Talkin' 'Bout a Revolution with Fuel50 Founder & CEO

[00:00:00] Yo Chad, what if I told you there's a platform that could completely revolutionize your hiring

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[00:01:37] That is thiswayglobal.com.

[00:01:41] We out.

[00:01:44] Hide your kids, lock the doors!

[00:01:46] You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast.

[00:01:49] Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right

[00:01:53] where it hurts.

[00:01:55] Complete with breaking news.

[00:01:56] Brash opinion and loads of snark.

[00:01:58] Buckle up boys and girls, it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

[00:02:03] Oh yeah, what's up kids?

[00:02:09] It's Frodo's favorite podcast, aka the Chad and Cheese Podcast.

[00:02:14] I'm your co-host Joel Cheeseman joined as always, the new to my Zealand, Chad

[00:02:19] Sowash is in the house as we welcome Anne Fulton, founder and CEO of Fuel 50.

[00:02:26] Anne welcome to the show calling in from down under.

[00:02:29] Not just calling in, she's already wine, she's ready.

[00:02:33] She knew exactly what to expect for this show.

[00:02:35] She's in her evening wear, she hasn't even gone to bed.

[00:02:38] It's like 8am, she's got a wine glass of gin.

[00:02:43] I don't know what Anne's evening wear looks like so I cannot attest to that.

[00:02:47] She's got the pearls on, she's looking good.

[00:02:50] Anne please save us from ourselves and say hello.

[00:02:53] I know, so cool to be on with you guys.

[00:02:56] I know anything is coming my way so I'm ready.

[00:03:00] I've just come off a 9am wine tasting session so it was a very respectable 10pm

[00:03:06] London 5pm East Coast but I was the host so there you go.

[00:03:11] Set me up for a good one with you guys.

[00:03:13] Perfect, you are ready to rock and roll.

[00:03:17] So Anne a lot of our listeners don't know you, don't know Fuel 50.

[00:03:20] Give us a Twitter bio about you and then a little bit about Fuel 50 before we get into the Q&A.

[00:03:25] Anne Fulton, long time dreamer as all entrepreneurs are.

[00:03:29] So great believer in creating amazing futures for people.

[00:03:33] So career matching has always been my thing since I was 14 years old.

[00:03:37] Took a careers test, said I should be a funeral director.

[00:03:41] Thought I could do better.

[00:03:44] That's winning.

[00:03:46] And created Fuel 50 to match people to futures.

[00:03:49] So Fuel 50 is now a talent marketplace matching people to opportunities,

[00:03:53] futures, career journeys, learning mentors, coaches,

[00:03:56] everything that you need to make it happen and that's delivering

[00:04:00] organizations business benefit of you know people will stay if they can see a future.

[00:04:04] So we're delivering retention, we're delivering productivity gains,

[00:04:07] we're delivering faster to market for people.

[00:04:10] If you're taking an internal hire placing them you'll get better productivity,

[00:04:14] better performance, takes two years for an external to match.

[00:04:17] So reducing cost of hire.

[00:04:18] So we're doing all sorts of things.

[00:04:20] And you've been around a while.

[00:04:21] This is no startup right?

[00:04:22] You've got some gray hairs in there somewhere as an organization.

[00:04:26] Yeah, Anne doesn't but yes they do.

[00:04:28] Anne looks fabulous.

[00:04:30] Thank you.

[00:04:30] We hit the market in 2014 at the awesome new HR technology at HR Tech.

[00:04:35] You know so yeah we've been around 10 years now.

[00:04:37] But you know partnering with some of the world's biggest and best organizations.

[00:04:41] So I put United Nations in there.

[00:04:43] I could throw in Meta, J&J.

[00:04:46] You know so some of these organizations you know real enterprise grade

[00:04:49] where we're delivering scalable reskilling for the future.

[00:04:52] So that's our mission.

[00:04:53] So before we start talking revolution because hell I want to talk about that.

[00:04:57] Let's talk a little bit about how AI has really kind of like thrown a wrench

[00:05:02] into some business plans but for others it has sent them into warp speed.

[00:05:07] Where are you guys at?

[00:05:08] Is it touching?

[00:05:09] Is it affecting any impact?

[00:05:11] If I start with AI for our own business like oh my god.

[00:05:14] I mean we've been working on AI for many years before this generative AI revolution.

[00:05:19] And you know we're able to code faster.

[00:05:22] We're able to deploy faster.

[00:05:23] We're able to bring benefit to our end users.

[00:05:26] And you know whether that's an HR person, a line manager or an end user asking questions.

[00:05:32] So AI has been fabulous for what we are doing and that matching of people to futures

[00:05:39] just becomes more powerful with AI support.

[00:05:41] So that's our own use case.

[00:05:43] You know we're having lots of fun.

[00:05:44] Did you say you're using it for coding?

[00:05:46] Yeah so you know coding efficiency or code quality reviews.

[00:05:50] So yeah there's all sorts of use cases that can actually deliver enablement.

[00:05:55] Met as a client Chad so she's got Zuckerberg on speed dial.

[00:05:58] So she's into that year of efficiency just like.

[00:06:01] I'm sure.

[00:06:03] Yeah I'm sure.

[00:06:04] Let's jump into some revolution here.

[00:06:06] I understand there's a book.

[00:06:08] Talent revolution.

[00:06:09] So we've been hearing about a revolution forever.

[00:06:12] It seems like it's coming back.

[00:06:15] I don't know if it's this AI thing or whatever the hell it is.

[00:06:17] But you see a revolution in the future or you're hoping for one.

[00:06:21] Talk a little bit about that.

[00:06:22] Why write a book?

[00:06:24] Yeah so I mean the talent revolution for me was you know an absolutely necessary

[00:06:28] thing for us to put out there.

[00:06:29] And the reason for that is that we are overdue for this revolution.

[00:06:33] It became more urgent during the pandemic with the employee experience.

[00:06:36] However our original desire for change and transformation for organizations came

[00:06:42] from you know the methodologies where you were putting people in a box right.

[00:06:46] You know only the top right people would have a future.

[00:06:49] You wouldn't care about the rest of your organization.

[00:06:51] And in fact you know some would say you know you exit them as fast as you

[00:06:54] can anyone bottom left.

[00:06:56] So that kind of methodology you know we thought was flawed.

[00:06:59] There were succession plans for the top 100 people possibly in an

[00:07:02] organization.

[00:07:03] But what about the other thousands of people that have talent and potential if

[00:07:07] you can match them to an opportunity.

[00:07:08] So we really thought talent management systems putting people in a box

[00:07:12] controlled by HR was ready for disrupt.

[00:07:15] So you know that's been very much our strong thesis is that we have to do

[00:07:20] things differently today than we were doing 10 years ago.

[00:07:23] So you know there's this there's so much more that we can be doing.

[00:07:26] Talk about pre-pandemic post pandemic because I feel like the pandemic and

[00:07:31] the work from home that was sort of a start of the things changing

[00:07:36] significantly.

[00:07:37] Where do you do you agree with that and where do we go from here because I

[00:07:41] think a lot of people like to take us back pre pandemic to the good old

[00:07:45] days.

[00:07:45] Where do you stand on where we are and where we're going.

[00:07:47] Yeah I do think pandemic was such an inflection point and I actually wrote

[00:07:51] the book when I was you know in a managed facility for two weeks and

[00:07:56] under control and under the thumb of the New Zealand government at that

[00:08:00] moment in time and I was like oh my goodness what am I going to do.

[00:08:02] I need to do something productively with this time while I'm stuck in a room

[00:08:06] for two weeks not allowed to leave my room.

[00:08:08] So that was an inflection point but there were other things happening at

[00:08:11] the same time that I think created real momentum.

[00:08:14] So yes thankfully we now have this real commitment to hybrid work you

[00:08:18] know or remote working and that people can contribute from anywhere.

[00:08:21] So that's part of the revolution.

[00:08:23] The other big thing that was happening at the same time along with this

[00:08:27] challenge to us all as to how we work was the Me Too revolution and to me

[00:08:32] that was employee voice.

[00:08:33] All of a sudden employees can no longer be ignored.

[00:08:36] We need to listen.

[00:08:38] We need to you know pay attention to what our people are saying to us you

[00:08:41] know and Me Too is at an extreme end of the equation.

[00:08:45] However every leader every HR practitioner needs to create opportunity

[00:08:50] for voice for their people and we're ready for bottom up approaches to

[00:08:53] things and that's part of this revolution that we see.

[00:08:56] Well it just seems like the system has been broke for so long.

[00:08:59] I mean top to bottom.

[00:09:00] I mean whether it's attraction not using the talent that you already

[00:09:04] have in your database not using the talent that you already have in the

[00:09:07] ranks of your organization.

[00:09:09] So from obviously the internal mobility standpoint like you're talking

[00:09:13] about being able to actually understand skills once again not whether

[00:09:16] it's external or internal.

[00:09:18] So you talk about pandemic Me Too demographics.

[00:09:22] I mean new generation Gen Z really starting to show itself in the

[00:09:27] workforce and then obviously tech the velocity of tech is just immense

[00:09:31] right now.

[00:09:32] So I mean this seems like a perfect time for the book.

[00:09:36] The question is how do you get that adoption to happen which is the

[00:09:41] hardest thing in our industry it seems.

[00:09:43] I think you've got to think carefully about what's the unit of

[00:09:45] contribution that we're talking about here and so you know I'm

[00:09:47] going to say skills are you know you've heard it before that skills

[00:09:50] are the economic unit and the new currency in this economy and this

[00:09:54] talent economy today.

[00:09:55] And if you're thinking around that you know I heard Danny Johnson from

[00:09:59] Redthread saying the other day and I actually really liked it.

[00:10:02] Why are we imprinting a work methodology that's 150 years old

[00:10:06] you know created in the 40 era.

[00:10:08] Why are we still creating these organizational structures when the

[00:10:11] way that work is being delivered is radically different today.

[00:10:14] Why are we you know why are we looking at this imprint model.

[00:10:17] And the answer the unpacking of the answer is looking at what's the

[00:10:20] unit of contribution.

[00:10:22] So we're thinking about skills are we thinking about tasks because I

[00:10:26] think you know we need to go on this journey of moving past jobs

[00:10:30] or roles as being the economic unit which has served us for many

[00:10:34] many years but we are now ready to move from jobs to skills or jobs

[00:10:39] to tasks as an organizing principle for work.

[00:10:42] Where do you put education in that.

[00:10:45] So the what I'm hearing you saying is that the traditional sort of

[00:10:49] four year college that's a lot less important if it's a skills based

[00:10:53] economy.

[00:10:54] So where does that put education in you and how does that evolve.

[00:10:57] I mean I really love that question so thank you for bringing it up.

[00:11:00] I mean I think education I mean is going to be consumed differently.

[00:11:03] I think millennials and Gen Z's I mean they don't necessarily rely on

[00:11:08] classroom learning if they want to figure something out you know they're

[00:11:10] going straight to chat GPT to answer you know to ask the question or you

[00:11:14] know googling it and finding in the moment tutorials.

[00:11:17] So the unit of learning you know is consumed very differently.

[00:11:21] That being said you know I think there's you know wonderful

[00:11:25] transformation work involved with University of California network

[00:11:29] and led by this amazing technologist at UCI very very

[00:11:34] visionary around joining the dots between universities students

[00:11:39] and workplaces.

[00:11:40] You know so how do we create this seamless journey between you know work

[00:11:44] that exists and you know this wonderful you know learning population

[00:11:48] and how do we deliver this lifetime ongoing learning that means that

[00:11:52] people will have skills that remain relevant.

[00:11:54] So yeah really interesting work being done there.

[00:11:59] Okay listener how can you help your employees become more productive.

[00:12:03] I have answers.

[00:12:04] How about automating manual and repetitive tasks.

[00:12:08] Giving meaning to data then allowing that data to actually drive decisions.

[00:12:13] And how about matching people to your jobs quicker.

[00:12:17] Well wait the chat and cheese has a new LLM.

[00:12:22] No cheeseman I'm talking about text kernel.

[00:12:25] Okay that makes more sense what I'm hearing is the

[00:12:29] groundbreaking concept of wait for it.

[00:12:32] Yeah simplicity seriously though seriously text kernel cuts through

[00:12:38] the complexities like a tortilla chip through some hot nacho cheese.

[00:12:42] Oh my god really not to references already anyways text kernel brings

[00:12:47] efficiency and productivity to your operations.

[00:12:50] Text kernel seamlessly unifies your tools and data to drive efficiencies

[00:12:56] and success.

[00:12:57] Text kernel is creating new opportunities for your recruitment journey kind of

[00:13:03] like adding guac to my barbacoa burrito.

[00:13:06] Oh my god how about extracting meaningful insights from data.

[00:13:10] I mean that's something swiftly matching people with jobs automating repetitive

[00:13:16] tasks who knew such advanced concepts were even possible in the land of human resources.

[00:13:25] We did Chad we did dude wrap it up I'm a little hungry.

[00:13:29] Imagine that okay listener get ready to use today's tech to drive efficiencies

[00:13:35] and productivity visit textkernel.com that's T-E-X-T-K-E-R-N-E-L.com

[00:13:45] Nachos.

[00:13:49] So that's interesting from the standpoint of what we're used to is

[00:13:53] go to college you know go to university when you are in your early 20s and then 40 years

[00:13:59] later you didn't go back to school at all right it doesn't seem like we've consumed

[00:14:05] the education or at least training like you're talking about it is a journey of learning it's

[00:14:11] not just it happens once oh wait they've got a master's degree from 40 years ago

[00:14:16] that's awesome but we're looking at education and also as you talked about work in a different

[00:14:22] way.

[00:14:22] I think I mean the obsolescence of skills you know or the shelf life of skills scares

[00:14:27] me because yes it's exhilarating right you know it used to be that you'd come out with

[00:14:31] a skill and you think you've got five years now it's more like two so that does scare me

[00:14:35] so how do we enable people why is it scary oh because it's accelerating so fast right you come

[00:14:41] out with a degree that you know come out from school and you think you're good really you've

[00:14:45] probably got two years to take that skill set you know if you actually do come out with

[00:14:50] meaningful skills um you know you've got two years to leverage that before you're onto the

[00:14:55] next wave of learning you know so how do we but what you're what you're talking about

[00:14:59] though is learning a constant learning lifelong so it seems like that's the only way we're going

[00:15:05] to be able to keep up with tech in the first place is to be instead of just doing this block

[00:15:10] of four years right or block of two years block of four years you're getting up to speed

[00:15:15] with whatever the certification block is and it's just continuous learning so it seems like

[00:15:20] again revolutionary wise it plays right into what your book's talking about i think you know

[00:15:26] i think it's also into the marketplace kind of mentality which is learning is not consumed

[00:15:31] necessarily via you know a formal university or you know school-based education that learning

[00:15:36] is you know from a colleague it's right you know you've got some reverse mentoring happening

[00:15:40] with somebody that's slightly better than you at excel for example or you know you've got

[00:15:45] like i really want lessons from my cfo it's like how do i do a pivot table so it's

[00:15:50] getting those in the moment learning connections like who's better at this than me who can i who

[00:15:55] can coach me on this who can mentor me where's my learning asset you know that i can get at my

[00:15:59] fingertips when i want it so that really fast connection to what's relevant but also getting

[00:16:04] an insight into you know what is trending in my organization where's the burning need

[00:16:08] if i can anticipate you know that these three to five things are going to be an issue for

[00:16:12] my organization in three to five years time or two years time i need to start investing

[00:16:17] so i'm going to become an ai trainer personally you say i'm going to train the ai

[00:16:21] you know that's going to be my role and i think it's going to be every one of our roles right as

[00:16:25] any kind of individual contributing we're all going to be working with ai and yes i want

[00:16:29] my doctor yes i want my lawyer to be using ai so that they're getting better sharper faster

[00:16:34] answers but i still want them there so i think we've all got to work you know with ai to

[00:16:39] deliver that benefit i just want to leave you with it i've got another kind of quote

[00:16:43] that i'd like to share with you right and it does lead to the ai question but um i quite

[00:16:48] like this one from josh berson which is humans are the only appreciable asset on your balance

[00:16:55] sheet on your pnl so people are the only appreciable asset right so think about it

[00:17:00] everything else depreciates right your laptop you know your phone your tools your machinery

[00:17:04] your cars he's so wise people no comment but people can appreciate we can develop and grow our

[00:17:13] skills right so we should be able to increase the value of your skills talents and your people

[00:17:19] that's our lifelong mission so the funny thing is what josh forgot is that algorithms are going

[00:17:24] to be able to scale faster than humans so that's a big change that's where josh is like 20 years

[00:17:29] behind the rest of the conversation yeah so i think from the standpoint of how we're doing

[00:17:34] business we need to change dramatically which again you know we're talking about providing

[00:17:39] a revolution and if we can tie and we should be tying our job so we talk about talent if we don't

[00:17:46] have talent the company doesn't run at least today right there aren't robots and algorithms

[00:17:51] that can do everything that we need to do and that's going to be i mean i think we'll be gone

[00:17:55] by that time that happens but at the end of the day talent is what provides product sales

[00:18:00] service retention expanding wallet share all of that you can't do it without that right but

[00:18:07] once again talent acquisition needs to be able to make that business case does this book actually

[00:18:13] help practitioners better understand the dots number one because you've got to see the dots

[00:18:18] before you can connect the dots is that really what you're trying to go after here um yes i

[00:18:23] think i think that they need to be enabled to see the business benefits right so i mean

[00:18:28] i always like to start from you know what's the return on investment what's the dollar

[00:18:31] impact and why should we be even considering doing things differently so hr more generally

[00:18:36] needs to move from you know focusing on employment to focusing on orchestrating work

[00:18:42] orchestrating learning so yeah being the conductors as opposed to the controllers

[00:18:47] of employment your company is a global company so you you get to see the world from a

[00:18:53] interesting perspective so when you talk about revolution different countries are at different

[00:18:58] places in this process different companies are in different places so you have big enterprises

[00:19:04] small businesses give me some nuance in terms of what you see on a global level of where

[00:19:09] countries companies are in adopting some of the principles that you're talking about yeah great

[00:19:15] question i think what i'd love to see is you know some of those nordic countries leading the

[00:19:19] way in very democratic principles and democratic talent practices because that's been um you know

[00:19:25] very socially minded for you know a long time so we're seeing a fair bit i think of innovation

[00:19:31] and leading edge thinking coming from the nordics i think you know i do actually think

[00:19:36] germany and its work council again very unionized based kind of principles and that has

[00:19:42] challenged our practices across the world in terms of executing on change i do think the usa

[00:19:49] and north america are leading on the way of actually implementing the executing change so

[00:19:54] the world still does look you know so the thinking the leading edge thinking is coming out of perhaps

[00:19:58] those high tech automotive industries you know out of germany and europe however the actual

[00:20:05] implementation of change i think is happening fast in a lot of organizations in the usa are you

[00:20:10] struggling to attract the talent you need today do you lack visibility into where your

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[00:21:00] transforming your talent acquisition today so do you find that change happening in our industry

[00:21:06] in the same way where you know the the us is actually adopting faster than many of the other

[00:21:11] countries around us across the globe yeah i think there's some you know really good thinkers

[00:21:15] in the usa and some early adopters that are really focused on you know creating a change

[00:21:20] journey and and reorchestrating their work principles in ways that are you know challenging

[00:21:25] all of our thinking so gore-tex was one of the first with their holacracy i really like

[00:21:30] patagonia you know and they're thinking around no roles no job titles i'm defined by

[00:21:36] my contributions you know i'm contributing to this project and that project i don't have a

[00:21:40] job title you know pretty brave that sounds very hippie dippy does it not i mean it sounds

[00:21:47] sweet but i mean i you gotta have some kind of direction right you can't just come in and

[00:21:51] in the morning and say well today i'm going to be an engineer all right all right all right

[00:21:56] that's ventura california for you right you know they're all surfers yes some of things

[00:22:01] you're talking about are it might be a little scary to a lot of organizations might be a

[00:22:05] little bit too much for them what advice would you give them in looking at taking the leap

[00:22:10] off the ledge and embracing some of this change yeah no question i think you've got to start

[00:22:14] with your why right so if you are on this change to become a skills-based organization

[00:22:19] where do you start you start with your why what are the benefits with becoming a skills-based

[00:22:24] organization where are your pain points where are your low-hanging fruit and start there so

[00:22:29] if you're looking across the talent life cycle perhaps you've got a use case in the ta

[00:22:33] function but perhaps you're you know your greater greater pain point is around future

[00:22:38] proof in your workforce from the learning point of view so where are your low-hanging fruit

[00:22:42] start there you know build out that journey i think there's no such thing of getting to

[00:22:46] perfection across the entire talent life cycle instantaneously so you have to start somewhere

[00:22:52] and technology enablement today around you know creating a skills infrastructure or skills

[00:22:57] architecture you know has shifted dramatically so you can get those benefits because you do

[00:23:02] need to have that definition of your most basic unit of contribution across the organization so

[00:23:09] you know starting there utilizing what technology is available to you in a scalable way

[00:23:13] to normalize what's happening so some of the organizations we work with oh my goodness you

[00:23:17] know talk about complexity you know they've got 10 different architectures you know existing

[00:23:22] across the organization so where do you start you know so you can leverage technology these

[00:23:27] days to normalize and harmonize across that to imprint with your own organization's dna

[00:23:33] so it's still yours you know meta and j&j do not want the same skills architecture right they're

[00:23:38] not going to use the same nomenclature you know they're not going to you know use the

[00:23:42] same language they've got different strategic goals and imperatives so how do you infuse that

[00:23:47] um into into what's really going to be important for the future of your organization

[00:23:52] how do you start a revolution that's the question right it's a it's great to talk about

[00:23:57] it there's a lot of me we're talking about all the countries and being able to take little

[00:24:02] bits here and there which i think is awesome because i don't think there is one system

[00:24:06] that is the perfect system just pretty much like you'd said so how if i am a ta

[00:24:10] professional i'm an hr professional talent management what have you where does the

[00:24:15] revolution start and how do i start the fire i would say start with understanding the

[00:24:20] voice right you know if you think of all the revolutions around the world you know there's a

[00:24:23] lot of employee voice there's a lot of sentiment that's starting at the grassroots level so

[00:24:28] understanding the voice of people or your stakeholders right so talent acquisition what

[00:24:32] are your candidates saying you know what do they care about what's what are they looking

[00:24:35] for in terms of that experience same with your employees you know your stakeholders

[00:24:40] so to me it does start with the voice you know you've got to start there that should

[00:24:44] then guide whatever comes next right that's going to be your start point what's most

[00:24:49] important for the most part companies don't even know what the voice is i mean candidates are going

[00:24:54] on to black holes employees are leaving because they're not getting an opportunity to to actually

[00:25:00] internally find other positions move laterally what have you so it sounds like from this

[00:25:05] conversation the first thing you need to do is understand what the people want yeah and

[00:25:09] you've alluded to the other thing which is also what's the data telling you right so if

[00:25:12] you've got retention issues you know if you've got pockets of people or you've got candidates

[00:25:16] falling into the black hole or getting noisy in terms of giving you feedback about what you're

[00:25:21] not doing so yeah i think um to me you know that's a really powerful you know starting

[00:25:28] point and that should drive what change comes right so you know then where are we going to

[00:25:32] get the most impact and benefit from change is from that data i'm hearing not only data

[00:25:38] but a lot of branding in your answer how important is employer brand from your perspective

[00:25:45] in looking like a revolutionary company a company that someone wants to get on board with

[00:25:49] and and side note fuel 50 is a pretty unique brand how did you guys come up with the name

[00:25:54] and what's the story yeah thank you so yeah we wanted to fuel engagement and retention of

[00:26:00] fuel futures that was our mission right fueling futures but also fueling engagement and

[00:26:04] retention and organization fuel.com had gone when we came along we could have grabbed fuel

[00:26:13] but i think that's gone now too so anyway 50 in numerology happened to really resonate for us

[00:26:20] you know so that was a numerology means pathways passion progression and multiplicity

[00:26:25] which was really around our scale vision you know bringing everyone on their journey the

[00:26:30] wonder shocks patagonia hit the an end there so bigger picture employer brand importance

[00:26:38] importance in this journey yes i mean i think differentiation is going to be increasingly

[00:26:42] important right so again understanding what your people want and then making sure that you're

[00:26:46] communicating against those things that are going to be important to them i think values

[00:26:50] communication is so important what do you stand for particularly as we're all going to become

[00:26:55] more ai enabled you know i don't know how many of you are getting those reach outs on

[00:26:59] linkedin or in your inbox you know on you know and you said this is a human you were

[00:27:04] like yeah no it's not a human it's too clever so so i think you know differentiation

[00:27:11] on your value proposition is going to become increasingly important being human about what you

[00:27:15] do you know so it's going to be about our people connections going to become they we

[00:27:19] want them more real right as a as a consequence of this revolution more human well i mean using

[00:27:25] tech to be more human all right people that's ann falton and where can we find the book talent

[00:27:31] revolution where can we find the book number one and number two if people want to connect

[00:27:35] with you where would you send them so yeah fuel50.com you'll find the book there and

[00:27:40] easy enough to get a copy uh sent over or we're on amazon bestseller list and organization

[00:27:45] development subtext and uh yeah i'm found easily on linkedin that's my best you know

[00:27:51] way of communicating with me but yeah twitter and falton fuel 50 you'll find me fuel50.com

[00:28:00] chad that is another one in the can we out we out thank you for listening to what's it

[00:28:07] called a podcast the chat the cheese brilliant they talk about recruiting they talk about

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