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[00:00:05] One of my favorite lyrics is from a song called Alaska by Maggie Rogers, in which Maggie sings, I walked off you and I walked off an old me. No truer words have ever been said, or I guess sang. Walking is not only my chosen way to explore a new city, but it's also my version of therapy. Those subtle strides available anywhere and anytime seem to always hit a sweet spot of physical exertion
[00:00:33] that enables processing of hard emotions and purges unneeded mental chatter. Yes, my busy head has needed to walk off a thought or two. How do I feel my feelings? I walk with them. So maybe it was fate that Joao, founder of Walking Mentorship, would cross my path in pursuit of his. Joao is originally from Portugal, but has traveled extensively and considers himself a citizen of the world.
[00:01:01] He is a passionate facilitator of unique walking adventures that combine nature, walking, and mentoring into a tool of self-development. Curious? I was too. Stay tuned. Welcome to the Postcard Travel Show, Joao. Thank you for being here. We're so excited to talk to you today. Where are you joining us from? Well, thank you for having me. I'm talking today actually from home. So I live
[00:01:30] in the countryside, in a wine country, about 50 kilometers north of Lisbon in Portugal. I'm especially excited to talk to you today because I am your target audience. I don't know if you know this, but I have a deep love for walking. My sisters often tease me about, I'm the first one to be like, well, let's just walk there. Let's just walk there. It's right over there. We can just walk.
[00:01:54] And then, I mean, even this morning, I woke up in a funky mood and the sky was gray. And before I could even think, I found myself putting on my sneakers and I was out the door and it was just this innate calling. And it's always been that way since I was a little girl. I just love to walk. So I really understand the deep and wonderful therapy that is walking. But let me ask you, why walking, Joao?
[00:02:21] Well, why not? Why not walking? Because we were born to walk. That's how we, as a species, we conquered the planet. It took so many centuries to be helped by horses, but we've done it literally by walking. So it's in our DNA. It's part of us. So why not walking?
[00:02:45] Why not walking? And you consider yourself a citizen of the world. Let's first talk a little bit more about your background. I do. I do consider myself a citizen of the world because either because of studies or work, I had this incredible opportunity to see a little bit of
[00:03:07] different cultures and countries. And once that process was developing, I really understood that I'm really a citizen of the world, which actually I think we are all citizens of the world, but maybe some of us don't know it yet. We are all part of this beautiful blue planet that happens to have
[00:03:30] these beautiful differences in terms of languages and culture. But deep, deep inside, we are much more alike than what usually we think. I have to agree with that. I had some time living abroad during a chapter of life, and that is really the lesson that I took home was that we are more similar than we're different. Did you ever see yourself professionally walking as a child?
[00:03:56] Well, I think there was a very big temptation to see it myself as such, but it took me a while because my professional life was so different from what I do today in many aspects that I had to mature and be able to combine this, let's say, the walking side of it, which comes from my early age,
[00:04:22] as we first of all, with the family, family walks. And then the mentoring came actually through my corporate life, because for more than 20 years, I was working with people and tried to make them believe that they could be much better than what they think they were. So I think without calling it mentoring, I think that's what I was doing. And then at a certain point in time, it was very natural to
[00:04:47] bring these things together and just put myself available for, you know, whatever the universe was planning for me. I love how you said that it was such a natural and organic evolution, but you're the first person that I have talked to that has combined mentorship with walking. And so it's not so natural to everyone. So tell me a little bit more about why you had such confidence that there was
[00:05:12] something here with mentorship and walking. My very first experience of walking mentorship was about 30 years ago with a friend in a moment of life that I really needed some clarity that took me on a very long walk, about 800 kilometers, six or seven weeks, and gave me, I think, 10 or 12 questions to reflect.
[00:05:40] And an empty book, a notebook. And in the end of this journey, I was a different person. And when I finished, I had very clear in my mind that if I could choose one day, this would be exactly what I wanted to do in life. So I think it was very easy to discover my purpose at a very young age. But I also had to accept
[00:06:07] that I had to be patient to reach what I wanted to reach. So my detour, let's say, of 20-something years in the corporate life, which I'm very grateful, was actually the missing part of the puzzle. And when these things got together, yes, I think I could see myself professionally and personally a walking mentor, as I see today.
[00:06:32] Your research for this before the first program in 2015 included thousands of walks with friends and family. Tell me a little bit more about that. Well, let me say that I'm not sure if it was thousands, but there was many, many, many, many walks. And mainly what I did while I was researching and exploring the idea was pretty much, I think,
[00:06:55] what everybody that has an idea and needs to test it. So you need to make pilots, you need to make mistakes, you need to receive feedback, you need to learn, incorporate these learnings, go again, do less mistakes, improve. And little by little, actually, especially between 2015 and 2017,
[00:07:19] I think these two, three years were absolutely critical. Because when you start something, and you are not sure about what you're doing, I think it's very easy to quit. It's very easy, especially if things don't go exactly the way you want it, or the feedback you receive is not exactly what you expected. And I think this is when your purpose comes to save you. In this case,
[00:07:45] to save me, because I always had very clear in my mind that this is exactly who I am. And I have to accept, even if the feedback is not exactly, you know, what I expect, which fortunately, it was, because it was very positive always. And, you know, when you put these dots together, again, it becomes natural. So all the process in the last eight years have been extremely organic,
[00:08:15] extremely natural. And I'm very grateful for all the lessons learned because they brought me here, and they brought the project here. And today, let's say it's a very mature experience, because of all the feedback that we collected along the years. It's so interesting, as you're talking, it's so true. So many things that you're touching on about
[00:08:39] the human experience of how do we know, you know, what's worth not quitting? And how do we know when to pursue what's in what our inner voice is telling us to keep with? And finding that and knowing that what keeps you from quitting is your purpose. And knowing that purpose is, you know, part of that
[00:09:00] battle, right? And so I think it's wonderful to have your story shared today of how you kept with it, and you just kept walking, essentially toward this grander goal. I have to say, Elizabeth, that I tried many times to quit, but I failed epically. Because when you
[00:09:27] understand that this is the reason why you are here, you can try as many times, but it comes back to you, and usually comes back stronger. So at a certain point, I just had to let it go and accept that despite all the challenges, this is the reason why I'm here. It's a little bit like, you know, when we go out on our walks, and you might think that you are a bit lost, and then suddenly there is
[00:09:55] a sign, a signpost and tells you you are in the right direction, you know, continue. This year's walks take place in Spain and Portugal. How did you pick those specific locations? Well, our programs in walking mentorship, they only take place in Europe. Usually, the countries where we walk the most is, as you said, Portugal and Spain, but also Switzerland,
[00:10:21] Italy, and France. And the reason is actually quite simple. It started from an obvious reason, because these were the places that, in my case, I knew better. So you start from where you feel more confident. And then on the other side, these are locations and geographies that give us a lot of flexibility. So we can operate all year long. So actually, we have programs running from January to
[00:10:47] January. So 12 months. The other angle about choosing the routes is actually about what these routes have to offer already. So of course, we can create new routes. But imagine when we choose a place that is already extremely special, especially because over the centuries, many things happen there, either historical reasons, religion, spiritual, cultural. So you actually kind of have these different
[00:11:13] layers on the programs. And the way I see it is like, these are like doors. So imagine that I put you in a big, big living room with many, many, many doors. And we present you all these doors. And then it's up to you to decide which ones you want to open, when you want to open them. But they are there, they are available. And you can go as deep as you want. So this is the reason why we choose different programs in different
[00:11:40] routes. And we always try to, you know, bring what is already there in terms of local partners, history, cultural language, because it's so rich. And then we create all these different layers that together with the mentoring program, I think it's a pretty unique experience. So I just want to clarify, the opportunity for unlimited doors is available on each trip. Or do you pre-plan where you're like, okay, this is the door that I want to open. So this is the trip that I want to take.
[00:12:10] Well, there is a little bit of both, because some routes are already so rich, that you actually don't have to do much, you just need to know, make it available, explain in different moments. But for instance, we have programs that we need to do a little bit the reverse engineering. For instance, we have a program, we do it once a year, it's a program for parents and kids, it's actually called parents and kids. So you have either a mother or father, and you have son or daughter. So no one is
[00:12:37] fighting for attention, just two from the family. And on this program, actually, we have to put a lot of different dynamics and mechanics along the route that can actually fit with the need, specific need of this target. So it can be both ways. And actually, we never get bored. It doesn't sound boring. No, not at all. I'm curious about the, when you're going to something like
[00:13:01] this, and you're in a situation where you're still like mentorship and walking. And I feel like there's this hesitation, at least on my end of like, well, what does that mean? Like, what are we, is this like, what's going to, what's going to come my way in terms of, you know, quote unquote therapy. And so I like this idea of, you're still the captain of your ship and how deep that you want to go. And you're still in, in the space of agency, correct? Well, it's a very good question. Because
[00:13:30] from the outside, this can be a bit intimidating. Because there are many aspects here, depending on the person, that can take some, some fears, actually. And either some people are more worried about the physical aspect, am I going to be able to do it? I need to carry my backpack, and maybe I will not be able to follow the group. And I don't want to feel, you know, behind or something like that. Some other people might think that this is like therapy, as you said, but let's be very clear.
[00:14:00] This is not therapy. It's a mentoring program. So if there's any therapy happening in the program, it's between you and yourself inside your mind. Because I mean, that doesn't happen in the program. But there is something that I want to reinforce. We have a methodology. We have materials. Actually, our materials is called survival kit, not exactly to survive the walk. Don't worry about that. But
[00:14:24] actually, to survive what happens to you after the walk, all the decisions you want to take. And this survival kit, it's a form of a booklet that we give to each participant, is the structure that helps you to go from the beginning to the end of the program, that you can feel that you are always supported all the time to go through these steps and these exercises. So you will never be in a situation
[00:14:50] that you would say, this is too unstructured. And I don't feel, you know, kind of a grip to take me along the journey. From the other side, you have total freedom if you don't even want to open the booklet throughout the whole week. So you will never be able to say they are forcing me to do something I don't want to do. Because actually, we have a few principles, not really rules, principles.
[00:15:15] And the first principle of our programs is quite interesting, because it states something like you are here because you want. So if you want to follow the methodology, the exercises, great. If you don't, that's also okay, as far as you don't actually become kind of a blockage for other participants. But it's up to you, because each person, they really go through their own process. And each person,
[00:15:42] it's a universe on its own. So we need to respect that, create the conditions that each one can have all the tools to achieve what probably they think they should achieve or they can achieve in that program, and then be there by your side. And I think this is where the mentoring plays a very important role. Because a mentor is someone that not only shares experience, either from its own,
[00:16:08] you know, life, professional, personal, but also carries so many stories, so many experiences from other people. And at any moment, that maybe you feel a little bit more in doubt. It's a very good feeling to have someone by your side, you know, sometimes pick up your hand and say, I'm here with you. And we're going to do this together. It's a good feeling. What are the physical expectations of these journeys? When you sign up, are you I mean, how how fit do you have to be?
[00:16:37] Well, these are programs that have been designed for any person, any healthy person, which means that quite often we receive people in our programs that never ever in their life walked, maybe 10 kilometers straight, never carry a backpack. But I think we are at the level of detail and sophistication of the
[00:17:01] process that we actually allow people to grow along with the program in terms of fitness. And it's a cumulative process. It's scalable. And we pay a lot of attention, obviously, to the type of person that is in the program, because you see, we have three types of mentoring programs for individuals. So it's a one to one experience immersive. We have group programs. And these are usually seven, eight people
[00:17:27] that come from different countries, they don't know each other, and they come for a week together. And we have corporate programs. And all these three programs, before we make either suggestion of destination, or we accept enrollment from the participants or the team in this case, we always take into consideration what is the reality, because then we need to adjust. So this is a program about
[00:17:51] the participant, not about the mentor. So we have, I would say, a lot of flexibility to shorten the distance, amplify the distance, because it really depends. And actually throughout the programs, because we know these routes so well, we even have options, which makes things even more interesting, because the weather can play a very important role. I mean, we don't control the weather,
[00:18:14] and that's very good. And so we can see what the group is asking what each participant is asking, we can see that we can read that information, and then we can adapt. So I think it's very important to say that each group, each person experience, it's absolutely unique, it's unrepeatable. So how many miles, or how many kilometers, and then for those of us in the States, miles a day do
[00:18:40] people walk? Miles? Well, on average, I think we can talk about on average, because as I said, it really depends on the program. We're talking about 15 to 18 kilometers per day. This can vary, meaning that some days we can walk less, some days we can walk more. But you know, it really depends where you are walking, because you see 15 kilometers might sound totally okay if you are walking in flat land, right? But if you are in the Alps, 15 kilometers is a lot of kilometers,
[00:19:10] because the inclination and the height, it's quite big. So this is more or less what you can expect. But as I said, any healthy person can do these programs, any. So 15 kilometers is about nine miles per day. And are you carrying a pack at this point as well? Well, the backpack is a very important item in our programs, because no one carried the backpack for you. You have to carry your own backpack. And the reason why it's actually quite simple,
[00:19:39] I would say, because the first exercise we ask each participant to do when they are preparing their backpack is to look at their backpack as their life. So what you put inside, it's you have to carry. And if it's too heavy, you need to take things out. If it's too light, you might missing something. So there is a very powerful metaphor before the program and during the program, because when you have to carry your backpack, you usually focus on the essentials of your
[00:20:08] life, essentials of your clothing and so on. And you simplify your life. And this is an exercise of simplification. So your backpack is the living proof of, let's say, the overall experience you are during the program. So and you carry your your tent and stuff, correct, on the on your back. And it's it's similar to a normal hiking or expedition. No, actually, no, we don't carry backpacks with sleeping bags and tents. We don't do it. And actually,
[00:20:38] we barely need to carry food. And the reason it's also quite simple. When you are asking so much in terms of mental reflection, psychological reflection, you also need to give away something nice. And here, actually, we try to stay in places that can welcome us either small hotels or private houses or monasteries. So you don't need to carry that extra weight. So actually, you really focus on the
[00:21:05] essentials. So from one side, we ask you, you know, a lot of attention, a lot of depth in your thoughts. From another side, we make, you know, the backpack a little bit lighter, which helps. So we try really to make it as easy as possible that you can focus on the essential. So it's not not really an out like you're not going to the wilderness where you're going to have to then survive off the land. I really appreciate that. I'm from Colorado and the
[00:21:35] States. And in that location, we are especially known for our outdoor rec. And sometimes that keeps me out from hiking is the plan and the preparation that has to go into that. That's why I've fallen in love so much with like walking a city is because I don't have to have that intention of prep and planning that goes into where I'd have to in the wilderness. So you're saying that you're
[00:22:01] facilitating that and where you can just go and walk and focus on on the journey. Yes, focusing on the journey, but at the same time, take all the benefits from an incredible outdoor experience in deep nature. I would say that the majority of our programs are exactly as you said. So we actually take those worries out of the way and we facilitate all that process.
[00:22:26] In few of our programs, because they are so specific, we go more into, let's say, wilderness and actually in autonomy or survival mode if you prefer. But these are very specific programs. I'm just thinking about the program we have. It's called C plus. So this is a program mainly for MDs and CEOs. And actually, we take them for three, four days up in the mountains,
[00:22:52] and we need to carry everything that we're going to eat in those nights, drink and so on. But this is very specific. I would say that 90% of what we do, as I said in the beginning, is for any healthy person, meaning that you have experience, you don't have experience, we'll help you on that. Let's talk a little bit more about a popular walk that is taking place in Costa Vicentina in Portugal. You also have it featured on our postcard website. Tell me a little bit more about it.
[00:23:22] Oh, this is an incredible hidden secret in Europe. So we cannot talk very loud about this. Well, Costa Vicentina is absolutely outstanding coastal route. So this program we do, it's on the coast of Portugal. So south of Portugal, we walk for seven days near the Atlantic, almost almost until the end,
[00:23:47] until the tip of the continent, which is, again, an interesting metaphor. It's a very powerful experience because you are constantly every day listening to something that it's always changing because the ocean is never the same. The trail is extremely beautiful. You still have beautiful landscapes waiting
[00:24:11] for you. And then on top of this, let's say, wallpaper, incredible wallpaper of walking this full week on the coast, you have the exercises that allow you to go time on your own because we have quite often very narrow paths. So actually, you cannot really go all the time in pairs, which is something
[00:24:36] that we do, which means that it makes it very easy for you to spend hours actually with your thoughts, thinking. I would even say walking and meditating because I think walking, it's some sort of meditation for sure. And then when the pets open up a little bit more, then we do some pairing and you have the opportunity to share with another participant. And we do this rotating throughout the week.
[00:25:01] How was your process? What have you find out? And then you listen to a different perspective. And when you do this with people that are so different from each other, actually beautiful things happen. Tell me a little bit more about your flagship program, Destination U. Sure. Well, the Destination U was exactly where everything started. And actually, we could not find
[00:25:25] a better name because this is really a program about finding the best version of yourself. So you are the destination. So this was the program where we started 2015, 2016. And I think it was, I have to say, it's kind of the mothership. So after this program, it was much easier to make declinations of different aspects of this
[00:25:50] program into specific targets. As I said, parents and kids, corporate programs, individual, and so on. We have programs for mental health, for team development, but they all actually got extremely inspired because I think through the first program, Destination U, it became more clear what was the methodology. I think it's very important to tell you that this was a very organic process. You were learning as
[00:26:17] you're doing, and as you were doing, you understand what you were doing. So actually, the whole methodology actually, I would say, surface out of this Destination U, and we continue to use it. So this is a program, Destination U, it's a program we do in the Camino de Santiago in Spain, Costa Vicentina, which I mentioned that we will do in the end of October. Two weeks ago, we were in Via Francigena. It's an incredible
[00:26:43] journey across the Alps between Switzerland and Italy. So, and then we have another program in Portugal, Lines of Tour. So we have four programs that use exactly Destination U, and you are the destination of the program. It's just, that's not a bad destination. Tell me, what are some of the background stories of people that are on these trips? Is everyone in a space of transition? Is everyone,
[00:27:10] where are they in their story when they come to you? It's a great question. I think this is one of the main reasons why five years ago, I started writing a book, which I published last year because I understood that it would be so unfair that I was keeping these stories just for myself. So the book actually explains the process, the methodology, but everything is illustrated with real stories.
[00:27:38] And some of these stories, I think, address exactly that. So what have I seen? And, you know, what I found most interesting, and this is also an act of, it's very humbling. It's to understand that you create the conditions, you hold the space for transformation to happen, but each person will go
[00:28:00] through their very own process where they will get what they probably need and what they can incorporate in that moment into their lives. And this might be very different from the original idea you have inside your mind about this person, you know? So I've seen people that have came to this program and they were looking for very specific, let's say, answers to very specific questions.
[00:28:29] And this can be obviously professionally related, you know, a change of job, change of career, but can also be personal. People that arrive and they have questions about maybe relationships, and here it can be about marriage, but can also be about relationships with your family. But quite often, what I've seen, which is, I think it's very beautiful, is that you come with an idea of a focused question, and this is the starting point of the program. But throughout the program,
[00:28:58] when you start listening to silence, because silence speaks volumes actually, you actually end up quite often understand that the deepest questions you have at the moment are different ones. But they talk, they're very gentle. So you need to create actually the conditions,
[00:29:20] and I would say the silence, so you can listen to them. And when that happens, then you really start your own journey, because you understand that, yes, you are with other people, in case I'm talking about the group program, but this is your own program. And that's why probably it's easy to understand the name, Destination You. I want to read a testimonial from your website,
[00:29:46] talking about your signature program. And this is from a man named called, or a man named Vitor. And I don't know if I'm pronouncing that correctly, but this man said, when I think about this week, I feel very emotional. The experience was as real as my tears of happiness. I understand that this was an immersion into happiness. I don't know why, I can't explain. And maybe it doesn't need an explanation. It was extraordinary what happened this week.
[00:30:13] It's unbelievable. All this nature, the connections, all this brings me back to my childhood. That's the main thing. It's happiness and tears of joy. Thank you for holding this space. What other feedback have you received from these trips? And what is, what evokes in you as you hear that testimonial? Well, well, I was teletransported to the program because I remember perfectly,
[00:30:39] I think the moment when this young man reconnected with this childhood happiness, happy moment. What I can tell you is that usually you end up having a kind of a moment with yourself that you probably understand many things that you know about them for many, many years, probably all your life.
[00:31:07] But it's the level of clarity. You know, the level of clarity is just incredible. It's intense. It's very pure.
[00:31:16] Sure. And what I notice is that I only see maybe, maybe 1% of the transformation, maybe less, because I cannot be inside your heart, your mind. But I'm always impressed by the fact that quite often the feedback arrives one, two, five, six years later. And this happened.
[00:31:41] You know, you are in the middle of nowhere. And you got a message in your phone with a text, maybe with a picture. And these people or this person tells you, look, I just wanted you to know that five years ago, I was writing this exercise to myself. And I made these decisions. And today, they become real in my life. I have no idea what they decide to do. Actually, I don't need to know.
[00:32:08] But it really, you know, gives me this idea, this impression that you plant seeds, you know, you drop these pebbles, you know, in a pond or whatever. And then these ripple effects, they just go on and on and on and they're endless. And it's very liberating as well for me because, you know, I really try to focus on doing the best I can with what I know and what I have.
[00:32:37] And, you know, when these things are achieved, then it's done. It's OK. What happened afterwards? It's OK. I like how he says, I can't explain and maybe it doesn't need an explanation. As somebody who's incredibly busy in my head all the time, I love to analyze things. I love when we can simplify something that has taken place inside us.
[00:33:00] Going back to that Coast of Bicentina trip, tell me what partners you are collaborating with and what what what would I expect with food? And like, do I get to taste part of the land? Are they local? Are they do I do I get a cultural experience even though I'm in this walking mentorship program?
[00:33:20] Well, we really try to have an impact in local reality. So if you have a possibility to choose between, you know, a family owned family run business, we will definitely go for that. And instead of going to a big hotel chain, we have nothing against it. Sometimes we need to use it.
[00:33:40] But we understand that we can be elements of change, of positive change. So we really try to maybe put you in contact with the not so obvious, maybe not something you will find in in a brochure or I don't know, Lonely Planet, something like that. And as I was saying before, this takes time, you know, we need to meet the people. They need to trust us. We need to trust them.
[00:34:10] And then we have this feedback when people say, oh, you know, tonight at dinner, I really felt at home. Of course, because you are being treated as a family member. That's why you feel at home. OK, sometimes maybe the gastronomics experience can be, you know, a little bit different from your reality. But since we all have this information about either allergies or food restrictions or something, so we always try to adapt.
[00:34:37] And even in our diversity, I think we can always have a glimpse of what these people do, eat, how they behave. And and I think there is something very important here. When you touch the local partners, you are touched by their love and many things in life can only be explained and understood when you feel this love.
[00:35:04] I don't think you can really be very rational about it. And honestly, we don't try to be very rational about it, too. So we just enjoy. And when we leave, we are grateful. We say thank you and see you maybe next year or next time we come around. And it's a pleasure, you know, to enter a house and receive a hug from a business owner. It's not marketing. It's it's just pure honesty.
[00:35:30] And that passes to the participants, which, again, helps on this incredible internal journey. It helps. I love that you're saying that and you're bringing that to light as I know, like normal tourists, because this isn't a tourist experience. So this is a transformational experience that's facilitated.
[00:35:51] But it really creates that understanding of what you're delivering as, you know, when you sign up for a typical tourist trip. And there is that underlying tone of marketing, right, that you feel with everything. You kind of feel like your cattle being herded one way and then herded the other way. And then you're given this superficial experience throughout the tour. And that is not what you're offering here.
[00:36:18] You're really allowing someone to experience home away from home in a space where they are going to be left feeling like they had a genuine moment with somebody left with an exchange of kindness. And that is invaluable. I agree. Actually, I think that some things you can you can only have access to them if you have the information.
[00:36:45] It's not really about, you know, your economic capacity, because certain things you just need to have, you know, this possibility of access to it. So we try and, you know, it goes back a little bit what I was telling you of this big living room with many doors. It's another door.
[00:37:07] And it's so beautiful to see that after the program, some people actually either keep in contact with the owners of the places that we pass or they return, you know, by themselves or with their families. It's very beautiful to see that. And I love that you guys have the consideration of food allergies and food sensitivities. So even on that level, that is taken care of. It's important, Elizabeth.
[00:37:31] I think that if you have something that can worry you and make your experience not so positive, I think it's so nice to know that someone is caring for that. And I was just thinking about, you know, we had some situations. I mean, not so standard. I would say more specific where you really need to care that this person, in order to have a proper breakfast, someone probably needed to do a lot of things.
[00:37:58] And then when we arrived in the breakfast table and there is a little sign on the table saying, look, this is the seat for, I don't know, Maria or Carlos, whatever. And then when this person looks around, you know, all these things that are there were made specifically for you. It's good. It's it's you know, it's so nice when life gives you these things. Oh, it's beautiful. It's it's more than nice.
[00:38:26] This like what is going to be the effects of me eating this and just creating a seamless adventure really is the difference of surviving versus thriving in a new experience like this. Indeed. So what what has surprised you most about this program? Surprised me? Yeah. What has surprised you? What questions have you gotten or what experiences has have taken place that even you are like, wow, I didn't see that coming?
[00:38:56] Well, I think I really think we do very little that this is what I believe. I mean, we try, obviously, to make things work in different aspects. But I do think that the heavy lifting is always done by the participant inside yourself. And what surprises me program after program, because there is no two programs that are equal.
[00:39:24] Every single program is like a story on its own. I think I really if I had the skills and the time, I think I could write the book in the end of each program because it's a story on its own with different chapters belonging to different participants. But what maybe surprises me the most is to see people that come and quite often in the beginning, these are the people that are more skeptical.
[00:39:53] I would even say sometimes just slightly annoying because they keep on kind of boycotting the process. But then experience tells me that most likely these are the people, the person in most need of this process. And to see this journey of going from either denying or refusing or resisting.
[00:40:22] And sometimes this can be physical. You know, you can see it in the faces. You can see it in the body posture and so on. And then when you see this person making it through blossoming. And then by the end of the week, there is a different face because there is a different person there. And this can really be so impactful that it's impossible to forget.
[00:40:51] Because I've seen people coming from really dark places. And sometimes I'm even surprised because I think I was not even aware that these places could exist, but they do exist.
[00:41:09] And by having someone that holds by your side and believes in you, actually, because I think that there are not many people believing in other people these days. And that's why I'm saying that we do very little.
[00:41:26] Because, again, these people are so brave, but so brave to look into their, you know, very, I would say, scary ghosts inside their lives. And then decide, I don't want this anymore. I want to change. I want to be better. I want a better life. Honestly, it's worth any sacrifice that we have to go through. And we go through some of them.
[00:41:55] But it's worth it because you understand that your life is worth it. And when you are in this level, you know, you just need to be grateful for every day. That's interesting that you do receive a lot of pushback sometimes. Drinking the Kool-Aid. Am I not drinking the Kool-Aid? What is this? I'm skeptical, which is great. Everybody should have a healthy level of skepticism and critical thinking skills. And so I always appreciate that.
[00:42:21] And so it's probably even more magical when those skeptics then do start to have an experience. And the level of experience is, of course, up to them. I like that you just open the door and what they find is completely up to them. Yes. With the Costa Vicentina trip, what will a typical day look like?
[00:42:48] Well, our days are made of routines because routines are important to keep your brain a little bit stable because everything else has nothing to do with routine. I mean, as I said, we don't control the weather. So there's nothing about routine when you think about the weather. Then you have your internal process, which can be extremely chaotic. And then you have the other participants with an extra layer that you also quite often don't control. So what we try, again, is to give a bit of balance.
[00:43:17] So we start the day usually quite early because we try to do the most part of the walking, let's say, exercise during the morning until lunchtime. Sometimes we need to do a little bit in the afternoon. But, you know, it's fresher. The air is cleaner. And, you know, there is this incredible magic light in the morning. So we start quite early. We have a breakfast.
[00:43:41] After breakfast, we have usually we walk, imagine, for one, two kilometers just to let your brain settle. And then we stop in a nice place and we give you the briefing of the day. So the briefing about the exercise. It's always a suggestion. So today we suggest that you do this. You have these questions. You have your survival kit with you. And then there will be moments when we stop and you can write. Or sometimes you just send audio messages to yourself because some thoughts are so important that you don't want to lose them.
[00:44:10] And usually, as I said, we do this initial part of the day on our own. So we walk nearby. You know, we can see each other, but we walk alone because it's just easier. And then maybe after two or three hours, we maybe do a pairing. So you will be walking, imagine, for one hour with another participant. And you will share basically the exercise you are doing.
[00:44:34] Not necessarily the content, because sometimes content is so personal and you don't feel, you know, enough trust maybe. Or you don't feel like, you know, going to details. But you can always trust, share the process. And when you hear about the other person's process, you might have, you know, kind of a eureka moment and say, oh, I never thought about that. That's amazing. But what I've seen, and this is related with our principle number three, the more you give, the more you receive.
[00:45:02] So actually, the more you share, the more you receive from other participants. You don't have to do it at any point. Actually, you might, you know, enter muted and you leave after one week and you are muted too. I never seen that. But you can do that. I mean, it's up to you.
[00:45:19] But I've seen people enjoying so much to listen to others because, you see, this is a little bit like a cocktail with ingredients that usually never come together. I mean, you will be with a group of people that I can almost guarantee you, you will never be with these persons ever in any other situation in your life. It's pure serendipity because of the language, the cultural, the age, the moment in life, the job, the family.
[00:45:49] So actually, you have kind of, I don't know, it's like a portal that during one week you will be in a dimension that usually you are not traveling there. So you should just enjoy. You say you give the structure to go through four big moments, slow down, reconnect, gain perspective, take action. Can you explain this more with lived experiences and examples? Sure. Absolutely.
[00:46:14] Look, I think they follow a good sense sequence. Why? Because quite often people come to the program and they are so stressed. I mean, you even see the way people walk on the first day. And sometimes I even question them. I mean, where are you going? Are you running away from something or you want to reach something immediately tonight? Because they are so fast. So the first moment of the program is about slowing down. Because if you don't slow down, you just cannot think properly.
[00:46:44] And here, nature and walking, it's a great help because I can guarantee you that you can start fast. Yes, you can because you're fully charged of stress. But after 15 or 20 kilometers, you start slowing down and that stress starts staying behind you on the road. So that's the first moment. And you have a couple of exercises to help you to do that. Second moment is about reconnecting. And look, the moment you start thinking, slowing down and you start thinking, you start talking with yourself.
[00:47:14] So you start reconnecting with yourself. And the moment you start reconnecting with yourself, you start connecting the dots of your life, meaning other people around you. So you reconnect with yourself and you reconnect with people that, okay, some are there that week with you, but many are not. And actually, we have one specific exercise that will challenge you to talk with the people that stayed home. You know, and this is very interesting because at a certain point, you understand that you are not walking alone.
[00:47:42] There's a lot of people walking with you on that week. So once you reconnect with yourself and with others, then we can move to a third moment, which is about gaining perspective. Imagine this is literally like zooming out from your life. And you are kind of an observer of your life. And then since you zoom out, it's easier to think, okay, maybe one year from now, what is the picture of my ideal future? It's not your future.
[00:48:10] It's your ideal future, which is a totally different thing. So actually, this is an exercise of visioning. Look, I am here today. This is where I stand. This is how I feel. One year from now, maybe two years from now, I would like to be here. And then we start adding components to this ideal future in terms of relationships, environment. Where do you live? Do you live in the same place? Did you move to another city, another country? Did you change your house?
[00:48:38] Or maybe you have different relationships that you have today. Or you recover relationships from the past friends that you haven't talked for a long time or family members. We talk about finance. We talk about joys. We talk about accomplishments. And actually, we do the reverse. Because some people know exactly what they want in the future, but some people don't. So we ask you the opposite question, which is the future to avoid. What you don't want to have in your life.
[00:49:06] And quite often, people are very clear about that. And you know what? The opposite of that, it's what you want. And the final part of the program is about action, taking action. Because all these moments are great. You have amazing insights. Beautiful moments will last for your life. But if you want to change something in your life, you need action. That's why it's so important that the last part of the program, it's all about reflecting on your purpose. Or maybe revise it or update it.
[00:49:34] I mean, because it really depends on your situation. Some people have thought about this for many years. Some people maybe think for the first time in the program, what is my purpose? And when you try to align your purpose with actions, then it makes it easy to design your action plan. So imagine if the program finishes on a Saturday, you should be very, very clear. What are you going to do on Sunday? Because you know you have the outcomes, the objectives, the reason why, the challenges and the solutions,
[00:50:03] measures to check the success, how you are going. And then you have checkpoints that you know how to do them along the way. And this is a circular process because our first exercise is called Kilometer Zero. And our last exercise is called Kilometer One. So actually, there will be a moment, I don't know, six months, one year, two years from now, that you finalize your Kilometer One and you go back to Kilometer Zero.
[00:50:30] You don't need to come on the program because you have the materials, you know the process, you can and you should do it definitely on your own. But you know how to do it. And if you follow, you know, this to be impactful, then it's very easy to do it again and again and again. It's an ongoing process of our life. That's very much in line with what you're saying that you don't hear from people sometimes until five or six years later. And then they truly experience the impact of what happened on the walk with you.
[00:50:59] I want to talk a little bit more about your personal evolution. Do you continue to take away something from each walk? Does it ever become routine to you? What is your experience with this? It's a great question. It was one of my biggest fears in the very beginning because when you think that this is your life, this is your purpose. I mean, you don't want to reach a moment that you feel just, you know, another day at the office and boring.
[00:51:31] And you know what? It's impossible. Because every day, every group, every person is different. I can even walk with the same person after six months, same route. It will be a totally different program. So from this side, it's impossible to be boring because it never is. So that's a fact.
[00:51:54] Another thing is that I also noticed that as this goes, you know, in a certain direction, which is very interesting because there is more requests from different parts of the world. For many years, I really didn't know how to answer because we had people asking, how can I become a walking mentor? But me and my partner, Nunu, which is an incredible human being, we never had a good answer.
[00:52:23] So the answer was, we don't know. Maybe one day we know how to answer. So I think, fortunately, about one year ago, we managed to design an accreditation program. And actually, we are just now finalizing our first cohort. So we have more mentors working with us in different countries around the world. We'll do another cohort next year. And this brings so much good because now we have different layers. We have different languages, different experiences.
[00:52:53] We have backups. So actually, it's true. You don't need to do all the programs, which is great because then you can focus maybe on the ones you can have the biggest impact. But above all, it brings this notion. You know, we start by talking about citizen of the world, right? And I think that the walking mentorship needs to be a reflection of citizens of the world. So it's so beautiful that we can take to a program someone from Brazil, from Latvia, from Australia, from US, from Spain, from Portugal.
[00:53:22] And this is our world. So we don't need actually to use the word diversity or inclusion because it is what it is. It's what we do. So we don't need to claim it. But we should leave it and try to make it an example because example, you know, speaks very loud and maybe inspire other people to do similar things. So you never get sick of walking? No, I walk every day.
[00:53:48] Actually, if I don't walk, it's not really a good day for me. And, you know, I learned to enjoy rain, cold, heat because, you know, this is just so marvelous to have all these elements. And then it's always teaching you to be flexible. You know, if it's too hot, I need to work and walk very early in the morning. If it's too cold, I need an extra layer. And if it's raining, it's just amazing because if you go out and you sing, you can dance in the rain.
[00:54:17] It's amazing. So, yes, I walk every day. I want to share a quote from your website. You say, by walking in nature, we take advantage of old knowledge that is being verified by science. Walking is much more than exercise. It is vital for stress reduction, focus, concentration, motivation, memory, and mood. When you walk, you find your own pace to move forward towards the best version of yourself. Indeed. Why is this work so important to you? Because it's not a work.
[00:54:48] This is the reason why I exist, why I'm here. So it's like breathing. You know, I have to breathe every few seconds or minutes. I have to do this. I just cannot avoid. I spend all my life preparing myself without knowing to do what I do. And I'm very happy for that. What have we not asked you today that we should be asking? Oh, amazing question.
[00:55:13] Maybe you could have asked me, is this a program for everybody, for every person? And I would answer, no, I don't think so. I don't think this is a program for every person. But this is a program for every person in a certain moment in life. What's your message to the world? My gosh, that's a big task. The world is very big and it's so complex.
[00:55:38] I think I'm pretty sure that we learn as we walk and as we move forward. And if we stop walking, we stop learning. So I think it's very important that we keep walking in any direction, your direction, at whatever rhythm or speed, because it's your speed. And if possible, keep walking and keep walking with me, because this has a double meaning.
[00:56:05] If you keep walking with me, it also means that I keep walking. So it's a win-win. It's a win-win. Thank you so much for being here today, Joelle. I have really appreciated talking to you and just knowing that a program like this exists, I think has made me feel just really good. I think after this call, I'm just like filled with so much energy right now that I've got to walk it out. So on that note, thank you.
[00:56:33] Well, thank you very much for having me. And maybe I would just like to add that I want to thank you for what you're doing, because I think postcards, I have to say this, this is one of my hobbies. Every time I go for a walk in a different country, I have a notebook. And in the end, the last pages, I have addresses, physical addresses. And I just love to send postcards to people because I know that this is something very special.
[00:57:01] And I think postcards, like the project that you have, I think they are like reminders from heaven that can bright up your day. So thank you for what you're doing. Oh, thank you. We really appreciate that at Postcard Travel Show. And I feel the same. I think we're onto something really wonderful. Well, thank you for having me. Thank you.
[00:57:27] If you liked what you heard today and can't get enough of our storytelling, join the Postcard Travel Club for free at postcard.travel and learn more about the incredible hotels, tours, and retreats that showcase local stories and advance responsible tourism. Also, don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe to the Postcard Travel Show available on all your favorite podcast streaming services. I'm your host, Elizabeth Drolet.
[00:57:57] Remember, we do not travel to escape life for life not to escape us. Safe travels, friends.