How do Content Creators make Money? Ft. Aditi Srivastava

[00:00:00] Thanks Aditi for being on our show Wiping Out The Norm. Really excited to chat with you

[00:00:10] today because just before the show we were speaking on how you have grown from one company

[00:00:15] to a conglomerate now which has been acquired by Saragama recently. So really excited to

[00:00:21] know your journey specifically as to how you have wiped out the norm in the media

[00:00:25] industry and grown the company from like you said even of the first one to start but you

[00:00:31] were the fastest one to grow. So I would really like to know as to what got your interest into

[00:00:37] the media industry to begin with.

[00:00:38] Hey Radhika, thank you so much for having me it's lovely to be here. So I'll start

[00:00:46] from the beginning. I grew up in the Middle East actually they didn't grow up in India

[00:00:51] but when you grow up in the Middle East you're very much into all Indian things. Right and so

[00:00:57] right we were very much into Bollywood movies and plays and things like that musical shows and

[00:01:03] used to when growing up so I think that has just been an inherent interest of me my family etc.

[00:01:10] I moved to the US to do my undergrad in engineering at Princeton. I studied electrical

[00:01:16] and computer science and when I was graduating which was 2006 the financial markets were booming

[00:01:25] and I started my career on Wall Street very much like many other people at that time.

[00:01:31] So again very different I went into Goldman Sachs's asset management group which is called G

[00:01:38] Sam in New York and actually I was in that quant group so we were making like algorithms

[00:01:44] for trading and portfolio management etc. It was super fun. I thought you would say super boring

[00:01:52] but no honestly I love the fact that I started my career at a place where training and just

[00:02:02] you know the forward thinking thought process was ingrained in us basically as you know in

[00:02:11] Goldman and in such a large place also I was very lucky to have like a very amazing team.

[00:02:18] I'm still in touch with them so every time in New York every time I'm in New York we grab lunch or

[00:02:23] dinner together and I think it taught me a lot about how I work. So for me I think that was

[00:02:31] a very fun place to be and I got to marry you know what I had studied in college with the

[00:02:37] dynamism of financial markets and actually it's a very very interesting mix and so I honestly loved

[00:02:46] it. While I was in New York I also got involved in a bunch of whatever extracurricular activities

[00:02:53] things on the side so I was part of this group called the American India Foundation.

[00:03:00] What that group did was basically get high net with individuals in the US to

[00:03:05] basically send money to or partner with not-for-profits in India across sectors like you know sometimes

[00:03:14] it was about education or it was healthcare or it was waste management across sectors

[00:03:20] and our job I was on their young professionals board was to basically research and find the

[00:03:26] best organizations to take to the high net worth individuals and present them about why

[00:03:33] you know you should put money or money here what impact it will create etc and I really started

[00:03:38] loving that work so that's where my interest in developmental work started and I'm mentioning

[00:03:45] that because on the side Ashwin who's my co-founder and also my I was dating him then and then

[00:03:52] we got married while he was still in New York. He on the side while he was at city

[00:03:58] also in banking he got involved in film festivals in New York so the Rebecca film

[00:04:05] festival South Asian film festival all of that just out of passion. So these were the

[00:04:10] things we were doing on the side with the community right in New York and that's where

[00:04:15] the media bug came in from and Anirudhu is my third co-founder he was at he went to

[00:04:23] Wharton during this time he was also engineer turned banker right so basically we have very similar

[00:04:31] upbringings we have very similar degrees and we have very similar first you know work experiences

[00:04:39] but all three of us have very different thought processes as well and I think that's why we

[00:04:42] make a very good yeah so long story short when Ashwin and I decided we love these other

[00:04:50] things more than our day jobs that was when we were like okay can we pursue this kind of stuff

[00:04:56] full time and where would we do this right so both if you think of development and you think of media

[00:05:04] and you're Indian you do think of coming to India to do this right because development work

[00:05:10] also there's so much here that is going on media of course Bollywood is a completely

[00:05:14] different industry than say a Hollywood and so we decided in 2011 that we will quit our jobs

[00:05:23] move to India and do these different crazy things this was just you and Ashwin just me and Ashwin

[00:05:29] Anirudhu was at Wharton at this time okay and so we moved much to the dismay and horror of

[00:05:36] her parents who are like you know middle class parents they had worked their entire lives to

[00:05:41] get us to the US to these amazing you're working in Manhattan I mean it doesn't get better than that

[00:05:46] right when you're coming from like a middle class upbringing but I think they gave us those strong

[00:05:51] foundations which we could then take risks yeah you know because we had that backing right so

[00:05:58] we moved to India and I started working in Aavishkar in telecap it's a impact investment group

[00:06:04] how did you start there so I while I was still in New York when we had quit I was applying I was

[00:06:11] looking for what jobs in this sector I could get everything from this organization Aavishkar in

[00:06:17] telecap to a acumen fund to a will grow which is a Chennai based kind of not-for-profit to

[00:06:26] Dasra which is another not-for-profit um this attracted me the most because this was

[00:06:31] marrying capital markets which is investing with development and impact investing was not a very

[00:06:36] well-known word then even now even though the movement is huge lots of random people don't

[00:06:43] know what is impact investment so I applied and interviewed and basically got an offer

[00:06:52] to start an angel network which will invest into early stage

[00:06:58] for profit companies that were looking at low-cost education healthcare clean energy etc so again very

[00:07:06] interesting because I was working in capital markets in Goldman yeah I was doing this not-for-profit

[00:07:12] kind of angel work angel investing work at the foundation I was part of here I was getting

[00:07:18] to marry the two right and so I moved to India to do this and Ashwin moved and started with

[00:07:25] reliance entertainment okay so um you know they have he was involved in some of the movies like

[00:07:32] at that time commando and like some of those kind of movies supers they were doing

[00:07:37] and then he along with his reliance uh entertainment you know man boss at that

[00:07:43] time this very nice woman who gave him a break called Priti Shani they moved to

[00:07:49] times of India to set up Jami pictures which will which is now times of India studio

[00:07:54] which has done some amazing movies like talwar and dildhar kendo etc so his journey and film

[00:08:00] and mainstream studios started when we moved to India and I was setting up this angel network

[00:08:06] and having a great time it was a lovely introduction to Bharat because I was literally traveling all

[00:08:14] over the country trying to find the businesses on the ground that were doing this work

[00:08:19] and then taking those businesses to buildings like these where you know kind of the angel

[00:08:25] investors are and get and matching them so that's what I was doing um then again after a few years

[00:08:33] of doing that I set up a team that was very independent we had made about 21 investments

[00:08:38] okay um in four years then basically pocket aces were set up during this time anirudh

[00:08:45] had moved from cotton to india how did pocket aces get set up so basically um after working for a

[00:08:52] couple of years with reliance and with times of india ashwin felt that he was ready to

[00:08:58] basically go out on his own and um he felt that the kind of stuff he wanted to make he

[00:09:05] knew now enough writers and people who would work with us independently to make that stuff

[00:09:12] so it was a plunge we incorporated pocket aces in december 2013 okay so it's going to be 10 years

[00:09:19] of from our incorporation next month and um initially it was actually very few people know

[00:09:24] this set up as a film studio um making feature films and what we realized then is although

[00:09:33] he had a good network of people when you're trying to make a feature film you need somebody to

[00:09:37] finance you need it for that you need an actor to say yes for that you need a director to say

[00:09:43] yes for that you need it so it was lots of things that needed to happen in sequence every project

[00:09:49] took could take any amount of time to set up like there was no it depended on when people said

[00:09:56] yes or no yeah and one thing we learned in the in that time was that in this industry a lot

[00:10:02] of people don't say yes but they also don't say no so you're constantly hopeful yeah you know and

[00:10:11] so the first year i think of setting up pocket pocket aces was a little frustrating because

[00:10:16] while we felt that we were making progress like you would not we never got to making a film at

[00:10:22] that time yeah uh because we never got to a place where all the ducks were got in line yeah and so

[00:10:29] then we decided that okay we need to think of doing something differently where there's more control

[00:10:35] in our own hands and that's when we brainstormed and this whole let's do digital first yeah kind

[00:10:44] of idea came especially starting with short form content because for that you can just put

[00:10:50] your own money because it's very cheap to create how short is it so this is the first few

[00:10:56] filter copy videos if some of you guys have watched then it's like three minute content four

[00:11:01] minute content and at that time we were it was completely bootstrapped like even though actually

[00:11:07] we had managed to raise our first round of angel investment okay again giving our backgrounds

[00:11:13] you know all that and we were connected in the yeah you already invested ecosystem

[00:11:18] so a very nice man by the name of mohan mulani who is obviously our first ever backer

[00:11:26] you know he uh he's the guy who founded harry's which is the bar chain and then sold it to a

[00:11:33] private equity and that's how he made his you know kind of capital so he you know had given us

[00:11:39] this first half a million dollar check um but these were 10 000 rupee shoots that we were

[00:11:44] doing initially okay and we started releasing that content out on facebook because again having

[00:11:51] grown up in college years in the us we were very we were like one of the first users of facebook in

[00:11:56] the world uh prince didn't was the second school facebook had launched in ever right like it was

[00:12:03] harvard and then prince didn't and so we were very familiar with the platform and what we hoped is

[00:12:09] that if nobody else shares it at least our friends will share it right and that's how it'll start

[00:12:15] circulating because basically what you need for content is you put it out but you need people

[00:12:20] to watch it yeah so you need distribution and organic distribution if your friends are sharing it

[00:12:27] then their friends are sharing it then their friends are sharing it that's the easiest way to get

[00:12:30] distribution that much we understood right and so basically that's how we started our journey

[00:12:36] of short form content and within the first couple of months it just blew up when you say

[00:12:42] we meaning you also joined darshan then so when we pivoted to digital then i joined pocket

[00:12:48] this is because then we figured that we needed volume of content see in feature film you make

[00:12:54] you can make one or two a year so you don't need volume you don't need many people yeah it's a

[00:13:00] very boutique kind of thing you maybe have five full-time people and then you just work with

[00:13:05] freelancers on projects but it's when you pivot to now building a business that will create

[00:13:11] volume content yeah you need people you need structures you need processes etc and so by that

[00:13:18] time i had already set up my whole angel network we had also expanded to east africa and stuff

[00:13:23] and so i was also thinking okay i can help these guys like now i have time and obviously ashrin

[00:13:29] and i did have that discussion that do we want to work together you know it can get complicated

[00:13:34] but i think because we had a third partner in anirut i ended anirut doing

[00:13:40] he joined right in the beginning he came from whaton and we were like hi oh you're doing this with us

[00:13:44] basically yeah and why did you think that he'll be a good fit for the business so it's a good

[00:13:51] question see i think uh when he competed whaton he was looking for a hedge fund or private equity

[00:13:59] jobs because again he had been in banking and private equity before whaton but at that time

[00:14:05] jobs were not so easy to find and for people who needed a visa in the us so he was looking but then

[00:14:13] he was not able to you know get something that he really liked so he moved to india to look for

[00:14:19] jobs in finance okay in that time i think we kind of were like yeah you can do this with us

[00:14:28] because it would be like exciting and he is also a big content buff okay and so the idea was that

[00:14:35] you want somebody that you can brainstorm with at that time it's more that and and that who has a

[00:14:43] different kind of maybe skill set yeah uh than you do and although on paper we sound very similar

[00:14:53] we are all very different people in like one is very big picture thinker one is like very good

[00:15:00] at predicting power and strategy and stuff and one is great at execution yeah and so together we felt

[00:15:07] that we could make a good team and ashram and ani have been college roommates they have started a few

[00:15:13] things including a cricket team in college together okay so they have worked together in in a sense

[00:15:21] and i know anirudh from school so we so this is all like a beautiful coincidence right these

[00:15:27] relationships so even though ashram and i are married we are the youngest relationship between

[00:15:32] the three of us i know anirudh since seventh standard anirudh and ashram have been roommates in

[00:15:38] scottage okay and then ashram and i only met me when we were working in new york yeah how did you

[00:15:43] all meet common friends including anirudh okay yeah exactly and so the thing is that somehow it

[00:15:50] just felt right and i think one advice that i always give people who want to start their

[00:15:57] businesses is that please don't be a single founder i think it's a very lonely journey yeah so if you

[00:16:03] don't have somebody else who's also losing sleep on the same thing that you are losing sleep on

[00:16:11] i think it's tough and if you you know however you how much ever you brainstorm with

[00:16:16] a mentor or friends or family it's just not the same so having somebody together with

[00:16:23] the ride is amazing and so i think yeah i just fit i don't think that ashram and anirudh thought

[00:16:31] about it so much that we want to work together it was very natural yeah let's try it yeah yeah

[00:16:36] you know um yeah that's what happens and then you started with the short form content

[00:16:42] when the feature films were in so we started with short form content and this whole journey

[00:16:49] has been that now we're actually working on our first feature film is it yeah so wow yeah and of

[00:16:54] course in the middle we've built a lot of different types of formats right so now we do everything from

[00:17:00] short form which is like 30 second to one minute content which is like instagram content

[00:17:05] okay tiktok content to what is the content usually about uh so we have multiple channels

[00:17:11] right we have uh short form fiction is filter copy which is mainly entertainment funny

[00:17:18] entertainment content like light watches okay then we have in short form we have a food channel called

[00:17:24] gobble which does food content we have a channel called nutshell which does info entertainment so

[00:17:29] these two are nonfiction okay and then we have long-form fiction in dice media which does content

[00:17:35] for its own youtube channel but also for your streaming otd platforms okay like your

[00:17:41] netflix amazon hotstar etc okay and we also have a talent management arm yeah and then of course

[00:17:48] we also build a gaming yeah business which is now spun off loco into a separate entity

[00:17:54] wow so many different businesses like you started with which one see i'll tell you

[00:18:00] we don't think about it in terms of so many different business i'll tell you how we think about

[00:18:05] it at the end of the day the idea why we started pocket aces was as young people we felt that there

[00:18:13] was not enough content that was being made for young people to watch because tv caters mostly

[00:18:19] to the older women demographic with their fiction programming uh for men even on tv it's

[00:18:25] basically like sports and news for youth there's like the mtvs of the world just that right there's not

[00:18:33] much else so we felt that everyone has a smartphone right and of course with the onset of geo telecom

[00:18:41] as a coming in as a telecom this became hundred x the story but even before geo it was like at

[00:18:47] least in urban centers everybody had a smartphone everybody can afford data wi-fi is

[00:18:54] there in like all offices and so the idea was that as a young person you have the ability to watch

[00:19:00] but you don't have programming for yourself so can be the people who make content for young

[00:19:06] Indians by young Indian yeah that was the initial thought process we wanted to see good content right

[00:19:11] and that's how we started and then when you start with a complete audience focus

[00:19:19] then you think yeah the same guy like se radhika radhika also likes fiction she also she wakes up

[00:19:26] in the morning she scrolls on instagram so i want to be there also then when she's commuting maybe

[00:19:31] she is listening to a podcast so i want to be in audio also then maybe when she is uh basically

[00:19:38] in the office when she takes a break maybe she watches something on youtube or she's scrolling

[00:19:42] again on instagram yeah then when she goes home she's probably sitting and like what she wants to

[00:19:47] watch a web series so the same audience set okay they all you're also listening to music you maybe

[00:19:54] also follow a sport you also probably you know read articles so if i want to cater to you yeah

[00:20:01] as an as a persona and then many people like you right but somebody else sitting right next

[00:20:07] you could have a completely different persona they might spend a lot more time say e-commerce shopping

[00:20:13] even though the demographic and etc might be the same yeah so we don't think anymore in gender age

[00:20:18] and this geography we think in persona right which is basically interests so then why should

[00:20:25] i only give you one thing then i'm going to give you everything you probably also follow a bunch

[00:20:29] of influencers so i also want to get you influencers right right so that's how we think

[00:20:35] about what and if you're a guy like more often than girls and you know just that's just the data we see

[00:20:42] 100% you're into some kind of gaming right today gaming is huge yeah and so the idea was if i'm

[00:20:49] anyway reaching you why should i only command 15 minutes of your time a day i'm anyway reaching

[00:20:55] you i can cater to your interests all day long today content consumption is like

[00:21:03] so best a rat talk it's a continuous day and that's that's the idea yeah and so everything is

[00:21:10] from the lens of what does our audience wants and obviously our audience is broadly i would say

[00:21:17] 18 to 40 okay the focus is 25 to 35 um and because of who we are like we started metro first

[00:21:28] because we are we grew up in urban centers we understand that audience more and then basically

[00:21:34] expanded around the metro centers okay two tier one and tier two as well so if you look our content

[00:21:41] will reflect those kind of families those kind of thought process like there's a lot about mental

[00:21:46] health there's a lot like little things which became a huge series is about live in relationship

[00:21:51] right now obviously live in relationship in india is not very common but the idea was

[00:21:59] that two people who are very comfortable with each other these are the things they talk about

[00:22:04] yeah all about the little things of on a daily basis normal couple's life is not a big thing

[00:22:10] on a daily basis right so that was the idea okay which people really related to and the

[00:22:15] live in part became aspiration so everything is very much driven by audience insights and that is

[00:22:22] i believe like one of the biggest right to wins we have given our backgrounds where it comes from

[00:22:29] engineering or finance etc that's the thing we have gotten to media right uh the culture of

[00:22:37] our company which is very different from other media companies even media startup yeah the data

[00:22:43] thought process and of course everything is within timeline vision budget completely

[00:22:48] cashless company this is our right to win right it's not like we were the best creative minds

[00:22:54] but now the best creative minds work with us absolutely but tell me one thing that after

[00:22:57] long form content how did you suddenly jump into food like gobble how did that happen

[00:23:04] as you know again the thought process is that if your consumer if your audience member

[00:23:10] which is like a young person youth of india yeah if youth of india is consuming different types of

[00:23:16] things in parallel you better make different things okay yeah you just wanted to command that time

[00:23:20] or exactly so it's not that one day we're making websites and the other day we're making food

[00:23:25] and all this is going on in parallel yeah yeah yeah right so the different content teams that are

[00:23:30] working on different channels and you're buying loyalty also from your consumers saying that

[00:23:34] okay we give you everything you need exactly and when people are becoming super popular from our

[00:23:41] content we're also managing them helping them grow those talent yeah grow their own instagram

[00:23:47] channels right so technically like pocket races owns uh say five instagram channels okay but we

[00:23:57] also manage 130 influencers with 130 separate instagram channels many of them are on youtube

[00:24:04] many of them are on snapchat yeah so just imagine technically our distribution footprint includes

[00:24:10] those as well and a huge part of why they come to us is because we know how to grow these

[00:24:16] distribution yeah and today as you also know for any influencer what is your followership what

[00:24:21] is your reach is the main way you are measured yeah how much somebody wants to pay you correct right

[00:24:28] so say if a brand wants to associate with you and say you are big on linkedin yeah how big you

[00:24:34] are on linkedin will command how much followership they can pay you yeah right it for that engagement

[00:24:42] correct similarly that's for you know influencers whatever platform they are on and we know how

[00:24:48] to grow those and so that's the biggest reason why they would come to somebody like us versus going

[00:24:54] to a traditional talent management you know who manage like A-listers and all yeah but they don't

[00:25:01] have a crack record process is very different because alia bhart people are not coming to alia

[00:25:06] bhart because of her instagram followers yeah people are coming to alia bhart because she's

[00:25:10] anyway an icon yeah right and they want to associate her brand with their brand with her

[00:25:16] of course that instagram following to grow karegi he you know vote on given hey right but here it's

[00:25:22] like your followership first and then of course so you're a content creator so you content strategy

[00:25:28] ka uni chee yeah yeah wo bhi hum karte with the talent that we manage tell me about your

[00:25:33] investor joining us there one of them was the an angel investor yeah and then how did you

[00:25:38] raise your first institutional round um well i think sequoia 314 capital these guys have been

[00:25:46] very early partners they came into our series uh a very small series a that we raised um and

[00:25:54] in 2016 oh right in the beginning only yeah and the idea was i think the good thing we did is

[00:26:01] we went to these people early okay so they started tracking us early yeah i think of the day we had

[00:26:05] our first viral video we like you know wrote to a few funds being like oh look right and the good

[00:26:11] thing is you get on their radar yeah and then they track progress right um sequoia did something very

[00:26:17] interesting where they were having a hackathon yeah and they said okay fine we want to test

[00:26:22] whether this actually works uh to convert from viewership to roi for a brand right so we they

[00:26:30] said okay make a video for our hackathon k registrations because last year we had x we want to

[00:26:37] have 2x registration um we made a photocopy video called every software engineer ever and the hackathon

[00:26:45] was integrated okay in the messaging of that video yeah and i think they got 5x the number of

[00:26:50] registrations if i don't uh if i recall correctly what a way to test by getting free leads

[00:26:56] and no and they paid us for it oh they did yeah they were very professional about it they said you're

[00:27:01] making a video you're listening whether we invest or not is a separate thing yeah yeah yeah we'll pay

[00:27:04] you for it okay uh like a brand thing it was a paid trial absolutely it was a paid video we were

[00:27:10] very happy to do it and so yeah i think that's a fun that's one of the fun stories i think

[00:27:15] you know the challenge we've had with raising capital has been that media is not very well

[00:27:23] understood by the VC community yeah and media media tech all of this is just built in the

[00:27:29] VC community in the last 10 years yeah and uh you know i do feel that the platform business

[00:27:37] makes it at least justifiable because the VC model works when you want to keep raising capital

[00:27:42] again and again and again yeah because that's how the valuations will increase if you don't

[00:27:47] need that much capital then the VC model is you know it doesn't play out in the normal way that

[00:27:53] it's supposed to right so i think uh we were very lucky that we got investors who trusted us in that

[00:28:00] model but then they were also patient yeah uh right in that okay you know this is a different kind of

[00:28:05] a VC business and of course those same investors have invested in very uh you know kind of

[00:28:11] exponentially growth type of businesses they have also invested in more offline type of

[00:28:16] businesses as well right so we are somewhere in the middle because the consumer journey for us was

[00:28:21] exponentially growing yeah yeah right uh and revenue was also exponentially going yeah but

[00:28:27] that's why you don't need capital so capital need was not exponentially growing so it's a very

[00:28:32] interesting uh uh setup but when of course then when we uh launched loco which was in early 2018

[00:28:40] then of course it became that itself is a very easy to understand but what was the need to raise

[00:28:45] capital back then when you already had high growth you were shared because you wanted that you

[00:28:50] you're still investing in creating content now okay imagine you're on your short form channel

[00:28:54] 70 80 percent of your content is editorial yeah which is what we call a piece which is just

[00:28:59] created by ourselves for not for a brand etc so because that the key to good distribution

[00:29:08] is that and if you follow any influencer you'll see the same thing you have to keep your audience

[00:29:13] engaged yeah every day you have to release something yeah so that you need people okay

[00:29:20] people's salary you know so basically it's content production uh people and growth we've never put

[00:29:29] money into buying views we've never put money into like buying followership and all you create

[00:29:34] content the views will come and the followership will come got it so the investment has been

[00:29:38] into people and communication understood right and of course some bit of marketing PR all of that

[00:29:44] kind of stuff how did you do that initially initially so it's all content only which is your

[00:29:50] marketing also your PR also but then men are like our series started blowing up we did do billboards

[00:29:55] we did radio campaigns we did college campaigns we did corporate park campaigns where we took our

[00:30:04] talent you know and people would go crazy in colleges and that's when you know that you're

[00:30:10] really touching the right chord you know like we would take some of our actors and people

[00:30:16] would go nuts forget about that you know we do a lot of first-hand audience insights we even call

[00:30:23] people i have also done calls by myself ashrin and we all have you say i'm filter copy i'm somebody

[00:30:30] from filter copy people go crazy on the other side really yeah because it's like a loved brand

[00:30:38] has called them like who would have thought yeah right and so i think that's how we did a lot of your

[00:30:44] PR and marketing and of course partnering with events yeah um you know sponsoring some events

[00:30:50] you know you know all of that kind of stuff is well on ground stuff you know we've put up

[00:30:56] gobble trucks in bkc flea that kind of stuff is what it good yeah yeah nice interesting and like you

[00:31:04] said that most of your revenue comes from the brands okay just for the benefit of audience give us

[00:31:11] a rough figure of how much brands pay for first the otts like when they buy your content to

[00:31:18] influence or promote their campaign and to you also like when you integrate their brand on your

[00:31:25] youtube channel so basically it depends on the kind of content as well so say instagram reels content right

[00:31:33] uh say uh uh nutshell reel will self-assay two lakhs right so most brands will buy in bulk

[00:31:41] right okay a filter copy music reel right where we create like a rap music reel type of a thing

[00:31:48] will self-assay like 10 lakhs a filter copy video on youtube which is a three to five minute will be

[00:31:54] about 18 to 20 lakhs how many subscribers do we have on filter copy youtube filter copy youtube 10

[00:31:59] million okay wow that's the level but you know the thing is it's not just about the subscribers

[00:32:05] it's about the viewership that you promise yeah right and uh that's how so when a brand invests right

[00:32:13] they do something called a media evaluation okay which is basically whatever are the deliverables

[00:32:19] they put certain cost per view cost per impression cost per reach and that's how they justify it

[00:32:25] internally there is a cost per engagement kind of model that we try to sell because you know

[00:32:31] the kind of content we do is highly engaged and a view which is engaged versus a view which is not

[00:32:37] engaged is very different um right how do you measure engagement comments comments shares

[00:32:45] retention as well yeah so see say youtube counts a view as 30 seconds view so say in my video people

[00:32:54] dropped off after 45 seconds in your video they stayed till three minutes you can't say that

[00:32:59] the views are equally valuable yeah correct your views will be much more valuable so filter copy

[00:33:05] all our channels are retention is like 95 percent wow right and so the key is that how do you factor

[00:33:12] that into the price yeah that's why basically we say our engagement is high so the cost per view

[00:33:19] should be high okay that's one way to that's one way to factor it in but how do you

[00:33:25] like you said 10 lakh for one say music real yeah but you have such high engagement why not more

[00:33:33] like how did you come to the number 10 lakh see again it's like a triangulation yeah of

[00:33:40] a what a brand is willing to what a what a brand is willing to pay for that kind of content

[00:33:46] uh be the media value that it can give you um see what it takes to pick you know um

[00:33:56] i think it's a triangulation of these things we are premium priced in every format that we do

[00:34:02] okay so if somebody else has their music real we are we are all priced higher than them if somebody

[00:34:08] else has a three to five music uh filter like a youtube video we are priced higher than them

[00:34:12] mostly we are priced premium also because we are catering to urban centers which are premium yeah

[00:34:18] compared to you know say tier two tier three centers got it so all of this stuff is baked in

[00:34:25] and you also don't want to be changing pricing in every conversation yeah because then that really

[00:34:32] slows down your sale right you have to be sure that this is the short form content is a volume

[00:34:37] business and so the menu card approach works very well right he literally yet

[00:34:43] Nikai yet Nikai that's why i'm even comfortable to say it on camera because none of these numbers

[00:34:46] are private numbers right and if somebody wants to watch your podcast and then call us we'll

[00:34:52] give them these rates only right so the the menu card approach works very well for ot and for

[00:34:59] safe for web series even in a brand we usually have three tiers there's a uh basically

[00:35:07] brought to you by presented by tier then there's a powered by tier and there's an associate tier

[00:35:13] the deliverables are different for these and hence the costs are different okay uh what are the

[00:35:18] costs like it depends on the series because some series are cheaper to make say it's a couple series

[00:35:25] where mostly you are you know showing home and fewer spaces that's cheaper to make than say

[00:35:31] we made a series for example Brave hearts where it was an army series right or clutch which was

[00:35:40] sports drama or operation mbbs which was completely shot in a in a hospital yeah and things like that

[00:35:48] right so depends on the series as well okay but it's usually like what does it swing from the

[00:35:54] least to the most associate can be anything from 20 to 50 lakhs powered by can be anywhere from 70

[00:36:05] lakhs to one and a half crores and then presented can be anywhere from one and a half crores to three

[00:36:10] crores and then soul if the brand wants to come for the exclusively for the entire series then

[00:36:16] it's more than that more than three crores more than three crores yeah it's not una we don't

[00:36:23] want to make it unaffordable yeah again everything should be justified by ROI right uh and when we do

[00:36:31] similar size series on otd platforms it's a little bit more because again we are not distributing

[00:36:37] air etc uh when we do large series it's obviously a lot more and that is totally a

[00:36:45] cost plus plus so it's going to cost 15 crores to make this show yeah and then this is our

[00:36:51] margin and so hence that's the budget okay these shows these shows are not like that these shows

[00:36:57] are based on media value those shows are based on the cost of production and what are the margin rates

[00:37:05] usually can be anywhere from 10 15 20 percent okay yeah understood the short the short the

[00:37:12] short of the content the higher the budget okay yeah because again they are paying you a lot for

[00:37:17] the media value yeah but not for the production yeah yeah yeah but for ott there's no media value

[00:37:23] no because they are only going to do it correct correct correct so they put the marketing base

[00:37:27] that from their end they're just paying you for the content understood so the the biggest

[00:37:32] reason like for short form some of our margins are like 80 plus is because we offer that

[00:37:38] distribution but that distribution is just sitting on our platform yeah for us it's free

[00:37:42] yeah free which we built by investing into the editorial content yeah yeah so that's the

[00:37:49] map okay got it my next question in rapid fire we totally lost it oh I forgot it's rapid fire

[00:37:56] and started like answering like sorry we go to rapid fire more yeah yes what would have been an

[00:38:01] alternative career for you I think uh I think the development work that I was doing was super

[00:38:11] fulfilling uh and perhaps that and you know I've gotten that whole development thing to the mission

[00:38:16] of pocket races oh yeah which is to you know influence people positively so yeah I think

[00:38:22] I would have loved to do more development work and yeah okay and who's been your mentor in

[00:38:29] your professional journey so far a few mentors including my first bosses to the founder of

[00:38:38] Aarishkar who was my second boss vini okay uh very very uh like very much in touch even now okay and um

[00:38:49] I would say there's a few other like the women also that I'm inspired by like I wouldn't call it

[00:38:55] a mentorship relationship uh there's a coach I have a leadership coach uh called uh Vigeshri

[00:39:02] Purnishwans she's uh runs her own consulting firm I think she has been amazing so I think

[00:39:07] mentor is a very like is a one word but there are many of these like it takes a village I feel to

[00:39:13] raise an entrepreneur as well yeah and so it's been my ex bosses my coach my and few lots of people

[00:39:20] I'm inspired by yeah that have all contributed to the journey okay parents spouse yeah like yeah

[00:39:28] understood and what's been one decision that you are most proud of I think just getting on this

[00:39:34] journey along with these two co-founders of mine who were friends and um you know spouse and I think

[00:39:42] it was just it's been a really fun and fulfilling ride uh yeah just proud of taking the taking the

[00:39:49] ride with them together yeah and building something of value understood and what is that one thing that

[00:39:57] you think that could have been done a little differently I wouldn't say what you regret

[00:40:02] because that's again a very heavy word and looking at what you said in your last answer

[00:40:07] that you enjoyed your ride I don't regretted anything else that yeah but if you had to go back

[00:40:12] in time what's that one thing you would change slightly like for in the pocket aces uh

[00:40:19] and yeah I know you're doing uh there have been many hard times right and all of those hard

[00:40:27] times have been big lessons I think um last year we had you know we hired too many people

[00:40:37] and then we thought that the market was all going to come back and then it came back slower than it

[00:40:42] did so we had to do a restructuring uh this feb which was the hardest thing I've ever had to

[00:40:50] do in my life which is like asking a bunch of people on the same day to leave I think that

[00:40:56] I would never wish upon anyone and so I wish we had done that differently I think we

[00:41:01] hired too quickly in the hopes of uh you know the market coming back etc I think we should have

[00:41:08] caught ourselves earlier and not done that got it yeah and like you said that you know

[00:41:14] there have been hardships and we learn more from our failures than successes so what's that one

[00:41:20] lesson apart from the one you mentioned along your professional journey that you've learned

[00:41:25] and you've been thankful for you know that experience that okay good that it happened so

[00:41:31] that you could have been saved from it in future well I wouldn't say saved from it but I you know

[00:41:37] you do realize that when the momentum is with you that's when other people will also want to

[00:41:47] back you versus in the hardest times it's actually the hardest to get when you really need people

[00:41:54] then it's actually much harder when you don't need them is when they will come yeah so

[00:42:00] it's a counterintuitive thing that I think we have realized in our journey right so whether

[00:42:05] it's an investor they'll only come when you're already doing well and you don't need money yeah

[00:42:09] right whether it's a person you're trying to hire whether it's so I think that learning

[00:42:16] was very much there and you know initially it would feel you would feel

[00:42:20] very bad about the fact that oh I'm in a hard space right now if you don't back me then who will

[00:42:27] back me but I realize that maybe it's too much to expect and there's nothing personal

[00:42:35] and no hard feelings and we have had investors who have had really had our backs in the hard times

[00:42:43] like the 314 team has just been excellent right and constantly always you know brainstorm with us

[00:42:50] led to new introductions led to our further capital raises etc etc and I feel I have very few people

[00:42:56] who are like that you cannot expect you know most of you most people to ride with you when the

[00:43:04] ride is very tough now I won't expect that anymore so I think that's and I think that's

[00:43:12] what you need to do for your own peace of mind as well and you better get all everything when you

[00:43:16] don't need it yeah so I think that's the learning yeah you know um that's the learning basically

[00:43:24] understood yeah got it and you know if I had to ask you that who's been one of the most influential

[00:43:31] people in your life that you have learned the most from I think influential is in two ways

[00:43:38] one is who has been the most influential almost that you do things for also which is like my parents

[00:43:46] especially my dad I think half my ambition is just in inheritance from he's crazy ambitious

[00:43:53] um and constantly pushing us to do better and so I think a lot comes from there

[00:43:59] and so very influential in my whole path right as a human being um I think I learned to do business

[00:44:08] in India from Vinit okay so I think he has been like a very strong influence what's the one lesson

[00:44:15] you've learned from him to do business in India so many are so many when I came from

[00:44:20] Goldman to here like I didn't know anything um everything from how to approach people to

[00:44:28] how not to lose patience to how to be unreasonable and persistent

[00:44:36] to how to let hardships just smile through it yeah so I think this has been a huge learning

[00:44:42] so I worked with him very closely for like many years okay and he's like a master at structuring

[00:44:47] and things like that as well uh so yeah I think and the work ethic and culture upholding etc

[00:44:56] is from my Goldman bosses they were my first trainers and I think a lot from

[00:45:01] Ashwin Anirudh my co-founders as well yeah and in every day basis I learned from the young

[00:45:05] people in my team because I'm too old now for our own content so I think what young people want

[00:45:11] only young people can tell you in their most authentic fashion so I think our innovation

[00:45:16] comes from bottom up yeah which I think is very key for any company to survive

[00:45:21] um in the coming few years got it girl and what's the definition of success and power for you

[00:45:31] legacy okay this answer I can give you a shot yeah very short people should remember what I did

[00:45:38] and what I built yeah after I am gone okay so I think for me that is it it's not really money

[00:45:45] it's nothing else it's basically like the respect for what you built and it lasts longer than you

[00:45:51] and lastly what's the one last thing that you did for the first time

[00:45:57] oh something recently that I did for the first time yeah well we uh after we announced our deal

[00:46:04] and we took a little 10-day trip we had to go for a friend's wedding to the US

[00:46:09] so after the wedding we went for three days of just hiking just me and Ashwin uh to Utah

[00:46:18] so we did like a three-day just hiking trip wow which was amazing and while we have been hiking

[00:46:24] several times you have never done it like this yeah it was amazing to be like in nature

[00:46:32] you know I've not posted anything from that so I should you should I post very less

[00:46:38] it's enough for I post about work I mean like personal so there's no time now it's the time to

[00:46:44] do it after the acquisition now yeah I don't know absolutely so I think no I'm working equally hard

[00:46:50] or even more yeah it's just on different things so it's great because now I don't have to spend

[00:46:55] time on that I get to spend more time on business right but yes that is it was a really I

[00:47:00] recommend it to everybody yeah yeah okay I love to try to go but and because our show is named

[00:47:08] wiping out the norm just one instance where you think you have wiped out a norm in certain way

[00:47:15] yeah I think at pocket races we have totally wiped out the hierarchy that has is very inherent

[00:47:23] to the media ecosystem the actor is more important than writer is a director is more

[00:47:29] important than writer is more important than producer is more important and blah blah blah

[00:47:34] like we have totally wiped out this norm and it's a very very meritocratic and

[00:47:44] even a spot by boy is given the same respect that like your main actor is given right and so

[00:47:50] we have totally wiped out that norm and I'm very very proud of it because yeah it's that

[00:47:55] caste system of media is something that we just value wise just did not agree with

[00:48:01] that's amazing actually because that's prevalent across your big production houses or studios

[00:48:07] absolutely so it's good to see that you wiped out the norm in a way that I'm sure you might be

[00:48:12] having a lot of women members also in your team yeah like I would say we need more but they have

[00:48:17] a pretty I think we have a 38 percent women across the org need more yeah but again you know it is

[00:48:25] again very meritocratic hiring the you require diverse opinion in every team so I'm not even

[00:48:33] very fond of like all women teams and all because at the end of the day you need an all round

[00:48:38] also you need an all rounded process and I do think you need young old you know male female

[00:48:46] small town metro everything yeah so yeah but I'm very much like it's very very much equal opportunity

[00:48:56] like hiring in the true sense of it yeah on that great note I thank you Aditi for joining us today

[00:49:03] and had a great time discussing all the aspects of your big conglomerate now

[00:49:09] on how do you all function and thanks for explaining to us in detail

[00:49:13] on every count so yeah I enjoyed it and I hope you enjoyed your time with us I did this was it

[00:49:19] was lovely and we went into quite a few details so it was it was quite fun

[00:49:31] thank you for listening to this conversation I hope it allowed you to dive deep into the

[00:49:36] mind of a senior women leader we are hopeful to see more such women leaders in the future who

[00:49:41] have piped up the norm if you love this episode please share it with your friends who might be

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[00:50:07] thank you for listening why we hope this conversation was helpful and allowed you to

[00:50:15] deep dive into the mind of a senior women investor we're certain that we will soon see

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