The Next Best Theatre Podcast: Episode 54 - The 2024 Tony Award Nominations

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[00:00:07] Dear Evan Hinton

[00:00:08] Memphis

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[00:00:10] Avenue Q

[00:00:11] Hamilton

[00:00:12] Leopold Staff

[00:00:14] Hello and welcome to Next Best Theater, part of the Next Best Picture Podcast.

[00:00:19] I'm your host, Cody Derricks, and I'm here to talk about the nominations for the 77th Tony Awards, representing the 2023-24 Broadway season.

[00:00:29] We're going to do a little reaction episode here and get some predictions a little bit later.

[00:00:33] And I just want to start by going around the horn and saying what we've seen so far.

[00:00:38] Let me just introduce everybody first.

[00:00:39] We have Lauren La Magna.

[00:00:41] Hi everyone.

[00:00:42] We have Dan Bayer.

[00:00:44] Hello, hello, hello.

[00:00:47] Oh my God, beautiful.

[00:00:49] And coming to us from the West Coast, but briefly was on the East Coast.

[00:00:54] We have Tom O'Brien.

[00:00:56] Hi everybody.

[00:00:58] Let's start with Lauren.

[00:01:00] I know you haven't seen anything from the season, you know, grad school.

[00:01:03] I guess that's a good reason to be a little busy.

[00:01:05] I know.

[00:01:06] It's so lame and boring.

[00:01:08] But what do you think of these overall nominations in the season in general?

[00:01:12] This season excites me and terrifies me just from the sheer quantity of it.

[00:01:17] I kind of love how there's so many shows running right now and everything is kind of buzzing on Broadway,

[00:01:24] which is really exciting that we have these many shows and a lot of people that I know that aren't major, you know,

[00:01:31] Broadway fans or theater buffs are going to the theater to see all these different shows,

[00:01:35] which is really, really exciting.

[00:01:37] So I'm happy about that, that there's all of these numbers and all of these performances that kind of go across what musical theater

[00:01:45] and Broadway productions do.

[00:01:48] So that's really exciting about this season.

[00:01:50] And in terms of the nominations, I think for the most part they've done a pretty good job at kind of spreading the wealth.

[00:01:57] I was nervous about what this grand number was going to mean in terms of nominations.

[00:02:03] And of course we have underperformers and overperformers, but I think most of them termed out pretty good.

[00:02:09] Not only a couple shows got totally shut out, which I think is pretty good for, you know, again,

[00:02:16] the amount of shows that were eligible this season.

[00:02:18] So overall, I am pretty happy with how this turned out, even with, you know, the shocks and surprises that come with every slew of nominations that happen.

[00:02:29] Awesome. Dan, what did you see this season and what are your thoughts?

[00:02:33] So I saw a few things that did not do very well with the Tonys, honestly.

[00:02:40] I saw Gutenberg, the musical, which actually it makes sense to me that that basically only showed up for revival, I think,

[00:02:51] because impossible to separate Andrew Reynolds and Josh Gad in that show for individual nominations.

[00:02:58] So that does not surprise me that neither of them showed up.

[00:03:02] And I saw Heer Lies Love, which was like robbed, robbed, robbed, robbed. We'll talk about it later.

[00:03:12] I was very happy for the nominations that did get though.

[00:03:15] And more recently in the season, I saw Uncle Vanya at Lincoln Center Theater, which did not do so well.

[00:03:25] And I saw Patriots, which did not as well as I was expecting.

[00:03:32] Dan, I feel like you have this habit of seeing these shows that either close early or don't hit with the Tony nominations.

[00:03:38] Like I remember last year you saw, you were like, I saw almost famous in K-pop.

[00:03:42] Yeah, it's, you know, like in the early parts of the season where I have time and it's the winter and going to the theater is fun and cheap.

[00:03:51] And then at the end of the season when I only have time to see like one or two things.

[00:03:58] It was impressive how many shows opened up in like the last week and a half of this season.

[00:04:05] Yeah, I feel like every April gets crowded and this year was beyond crowded.

[00:04:10] I have a lot of friends who write for theater publications or work in the business and everybody was very tired in April.

[00:04:17] There were like, I think two nights last week that had two premieres each night, which is just like unheard of in this time.

[00:04:26] It's unheard of that two shows have a premiere on the same day at all, let alone it happening more than once within the span of a week.

[00:04:36] All right, I'll go next before we get to our big New York correspondence.

[00:04:41] Tom, I haven't seen anything in New York proper, but I did manage to see two shows that went on to get Tony nominations in their Chicago tryouts.

[00:04:51] I saw The Who's Tommy, which somewhat surprisingly only got the one nomination for revival.

[00:04:57] And I enjoyed it.

[00:04:59] I do think it is as a show, regardless of this production, unsurprisingly bizarre and abstract.

[00:05:04] Like I did turn to my viewing companions at intermission and go, what is going on?

[00:05:10] But I did enjoy it.

[00:05:12] I thought it was a very energetic production.

[00:05:15] I had some design quibbles here and there, but I thought the cast and especially the dancing was really fabulous.

[00:05:21] And I got to see Illinois probably in the best way you can, which is in Illinois.

[00:05:29] I really enjoyed that.

[00:05:31] Sufjan Steven's album is a masterpiece and I already knew that going in, but what Justin Peck is able to do with these numbers is pretty spectacular.

[00:05:40] It's very, very similar to what Twilight Tharp did with Billy Joel's Moving Out, but a little bit more concentrated because it's based on just one album.

[00:05:47] Really some special stuff there and I'm glad it got the amazing reviews it got and seems to be, I don't want to say frontrunner this season because we don't really know what that is,

[00:05:55] but definitely in contention for some prizes.

[00:05:58] And just to note, I do have tickets to Marely We Roll Along and Stereophonic in their immediate post-Toni's performances, which I'm very excited to see because I assume they're going to do quite well.

[00:06:08] So check back in with that later.

[00:06:10] The one thing that I forgot to say that I saw was Marely We Roll Along.

[00:06:14] I know that little show.

[00:06:15] Because it was like, and I saw one thing that's going to win all the Tonys.

[00:06:21] Tom, what did you see?

[00:06:23] Tell us all about it.

[00:06:24] Well, I'm an old New York boy.

[00:06:26] I lived there for many, many, many years and when in my youth would love to go down to the TKTS board because that's all I could afford to see shows.

[00:06:35] And you get spoiled having that there and having Broadway write a couple of stops away on a subway.

[00:06:41] When I moved to California though, that's one of the main drawbacks even though the weather is beautiful out here.

[00:06:48] Good theater, much less great theaters, hard to find.

[00:06:52] It's here but it's not all concentrated within a ten block district.

[00:06:58] So when I saw what was coming in this season, I said, damn it, I'm going to hop on a plane and see some shows.

[00:07:06] So last week I flew to New York and in the course of five days I saw seven shows before the Tonys.

[00:07:16] That's how you do it.

[00:07:18] Yeah, it's like all at once.

[00:07:20] A wide-arrange one.

[00:07:22] Everything I saw got at least one nomination and some more.

[00:07:26] Like Dan, I also saw Uncle Danya which I was a little surprised at how it underperformed.

[00:07:34] I was expecting, hoping at least that Anita and Ogie Rose would be nominated because she and William Jackson Harper are really the dramatic meat of this revival.

[00:07:45] I'm very happy to see that he made it.

[00:07:48] It's a revival of Vanya that leans much more towards the comedic than it often does in other productions.

[00:07:56] The kind of shattering moment when they're faced with having to lose the farm didn't quite hit the same way but there are pleasures to be had in the comedy.

[00:08:08] It's certainly well-mounted, very, very good cast.

[00:08:11] Steve Carell is fine.

[00:08:13] He's a very respectable debut.

[00:08:15] I didn't expect him to be in the Tony mix at all.

[00:08:18] There are some actors like Alfred Molina and Shane Houdichel that are a little overqualified for their roles but I'm glad to see them work.

[00:08:26] Shane Houdichel just collecting that paycheck every night, sitting on stage for a few minutes.

[00:08:33] You love to see it.

[00:08:35] Among the other shows I saw included Jessica Lang in Mother Play, the new one by Paula Vogel.

[00:08:44] I'm dying to see this.

[00:08:46] It's not how I learned to drive.

[00:08:50] It's a lot quite there in terms of a play but as a showcase for actors it's delicious.

[00:08:59] The Simpsons and Keenan Bulger's children, their siblings and their two are both gay, are kind of underwritten but the actors are so good they bring something to it.

[00:09:09] But it's Jessica Lang's show really all day long.

[00:09:13] It's really nice to see her in a contemporary role on Broadway.

[00:09:18] Even though it takes place over the span of 40 years and she doesn't exactly look 35 when the play starts but as she ate, but as the play goes on and she comes closer to a current age, it really hits home.

[00:09:34] It's a really terrific performance and I think will be in the hunt for the win.

[00:09:39] Mother Play is one of the most appropriately named shows of the season.

[00:09:43] Right.

[00:09:44] Jessica Lang's leading it.

[00:09:45] It's a mother of a blood.

[00:09:47] I also saw Hell's Kitchen, one of the leaders at 13 nominations this year.

[00:09:54] I had heard rumors that that had some book problems when it was downtown at the public but and from what I understand I've been reading Broadway chat rooms.

[00:10:04] People who have seen both downtown and uptown said that they fixed them largely by shape, really kind of changing the perspective of it and making it much more of a mother-daughter story than it was downtown.

[00:10:18] Choreography is terrific and some very good supporting performances.

[00:10:26] The star of the show, Malaya Joy Moon, who was one of the young sensations of the season was out when I saw it so I did not see her.

[00:10:35] Her understudy was just fine but Shashana Bean and Kiesia Lewis, Bean is her mother, Lewis is her piano teacher.

[00:10:44] They really kind of they're really strong supporting performances in it and both of them can really belt to the high heavens.

[00:10:53] It's a great energetic show that I would recommend to anybody who's looking for a good time on Broadway.

[00:10:58] Now we're going to need the more serious ones.

[00:11:01] An enemy of the people, I really liked this production and very happy that Jeremy Strong and Michael Puglioli both got nominated.

[00:11:11] It's one of those shows that knows has figured out how to use the circle in the square theater which if you don't know it, it's in the round.

[00:11:20] And very often plays have a difficult time having the characters turn around to talk to everybody but this play seems to have solved that.

[00:11:28] It's a very clever production and the translation by Amy Herzog is really emphasizes the contemporary parallels between what happens to this doctor and what happened to let's say Dr. Fauci in terms of being demonized for telling the medical truth.

[00:11:48] It's a very audience involved production and it was really exciting.

[00:11:54] I was very moved by the end and this is one I would highly recommend and very glad to see that it got the revival nomination.

[00:12:04] I also saw Marely We Roll Along.

[00:12:07] This was a show that I'd seen several times and every time I go back to it, it's like I've heard the original cast and I think, oh, that score is so good.

[00:12:17] I should give it another chance and then I'll go back to see a production of it.

[00:12:21] It's like, no, it still doesn't work but this one really did because they frame it as a memory play.

[00:12:28] So it's Frank Franklin Shepherd Inc thinking about his life and he's thinking about his life as it goes backwards.

[00:12:36] So there is a reason to tell the story from the end to the beginning.

[00:12:40] I think it's a really good idea to play it the way it does.

[00:12:43] All this, to me at least, played like a gimmick before and here it's not a gimmick and actually brings the emotions out and by the end made it very, very moving.

[00:12:52] If it wins the many Tonys I'm expecting it well, it's very, very deserved and I'm so happy that Cody you're going to get a chance to see it.

[00:13:03] As am I.

[00:13:04] Oh boy.

[00:13:05] And I paid a pretty penny to see it.

[00:13:07] It is worth it though.

[00:13:09] Yeah.

[00:13:10] It is the best version of that show I have seen and like Tom, I have seen it a couple times over the years and it never quite works.

[00:13:22] This is as close as it has ever come.

[00:13:25] Yeah.

[00:13:26] Did I pay a significant portion of my rent to sit in the upper balcony?

[00:13:29] Yes, I did.

[00:13:30] But I do think I would be kicking myself if I didn't get to see this, not only this specific production but I've been waiting for a big brassy revival of Merrily for the better part of two plus decades now.

[00:13:42] So I'm already excited and I have no regrets about shelling out for it.

[00:13:46] Yes.

[00:13:48] Yes.

[00:13:49] This is history.

[00:13:50] This is one of those productions they'll be talking about for decades to come, I think.

[00:13:54] Two more left.

[00:13:55] Almost done.

[00:13:56] Appropriate starring Sarah Paulson.

[00:13:59] This is a dysfunctional family play par excellence.

[00:14:03] I had forgotten, I'd seen this nine years ago in Los Angeles.

[00:14:07] New York is so behind the times.

[00:14:10] I didn't remember it until the end and something happens to the set in the end that is surprising.

[00:14:18] I was like, this seems familiar to me.

[00:14:21] And I went back to look at the show's history and he says, yeah, I saw it back then.

[00:14:25] It didn't impress me very much then, partially because it was a largely unknown cast and I never really remember a bunch of the performances.

[00:14:34] But when you have actors with the caliber of Sarah Paulson and Corey Stoll, good lord, it has a, it's very, very funny.

[00:14:43] And it also has some moments in it that are utterly shocking.

[00:14:47] I know this has been extended a couple of times.

[00:14:49] I think this is the final extension for the show.

[00:14:52] It's going to be, I think near the end of June it's going to be leaving.

[00:14:56] So if you can get to New York and can't afford Merrily, this is one very much to see.

[00:15:05] I hope it wins the revival.

[00:15:07] This and having this an enemy of the people in the revival category makes that race really exciting.

[00:15:13] And finally I saw Stereophonic.

[00:15:16] And it is what everyone says it is.

[00:15:18] I was enthralled for three hours and five minutes.

[00:15:21] The set design is remarkable.

[00:15:23] But what really, really caught me was the writing, the way the characters speak to each other.

[00:15:30] It just very much sounds David, Ajmi, I think it was a DJMI who will be hearing a lot about this Tony time has the ability to capture how people normally speak.

[00:15:43] And the conversations that the characters have, you know, it felt like improvisation.

[00:15:50] And you begin to see how relationships within this rock group who are recording a,

[00:15:58] they're what they hope to be a landmark album in a studio in 1976,

[00:16:04] how their personal relationships begin to affect the artistic decisions they make in terms of the play.

[00:16:11] So it just kind of makes the whole story rather epic in its telling.

[00:16:17] It's not a suspenseful play, but you are really hoping this is album A turns out well and B these folks managed to keep their sanity.

[00:16:26] It's quite a remarkable show and this like Merrily is a must see if you come to New York.

[00:16:34] And then I have done a play that went home.

[00:16:37] You know, there's a chance, Tom, that you may have seen the best play,

[00:16:41] best musical best play revival, best musical revival winners in that trip.

[00:16:46] Very good chance.

[00:16:47] All in five days.

[00:16:48] Exactly.

[00:16:49] So really good easier time, I'd say.

[00:16:51] We all bow down to you.

[00:16:53] Oh, well, it's going to be hot dogs and beans for the next week because that's a.

[00:16:59] And you know, I feel your pain as an expat, as somebody who was born and raised in New Jersey and grew up with what I didn't realize

[00:17:06] was the absolute lucky privilege of being able to see whatever I want whenever I want.

[00:17:10] Now that I'm a time's on the way, it becomes much more precious whenever you are in New York.

[00:17:14] So I understand that mad dash marathon feeling.

[00:17:18] Okay.

[00:17:19] So next I want to go around and talk about what our favorite nomination was of this pretty decent bunch of nominations.

[00:17:28] There's a lot of nominations here.

[00:17:30] First off, you know, a lot of categories pushed up to five, six, seven nominees, which seems to be the way that the Tonys are doing things nowadays.

[00:17:38] I guess there are a lot of similar reminded thinking going on amongst the nominating branch.

[00:17:43] We're going to use, you know, tie that definitely happened.

[00:17:45] They absolutely got real, you know, the exact same number of votes for sure.

[00:17:50] They love a tie these couple of years.

[00:17:53] I guess so.

[00:17:54] But let's keep going in the same order we started.

[00:17:56] Lauren, what's your favorite nomination?

[00:17:58] Well, I'm kind of really excited about the overperformance of Stereophonic as a whole.

[00:18:05] I've always wanted to see it.

[00:18:07] I've been very observant of how it's been doing and the fact that it did as well as it did.

[00:18:13] I don't want to say shocked me, but it did shock me to the point where it got double nominations in categories that it got, you know, score.

[00:18:21] And the fact that it has what is it like five out of its seven actors were nominated.

[00:18:26] So I think all in total to the fact that it's now our record holder for most nominations for a play, I'm really excited about this play and how it's going to perform on the Tonys.

[00:18:38] And I know it's a kind of unpredictable race when it comes to the musicals, but I know I'm pretty sure we can all confidently say this is our best play winner.

[00:18:47] So I am just excited to see how it does and how well received it was, you know, all across the board with this bunch of nominations.

[00:18:57] Yeah, it had the benefit of being eligible in categories that not all plays are like best score and best orchestrations.

[00:19:03] But still, you know, it had those amazing reviews, which is what made me instantly buy a ticket where I was seeing the kind of reviews that, you know, proclaim it to be the thing you're going to tell your grandkids about, which, you know, wow, I guess I got to see this play.

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[00:20:11] And yeah, I'm excited for this play to do as well as I assume it's going to do with the Tonys and maybe even win in some categories that again, plays don't normally win.

[00:20:19] And like, I think it does have a decent chance at something like best score, but we can talk about that later.

[00:20:24] No, no decisions made yet through plenty of time. Dan, how about you?

[00:20:29] I have to go a little deep and also a little personal for my favorite nominations for this site.

[00:20:36] I do love that William Jackson Harper got nominated for Golova, because he was by far in a way, I think, to stand out of that show.

[00:20:44] And I was so, so, so happy that he was the one person who managed to break through.

[00:20:49] But my favorite way, way down at the bottom of the list, Jonathan Tuneck finally got a Tony nomination for his orchestrations for Merrily We Roll Along, which makes me so freakin happy.

[00:21:06] Yeah, at first I was confused because he did the original orchestrations and I was kind of like, hmm, I know he's not eligible for those.

[00:21:13] Apparently these are the orchestrations he did for the Off-Probe revival in the 90s.

[00:21:17] So have never been here on Broadway? They were four eligible.

[00:21:20] Yep. And they it sounds great.

[00:21:22] I mean, the score has always sounded great.

[00:21:24] They sound particularly great in this production.

[00:21:29] And I have to brag a little bit that someone that I had the absolute pleasure of working with very, very early in their theatrical career got a Tony nomination for Best Direction of a Musical.

[00:21:45] So congrats, Donia Tame-Maur.

[00:21:48] Oh, damn.

[00:21:49] What did you, if you can tell us about it, what did you work on with her?

[00:21:55] Yeah, so one of my very first jobs, one of my first professional jobs was working for an off-Broadway theater company called Theater for a New Audience, which is now they have a permanent home in Brooklyn where they do focus on Shakespeare and classic drama.

[00:22:13] They're fantastic if you are in the area.

[00:22:16] Go. It's a great space and they always do good work.

[00:22:19] But Donia, at the time that I was there, I was there for five years and I think she was there for my last two or three working as the assistant to the artistic director.

[00:22:33] That's amazing.

[00:22:34] You know, it's so great to see people who start from a certain area of not Broadway in New York and make their way to the very top of the pile.

[00:22:42] It's just very inspiring.

[00:22:44] Yeah.

[00:22:45] And really doing it all on her own and the strength of her work, not her name at all.

[00:22:51] You know, the funny thing about Jonathan Tunick is he has all these nominations, only one win for Best Orchestrations, which is crazy.

[00:22:59] You know, he won the very first time the award was given out in 97 for Titanic.

[00:23:05] And you have to imagine if the award was around in the 70s and 80s when he was doing all those amazing sound time orchestrations.

[00:23:10] He would have way more awards on his mantle, but no companion for his one award yet.

[00:23:15] So you know, maybe this is the year.

[00:23:17] Let's hope the legend gets crowned this time.

[00:23:20] Please.

[00:23:21] I also was going to mention Stereophonics.

[00:23:23] I love when records get broken and 13 nominations, the most ever for a play.

[00:23:27] Very exciting.

[00:23:28] There's two performers I want to highlight whose nominations are exciting in different ways.

[00:23:33] The first of is Cara Young, who's nominated for a featured actress in a play for Perli Victoria.

[00:23:39] This is her third nomination, third in a row.

[00:23:43] She was nominated last year for Cost of Living and the year before for Clydes.

[00:23:47] And those are her only three Broadway credits.

[00:23:49] So she has a perfect score, which I love.

[00:23:52] It makes my stats loving and statistically spreadsheet-y brain so happy.

[00:23:58] It's very cool.

[00:23:59] She's also the first black performer to get three nominations in three consecutive years ever.

[00:24:03] So something to celebrate there.

[00:24:05] Just really excited for her.

[00:24:06] And I think this very well could be the year that she finally wins.

[00:24:10] And I'm also really excited for somebody whose career did not need a Tony Award to help at all.

[00:24:15] But Daniel Radcliffe, the man has been working on Broadway for so long.

[00:24:21] Please.

[00:24:22] I saw him all the way back in How to Succeed.

[00:24:25] Has it succeeded?

[00:24:26] Yep.

[00:24:27] When he played a role, the lead role, that it was the third revival of that production, of that show.

[00:24:32] And the previous two actors who played that role won Tony's and he didn't even get nominated,

[00:24:37] which I thought was so rude.

[00:24:39] And you know this is his fifth Broadway show.

[00:24:42] He has yet to get a nomination.

[00:24:43] He clearly loves doing it.

[00:24:45] He's taking the supporting role in this solid time musical.

[00:24:49] I just am really happy that somebody like him who's doing it for the love of the art,

[00:24:53] he doesn't need to be doing any of this obviously.

[00:24:55] He clearly loves doing it, is finally getting his due.

[00:24:58] And again, I think could very well win.

[00:25:00] He is so good.

[00:25:04] His Franklin Shepherd Inc. is phenomenal.

[00:25:09] It is out of this world good.

[00:25:11] If you can't really picture what Daniel Radcliffe is like on stage,

[00:25:16] I would really direct folks to YouTube to see the clip of his performance of Brotherhood of Man

[00:25:23] from How to Succeed from the Tony Awards.

[00:25:26] That is one of the most energetic and to me best performances I've seen on a Tony stage in recent memory.

[00:25:35] It's really brilliant and how he could not get nominated for that, I have no idea.

[00:25:40] And he has only gotten better as a performer since then.

[00:25:44] Tom, how about you?

[00:25:45] What's your favorite nomination?

[00:25:47] Well, mine definitely is Radcliffe.

[00:25:49] I'm really, really happy for him because I know that seeing all the...

[00:25:54] I've not seen him actually live.

[00:25:56] I actually, when I saw How to Succeed, I saw Darren Chris instead, who was also quite good.

[00:26:00] But I've seen clips of his work in Cripple of Enishman and Equus.

[00:26:05] And boy, he is taking chances.

[00:26:08] I know he has money to...

[00:26:10] He doesn't have to worry about money from Harry Potter.

[00:26:13] But the fact that he is taking all of these risks both in film and on stage,

[00:26:18] I gotta admire, he's having one career that I really, really admire, which is really great.

[00:26:23] I think my favorite one was a performance in Stereophonic that might have been overlooked.

[00:26:31] And that is Eli Gelb, who plays the engineer in it.

[00:26:36] The big focus is on the five musicians and they're the ones who get all the big drama.

[00:26:42] But Eli's engineer has the biggest character arc from the very beginning of the show to the last moment in the show.

[00:26:51] And it is a very understated performance that I think otherwise might have gotten ignored.

[00:26:58] And I'm so happy that he has gotten the recognition that he has.

[00:27:02] I'm really excited to go see Stereophonic and parse out these five nominated performances.

[00:27:07] Like Dan said, five of the seven cast members.

[00:27:10] It's really incredible. Just really exciting stuff.

[00:27:12] All right, I want to move over to what our most surprising omissions are.

[00:27:16] What didn't get nominated that took you by surprise, shocked you, upset you, etc.

[00:27:22] Lauren, let's start with you again.

[00:27:24] I was mostly happy with these nominations.

[00:27:26] I'm a little bit was kind of sad about Lampica underperforming, but I knew that was going to happen.

[00:27:32] I just really loved to champion those original musicals.

[00:27:36] So the fact that it got three and it led to a premature closing is kind of sad because it's so rare when you get that original musical.

[00:27:45] That's just based off of either nothing or a human and it makes it all the way here.

[00:27:50] And we always echo that, but theater is so damn hard.

[00:27:54] It's so hard to have a quote unquote healthy show.

[00:27:57] So I always celebrate the people that got to Broadway did put on the show and they tried the thing.

[00:28:04] So that's always something that I always want to root for.

[00:28:08] If it's original, if it's by itself, I care for it a little bit more than other shows.

[00:28:13] So my heart always kind of breaks when those happen.

[00:28:17] But otherwise, just something like for the whiz to get completely shut out or Tommy not making choreography,

[00:28:26] something like that I was kind of shocked at how underwhelmed they were when it came to that and nominated stuff like.

[00:28:34] I didn't see like Waters for Elephant.

[00:28:36] So I'm not aware of how much is choreography, how much is acrobats and stuff like that.

[00:28:43] So that was kind of upsetting to me to know a couple of dance heavy shows.

[00:28:48] And there's a lot of dance heavy shows didn't make it in.

[00:28:51] So I would say those were pretty upsetting for me.

[00:28:55] Dan, what was upsetting for you?

[00:28:57] I have three big ones.

[00:29:02] The first one is because having just seen Patriots, I think that I was thought the play was great.

[00:29:10] First of all, but the thing that really shocked me about it was that the guy who plays in its whose name I literally have the thing right.

[00:29:24] And then the second one is because he's so keen.

[00:29:28] He is incredible and so chilling, especially the deeper into the play you get.

[00:29:39] And I thought he was he stole the show from Michael Stuhlbarg at arts, which is very, very difficult to do.

[00:29:49] And I thought he was the one who made it in.

[00:29:52] Yeah, he was one of the people I was really surprised and get in, especially because A, that category ended up only having only five nominees.

[00:29:59] A lot of the early predictions I was reading had that as kind of a guarantee to get in if not could potentially win.

[00:30:05] Yeah, because he's incredible.

[00:30:07] Shocking to me that he wasn't in.

[00:30:09] The other ones, the ones that really hurt me personally on a deep level was Ariel Jacobs and Conrad Rickimora from Here Lies Love.

[00:30:20] Not getting into the lead actress and actor categories.

[00:30:23] I mean, we can debate about the other elements of that show.

[00:30:29] And I think it should have been up for Best Direction maybe instead of one of the ones that did get it.

[00:30:34] But you know, whatever.

[00:30:36] But Ariel Jacobs in particular was so outstanding.

[00:30:41] And talk about someone who is like literally on stage the whole entire show.

[00:30:47] So you can see what she's doing at every moment and just like can sing the roof off of the joint and the difficulty in that show being that you are

[00:31:00] constantly performing to people that are all around you on multiple levels and it has to work from every angle.

[00:31:09] And it does.

[00:31:11] And she was spectacular as was Conrad Rickimora who really like, oh my God, one of the best entrances in a musical I think I've ever seen.

[00:31:24] And like so charming, he really gets that sort of like kind of sleazy politician down pat and you just love him and you hate him in equal.

[00:31:39] He's so, so good.

[00:31:43] And just for for night for none of the performers from that show to get nominated, I thought was.

[00:31:50] I mean, it's typical right because it the show has unfortunately long since closed.

[00:31:56] But like that was such a well done show in general such an incredible production and the performances were just like the cherry on top and not seeing them get recognition was this heart name.

[00:32:13] Yeah, it wasn't too surprising unfortunately because that show closed so long ago and the Tony's like every other award show have, you know, very short term.

[00:32:21] Exactly.

[00:32:23] I'm glad it got the four nominations it did and the score is really something special and I've been championing that show privately for myself for 10 years now since it's all probably from here.

[00:32:33] Yeah.

[00:32:34] Yeah, it's a real shame because you have to picture like that production is probably not going to get seen again.

[00:32:39] It's not going to tour.

[00:32:40] They're not going to bring in anywhere else.

[00:32:41] It's just kind of was the one and done.

[00:32:44] Bring back the pro shot.

[00:32:46] Please.

[00:32:47] The people deserve to see it.

[00:32:49] All right.

[00:32:50] So the big snub for me that I'm really shocked by I'm going to call it a snub.

[00:32:55] I know that's a controversial term.

[00:32:57] This really does feel like that for me having seen it.

[00:33:00] I'm shocked that Tommy did not make it into choreography.

[00:33:04] What they're doing on that stage, you know, there's a reason that cast is like half former newsies because they are twirling and flipping and doing all sorts of stuff.

[00:33:13] And that show does not stop moving.

[00:33:15] It's not just the obvious dance choreography, but there's movement nonstop.

[00:33:19] There's not even an applause break in Act One until the end of the act.

[00:33:23] That's how much it moves.

[00:33:24] It's like curtain down applause break.

[00:33:27] The performers are moving hard.

[00:33:29] You can like feel the sweat flicking off of them.

[00:33:31] And it's not just efforts.

[00:33:33] It's the design of the choreography, the shapes and the patterns and the eclectic movements.

[00:33:39] It's really extraordinary stuff for something that could have been really same or obvious.

[00:33:44] So Lauren Latterow, you were robbed here.

[00:33:47] I really think you deserved a nomination if not a win.

[00:33:49] The fact that Tommy only got nominated for revival is kind of weird to me.

[00:33:56] It's very weird.

[00:33:58] I'm surprised into actor or any design categories really bizarre.

[00:34:03] Yeah, it's one of those things where I just looking at like, like it got decent reviews.

[00:34:09] Yes, I did.

[00:34:10] And it was super high profile and very, very strange.

[00:34:16] Yeah. When productions get into only musical revival, it feels very disheartening.

[00:34:20] And that's the case with that and Gutenberg this year.

[00:34:22] And then the Wiz didn't even make it in.

[00:34:24] The Wiz being blanked completely is also very weird.

[00:34:30] And that didn't get horrible reviews either.

[00:34:33] Yeah, I got the kind of, I think like welcome back to Broadway reviews.

[00:34:37] Yeah, it was fine.

[00:34:38] Nobody was like, you gotta see this reimagining.

[00:34:40] Yeah.

[00:34:41] All right, Tom, what were you surprised didn't happen on Tony Domination morning?

[00:34:45] Well, you know, it's I was really kind of pleased by the nominations.

[00:34:51] There would have been things I like to see.

[00:34:53] I really thought that Sam Gold's direction of enemy of the people is very imaginative.

[00:34:59] But I can understand, you know, the nominees that in that directing of a play category were very strong.

[00:35:06] If there's one that I was kind of hoping for that didn't happen and it's mostly sentimental.

[00:35:12] I would love to have seen Chip Zine get nominated for Harmony.

[00:35:17] He is a mainstay of Broadway in the business for half a century and he's never gotten a Tony nomination.

[00:35:25] And this would have been a nice way to give him a bit of a salute.

[00:35:29] Don't know whether the performance was worthy or not, but just on a name recognition.

[00:35:34] He's a performer I've always liked and it would have been nice.

[00:35:39] But as far as something I'm shocked or upset by, I think these nominations are by and large pretty good.

[00:35:46] Yeah. Anyone who grew up with the Into the Woods pro shot knows Chip's work very well.

[00:35:52] Yes.

[00:35:53] You're like, oh, I guess he doesn't have a nomination.

[00:35:55] Interesting.

[00:35:56] And I too thought he could get in this year.

[00:35:58] But Harmony yet another closed show that just didn't make it into the Tony roster, unfortunately.

[00:36:03] Which is another one where I was like, because all and not to like, you know, paint the Tony nominated committee with such a broad brush.

[00:36:13] But all the older people I know have not only seen Harmony, they loved Harmony.

[00:36:22] So it was really a little surprise when it got no Tony awards at all.

[00:36:28] But I think this season in particular, it just went to shows that were currently running.

[00:36:34] I mean, there are what 15 new musicals this year, which is we are usually lucky if we get half that.

[00:36:44] And guess it's good for Broadway.

[00:36:46] I think that we have so many new musicals, but it's unfortunately bad for the Tony's because or well bad for the things that opened early because they didn't get the chance for these Tony nominees.

[00:36:58] Right.

[00:36:59] To be clear, I will take a season like this where there are heartbreaking misses over something like the COVID Tony's where everybody has a nomination.

[00:37:07] You get a nomination.

[00:37:08] Or the year before when it's like, oh, OK, yeah, I guess mean girls and frozen or best musical nominees because there were no other musicals.

[00:37:20] We're talking about 15 musicals, which is so cool.

[00:37:24] Usually, yeah, it's just 10 where majority are going to get nominated or make it into the five.

[00:37:29] So the fact that we had this slew of competition is really cool honestly when it comes to the Tony's.

[00:37:36] Yeah.

[00:37:37] And it makes it like strange and sad but not surprising that something like how to dance in Ohio got blanked because despite how much people loved that show

[00:37:48] and how well received it was, it just didn't last.

[00:37:52] And I know that there have been some quarters who are complaining about the crush of shows at the end of the year.

[00:37:58] It's too much.

[00:37:59] Why can't they parse them out a little more?

[00:38:01] But if the Tony's are only going to nominate shows that have been open in the last two or three months, why open a show in September if you can help it?

[00:38:09] Especially when Tony Awards, like any award nominations have an effect, a visible, noticeable effect on your box office.

[00:38:18] Absolutely.

[00:38:19] You need to make so much money to keep your show afloat.

[00:38:22] I mean again, we're having, we're going to get premature closings because of Tony's and it's expensive to open a show.

[00:38:29] It's expensive to keep a show running.

[00:38:31] So why would you risk it to open a show in the fall or winter?

[00:38:36] Or especially like after Christmas where tourists are coming out of the city and don't want to see a show.

[00:38:42] Alright, and be also got any final thoughts before we head out of here?

[00:38:45] Oh, I just want to highlight our female directors.

[00:38:49] Yes.

[00:38:50] We have the majority girls.

[00:38:53] So there's three out of five for best director and we are four out of five for musicals.

[00:38:57] And I just want to say that that was an amazing part of my morning just seeing all the work that all of these amazing women have put on together to create this amazing, complex, creative shows and plays this season.

[00:39:13] And to see them all get nominated was so thrilling for me.

[00:39:18] So I absolutely love that all of these women are going to be on the Tony's as best directors.

[00:39:25] I think it's amazing, especially in our film world where we're always fighting for that one female director to get in or to get appreciated.

[00:39:34] The fact that we have seven here on Broadway is absolutely amazing and I just love that they're all best directors and are going to celebrate together and just support each other's work.

[00:39:44] So that was really thrilling for me to see and for me to see that the Theatre Wing celebrated that.

[00:39:51] And also, I don't know if it's a record number but there was a very large number of people of color represented among these nominees which is always a point of contention with Broadway.

[00:40:05] So it was really nice to see how diverse these nominations were too.

[00:40:09] Cody, I'm very glad that you mentioned Kara Young and I just want to note just as a programming note.

[00:40:15] If you haven't seen Pearlie Victoria's with Leslie Odom Jr. and Kara Young, it's going to be on PBS.

[00:40:23] They taped it. It's going to be on May 24th on great performances.

[00:40:27] So there's a little bit of free Broadway coming into your living room so make the note of that.

[00:40:33] Hell yeah, I'll definitely be checking that out.

[00:40:35] All right, so that's going to do it for us here at Next Best Theatre.

[00:40:38] Make sure you check back in in a few weeks.

[00:40:40] We'll be doing some predictions. Very excited to talk about what's going to win, what's going to go home with the Tony, who's going to go home with the Tony.

[00:40:48] But for now, Lauren, working people follow you on the Internet.

[00:40:51] You guys can follow me on the Twitter at LaurenLemango.

[00:40:55] DanBear.

[00:40:56] You can find me on Twitter at Dance and Dan on film.

[00:41:00] Tom O'Brien.

[00:41:01] You can find me on Twitter at ThomasEOBrien.

[00:41:04] And you can find me on Twitter at Letterbox Instagram everywhere at CodyMonster91.

[00:41:09] You've been listening to the Next Best Theatre podcast, which is part of Next Best Picture.

[00:41:13] You can subscribe to us anywhere where you subscribe to podcasts.

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[00:41:29] Thank you so much for listening as always and we'll see you all next time.

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