On this episode of Thrifty Titans., we dive into the world of content debt and UX writing with special guest Yuval Keshtcher, the founder of the UX Writing Hub, a leading UX Writing Training Program.
Yuval shares his insights on how good content design and writing can lead to product-led growth and increased revenue. He also shares his experiences in researching and adapting products or services to local markets, drawing from his work with Uber's team in India.
Join us as we uncover the importance of creating a better user experience and the impact of quality writing in the digital landscape.
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Saikat Pyne: this week, we proudly welcome Yal Ketcher, a tech entrepreneur
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Saikat Pyne: and UX design maestro, as the host of the writers
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Saikat Pyne: in Tech podcast and the mastermind behind UX writing Hub
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Saikat Pyne: and UX writing, Academy
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Saikat Pyne: Yuan has harnessed the true power of words fuel remarkable
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Saikat Pyne: business growth. His world's first US writing boot camp has
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Saikat Pyne: transformed countless professionals, enabling them to dominate
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Saikat Pyne: the realm of UX writing and content design. On this week,
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Saikat Pyne: we spent some time with you while diving deep into
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Saikat Pyne: the art of crafting captivating narratives within apps that drive
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Saikat Pyne: product like growth. So brace yourself for an extraordinary journey.
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Saikat Pyne: Hello, Hello, Welcome to the U Incorporated podcast with me,
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Saikat Pyne: your friendly Neighbourhood Part-time creator and full time media nude.
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Saikat Pyne: On this show, I catch up with some of the
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Saikat Pyne: most bad ass founders, media, Mavericks and indie hackers in
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Saikat Pyne: the whole wide world. And we have some truly insightful
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Saikat Pyne: chats on startups, media and influence, the stuff that gets
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Saikat Pyne: left out of the media headlines.
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Saikat Pyne: Whether you're in a corporate a startup, you own a
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Saikat Pyne: legacy brand, a scrappy side hustle or you're only a student.
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Saikat Pyne: If you are keen to build your brand, your voice,
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Saikat Pyne: your way you're in the right place. Here we go.
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Saikat Pyne: Welcome to the show. You
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Yuval Keshtcher: Thank you so much like that for the invite. Super excited, Uh,
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Yuval Keshtcher: to be featured on your podcast
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Saikat Pyne: today. Great to have you on the show. You Let's
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Saikat Pyne: just take right in. Could you break it down for me?
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Saikat Pyne: In very simple terms, how UX writing can really contribute
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Saikat Pyne: to the success of an early stage startup?
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Yuval Keshtcher: That's a very good question. Let's
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Yuval Keshtcher: do a playful exercise real quick. So right. Give me
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Yuval Keshtcher: the type of product that you're talking about. Let's
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Saikat Pyne: say it's a fintech
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Yuval Keshtcher: product. You know what? Let's just go for the the
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Yuval Keshtcher: worst kind of fintech, which is banking apps. OK, right.
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Yuval Keshtcher: Let's say that you want to join this bank and
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Yuval Keshtcher: now that you're in that bank, they have an app,
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Yuval Keshtcher: so they have some kind of a digital experience. In
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Yuval Keshtcher: the past few years, many companies, fintech startups and so on,
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Yuval Keshtcher: but also
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Yuval Keshtcher: old companies like banks had to do digital transformation, so
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Yuval Keshtcher: they had to build apps and stuff website apps and
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Yuval Keshtcher: et cetera. And within that banking app, you want to
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Yuval Keshtcher: do actions as user. You want to ask for a loan.
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Yuval Keshtcher: You want to check your checking account, You want to
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Yuval Keshtcher: invest in stocks. There's a lot of things you can do. Uh,
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Yuval Keshtcher: in that specific banking app
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Yuval Keshtcher: No,
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Yuval Keshtcher: when everything is good means OK, if you're able to
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Yuval Keshtcher: do all of the things in that app, that's fantastic.
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Yuval Keshtcher: That's good user experience. But stuff
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Yuval Keshtcher: bad stuff is happening. When she did the fan when
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Yuval Keshtcher: you want, for example to I don't know, there is,
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Yuval Keshtcher: like a very specific use case. Like someone asked for
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Yuval Keshtcher: a check, which is something I don't know. I don't
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Yuval Keshtcher: use checks anymore, right. And now you ask for the bank. Hey,
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Yuval Keshtcher: can you provide me? I don't know. Can you send
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Yuval Keshtcher: it to my home? And then they tell you No,
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Yuval Keshtcher: we can't send it to you to your home. You
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Yuval Keshtcher: can do it via app. Please send us a fax
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Yuval Keshtcher: or please come to our branch
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Yuval Keshtcher: and we will provide you with all of the checks, right?
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Yuval Keshtcher: The written checks that you asked for, that's a bad
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Yuval Keshtcher: It was their experience. For me. It doesn't matter. It
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Yuval Keshtcher: which was like how it was communicated and so on.
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Yuval Keshtcher: It was a bad customer experience overall.
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Yuval Keshtcher: Now, as a user of digital products,
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Yuval Keshtcher: when I would see a bank that have all of
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Yuval Keshtcher: the future of my current tax, in addition to the
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Yuval Keshtcher: fact that they will, I don't know, send me a
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Yuval Keshtcher: check and a check package on demand to my home.
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Yuval Keshtcher: When I will press on the button, I would probably
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Yuval Keshtcher: go to that bank. The bank did provide me with
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Yuval Keshtcher: better experience, customers and user expense with their, uh, app.
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Yuval Keshtcher: So what we learn here, Basically, what we learned here
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Yuval Keshtcher: is that the company or specifically, in this case, the
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Yuval Keshtcher: bank that provided me with better user experience was the
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Yuval Keshtcher: one that I chose as a customer,
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Yuval Keshtcher: like So what do we learn you
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Yuval Keshtcher: is that
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Yuval Keshtcher: good is good business?
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Yuval Keshtcher: OK, good. It's good for your business, and the writing
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Yuval Keshtcher: is designing, So
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Yuval Keshtcher: the words that you have in a digital interface comes
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Yuval Keshtcher: and those words would be the words that will decide eventually.
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Yuval Keshtcher: In addition to the desire in addition to the customer
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Yuval Keshtcher: support in addition to the whole package, if the experience
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Yuval Keshtcher: of your app is going to be enough for the
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Yuval Keshtcher: end user or not,
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Yuval Keshtcher: it's good for retention means more people coming back to
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Yuval Keshtcher: your app and product and servicing and company versus in
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Yuval Keshtcher: addition to less churn means less people leaving your products
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Yuval Keshtcher: and services
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Yuval Keshtcher: and the banking app is the most simple way to
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Yuval Keshtcher: go because we talked about Fintech. But it's actually going
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Yuval Keshtcher: to happen. It's not going to happen. It's already happening
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Yuval Keshtcher: in all of the digital experiences that we have because
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Yuval Keshtcher: there isn't a single company in the world that didn't
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Yuval Keshtcher: do digital transformation. So as long as they need the transformation,
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Yuval Keshtcher: there's going to be demand for you writing,
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Yuval Keshtcher: and we need to invest heavily in
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Yuval Keshtcher: thinking about it and doing it and being good at it. Otherwise,
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Yuval Keshtcher: it's bad for business.
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Yuval Keshtcher: I want to say 11 last thing about that when
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Yuval Keshtcher: your customers slash users use your APP.
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Yuval Keshtcher: Experience is not being compelled to your competition. It's not
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Yuval Keshtcher: compared to other banks. Necessarily, it's being compared to the
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Yuval Keshtcher: whole experiences they get
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Yuval Keshtcher: in Digital land means that if
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Yuval Keshtcher: Twitter have a very great sharing feature
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Yuval Keshtcher: and it works really well somehow, so if you have
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Yuval Keshtcher: this sharing feature that I don't know
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Yuval Keshtcher: in your app and it's like a fintech app even.
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Yuval Keshtcher: And it's not competition with Twitter. The fact that Twitter
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Yuval Keshtcher: released a feature that works with one. Now you're competing
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Yuval Keshtcher: with that experience in a way, So now you need
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Yuval Keshtcher: to create better sharing experience in your product. So that's
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Yuval Keshtcher: why it's difficult also to be good at UX,
00:07:43
Saikat Pyne: by the way. But why do I need to hire
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Saikat Pyne: a UX content writer? Of
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Yuval Keshtcher: course, you can always push that can 1 1 ft
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Yuval Keshtcher: longer and delayed. But
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Yuval Keshtcher: I'm working with clients, OK? And by the way, my
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Yuval Keshtcher: name is YK and I'm the founder of the UX
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Yuval Keshtcher: writing hub. The UX writing hub is the platform that
00:08:03
Yuval Keshtcher: is educational. Platform means that we have U writing courses,
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Yuval Keshtcher: but we are also doing U writing projects for clients
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Yuval Keshtcher: and for a company that's me by a nut. So
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Yuval Keshtcher: in addition to other stuff that I'm doing, I'm not
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Yuval Keshtcher: going to talk about it right now. So
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Yuval Keshtcher: and really,
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Yuval Keshtcher: yeah,
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Yuval Keshtcher: when I work with clients for you exciting projects, it's
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Yuval Keshtcher: very common that the step that I'm stepping in is
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Yuval Keshtcher: that and that's the most common step. That step is
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Yuval Keshtcher: too late, OK, and what do you when I say
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Yuval Keshtcher: too late. It means that they build already electricity product.
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Yuval Keshtcher: They have designers. They have developers. They have road maps
00:08:47
Yuval Keshtcher: and so on. They don't have consistent writing in their app,
00:08:53
Yuval Keshtcher: which create confusion in the usual experience. Hm
00:08:58
Yuval Keshtcher: er, it means that they have a lot of uncles
00:09:01
Yuval Keshtcher: in their app,
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Yuval Keshtcher: and a lot of times the problem comes to the surface.
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Yuval Keshtcher: And then it's clear. Oh, OK, so now we need
00:09:09
Yuval Keshtcher: a new excited. But then we step in
00:09:12
Yuval Keshtcher: and the problem is way deeper.
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Yuval Keshtcher: The way you do your naming convention internally, the way
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Yuval Keshtcher: you talk with your team and communicate with each other
00:09:22
Yuval Keshtcher: about the different features
00:09:25
Yuval Keshtcher: right about. OK, so we have
00:09:28
Yuval Keshtcher: Let's say we're building Spotify now, right? So
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Yuval Keshtcher: how are we going to call a playlist? Are we
00:09:36
Yuval Keshtcher: going to call it a playlist? Are we going to
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Yuval Keshtcher: call it a list? Are we going to call it
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Yuval Keshtcher: a soundtrack? I don't know
00:09:43
Yuval Keshtcher: because but but billions of people are going to see it,
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Yuval Keshtcher: and it's better. Be good.
00:09:50
Yuval Keshtcher: OK,
00:09:51
Yuval Keshtcher: so
00:09:53
Yuval Keshtcher: the step to time stepping in the project more in
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Yuval Keshtcher: the most common areas is too late and Then when
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Yuval Keshtcher: I step in, it's clear that they have something that
00:10:03
Yuval Keshtcher: I call a content that
00:10:07
Yuval Keshtcher: and
00:10:09
Yuval Keshtcher: like, like any debt you have compound compounded interest rate
00:10:13
Yuval Keshtcher: for it.
00:10:15
Yuval Keshtcher: And just like in US design,
00:10:19
Yuval Keshtcher: if you do it, probably in the early days that
00:10:22
Yuval Keshtcher: it's going to be bad
00:10:24
Yuval Keshtcher: in later stages. My grandmother used to say, If you
00:10:28
Yuval Keshtcher: want to build a house, you need to lay out foundations.
00:10:32
Yuval Keshtcher: And if you didn't laid out strong foundation for your
00:10:35
Yuval Keshtcher: content operations and your content, then your UK strip and
00:10:39
Yuval Keshtcher: your design and
00:10:41
Yuval Keshtcher: the way that you build the experience of your product,
00:10:44
Yuval Keshtcher: you're going to pay for it. If not today, you're
00:10:47
Yuval Keshtcher: going to pay for it
00:10:48
Saikat Pyne: later. Could you tell me a bit more about this
00:10:50
Saikat Pyne: idea of content debt? I find it very interesting you
00:10:53
Saikat Pyne: spoke about this in your podcast episode with a colleague
00:10:56
Saikat Pyne: of mine.
00:10:57
Yuval Keshtcher: It's a very good question how to measure your content debt.
00:11:01
Yuval Keshtcher: Uh, the way to measure consent debt is when you
00:11:05
Yuval Keshtcher: actually end up having the first proactive you exciter for
00:11:10
Yuval Keshtcher: your company and
00:11:15
Yuval Keshtcher: and then they tell you. Listen, I have too much
00:11:17
Yuval Keshtcher: on my plate. We need more. So then you need
00:11:18
Yuval Keshtcher: to try like 56 more, and that's your that's you.
00:11:22
Yuval Keshtcher: You instead of fixing it
00:11:24
Yuval Keshtcher: in advance, you now need a lot of people to
00:11:27
Yuval Keshtcher: do it, and it costs you a lot of money.
00:11:30
Yuval Keshtcher: That's one.
00:11:31
Yuval Keshtcher: The second thing is that,
00:11:34
Yuval Keshtcher: yeah, it's not about time. So
00:11:37
Yuval Keshtcher: you hire someone and then they dive into the product
00:11:39
Yuval Keshtcher: and they see a lot of like something I call
00:11:41
Yuval Keshtcher: dusty corners in front of
00:11:44
Yuval Keshtcher: nobody. Touches touched the content of those areas, maybe since
00:11:48
Yuval Keshtcher: day one, since they launched the product and it can
00:11:50
Yuval Keshtcher: be there for, like years, five years, six years, seven
00:11:53
Yuval Keshtcher: years and that the decks you need to go into
00:11:58
Yuval Keshtcher: the dusty corners and you need to clean them up
00:12:00
Yuval Keshtcher: real good and to rewrite the copy.
00:12:03
Yuval Keshtcher: And and it takes a lot of time and lots
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Yuval Keshtcher: of efforts.
00:12:07
Saikat Pyne: Got it, got it. So anything that is taking up
00:12:09
Saikat Pyne: a lot more time than usual in terms of UX
00:12:13
Saikat Pyne: writing is the content
00:12:17
Yuval Keshtcher: that's like the operational content debt. But you have another
00:12:20
Yuval Keshtcher: content debt, which is the amount of users that you
00:12:23
Yuval Keshtcher: lost because of. Maybe if your pricing page was a
00:12:27
Yuval Keshtcher: bit clear. You could earn more users like 2030% more users.
00:12:32
Yuval Keshtcher: That's part of the debt, right?
00:12:34
Yuval Keshtcher: Maybe if
00:12:36
Yuval Keshtcher: the experience didn't suck so much in the on boarding,
00:12:40
Yuval Keshtcher: you wouldn't love so many users along the way. Maybe
00:12:44
Yuval Keshtcher: if they
00:12:47
Yuval Keshtcher: content was better inside of the product.
00:12:51
Yuval Keshtcher: You had more product led growth. That's leading to more
00:12:54
Yuval Keshtcher: developments and more users that pay you more money is
00:12:58
Yuval Keshtcher: a company that did really well. In my opinion, they
00:13:02
Yuval Keshtcher: you know, they have good product, that growth. They communicate
00:13:05
Yuval Keshtcher: really well. Like it's a very complicated CRM system. They
00:13:08
Yuval Keshtcher: have marketing area, they have the sales hubspot, and they
00:13:11
Yuval Keshtcher: have the customer support hubspot, and what they do really
00:13:15
Yuval Keshtcher: well is product led growth, like they hook you with
00:13:19
Yuval Keshtcher: their free trial.
00:13:20
Yuval Keshtcher: And then you find yourself paying more and more money
00:13:24
Yuval Keshtcher: because you need to use more of it, and they
00:13:28
Yuval Keshtcher: do a great job to communicate it to you.
00:13:31
Yuval Keshtcher: And they do a great job to make you convert.
00:13:34
Yuval Keshtcher: And that's because of good content design. That's because of
00:13:37
Yuval Keshtcher: good books writing,
00:13:39
Yuval Keshtcher: and those companies grow, grow and do amazing things, just
00:13:43
Yuval Keshtcher: like hubs For
00:13:44
Saikat Pyne: example, for somebody who's really starting off their career as
00:13:49
Saikat Pyne: a UX writer, how do you really balance the need
00:13:53
Saikat Pyne: for clarity in the messaging of UX content while still
00:13:58
Saikat Pyne: having some bit of creativity and personality in your UX writing?
00:14:02
Yuval Keshtcher: So that's the difference between a copy it and a
00:14:05
Yuval Keshtcher: U title. It's similar to the difference between a graphic
00:14:08
Yuval Keshtcher: designer and a U designer. If you really think about it,
00:14:12
Yuval Keshtcher: the
00:14:15
Yuval Keshtcher: A user experience in, uh, an app that you're using
00:14:19
Yuval Keshtcher: is supposed to be invisible.
00:14:21
Yuval Keshtcher: You shouldn't stop, and you shouldn't think about it. It
00:14:24
Yuval Keshtcher: should be seamless. It should be clear as possible. Nothing
00:14:29
Yuval Keshtcher: should stop you. You shouldn't have any friction at all.
00:14:32
Yuval Keshtcher: And that's the difference. A lot of graphic designers like
00:14:34
Yuval Keshtcher: to create like fancy, crazy creative design, and when they're
00:14:39
Yuval Keshtcher: doing the transition to design, it's OK. It shouldn't
00:14:42
Yuval Keshtcher: show necessary personality in every single screen that you design.
00:14:47
Yuval Keshtcher: You should create a seamless, cohesive, consistent flow between the
00:14:52
Yuval Keshtcher: different screens that will make sense, actually, for people,
00:14:56
Yuval Keshtcher: not every sentence should be a banger
00:14:58
Yuval Keshtcher: should be a user flow
00:15:01
Yuval Keshtcher: and
00:15:02
Yuval Keshtcher: clarity wins every time, just clarity.
00:15:06
Yuval Keshtcher: Put your voice and tone in there when you can
00:15:09
Yuval Keshtcher: make it funny. If you can er, er, make it
00:15:12
Yuval Keshtcher: as consistent as possible as you can.
00:15:14
Saikat Pyne: How can UX writing really drive product adoption?
00:15:20
Saikat Pyne: Because in a lot of emerging markets across Southeast Asia,
00:15:24
Saikat Pyne: digital technologies are just about kicking off. There are new
00:15:27
Saikat Pyne: segments being created, new apps launched in new product categories,
00:15:31
Saikat Pyne: first generation mobile users trying out some of these products
00:15:35
Saikat Pyne: for the first time ever.
00:15:37
Yuval Keshtcher: So that's a good example. And the answer to that
00:15:40
Yuval Keshtcher: question would always be research.
00:15:43
Yuval Keshtcher: Uh, for example, I know about the Uber team. When
00:15:46
Yuval Keshtcher: they tried to implement their app in India, specifically shadowed
00:15:51
Yuval Keshtcher: taxi drivers, they saw how people behave. They noticed how
00:15:55
Yuval Keshtcher: the local market use this type of service so they
00:16:00
Yuval Keshtcher: could adapt themselves. If you would look on the Indian
00:16:05
Yuval Keshtcher: uber app, uh, you'll see that the design and the
00:16:08
Yuval Keshtcher: communication of it is going to be completely different than
00:16:11
Yuval Keshtcher: the American uber app. Yeah, OK, the type of English
00:16:15
Yuval Keshtcher: that they use might be simplified. Maybe they will use
00:16:19
Yuval Keshtcher: English for non native speaking E English speakers. Right? So
00:16:24
Yuval Keshtcher: maybe the English would be
00:16:28
Yuval Keshtcher: like a five grade level and not 11 grade level.
00:16:32
Yuval Keshtcher: They try, they try to simplify it and they will
00:16:34
Yuval Keshtcher: know to do it only because of research. So they
00:16:37
Yuval Keshtcher: will fly to the destination. They will shadow taxi driver.
00:16:41
Yuval Keshtcher: They will talk with people that ordered cabs. They will
00:16:44
Yuval Keshtcher: notice this. Their behaviour take notes. They will track their
00:16:48
Yuval Keshtcher: data and see how they behave. And based on that research,
00:16:52
Yuval Keshtcher: they will know how to design and communicate this. A
00:16:54
Saikat Pyne: eventually
00:16:56
Saikat Pyne: got it. Could you really break down the differences between
00:17:00
Saikat Pyne: UX writing and traditional copyrighting and how these differences impact
00:17:04
Saikat Pyne: product growth? Because it's very tantalising to bring some of
00:17:08
Saikat Pyne: those notions into UX writing? Definitely.
00:17:11
Yuval Keshtcher: So there is. First of all, there is a lot
00:17:13
Yuval Keshtcher: of overlap between the two and then of the day.
00:17:15
Yuval Keshtcher: Both of them should know a lot about the product
00:17:19
Yuval Keshtcher: that they're selling. It's all matter of the voice and tone.
00:17:25
Yuval Keshtcher: OK, imagine that your product is an example of really using.
00:17:30
Yuval Keshtcher: Imagine that your product is a bicycle, so you wanna
00:17:34
Yuval Keshtcher: buy a bike and you go to a bike store
00:17:37
Yuval Keshtcher: and you have the bike salesperson
00:17:41
Yuval Keshtcher: and that person knows everything about the bike
00:17:44
Yuval Keshtcher: he knows about the features of the bike. You know,
00:17:47
Yuval Keshtcher: like it will sell you an experience. It will tell
00:17:49
Yuval Keshtcher: you it will tell you something like you can drive
00:17:52
Yuval Keshtcher: in the mountains with it. It will feel you. You
00:17:54
Yuval Keshtcher: will understand What are your needs? You will say OK,
00:17:56
Yuval Keshtcher: I want to. I don't know. I want to to
00:17:58
Yuval Keshtcher: take my bikes to the mountains So we will give
00:18:00
Yuval Keshtcher: you mountain bikes and you will know how to sell
00:18:03
Yuval Keshtcher: it aggressively also.
00:18:07
Yuval Keshtcher: And then you buy the bikes
00:18:10
Yuval Keshtcher: and now you actually need to use that.
00:18:13
Yuval Keshtcher: And you go for an older sibling or a parent
00:18:17
Yuval Keshtcher: or a good friend and they teach you how to
00:18:19
Yuval Keshtcher: use them.
00:18:21
Yuval Keshtcher: And when they teach you how to use the bike,
00:18:23
Yuval Keshtcher: it's
00:18:24
Yuval Keshtcher: completely different tone, right? It's more educational.
00:18:28
Yuval Keshtcher: Small about, uh, patients.
00:18:31
Yuval Keshtcher: Clerical is important. Being instructional is important and and so on.
00:18:36
Yuval Keshtcher: So in this specific example, the metaphor here is that
00:18:39
Yuval Keshtcher: the copywriter is the salesperson and the you write is
00:18:43
Yuval Keshtcher: the older sibling.
00:18:46
Yuval Keshtcher: Both of them care about you. Both of them want
00:18:48
Yuval Keshtcher: you to use the bike at the end of the day,
00:18:50
Yuval Keshtcher: but they will have different methodologies to communicate with you
00:18:56
Yuval Keshtcher: about the end of the day. They copyrighted,
00:19:01
Yuval Keshtcher: supposed to work with you all the way into your transaction,
00:19:05
Yuval Keshtcher: but the you decide to catch you in that transaction
00:19:08
Yuval Keshtcher: all through the onboarding process, and they they need to
00:19:10
Yuval Keshtcher: communicate with you, the onboarding, how to use it. So
00:19:15
Yuval Keshtcher: eventually you would actually end up using the product and
00:19:17
Yuval Keshtcher: not take your new mount expensive mountain bike and leave
00:19:22
Yuval Keshtcher: them in your garage, right? Because then it's not good
00:19:25
Yuval Keshtcher: for the company because the company would want to sell
00:19:28
Yuval Keshtcher: you more wheels in the future. Or maybe you you
00:19:31
Yuval Keshtcher: would like to upgrade in the future so you'll buy
00:19:32
Yuval Keshtcher: one more set of bikes.
00:19:34
Yuval Keshtcher: So it's in their intention, so you would actually end
00:19:36
Yuval Keshtcher: up using the
00:19:37
Saikat Pyne: product. So you write that in some ways the voice
00:19:40
Saikat Pyne: of the company, right when somebody is using that for
00:19:43
Saikat Pyne: somebody who might not have a lot of understanding of
00:19:46
Saikat Pyne: brand to brand voice, and they're trying this for the
00:19:49
Saikat Pyne: first time, how can they ensure that their UX writing
00:19:53
Saikat Pyne: aligns with the company's brand and messaging strategy?
00:19:57
Yuval Keshtcher: I wouldn't bother do too much about it and again.
00:20:01
Yuval Keshtcher: It depends on the brand, but if it's like an
00:20:03
Yuval Keshtcher: Ecommerce store, it's definitely need to be on brand. When
00:20:07
Yuval Keshtcher: I talked about the overlap between copyrighting and you, so
00:20:10
Yuval Keshtcher: the overlap is, I don't know, emails can be an
00:20:12
Yuval Keshtcher: overlap because sometimes are very informal. It's sometimes they're very transactional.
00:20:19
Yuval Keshtcher: That copyright, the E eCommerce stores. So it's in to experience.
00:20:25
Yuval Keshtcher: But it's tried to sell so, like, kind of an overlap.
00:20:29
Yuval Keshtcher: But yeah, when we talked about voice and tone in
00:20:32
Yuval Keshtcher: digital app er, I think before everything else, it's important
00:20:37
Yuval Keshtcher: to define some kind of an internal constant stand guard
00:20:41
Yuval Keshtcher: to try to Nat naturally understand what works, what don't
00:20:45
Yuval Keshtcher: work and build systems based on the things that work
00:20:55
Yuval Keshtcher: and use them.
00:20:58
Yuval Keshtcher: You have many different ways to define the voice and
00:21:00
Yuval Keshtcher: tone of your brand marketing team is doing it in
00:21:03
Yuval Keshtcher: a great way, and I'm going back to my bicycle example.
00:21:07
Yuval Keshtcher: So
00:21:10
Yuval Keshtcher: you need to define the tone of the marketing
00:21:13
Yuval Keshtcher: area of the brand, but also you need to define
00:21:16
Yuval Keshtcher: the tone of the product area of the brand
00:21:20
Yuval Keshtcher: right. There is a very famous content design system that
00:21:23
Yuval Keshtcher: is often sourced you can Google it American app. I
00:21:28
Yuval Keshtcher: don't know if you need to mention, but they have
00:21:33
Yuval Keshtcher: for different companies to the mail have a lot of.
00:21:39
Yuval Keshtcher: So they have the design system, which
00:21:42
Yuval Keshtcher: shows how they use the voice and toning with different
00:21:47
Yuval Keshtcher: brands of into it.
00:21:49
Yuval Keshtcher: And that's a very good example of, uh, structuring your
00:21:52
Yuval Keshtcher: voice and tone of
00:21:54
Yuval Keshtcher: an empty price. And at the end of the day,
00:21:56
Yuval Keshtcher: when you
00:21:58
Yuval Keshtcher: dive deep into it, there's a lot of similarities there.
00:22:00
Yuval Keshtcher: It's not that different from each other, like it's about
00:22:03
Yuval Keshtcher: being clear.
00:22:05
Yuval Keshtcher: It's about sometimes it's technical stuff like, How do we
00:22:08
Yuval Keshtcher: write dates and how do we write numbers?
00:22:12
Yuval Keshtcher: But sometimes it's stuff that's a bit more holistic, like,
00:22:14
Yuval Keshtcher: How do we tell the news
00:22:16
Yuval Keshtcher: and and which kind of tone do we use? Whether
00:22:19
Yuval Keshtcher: we write an message,
00:22:21
Yuval Keshtcher: how can we be helpful and so on?
00:22:25
Yuval Keshtcher: Yeah, there was that many brands could relate to each other,
00:22:29
Yuval Keshtcher: for instance, like I am pretty sure that, uh, your
00:22:32
Yuval Keshtcher: FINTECH company will check the open source content design system, uh,
00:22:38
Yuval Keshtcher: of into it there. There's going to be a lot
00:22:40
Yuval Keshtcher: of things that you can actually end up using within
00:22:42
Yuval Keshtcher: your own products as well.
00:22:44
Saikat Pyne: I'll definitely check it out.
00:22:46
Yuval Keshtcher: Check it out. Just the material designed by Google that
00:22:49
Yuval Keshtcher: is used by I don't know,
00:22:51
Yuval Keshtcher: thousands of product teams around the world to design something
00:22:55
Yuval Keshtcher: that is open source.
00:22:56
Saikat Pyne: Lovely. Thank you so much for being on the show.
00:22:58
Saikat Pyne: You all really appreciated your time.
00:23:01
Yuval Keshtcher: Thank you. Say God, it was amazing to be here. And, uh,
00:23:04
Yuval Keshtcher: if anyone want to reach out unlink feel free. If
00:23:07
Yuval Keshtcher: you have any questions about you, I'd love to answer
00:23:10
Saikat Pyne: guys. All the links that you all mentioned would be
00:23:13
Saikat Pyne: in the show description. Check out your exciting hub as well.
00:23:22
Saikat Pyne: Thank you for tuning into the U Incorporated podcast with me. Second,
00:23:26
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00:23:43
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00:23:46
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