"Supermodel (You Better Work)" by RuPaul (f/ Joe Ferejan)

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[00:01:36] Labeling RuPaul as a One Hit Wonder seems preposterous in theory.

[00:01:40] RuPaul has not only hosted a successful talk show and appeared in multiple hit films,

[00:01:45] but also helms the immensely successful RuPaul's Drag Race.

[00:01:49] However, all of this success was catalyzed by the song Supermodel, RuPaul's lone charting hit.

[00:01:55] Joining us this week is Joe Ferron, host of Freight School, who helps us strut our stuff on the runway.

[00:02:36] So Joe, when Matt told me we were doing this song, my first reaction was like, that's a real stretch.

[00:02:42] But I got to tell you that, first of all, if we're talking about like charts wise, this isn't that far of a stretch.

[00:02:49] And second of all, as I'm listening to the song, I'm like, you know what?

[00:02:52] This song really never went away.

[00:02:55] This song, I, someone said, you better work.

[00:03:00] I'd be like, cover girl.

[00:03:02] Yeah, right. I mean, this song's still in the public consciousness, right?

[00:03:07] Absolutely. Very much so.

[00:03:09] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:03:10] Chris, I have to say my favorite note that I've read, that I've written down in a very long time, and I don't know if Joe knows this.

[00:03:17] Do you know what megastar in 1993 ranked this as one of his absolute favorite songs of the year?

[00:03:24] Oh my God. Who?

[00:03:25] Kurt Cobain of Nirvana.

[00:03:26] Oh, wow.

[00:03:28] He said that this was, he said that this was one of the favorites of 1993.

[00:03:33] And at the 1993 MTV Video Music Awards, he made it a point to meet RuPaul and get a photo because he was such a fan of the song and the album.

[00:03:44] Can we do we have that photo?

[00:03:46] Yeah. Oh yeah.

[00:03:47] Google RuPaul Kurt Cobain.

[00:03:49] It exists. I think people share it thinking it's a photo shot, but it is very much a real photo backstage at the MTV Music Awards.

[00:03:58] Oh my God. It's Kurt Cobain.

[00:04:01] Dave Grohl just looks so happy to see.

[00:04:05] That's pretty cool.

[00:04:07] And, you know, I could see why that would be, because think about the time it is.

[00:04:12] It's the early 90s and you have someone who's being them, like boldly being themselves, knowing that there are people out there that it's going to piss off.

[00:04:22] And it's like as I mean, the music isn't punk rock, but the attitude is very punk rock.

[00:04:29] Right. Yeah.

[00:04:31] Yeah. Well, I mean, RuPaul has always said, well, let me OK, let me preface this by saying that I have not been a as diligent of a of a drag race fan in the last few years.

[00:04:45] I haven't watched the last like four seasons.

[00:04:48] I think like once it started to exploit, explode worldwide, I was like, this is so much to keep up with.

[00:04:55] And, you know, my joke is that like when it comes to drag race America first.

[00:05:00] But yeah, but but that being said, like when at the height of my fandom, right, like RuPaul has always said in the early days of RuPaul's podcast, he's always said that like his approach to drag in the beginning, in the very beginning with We We Pull, they're like punk rock.

[00:05:17] It was was was specifically how punk it is like drag can be anything for anybody.

[00:05:23] And it just so happened that like, you know, you go from like gender fuckery to supermodel of the world.

[00:05:30] And I think that like I mean, come on, like Kurt Cobain, Dave Grohl, like they love that stuff.

[00:05:36] Like they especially I can only speak about Dave Grohl because I don't know much about Kurt Cobain.

[00:05:40] But like Dave Grohl, like loves all of that.

[00:05:43] Plus, Dave Grohl's a huge disco fan.

[00:05:45] So like house disco gay culture, it's all kind of in there.

[00:05:49] Kurt was very much a big defender of gay rights in the early 90s at a time when not many people were publicly talking about that.

[00:05:56] And I do have to say this is this is strictly for the two of you to witness because, you know, there's not really a video component to this podcast.

[00:06:04] But knowing that this is what we're talking about, knowing that this was kicking off Pride Month, I had to wear my divine filth as my politics.

[00:06:13] Filth is my life T-shirt.

[00:06:15] First to talk about RuPaul, because I agree like specifically with Divine.

[00:06:21] Divine really made drag punk rock as hell.

[00:06:24] Like the combination of Divine and and John Waters, like those movies are are really punk.

[00:06:31] And I didn't I didn't know these two factoids about RuPaul as well was that RuPaul, which crazy that that's the actual birth name of the person.

[00:06:42] RuPaul, Andre Charles.

[00:06:45] That's that's insane that RuPaul actually in the 70s was struggling to decide if they were going to be a filmmaker or a musician throughout the 70s.

[00:06:56] And in 1982, RuPaul debuts on a public access show called The American Music Show and becomes a frequent guest.

[00:07:04] But during that time, RuPaul continued to participate in underground cinema and doing like these weird, like off the cuff indie films.

[00:07:13] But the big break for RuPaul was being an extra dancing in the Love Shack music video for the B-52s.

[00:07:22] And that really put RuPaul, the person and the persona, like on the map.

[00:07:27] And that's another band where it's like that's another band where you can't deny like the B-52s.

[00:07:34] They may not have sounded punk, but they were punk as fuck, like playing CBGBs and owning like the queerness of their music and owning like all of that.

[00:07:44] The idea that that's the launchpad for RuPaul just makes so much sense in my brain.

[00:07:49] Yeah. And I also was really surprised.

[00:07:53] I guess you guys knew this.

[00:07:55] I didn't know.

[00:07:57] I guess I was picturing RuPaul, this persona has been in my life, it feels like for most of my life and be it TV and movie cameos and everywhere.

[00:08:10] I didn't realize this song we're talking about today.

[00:08:13] This was the thing.

[00:08:15] The start.

[00:08:16] This was the start of it.

[00:08:17] And I can't believe that I didn't know RuPaul before this song.

[00:08:22] Like I think of the music as kind of just like an offshoot of all the other projects, when in fact it was the music that launched a thousand ships for RuPaul.

[00:08:35] That got the RuPaul talk show, that got the cameos in like the Brady Bunch movie where she was Jan's guidance counselor.

[00:08:43] Right.

[00:08:44] My favorite RuPaul performance.

[00:08:45] You better work.

[00:08:46] Yeah, my favorite RuPaul appearance, which is out of drag in the movie.

[00:08:51] But I'm a cheerleader as a counselor at a gay conversion camp.

[00:08:55] Yeah, all of that.

[00:08:56] And then, I mean, Chris, I don't think that you grasp this totally like not only is RuPaul's drag race like one of the highest rated, most winningest reality competition shows.

[00:09:10] Joe, you might know better than I do on like where that is on how many times it's won like a Golden Globe and an Emmy for best reality competition show.

[00:09:21] But I think it's pretty much consistently since it came out for the last 20 years.

[00:09:27] It's what wins.

[00:09:28] There are so many spinoffs.

[00:09:30] Like in a solid year, you get the American RuPaul's drag race.

[00:09:34] You get drag race all stars.

[00:09:36] You get drag race UK.

[00:09:38] I think there's drag race Australia now or something.

[00:09:42] Drag race down under.

[00:09:44] John, there are like literally four or five yearly spinoff shows that RuPaul's the host of all of them.

[00:09:53] Well, OK, hold on.

[00:09:55] I'm sorry.

[00:09:56] I have to.

[00:09:57] I must correct.

[00:09:57] I don't feel bad correcting a straight.

[00:09:59] So here RuPaul hosts drag race UK and drag race down under mainly because RuPaul's husband is Australian and has always had an affinity for four members of the British Empire.

[00:10:18] So so like those two specifically, but like all the other ones, they're hosted by actually.

[00:10:24] But they're still hosted by like, you know, different.

[00:10:28] They're hosted by famous queens like drag.

[00:10:31] Canada's drag race is hosted by Brooklyn Heights.

[00:10:36] You have drag race France that's hosted by Niki Doll, who is French.

[00:10:41] Drag race Philippines is hosted by Jiggly Caliente and like Jiggly Caliente Filipino.

[00:10:48] And it's just it's all like here I'm looking at them right now.

[00:10:51] Thailand, the UK, Canada, Holland.

[00:10:56] Spain or Espana, Italia, France, the Philippines.

[00:11:00] Let me stand corrected.

[00:11:01] RuPaul only hosts five of the shows every year.

[00:11:04] And it makes it does make sense to me as someone.

[00:11:07] I mean, I've seen some drag race episodes here and there, but I'm not like a watcher of drag race.

[00:11:12] But it makes sense to me as a person who has been subjected to some horrible reality shows like 90 Day Fiance and what's the one that everyone talks about now with the.

[00:11:26] Oh, Jesus.

[00:11:26] Love is blind.

[00:11:27] No.

[00:11:28] Name the ones that you like, Matt.

[00:11:29] It's probably one of those.

[00:11:30] They're all I watched the Netflix ones.

[00:11:32] The one with Tom Sandoval.

[00:11:33] Oh, Vanderpump.

[00:11:34] Vanderpump.

[00:11:35] Yeah, Vanderpump.

[00:11:36] These shows you're taking the most boring people and doing whatever you can to make this thing interesting.

[00:11:44] RuPaul's Drag Race being popular makes sense to me because part of these being interesting and being whatever a huge personality, isn't that part of the whole culture?

[00:11:57] Isn't that what makes it fun?

[00:11:59] And so it makes sense that it would be interesting and fun to watch.

[00:12:04] It's not an accident that time and time again, the first person eliminated from the first episode of RuPaul's Drag Race is easy to forget because it's usually that they didn't have much of a personality coming into the show.

[00:12:18] With the exception of Vanjie.

[00:12:22] Well, they corrected that right away.

[00:12:26] So, Chris, wait, hold on.

[00:12:27] So, Chris, what is your overall life experience with drag?

[00:12:34] I'm well sum it up in five words.

[00:12:36] I'm kidding.

[00:12:37] Oh, five words.

[00:12:38] I don't know that I've seen drag race.

[00:12:41] Obviously, I've known who RuPaul is forever and I've gone to some I've gone to a drag bingo night.

[00:12:47] OK, you know, I I get it.

[00:12:50] I get what's what is fun and I get what is, you know, I I understand like why people like it.

[00:12:58] And I, to a certain extent, understand the culture.

[00:13:02] I'm not immersed in it.

[00:13:03] Sure, sure, sure.

[00:13:04] But you ask that because.

[00:13:06] Oh, no, I asked it because like what I love one.

[00:13:12] So what I love is that, like, I feel like drag is something at least when I was when I was starting to get into it a few years ago.

[00:13:21] This is around like season four of Drag Race with Sharon Needles is that like it was at the time for me, it was a way to like connect to like other queer culture and queer people.

[00:13:32] And over time, it's been a way to like really connect with like my straight friends who also love and appreciate drag.

[00:13:40] I remember going to Monsterpalooza with Matt and Horror Movie Night and the like three horror movie night guys just like having this most intense conversation about drag.

[00:13:51] And then Kyle showing up in a Glamazon tank top and me and Joshua, the two queers of the group were like look each other like what are what are we?

[00:14:00] Is this the future that liberals want?

[00:14:03] Is do we want that?

[00:14:05] I have a question as a straight.

[00:14:07] I want to I do want to understand a little bit more.

[00:14:10] Um, there are there obviously are some drag queens who are straight, right?

[00:14:15] It's a small percentile.

[00:14:17] All right.

[00:14:18] I think last year, I think last year was the first time in like 20 years of drag race that they had a straight drag queen as even a contestant.

[00:14:28] I'm way off base.

[00:14:29] Well, OK, so like at least on Drag Race, there was one like in the end in in like a the history of drag slash like all drag queens working right now in just the United States.

[00:14:43] I'm sure there are others.

[00:14:46] But when I think of like a straight drag queen, I think of mainly cis women like like women who had women born women who identify as women who do drag as an art form because that's because that's something that's very much out there.

[00:15:01] Yeah, that's what I meant, because it's it's an art form for sure.

[00:15:06] And you guys are going to think I'm a real idiot probably.

[00:15:09] But hey, I'm learning.

[00:15:10] I learned from one hit thunder.

[00:15:11] I didn't know until today that RuPaul was gay.

[00:15:15] I mean, I guess I should have known.

[00:15:17] I didn't know that RuPaul had a husband.

[00:15:19] I just knew that RuPaul was a drag queen and I didn't necessarily know that that meant that RuPaul was gay.

[00:15:26] So fascinating.

[00:15:27] And I mean, but like I understand what you're talking about, too, because like I the way that RuPaul's career started and especially like especially your post like capitalizing on the success

[00:15:42] of Supermodel to kind of bring us back to the topic, right?

[00:15:45] RuPaul like becomes this like icon, but no one really knows.

[00:15:52] Like it's very gay adjacent.

[00:15:54] It's a little tongue in cheek.

[00:15:55] Right. But like RuPaul as when you when you're out of drag and you're not the Supermodel of the world, like it you can kind of fly under the radar.

[00:16:06] Like it's kind of like I liken it to like kind of how in many ways Liberace was like not gay, but also very gay in the same way.

[00:16:15] But like it was never explicit.

[00:16:17] Like you have a lot of the icons of that time.

[00:16:19] And I think it's it's an interesting thing that modern fans like fans, longtime fans of RuPaul, specifically friends around my age,

[00:16:30] like we're able to have that.

[00:16:34] We're able to accept the duality of our

[00:16:37] like superstar in the sense that like we understand that she's done so much for queer people.

[00:16:42] But at the same time, she has had to compromise and not lead with her queerness in many ways or lead with the parts that like are very camp and stereotypical that like are palatable for like straight audiences and things.

[00:16:57] So it doesn't surprise it.

[00:16:59] Like it's both like I'm surprised, but I'm also not surprised given like how RuPaul started post supermodel.

[00:17:08] Well, yeah, that's the thing is that I think of RuPaul as a drag queen.

[00:17:12] I don't think of RuPaul as a gay person.

[00:17:15] And of course, it's both.

[00:17:17] Yeah, but it's totally both.

[00:17:19] I and I and I people might be screaming at their their podcast app right now, like, are you kidding me?

[00:17:24] You didn't know RuPaul was gay.

[00:17:26] But I've never seen RuPaul's husband.

[00:17:28] It's true.

[00:17:29] I was going to say that I think my I think my first exposure to RuPaul probably was actually the RuPaul talk show on VH1 because it would just be like on in the middle of the day in the summer.

[00:17:42] And I don't think I even because I didn't know what drag was.

[00:17:45] I literally just thought that this was a woman with a talk show.

[00:17:48] Like I didn't like like the idea that there was like anything that was out

[00:17:52] of the ordinary to my 10 year old brain just like didn't even click.

[00:17:56] I was just like, I think I remember thinking, why does this woman have a talk show on VH1?

[00:18:01] But like that was the extent of it.

[00:18:03] And it wasn't until like years later, I think in college is when I really started to piece things together because I rediscovered the song Supermodel and then was like, oh, RuPaul's a drag queen.

[00:18:14] And like started to learn about drag and like reverse engineered that all in my head.

[00:18:18] Sure. Let's talk about that.

[00:18:20] Let's talk about the song a little bit, because, you know, RuPaul was working in the Georgia club scene.

[00:18:27] You mentioned Wee Wee Pole, which is a really funny band name, by the way.

[00:18:31] I think that was I think that was RuPaul's punk band.

[00:18:34] But I'm not sure if it was when RuPaul was still in Atlanta or if it was when.

[00:18:39] Yes, it was. Perfect.

[00:18:40] Yeah, Wee Wee Pole. And if you if you Google pictures of of RuPaul from the Wee Wee Pole era, like.

[00:18:46] Fuck, first of all, fucking sexy, bearded queen, gender fuckery.

[00:18:52] And it's just it and she's talked about it on the show, too.

[00:18:55] She's shown pictures from from that.

[00:18:58] Also, I'm going to like I'm going to I'm going to intentionally but unintentionally

[00:19:03] refer to RuPaul by both male and female pronouns.

[00:19:05] So just I mean, Matt, we're talking about this beforehand is I don't know.

[00:19:11] Look, I never intentionally.

[00:19:13] Sure. Sometimes sometimes people are going to mess

[00:19:16] up, not with ill intent.

[00:19:18] They just don't know. But with RuPaul, I was like, but Matt explained it to me.

[00:19:22] When RuPaul is in drag, it's she.

[00:19:25] But when RuPaul is not a drag, it's he.

[00:19:27] Either way, it's it's fine.

[00:19:29] Yeah, totally.

[00:19:30] Either way, it's fine.

[00:19:31] And I honestly think that like it went in my mind the way I did.

[00:19:36] The delineation of my mind is when I talk

[00:19:38] about RuPaul, the icon or on the show, it's a she.

[00:19:41] But when I talk about RuPaul, the businessman,

[00:19:44] so when I'm like when I talk about RuPaul in the suit,

[00:19:47] in the workroom or like on the stage getting the Emmy, that's the he.

[00:19:50] Yeah, well, it's also I think RuPaul falls

[00:19:53] into an even weirder spot with that particular role because like

[00:19:59] and we're about to open up a whole can of worms for Chris.

[00:20:01] But like the concept of like mother,

[00:20:03] like it doesn't matter if RuPaul is in drag or not to so many people.

[00:20:09] RuPaul is their mother that like it doesn't matter.

[00:20:13] The her the her pronoun kind of gets

[00:20:16] tacked on there regardless on how they're presenting at that particular point

[00:20:22] in the show, because they the RuPaul opened up so many doors, which

[00:20:29] I'd be remiss to not say that there that does not mean that there that is

[00:20:33] without controversial opinions of RuPaul of what constitutes and does not constitute

[00:20:39] doing drag, she can she can be quite the drag gatekeeper.

[00:20:44] And it's only until recently that she's

[00:20:46] even let trans or they them people participate in the show.

[00:20:52] Because for a very long time, RuPaul was very vocal that

[00:20:56] she had she had some issues with the idea of a trans person being a drag queen.

[00:21:00] Yeah. And it was not great.

[00:21:02] That's that's that's kind of mind boggling to me to to be on such

[00:21:09] the the cutting edge of, I don't know, being out and being who you are.

[00:21:15] And then also being backwards in that way.

[00:21:18] I read about that, but I guess I guess RuPaul has changed her ways or which is

[00:21:24] which is good. She was willing to listen to the voice.

[00:21:28] I think the bigger thing was that past

[00:21:30] winners of RuPaul's Drag Race after the fact would come out as trans.

[00:21:35] And I think that's when.

[00:21:38] She kind of opened up her mind more to that, because it's it's kind of the same

[00:21:44] thing as like it's easy to be a bigot when you don't have anyone queer in your

[00:21:48] family and then suddenly when you're telling when it's someone that you see

[00:21:53] every single day, like your son or or a cousin or whatever, it makes

[00:21:59] some people, not all people, but some people start to have to open their mind now

[00:22:04] because it was a thing that they never had to think about.

[00:22:06] So it was much easier to hate on it versus when it's someone that you love

[00:22:10] that sitting across the table from you.

[00:22:12] And I do believe that RuPaul genuinely

[00:22:14] loves not every single person, but many, many, many of the contestants on her show.

[00:22:21] I think she does care about them and has

[00:22:23] a good relationship with them after the fact.

[00:22:26] And that I think allowed that door to be

[00:22:29] open and that dialogue to happen in a much easier way.

[00:22:34] Yeah, well, yeah.

[00:22:35] You know, it's all about empathy, all this stuff, like any anything.

[00:22:40] It's like, yeah, oh, I'm against gay marriage.

[00:22:42] Oh, until my kid or my son or my friend wants to get married.

[00:22:46] I'm like, OK, I'm not against anymore.

[00:22:48] I'm I'm against whatever.

[00:22:50] I'm against abortion until my, you know, till my wife's going to die or something.

[00:22:54] You know, all these things.

[00:22:56] There's even things probably people could throw back on me if I'm someone who's I

[00:23:01] you know, I don't know where I land on this particular topic.

[00:23:05] I go back and forth. But the death penalty.

[00:23:07] If someone I could say I'm against a death

[00:23:09] penalty and then someone whose family member was murdered could look at me

[00:23:13] and say, you're going to tell me that I that this part and I could be like, well,

[00:23:16] I can't really I can be as empathetic to that.

[00:23:19] So, yeah, that's that.

[00:23:21] That's true.

[00:23:22] But you were going to go so different.

[00:23:24] So you're going to think I was going to go.

[00:23:26] No, I was because I think of the stuff

[00:23:28] that you truly hate and it'd be like, you're like, you know, I could say that I

[00:23:33] hate hair, metal and country.

[00:23:34] And the next thing I know, my girlfriend's becoming a country star.

[00:23:38] And I've got to come to terms with it.

[00:23:39] We'd break up.

[00:23:42] See, that's the thing about like and thank you, Matt, for bringing that up.

[00:23:45] Like, you know, as especially like in early seasons, you have like

[00:23:50] you had like Soneek who was on one of like the first single digit seasons,

[00:23:54] in one of the single digit seasons that comes out as trans and like the in the

[00:23:59] reunion and then eventually returns to the show to win an All-Stars now fully as

[00:24:06] like a trans woman doing drag and and the thing that's always not broken my brain

[00:24:13] specifically with RuPaul when like the allegations and, you know, and not even

[00:24:18] allegations like the things that she's actually said in interviews

[00:24:22] in early interviews related to trans women competing in drag race is that like this

[00:24:28] is somebody who like has very vocally said that drag is about like gender fuckery.

[00:24:34] You're all born naked and the rest is drag.

[00:24:36] And if you but like when you take that to like its galaxy brain conclusion, right?

[00:24:42] Like then it really is.

[00:24:44] It really could be for anyone as long as there's that respect for

[00:24:48] the art form and for the history and everything.

[00:24:51] So and this is something that constantly

[00:24:54] like gets brought up on as a critique of drag race, because you have like queens

[00:25:02] that get on there that are very quirky and different from like a quote unquote

[00:25:06] mainstream, you know, Instagram kind of queen.

[00:25:08] And then you have like like they're being told to be themselves.

[00:25:12] But then like Michelle Visage out here

[00:25:14] saying to, you know, be sure to be cinched and to look as

[00:25:17] feminine as possible and don't wear pants and all this other stuff.

[00:25:20] So it's like it's it's really interesting.

[00:25:23] Plus, I also think that you guys brought in the perfect fan of drag race and RuPaul

[00:25:27] because like I can hold both the like her as an icon and what like what it means for

[00:25:32] me personally to have RuPaul and drag race and then also be like in the same breath.

[00:25:37] Very critical because that is just kind of who she is.

[00:25:41] And also RuPaul's a billionaire.

[00:25:43] So like we need.

[00:25:44] Yeah. Oh, really?

[00:25:46] Well, I'm pretty sure.

[00:25:48] Probably. Yeah.

[00:25:49] I'm pretty sure. Also, mainly because of the fracking.

[00:25:52] Like that's the big part is that RuPaul.

[00:25:54] That's another thing. RuPaul has a ranch in Wyoming where her husband George lives.

[00:25:59] Like they have a ranch in Wyoming and they do frack on that land.

[00:26:04] Oh boy. Hey, well, look, I want to talk about the song.

[00:26:08] But the one thing I do want to say that as

[00:26:10] the person on a little bit on the outside doesn't really watch drag race and stuff.

[00:26:14] What doesn't make sense to me about like this controversy about which I guess it's

[00:26:19] been resolved to a certain extent or whatever, but but that there ever was is

[00:26:23] just because someone's trans, it doesn't mean that they are dressing like or or,

[00:26:29] you know, putting on the whole drag queen person.

[00:26:32] Like that's it's two completely different things.

[00:26:35] It's it has nothing to do like just I don't know.

[00:26:38] No, it's so weird. You're totally right.

[00:26:40] It's just like being like being a trans woman.

[00:26:44] And I think that we saw this when Gottmik in I forget what season, maybe it was

[00:26:49] season 14 or 15, but maybe 13 even.

[00:26:53] But like Gottmik, who is a trans who's a trans man is like competing as like in

[00:27:00] drag and it's just like when they're out of drag, they're completely different from

[00:27:05] the persona in drag. And that's the thing is it's about the performance,

[00:27:08] the persona, the charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent.

[00:27:11] Had to wedge that in there somewhere.

[00:27:13] And so you're entirely right, Chris, about like it really it's not the same.

[00:27:18] Like you couldn't tell me that like Gottmik out of drag was like it like is very

[00:27:24] much like just a very like feminine presenting dude.

[00:27:27] Ninety nine point nine nine percent of trans people, I think it would just be

[00:27:32] like a normal person.

[00:27:34] It just the opposite sex.

[00:27:37] Just that that's it.

[00:27:38] They're not dressed. They're not like dressed.

[00:27:40] I mean, obviously, when you think of a drag queen, these, I don't know, crazy

[00:27:46] outfits and makeup and you know what I mean by crazy.

[00:27:49] Just just wild.

[00:27:51] Over the top, opulent, extravagant.

[00:27:54] That's what I'm looking at. Yes, exactly.

[00:27:56] And so I did double check.

[00:27:57] Gottmik was season 13.

[00:27:59] It was the 2020 season.

[00:28:01] Yes. And honestly, would have would have

[00:28:03] potentially won that season had it not been for the fact that Simone was also

[00:28:08] there, like they were both kind of equal sides of a very

[00:28:13] progressive coin of like what?

[00:28:16] Because I think that was like where I did get my some of the most interesting stuff

[00:28:21] in drag race at that time was like really bending what even is drag at that point.

[00:28:29] And like you were getting stuff like Gottmik was like, I think one of the one

[00:28:34] of the runways and I might be confusing this for a different person's runway.

[00:28:38] So apologies if I don't.

[00:28:39] You guys are getting really inside baseball.

[00:28:40] We're getting inside baseball.

[00:28:42] But one of one of the runway performances was like intestines dangling out of her

[00:28:47] stomach and like twirling the intestine like it was like a cane.

[00:28:51] And like that was the whole presentation.

[00:28:53] Like it was it was like, does this even count?

[00:28:56] Like there was so much like what what is where is that line and where can that line

[00:29:01] be broken that was like horror makeup? Yeah.

[00:29:04] Well, that's that's and then we get

[00:29:06] to get Dragula, which is the all horror themed drag show where it is that.

[00:29:11] But like it's the layers are crazy.

[00:29:13] Joe, I want to ask you a question about

[00:29:15] the song Supermodel as it pertains to some drag race quotes, too.

[00:29:21] But, you know, obviously a lot of the lines

[00:29:24] from this song become part of drag race history.

[00:29:28] Chris, I'm not sure if you know this,

[00:29:30] but when it comes down to the final two and RuPaul has to decide who stays and who

[00:29:33] goes, she tells one person that they can sashay stay and the other way.

[00:29:39] No, yes.

[00:29:40] Sashay away and the other one can shantay stay.

[00:29:43] OK, were these were these phrases because I've I hate to admit this.

[00:29:47] I still have not said seen Paris is burning.

[00:29:49] Were these catchphrases that existed prior

[00:29:52] to Supermodel or did Supermodel really in like embed them into the vernacular?

[00:29:57] I mean, well, let's be real.

[00:29:59] RuPaul invented RuPaul embedded it into

[00:30:02] the vernacular because we need to constantly remind people that this like

[00:30:07] it's because of this song, right? Like RuPaul is the master of

[00:30:11] of a catchphrase, of a promo, like of a soundbite, everything like that.

[00:30:16] And so like what I say that they are

[00:30:20] like what I say that I heard I've heard those phrases before

[00:30:25] before RuPaul's Drag Race and Supermodel.

[00:30:28] No.

[00:30:29] But to be honest with you, like my entire like my journey with drag starts

[00:30:35] at around season four.

[00:30:37] And then that was also around the time

[00:30:39] that I also watched like Paris is burning, which is not about drag,

[00:30:42] but it's about ballroom culture in the 80s, which like drag,

[00:30:48] which a lot of a lot from exactly drag queens draw a lot of inspiration from.

[00:30:53] But like just in general,

[00:30:56] like there is a lot of connection there.

[00:30:58] So we could be things that have been said

[00:31:01] by specifically by like the folks in the ballroom scene, a lot of ballroom slang,

[00:31:06] a lot of queer black, a lot of queer black

[00:31:11] vernacular, as well as like words that come from ballroom culture,

[00:31:16] get like co-opted and moved into drag race and drag and then like, you know,

[00:31:22] becomes mainstream.

[00:31:23] But to your point, Matt, like I'm like I'm the first time I ever heard Shantae

[00:31:28] and like, you know, Sashay.

[00:31:30] Well, it used in that I've heard Sashay many times.

[00:31:32] But like Shantae's day, Sashay away, all of that is.

[00:31:37] RuPaul knowing how to be a good like marketer of themselves.

[00:31:44] OK, because at its core, this song is mostly just music and RuPaul yelling

[00:31:51] cover these phrases like over top of the song, like just a bunch of catch.

[00:31:55] It's just a bunch of catchphrases.

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[00:33:16] Hi, listeners.

[00:33:17] I'm Carolina and I'm Tessa.

[00:33:20] And together we are Femme Regarde Podcast.

[00:33:23] Femme.

[00:33:24] We are a show dedicated to educating and

[00:33:28] entertaining underdeveloped filmmakers and film enthusiasts alike.

[00:33:32] We love sharing our experiences as filmmakers,

[00:33:34] what we've learned and what we've gone through.

[00:33:36] And we love bringing on professional industry guests.

[00:33:39] We want our listeners to learn from the best and get an honest account of the bids.

[00:33:43] So come join the Femme Fam and give us a listen every Friday.

[00:33:47] Streaming on all the major podcast

[00:33:49] platforms, including YouTube and our website, FemmeRegarde.com

[00:33:52] and of course, the GeekScape Network.

[00:33:55] I want to talk about the song.

[00:33:57] It came out in 1993 and it was

[00:34:01] it was produced by Larry T., who was the Berlin based DJ and club promoter

[00:34:07] and music producer who managed the Celebrity Club in Atlanta where Wee Wee

[00:34:13] Pole would play. And Larry T. is also responsible for

[00:34:18] now, it's called the Electro Clash scene in New York in the early 2000s.

[00:34:22] And he helped not only launch the career

[00:34:25] of RuPaul, but also Scissor Sisters and Peaches.

[00:34:29] Oh, like all these these acts are tied into each other.

[00:34:33] And it makes sense.

[00:34:34] And so when this song came out in 1993, I was surprised it peaked at number 45,

[00:34:41] which does fall outside of what we would normally call a hit.

[00:34:44] But still, that's no joke.

[00:34:46] Like number 45 on the Hot 100.

[00:34:48] That's for real.

[00:34:49] Number 39 on the UK singles chart.

[00:34:52] And this is very much in the heyday of MTV.

[00:34:55] We talk about that a lot where there are

[00:34:57] songs that to Matt and I, we say, hey, that was a hit because it was on MTV all

[00:35:02] the time that didn't always translate to the Billboard charts.

[00:35:06] But it did to me and Matt and everybody, millions of people.

[00:35:13] It seemed like that was like a huge song or a huge artist.

[00:35:16] This video had heavy rotation on MTV.

[00:35:19] Of course, I remember it at the time.

[00:35:21] And then RuPaul had appearances on shows

[00:35:24] like the Arsenio Hall show that helped even even more popularize the song.

[00:35:30] I was curious if RuPaul wrote the song.

[00:35:33] I was like, who did the music for this?

[00:35:35] Now I know RuPaul's on the top line track saying catchphrases and stuff, but who

[00:35:41] actually made this and wrote it?

[00:35:43] Well, RuPaul is credited as a writer, as is Larry T and Jimmy Harry.

[00:35:49] Now, Jimmy Harry, who I would assume was maybe the person behind the knobs and

[00:35:54] stuff, went on to be nominated for a Grammy for Best Female Pop Performance

[00:35:59] for his production of Pink's song Sober.

[00:36:02] So many years later, producing people like Pink.

[00:36:05] And also I thought it was interesting.

[00:36:07] I had never heard and maybe I did.

[00:36:11] I don't know, maybe deep in my mind I had

[00:36:13] heard one of the two other singles from RuPaul's debut album that was released

[00:36:19] on Tommy Boy, by the way, Back to My Roots and a Shade Shady Now Prance.

[00:36:24] Did you guys know these songs?

[00:36:26] I mean, I have this album, so I know these songs, but I didn't know them prior to

[00:36:30] buying the album. I bought the album maybe two or three years ago at a CD store.

[00:36:34] OK, well, Back to My Roots is a song, same sort of deal where it's RuPaul just kind

[00:36:41] of saying catchphrases over top of club dance music.

[00:36:45] But this one is about all different types of black women's hairstyles.

[00:36:50] So it'll be like Afro puffs and then the beat and then like, you know,

[00:36:55] just different types of hairstyles and then the Shade Shady Now Prance song.

[00:37:00] That's the one I feel like deep in the recesses of my mind.

[00:37:04] I kind of knew that song.

[00:37:06] But then after this album came out, RuPaul signed a modeling contract for MAC Cosmetics.

[00:37:11] Famous.

[00:37:13] Released an autobiography, like Matt said, was featured in the Brady Bunch movies.

[00:37:18] Then, of course, got his own VH1 show.

[00:37:22] And then his second album, Foxy Lady, was released in October of 1996 on Rhino Records.

[00:37:28] This album failed to chart in the Billboard 200.

[00:37:31] But the first single snapshot reached number 95 on the Hot 100.

[00:37:36] Then a year later, RuPaul released his Christmas album, Ho Ho Ho.

[00:37:42] And then this is what's most mind boggling to me.

[00:37:45] Since then has released 13 more albums, three of those being Christmas albums.

[00:37:53] The discography runs deep.

[00:37:56] Well, so here's here's the thing, and I can explain this.

[00:37:59] And I think Joe knows where I'm going with this.

[00:38:01] And I told you a little bit about this.

[00:38:04] As RuPaul Drag Race, the show blew up.

[00:38:08] I think RuPaul also saw a free marketing ability for every new album because time

[00:38:15] and time again, prizes on that or competitions on that show are to film

[00:38:22] a music video for the new single off the new album.

[00:38:25] And we get a lot of like.

[00:38:28] Some great most not most songs that I was so scared for a second when Matt told me

[00:38:37] we were doing this song, what you say was I said superstar by mistake.

[00:38:41] He said superstar.

[00:38:42] So I'm not the carpenters.

[00:38:44] No, she has a song called Superstar 2 and it's bad.

[00:38:47] Oh, oh man.

[00:38:48] I put it on.

[00:38:49] I'm like, we can't do this.

[00:38:51] And then I realized I'm like, no, supermodel.

[00:38:53] Of course, superstar.

[00:38:56] Not a good RuPaul song.

[00:38:57] But I did text you what my favorite RuPaul song is.

[00:39:00] Joe, do you know what my favorite RuPaul song is?

[00:39:03] Actually, I don't think I know your favorite RuPaul song.

[00:39:05] It's as soon as I say it, you'll be like, that makes sense.

[00:39:08] It's RuPaul and Big Freedia's Peanut Butter.

[00:39:13] That's a pretty good song.

[00:39:15] I got to admit that.

[00:39:19] Does Big Freedia have a music career too?

[00:39:22] You want to bring me back for Big Freedia?

[00:39:25] We can talk about Big Freedia.

[00:39:26] Here's how my Freedia's biggest song.

[00:39:28] Well, I don't know what Big Freedia's

[00:39:30] biggest song is, but Big Freedia is on three different Ke$ha albums.

[00:39:34] Big Freedia.

[00:39:34] Also, there's a Drake song that samples Big Freedia.

[00:39:38] Oh, it's nice for what?

[00:39:41] Yeah, yeah.

[00:39:42] That samples.

[00:39:43] I think that song samples the Peanut Butter song.

[00:39:45] Maybe that's what it is.

[00:39:46] Here's the other thing with stuff,

[00:39:48] Chris, is most drag queens have recording contracts.

[00:39:52] Okay.

[00:39:53] I would say at least if we're like 20 seasons into Drag Race,

[00:39:58] I'd say at least 10 of the winners are musicians.

[00:40:02] Everyone now they do a talent show and people sing or have released their own

[00:40:09] tracks, and I'm like, okay, we're flooding the market.

[00:40:13] Before I felt like duty bound to listen to Drag Race girls music.

[00:40:19] And now there's just so much that I'm like, no, not everything is good.

[00:40:24] But is it always just a bit club beats with catchphrases?

[00:40:28] No.

[00:40:29] Trixie Mattel is like a country star.

[00:40:32] Yeah, actually, Chris,

[00:40:34] I would recommend you listen to some of Trixie Mattel stuff because

[00:40:39] they are like country bluegrass.

[00:40:42] They're from Wisconsin.

[00:40:44] That's all of their roots.

[00:40:45] They play instruments.

[00:40:46] And what's interesting is that her first two albums are very much in that vein.

[00:40:51] And then you realize, oh, she's actually a good musician.

[00:40:56] She has a song that came out recently called This Town.

[00:41:00] That's about growing up in a small town.

[00:41:04] It's very like it's very like indie movie driving through your town and

[00:41:12] reminiscing kind of vibes.

[00:41:14] That's also the music video.

[00:41:16] And at the same time,

[00:41:18] Trixie Mattel also has a song about Jesse Eisenberg called Jesse Jesse.

[00:41:23] Oh, wow.

[00:41:25] I did not expect you to say that.

[00:41:28] It's actually really fun and it's really fun and it's really good.

[00:41:32] I think the crazy thing to think about, though, with the song Supermodel is.

[00:41:39] That like there was a much higher chance,

[00:41:43] a much, much higher chance that this song comes out is maybe popular in like

[00:41:49] the underground gay club scene and that no has no like effect whatsoever.

[00:41:56] You know what I mean?

[00:41:56] Like makes absolutely no waves in mainstream media.

[00:42:01] And I can't help but wonder genuinely how different so many elements of society

[00:42:08] would be without this, because it really is like as much as Joe says,

[00:42:14] like part of RuPaul's success was kind of hiding the queerness behind it all.

[00:42:20] Like it's still undeniably there.

[00:42:23] And RuPaul's been such a big you despite everything,

[00:42:28] despite like the occasionally transphobic comments and all of that stuff.

[00:42:34] It is undeniable the effect of drag races,

[00:42:40] undeniable popularity with getting a lot of people who could not wrap their heads

[00:42:45] around homosexuality to have an understanding of it in a bigger way,

[00:42:50] because it was that show that you didn't like the people who were.

[00:42:55] There was a lot of people who are watching

[00:42:56] drag race who were just like random middle of the America straight women.

[00:43:02] And it was this like eye opening,

[00:43:04] like like I think that there is a direct correlation between drag race and a lot

[00:43:09] of positive things in gay culture happening and acceptance.

[00:43:14] A lot of that seems to be going out the fucking window in the last five years.

[00:43:18] But like the the world where RuPaul Supermodel isn't a top 50 radio hit,

[00:43:26] I think is a much more fucked up world ultimately in 2020.

[00:43:32] Can Joe, can you draw a line back to this song becoming, you know,

[00:43:39] a minor hit and putting RuPaul into the into the world to a higher level of acceptance?

[00:43:49] I don't do you think that that because I just think that without this song,

[00:43:52] we don't get the talk show. We don't get her on Arsenio.

[00:43:55] We don't get like the the cultural interest in RuPaul,

[00:44:00] the person where we get to a show like drag race eventually.

[00:44:03] So this is such this is such a good conversation.

[00:44:08] It was not the conversation I was prepared to have, but it is a conversation that's

[00:44:12] important, I think, like when I think about why it's when I think about making

[00:44:18] strides from a policy level, from like a national federal level in terms

[00:44:22] of like acceptance, I think about when Obama and like ran the first time and like

[00:44:28] specifically cited watching Will and Grace like as as a way.

[00:44:32] That's what I think about.

[00:44:33] I think RuPaul had still up until up until like maybe season five,

[00:44:42] season six of Drag Race was still someone who was like a camp icon on the periphery.

[00:44:49] Right. Because VH1 is not like VH1 isn't basic cable is basic cable.

[00:44:55] I don't know, but like it's not to pay for it.

[00:44:58] But it's not part of it's not part of paying for like HBO still niche

[00:45:02] and the explicit queerness of like a show like Drag Race because like Drag Race

[00:45:08] started on Logo like nothing really happened on Logo.

[00:45:12] And it was and I think where we start to get to mainstream representation of drag

[00:45:17] is when it's picked up by VH1 and then ultimately by MTV where it sits right now.

[00:45:24] Right. Drag Race does.

[00:45:25] And so having it be on Logo, which is still very niche,

[00:45:29] kind of like still puts it in like I wouldn't I wouldn't necessarily.

[00:45:35] It's gone away of like massive strides.

[00:45:37] It's definitely done a lot for representation, but like.

[00:45:42] It's not until like where we are in the current moment and even then,

[00:45:47] like the current moment of Drag Race is so interesting because like

[00:45:52] you get a lot of critique from fans, from longtime fans and even younger,

[00:45:58] newer fans where it's like they're the demographic for Drag Race is mainly

[00:46:03] like straight white women in there, like, you know, from the ages.

[00:46:08] Really? Yeah.

[00:46:09] From the from the ages of like early 20s to their mid 40s, early 50s.

[00:46:15] OK, I guess I I guess I kind of knew that.

[00:46:18] But like it's it's interesting because it's like and then you have like

[00:46:22] they they become fans and then and people who only know drag through.

[00:46:27] But what it creates is that people who only know drag through Drag Race and then

[00:46:32] you have like, you know, they get into arguments on

[00:46:35] on the social media with like actual drag queens.

[00:46:38] And it's like the culture of drag,

[00:46:41] especially now and especially among working queens, is so is not is so

[00:46:47] different and it's like what you see on the TV is just a taste.

[00:46:50] Right.

[00:46:51] And so the hope is that hope now is that the show will propel those working girls

[00:46:57] into a different level to be to be doing their work on a different level.

[00:47:02] Right.

[00:47:04] And but I wouldn't I don't that's such an

[00:47:06] interesting concept that like I don't think you get to more widespread

[00:47:12] acceptance without RuPaul being in the consciousness, just being in the culture,

[00:47:17] just because of representation.

[00:47:19] But I think that like it is it is still something that even at this time for

[00:47:27] supermodel, it's still so niche because people are afraid.

[00:47:31] Right. AIDS crisis is still raging.

[00:47:34] Like we were people are still afraid of that kind of of what that openness means.

[00:47:42] And I think that it also turns into a full butterfly effect conversation of like,

[00:47:46] does willing grace get created if RuPaul doesn't have a talk show two or three

[00:47:51] years earlier? You know what I mean? Like there's a whole bunch of stuff like that

[00:47:55] before this conversation.

[00:47:57] And once again, you have to excuse any

[00:47:59] ignorance I have just trying to learn for sure.

[00:48:01] Before this conversation, I would have been very hesitant to conflate drag with gay.

[00:48:11] I would have thought that I would have thought that me assuming that drag,

[00:48:17] I would have felt like I would offended gay people saying that I did.

[00:48:20] I because until you guys told me, I assumed that maybe I mean, obviously,

[00:48:27] some of these drag queens are gay men, but I would have assumed that there were

[00:48:33] like a bunch of just straight men that like to dress up in drag until you told me this

[00:48:39] today, that there's only been like one contestant.

[00:48:42] I did. I would have thought like, oh, don't those two things are their own thing.

[00:48:47] And of course, there are gay people that

[00:48:50] are in the drag world and love drag and everything.

[00:48:53] But I would have not necessarily put those two things together.

[00:48:58] But you're saying that they kind of go hand in hand.

[00:49:01] Well, drag goes hand in hand with gay.

[00:49:03] I mean, so like a brief history of drag.

[00:49:06] So like one thing RuPaul has said this on the show.

[00:49:09] I've not verified this. I'm not a historian.

[00:49:11] So, you know, but one of the supposed origins

[00:49:14] of drag is that it does come from like Shakespeare, right?

[00:49:17] Like in Shakespearean times, the men,

[00:49:20] male actors also portrayed the female roles.

[00:49:23] And so it was drag was an acronym dressed resembling a girl.

[00:49:29] That is one of the supposed origins, another origin.

[00:49:33] And this is the one that I've recently

[00:49:35] learned and have come to accept as a more accepted origin, is that there was a

[00:49:41] there was a black person.

[00:49:46] And I forget I forget the exact.

[00:49:47] But it was like in hundreds of years ago,

[00:49:49] there was an American black person who dressed up for the first like dressed up

[00:49:54] in a dress and it was so opulent and big that like they want they they made it

[00:49:59] that way because they wanted it to drag.

[00:50:01] They wanted it specifically to drag across the floor.

[00:50:04] And so that is like, oh, that's where you get one of the that's one

[00:50:08] of the more supposed things.

[00:50:10] And Matt, I will find the I'll find the name if unless you found it already.

[00:50:14] I will know.

[00:50:15] But I was going to say part of me and I could be totally wrong.

[00:50:18] This could literally be a thing I just

[00:50:21] imagined and create it in my head and it has no factual bearing at all.

[00:50:28] But at one point, my mom was asking me like, but why?

[00:50:31] You know, because my mom wants to be

[00:50:34] she doesn't want to ever push anyone away, but she wants to understand.

[00:50:38] And she was asking me, like, but why drag?

[00:50:40] Like what? Like what? For what purpose?

[00:50:43] And I was under the impression.

[00:50:45] And again, this is coming from a straight white guy.

[00:50:48] So I can be like, I can't wait to hear what the straight white guy has to say.

[00:50:53] But I was under the impression that at least the origins of drag potentially was

[00:50:58] in a long time ago when being femme presenting was a very bad thing,

[00:51:06] that drag was a way to blend in and not let your your feminine ways kind of tell

[00:51:14] on you in public.

[00:51:16] And then like the actual idea of drag

[00:51:18] performers was like taking that and being like, we don't have to be ashamed about

[00:51:22] this, we don't have to hide.

[00:51:24] And it like became the idea of not trying to blend in, but to stand out

[00:51:29] almost as a rebelling of that original thing.

[00:51:32] But I have I have no clue where that came from.

[00:51:35] Like, I'm sure I heard that somewhere

[00:51:38] 20 years ago and just accepted it as fact and that it's been like super disproven.

[00:51:42] But it makes sense in my head, like that in the 1800s, if you were very

[00:51:48] effeminate and it could get you in some serious trouble or killed that like one

[00:51:53] way to not be as noticed as if you were able to convincingly dress like a woman

[00:51:58] and present like that out to pass about.

[00:52:01] Yeah.

[00:52:03] And then like the the the the divine style

[00:52:08] of drag was kind of a rebellion against that of like, fuck that.

[00:52:12] I don't I want people to notice that I am different and out there.

[00:52:17] But like kind of taking this thing and

[00:52:20] taking this, quote unquote, defense mechanism and twisted, turning it on its head.

[00:52:24] It becomes less about passing and more about I'm

[00:52:27] it becomes less about passing and more about fucking with gender in the and the

[00:52:33] idea of a gender binary. Right.

[00:52:35] And so you have people where it's like the girls who want to pass whether that's

[00:52:40] and, you know, and again, like we know that there is definitely a correlation

[00:52:45] between like when you start to play with gender in your present in your performance

[00:52:49] and your presentation of it, you also start to think about your gender

[00:52:52] identity a little bit differently and it starts to normalize a couple of those things.

[00:52:57] So in like when you talk about divine, right, it's like divine

[00:53:02] also played with that a little bit and then and it completely entirely relates

[00:53:06] to the punk nature of it and all of John Waters with, you know,

[00:53:10] just the general camp of it.

[00:53:13] Sorry, I found the name of the person.

[00:53:15] So it was William Dorsey Swan, who was a born who was born enslaved in Maryland

[00:53:23] is Wiley was the first person to refer to himself as the queen of drag,

[00:53:29] specifically because of the drag of the dresses.

[00:53:32] And in the 1880s would host drag balls in D.C.,

[00:53:37] often also attended by formerly enslaved people.

[00:53:41] Sidebar, you don't have to record you have to put this in the recording.

[00:53:44] But the reason why I know this is because I work for Pride.

[00:53:47] I work for San Diego Pride and we have a I realize that we have a presentation

[00:53:52] that we gave to our youth program about the history of drag.

[00:53:56] So I was like, let me access the drive and right now and see what we have.

[00:53:59] There you go.

[00:54:01] It's good to know the actual facts and I'm learning a lot from this episode,

[00:54:06] actually, and I want to kind of I was thinking I kind of want to test how much

[00:54:12] you to know, oh, God, Joe's going to kill me.

[00:54:14] All right, let's do this trivia.

[00:54:16] I got a little game and I love being gamed.

[00:54:20] I love you're going to get gamed so hard right now.

[00:54:23] This is a RuPaul game.

[00:54:25] OK, so Matt, you might not get as crushed as you think you might.

[00:54:29] I mean, you're both fans of RuPaul.

[00:54:31] So we just got to decide how you're going to buzz in.

[00:54:35] Somebody should probably be you better work.

[00:54:37] Well, I was going to say one could be Sashay and one could be Shantae.

[00:54:40] I feel like that's the oh my God.

[00:54:42] I'll let I'll let you pick which one do you want to yell out?

[00:54:46] Actually, can my but you know what my buzzword I will say I'll say Shantae.

[00:54:51] OK, and I'll say Sashay.

[00:54:53] Can you say that, Matt?

[00:54:54] Sashay, Sashay.

[00:54:56] So there we go. There we go.

[00:54:57] Before we do this, Matt, I was thinking about if someone made a song like this of

[00:55:01] you and I with like a club beat with just us saying our catchphrases over top of it,

[00:55:05] what they would be. And I think one of mine would just be laughing and saying the word

[00:55:09] like in the middle of my life.

[00:55:10] Like like not finish your thought.

[00:55:13] That would definitely be one of them.

[00:55:14] One of them would be would be right off the bat.

[00:55:17] Yeah. You say that every episode.

[00:55:20] I don't know what mine would be, but I'm sure I have plenty of them.

[00:55:22] OK, you guys ready?

[00:55:24] Yes. Let's do it. Here we go.

[00:55:25] Question one. In twenty seventeen, RuPaul had a recurring role as a Lionel on this

[00:55:32] show based on the life of Sofia Amoruso.

[00:55:38] I'm trying to think of a show from twenty seventeen.

[00:55:43] I'm just I'm going to OK, I'm going to

[00:55:46] Sashay.

[00:55:48] Go ahead. Was it that AJ and the Queen?

[00:55:53] That is incorrect.

[00:55:54] OK, no.

[00:55:56] Um, could you repeat?

[00:55:58] I love this show.

[00:56:00] In twenty seventeen, RuPaul had a recurring role as a Lionel on this show based on the

[00:56:06] life of Sofia Amoruso, a great show.

[00:56:14] It only lasted one season.

[00:56:16] OK, so this was an Emily in Paris.

[00:56:18] I'm like, what shows do I know Chris loves that I haven't watched?

[00:56:21] OK, Shantae, I'm only going to I know this is the wrong answer, but it's the only I

[00:56:27] it's the only thing I can see RuPaul in in a TV show.

[00:56:30] It happy endings.

[00:56:34] That is incorrect.

[00:56:36] It was actually Girl Boss.

[00:56:38] Oh, yes.

[00:56:40] Yes, you're right.

[00:56:42] That's right.

[00:56:43] That shows really funny.

[00:56:45] I'm really disappointed it got canceled because that was about the if you don't

[00:56:50] know who Sofia Amoruso is, she's who started Nasty Gal.

[00:56:53] And it was about how she like started the company and stuff.

[00:56:56] And it was really funny.

[00:56:58] I think it's still on Netflix.

[00:56:59] I think that's what it's all about.

[00:57:00] The first season is worth watching.

[00:57:02] A Jim Rash is on it.

[00:57:03] If you're a Jim Rash fan, Jim Rash, he's very own.

[00:57:07] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:08] My sexual Jim Rash.

[00:57:10] Oh, really?

[00:57:12] He's queer of some sort.

[00:57:13] Yes. But OK.

[00:57:15] Yeah, I mean, I just knew his character on Community, which that was a big part of his

[00:57:21] character was what what is his sexuality?

[00:57:24] Also in twenty seventeen, RuPaul appeared as Marcel on three episodes of this Comedy

[00:57:31] Central series or so Comedy Central series.

[00:57:35] Shantay.

[00:57:37] This is entirely a guess, but I'm going to say it's Broad City.

[00:57:40] That's correct. Damn it.

[00:57:43] That show is also how Broad City is great.

[00:57:46] I forgot that RuPaul was on Broad City.

[00:57:48] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:50] OK, Joe's up one.

[00:57:52] OK.

[00:57:53] Question three, this member of the dance pop girl group Seduction co-hosted the

[00:58:00] show, Michelle Visage, Michelle Visage.

[00:58:04] Damn it. You got it.

[00:58:06] I heard you drop her name before.

[00:58:08] I didn't know if that was someone that everyone knew.

[00:58:10] Yeah, I don't know who it is.

[00:58:12] She's RuPaul's best friend and is usually usually the co-host on all of Drag Race.

[00:58:18] OK, Joe, you're right.

[00:58:21] Maybe Joe is going to crush you.

[00:58:22] Yeah, no, I knew that what I just did wasn't in time.

[00:58:25] All right.

[00:58:26] Question for RuPaul appeared in Taylor Swift's twenty nineteen music video for

[00:58:34] what song? Shantay, you need to calm down.

[00:58:36] You got it. Wow.

[00:58:38] Everyone gay was in that music video.

[00:58:42] All right, well, Joe won, but I'll do the last two questions just for fun.

[00:58:47] Question five, RuPaul hosted SNL in February of twenty twenty.

[00:58:53] Who was the musical guest?

[00:58:56] OK, Shantay, it was Justin Bieber.

[00:59:01] You got it.

[00:59:03] Four nothing. Matt is getting smoked.

[00:59:06] I remember thinking this is so insane to have Justin Bieber be the guest host for

[00:59:11] RuPaul or the musical guest for RuPaul.

[00:59:15] Oh, God. All right.

[00:59:16] You should have had RuPaul be the musical guest for RuPaul.

[00:59:19] Work.

[00:59:21] You better work.

[00:59:22] Can you imagine?

[00:59:23] Like that time? I will never forget.

[00:59:26] This is my favorite SNL dumb episode was when Garth Brooks host it.

[00:59:30] But Chris Gaines was the musical guest.

[00:59:33] Oh, yeah.

[00:59:35] That was sort of like drag.

[00:59:40] What's it called when you just pretend to be some other guy?

[00:59:45] Okay.

[00:59:46] Question six, who was the winner of the first season of RuPaul's Drag Race?

[00:59:52] God damn it.

[00:59:53] I don't remember Joe in it because Matt.

[00:59:55] No, I genuinely don't remember.

[00:59:57] I know that this is the winner that never comes back.

[01:00:01] Right.

[01:00:01] This is the one that this winner has come back.

[01:00:03] That's why.

[01:00:05] Fuck. Is it season two?

[01:00:06] Isn't there like an early winner that has cut ties entirely with the show?

[01:00:11] That's season two, but not season two.

[01:00:13] I can't remember who season one is.

[01:00:15] I don't like the first few seasons.

[01:00:17] It's got that weird jelly blur across the screen.

[01:00:20] They did it in RuPaul's Garage.

[01:00:21] I don't know if they actually did in RuPaul's Garage.

[01:00:24] That's always what people say for the season one.

[01:00:27] It's BB Zahara Benet.

[01:00:30] You got it. Wow.

[01:00:32] Joe, other than that first question, Joe just swept.

[01:00:35] Here's the thing.

[01:00:36] BB Zahara Benet.

[01:00:37] So the first three queens would have been BB Zahara Benet.

[01:00:41] And then in that final was

[01:00:46] it was BB Zahara Benet against Rebecca Glasscock,

[01:00:51] which is like one of my just the most insane name for a queen.

[01:00:57] And then the queen you're thinking about,

[01:01:00] Matt, is probably Tyra. Tyra Sanchez.

[01:01:04] The other Tyra. Yes.

[01:01:05] Because she has since come out as like has basically said,

[01:01:10] like, I'm not doing drag anymore.

[01:01:13] And I don't know if like I don't know exactly what happened there,

[01:01:18] but like is is one of the more vocal winners that is not like a fan.

[01:01:23] All right. Well, Joe smashed in that in that game.

[01:01:26] That's the worst you've ever got.

[01:01:27] That is the worst I've ever been destroyed.

[01:01:29] But I had a feeling that that was going to be the case.

[01:01:33] So here's the big part of the show.

[01:01:36] We got to decide.

[01:01:38] Is RuPaul, did RuPaul bring the thunder or was RuPaul a blunder?

[01:01:44] And I actually don't know how to answer on this because I guess we should say

[01:01:48] musically speaking, musically, let's be fair, because that's where I'm having a

[01:01:52] that's where I'm having a struggle, because RuPaul the person,

[01:01:56] I do think I would lean more towards thunder than blunder.

[01:02:00] I have enjoyed many seasons of Drag Race.

[01:02:03] I always get a delight when RuPaul shows up in a movie and TV show.

[01:02:08] As far as the music career goes, I'm going to let Joe answer first.

[01:02:15] You're well, I'm going to say RuPaul brings the thunder, OK?

[01:02:18] And here's why.

[01:02:20] Like, hold on. I hold on.

[01:02:22] Here are my so my favorite.

[01:02:24] I was looking at my iTunes, you know, on iTunes and like I have like the plays of

[01:02:33] her songs. Oh, my God.

[01:02:35] Like Born Naked, I've listened to over a hundred times.

[01:02:39] Cover Girl from season one of Drag Race over almost over a hundred times.

[01:02:44] I like that you have stats.

[01:02:46] I like that you have the stats.

[01:02:47] I love knowing because like for me,

[01:02:49] if I don't listen to a song and it's in a playlist, I look at the plays and then I

[01:02:53] immediately just like delete it because if I've never listened to it, then what's

[01:02:57] the point?

[01:02:59] This is this is an elder millennial concern with data.

[01:03:04] But then you have like songs that are just like really, just really fun.

[01:03:08] Adrenaline is really good.

[01:03:13] You have like the what is it?

[01:03:16] Step It Up, where you're talking about

[01:03:18] stepping your pussy up like that step, step it up.

[01:03:21] It's really good. And these are songs, again,

[01:03:23] from a few years ago, not really sure about like the new stuff that's coming out.

[01:03:28] But also I really do love RuPaul's Christmas album, too.

[01:03:31] She has a song with Michelle Visage called From Your Heart.

[01:03:34] That's really sweet.

[01:03:36] And she does a cover of Hard Candy Christmas,

[01:03:38] Dolly Parton's Hard Candy Christmas on Ho Ho Ho.

[01:03:41] That's also really fun, too.

[01:03:42] So to me, RuPaul does bring the thunder.

[01:03:45] It's not great.

[01:03:46] Like that's the other thing, too.

[01:03:48] It's not good, but it hits in a very different way.

[01:03:52] It hits a very specific way that I love.

[01:03:54] It's camp, right?

[01:03:55] We've used that word.

[01:03:57] I am going to give a begrudging thunder

[01:03:59] because I don't have the love for as many of those songs.

[01:04:03] Like I've there's maybe like three or four RuPaul songs that are in my regular rotation.

[01:04:10] OK, what are they, though? Name them.

[01:04:12] Name them.

[01:04:13] Well, Supermodel, Peanut Butter.

[01:04:16] Like it's the ones that show up every single week on Drag Race.

[01:04:21] Click, click.

[01:04:22] Yeah, like it's like those are the ones that are like stuck in my head.

[01:04:25] Joe, I just want to throw this out there because it blew my mind.

[01:04:28] I was just scrolling through RuPaul's filmography.

[01:04:32] Did you did you know that RuPaul was

[01:04:35] in the Disney Channel original movie Zombies 3 two years ago as the voice

[01:04:42] of the alien mothership?

[01:04:44] That.

[01:04:47] No, first of all, I just thought that you would.

[01:04:50] I just thought you would be entertained

[01:04:52] by the fact that RuPaul plays mothership in a Disney Channel original movie.

[01:04:57] RuPaul is mother and a piece of ship.

[01:04:58] So, you know, it's yes.

[01:05:00] The year prior, the year prior, she starred in The Bitch Who Stole Christmas.

[01:05:07] She did.

[01:05:07] She played like yeah, that was what a time.

[01:05:12] What a time.

[01:05:13] There's we've been hit up by a few different people who really,

[01:05:16] really want to talk about the bitch who stole Christmas for Christmas 365.

[01:05:20] We may just have to bring a whole panel of humans for that.

[01:05:23] Honestly, if you can get a queen to do it,

[01:05:26] you should get a queen to talk about it because it's so

[01:05:30] like the bitch who stole Christmas is not good either.

[01:05:33] But again, it's the camp of it.

[01:05:34] It doesn't need to be good.

[01:05:36] The fact that it's not good and it actually makes it kind of makes it good.

[01:05:40] Like, come on, Chris.

[01:05:41] Oh yeah, Chris, please certify it.

[01:05:45] I would say that I'm impressed that RuPaul has put out like 20 albums.

[01:05:53] It wasn't I mean, and I was shocked to learn that this song that we're talking

[01:05:59] about today is what launched the career of RuPaul more or less.

[01:06:03] This was the first big, huge break.

[01:06:06] I think this is a much bigger break than being in the Love Shack video.

[01:06:09] Yeah. And

[01:06:11] so that part of it is cool.

[01:06:13] And the song, I don't think the song's really gone away.

[01:06:17] The song had a huge cultural impact.

[01:06:19] And I would maybe go blunder if it wasn't for then years and years later, peanut butter.

[01:06:26] I would say that you at some point along the way, there was another song that found

[01:06:32] its way into the culture, into my ears at least.

[01:06:36] And I can't deny that's a pretty funny song.

[01:06:39] So I would say Thunder.

[01:06:40] I would say it'd be ridiculous not to throw Thunder on RuPaul's name.

[01:06:43] You're going to start pride out by calling RuPaul a blunder, Matt.

[01:06:47] Come on. I gave it a thunder.

[01:06:49] OK, a begrudging thunder.

[01:06:51] It was a begrudging thunder.

[01:06:53] Well, Joe, real quick before we totally sign off, if people really enjoyed

[01:06:57] listening to you and your perspective on all things,

[01:07:00] what are some of the podcasts that they can subscribe to?

[01:07:03] Well, you can subscribe to my other podcast that I do with Matt.

[01:07:07] It's called White People Problems, an OC recap podcast where we talk about episodes

[01:07:13] of the OC. I am forcing Matt to watch them and Matt has never seen them.

[01:07:18] And Matt has a lot of opinions that I share and I hear his sympathies as well.

[01:07:26] You can also find me on also on the Geek C.A.

[01:07:30] Network. You can find me at Fright School where I

[01:07:32] talk about horror movies and queerness with my co-host Joshua.

[01:07:37] You can also find me on an earlier episode

[01:07:39] of this podcast where I talk about we're talking about Kaya.

[01:07:44] My oh yeah,

[01:07:47] my neck, my back, my neck, my back.

[01:07:49] I think I had such an impassioned speech

[01:07:52] about how you don't get WAP if you don't have my neck, my back.

[01:07:57] Yep, that's right. I think you're right.

[01:07:58] All right. Well, we will be back next week with even more one hit thunder.

[01:08:11] Yeah, I'm on you like a wig.

[01:08:20] This has been one hit thunder.

[01:08:21] One hit thunder is hosted by Chris Afayos of the band Punchline and produced

[01:08:25] by Matt Kelly of Geekscape.net. Underneath me,

[01:08:28] you're hearing Answer Me off the Punchline album Thrilled.

[01:08:31] Visit PunchlineMusic.com for any upcoming news on the band.

[01:08:35] Our podcast is on Patreon now.

[01:08:36] Find us at Patreon.com backslash OHT podcast for early access to episodes,

[01:08:42] bonus conversations and a chance to vote on future songs for us to cover.

[01:08:46] Be sure to rate, review and subscribe to us on any podcasting app

[01:08:50] and tune in next week for more one hit thunder.

[01:09:58] I don't think it overstates things to say that the Beatles were the greatest gift

[01:10:31] to entertainment and culture of our time, a secular religion, if you will,

[01:10:36] with their universal appeal and demonstrable impact on people's lives.

[01:10:40] I'm Robert Rodriguez, host of Something About the Beatles.

[01:10:44] With every episode, I speak with historians, musicians,

[01:10:48] artists and Beatle witnesses all in the service of fresh insights

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