ZipRecruiter is Lost

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[00:00:53] Hi, it's your kids. Lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Soosh and Joel

[00:01:00] Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where hers. Complete with breaking news,

[00:01:06] Flash opinion and loads of snort, bubble up boys and girls. It's on for the Chad and cheese podcast.

[00:01:26] Yeah, two guys who are not quite ready to start cutting interest rates. What's up kids?

[00:01:32] You were listening to the Chad and cheese podcast. I'm your co-host Joel on the road again,

[00:01:37] Cheeseman. This is Chad flock off. So, Wash. And on this episode, it's Deals World. We're all just

[00:01:44] rent in space. Indeed's new Oompa Loompa job search category. Let's do this.

[00:01:56] Okay, listener, how can you help your employees become more productive? I have answers.

[00:02:01] How about automating manual and repetitive tasks, giving meaning to data, then allowing that

[00:02:08] data to actually drive decisions. And how about matching people to your jobs quicker?

[00:02:14] Well, wait, the Chad and cheese has a new LLM. No, Cheeseman, I'm talking about text kernel.

[00:02:22] Okay, that makes more sense. What I'm hearing is the groundbreaking concept of wait for it.

[00:02:29] Yeah, simplicity. Seriously though, seriously, text kernel cuts through the complexities

[00:02:36] like a tortilla chip through some hot nacho cheese. Oh my god, really?

[00:02:40] Nacho references already. Anyways, text kernel brings efficiency and productivity to your operations.

[00:02:47] Text kernel seamlessly unifies your tools and data to drive efficiencies and success.

[00:02:54] Text kernel is creating new opportunities for your recruitment journey,

[00:02:59] kind of like adding guac to my barbacoa burrito. Oh my god. How about extracting meaningful

[00:03:06] insights from data? I mean, that's something swiftly matching people with jobs, automating repetitive

[00:03:12] tasks. Who knew such advanced concepts were even possible in the land of human resources?

[00:03:21] We did Chad. We did. Dude, wrap it up. I'm a little hungry. Imagine that. Okay, listener,

[00:03:29] get ready to use today's tech to drive efficiencies and productivity. Visit text kernel.com. That's

[00:03:35] t-e-x-t-k-e-r-n-e-l.com. Mmm, nachos. It's been a week, Chad. It's been a week. I can use some

[00:03:50] Vegas time. I don't know about you. Yeah, I'm definitely going to feel some Vegas time. Yes,

[00:03:56] Vegas. You need Europe soon. I could like your, you're almost on peak,

[00:04:02] ready to get the hell out of the US. Yeah, this, I mean, it's obviously an election year that makes

[00:04:08] it worse. Yeah. Because all the stupidity just gets compounded and it's just like, oh, give me the

[00:04:14] fuck. Calgon, take me away. Get me the fuck out of here. So this just dropped it out. Have you

[00:04:23] saw this Netflix is going to air boxing match? Have you seen this? Huh? Any guesses on who's

[00:04:32] fighting? I know clue. I have no clue. All right, old guy, Mike Tyson. Yes, okay versus Jake

[00:04:39] Paul in a boxing match live on Netflix. I for one am here for it. I for one.

[00:04:48] So this is not like a premium. You have to pay additional for it. Is that what I'm hearing?

[00:04:52] If you have Netflix, you can get on. And to me, this is the future of like live events because

[00:05:00] anyone in the world that has Netflix can watch it. Yeah. Maybe four in the morning in Malaysia or

[00:05:04] whatever, but when it airs, you don't need the local CBS, you know, affiliate, you can watch it

[00:05:10] anywhere. And for me, like YouTube and Netflix are probably the only two companies that have like a

[00:05:16] global anyone can watch when it's on thing. And I think this is where, you know, sports and

[00:05:23] live events are going. So kudos to Netflix. I think it's pretty cool. I know I'm going to watch

[00:05:27] and you'll probably watch too. Yeah. And knowing our listeners, they're all going to watch as well.

[00:05:32] Okay, so I remember flat blast from the past. I remember I think it was 1990. Yeah, I had to

[00:05:39] been 1990 when a buster Douglas beat Mike Tyson. I was on the beach in Panama going through

[00:05:48] scuba diving training scuba diver training and I it was it was a I can remember it so vividly

[00:05:57] because I remember watching Mike Tyson up through high school just just batter and obliterate

[00:06:03] mother fuckers. And this guy comes out of nowhere from Columbus, Ohio and takes down Mike Tyson.

[00:06:08] I just thought that that was amazing. Tyson was the most awesome until that moment,

[00:06:14] yeah, the most awesome boxer I had ever seen. Yeah, if you want to see the best fight of all time

[00:06:21] go watch Hagler herds, that was probably the best the best. I think two or three rounds of

[00:06:27] of a fight that you can get. Yeah, there's some good ones. There's some great, great,

[00:06:33] boxing matches. Oh, we're so goddamn. Oh, yeah, here we go. I'm going. I'm going. I'm going.

[00:06:38] I got to do this. I got to do it. Are we ready? I'm ready. Okay, so this is shut out to the dumb ass

[00:06:44] of the week after last week's idiot CEO at Wendy's pitched surge pricing. I mean dynamic food pricing.

[00:06:52] This week eight W H Kellogg's CEO Gary Pylnick earns the dumb ass of the week monitor. Just watch.

[00:07:01] We think about our consumer under pressure. There's things that we could do, but most importantly

[00:07:05] what this category could do. The serial category has always been quite affordable and it tends to be

[00:07:11] a great destination when consumers are under pressure. So some of the things that we're doing is

[00:07:15] first messaging. We got to reach the consumer where they are. So we're advertising about serial

[00:07:20] for dinner if you think about the cost of cereal for a family versus what they might otherwise do.

[00:07:25] That's going to be much more affordable.

[00:07:31] So while CEOs, boards and C-suite wages have skyrocketed and people actually doing the

[00:07:37] fucking work can't keep up with their bills. The dumb ass of the week Gary here sees a perfect

[00:07:44] a perfect let-a-me cake moments right? Let-a-me cereal. I mean how fucking tone deaf is that?

[00:07:50] Wow, that motherfucker is having wagoo beef three times a damn day.

[00:07:55] It's okay that the peasant labor class is having to have his version of gruel for dinner.

[00:08:02] I just- this is happening every single week and I just don't get it man.

[00:08:08] Where are the PR firms coming from that are advising these food companies?

[00:08:13] Look. Fired, I hope.

[00:08:15] I mean, I gave a better answer. I think that probably the most PR firms is like they should have

[00:08:19] they should have the Wendy's thing should have been we're going to have we're going to have

[00:08:22] pricing higher at lunchtime but we're going to give it back to the workers because that's when

[00:08:26] they work the hard way. They didn't intend for that though.

[00:08:28] That would be a great spin right for this move if it's true. This move reminding me of and as

[00:08:34] we're dating ourselves you've obviously seen the movie Mr. Mom. Oh god yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:40] So Mr. Mom Terry Gar gets a job which back in the day that was that was crazy that a woman

[00:08:46] can have an executive job and they're selling tuna and her thing is like look times are hard

[00:08:53] we're going to reduce the price of tuna and when things get better we'll go back to our old

[00:08:59] prices but for now we're in this together you remember this right? You've seen this movie

[00:09:03] he gets little flags out and everything like Mr. Mom would have been a better guide for

[00:09:08] this decision than any PR firm in New York would have been.

[00:09:12] Tony. And they do these it's just like it's such a slam dunk to compare this to let them

[00:09:18] eat cake that I can't believe these people with MBAs and degrees from Ivy Leagues don't put

[00:09:24] those pieces together and think this is probably dumb thing to say. They're living an entirely

[00:09:28] different life than the rest of the world. That's the problem. Yeah, that's the problem there in

[00:09:32] the ivory tower. They're seeing the sunshine you know all that other fun stuff and then there are

[00:09:37] the peasants in the fucking mud and they're like well you know this fucker has an eaten a fruit

[00:09:42] loop in his life and he's telling us to eat it for dinner. All right, okay my shout out

[00:09:50] shout out to getting off the food thing because it's lunchtime as usual and I'm going to be really

[00:09:54] hangry at the end of the show if we keep up with food so I'm going to give a shout out to Craigslist

[00:09:58] yeah that's something we don't don't do a whole lot on the show but aim group which we do mention

[00:10:04] quite a bit on the show. They've been analyzing Craigslist for 20 years they go in, they know what

[00:10:10] the cost of a job posting is because it's really transparent and they count up how many jobs and

[00:10:16] they give a pretty good estimate about where Craigslist is in terms of how much it makes because Craigslist

[00:10:21] is this black box it's a private company it's just really mysterious so they try to uncover the

[00:10:28] dollars around this so they just came out with their new analysis of Craigslist so the headline or

[00:10:33] the subtext is quote Craigslist is still the number one general classified site in the US but the

[00:10:39] dinosaur may be slowly headed to extinction so revenue for Craigslist peaked in 2018 it's like

[00:10:47] a billion which is which is quite a long time from when it started right like it took a long time

[00:10:52] to get two billion that was 2018 a game two billion today it's about a third of that in terms of

[00:10:58] revenue just still a lot of money they have about 500 employees their their expenses is 15 percent

[00:11:07] so they've got a little bit of margin of profit there and what they're doing in 2023 they

[00:11:14] generated the majority of the revenue as they always have with jobs which was 40 percent so I was

[00:11:20] 50 58 million dollars in revenue from that so it is it is slowly dying we see a lot of competition

[00:11:28] obviously but it's just it's just fun to occasionally go back to the days of Craigslist launch

[00:11:33] to 95 it was a newsletter thingy really before the internet was a thing Craig Neumark is this

[00:11:39] weird hippie guy I went to go to LinkedIn to look at for information there's no logo they have that

[00:11:46] building icon like we do because we have a page that's Craigslist this is a billion dollar one point

[00:11:52] company no real official LinkedIn page it's still a mystery but thanks to aim group for making

[00:11:58] some sense of it shout out to them as usual yeah I think I mean Craigslist if you take a look at it

[00:12:04] is is really almost like a microcosm of a lot of these job sites it was a lifestyle business

[00:12:11] it it was and it exploded they've embraced tech that they've been I mean it's just it's one of

[00:12:16] the things like simplicity is working when this dot thing dies one day will all be millionaires

[00:12:22] anyway so who gives a fuck right so it's for me yeah awesome yeah if my math is right every employee

[00:12:30] is is bringing in and quotes a million a million plus dollars so they're doing all right yeah

[00:12:36] when they were making a billion dollars they were doing really really all right yeah this non-profit

[00:12:43] in San Francisco and their Birkenstocks and their and their sweats socks are doing doing all right yeah

[00:12:48] Craigslist is still trucking just like monster and crib owner there's they're the walking dead

[00:12:53] among us yeah and just getting more deadter all the time but I'd like I'd like some of that death

[00:12:58] in my bank account Joel wanting some job board into his yeah I want some job board with my with my

[00:13:06] fridge shut down I've got one I've got I've got a shout out to hybrid so I was forwarded a head of

[00:13:12] talent acquisition job posting on LinkedIn this week from a company named hybrid so a TA executive

[00:13:19] sent it to me and said hey here's a job for another town acquisition you know head of talent

[00:13:24] acquisition at this company named hybrid it was an onsite only job so I don't

[00:13:32] the irony behind something like that it's like a hybrid welcome to hybrid okay what days can I go

[00:13:40] home you can't we've got a you can set up over here we got a little monk you know we got monk

[00:13:45] beds or more time for activities so yes shout out to hybrid for not being so hybrid and I love good

[00:13:52] irony which is why I'm wearing my Nikki Haley for president t-shirt today speaking of dead campaigns

[00:13:59] Chad and the walking dad with Craigslist you probably saw that LinkedIn was down this week and not

[00:14:04] that kind of downers went fucking crazy they went nuts they went nuts so it was it was down for about

[00:14:10] an hour and a half it follows a a metacrash an Instagram which was was worse which also followed

[00:14:18] an eight an 18 t down down so that was big bring on the conspiracy theories now because Twitter

[00:14:27] still up and and tic-toc is still up so do with that what you will conspiracy theorists but I felt

[00:14:33] like the shout out really goes to the people on Twitter and the socials who sounded off about LinkedIn

[00:14:40] going down so here's just a here's just a piece of what some of the some of the internet's famous

[00:14:45] said so Christine KK 94 said LinkedIn bros already rehearsing their quote I'm honored to be back

[00:14:54] speeches for tomorrow like they just survived a digital apocalypse and quote Liam Liam killing

[00:15:01] Stad tweeted quote it's crazy how LinkedIn is down but porn hit porn hub is still working at least

[00:15:08] that's what I heard in quote and our friends our friends at higher easy Chad did not miss an

[00:15:14] opportunity to stick it to link down they tweeted quote with LinkedIn down it's the perfect time

[00:15:20] to embrace modern tech to message candidates promoting its AI email generator for recruiters

[00:15:27] products so shout out to them for taking an opportunity to to market their stuff

[00:15:32] all LinkedIn was down kick them when they're down that's what I'm talking about but who's not

[00:15:38] getting kicked Chad the people who want free stuff because this week and I'm going to look at

[00:15:43] the cat out of the back here kids this week we've been going back and forth semi arguing about

[00:15:49] what design is going to go in the front of the t-shirt okay we've been having fun with it

[00:15:53] there have been like 20 different iterations so I got to give Joel big props for that because

[00:15:57] he's been going back and forth with the designers but our friends at Aaron app I actually have a

[00:16:02] sticker on my little slough guy he's a cute little guy um there are new t-shirt sponsors so be

[00:16:10] looking for those to come out here and any event any event soon uh beer again you gotta go to free

[00:16:18] you gotta go chat cheese dot com slash free register for all this stuff beer by aspen tech labs whiskey

[00:16:24] by text kernel get two bottles of whiskey one from Joel one for me and then if it's your birthday

[00:16:30] you know you want a little rum from plum or at least register to win some wrong

[00:16:36] for blonde that's right you know what that sound means I can feel all the way down

[00:16:42] celebrating another trip around the sun I put in two weeks because we're going to be in Vegas next

[00:16:47] week so this is a little bit long so bear with me here uh we got iron mic shaffer from factory fix

[00:16:52] so nice birthday Ashley Collins barb friend silo michael de hola de alloya I always can ever

[00:17:00] pronounce that mel scatzen Robert Williams Tracy Morris Jeffrey Wagner beat Michael Mueller of

[00:17:07] its beat or biot he's he's foreign uh but it's it's it's it's michael jackson beat it

[00:17:13] Michael Mueller uh bill fanning our friend david ultima james cleaver ryan gibbons rameen

[00:17:19] ten hampton that's a cool name john middleton deb andor chuck lian chase deen de casta

[00:17:25] amandahon ryan estes bruce ghi kreg watson down under yeah and kip kyle hager is celebrating

[00:17:36] another trip around the sun so happy birthday

[00:17:40] happy birthday happy birthday so hopefully we'll see some of those guys as we're at events as we

[00:17:47] said next week we're going to be at transform but then we're going to europe that's right you know

[00:17:54] synthesizers you know the your fans love them uh we're gonna be at the uh ee recruitment congress

[00:17:59] in amstradam march 19th full day uh in amstradam dedicated to presentations knowledge around the

[00:18:06] ai shift in recruitment and technology uh we're looking forward to it i don't know i think it might

[00:18:11] actually be full up i don't not sure if there are any seats left but just in case got a chatchee's

[00:18:16] dot com slash events you can look to see if you can register there you might get the last couple

[00:18:22] of a couple of seats and uh i'd be remiss without mentioning chad that it is the beginning of the

[00:18:27] month which means we're going to get our monthly report from the feds about the job market which

[00:18:32] means it's another episode with the sasquatch of statistics to be dating from link up uh it's

[00:18:39] gonna hook up with you because i'm going to be on a plane i think uh in route to uh to look over

[00:18:44] the numbers which come out tomorrow or as i'm listening to this so uh make sure you tune into that

[00:18:49] only on youtube youtube.com slash at chad cheese to nade and subscribe and like and share

[00:19:02] all right chad are you ready so ready for some news from africa all right hr startup deal

[00:19:13] is acquiring african based pay space its largest acquisition yet although terms we're not

[00:19:19] disclosed that's following last week's purchase of zavi uh which we talked about pay space serves

[00:19:26] fourteen thousand plus customers across 44 countries including major brands deal made the deal

[00:19:33] get it sorry i again two weeks in a row yeah it's too easy uh as it aims to strengthen its presence

[00:19:40] in africa while it reaches five hundred million that's up from four hundred million in ar with

[00:19:47] plans for an IPO in twenty twenty five or twenty six chad your thoughts on one of the greatest

[00:19:55] songs frankly of all time as well as the news the news out of deal never get enough total uh africa is

[00:20:04] a huge growth market i mean not to mention pay space services over fourteen thousand clients

[00:20:10] in forty four countries across europe pay space is perfect for deal which is a global

[00:20:16] eor employer record company looking to pick up some great tech services anchor to a growth market and

[00:20:24] is moving quickly to that's right kids hcm the human capital management platform side of the house so

[00:20:31] when they go from eight eor to hcm that opens up deals total addressable market making deal

[00:20:38] a global workforce eight cm along with the eor services that they provide how many eight cm

[00:20:45] providers actually do eor today themselves that's native to their platform i can't think of any

[00:20:52] off the top of my head so i think this is big for deal um eighty p's revenue in twenty twenty three

[00:20:58] was eighteen billion i mean i love the subtle flex not so subtle flex of adding a hundred

[00:21:05] million dollars to your a r r cuz just a few weeks ago we were talking about holy shit they've got

[00:21:11] four hundred million in a r r that's pretty fucking awesome and then a few weeks later they like oh no

[00:21:17] i'm sorry about that uh yeah we did we forgot to carry on one that's five hundred million right so

[00:21:23] subtle flex but there's great opportunity not just from an eor standpoint but opening up

[00:21:29] and really starting to you know take maybe take some of that not just the eighty p revenues but

[00:21:34] the ripplings there are tons and tons of big whales out there that don't have quite new tech i mean

[00:21:42] rippling not one of those they're they're pretty new but there's great opportunity yeah yeah it's big

[00:21:47] what are you doing step bro chat i'm running out of adjectives uh for deal frankly um you know the world

[00:21:56] at large has Nvidia these guys might be our Nvidia at the moment you mentioned you mentioned rippling

[00:22:03] there was there was a whole flock of these uh that we talked about extensively remote oyster etc

[00:22:09] flock of these is that what you said flock of these any metric that's publicly available says that

[00:22:15] deal is is crushing all of these guys uh rippling maybe the closest to it but um it's just an

[00:22:21] impressive onslaught of deals and growth that deal is uh is is is dropping on our community i can't wait

[00:22:31] for the IPO uh we're gonna talk about that a lot obviously it could be the damn break i mean to me this

[00:22:38] is like the next indeed this is the next workday this is the next linkedin like i think we're

[00:22:43] gonna be talking about these guys as the eight hundred pound gorilla in that category um and

[00:22:48] we're watching an unfold uh in front of our eyes so unless this is some like in-ron level bullshit fraud

[00:22:55] uh that's gonna take us all off off off are you know don't say that don't say that no accusations i'm

[00:23:01] just saying it let's just as like what the hell was that they pulled it pulled it on all of us um

[00:23:06] these guys are crushing it uh just a few numbers for you uh in terms of hiring it's their sales

[00:23:12] department is up 170 percent uh in a year their project management is up 702 percent head count on

[00:23:19] the year their engineering is up 328 percent biz dev that the guys that make the sales the guys

[00:23:25] the gals do in the real work 632 percent growth in the year look at their competition and it's

[00:23:33] nothing no doubles double digit growth is good oyster shrinking like oyster we might as well just

[00:23:40] disregard that they might be an acquisition for deal next to get them to a billion ARR i don't know

[00:23:45] long story short i'm running out of adjectives they need to like slow down because i can't keep up

[00:23:51] um it's a lot of fun covering these guys and and by the way who's doing shit in africa real like we

[00:23:57] hardly ever talk about that like these guys are so large these guys are making shit happen so aggressively

[00:24:03] like they're talking africa they're gonna talk eight antartica they're gonna be growing into pretty

[00:24:08] soon they're gonna be launching antartica deal uh any minute now i'm sure but yeah this this is

[00:24:14] fun to watch uh you know it's exciting um it's fun um i can't wait till they go public and we have

[00:24:21] public numbers to see actually what's going on and and uh really really have some fun with it because

[00:24:26] talking about their birth greater stock is a little boring chat it's a little bit of a downer

[00:24:32] is my thing anyone speaking of downers let's go to our next story because i'm yeah i'm running

[00:24:38] out of words which is you know zippercruder and this is somewhat of a downer especially if you

[00:24:43] are a client of zippercruder uh this next one comes from uh friend of the show Tim Sackett where

[00:24:49] Tim writes hello chad and cheese uh no just kidding uh quote hey dip shits and it was what yeah

[00:24:57] hey assholes uh quote zippercruder came out today and is asking for price increases for current

[00:25:04] clients our current contract is roughly ninety two thousand dollars and to keep the exact same

[00:25:12] products they now want roughly one hundred and sixty thousand dollars they aren't even a top

[00:25:21] source for us so we'll be saying goodbye end quote so jol is this really time for an increase

[00:25:28] well if you do it right anytime can be a time for an increase oh so should they have done surge

[00:25:36] pricing is that what i'm hearing well i'm surging right now after talking about deal um there's price

[00:25:42] increases and there's like desperation uh price increases like you gotta know how to boil the frog

[00:25:48] right you gotta know how to do it uh degree at a time look netflix is great at this netflix is a great

[00:25:54] service uh but over time like before you know it you're not paying seven nine a month anymore

[00:26:00] you're paying fourteen ninety nine and you're like what the hell happened but it didn't hurt so like

[00:26:06] you keep doing it and pretty soon before you know it you're paying twenty nine a month and if they

[00:26:10] keep having mic ties and fight it might be ninety nine nine nine bucks a month but this reeks of

[00:26:15] stupidity you don't just drop it at seventy three percent increase or whatever it is on on your

[00:26:20] customers and i'm guessing sack it had been a customer for a really long time he had to have been

[00:26:25] i'm guessing yeah so like let's take one of our let's take a customer has been around forever

[00:26:30] that is uh is a figurehead in the industry a lot of people know and let's stick in with a big price

[00:26:35] increase and now he's going to cancel and not come back and tell all is recruiting buddies like zippercruiders

[00:26:41] and then they're going to think twice about using zippercruider i don't know how you walk back from

[00:26:45] this it's kind of tough we talked about their quarterly earnings recently like life is not great at

[00:26:50] zippercruider and this is gonna make it a lot worse like you got to learn how to boil the frog i

[00:26:55] mean as much as we love indeed right they stuck the they stuck the price increase in the terms

[00:27:00] of service like the new thing made it look you know did didn't write at least and before you know

[00:27:06] you're spending a lot more at indeed than you would otherwise but it doesn't feel like it because

[00:27:09] they didn't put a 73% increase on you overnight so bad move another bad move and the many bad moves

[00:27:15] that we talk about from zippercruider on a regular basis so if you take a look at it same product

[00:27:20] almost double the price at least indeed is trying to fake giving more value with the new price

[00:27:26] increases i mean we all know it's bullshit but they're trying to fake it right we'll see if that

[00:27:31] actually passes um but we say it all the time the SMB market is a bitch it it is and that's where

[00:27:38] zip that's that's where they they earn their bonds man was on the SMB side of the house um

[00:27:44] zip entered the enterprise market way too late bigger accounts less transactional and more sustainable

[00:27:51] right um expanding the the total addressable market just isn't that easy especially when you're going

[00:27:56] after this way not to mention they were spending much like and this is very reminiscent of monster

[00:28:02] career builder indeed spending loads of money on super bowl commercials for that SMB market to try

[00:28:09] to drive those single postings those small job packs and whatnot but that was more on the transactional

[00:28:14] side spending that kind of money is just not sustainable now zip didn't do super bowl commercials

[00:28:20] but they were the biggest and I'm not they currently are they were the biggest

[00:28:24] spender in podcast advertising across the globe right so again to be able to meet the SMB market

[00:28:32] you have to spend tons of cash because you have to be on the top of minds of those small businesses

[00:28:39] because they don't need you every day right enterprise need you every fucking day so that

[00:28:44] they went kind of backwards at it so this is it's it's it's it's kicking their ass right now

[00:28:48] in many ways and I know i've said this before but they're a victim of their own success

[00:28:52] they did such a good job of were for the small guy were for that borrow you know that bar owner

[00:28:57] down the street that she that you went to school with yeah that that trying to pivot into enterprise

[00:29:02] go public try to be bigger than what you are uh has bit them in the ass and um if they're given

[00:29:09] these price increases to sack it i can't imagine what you know the the bark the bar guy down the street

[00:29:14] is thinking about the price increases yes when I was at monster 75% of the revenue that we actually

[00:29:20] received was from staffing company yeah and toms a staffing company right yeah so I guarantee you

[00:29:26] what they're trying to do okay let me knock on wood what i think they're trying to do is they're

[00:29:31] trying to juice the staffing companies stick it till yeah they're trying to juice the staffing

[00:29:37] company say hey look they can't live without us so we're gonna make them pay well i think what

[00:29:42] they're gonna find is that they can probably you know live without you it's good for indeed 60%

[00:29:46] of the time it works every time well let's let's go ahead and let's talk about another big name

[00:29:52] appcast so a t.a leader who was an avid listener and appcast client sent me the following message from

[00:29:58] his appcast representative quote with the acquisition of bayard last year we appcast are currently

[00:30:06] rolling out some changes to our business model currently we are transitioning away from

[00:30:11] supporting customers below a $20,000 per month spend who with an end of March target date end

[00:30:20] quote so Joel what would the response be from you if you received a message like this from

[00:30:28] your rep we were doing our movie don't wreck our show you loser look at what they do not what

[00:30:34] they say um Chris form and CEO founder appcast was on a charm offensive when they were when

[00:30:41] they acquired bayard saying nothing's gonna change it's all good we love agencies blah blah blah

[00:30:49] and then you see stuff like this that says you know what we just want big companies with like

[00:30:54] agency dollars to be our clients and what it says to me is like they're becoming competition for

[00:31:01] the shakers the n.a.s.s the the the radencies of the world and if those folks aren't thinking about

[00:31:08] plan b and c which i'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that they have that they definitely should

[00:31:14] because appcast is coming for them period and that's that's what this moves says to me so story time

[00:31:21] years ago when I was in radio advertising I would have respected advertisers with smaller budgets

[00:31:28] that I would have to turn down because the budget was to would be enough to run one 30 second

[00:31:33] commercial in drive time for the entire month right and that in itself is not going to give you

[00:31:39] the the sales and or brand expectations brand awareness expectations that you wanted so I would

[00:31:45] introduce them to some of our sister stations who could help them right for with their budget size

[00:31:51] unlike zippercouter appcast understands their total addressable market that's what i'm seeing here so

[00:31:57] is that a bad thing zip is all over the place and it seems like appcast is literally just trying to

[00:32:03] focus and be more disciplined so what i don't agree with is the way in which this appcast representative

[00:32:11] handled the situation so i assure you appcast does not i repeat does not want to be the new most hated

[00:32:19] brand in the industry i'm sure they'd rather allow that to just stay with indeed right or in this

[00:32:24] case zippercutter appcast and bared who know who they are they are enterprise and as we what we'd

[00:32:30] talked about before um that's not a bad thing but in the journey they can't tell clients to save money

[00:32:36] by eating cornflakes and spending that cash with them right i mean it's like yeah well just spend

[00:32:42] less over here and spend more with us so they're going to and i think this is good for some of the

[00:32:47] smaller agencies they'll be able to pick up some of those some of those portfolios that just kind of

[00:32:53] like fall away if they're spending $15,000 a month and they don't qualify that's still $180,000

[00:32:58] a year right that's not a bad-size client but i think again the difference between zippercutter

[00:33:04] who they they have no discipline they have no fucking clue what they're doing they are all over

[00:33:09] the place in this case it really feels like appcast is trying to tighten things up they're trying

[00:33:15] to focus and the only way that you can do that is to have some of these very very hard decisions

[00:33:23] i'm not saying it's a bad decision it's the 80-20 rule right it's 20% of your clients are 80%

[00:33:29] of your headaches in most cases in most cases those are the smaller clients where you're there only

[00:33:35] you're the only game in town you're all they're doing like they are focused on you know on what

[00:33:40] you're doing for them whereas the big companies they give money to a lot of people they're a lot less

[00:33:44] of a headache so i'm not saying it's a bad business decision i think it's probably great business

[00:33:49] decision i just think that it's a it's a it's a shot over the bow of every agency that app you

[00:33:56] need to think twice about appcast being your programmatic solution of choice for your clients

[00:34:02] that's all i'm saying i think i think this is literally appcast targeting in on radency right and

[00:34:08] saying look you guys are you guys are enterprise we're we're gonna we're gonna take you down our

[00:34:13] our techs better we've got bared now we're i mean go after the big the the big fish the big whale

[00:34:20] right but there aren't many there aren't many agencies that cater to the little guy i mean little

[00:34:24] guy we're talking about close to two thousand dollars a year right i mean yeah depending on

[00:34:28] what your scale of little guy is um it's a it's a good market so uh yeah sure and if you can take

[00:34:34] those branding dollars and those job posting dollars and and and it becomes a really good business

[00:34:41] and that's what appcast is doing they're they're cutting away from the little guys that aren't like

[00:34:44] big picture big dollars and they're focusing on the ones that are so it's good for them i just

[00:34:49] think it's a warning to everybody else and again back to my analogy if they don't feel like they can

[00:34:54] do with a what they need to be able to do from an expectation standpoint for that clients it's

[00:35:00] better that i push you off to somebody else who can actually give you what you do you think they

[00:35:04] should have a product for those little guys uh maybe one day but right now they're being focused

[00:35:09] and they're being disciplined and i really like that i like that they're they're they're doing

[00:35:14] that so at the end of the day sales needs to tighten up they need to be more diplomats than strong

[00:35:20] arm you know strong arming prospective clients to get them from 15,000 to 20,000 or whatever it is

[00:35:25] right because that seemed more like a strong arm tactic email than anything else but when i

[00:35:32] talked to to appcast you know again got to own it you got to know who you are and i got to say a

[00:35:37] kind of dig you know where this is leading Chad uh oh this is leading to that stepson acquisition

[00:35:42] of career builder and monster to where they have that US foot right and they're going to send all

[00:35:47] the little guys now to monster and career builder which they'll own for the little the little deals

[00:35:53] and they'll take the big deals i'm telling you Chad i'm telling you i see it the writing is on the

[00:35:57] wall 60% of the time it works we're back

[00:36:05] human resources is supposed to be about humans i mean it's right there in the name but when

[00:36:11] your hiring team is more like an assembly line glued to their computers manually posting heaps

[00:36:17] of jobs everywhere they can think of that human part feels nowhere to be found this is a new era

[00:36:23] pandaw iq takes the mind numbing copy pasting and nerve-wracking guesswork out of the job posting process

[00:36:29] when you plan a hiring campaign with pandaw iq you tell us who you need then before you ever spend

[00:36:34] a cent we predict what it will cost to find them pandaw iq chooses the ideal recruiting sites from

[00:36:40] thousands of options targeting the ones your next great hire frequently visits then fires off your

[00:36:45] ads at precisely calculated times surfacing the most relevant applicants for you to pick from now

[00:36:50] you're free to get to know the best talent build great teams and take care of your humans

[00:36:55] pandaw iq will do the rest so you can get back to doing what the computers can't

[00:36:59] for more information on pandaw iq go to pandologic.com that's pandologic.com

[00:37:09] all right Chad what a great first block we have a lot to live up to after that one all right

[00:37:14] uh let's talk about uh a recent headline um fast company that reads quote clarna says it's

[00:37:20] AI assistant does the work of 700 people after it laid off 700 people and quote a fortune headline

[00:37:27] reads quote clarner rose hiring because of AI now it says it's chatbot does the work of 700

[00:37:34] full-time staff and quote after partnering with open AI clarner has seen significant efficiency

[00:37:40] in its customer service interactions which is likely to influence other companies around the world

[00:37:46] to follow their lead and i think that's probably going to be a bad thing for recruiting but maybe we'll

[00:37:51] one unfold that uh Chad what are your thoughts on clarnas 700 so yesterday i spent 20 minutes on hold

[00:37:58] right and i did that because i wanted to talk to a human being customer service rep because

[00:38:04] i've used these chat bots and i've used chat uh on customer service for a few years now

[00:38:12] and i don't like it because it doesn't give me the what i what i want what i need i will be

[00:38:18] async on chat with a service rep for hours hours when i wait for 20 minutes i know i can get on

[00:38:25] with a human being i can generally get that taken care of you know within 45 minutes right so yes

[00:38:32] i see i see this as in some cases an opportunity to be able to replace you know some repetitive

[00:38:42] types of types of positions but the real question is why is clarner doing this i mean

[00:38:47] they could easily just cut heads slowly without filling you know those positions

[00:38:53] and still find themselves in this situation without risking the we like robots over people optics

[00:39:00] because that's what they're looking for here they're pushing for these types of optics so why

[00:39:05] risk bad optics i think it comes to these three letters they're your favorite three letters

[00:39:10] jolceesman IPO they are trying to make a ton of of splash in the media with these numbers

[00:39:19] because they want to go IPO and they want to go big so we will have to set expectations that any

[00:39:26] jobs that are routine and repeatable are obviously at risk okay that's going to happen

[00:39:33] but at the end of the day these guys care more about going IPO and their bank account

[00:39:38] than any of that shit and i mean that's what that's what this feels to me every time i hear

[00:39:43] anything about these guys they're always pushing toward that 700 700 700 and go oh wait a minute

[00:39:49] what are we looking to do oh IPO okay that makes sense did you say IPO i agree with you i think

[00:39:59] historically automated customer service blows you know push one first push two for Spanish one

[00:40:07] for English okay especially with a digital phone and so yeah you know are you you want to check

[00:40:13] your balance press one you want like that's an awful experience but if you had a voice it sound

[00:40:18] like human and i can talk to it i know the difference maybe a little bit of nuance here and there

[00:40:22] which will probably be cleared up at some point like i'd be okay just like just like job seekers

[00:40:27] posting uh given their resume to accompany in doing a chatbot as opposed to the black hole that's

[00:40:33] a good thing so here's some numbers from the story so the the bot is managing two thirds of customer

[00:40:39] service chats roughly 2.3 million conversations 23 markets and 35 languages so the bots can speak any

[00:40:47] language and apparently they're getting better about what what your accent is what region of

[00:40:52] germany you're from yeah it'll get better yeah it's better in there okay yeah well uh the

[00:40:57] integration is expect to increase to increase profits by 40 million dollars in 2024 the company said

[00:41:03] the chatbot's efficiency has resulted in fewer errors a 25% decrease in repeating queries

[00:41:10] and reduced average conversation times from 11 minutes to two minutes so i've not talked to this

[00:41:16] bot but at least metric wise it's better so if companies can eliminate headcount and make the

[00:41:24] customer service experience better everyone's gonna do it uh and that's the bottom line of this

[00:41:30] any public like this is the year of efficiency we keep talking about it zuckerber proof that you

[00:41:35] can you can you can fire 20 million people or 20 thousand people and your stock is going to go

[00:41:40] through the roof because you come more efficient uh twitter by still being up or x by as meta

[00:41:46] crashes and linkedin goes down just proves that you can you can cut 80% of your developer staff

[00:41:52] and you're still up right this is going to bleed into companies all over the place

[00:41:57] laying off customer service laying off sales staff because automation is the way the future

[00:42:02] i'm not saying it's right or wrong i'm just saying this is the way that it is and this is going

[00:42:05] to impact recruiting it's going to impact hiring uh there's no doubt about it and how how how fast

[00:42:11] it happens and how how big of a breadth that happens on a global scale we don't know but we're

[00:42:18] going to talk about more and more companies that are doing these kinds of things we talked about

[00:42:22] was the indian company a year ago laying off 90% of their customer service yeah and that was

[00:42:27] probably some hack job you know whatever automated system this is chat gpt integrated now uh if

[00:42:34] you listen to the all-in podcast a more popular podcast of four really rich technical guys uh they

[00:42:40] talk about this extensively so if you want to know more and kind of their take on it uh listen to

[00:42:45] to what they said but it's any tech company is going to want to create efficiencies like this

[00:42:50] and would love to cut their customer service if they could as well as their staff and marketing

[00:42:54] everybody else i do agree i did the facebook thing though you got to stop using that that's

[00:42:58] such a fucking right here because because they they killed vr they killed vr and they were bloated

[00:43:06] i mean it's so they they actually just all they did was they were doing business very irresponsibly

[00:43:12] for a for a long time and then they're like oh we're going to be responsible so what you're saying is

[00:43:18] total bullshit it's a red hairing it doesn't make sense because they were doing bad business now

[00:43:24] they're doing better business but we agree this this will be a trend we'll be talking about more of

[00:43:29] these stories already a trend because we had tech bloat in the first place so i mean that's

[00:43:33] what happens well there's a float and there's replacing the bloat with bots which is different yeah

[00:43:39] well in this case no question like anything that's routine repeatable i mean that that in itself

[00:43:45] these wrote that this is open AI by the way and they they actually uh they partner with open AI

[00:43:51] about this this is what's going to happen and we've talked about this on other podcasts too

[00:43:55] is that ai is a commodity period right this is all about training the ai so you get a company like

[00:44:02] clarna who is going all in on ai very quickly the reason being is they know if they they train it

[00:44:09] today as like a puppy it's gonna piss on the carpet you gotta train it so it doesn't have stupid

[00:44:14] responses and next thing you know it's doing just as well if not better than humans if you have

[00:44:20] it co-pilot a human then the humans also teaching it the best responses so i mean there there are many

[00:44:27] many models that are in place right now but open AI Gemini for complexity and thropic some of

[00:44:34] these big names i think all they're gonna be the ones that that went the uh the guys on the all-in

[00:44:40] said that what wouldn't it be interesting if they made this an open source and made it available

[00:44:44] sort of to everybody to build on to that would be interesting they also made a prediction

[00:44:49] you'll find this interesting if you haven't heard uh they're predicting at some point we will have

[00:44:53] a one person unicorn oh a single person will build a company around AI and automation

[00:44:58] and create a billion dollar company the reason being is they will hype it and fund it all for

[00:45:03] those fuck sticks all for those fuck sticks well they will fund it they will hype it i mean it's just

[00:45:10] okay i mean so what so what all right sticking with uh with high tech

[00:45:20] stack overflow has secured its first customer google for paid access to content used to train

[00:45:27] AI chat bots the deal allows google's Gemini chat bot to utilize stack overflows q and a for

[00:45:33] coding assistance terms of the deal we're not disclosed but stack CEO said quote this will be a

[00:45:39] meaningful commercial offering for us in the near term medium term and long term chat what are

[00:45:47] your thoughts on google's data deal so i think it's interesting because i'm wondering what kind of

[00:45:52] hallucinations will happen after letting them uh letting that that beast loose right uh winning no

[00:46:00] matter it's it's a very smart play by google we just talked about clarna and what they're looking to do

[00:46:06] this is all about data this is all about walled off data uh and they're going to be playing

[00:46:12] they're going to be paying stack overflow for this and and that is genius um and they are setting

[00:46:19] a precedent which i think is awesome because there is money to be made there's money in them

[00:46:24] thar hill so you know stack is is is one example there are many data lakes data data oceans that

[00:46:32] are out there that i think there's gonna be a race to the to to those those lakes of data from google

[00:46:39] and microsoft obviously with open a i and so on and so forth um but people using the models

[00:46:46] they the beautiful part about it is that they're starting to understand that the large language

[00:46:50] models are not the voice of god they are imperfect and yet still incredibly helpful at the same time

[00:46:56] so i think at first we got in there and it was like oh it's a toilet's play with it and it was

[00:47:01] all good and it's like wow this is pretty good and then people got really serious about it and then

[00:47:05] they're like we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna snipe every single you know issue that we see

[00:47:11] we need to go back to remember this is a puppy it's still pissing on the carpet to some extent

[00:47:16] yeah this is this is unfolding to be a common story we talked about the new york times and certain

[00:47:22] publications suing uh the llm's for using their their content now we're saying these companies get paid

[00:47:31] for their content and read it most recently um another IPO you know i like love the uh the

[00:47:38] IPO talk chat uh they're doing a deal with google that google can access reddit's content to then

[00:47:45] train their their models um to the tune of tens of millions of dollars i think it's a three-year deal

[00:47:50] it's not exclusive i'm sure they're talking exclusives with some of these but my guess is these

[00:47:56] companies with a lot of content know their value and are gonna try to get as much money as possible

[00:48:01] with as many of these high tech big tech companies as possible what i find interesting is google's

[00:48:08] gonna need a new revenue model if if indeed search is not going to be here's a page of links go to a

[00:48:14] website um and click on the ads that we have on the site if it's more of AI talk to me i'll give you

[00:48:22] the answer you're looking for then it becomes how does google make money on that and

[00:48:27] subscription seems to be like where it's going and you can already pay for jimin i services you can

[00:48:32] pay for open a i um for their better services or enterprise obviously api's will be part of that

[00:48:38] but you look at google you also have to make the websites happy websites aren't happy if they're

[00:48:44] not clicking on a link to google and coming to your site that doesn't make websites happy and they

[00:48:49] really don't like it when you take their content and put it on as the answer to the question i don't

[00:48:55] have to go to your site i can just down google personally i don't think google at this point

[00:49:00] gives two shits about making websites happy they're they're going to find a way to be able to

[00:49:05] monetize off of data that they're paying for number one uh not to mention also you're gonna have

[00:49:11] transactional like let's say for instance businesses who use google one or the google suite uh

[00:49:16] they're gonna pay for you know additional additional jimin i infusion or something in that

[00:49:22] hr i mean there's going to be transactional and they're going to be bigger business

[00:49:26] opportunities where you're actually using the large language models with your data

[00:49:31] much like clarna is doing with with open a i so i think there are many many different ways

[00:49:37] that they are going to be able to not just focus on search and to be able to evolve search

[00:49:43] but it's beyond that right it's all the different tentacles that they they can get themselves into

[00:49:50] all right let's take a quick break and uh we'll talk about indeed

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[00:50:46] all right Chad the internet loves a good fiasco and the Glasgow Willie Wonka chocolate factory

[00:50:52] experience is no exception let me say it again the Glasgow Willie Wonka chocolate experience

[00:50:59] chocolate factory experience is no exception the event took place in a mostly empty warehouse

[00:51:05] and the few scattered candy themed props and actors in shotty costumes left attendees disappointed

[00:51:11] and demanding refunds one photo in particular caught the internet's attention featuring an actor dressed

[00:51:17] as an oompa lupa in a meth lab setting meth lab is in quotes there the actor kirstie Patterson has

[00:51:25] since become a viral sensation and meme of 2024 and where did she find this opportunity well indeed

[00:51:32] of course when asked she said it was listed on indeed I don't normally get my acting jobs through

[00:51:39] indeed but I just thought all right yeah to be honest I was a wee bit skeptical because it was not

[00:51:46] through an agency they were offering 500 pounds for two days of work so I decided to go but wait

[00:51:53] Chad there's more there's more from indeed a racist job ad stating quote no African Americans needed

[00:51:59] and quote was apparently posted on indeed to their credit the ad was quickly deleted and the company

[00:52:05] claimed foul play but one has to wonder how in a world of AI and indeed's immense resources does

[00:52:13] a job posting like this even see the light of day in the first place oompa lupa's and racism at indeed

[00:52:21] Chad what are your thoughts was that racism against oompa lupa not racism against oompa lupa's

[00:52:28] because they have been they've been through some shit man poor poor things yeah that poor kid

[00:52:33] that was a part of the willy wonka I mean she was not acting she looked like she was just horrified

[00:52:38] to be there and I totally get that it was also compared to like a fire the fire festival have you

[00:52:44] seen that oh yeah just a low price fire festival the watches yeah the food like a piece of cheese

[00:52:50] and a bread it's almost impossible for an indeed to actually take a shit scam like that and not

[00:52:56] know that it's a scam the racism piece though I mean I think this literally just identifies once

[00:53:03] again that indeed is not the leader in technology in our space you talk about AI I don't know what they

[00:53:10] have it doing over there but it's definitely not going through and doing reviews or checks

[00:53:16] on the system if it is really sucks at it should probably pick another one but yeah at the end

[00:53:22] of the day we're talking about the length ends of the world a lot of the times the end deeds of

[00:53:26] the world a lot of time zippercuters and most of them and it zips a little bit more advanced but

[00:53:31] indeed in linkedin they have old-ass decrepit shit that they're still trying to sell and it can't

[00:53:36] even get the basics right I mean we talk about matching can't even do matching right can't do a lot

[00:53:41] of this shit so why do we expect it to catch racism I think we're asking too much of linkedin because

[00:53:46] it's it's kind of like that 90-year-old you know in the walker that is that is but has a

[00:53:51] shit ton of cash escalated quickly yeah quickly on the racism thing like they should be able to have

[00:53:57] some filters before job goes public with something like oh let's see what was it no African Americans

[00:54:05] like that key phrase is pretty obvious if they had done it is like yeah I think it's done as like

[00:54:11] a star or an escalation and like try to get around the the filters I get it but the fact that

[00:54:16] that phrase got through is a little bit concerning and they should probably fix fix that in terms

[00:54:22] of the umpulupa chat I'm gonna I'm gonna put my pier hat on because I'm sick of these big companies

[00:54:26] making super mistakes I'm gonna fix indeed's problem so indeed needs to hire kirstie Patterson

[00:54:33] and have her go-to-end deed to find a better job and have her graduate from umpulupa land to I don't

[00:54:39] know what accountant or real estate professional I don't know but this is a grand opportunity for

[00:54:45] indeed to take this social phenomenon and make it something good and help her get a real job

[00:54:51] you're welcome indeed we out thank you for listening to what's it called a podcast the chat the

[00:55:00] cheese breamed they talk about recruiting they talk about technology but most of all they talk

[00:55:06] about nothing there's a lot of shout outs of people you don't even know and yet you're listening

[00:55:13] it's incredible and not one word about cheese but one cheddar blue nacho pepper jack swiss

[00:55:22] so many cheeses and not one word so weird any who we should have subscribed today on iTunes

[00:55:31] Spotify Google Play or wherever you listen to your podcasts that way you won't miss an

[00:55:37] episode and while you're at it visit www.chat cheese.com just don't expect to find any recipes for

[00:55:48] grad cheese is so weird we out how much do you understand the future of finance I'm Jim

[00:55:57] Roos a top 10 banking influencer and host of the podcast banking transform where we dive deeply into

[00:56:03] the rapidly evolving world of banking and financial technology join me as I interview industry experts

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