Every thriving Indian creator embodies an entrepreneurial spirit.
Their content acts as a customer acquisition instrument in the realm of influencer marketing in India, guiding their fans (i.e., customers) toward other revenue-generating opportunities – such as courses, experiences, products or services. To unravel the dynamic landscape of creator commerce within India's creator economy, we engaged in a conversation with Jag Chima, the co-founder of IPLIX Media.
We delve into the distinctions between a creator and an entrepreneur mindset, pinpointing the ideal moment for content monetisation among Indian creators. Additionally, we explore various monetisation strategies for creators in emerging economies and offer valuable tips for those seeking to monetise a sub-10K followership. Furthermore, we discuss income inequality within India's burgeoning creator economy and much more.
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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Sekar marketer, creative and media nerd. Welcome to
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Speaker 1: the you incorporated podcast On this show, I catch up
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Speaker 1: with some of the most bad ass founders, business leaders
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Speaker 1: and content creators in the whole wide world. Whether you're
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Speaker 1: a marketer, creative or a budding founder, if you want
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Speaker 1: to build your brand your voice your way, you are
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Speaker 1: in the right place.
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Speaker 1: Join me on the you incorporated podcast and start building
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Speaker 1: your empire. Here we go.
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Speaker 1: Please join me in welcoming Mr Jag Jima, the co-founder
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Speaker 1: of Eclipse Media, one of India's fastest growing influencer marketing
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Speaker 1: and talent management agencies that aims to create a perfect
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Speaker 1: symphony between creators and brands. Jug takes pride in seeing
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Speaker 1: brands and creators thrive as a result of their unique
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Speaker 1: approach and the string strategies. Welcome to the show, Jug.
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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me
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Speaker 1: jug. There is this presumption that being a creator is
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Speaker 1: something where you could be an operator and not necessarily
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Speaker 1: an entrepreneur. How true is it to the realities of
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Speaker 1: holding up a content led business in today's day and age?
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Speaker 1: It's a great question. So
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Speaker 1: being a creator ultimately is about it's all about storytelling
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Speaker 1: and being relevant in the market is very important, understanding
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Speaker 1: the audience and being real.
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Speaker 1: So I think there's a lot of apprehension that people
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Speaker 1: have when they're creating content where they find something that
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Speaker 1: they're not.
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Speaker 1: And ultimately that doesn't last very long. And in which case,
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Speaker 1: a lot of content creators who start off fairly well
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Speaker 1: they are not very successful in their pursuit of becoming
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Speaker 1: a super huge content creator. However, those who are genuine
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Speaker 1: and understand how storytelling works understand their audiences. They are
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Speaker 1: generally very successful, and I see that over the last
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Speaker 1: few years we've had a huge influx of good quality
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Speaker 1: content creators who have surfaced,
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Speaker 1: and traditionally this industry wasn't seen as a career.
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Speaker 1: Uh, it was just seen as something that people do
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Speaker 1: when they have, Let's say, time on their hands Right now.
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Speaker 1: We've seen many people who are doing this full time
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Speaker 1: and have significant incomes as a direct result of becoming
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Speaker 1: good quality content creators. So I think the future is
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Speaker 1: definitely bright for sure, and this is definitely the way forward.
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Speaker 1: When it comes to marketing, we're already seeing how certain
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Speaker 1: algorithm changes can throw off a creator's content strategy often.
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Speaker 1: So how does a creator adjust to this change? Personally,
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Speaker 1: there will be times that content creators
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Speaker 1: create content, and they don't get the results that they want.
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Speaker 1: And that should be part and parcel of the plan.
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Speaker 1: You can't expect every single piece of content to go
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Speaker 1: viral and be a super hit, and many people do
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Speaker 1: get demotivated when that happens.
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Speaker 1: Now algorithms will continuously change and to be relevant to
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Speaker 1: make sure that you're always excelling, you need to be
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Speaker 1: ahead of the curve, understand what changes each of those
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Speaker 1: platforms are making and why you need to be involved
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Speaker 1: in that research continuously. So when you're creating content, all
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Speaker 1: that happens is that you may have to change the
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Speaker 1: way that you create that, and we're not specifically talking
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Speaker 1: about the topics or the way somebody comes across.
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Speaker 1: We're talking about the way that the content might be edited.
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Speaker 1: It might be short form content. It might be long
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Speaker 1: form content. There might be keywords that you need to understand,
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Speaker 1: and there could potentially be even topics that you might
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Speaker 1: have to incorporate, which might be the way forward. But
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Speaker 1: This is exactly the reason why
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Speaker 1: those creators who are going to have a longer shelf life,
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Speaker 1: they usually have a great team behind them.
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Speaker 1: So of course, it's not always going to be commercially
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Speaker 1: viable for somebody who's just starting out to hire people.
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Speaker 1: And I understand that I get that. It's has to
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Speaker 1: be something where they're able to commit 100% of time. And,
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Speaker 1: of course, everyone has commercial commitments as well financial commitments.
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Speaker 1: So you have to have a balance. But eventually
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Speaker 1: there will always be a need to either associate with
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Speaker 1: a maybe an agency who can help with that growth
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Speaker 1: or hire a team internally, where you can actually have
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Speaker 1: people consistently looking at the changes that are happening with
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Speaker 1: these platforms, so that you can always be ahead of
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Speaker 1: that curve and always grow, so you'll notice a lot
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Speaker 1: of changes with many platforms. Some of these platforms are
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Speaker 1: competing against each other. We had Tik tok in India
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Speaker 1: at one stage,
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Speaker 1: which created so many superstars overnight, the algorithm was but worldwide.
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Speaker 1: Those platforms are competing with Tiktok uh, so Instagram Instagram
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Speaker 1: are competing with YouTube, so as a content creator you
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Speaker 1: have to understand, what is it that each of these
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Speaker 1: platforms need from you that you can give them so
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Speaker 1: that you can consistently be relevant?
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Speaker 1: Absolutely. And in one of my earlier conversations with Dr
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Speaker 1: Manan Vora, who goes by the name the sports author,
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Speaker 1: he mentioned about how it is important for him to
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Speaker 1: have a team in place as early as possible to
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Speaker 1: be able to grow his footprint on social media and beyond.
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Speaker 1: How does a creator who's primarily driven by the joy
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Speaker 1: of content creation flip the switch
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Speaker 1: and think like AC entrepreneur? So there's a difference. Firstly,
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Speaker 1: when you're partially committed to this industry
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Speaker 1: and when you want to make that jump and be
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Speaker 1: committed fully. And I think for a lot of people,
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Speaker 1: of course, the creative aspect is very important. Having a
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Speaker 1: team in place is very important commercial. The revenues are
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Speaker 1: very important because obviously, if you're gonna hire people as
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Speaker 1: a team, it comes at a cost. And some creators,
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Speaker 1: when they see the level of investment that's required, sometimes
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Speaker 1: are put off because they have to self fund this
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Speaker 1: before they start to generate revenue.
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Speaker 1: So it's like a Catch 22. When do you make
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Speaker 1: that move? But ultimately there's a lot of factors that
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Speaker 1: that come into play. So in the example that you
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Speaker 1: just gave with doctor Manon Vora, that's a great example.
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Speaker 1: He clearly understands that he wants to continue doing what
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Speaker 1: he loves and create content about something that he's very
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Speaker 1: passionate about.
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Speaker 1: He's probably understood that editing and understanding the the operational
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Speaker 1: aspect of getting that content to the public is not
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Speaker 1: one of his strengths. So he's invested in the right team,
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Speaker 1: so he's able to excel very quickly, and that will
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Speaker 1: create more opportunities. Which means that if he wanted to
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Speaker 1: enter this as a full time, give his full time
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Speaker 1: to content creation, he'll be able to do that a
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Speaker 1: lot quicker.
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Speaker 1: And the difference between an entrepreneur and a content creator
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Speaker 1: is that content creators generally are very good at doing
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Speaker 1: what they do.
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Speaker 1: Entrepreneurs look for the opportunity for monetizing, so they find
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Speaker 1: ways of telling the story for the problem that they solve.
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Speaker 1: Whereas content creators usually unexpectedly are solving problems and then
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Speaker 1: they might look for ways of monetizing that. So that's
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Speaker 1: the difference. But then when these two come together, that's
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Speaker 1: when the magic starts to happen. And usually there's a
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Speaker 1: great team behind it.
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Speaker 1: Absolutely. You spoke about how important it is to have
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Speaker 1: a team behind a few, and quite naturally, all of
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Speaker 1: this costs money, right? So when is the right time
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Speaker 1: for a creator to start thinking about monetization models so
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Speaker 1: that they can potentially funnel that money back into the
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Speaker 1: business in hiring a team and having these machineries in
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Speaker 1: place to be able to grow their content empire?
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Speaker 1: That's a great question, and it's a question that a
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Speaker 1: lot of entry level creators
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Speaker 1: have on their mind as soon as they start. The
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Speaker 1: fact is that you have to look at this from
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Speaker 1: two perspectives. The first is your own. But before you
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Speaker 1: do that, you have to look at this from a
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Speaker 1: perspective of a potential associate that might pay you to
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Speaker 1: promote their brand.
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Speaker 1: Why would they pay you to promote their brand? What
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Speaker 1: value do you actually bring to the table?
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Speaker 1: Once you understand those metrics, then you'll automatically answer that
00:09:00
Speaker 1: question yourself. So let's just say you have a very
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Speaker 1: low engagement, Your conversion rate will more than likely be
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Speaker 1: very low.
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Speaker 1: And as a organisation who might pay you for a
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Speaker 1: brand collaboration or an endorsement, they're interested in conversions. They
00:09:18
Speaker 1: will have an objective. So studying your analytics is probably
00:09:23
Speaker 1: going to be one of the basic steps that you
00:09:25
Speaker 1: need to take to understand before you start money. Are
00:09:28
Speaker 1: you producing content that makes an impact?
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Speaker 1: Are the audiences getting involved?
00:09:34
Speaker 1: And one of the most important things that people forget
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Speaker 1: is content. Creation comes with creating communities. That's the way
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Speaker 1: that content creators should look at their followers. It should
00:09:44
Speaker 1: be looked upon not as just a number but as
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Speaker 1: a community. And how many of those members of that
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Speaker 1: community are you making an impact with? Because as soon
00:09:54
Speaker 1: as you start thinking of things like that,
00:09:56
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you'll start creating content in a
00:09:59
Speaker 1: way whereby you may be asking questions.
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Speaker 1: You may be studying the problems that your audiences have
00:10:05
Speaker 1: so that you can highlight those and automatically the engagement
00:10:08
Speaker 1: rates start to go up.
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Speaker 1: And then, based on the engagement rates, you'll be able
00:10:14
Speaker 1: to assess the right time to actually start monetizing by
00:10:18
Speaker 1: way of maybe brand associations and C PM advertisements
00:10:24
Speaker 1: and possibly even launching products and services that these creators
00:10:28
Speaker 1: might want to sell on their own platforms, which are
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Speaker 1: connected to the type of content that they create to
00:10:33
Speaker 1: spoke about. C. PM and monetization economies around the world
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Speaker 1: have this very unique challenge, where certain
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Speaker 1: models are rendered useless until you reach a critical mass.
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Speaker 1: India is notorious for its low C PM rates. So
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Speaker 1: what are a couple of the monetization models that aspiring
00:10:53
Speaker 1: creators in emerging companies can look at by the time
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Speaker 1: they hit? Let's say, 1000 subscribers or 1000 followers for podcasts.
00:11:03
Speaker 1: Affiliate marketing is always one of the favourites that people
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Speaker 1: are kind of gravitate, which is which works for quite
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Speaker 1: a lot of creators as long as they pick the
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Speaker 1: right products or services and also possibly creating value, adding
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Speaker 1: products or even services. EBooks has been a massive one
00:11:19
Speaker 1: for people in the West, for example,
00:11:21
Speaker 1: and I've seen some amazing models that even micro level
00:11:25
Speaker 1: creators have a like amazing revenues that even micro level
00:11:28
Speaker 1: creators have created based on the number of followers that
00:11:31
Speaker 1: they have, and it really comes down to how they
00:11:35
Speaker 1: market those products or services, whether it be affiliate marketing
00:11:38
Speaker 1: or whether it be a product or service that they've
00:11:41
Speaker 1: created of their own.
00:11:42
Speaker 1: But the most important thing to remember when trying to
00:11:46
Speaker 1: monetize is that you don't want to go for an
00:11:49
Speaker 1: overkill where every single post that you have is trying
00:11:53
Speaker 1: to sell something where it becomes very obvious that the
00:11:56
Speaker 1: creator is becoming a little desperate to try and monetize.
00:12:00
Speaker 1: That's when you know that you're not having a good
00:12:04
Speaker 1: balance of high quality content and trying to monetize.
00:12:08
Speaker 1: So it's very important to make sure that the the
00:12:12
Speaker 1: mechanics of how this is done is worked out in
00:12:15
Speaker 1: the right way,
00:12:17
Speaker 1: absolutely in terms of how the creator economy is laid
00:12:20
Speaker 1: out Currently, it's like how the economy is as well
00:12:25
Speaker 1: right where the lion share of the revenue and the
00:12:28
Speaker 1: money to be made and the monetization opportunities, be it
00:12:32
Speaker 1: in terms of brand collapse or otherwise, are coming primarily
00:12:36
Speaker 1: to the top 1% of content. Creator. What's your take
00:12:40
Speaker 1: on the future of micro creators? People who would have,
00:12:43
Speaker 1: let's say, a sub 10-K but a
00:12:45
Speaker 1: loyal audience. Potentially. Do you think that this segment is
00:12:50
Speaker 1: going to grow and likely take up a bigger share
00:12:52
Speaker 1: of the creative economy or likely to shrink but still
00:12:56
Speaker 1: hang in there? As as production costs and other costs
00:12:59
Speaker 1: associated with inflation take over their their their their content
00:13:03
Speaker 1: creation machinery? What's your take on what will happen?
00:13:07
Speaker 1: No, I don't think it will shrink. I think it's
00:13:09
Speaker 1: likely to grow. I think the top 1% As you mentioned,
00:13:12
Speaker 1: They inspire the entry level creators or even the creators
00:13:17
Speaker 1: that have been around for a while but have not
00:13:19
Speaker 1: managed to grow as well as they might have hoped.
00:13:22
Speaker 1: So that aspiration will always be there. The creative economy
00:13:25
Speaker 1: as a whole is growing rapidly. It's one of the
00:13:28
Speaker 1: best ways to market anything in the world. You can
00:13:30
Speaker 1: actually quantify the actual case, and this is the beauty.
00:13:35
Speaker 1: You do a billboard ad. You will never know how
00:13:37
Speaker 1: successful it really was. You do a television ad. You'll
00:13:40
Speaker 1: never know how successful it was. A newspaper ad. You'll
00:13:44
Speaker 1: never know how successful it was, radio and so forth.
00:13:47
Speaker 1: This is probably one of the best ways to for
00:13:50
Speaker 1: a company to grow. So micro creators are just as
00:13:53
Speaker 1: important as the top 1% because they contribute so much
00:13:58
Speaker 1: to the community. To this whole economy. It's unreal, so
00:14:02
Speaker 1: I never undermine micro creators. I respect them a lot.
00:14:06
Speaker 1: A lot of them bring a lot of great ideas.
00:14:08
Speaker 1: And out of a large majority of these micro creators,
00:14:11
Speaker 1: you'll find that they will enter the top 1% in
00:14:15
Speaker 1: a very short span of time.
00:14:17
Speaker 1: So that is the way that I look at this,
00:14:20
Speaker 1: this segment of greater economy, and it's pretty exciting.
00:14:24
Speaker 1: Absolutely. How do you think the celebrity versus creator dynamics
00:14:30
Speaker 1: are likely to change, at least in the next five years?
00:14:34
Speaker 1: Do you think creators are going to be celebrity in
00:14:37
Speaker 1: the same way we perceive celebrity so far?
00:14:40
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I I see that happening already, and I can
00:14:44
Speaker 1: see that some brands are now going back to the
00:14:47
Speaker 1: Bollywood celebrities. Let's just say maybe because of the pricing,
00:14:51
Speaker 1: but ultimately it shouldn't be based on how much a
00:14:55
Speaker 1: celebrity or a content creator charges.
00:14:58
Speaker 1: There should be more assessment into the analytics. The conversions?
00:15:03
Speaker 1: What do those conversion rates look like you know how
00:15:06
Speaker 1: many people actually convert. There's a difference between the number
00:15:09
Speaker 1: of views that are gotten on any kind of campaign,
00:15:12
Speaker 1: and there's a difference of was the objective fulfilled?
00:15:16
Speaker 1: So those companies that simply assess content creator based on
00:15:20
Speaker 1: a cost and compare them with a celebrity? I think
00:15:23
Speaker 1: this is questionable. Are they actually looking at the end result,
00:15:27
Speaker 1: or are they only looking at the cost of the
00:15:29
Speaker 1: person and comparing the followers? Gone are the days now
00:15:33
Speaker 1: where brands would just pay a creator based on the
00:15:37
Speaker 1: number of followers.
00:15:39
Speaker 1: Most brands are not that concerned about the number of followers.
00:15:43
Speaker 1: Most brands are concerned about conversion, and that's why it's
00:15:47
Speaker 1: always important to have a good quality agency involved. Who
00:15:50
Speaker 1: can help to decode all of these analytics and
00:15:54
Speaker 1: report back to the brand in an understandable format where
00:15:58
Speaker 1: they know that. OK, this is your investment, and this
00:16:01
Speaker 1: is the kind of return on your investment that you
00:16:03
Speaker 1: can expect. Am I going to get $2 back for
00:16:06
Speaker 1: every dollar that I spend? Am I gonna get $3 back?
00:16:08
Speaker 1: For every dollar that I spend? Is the objective a
00:16:12
Speaker 1: sale is the objective a download of an app or
00:16:15
Speaker 1: is the objective just to get views? There's so many
00:16:18
Speaker 1: different areas
00:16:19
Speaker 1: of the actual campaign that need to be explored. So yes,
00:16:24
Speaker 1: I in in simple terms, Yeah, I do see that happening.
00:16:27
Speaker 1: But I see people experimenting with, um, celebrities, film stars
00:16:33
Speaker 1: and then doing a side by side comparison and then
00:16:36
Speaker 1: maybe going back to the content creators. And ultimately, it
00:16:39
Speaker 1: all comes down to organic integration.
00:16:42
Speaker 1: So it's a campaign. Looks like it's a paid campaign.
00:16:46
Speaker 1: It's highly likely that it will be a lower conversion
00:16:49
Speaker 1: than a campaign where the product or service was organically integrated.
00:16:53
Speaker 1: Which again, is a reason why there's always a need
00:16:56
Speaker 1: for a good agency to be involved where the kind
00:16:59
Speaker 1: of execution can be planned Really well,
00:17:03
Speaker 1: absolutely. Do you think digital creators in the longer term
00:17:09
Speaker 1: should aspire to go into mainstream entertainment Or they should
00:17:15
Speaker 1: carve out a niche? I think that there's no harm
00:17:19
Speaker 1: in creators entering the mainstream entertainment segment,
00:17:23
Speaker 1: but and this is a big but I feel that
00:17:27
Speaker 1: they shouldn't put aside what took them to that level.
00:17:32
Speaker 1: The content creation should continue you mentioned Lily Singh and
00:17:37
Speaker 1: my daughter is A was a huge fan when she
00:17:39
Speaker 1: was a child of her earlier verticals, which were the
00:17:43
Speaker 1: shows that she used to do and the type of
00:17:45
Speaker 1: content she used to create, which I feel that she
00:17:48
Speaker 1: might have somewhat moved away from based on the new
00:17:51
Speaker 1: opportunities that she got.
00:17:53
Speaker 1: And now she may have a newer audience.
00:17:56
Speaker 1: But
00:17:57
Speaker 1: what kind of shelf life does the new verticals have?
00:18:00
Speaker 1: How long will you remain relevant?
00:18:03
Speaker 1: So with content creation, the beauty is that if you
00:18:06
Speaker 1: continue to create content and you're frequent in your episodes,
00:18:11
Speaker 1: your posts that you create, you'll always be relevant. You'll
00:18:15
Speaker 1: always be changing with the times, the things that are
00:18:17
Speaker 1: changing in your life, so that foundation will always be
00:18:20
Speaker 1: there despite you entering, Let's say mainstream media and I
00:18:25
Speaker 1: think keeping these two vertical side by side is extremely
00:18:28
Speaker 1: important is when you let go of one
00:18:30
Speaker 1: risk the other. If the other doesn't work and then
00:18:34
Speaker 1: try and enter back into where you left off. It
00:18:37
Speaker 1: doesn't work like that because it almost is like starting
00:18:41
Speaker 1: from ground zero again
00:18:43
Speaker 1: in relation to creating brands. I'm a huge fan of that.
00:18:47
Speaker 1: But
00:18:48
Speaker 1: content creators are good at creating content. They need to
00:18:52
Speaker 1: have good teams in place that can help them to
00:18:55
Speaker 1: create the best business plan and not just think about
00:18:59
Speaker 1: the first year. Think about the next 10 years. If
00:19:02
Speaker 1: you're gonna create a brand like you mentioned, Mr Beast,
00:19:04
Speaker 1: have a look at those some of those valuations that
00:19:06
Speaker 1: they've created. But one of the most important things to
00:19:09
Speaker 1: look at is have a look at the team that
00:19:11
Speaker 1: he has behind him
00:19:13
Speaker 1: that have helped him to create those brands.
00:19:16
Speaker 1: And also, what kind of trajectory have they got? What
00:19:19
Speaker 1: are they looking to exit? Are they looking to raise
00:19:21
Speaker 1: What will that entail? So what they will always make
00:19:24
Speaker 1: sure is that if the brand is centred around the
00:19:27
Speaker 1: content creator shouldn't get distracted. They should focus even more
00:19:31
Speaker 1: on creating the best quality content that they can do
00:19:35
Speaker 1: and have the right people in place to focus on
00:19:37
Speaker 1: the actual brand that they create. And I feel that
00:19:40
Speaker 1: definitely has an amazing future. There's lots of creators in
00:19:44
Speaker 1: the West
00:19:45
Speaker 1: that have got high quality brands that they've created, which
00:19:47
Speaker 1: with amazing valuations. But I've also equally seen a lot
00:19:51
Speaker 1: of content. Creators create brands which have failed, and the
00:19:56
Speaker 1: reason for that is because they created one or two skews.
00:19:59
Speaker 1: Maybe 10 skews. They took off really well. But what next?
00:20:03
Speaker 1: The Content Creator had to take time out to think
00:20:06
Speaker 1: about product development. What will people be interested in?
00:20:09
Speaker 1: Has to take time away from creating that amazing content
00:20:12
Speaker 1: that actually helped them to create this opportunity in the
00:20:15
Speaker 1: first place?
00:20:17
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden it fizzled out. You
00:20:19
Speaker 1: may have seen people selling merch, and then all of
00:20:22
Speaker 1: a sudden they stopped talking about it. So you need
00:20:25
Speaker 1: to have the right people in place and never do
00:20:27
Speaker 1: a sport analysis. Make sure you focus on your weaknesses.
00:20:32
Speaker 1: And if you can't do something, bring somebody in to
00:20:34
Speaker 1: do it. That's when you're ready to start a brand
00:20:36
Speaker 1: folks on that insightful not it's a wrap. Thank you
00:20:41
Speaker 1: so much for being on the podcast. Jack really appreciate
00:20:43
Speaker 1: you taking time out. Thank you for having me appreciate it.
00:20:47
Speaker 1: Guys, please do tune in next week for the next
00:20:50
Speaker 1: episode of the U incorporated podcast. See ya.
00:20:58
Speaker 1: Thank you for tuning into the you incorporated podcast with me.
00:21:03
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00:21:21
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00:21:24
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00:21:28
Speaker 1: our show logs catch you in the next episode.