Workday A.I. vs EEOC

[00:00:00] Hide your kids, lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast.

[00:00:05] Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts.

[00:00:11] Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark.

[00:00:15] Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheez Podcast.

[00:00:19] Awwww yeah, just two guys who love to stop, collaborate and listen.

[00:00:33] Hi kids, you are listening to the Chad and Cheez Podcast. I'm your co-host Joel Van Winkle Cheezeman.

[00:00:39] This is Chad. Who farted?

[00:00:41] Sowash.

[00:00:42] And on this episode, the EEOC Targets Workday. Non-competes take a hit and who's ready for Chicken Sundays?

[00:00:50] Yes!

[00:00:51] Let's do this.

[00:00:54] So it's funny though dude, guys falling asleep and farting in court.

[00:01:00] Oh Trump, okay.

[00:01:02] It's the best.

[00:01:03] I mean that's great. I mean what do you expect from an old man to do right?

[00:01:07] Dude's almost 80. Of course, wherever he sits, he's going to fall asleep and he's going to fart.

[00:01:12] It is what it is right?

[00:01:14] I'm wondering because he has that front butt, you know like the butt in the front.

[00:01:18] I wonder where the farts come out or there's like dual exits.

[00:01:22] Yeah, dual exits.

[00:01:24] He's so mad about the artist rendition of him which is funny.

[00:01:30] Like get off my lawn and stop drawing me that way.

[00:01:35] Would you draw me?

[00:01:36] Eurochad is clearly ready for takeoff.

[00:01:39] Oh yes.

[00:01:40] I appreciate it. You're in such a good mood. I love it.

[00:01:43] Big plans this week?

[00:01:44] Scottsdale helped.

[00:01:45] Scottsdale helped as well.

[00:01:47] Scottsdale helped yeah and we're prepping, we're going to be in Santa Fe next week.

[00:01:51] Taking a little vacay-ish action with some friends in Santa Fe before going to Unleash which we'll talk about later.

[00:01:59] But yeah, I am in total Eurochad mode because after Unleash we're hopping on the jet plane and going to Europe.

[00:02:08] All right, all right, all right.

[00:02:11] Well say a prayer for me. I'm doing a mini marathon this weekend.

[00:02:16] Oh yes, yes.

[00:02:17] I hope they had the paddles ready.

[00:02:21] Yeah, it was a tradition.

[00:02:25] So my dad was a marathoner, track coach and so he would do these marathons.

[00:02:31] As he got older he downgraded to mini marathons and my sister and I said let's do it with them.

[00:02:38] Let's start a family thing and we kind of hoped that our kids would slowly like start joining us.

[00:02:44] And my sister has four girls.

[00:02:47] Two of them have done it once and no more.

[00:02:50] Obviously Cole isn't doing it.

[00:02:53] Cole's not running unless someone's chasing him.

[00:02:55] Stella maybe at some point but so far this tradition may die with my sister and I.

[00:03:02] But I'll be in Louisville this weekend doing 13.1 mostly walking miles.

[00:03:08] Thank God there's a lot of bourbon in Louisville to help comfort my pain.

[00:03:13] That and some ibuprofen.

[00:03:17] Oh shit.

[00:03:18] All right let's get to.

[00:03:20] All right Chad.

[00:03:21] Yes.

[00:03:22] This one this one pains me but I got a shout out for the the VR haters out there.

[00:03:27] All the V.I. haters that are out there.

[00:03:30] So Apple came out with the Vision Pro one they have since apparently cut production from 800000 to 400 to 450000 units.

[00:03:41] Sony has halted production of their VR something with the PlayStation gaming stuff and even Metta says they're having a hard time keeping users engaged once they actually buy the damn thing.

[00:03:54] So unless Vision Pro turns around on their opinion that porn should not be on the Vision Pro I think it's a big shout out for the folks who hate.

[00:04:05] VR which I know you are one of them but so far the verdict on VR and headsets.

[00:04:11] You are really dumb.

[00:04:14] The reason being is because you're not with anybody but you know when you're with somebody and you're really experiencing VR you did it this weekend you went to fish at the sphere.

[00:04:24] The sphere is how you do virtual reality.

[00:04:27] Tell me I'm wrong.

[00:04:28] Tell me I'm wrong.

[00:04:29] The sphere is another animal.

[00:04:30] Now now how many of the people at a fish concert are really there with you.

[00:04:36] A lot of them were on another planet I'm pretty sure physically yes there was some hot messes at the sphere concert but yeah it was great.

[00:04:45] Look I'm not a big I'm not a big fish fan.

[00:04:48] Their live stuff is way better and if you throw in some substances and some the visuals that the sphere has.

[00:04:56] It's a pretty good time.

[00:04:57] It's a pretty good time.

[00:04:58] It's a pretty good time.

[00:04:59] Shout out to fish and now the sphere for sure.

[00:05:01] The new VR it just costs a lot more per ticket than it's the headsets.

[00:05:06] You get to do it with people and that's and that's what matters and that's what matters.

[00:05:10] Okay my shout outs not really a shout out it's the what the actual fuck moment of the week.

[00:05:15] So the following was reported on NOLA.com a Louisiana committee voted Thursday to repeal a law requiring employers to give child workers lunch breaks.

[00:05:28] I'll say that again child workers lunch breaks and to cut unemployment benefits part of a push by Republicans to remove constraints on employers and reduce aid for injured and unemployed workers.

[00:05:43] That's from NOLA.com first time state rep Roger Wilder who sponsored the child labor measure and owns get this smoothie King franchises across the deep south said he filed the bill in part because children want to work without having to take a lunch break.

[00:06:02] He questioned why Louisiana has the requirement while other states where he has smoothie King locations such as Mississippi don't have them.

[00:06:12] So what the fuck does it anyone notice this I feel like I'm taking crazy out of 50 states Louisiana is rated last dead last in a place where you want to live quality of life right.

[00:06:27] Worst well in health care there forty sixth education forty eighth economy forty seventh infrastructure forty seventh opportunity forty eighth crime and correction fiftieth Louisiana is rated the worst state in the union to live in.

[00:06:44] Followed by guess guess what other state that's what state Mississippi Alabama Mississippi.

[00:06:52] So this has been your Chad and cheese what the actual fuck moment of the week the football is amazing and the etouffee is to die for I'll tell you that Chad all right well my last shout out.

[00:07:04] Get anything to talk user might have been kind of a bummer this week Congress voted to give some money to Ukraine yeah but that wasn't the lead story it was tick tock being quote unquote banned many listeners know you had a bet with Jim the indeed whisperer Durbin.

[00:07:24] Did you ever come did he ever honor that bet that did you ever get it okay oh yeah I know we did he sent me eagle rare he actually he messaged me and he's like what's Chad's favorite.

[00:07:36] And she's like no no no what's your favorite and she's like oh eagle rare so yeah she pretty much got a bottle of her.

[00:07:43] She said yours and it was like oh that's expensive what's your favorite then you go rare if you can get it which is not cheap yeah so if he had if he had just a few more months he might have been able to at least argue that that was happening now.

[00:07:58] It's probably not an all out band still have a lot of interesting your your comments on this your opinion on this so they have to divest it they have to sell it to an American firm or outright ban what's your prediction on what happens.

[00:08:12] Yeah it won't get banned I mean there's too much money there way too much money China doesn't want to give up that kind of cash because there's a huge pond of you know ocean of cash here in the US so they don't want to do that and not to mention Trump had talked about doing this before the whole divestiture thing so they they've been thinking about it for a while I would say that they saw this coming you know so they're gonna they're gonna slow roll it there's no question they're gonna play it smart slow roll it but they'll they'll find a company to buy into it there's no question now do you think.

[00:08:42] That China will release the algorithm is not coming with the deal do you think and if not is tick tock going to be the same tick tock without the algorithm yeah I don't I don't know I don't know how they actually do that on separate instances they could respectively do updates which what it does is just.

[00:09:00] Updates the algorithm in a different instance which is what we've seen with the applicant tracking systems and HCM systems and so on and so forth over the years so whenever you do a version update they could prospectively do an algorithm update I don't know we'll see but that will be part of the deal to understand.

[00:09:16] The algorithm itself impact and then obviously the data that that's in the US that will not leave to go to China because it'll be under I'm sure a separate holding company I'm gonna go kind of kind of rogue on this one I think I think there's a good chance no one's talking about it I think there's a decent chance China says fuck off and they kill it I do think that's an option I think China doesn't give a shit it's an option what's the percentage they put Jack on that and some you know work worker reeducation camp.

[00:09:46] I don't think China gives a shit they might just say fuck it it's gone then have fun with that American government with your kids they're already protesting on college campuses everywhere we win I mean they that's the last thing they want right I mean they can still get cash let's say for instance what.

[00:10:01] How the deal might be structured I'm not sure we're both talking out of our asses right now but it is interesting there's no question.

[00:10:07] Band in America band in America but what's not and Chad and never will be banned is free shit on Chad and cheese that's right tell us about that t-shirts by Aaron Apple this very nice that's right t-shirts free t-shirts kids beer by Aspen Tech Labs love those kids were talking craft beer at your front doorstep that's right ups flat X whoever sends that stuff going to be at your front door along with the prospect

[00:10:37] of whiskey from our friends at Tex Colonel get two bottles from one from Chad one from cheese and if it's your birthday it's wrong from but you gotta go to Chad cheese.com slash free to register to win I know I can I can feel all the way down in my lungs that's right Chad some listeners celebrating another

[00:10:57] trip around the sun is Jonathan Zilla Duarte Mendonca Daniel Kazinski Matt Lazar Gia Johnston Chris Brevik Michael Simon Cowell Steve Gilbert Charlotte Marshall and Lars Schmidt all celebrating another birthday thanks for listening and enjoy one on us so Lars is that like NBA headquarters or some shit like that doing like a photo shoot or something I don't know.

[00:11:26] That dude is like quietly the coolest cat in our industry he's got skateboards on the wall I love it man he's like laid back but he's sort of DC hypercharged I love it I love it Lars and Lars not enough Lars in the world either everybody needs a little bit more Lars well maybe I don't know he might actually show up where in Scotland that's right we're going to Scotland we'll talk about unleashing in a minute okay but this is new on May 21st we're going to be at the

[00:11:56] revolution de Cuba that's right in Glasgow where we're going to we're gonna be jumping around all day with startups with practitioners are going to be doing interviews all that other fun stuff but we're going to do a meetup at revolution de Cuba in Glasgow notice how I love saying that not to mention on May that's May 21st to May 23rd we're going to the three sisters bar in Edinburgh apparently

[00:12:26] people were killed in the dungeon of this place I mean that's probably everywhere in Scotland but three sisters bar in Edinburgh that's on the 23rd you can register for one or both events at true Scotland calm thanks for all of the sponsors for all of the help and all of the support we've got Daxter got Ashby solutions driven gigged.ai willow poetry and we actually have some Daxter news

[00:12:56] coming here soon but appreciate all of the help and all of the fun I mean other than whiskey this is both our first times in Scotland oh I'm super excited bring in the wife I know you are too I think we're gonna go on some sort of secret tasting expedition with our friend Stephen McGrath who knows where the hell that's going to end up so doing that never been to Scotland I'm going to soak it all in I'm shopping for kilts yes I'm looking for haggis

[00:13:26] at my local Kroger they don't have it so I don't know where I'm going to get some so Scotch eggs are on the menu if I can't get some get some haggis yeah totally excited you know I love a good Scotch heat me up baby smoke it up I'm excited for sure yeah love me some Scotland we're excited about that go to truescotland.com again two events Glasgow and Edinburgh then well even before we get to Scotland hope you guys are excited about that

[00:13:56] hopefully we make it to Scotland we've got this coming

[00:13:59] tell the listeners what they missed if they're not watching us on YouTube right now yes well yeah if you're not listening you missed Super Dave jumping off the top of the stratosphere which we're going to be doing with Matt Bauer CEO of Out Hire it's over 800 feet that we're going to be dropping we're going to be falling in Super Dave style at least you're going to be doing Super Dave style but listener listener listener you can jump with us

[00:14:26] or you can nominate a friend or enemy depending on what you like I just go to Chadcheese.com and click on the jump with us button right there in the header thanks to the high flying staff over at Out Hire we appreciate you guys making this happen it's going to be a blast Joel can't wait he's excited look at him look at his face

[00:14:47] wearing the Out Hire t-shirt this week wearing the Out Hire depends on jump day if you will everybody everybody buys stock in depends that's for sure yeah you ready for topics yeah well no no we got to go to the minus five bar that's Omar's ice castle at the minus five bar with Diane and Jane from Great People and Omar from JobPixel go ahead and if you check us out on the socials mainly probably on LinkedIn and Twitter and Twitter.com and we'll see you there.

[00:15:17] If you haven't connected with us go ahead and do that take a look at our stream we actually have where you can register that's right to come have some beers with us at the ice castle then we're going to do the neon lights with Plum on the night of May 8th come and bask in the glow of the neon boneyard with our friends from Plum during neon nights kind of like boogie nights but without the skates

[00:15:42] just go to ChadCheese.com slash events click on the join wait list button and cross your fingers kids hope you get on the wait list we hope that we see you there

[00:15:53] I have a funny story about the neon graveyard so I get a text I don't know if you got a text Cheeseman it's Michelle from Plum I need your music mind the music at neon nights is designed to resonate with the generation attending think best dance party you attended in the 90s and early 2000s stuff you want to sing along and tap your toe to even if you're not a dancer like my friend Jason Putnam.

[00:16:18] So I have been burdened with the task of going back to that 90s and the 2000s for the songs that really hit me hit me in the happy feet to recommend a soundtrack for the party so she's doing that because she wants you to dance because I'm old this is yours this is yours so that you have to dance to this one yeah yeah I have

[00:16:42] I have the pictures of a 22 year old saying hey we need some music we have some old people this thing like who should we ask about music and they come to me which I thought was pretty flattering yet a little bit insulting at the same time what are you going to do about it maybe talk about?

[00:16:56] Alright hot off the presses everybody. News break UK based Daxstra has acquired Indianapolis based pivot CX.

[00:17:10] Daxstra says it's a specialist in high accuracy multilingual job and resume parsing semantic search matching and recruitment automation while pivot touts itself as an all-in-one talent acquisition communications hub the acquisition aims to provide a better candidate and recruiter experience.

[00:17:30] Founded in 2002 Daxstra employees 114 while pivot founded in 2015 employees less than 10 Chad your thoughts on the acquisition.

[00:17:41] Yeah pivot was work here dot com remember that oh it's a long strange trip that they've been on yes geo fenced kind of thing that I mean you know it was kind of weird kind of kind of cool at the same time but they pivot out of that changed leadership and got pivot CX.

[00:17:59] Our favorite Stephen Seagal you know from the HR industry actually works there David Bernstein and it's interesting because we're in and around Indianapolis and they're from Scotland oh what's happening we just talked about Scotland eerie eerie.

[00:18:17] This this reminds me of of text kernels acquisition when they they bought the the the actual job bot or I can't remember the name of it job well it was a Chad dot yeah it was it was an engagement engine right.

[00:18:29] Daxstra ability to find the most qualified candidates through parsing and matching technology adding that to pivots ability to quickly engage in increase candidate conversion rates then what did Terry do before he did this.

[00:18:42] Pando program at all this like kind of like comes together so whether they do an acquisition of some type of programmatic tech or they closely partner so you mentioned work here I think just for the annals of history I think it's interesting to note what work here's model was it was like Yelp ish stickers on a business so you go to like maybe the Applebee's down the street you put a work here sticker and then you have to download an app.

[00:19:12] Remember when companies asked you to download their app and you would actually do it so you did that and then you would see jobs based on your in this location or you think you downloaded through a QR code or whatever and then that didn't quite work out companies in what stickers on their doors they didn't want like all the questions that probably came with like oh you work here you got jobs like yeah you got downloads the list that thing like why why why just give me just tell me what's funny way.

[00:19:41] So then it became kind of an interesting like they would go to Starbucks for example I don't know if they went to Starbucks but everyone knows Starbucks and they would say okay Starbucks you need people at this location on 116th and Simmons or something and then they would they would like geo target advertising with Facebook and like we just want this certain area to get advertisements for this Starbucks for jobs job fair whatever and that was pretty cool but doesn't scale very well.

[00:20:11] Right like okay how many locations do you have how much advertising what is the job for over you got to cancel it so that was like kind of a pain in the ass I think they went through some some shuffling of leadership at one point and then came out with pivot CX.io I can't believe the pivot CX.com wasn't available but anyway it wasn't and there's like we're just going to do messaging the engagement shit and along comes Daxter who does I don't know

[00:20:41] matching resume parsing etc. Now you need a way to communicate with these folks Terry Baker we know Mike Seidel who we know Howard Bates is there as well there's an interesting cast of characters makes total sense that well I can search the resumes and find the people but now how do I contact them.

[00:20:59] Well here's snap of a button I can message them call them they have video options as well so it's a it's a perfect kind of marriage and my guess is pivot took very little money at all so I think it was a really cheap acquisition and Terry with the Wade Wendy thing I think you understood the importance of the communication element not just finding the job or the candidate.

[00:21:21] So so I think it was like you said Stephen Seagal everyone knows I'm sure Terry was like making the calls and seeing who was available kicking the tires and pivot was more than willing to have a conversation about yeah how do we how do we get this thing done and get this marriage completed my guess is that the pivot brand will go away.

[00:21:43] So all will will be a sales guy for Daxter in the near future I don't know Howard I imagine will be there for a year to kind of transfer everything over I don't see him sitting around I see that I think Mike will stick around Seidel I think he'll he'll be there for the ride hopefully local company maybe hopefully they jack up some money and hire some people here in the Hoosier state.

[00:22:07] And put some money in the local economy that would be nice and yeah it makes sense I hope it works out.

[00:22:14] I just connected some dots right out of the gate because I just remembered a press release that came out I think it was last week or earlier this week first and foremost I don't Howard was I think was the money guy so I don't see him he's going to take his payday and get the fuck out they were just talking about a programmatic player they partnered with acquire ROI.

[00:22:34] Earlier this week or last week and that's a that's a new programmatic player in the space actually a new sponsor Chad and cheese.

[00:22:42] So now, if you think about it you've got you've got this engine right that is a search and match engine that can go against your database or other databases.

[00:22:52] To be able to actually target individuals who are qualified for the job and then use pivot CX to start the engagement right so that's like the internal passive.

[00:23:03] Then you go after the active how do you do that with programmatic well you've got acquire ROI who are the new kids on the block.

[00:23:09] They want to start making some fucking waves this is a great way to make some waves right be a part of a much larger ecosystem, so this is I think good all the way around again we saw.

[00:23:21] Text kernel do something similar to this over in Europe watching Daxter do that with pivot CX and then also with acquire ROI from a engagement and then also a programmatic standpoint, I mean this makes a hell of a lot more sense now.

[00:23:37] Yep the only pieces missing are a QR code generator and an ATS 60% of the time it works every time that's why we talk about zipper.

[00:23:47] That's right all right we got we got a I'm calling this the red meat block our listeners love this shit so we're gonna throw it out of throwing the meat in the cage everybody all right zip recruiter CFO.

[00:23:58] Tim Yarbrough has sold what investing.com calls a quote significant amount of company stock in quote to the tune of over $60,000.

[00:24:07] Meanwhile tech crunch has discovered and verified that linkedin is developing a new subscription service called linkedin premium company page.

[00:24:16] That's a mouthful priced at potentially up to $99 a month this service would provide AI driven content creation and advanced tools to increase follower numbers but wait Chad.

[00:24:28] There's more workday faces allegations of a biased AI based application screening system.

[00:24:34] Our friends at the EOC argue workday should be held accountable as an intermediary workday shocker denies the allegations zipper recruiter linkedin and workday how's that for red meat everybody Chad your thoughts.

[00:24:49] Yeah I mean we talked a lot about the recruiter last week where I was calling for in Ted I hate to say it but this is a brand in decline I guess I don't have to say it everybody can see it.

[00:25:01] And it's in serious need of new leadership and swagger zip recruiter is giving zombie vibes at this moment on the on the linkedin side of the house let me repeat this from the from the whole.

[00:25:15] Article that was out this new linkedin service would provide AI driven content creation and advanced tools to increase follower numbers.

[00:25:24] Among other benefits to elevate a company's visibility two things number one this is exactly what we do not fucking need from AI spam a spam creation machine no number two.

[00:25:37] Fix the old dilapidated shit in your current system your basic matching to the profile data that we have is horrible you should be amazing at that you suck at that fix the shit that's not working.

[00:25:53] They're throwing a lot of spaghetti at the wall which I normally love but the problem is the shit that should be working the base stuff.

[00:26:00] Isn't even working so why am I why do I think that this has any longevity to whatsoever why should you unless you I'll let you go on that one then we'll start talking about workday because we got to dig in on that one.

[00:26:11] We'll get to workday because I know you got some inside info from our friends at the EOC so the zip recruiter thing I thought it was pretty funny that investing.com called it a you know quote significant amount of company stock.

[00:26:24] I mean it wasn't a huge amount of stock 60 grand I don't know maybe the dude's kid got into Dartmouth and needed a down payment or maybe the tax man had some money he still family trust he still owns 180,000 plus shares.

[00:26:39] Around up 1.8 million dollars i'm sure he'd love for it to be more but unfortunately.

[00:26:44] Zipper could her stock is going sideways in a bad way the other part of the other side of that to me is like why cash it in when you can get a loan against it and then you don't pay taxes on it.

[00:26:56] So do you think ultimately he thinks well it's not going up so get rid of it now before it goes down to eight dollars seven dollars six dollars a share.

[00:27:07] I don't make investment advice on the show but the stock isn't going in the right direction so cashing out on a little bit of it.

[00:27:13] Make sense in course we talked about last week how the CEO had sold a big chunk of stock back in December so it's a trend worth watching if Ian dumps a bunch of shares and maybe some maybe this you know some other executives do it could be interesting but yeah not a company on the rise.

[00:27:29] Terms of linkedin i'm not as mad about it as you are i ain't mad at him look you and I talked to a lot of startups we advise a lot of startups.

[00:27:38] And these startups are like have social media profiles everywhere that just have these dead lifeless social media accounts my recommendations always like until you get like dedicated resources pick one and that one in our space is almost always linkedin.

[00:27:55] So focus on that if they could if they could manage better content being created that's relevant don't spam people I agree like there's a line there and people have to follow these companies and they can unfollow them as well if they if they blow them up with spam.

[00:28:15] But now companies are looking for a way to like keep these social media channel or channels up and running and if linkedin can plug in like oh hey here's the best time to post here's the best kind of content to post here's what's getting the most engagement like that could be a really good thing.

[00:28:31] For companies especially startups it's also it's also a warning letter to marketing people that don't don't keep their social media company sites like active get your shit together ai is coming for your job so you better start thinking outside the box and being creative with the content that you're putting on social media.

[00:28:51] Otherwise your boss is gonna go gee there's a an ai that's 99 dollars a month that can do what you're doing so sign.

[00:28:59] How much do you cost me so sign our baby yeah sign our so it's a it's a it's a little bit of a warning to marketing people again it's back to ai won't take your job but people who do know ai will so leverage this new service the best you can with what you're currently doing but marketing people need to up their game.

[00:29:16] If their social media sites and most of them do have shitty sucky voodoo zombie ask social media sites they gotta get on that yeah here's the thing it was funny i was talking to a tea practitioner today and she was talking about how much spam she gets in her in mail oh it's gonna get worse kids.

[00:29:34] So to the workday side of house last week we had a chance to spend some time with eo c commissioner sonderling and let me tell you after working with government for decades he's a breath of fresh air yes because he's practical and he understands business this case.

[00:29:52] Is none of that it's not practical or even in the line of basic understanding of what a system like workday currently does for tens of thousands of companies now i say currently because the velocity of tech is moving at work warp speed.

[00:30:07] And from my understanding the eo c is trying to like in workday and it's technology to a staffing agency why a staffing agency performs hiring decisions for its clients and if workday or any other technology provider.

[00:30:24] Did the same type of service for its clients as an embedded part of the platform that it could be seen in the same vein right so i believe this case it's going to be dismissed because the laws currently on the books specifically point to the employer.

[00:30:42] Having responsibility in a case like this not the actual vendor but it does feel like foreshadowing knowing proposed legislation in states like california have pulled the vendor into the accountability spotlight already and knowing tech companies are already gearing up.

[00:31:01] To help in the decision making process so this is a conversation we will be having regularly in the near future but not about workday not this time and not about workday you know but i really feel like this is literally a shot across across vendors bow so they need to start thinking about this now.

[00:31:22] That escalated quickly.

[00:31:24] Yeah i didn't know what to make of this because it did sound odd it sounds like a loser i don't think any person that knows is in the know thinks of workday as a staffing element or firm to me it was to me it felt a lot like the eo c has done very little and in regards to convictions of ai.

[00:31:47] It's just hard it's a black box we talk about it with with keith and others a lot proving bias with ai is really challenging and ai is all over the news i think there you know my initial reaction was i bet there's a lot of pressure on the eo c.

[00:32:04] To do some shit about all this ai stuff that's freaking people out what better company bigger company to go after than a workday.

[00:32:14] Even though they know it's probably a loser it's a great headline and the headline does at least say oh eat the eo c is going after someone like workday to like you know get under the get under the hood and figure out what's going on so it makes for a good headline which i think relieves some pressure off the eo c.

[00:32:30] I do think that it is going to wake employers up a lot of ceos are going to hr and saying hey they're going after workday are we dotting our eyes and crossing our t's to make sure that we're not doing anything bad like and by the way we're we're using workday.

[00:32:47] Are we in trouble so i yeah part of me thinks it's a pr play and part of me thinks it is a like hey we can we can get you if you fuck around you're going to find out and we're going to like.

[00:32:59] Be in the headlines going after big company to make sure that you guys are well aware that we can come after you but it feels like a total loser.

[00:33:06] Like it may not even like dismissed you said i don't know if that's keith's words are yours but i don't think it goes very far at all it's just a good headline.

[00:33:16] I think the smarter companies and again we were in sconsale last week with paradox and they were they were very very clear our tech does not make decisions it's process efficiency it does a lot of things but it does not make decisions.

[00:33:31] It helps the process in the human makes the decisions now you get a company like hired score right that could prospectively be making decisions right and again if you start taking a look at just the framework of what a staffing company does they make decisions on the types of individuals who are going to be put into your organization.

[00:33:50] A technology could prospectively do the same and we've been talking about some companies being the operating system for staffing companies to be able to really rev this up so this is going to be a conversation that's going to be carried forward I think it is a legit conversation.

[00:34:05] Maybe in about 18 months but not with workday right now no way do you think the hired score acquisition put them in the cross hairs of the EEOC now.

[00:34:17] Now this is happening way before that happened I think what will be awesome about this is Athena and her team are geared for defensibility and explainability so they're going to be ready for something like this.

[00:34:31] I don't see again I don't see workday being a problem because they have the right people in place.

[00:34:40] Power to the people.

[00:34:42] All right Chad all right Chad big news this week on non competes the federal government is not a fan apparently of them that's right the Federal Trade Commission issued a rule banning non competes nationwide saying the change would protect the fundamental freedom of workers to change jobs while increasing innovation and fostering new business formation.

[00:35:06] Chad I'm guessing you're a fan but what are your thoughts.

[00:35:09] You've probably had a non compete before I've had a non compete before you know we're in industries where it's really hard to stay in the industry if you've had a non compete.

[00:35:18] Especially the types of positions we've been in you know digging into this one in five US workers are bound by contract clauses that prevent them from taking new jobs from a competitor.

[00:35:30] So the US Federal Trade Commission on Tuesday issued a final rule that bans most non competes nationwide.

[00:35:38] The agency estimated by allowing people more freedom the change would lead to the creation of 8500 new businesses annually lower health care costs and as many as 29,000 more patents each year over the next decade.

[00:35:58] Okay by allowing more freedom thing is company protections have been weighing high over employee protections.

[00:36:08] We're starting to see a shift in that and this is one of those shifts really a redistribution in power.

[00:36:14] Yes I have signed a non compete and yes I have been sent letters to say like watch yourself.

[00:36:23] I'm a crazy man Chad I'm crazy I need to be reigned in sometimes.

[00:36:29] Typically what happens in my experience and anecdotally is you get a new job you're super excited and they go oh here's this thing you need to sign.

[00:36:41] Oh it just says you won't you know compete go to a competitor da da da and most people like yeah I love this place I'm not going anywhere this is fantastic yeah I'm making how much money oh yeah okay let's do that.

[00:36:52] And then and then you want to leave but then you think oh should I sign that thing that restricts me from doing it now.

[00:36:59] How many people and you're trapped how many people stay at the job because they can't leave or don't think they can leave I don't know we'll never know those numbers.

[00:37:09] How many companies actually follow through on the threats of the non compete agreement probably very very few.

[00:37:17] It just creates a mess it creates the company just hired you there's an uncomfort discomfort in that oh that we hired someone there's this agreement do we fight it like what happens.

[00:37:28] It should it should not be a thing really I mean there's a non compete and a non disclosure are different things and I like yes so the agreement of you shouldn't go work for a competitor versus you can go work for the competitor.

[00:37:42] But the minute we find out you're giving trade secrets or your hiring people away from us those are you know those are different things but you shouldn't restrict this America Jack you shouldn't you shouldn't you shouldn't restrict where people can go to.

[00:37:57] This is un-American anti freedom.

[00:37:59] If you think about this is off the table it will create a really interesting dynamic with people leaving companies starting companies that's another one too is like I'd love to start a competitor but I can't because I sign this non compete thing.

[00:38:10] Competition is good for business that's going to be positive more people are hired out of startups than more established companies so it's a good thing now what I what I told you on our ATAB conversation is sort of my knee jerk reaction I think it's true.

[00:38:25] Chamber of Commerce is going to fight this tooth and nail it's going to go to it's going to go to a higher court more than likely.

[00:38:32] The Supreme Court is a right leaning court is it more business friendly you could argue yes in that case where does that where does the decision go but I think most Americans think yes you should be able to go wherever you want.

[00:38:47] You can't tell secrets you can't like do certain things but you shouldn't be restricted to oh you can't get a job in the restaurant industry because you worked at a restaurant like that's just kind of silly in my mind so I hope it passes it's in for a long legal fight.

[00:39:02] But I think the the you know the just the the arc of justice will bend in the right direction when when all is said and done on this one.

[00:39:11] Well I mean the working class has been negatively impacted by this employee treatment why treat employees well you don't have to if they feel like they're trapped right obviously from a productivity standpoint but companies really haven't focused on productivity.

[00:39:25] It's suppressed rate wages it makes it easier for you not to get paid more and I've mentioned this several times and I'll mention it again CEO pay has soared.

[00:39:36] It has gone 1200% higher since 1978 to today versus typical workers rates of 15.3% right there are all these different things that are in place that it are allowing those things to happen because workers feel like they're trapped if they don't feel like they're trapped anymore a lot of things can happen higher innovation rates.

[00:40:01] Better pay and not to mention we're in a space right now in America where there's this huge division and it's like we're not a society that's that's a community anymore.

[00:40:14] That's because there are a lot of people that are in poverty if we can help them go maybe start their own company maybe go to another company maybe get paid more etc etc people become more happy that way when they feel like they're free and today if you like the trapped.

[00:40:29] And CEOs you mentioned they're actually more likely to go against their non-compete because they can afford to fight it and typically the company that hires a new CEO will say yes we'll back you on your non-compete and fighting it whereas the average line manager doesn't have that option.

[00:40:45] They're just kind of trapped and they certainly shouldn't be well non-competes to hell with them.

[00:40:51] In other news the US Department of Labor raised the salary threshold for overtime eligibility for salaried workers affecting millions.

[00:41:00] The threshold will increase to $43,888 in July and $58,656 in 2025 employers and trade associations expressed concerns about increased cost and potential job losses Chad your thoughts on raising the salary threshold for overtime salaries.

[00:41:21] This is another one of the mechanisms that were used to keep wages low CEO wages to the moon 1200% you know and then we're bumping around like 15.3% so yes moving positions to salary was one of the quick and easy cheat codes to fucking their employees give them a bigger title.

[00:41:41] A salary slight increases over their hourly wages and then make them work 6080 hours a week without the overtime so acting Labor Secretary Julie Sue said in a statement quote too often lower paid salary workers are doing the same job as the hour their hourly counterparts but they are spending more time away from their families for no additional pay end quote.

[00:42:06] Again we're on this big blue ball one time kids got to spend it with the people that we love not saying that we don't like people at work but we've got things to do go get your your your feet in the sand go enjoy time with your family and doing this and not getting the pay the salary pay.

[00:42:25] This is about happiness and these types of moves are going to make people more happy.

[00:42:31] I know I for one can't stand my coworker but that's a different podcast altogether.

[00:42:36] You're right look you're not with me 40 hours a week that's for damn sure thank God for that employers are always looking for ways to skirt the rules stick it to the man if you will stick it to the little guy and this is a way to do it like we'll put we don't want to pay you more as an hourly will make you a salary employee and all the benefits that come with being a salary to me.

[00:42:58] Oh you got to work late again but you're not an hourly employee so your salary doesn't move.

[00:43:04] It's it's it's sort of a dirty game I'm not saying all employees all employers do that according to this release about 4 million workers are impacted by this new law positively.

[00:43:16] What I think is interesting is that they're they're saying that the income transfer from employer to employee is going to be to the tune of about one and a half billion dollars a year and you and I both know that historically if money goes in the hands of working people it goes right back into the economy in the form of services and goods.

[00:43:38] If it sticks in this in the in the realm of the employer it gets you know it gets it gets hidden away in savings whatever so to me I think this could be a really interesting injection of activity in the economy where this money goes right back into goods and services.

[00:43:56] So I think that's something that a lot of people aren't thinking about when we're giving money back to the working class so good for the economy good for those folks and probably not all that bad for the employers by the way.

[00:44:09] Well in more news in the power to the people block chat and a historic victory for the UAW nearly three quarters of Volkswagen workers in Chattanooga Tennessee voted to unionize marking the first successful auto factory unions unionization in the south since the 1940s.

[00:44:28] This win caps off a strong year for the US labor market which has seen increased support and organizing victories across various industries the UAW aims to use this momentum to continue its organizing effort into the south including at Mercedes Benz facilities in Alabama.

[00:44:46] Chad your thoughts. Yeah, Shane Sean Fain has a message. He's actually speaking directly to the laborers and he's winning.

[00:44:55] We just talked about the again CEO pay. That's what he's talking about. He's talked about specifically CEO pay. Why are they getting these huge raises and you guys are getting fucked and you're getting in your paying and you're working harder for the same pay right.

[00:45:10] So I mean this is all about fairness plus what I thought was interesting.

[00:45:15] Biden jumped on the train very quickly and he chimed in and said quote let me be clear to the Republican governors that tried to undermine this vote. There is nothing to fear from American workers using their own voice and their legal right to form a union if they so choose end quote.

[00:45:34] On the back of that win for unions Biden also won the endorsement of the North America building trade union association.

[00:45:44] So after decades of employees getting fucked over CEO pay skyrocketing while American workers accept poverty wages trapped in jobs with non competes forced to work overtime without getting paid for overtime.

[00:45:59] It feels like the American worker is finally are we getting our time is the time happening Joel.

[00:46:05] We're getting our time and as one of our guests said it's a five year holiday from the robots taking over everything which may or may not be true I guess.

[00:46:18] I guess we'll find out at some point. Yeah look I was shocked you know I was shocked when Detroit succumbed to when the UAW won in Detroit I was shocked and frankly that it's heading south.

[00:46:32] I'm not as shocked like it was a big win winning is contagious and more and more workers are seeing what's happening in Detroit and they want that they want a little piece of that in the south and the west and then even in Texas they want a little bit of that.

[00:46:46] And Elon Musk I'm sure is scared to death. I don't know if you saw what Tesla Tesla's up to but things will challenge that Tesla so the last thing Elon wants is union uprising but this is the world we live in and this is a trend that's going to keep going and going and car companies and everyone needs to think about it and look even you mentioned some other news outside of that like we shared a story about Samsung and the six day work week at Samsung for.

[00:47:16] Thought thought jobs or knowledge based jobs you look at Google rolling back requirements the US suppliers and staffing firms pay their employees at least fifteen dollars an hour in a move to avoid bargaining with unions so even companies that we don't necessarily think of as union caring are now suddenly thinking about the unions and Samsung like six days a week why I don't know in Europe you got they're given robots days off for God sakes like like you know.

[00:47:46] Let's make the humans work more we're going to give robots some time off so it's a trend you got it you got a root for I think no matter where you are politically like people that have been sucking it for a long time or finally getting their do and I think it's a good thing.

[00:48:00] Amen.

[00:48:01] We'll be right back.

[00:48:04] Can I get a little fast food news for my final final block.

[00:48:08] I think you're going to get it and I think you're going to get it yeah yeah.

[00:48:10] Chick-fil-a employee at Mary the siren was told by the chains PR team to stop posting tip talk reviews she then partnered with Shake Shack with her first post getting over eight hundred and sixty five thousand views the partnership coincided with Shake Shack's chicken Sundays campaign in case you missed it.

[00:48:31] Wow.

[00:48:32] I mean Jesus chicken be damned what idiots and this isn't this isn't a new story at all for all of you Chad and cheese veteran listeners you will remember our lightning in a paint can episode back in 2020 where we talked to Tony Pilsino a former

[00:48:37] Sherwin-Williams employee and tick tock superstar who was fired by Shake Shack for the first time.

[00:48:43] your thoughts on this chicken battle.

[00:48:45] I mean, Jesus chicken be damned.

[00:48:48] What idiots.

[00:48:49] And this isn't a new story at all

[00:48:52] for all of you, Chad and she's veteran listeners.

[00:48:55] You will remember our lightning in a paint can episode

[00:48:58] back in 2020 where we talked to Tony Pilsino,

[00:49:02] a former Sherwin Williams employee

[00:49:04] and TikTok superstar who was fired from Sherwin Williams

[00:49:09] for posting paint mixing videos.

[00:49:11] People were loving watching the Sherwin Williams paint

[00:49:14] and it got fired.

[00:49:15] So I'm sure Sherwin Williams,

[00:49:17] they couldn't even spell TikTok back in 2020

[00:49:20] but four years later, everyone knows TikTok

[00:49:24] and you have an influencer under your own roof

[00:49:28] who's pimping Jesus chicken for free.

[00:49:31] I mean, come on man.

[00:49:32] Well, first of all for Shake Shack.

[00:49:37] Like phase one of this, like you mentioned,

[00:49:39] Sherwin Williams dumps a dude with millions of views

[00:49:44] on how to mix paints and shit.

[00:49:46] If this had happened today, let's hope that Lowe's

[00:49:48] or whoever the hell else sells paint would be like,

[00:49:50] oh, we're happy to bring you into the TikTok fold

[00:49:54] over here at Lowe's until it's banned

[00:49:56] by Congress in a few weeks.

[00:49:57] But good on Shake Shack for realize,

[00:50:03] seeing an opportunity and grabbing it.

[00:50:05] The whole closed on Sunday thing to me,

[00:50:07] I'm shocked that no one sort of picked up on that

[00:50:11] because chicken sandwiches are huge, right?

[00:50:13] Popeyes, everyone's dropping chicken sandwiches.

[00:50:17] And Shake Shack, this probably isn't their brand

[00:50:20] but like Burger King should have done

[00:50:23] like the hell's chicken sandwich

[00:50:26] like only available on Sunday to kind of stick it

[00:50:29] to Chick-fil-A.

[00:50:32] But talking about chicken, Chad,

[00:50:34] I don't know if you saw Chipotle's earnings this week

[00:50:38] but they are crushing it.

[00:50:40] The Al Pastor chicken,

[00:50:42] I don't know if you've tried this stuff, it's amazing.

[00:50:45] They're selling so much of it

[00:50:46] that they're telling their employees

[00:50:49] like don't have the chicken as your free meal

[00:50:52] because we're selling so much goddamn chicken.

[00:50:56] Chipotle is what I'm talking about, Chad.

[00:50:59] And if you can't get behind that clock,

[00:51:04] I don't know what kind of clock you can get behind.

[00:51:07] We out.

[00:51:08] Wow, look at you.

[00:51:10] You made it through an entire episode

[00:51:12] of the Chad and Chase podcast

[00:51:14] or maybe you cheated and fast forwarded to the end.

[00:51:17] Either way, there's no doubt

[00:51:19] you wish you had that time back.

[00:51:22] Valuable time you could have used

[00:51:23] to buy a nutritious meal at Taco Bell,

[00:51:26] enjoy a pour of your favorite whiskey

[00:51:30] or just watch big booty Latinas and bug fights on TikTok.

[00:51:35] No, you hung out with these two chuggle heads instead.

[00:51:40] Now go take a shower and wash off all the guilt

[00:51:44] but save some soap because you'll be back.

[00:51:47] Like an awful train wreck, you can't look away.

[00:51:51] And like Chad's favorite Western,

[00:51:54] you can't quit them either.

[00:51:56] We out.