00:00:50 Speaker 1: air pollution, sustainable mobility, water management and way finding systems. Sensing local has a strong belief in the power of ground up citizen led participatory planning to make a city's more livable and sustainable. She is a post graduate from the city's department at the London School of Economics and Social Science 00:01:08 Speaker 1: Soup Money Go, meanwhile, is director assistant citizen engagement for the young leaders for active citizenship or while Suk Money is a development strategist and practitioner with extensive experience at the intersection of policy, grassroots mobilisation and active citizenship. She is a graduate from the College of Business Studies, 00:01:26 Speaker 1: University of Delhi and has an M A in sociology. 00:01:29 Speaker 1: Suk Money has worked with a Tony Blair Faith Foundation on experiential learning and with UNICEF for building a citizen's charter. She learned community organising from Harvard Kennedy School. 00:01:40 Speaker 1: So B and Suk money our drivers of the Bengaluru Moving campaign. It is a mobility campaign to solve the problems of ever present traffic congestion, cumbersome commutes and air pollution. In the Bengaluru metropolitan area, the average citizen spends more than 240 hours stuck in traffic every year. This means that they are less productive, 00:01:59 Speaker 1: There is dirty A 00:02:00 Speaker 1: and goods and services are more expensive. The campaign inch to develop robust, accessible, non more Christ transport systems, such as walking, cycling and related infrastructure that are also gender inclusive and prioritise women's safety. The campaign has achieved a measure of success in today we speak to Serbia and suit money about the need for better urban mobility in India and potential solutions welcomes a B and soup money 00:02:24 Speaker 2: hire shop. Thank you Firing. 00:02:30 Speaker 1: It's a both. So let's try to S o B in suk money. India is organising at a rapid rate. In the 19 oh one census, the urban population was 11.4% of the total. By 2001, it had risen 28.53% and by 2017 it was 34%. The rate is rising further. According to a UN study, it will be 40.76% by 2030. 00:03:00 Speaker 1: This is a non fact. We continue to see a rise in the ownership of private where he can. So how does foresee this will impact the city's? What is the role of sustainable modes of transportation? Samir, you could go first and suck money. They maybe you could follow. 00:03:16 Speaker 2: So, um, in rightly, as you said, organisation of past health increase tremendous me and 00:03:22 Speaker 2: coming from Bangalore distant give you the example of Anglo because I think it's been one of lowest underdog cities that have really jumped up now to the talks. We are on 80 lock vehicles in 2019. We are second only to Delhi, 00:03:36 Speaker 2: however, which is Delhi, which is actually 1.5 road or vehicle. 00:03:41 Speaker 2: However, we are sitting on 80 lock vehicles, only 10,000 kilometres of road. Mint 00:03:45 Speaker 2: deli at least has 30,000 kilometres of movement. 00:03:49 Speaker 2: What this means is that I have less infrastructure. I have more medicals, almost 5 to 6 lakh. Very Katara Gary added. And with covet, we know that has increased further because the adoption of public transport is reduced, people taking other modes to just prevent being exposed. Also his reduced. We have a lot of people that have also started buying cards 00:04:08 Speaker 2: A just in to ensure safe transport 00:04:11 Speaker 2: and impact. When you go back to bangle, be has one of the examples right and we're seeing this across all our cities where public transport is really lacking or my any other sustainable mode infrastructure is backing. 00:04:24 Speaker 2: We see that, 00:04:26 Speaker 2: for instance, buses 00:04:27 Speaker 2: you need 1.2 buses per 1000 people. 00:04:31 Speaker 2: That is the norm. As per the act. A city like Bangla needs around 15,000 buses. 00:04:36 Speaker 2: What we have right now is around 6000. 00:04:39 Speaker 2: That's again 00:04:40 Speaker 2: when we talk about Metro, a metro project here has been like going on for years. Like everyone, kilometre is sufficient for one lakh population 00:04:51 Speaker 2: bangle 100 kilometres. Guess sitting on 42 kilometres. So what you're CEO is that my traffic is increasing. Their public transport is always. Infrastructure is always lagging behind. It's going to be less people that are working, less people, taking cycling or any other moons. What you're coming back down to is at least to look at neighbourhoods 00:05:11 Speaker 2: but unsure if people have realised the quality of upper parts in our Indian cities. Even that prevents even the basic of a neighbourhood that you can walk in 00:05:20 Speaker 2: from happening. So I think like soup money can definitely add into that. But yes, sustainable mobility is a huge aspect. But because we cannot, we do not have faced to increase Agca's anymore, which is this non negotiable? 00:05:38 Speaker 1: I think adding to that, this definitely has a large impact on our cities and our day to day life. Also, we have been working in Bangalore you for a few months now, and a shock mobility and some of the things our feet have closely observed is definitely there is a need for sustainable transport like with increasing urban population, we all know that congestion has been increasing. This 00:05:57 Speaker 1: time spent in commuting is indicative of the problems that come with increasing ownership and the use of private vehicles more over 95% of the Indian transport sectors. Demand for fuel is met by a petroleum based derivative, so get another important consideration. 00:06:12 Speaker 1: Also, vehicular emissions have been contributing to air pollution, which has led to several respiratory ailments and even deaths 00:06:19 Speaker 1: for the building. More and bigger roads or highway is unlikely to solve the problem, and still recently this has been the effort because winding roads has never really been the solution to reducing condition. If we expand roads, 00:06:31 Speaker 1: additional traffic sweeps in to fill the extra space, and the phenomenon is commonly referred to as in EU's demands and the idea that once supply increases, the suppressed demand for a good Reza faces and more of it is consumed. This is specially seen in the case of transportation systems, and it's often used as an argument against increasing road capacity as a solution to congestions. 00:06:51 Speaker 1: Therefore, basin Odin need to incentivise them, design better public transport and also improve pedestrian access and force my last meal connectivity of kind of services. 00:07:02 Speaker 1: Another important thing is creation of France. It helps with different moods intersect that can also service generators of economic activity as well as active cultural notes for the cities. 00:07:12 Speaker 1: A focus shit also be on moving people rather than vehicles. That approach will definitely help us better developed better solutions. Lastly at, say, a rich countries in one where the four own cast but one were the rich use public transport. And that should be our, you know, ideally effort, vision, 00:07:30 Speaker 1: everything. That dude I see. I identify with so much because all of these things I am saying in Bombay to where I live. You know what you spoke about? The Metro. You spoke over the lack of wide enough roads and all of those things, like I could identify more. So we are. How does mobility flow affect the process of urbanisation itself? For example, 00:07:50 Speaker 1: can it affected city special morphology? 00:07:53 Speaker 2: Absolutely. So 00:07:56 Speaker 2: I mean, I think you guys must be aware by a Mumbai master plan was also in a hold. A lot of opposition. Same thing has happened in Bangalore as well. We don't have a master plan. 00:08:05 Speaker 2: We don't have a plan to go basically right. And when we don't have a plan to growth, growth is still going to happen because the Six Cities and Opportunity So I am going to continue to have a flow of people and people are going to appropriate space. Private guys are going to continue to buy land and compute a bill because there is a demand. 00:08:24 Speaker 2: However, if used, think back and say if I actually capped the capacity of the city, 00:08:31 Speaker 2: half are still left. People activate that use that active city engineer spent on the Jones. 00:08:38 Speaker 2: What this means is you start looking at regional level of 00:08:41 Speaker 2: so if I had speed, rail 00:08:44 Speaker 2: or Metro very foreigners that connected me to outer town. So in in Bangla, very interestingly, you have to you have my so all within 1.5 2 hours a distance. However, by the real connect, the little people could still with level those places and come here to work. 00:09:01 Speaker 2: Work from home is also increasing. 00:09:03 Speaker 2: But what this requires his his mobility. You can control the growth of your city if you plan your connexions for people to move will between or in and out a few. City similarly comes to aspects like looking at for small A Last night. I will take the Metro if 00:09:23 Speaker 2: it's easy for me to walk to the Metro 00:09:25 Speaker 2: and for me to get to my workplace, who from them a trossman. If I don't have last month an activity and I don't have an integration of my last month and see whether it be within a model change between the same world I will not take it is just inconvenience life. It goes down to even the basically saying having parking 00:09:44 Speaker 2: act a metro station 00:09:45 Speaker 2: and that the land along with the Metro station itself and use all often see all of that where the Metro looks at only met through as um and it doesn't look at Where is my demands. One to come out of, I indicate to the bus also indicates with the also zar to integrate with shared cycle and 00:10:01 Speaker 2: similarly with your regional rails that you have to be really Look at them, 00:10:06 Speaker 2: be on just the aspect of okay and connecting a city to a city. But connect you or rail from the Mysore. Some ice over there coming towards station to then the Metro stations. Then they So yes, it is integral to control 00:10:21 Speaker 2: organisation. There is no other way. You make the movement easy and people will move out. 00:10:27 Speaker 1: They are absolutely a development. This access to our mum, mobility of the lack of it, 00:10:33 Speaker 1: impact the poor differently from the well of millions of money. You can go first this time and then severe 00:10:38 Speaker 1: A. Yessir. So I would like to address this more from an inclusive inclusivity lens like what is do we need to consider to make the mobility lands came in the city more inclusive 00:10:49 Speaker 1: so well. People living in cities constantly attempt to balance time spending tower with their employment and other social opportunities. 00:10:57 Speaker 1: But the poor sections, the options are narrowly packed like they're constrained not only by the cost of transportation but also the nature of employment. It is often entrenched in local network, so as a result, poorer sections either end up living in substandard living environments more closer to their places of world, 00:11:15 Speaker 1: are travelling over longer distances or choosing inexpensive nonmotorised means of transport such as cycling, walking in share transport, 00:11:23 Speaker 1: But in contrast. For the relatively well off, there is more leeway in terms of commute distance as well as commute frequency and options that one can afford. 00:11:31 Speaker 1: So for for a sections were fighting the housing livelihood. Mobility balance becomes a bedrock for well being if we can somehow enable more affordable, say for faster and efficient urban mobility solutions. And and it's not easy. But I mean, if we can have their integrated a force, it can really help in their social mobility 00:11:50 Speaker 1: and significantly improved quality of life sets want to think from all of these perspectives 00:11:56 Speaker 1: and to achieve this, we definitely need to look at how the city can be designed to enable travel in a more inclusive manner. 00:12:02 Speaker 1: So these are some of the important questions that we need to ask us. Different stakeholders need to look at, and this would need to go hand in hand with the land use and affordable housing policies which understand the strong linkages between housing, locations and access to live for low income households. 00:12:18 Speaker 2: I think adding towards took money said and housing of cost, that's one of the main reasons that you see these Chandi towns also, there because people do want to afford. I think what I would really like to put is that 00:12:32 Speaker 2: for the four, there is no choice 00:12:35 Speaker 2: for the rich. All of this is a choice, 00:12:38 Speaker 2: and that is the 00:12:40 Speaker 2: like. Bill doing surveys with utilitarian cyclist security guards. Mail. We don't have a choice. They have to cycle by. This road is good or bad. They will continue the cycle. Tomorrow you put a cycle lane, you just 00:12:52 Speaker 2: improving and Gilligan, that's additional, more comfort, which any Lee they would have actually that without even that right? So you're better civil public transport during Koval with, In fact, public transport, which is in biologics, been a part of doing these surveys in in a few of the neighbourhoods around in band, 00:13:12 Speaker 2: it is so sad that they don't even notice decisions for them. It's become just a way of it's of weather too expensive to access 00:13:20 Speaker 2: public transport, the fact that they don't have enough of subsidies for it all in just basic aspects, like safety security, right? There are dark streets that stretches. Bus stands are only unsafe. No public toilets close by. People are just like it is so inhumane 00:13:36 Speaker 2: and they've just learn to live. Is it because they don't have a choice? And if we start, 00:13:41 Speaker 2: if we design our city for get any, 00:13:46 Speaker 2: if you're not designing our cities for the poor, everyone will get included and everyone. So I think just getting that perspective of the poor and how they use and what is most important to them has to be our starting point of investigating into any 00:14:01 Speaker 2: because without that perspective, you will just not get anywhere right. And they are the most important voices to bring into the room, 00:14:08 Speaker 2: whether admitted through conversation. Also, you just observation of what we think. But I think that would definitely be one of the key things that we are also looking at driving in. 00:14:19 Speaker 1: That's a critical point, actually, Sophia. So me. Let me start with you and then maybe soup money. You can chip in also. So what of the top three barriers, according to each of feel 00:14:30 Speaker 1: for the adoption of sustainable modes of transportation? 00:14:33 Speaker 2: For me, Actually, it's It's not even for me. It's come through a lot of service that we have been doing over the last 23 months 00:14:41 Speaker 2: and well done it with, for instance, he's done it with cyclists. There are, you know, using cycle for recreation, of to go to work as well as utilitarian side 00:14:50 Speaker 2: a talk his comm a safety 00:14:54 Speaker 2: followed by the aspect of the convenience 00:14:58 Speaker 2: and the lack of infrastructure. 00:15:00 Speaker 2: And these three things have been very critical because for me to ensure there's infrastructure, you require the government to step in to actually build that infrastructure, which is again a high cost 00:15:12 Speaker 2: to ensure safety. It requires basic things, right street lighting. It requires patrolling across areas that there is no crime. That happens. Dead and convenience is something of a behaviour change. So I have to as a person in In doing city planning, 00:15:29 Speaker 2: I have to ensure that public transport actually competes with transport. 00:15:33 Speaker 2: How do I do this by dis incentivising a car usage and incentivising public transport usage or incentivising people to you Cycle lanes. A very interesting thing in this regard with it, At least if I look at the other challenges and issued its 00:15:50 Speaker 2: if I make all of this or sol for these three, I will automatically move towards 00:15:56 Speaker 2: actually improvising views. 00:15:59 Speaker 1: So this adding towards a V a share and looking back from what we have also heard from our on ground communities. 00:16:05 Speaker 1: So while talking about the top bad years or mobility challenges, I think it is vital definitely to look at city planning 00:16:13 Speaker 1: because how the Indian cities are designed, they're not at all conducive penalty. Like you can see the case of Bengaluru as well as Delhi and other cities, 00:16:22 Speaker 1: our cities are going without proper planning. So again bringing back to the point that a shed before about housing livelihood mobility equation so that needs to be really planned in tandem with each other's again. As a result, this can tend to spread to white without adequate mobility lines catering to them. So the day to day life really becomes full of hassles, 00:16:41 Speaker 1: along with these various currently a shortage of sustainable public transport options for various groups and 00:16:47 Speaker 1: that also kind of connexions to how people are relying more on the private transport and that is leading to higher congestion. 00:16:55 Speaker 1: So with these issues of sitting city planning class, there is increasing population and like there is not a reliable public transport outside for different sectors, so definitely more people pray for owning their own vehicles if they can, 00:17:08 Speaker 1: and ultimately adding to the cycle of congestion. Another value of the important thing and so be also mentioned about that is the lack of safety and affordability before affordability is a concern, and so is safety, especially for women 00:17:21 Speaker 1: and other people from vehicle socioeconomic backgrounds like, as per one of the study's. We refer to leave 9% of women in Indian cities field public transparency completely safe, 00:17:31 Speaker 1: and only 3% claimed it is completely unsafe. So, according according to Be need to design interventions, in a way, they're people feel that it's safe as well as affordable to access is better again. Inclusivity is and lens that things really need to 00:17:44 Speaker 1: Fitton. So safety is a bigger concern, not just within buses or Mexico's, but also there's a lack of supporting infrastructure, like from the Inro surveys ever happening, a valid for parts of missing. There are not enough options for safer for smile, and a small connectivity is when these things are not there. Someone would not 00:18:04 Speaker 1: prefer taking a bus or a metro over kind of using other private Peters and other options available. So it's very important to Saurav. Look at it from this perspective as well. 00:18:14 Speaker 1: I think these are very important points and you framed the problems very well. Sunamganj put you both on the spot and asking for the solutions to these problems also, So there will be other alternative sequences. For one question, it's only our first and for the next question is so if money for this term suk many of us. 00:18:31 Speaker 1: So I think it's very important like, for instance, are accepting give us city planning, so making it more conducive team on motorised transport gives us the most leaner and inclusive cities. 00:18:42 Speaker 1: A pedestrian isation is another important aspect to look at having cycle lanes, 00:18:47 Speaker 1: well lick streets and designing cities from a perspective of someone who's walking and cycling right now. What happened? The cities are designed from the perspective of someone who has said driving on the road, but rather we need to think of imagine it. More people go to work in cycles. What is it that needs to be added to the existing infrastructure? 00:19:04 Speaker 1: Also encouraging mixed use Neighbours, I think, will go a long way because more you have vibrant public spaces out there that harbour more community participation. More people want to be out there and using those spaces and maybe ditch their private people's and be like out and there with everyone we can see. There are several examples, like European cities, who have adopted this pedestrian in cycle friendly of votes. 00:19:26 Speaker 1: For instance, in Hamburg, the goal was to make all urban spaces completely accessible, by footed. By so such commitments will really go along with making our city's more by Brenton livable and some of our project at the focusing on there as well 00:19:40 Speaker 1: for in terms of long term sustainable transit planning, I mean, it's important that people's mobility need sustainability approaches well, stronger focus in public transport is definitely going like, you know, it's a long term of votes that we need to fall over, keeping in mind how that can be a more sustainable options as well. 00:20:00 Speaker 1: Diversification, I think, is another important thing, because 00:20:04 Speaker 1: as a public transport you need to cater to various groups and keeping in mind the different concerns, like about safety, access, affordability and even sometimes people need to make shorted life. Some people need to make longer tricks of their their needs, very. Some have immediate needs some me to travel long distances or take the luggage along or something. So this multimodal integration 00:20:23 Speaker 1: and having adequate for smile and last merican activity were also help. People choose more wisely from those serum options that are available to their divorce options. I'd rather they can choose that bourses, you know, moving back to choosing my own car to travel. And I think lastly, then we're talking about safety and affordability as a poor of city in transport planning, it's very foreign to consider that house states are are footpaths like Do people feel safe? The women be feel safe walking out on in the streets? Are they well, it other in a vise on the street at to ensure pedestrians field saves other enough female workforce within public transport departments? I think that's again another area we need to start looking at the first in public transport 00:21:05 Speaker 1: employees. Drivers are only male drivers. That might not encourage 00:21:09 Speaker 1: many people to use these facilities later in the night. So if there are more women out there even who are driving the economy, I think that'll also helps of some of from our side. 00:21:20 Speaker 2: I really 00:21:22 Speaker 2: active Suk many's, but from a little more local scale. So let's get down to the street right now. And 00:21:29 Speaker 2: how do we actually resolve all these issues? So 00:21:33 Speaker 2: we've been pushing a lot towards neighbourhood, reclaiming their streets. 00:21:38 Speaker 2: You have so many initiatives that have been done on a trial basis in India itself. 00:21:44 Speaker 2: A BF arrest in isation of streets 00:21:48 Speaker 2: calling for Castries, Oon 00:21:49 Speaker 2: looking at just place making, which is a terminology that's used to say that I meet what soup money was also mentioning about ice industry. You actually make people feel like they like the place. There are places to cause they're places to rest their places to enjoy. 00:22:05 Speaker 2: And this actually comes from a perspective, you know, in India so used to London like firing 00:22:12 Speaker 2: and instead, if he started working more towards incentive isation, it's so much more fun to do that right If I had an elect the example of this very interesting thing 00:22:24 Speaker 2: My work from my hospital in London 00:22:28 Speaker 2: to college, which is L S e is a 15 minute walk. 00:22:31 Speaker 2: But I would do that work. 00:22:33 Speaker 2: Whereas a five minute walk down my street is quite a doctor. 00:22:38 Speaker 2: It's official while while that there is an option of a bus present option of But if you choose to do the work. 00:22:45 Speaker 2: So this is because I had good infrastructure. 00:22:49 Speaker 2: I forsee 00:22:50 Speaker 2: There was always actives runs. I had beautiful places along my route which I would love actually seeing in viewing. So you have to understand that it is when we resolve this, it doesn't have to be a finding it doesn't even have to be too big or higher next. 00:23:07 Speaker 2: It just needs to be simple things what people want to reclaim for their neighbourhood. So 00:23:11 Speaker 2: example, what we're doing in Malaysia, Um is there claiming Conservancy lanes to be walking on the streets. 00:23:18 Speaker 2: Nobody utilised at least 17. There was service lanes, 00:23:22 Speaker 2: ages back when we had our whole neighbourhoods made, basically meant to take out the waste garbage. And this scavenging that used to happen now delays the line. The funds, but reclaiming them only for working will ensure that people work there because they know that they're they're not faced with moving vehicles. Barone has broken foot paths they have would share his past. 00:23:41 Speaker 2: So these times of things will really go a long way in just 00:23:45 Speaker 2: pushing for more accessibility as well as use of the 00:23:53 Speaker 1: situation on policy gaps or visit lack of funding. Or is it poor execution or something ends Sonia, maybe you can go first, and then 00:24:02 Speaker 2: I think it's they're putting blinders. The only look at cards we do look at this human scale at all. And it's true because, you know, you see when even when you look at, uh, planners right 00:24:17 Speaker 2: after city level, there are doing these master plans and at the government level, 00:24:23 Speaker 2: you it's a mailing, right? The all experienced this, but you never look at this as far as your experience of the city. Why don't you work? So you really diminished at human scale on you, only looking at the big things. And I think there is money. 00:24:37 Speaker 2: There is. There are policies that are coming up, which on it, in fact, we have a lot of very interesting, like the tender show roads that are coming up. A lot of the smart city proposals that had been launched. It's been almost 34 years now. There have been launched are actually all pushing for white footpaths, walkable footpath 00:24:57 Speaker 2: so effectively, it's all there, 00:24:59 Speaker 2: the we need to shift our focus. 00:25:01 Speaker 2: And that focus has not just unfortunately yet 00:25:06 Speaker 1: to that an ice indefinitely. 00:25:08 Speaker 1: It's a combination of multiple factors that have led to the situation. We can't blindly put blame on 11 at one place or 21 state holder. It's not that the government is not trying to solve the problem. It definitely there could be more policy focus can like stronger. But the bend I, um, goal of improves urban mobility, difficult problem to solve, to begin with. 00:25:29 Speaker 1: And it requires reorganising of the wavy live a life right now and the way we'd prefer transport and the way the entire transport infrastructure is deaths. It does require sort of flexibility, a more focus, and it's a concerted efforts from all the stakeholders to address. So, 00:25:49 Speaker 1: like Dal, that is a cannot provide planning authority and they are doing some work. Suma is happing under dialled, so from the government side, a lot of initiatives are being planned and happening there, things like cycle days 00:26:02 Speaker 1: under Suma, part of the closely working with audibly ways, and you are trying to build more citizen engagement 00:26:10 Speaker 1: of there are things like government putting restrictions on traffic in the central business district. So there are initiatives coming in from different places, but I think we definitely need more of it. We need more consistent consistency in this a a combination of long term as well as sort of short term solutions which will go hand in hand with each other 00:26:30 Speaker 1: while that is there. But we also need to know is that strengthen both the government action as well as citizen participation It If I am an asset resident, 00:26:40 Speaker 1: I really have it in my hands as well to change the way my neighbourhood functions of how I commute. So I really need to 00:26:46 Speaker 1: start thinking from that lends. So as a citizen, we really need to be open to changing our lifestyles to resist, you know, like you know, even if your private vehicles how can be used more n empty and at the same time we need to be more active in pushing the government to do more public transport and non motorised transport. So 00:27:05 Speaker 1: these think you're right. There is one critical issues of money tend to several municipal and state indices involved in any project. 00:27:16 Speaker 1: There is always multiple agencies business help with turban on grand execution. I say it helps in certain base, but it also causes issues in on Gran execution to be sang like you know, the fragmented framework, you know, with different entities responsible for different facets of mobility's. In thus fours, a big talent for most issues. In many cases, departments 00:27:37 Speaker 1: don't have visibility of each other's work, and this requires a grain degree of coordination, specially when we're looking at inter modal way of transport and transit hubs 00:27:46 Speaker 1: and well, some of the things might be underway, but we often see there could be duplication of efforts are even conflicting efforts. Also a lot of places The municipal agencies sometimes do not have enough decision making powers or access to sufficient funds, and many to work more closely with the state agencies. So definitely it is a lot of overlap, which requires more coordinations, 00:28:06 Speaker 1: which will involve a longer time line based projects and conflicting priorities. 00:28:12 Speaker 1: So, for example, if you see in Delhi, the transport system in Spanish by four different agencies likely have Delhi metro rail corporations and we have Delhi transport cooperation, we have integrated multimodal transport systems and Indian. 00:28:25 Speaker 1: But overall improve coordination. Indignation will be possible if maybe there is a simple agency like something which is more unifying all the efforts because all of the agencies are working in their own remains as per their charters like you empty a unified Metropolitan Transport Authorities, which is managing the entire public transport system. 00:28:42 Speaker 1: And this has been recommended in the national urban transport policy as well. In Bangalore, India could potentially facilitate a system for coordination between, say, various departments like the B, M, R, C, l and B M P. C. So again, 00:28:56 Speaker 1: it's helpful. In some cases it does not. But I think of wider collaboration is definitely important and a way forward on these things. 00:29:04 Speaker 1: Absolutely. So let me talk to you about anybody. Civil topic money 00:29:09 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about the financing of urban transport projects in India, 00:29:16 Speaker 2: the financing of it right now financing funds in the form of either France from the national level. Central government grants that come. You have your state yearly lunch and then you have the city itself generating revenue, order property. 00:29:34 Speaker 2: When you look at so accessibility to finance, yes, every years, but it's a prepared 00:29:39 Speaker 2: road. 00:29:42 Speaker 2: There is money available and it's in fact cruise of rupees that comes in if a city is not able to bear that, especially or main electricity's like a Bangalore, Bombay Ledley, hubs of massive amount of the finance, though in your smaller towns in city it is highly lacking in terms of municipal finance. 00:29:59 Speaker 2: If that's not there and it's not enough, the state continues to put in money and first, some parts coming from the central. 00:30:06 Speaker 2: However, if you see there is sustainable urban transport there, large amounts of money at the moment are being channelled through this March city funds. 00:30:15 Speaker 2: There are total programmes coming under a few national level programmes like cycles to change, and states hold that sending long money to your state level nodal agencies to actually and for these projects, at least in a trial basis, a pizza money to do 00:30:32 Speaker 2: that put up full level infrastructure with this is money 00:30:35 Speaker 2: who start the ideation processes to start thinking. However, after that, the financing actually comes from 00:30:41 Speaker 2: the municipalities, so even the projects that we are doing right now under the same a grant that has been given by the agency here, which is the you lt 00:30:51 Speaker 2: the ideas that you try and test certain things, certain aspects and then you get there funded within the CD MP budget. That is the only budget that happens every year. So effectively finance is something that you need to. It's like a big pile so far have 1000 crores. I need to fight for that. 00:31:08 Speaker 2: How do I fight for that? If I show enough of evidence, if I show enough his support for that 00:31:12 Speaker 2: it comes down with the perspective, especially for sustainable mobility, comes under the perspective of neighbourhoods trying to reclaim 00:31:20 Speaker 2: seats for their own space, right? So if they go and put out enough of information and later saying that this can happen here is when you will be able to finance it. So a first it is not there for certain things like roads, highways, railways, Metro there is centralised finals, 00:31:37 Speaker 2: but for other aspects when he talked about sustainable mobility, 00:31:40 Speaker 2: this is pretty much worse face for us to clear finance, 00:31:47 Speaker 1: you mentioned the cycles for change have been asked to something around that subject. There's been central government focus on cycling and walking, for example, cycles for change in the streets for people challenge and all of that. 00:32:00 Speaker 1: How to see such initiatives within the concept context of accelerating the adoption of sustainable models within cities. 00:32:08 Speaker 2: I borrow from one of our one of our colleague as well. She's part of the single abandonment elective and chief stated that this is the best time to be an urban designer and 00:32:22 Speaker 2: and the reason being that these two 00:32:25 Speaker 2: programmes has suddenly opened out the imagination of public space in Indian cities, 00:32:32 Speaker 2: which has never happened before, and why I say the imagination is because we have not pushed the imagination at all in our cities. We pushed it with beautiful bridges, were pushed it with posted with railways and metro. But we love for shit with cycle lanes. 00:32:49 Speaker 2: We have not pushed it with beautiful foot parts. We have not pushed it with places where people can stop and 00:32:55 Speaker 2: you know, have certain activities or have spaces where, for instance, like a Parisian only street, that is instead of having starred, Road actually has favour of lots, right, so peace kinds of imaginations are happening now, and it is only because of the cycle. So Change, challenge and the streets official challenge that's really 00:33:15 Speaker 2: pushing 00:33:17 Speaker 2: No t agency have the state level and subsequently pushing the city level agencies across like it's not only Bangalore and other Metro's, but it is across your smaller cities, like my soul. And so I think there is amazing things to come, and it is 00:33:34 Speaker 2: very hopeful because you're building and professional capacity, all of ours, in this space right now. 00:33:40 Speaker 2: And I can't tell you how long we waited for an opportunity like this. 00:33:45 Speaker 2: Also is absolutely heartening to see so much of force from the central level that's coming in this direction. 00:33:52 Speaker 1: Speaker of Opportunity Soup money Tell us about Bengaluru moving. How was idea born, and how did he roll it off? 00:34:00 Speaker 1: I think as well. Recognise at Bangalore is one of the most congested cities in the world and definitely like in of estimates suggest traffic congestion costs. Bangalore, Bangalore. Iona's budget an extra hour for missing and five to go to the airport. Sometimes it takes me 45 minutes from the heart of the city, and sometimes it takes me 3.5 are 00:34:23 Speaker 1: wide range of mystic dropped 00:34:27 Speaker 1: definitely extra. An extra money also I dad so violent. Increasing number of people are moving into the city given the benefits of the city. But definitely initially when the city was planned, it was not built for this kind of. 00:34:41 Speaker 1: So the end result is you see there is increased commute times. You all have seen it while travelling back and forth from airport. This a lot of mental 30 and not to miss the loss of productivity. So in order to combat all of this and even further the goal of creating visible supes because I think that's a basic right that we all sort of 12 was words a lilac and based on for young leaders for active citizenship, the joy has with the Bangalore you moving campaign, the campaign is strategically being ruled out in phases by different organisations. Several organisations were working in it such as by lack and send 00:35:14 Speaker 1: in the first phase of campaign in 2020 of'em that popularising public transport. And also at that time there were conversations going around the priority bustling. So the idea of the camping was to get more attention there because something which is already the government is working towards and talking. It's easier to get attention, make people talk and 00:35:34 Speaker 1: ensure life all 00:35:35 Speaker 1: faster implementation of things. A while currently in the second phase, we're looking at increasing participation of women because they are important drivers in the economy and of mobility. Really, their perspective is very important. So how can a city be planned around them and their needs? 00:35:52 Speaker 1: The campaign used a range of creative tactics like, you know, street hours, music's polls, technology hackathon and 00:36:01 Speaker 1: young adults. You know, young leaders working towards feasting to bring in more voices on board, to tell you a little more about it. We had run the face one of Britain's of this 2020 and that's when they instituted a programme for mobility champions. 00:36:15 Speaker 1: So 12 young leaders were a part of it and they were passionate young residents from different parts of Bengal and they wanted to create a demand for better of transport and even built more support in their neighbourhoods and with the experts for most available mobility solutions. 00:36:31 Speaker 1: So that was one of the things we also launched. Happy thin to stab cities, talent pool and, you know, Envoy, the lot of the Belgian town of the city. So what can be done? Like what kind of APS can be made? What kind of index can be made which can help solve the bigger mobility, woes and issues of the city? So this one of some of the same be soiled, focused on 00:36:51 Speaker 1: right. So what is the current status of it and what comes next? So be a medium can go first this time intense of money. Next, 00:36:58 Speaker 2: So sensing will join in for the second phase of the campaign, though we had interacted with some of the mobility champions in the first, 00:37:06 Speaker 2: the way we have channel dressing. And this this time of the second case of the campaign actually spoke us to Lord Mu on Action on. 00:37:16 Speaker 2: And what we looked at, at least as sensing local is to an an effect by like as well is to align with direct is doing today are launching this sustainable of immobility, of which they have selected nine neighbourhoods to give them each of grant of around 50 lakhs to 00:37:34 Speaker 2: implement any link related to sustainable mobility. 00:37:37 Speaker 2: So this is literally a grant amount. You can try and do whatever you like in that amount to improve will make the case for sustainable mobility. Our neighbourhood and this is a Vanya Graham which is in a maze reset up. So we have attached ourselves to two neighbourhoods in Bangalore banas Malaysia and 00:37:56 Speaker 2: we are looking at doing three unique projects. One of it is around cycling in Dad, new candy, which is our neighbourhood network or cycle infrastructure and are not a cycle lanes but infrastructure, which means that there is not only cycle aid as a solution. 00:38:11 Speaker 2: The second is to look at walkability where they are reclaiming Conservancy lanes and 11 kilometres of footpath alongside that to actually make the neighbourhood walkable. And this is actually a 15 minute neighbourhood. It's usually you must be hearing a lot about the 15 Minutes city globally 00:38:28 Speaker 2: the Afghan and Bangalore. It's a 15 minute neighbourhood. Everything is accessible. Most people live and work in the area, but I am able to work. So this is, however, looking and walking. 00:38:39 Speaker 2: The third one is in on public transport. We're looking at improvising the information design around public transport so they're broken into three pieces, is broken into my first and last night. How do I get to the bus? 00:38:53 Speaker 2: Borders My information that require for that or get from my bus stop to once I got not to my destination 00:38:59 Speaker 2: to look at the bus stop itself, which is to see what kind of information is there at the bus stop regarding my bus. Sarah want to face timing of the bus? And regarding where do I get out? Within the bus 00:39:13 Speaker 2: Is my information, right? How do I know where to get off? You know what fertiliser of who do I asked if I am disabled and a blind person. And how do I entered his bus? And in fact, like one of very interesting things that we found out to this project is there is a subsidy for the blind 00:39:31 Speaker 2: as a bus pass in my hello. 00:39:33 Speaker 2: And in fact, they prefer taking the bus over Metro because at least they find someone to help them. 00:39:39 Speaker 2: And it is so sad that is, to lead someone to help him. And I think the focus of where we are right now. We have literally we're We're in a third month of the project and of campaign as well 00:39:52 Speaker 2: Are these really tried to capture user experience. We strike to capture opinions of people. So we really gone engagement heavy and we have hit almost, I think, more than 600 people that were engaged through our surveys. These, in fact, audited in Malaysia we have audited 00:40:13 Speaker 2: 11 kilometres of footpath Conservancy lanes with over 60 plus residents of Malaysia. Um, we have audited one A cycle through a handlebar surveys 40 kilometres of road land which is effectively going to be a proposed for the cycle network along with 30 yards cyclists numb 00:40:31 Speaker 2: a goat sam dot New Kundi I have devised 00:40:33 Speaker 2: So the whole status now moves towards captured everyone's opinions. Now the hard work is in reaching the design. So once captured everyone saying now is the negotiation stage to say they're okay now what needs to be done, right? So this is where the pressure builds up and it was easy to listen to people 00:40:50 Speaker 2: now to deliver to that is very are at with this champions. So we move towards 00:40:55 Speaker 2: the desire we move towards the piloting on grounds and we are be launching a lot of exhibition events that will help activate this pilot get more people to interact with what we will be implemented so that we cannot feedback captured through that 00:41:12 Speaker 1: so adding toward severe shared. So in the second phase of the probe down the campaign, they're focusing definitely more on the non motorised transport aspects, including walking, cycling and related infrastructure and also advocating for a gender sensitive policy approach towards transportation and connectivity. To serve this, we have inducted the sense of stained champions 15 mobility champions 00:41:34 Speaker 1: as the two month, part time engagement sort of programme. And these all are passionate young residents of Bengaluru coming from different backgrounds such as urban planning, designing, engineering and climate in the in the activism. And they're working on ongoing projects with sensing locals, team and mentorship. So they are working in the three different neighbourhood projects that Serbia just mentioned. 00:41:54 Speaker 1: In addition to the on ground work which is very, very like supplemental action driven 00:41:59 Speaker 1: and implementation heavy though of champions are also working on a research track wherein they are writing policy briefs now, This will help them gather useful literature and presented analysis on the themes of a participatory of voter noble planning, 00:42:14 Speaker 1: building effective gender sensitive interventions in M P and even Tactical Urbanism. Something where you know it's an organisation or a citizen led approach to neighbourhood 00:42:22 Speaker 1: buildings is a very short term. Luke Austin's available interventions. So idea is that once these three policy beats entities, 00:42:28 Speaker 1: these will abuse case scenarios. Case studies will be further disseminated to policymakers, urban planners and even civil society organisations that they can refer to give in. Bengaluru right now has an appetite bear with adults efforts you must afford the work sensing local is doing. People 00:42:45 Speaker 1: are really out there to work. So this will definitely add more to the knowledge pool of things like what has already happened was to take place. And what will be some of the learning that can be, you know, adopted elsewhere as well. So lastly, in this phase, we're also focusing on something interesting in Congress in new sort of products. We are all security ing and we're calling it audio guided heritage sites. The idea is to 00:43:08 Speaker 1: a leveraged the recent uptake of cycling in Bangalore with cycle days a nose has been a lot of talking about cycling. So be thought of weaken of these audio guided towards which people can download on and half and use it. And you're different parts of Bengaluru and 00:43:24 Speaker 1: servo that these interventions will really free citizen engagement and the willows incentivise people that you know. Why should I do more cycling in Bangalore, trying to bring in more innovation also to the already existing on wrong bomb? That's happening? 00:43:38 Speaker 1: That's important. But the company have another important question year. For what? About the government response. How is that been in? Maybe Sofia, Serbia? You Can I add to that one soup minister. 00:43:48 Speaker 1: So I think like a shade earlier mobility's of sort of of complex issue to work on and something that when we started working on it and realise, er, it's important to have, like government buying as well, a citizen engagement and an organisational expertise to it. 00:44:03 Speaker 1: And in our experience there was engaged with different government agencies during the previous and displace of the campaign, and they have been very 00:44:10 Speaker 1: the poor above the idea, like in face one be engaged with B M P C to develop a solution for an app and a vial. The development of it is still underway in this phase like, for instance, the projects that are under SUMA that has been driving. They're they're They're very keen to engage with youth, for more citizen participation and 00:44:29 Speaker 1: for audio rights part the audio guided heritage tools. We shared the idea with smart cities Bengaluru, and they have expressed how it fits really well into their mandate and are keen to offer support. So we do see there is a brain degree of support and against grating pension coming in our and as we're progressing on it, let's see how count kind of beating that ahead. 00:44:54 Speaker 2: I think just a few things that we have a new spoken our first doll face is Super Support Agency. I think we're lucky to have a commissioner that is leading it that early is passionate about moving the city in a different directions. However, we really tried and buy clothes. New thing has been the ward committees. 00:45:14 Speaker 2: So we have presented all these projects at the war committee citizen at the level of the world. And it has your beady MP municipality officials 00:45:22 Speaker 2: at the scale of this ward, along with, you know, some political representative, citizen, other representatives, So we have actually gotten very good response and in fact I think so. The fact of the late if I community and not led by as being, you know, 00:45:40 Speaker 2: typically outsiders to a neighbourhood. The community members have a superb grapple with government officials and in fact they launched how who work with there. So I think in both the neighbourhoods that were working in especially and also the other neighbours that have been selected under Suma, 00:45:55 Speaker 2: all of them have a very good rapport of working with government officials. So it's very easy to get in okay or to get them in bold. And we are currently moving into certain level of focus group discussions with into our design process. So yes, we are early eager towards We have introduced the projects and I think 00:46:13 Speaker 2: there is a lot of positive 00:46:17 Speaker 1: just just a just a listeners know that dulled is the Directorate of Urban Land Transport in Bangalore, and sumo has the sustainable mobility accord. 00:46:27 Speaker 1: So my final question to both of you guys is whatever so banner has you 00:46:32 Speaker 1: Bangalore has sensing local while I can all of that but one of the learning summit that other cities can apply And many Samir you can go first this time and then 00:46:44 Speaker 2: So you know this this thing of scale it's something that chases all of us as organisations, right, like you're forced to think about scale at every stage. And so our seats of scale from this is that we are working two words developing tool kits for these three unique projects 00:47:02 Speaker 2: which we believe can be available and rested, applicable across 00:47:06 Speaker 2: the scale the scale of the neighbourhood 00:47:09 Speaker 2: in any city, so it will give you will be almost like a guide that will tell you how to start identifying a plan, how to build community, how to start doing your audits and basic assessments of build data and to really build that evidence. 00:47:25 Speaker 2: However, then move it into a stage by you can start creating plans whether it means that you build a local collective of architects and designers and planners or the municipality actually provides support Chaudhuri building that capacity for design. 00:47:40 Speaker 2: In fact, even moving towards certain typical design interventions that are possible based on the situation and moving into, then activation and evaluation of that. So all of this is going to become a tool kit which can be replicated in any city. 00:47:56 Speaker 1: So adding to what so be a shared while this is still a lot of work in progress, but there are definitely a bunch of learning coming away. Some of them I can share our you know how 00:48:10 Speaker 1: engaging with the community through the system of residential associations are working with prominent community leaders, a counsellor mentioned. They are great to the polls, generally with the governments and likewise identifying 00:48:21 Speaker 1: and the kind of building upon these existing relationships is a good learning to take, because again, like these outsiders might not have that level of understanding or impact. 00:48:31 Speaker 1: And it's important to have that sort of a participatory approach. And the son of engagements will really go a long way in spreading awareness and locating provider of 00:48:41 Speaker 1: of whatever it has been, the focus areas, working by cycling or even infrastructural other. So having that community by 00:48:49 Speaker 1: is important, hence having this sort of a set up in different cities where there are active residential associations like in Delhi. We have great degree of residential welfare associations 00:49:00 Speaker 1: and prominent community leaders. That's important. Also, 00:49:04 Speaker 1: it's important for governmental agencies to pope the solution like if there is lack or no appetite 00:49:10 Speaker 1: to adopt, solution or work closely. 100 100 only citizen participation will not help. Citing that for over Bill needs to be there. That coupled with, like, what sob you mentioned about capacity buildings. Very, very important, like, you know, like how they're working on two kits. 00:49:24 Speaker 1: Likewise, there a day's like cycle days. Now this all helps is great formulation of action plans because you need to have the action time in hand in order to make that change, bring the entire community together. 00:49:35 Speaker 1: That action then, has to be more like a 00:49:39 Speaker 1: bottoms up approach at the top down one, citing that is another important thing to look at. Capacity building will really go a long way over that. 00:49:47 Speaker 1: And one more thing. I think practical interventions such as very short term interventions of 00:49:53 Speaker 1: which can be implemented in a timely fashion like having more cycle stands in the area. Improving public spaces can be implemented an easily replicated. So again, these can go in as like, you know, these are the few things that every neighbourhood can do or start looking at. Doing that does not require a lot of funding or does not require a lot of coordination and then also 00:50:13 Speaker 1: bending the relation, building on the relationships to take it or more higher level conversations. In addition to this, I think 00:50:19 Speaker 1: another thing that how we are thinking of scaling is using the policy briefs, because that really helps people get an insight of what's happening in my city. What, uh though 00:50:29 Speaker 1: some case studies which I can refer to what's happening in other parts of India and even globally. So I think these are some of the examples 00:50:37 Speaker 1: which other neighbourhoods other localities of the city's can also use and apply as we intend to scale a model like this 00:50:45 Speaker 1: where there is an equal in equal past our community engagement as well as work with the governmental agencies. 00:50:52 Speaker 1: So be in soup. Bonnie, Thanks so much for being on the show. And s mobility is no longer just a facilitator for commute of rate, but the very lifeline of the ass relation Modern Indian city. I think so. Thank you for detailing it for us. 00:51:05 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. A shock for having us on the show. I I think I just say that it's important to internalise mobility as an issue 00:51:15 Speaker 1: that's not only somebody else faces that we also face. So thinking of solution from that lance is also very, very important. All our contributors to the issues and we all can help towards solving this. Our campaign is going on right now. You can look at it by hashtag Bengaluru Moving 00:51:33 Speaker 1: joined share support Let other people know, try and replicate similar things in new neighbourhoods. 00:51:40 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having us. And I think 00:51:44 Speaker 2: the one she had like to reach everyone with is the tagline that sensing Nofal believes in. We invite you all to join us in co building cities of tomorrow today. 00:51:56 Speaker 2: Thank you.