Who's Actually Blocking Young Indians From Politics? | BJP National Spokesperson | Bharatvaarta

[00:00:02] The monsoon session is scheduled for July 20th, right? What do you think will be a couple of the defining issues of this session? You know, the last two-week South America tour, again, we don't have any details of it, happened right on the eve of Bihar elections. And look at what happened in the Bihar elections.

[00:00:26] Let us take a break from this session. We'll assemble again in one hour's time and my office will make the necessary change and I will come back with a fresh bill. You know, the BJP called for a Congress Mukt Bharat sometime back. I mean, today, I mean, considering the state of the opposition, it's almost like an opposition Mukt Bharat.

[00:00:44] Now, I just came across a video from 2009, which is 24 years post the 1985 statement of Rajiv Gandhi, where Rahul Gandhi says that at this stage, as of today, when we spend one rupee, only five paise reaches the poor. Namaste, Tuvin. Thank you so much for making the time and welcome to the Bharatvaarta podcast.

[00:01:13] Namaste, Roshan. Absolute pleasure to be on your show. I remember, I think I recorded the first time for Bharatvaarta in 2021 in the middle of the COVID crisis. And Ashish had done a show around my book, Mission Shingzan, co-authored book with Clark Prasad. So, yes, it's been a long time and wonderful to be back on Bharatvaarta. Yeah, thank you so much. I mean, some, you know, political questions, right? Because obviously, I'm tempted since you're a spokesperson, I need to ask you a few of these as well.

[00:01:42] The monsoon session is scheduled for July 20th, right? What do you think will be a couple of the defining issues of this session? Well, I would say this is going to be the most significant, the most eventful, the most important, you know, session of parliament in a very long time. Because the stakes are very high in April in a special session of parliament, which had been convened to pass the delimitation bill.

[00:02:11] Unfortunately, some of the dynastic parties and ganged up to ensure that the bill was not passed. So I'm hoping that the delimitation bill would see the light of the day. I'm hoping that simultaneously with the women's reservation bill will get passed. Now, it has a huge significance, obviously, delimitation, because delimitation is due. The last time it happened was in 1975. It becomes due right now.

[00:02:35] So imagine, you know, today with 97 crores voters in the Lok Sabha and 543 Lok Sabha seats. Now, each Lok Sabha member is catering to approximately on an average 17 lakhs population, which is the highest in the world.

[00:02:56] Now, if delimitation happens, and I'm hoping it happens, and if the seats go up by 50%, that number, I mean, each Lok Sabha MP will then cater to approximately 11 lakh voters. So obviously, he will be able to address, you know, the issues better. He will be more available to the voters.

[00:03:17] And if you, you know, simultaneously, if there's no question of if simultaneously when assembly elections, assembly seats go up. Similarly, the each each member of the legislative assembly will be able to cater to the constituents better. Also, it would be a once in a lifetime opportunity for the youth, for those youth who don't come from political families.

[00:03:43] So if you look at it, the most insecure people right now are, you know, the dynastic parties who know that the control, their control over their respective parties is likely to suffer with the new entrance in politics. But I think it's a great time to be for youngsters to be in politics or those who are aspiring to be politics. I think this is just the right time to take the plunge. Right. No, it's a it's something that's a long due.

[00:04:11] Right. Every vote, whether it's in UP or Tamil Nadu should count for the same. And every state, irrespective of its size, should have the same heft in the union as well. So we put out an episode with Professor Desiraju quite recently where we went into the depth of, you know, the policy and the consequence of this and so on. But what is the logic of marrying this with the women's reservation bill? See, women's reservation delimitation was anyway due.

[00:04:38] Now, if women's reservation was hastily implemented, any which way the the those seats which would have been allocated for women would have changed significantly post delimitation. Because, you know, you won't even be able to imagine the kind of massive changes which delimitation will be bringing. Every constituency will change.

[00:05:03] You know, so the place where we are sitting right now is Mumbai North constituency. It might, you know, be divided into two constituencies or whatever. So every constituency is going to change. So if women's reservation had been hastily implemented in 2024, any which way, you know, by 2029, the the constituencies allotted for women would have changed.

[00:05:26] So since we are going in for a huge paradigm change, it makes sense to merge the two so that the changes stay for the next 15 years. Because by rotation, any which way, you know, the seats will only the seats, you know, allocated for women will only change after a cycle of 15 years as you know, as is being in the present form.

[00:05:53] So I think it makes sense to to merge the two so that, you know, every five years we don't, you know, have frequent changes and the seats allotted to women are out of 826 seats rather than 543. OK, so in April, it was struck down. We were short by about, I think, 54 votes. Right. So what do you how do you think you'll bridge the distance this time?

[00:06:23] Well, obviously, you know, a lot has changed post April. So TMC has collapsed like a pack of cards. Now Uddhav Sena has equally collapsed. And obviously the Sharad, you know, there is a big section within Sharad Pawarji's party, which seems to be in favor of the bill.

[00:06:49] Now, apart from that, you know, we have I think that would leave us with 3035 MPs short. We are hoping that DMC, DMK would support it. See, DMK, DMK did not support it the last time. Because of the assembly elections which were taking place in Tamil Nadu.

[00:07:11] Now, even they know that the increase in the present bill, the increase will be increase in seats across the country will be on a pro rata basis. So if it's if there is going to be an increase of 50 percent seats in Uttar Pradesh simultaneously, there will be an increase of 50 percent in Tamil Nadu also. Some of these parties insisted that that should be put in writing in the bill.

[00:07:39] So if you remember, at one point of time, Home Minister Amit Shah even challenged him. He said, OK, fine. I mean, if you promise that you will support the bill, if I insert this clause, let us, you know, let us take a break from this session. We'll assemble again in one hour's time and my office will make the necessary change and I will come back with a fresh bill. Is that acceptable to you?

[00:08:07] And all of these parties, you know, didn't have anything to say. They kept looking at each other, the members of parliament. So, you know, I mean, like I said, the real motive seems to be dynastic parties are petrified. So imagine, you know, Rahul Gandhi or Priyanka Gandhi when they have that many new members of parliament and young enthusiastic members of parliament who want their place in Indian politics,

[00:08:33] who want to raise issues any which way in the last few years, all that the Congress party has done under, you know, under the influence of Rahul Gandhi and Priyanka Gandhi has walked out of parliament. I think young members of parliament want to participate debate issues.

[00:08:49] And that is where many of these dynastic parties are scared because, you know, the youth who join politics after delimitation will not come with the same regressive obstructionist attitude which, you know, Rahul Gandhi or Uddhav Thakre might have. Right. Yeah, I mean, the opposition actually fears that, you know, you lose relative representation, right? See, this opposition, I would say this opposition is regressive by nature.

[00:09:18] It just hates change. So when we brought GST, you know, for many years, Rahul Gandhi used to refer to it as Gabbar Singh tasks. Now, I can imagine him, you know, criticizing something on merit. When we struck the Rafal deal, which was the first government to government deal, you know, on when it came to defense purchases, he spread all kinds of canards to block the deal. When, you know, the abrogation of Article 370 happened, he opposed it.

[00:09:46] When CAA happened, he opposed it. So, you know, by nature, this opposition is obstructionist. It is regressive. And at the same time, it doesn't have anything fresh to offer to the people of the country. What do you make of the North versus South debate, right? I mean, that the southern states will be penalized for controlling the population, whereas, you know, the northern states will...

[00:10:08] Like I mentioned, you know, in the present form, you know, going by what has been proposed, there will be a pro rata increase of seats across the country. So which addresses this concern? So imagine Tamil Nadu, which has managed to circumvent the rise of population significantly, and there is no doubt about it.

[00:10:29] I spent about 11 days in Tamil Nadu during the elections, and I, you know, once you move south, and not even complete south, I was in the Trichy region, then Madurai. You know, you can feel, you can sense that the density of population is way lesser compared to, you know, the other parts of the country. But then, you know, like, we have been very categorical in saying that the rise in seats for all states will be on a pro rata basis.

[00:10:57] So if a Tamil Nadu also gets a 50% increase, and a Uttar Pradesh, which has, you know, been relatively less successful in combating or in combating the increase in population, also gets a 50% increase, then who's the gain over here? It's Tamil Nadu, which stands to gain. But doesn't that just magnify the inequality again? Do you think that we should go for smaller states? See, somewhere, like I said, we are at a very important inflection point.

[00:11:23] You know, ideally, right from 1947 onwards, you know, the increase in seats of Lok Sabha has been very minimal. I think for 70, 71 was what it was in the first Lok Sabha, from there to 543. But the population of the country has grown many times.

[00:11:45] So, you know, I mean, Prime Minister Modi has always been very vocal about providing opportunities to the youth, providing opportunities to the women. Now, had it, had women's reservation been implemented in the old, you know, in the old arithmetic, in the existing Lok Sabha, any which way it would have, you know, taken opportunities away from many of the men who have done a commendable job.

[00:12:15] So imagine a situation where everybody stands to gain. You have 273 seats in all, only for women. As of now, I think only 74 women are there in the Lok Sabha. Which is what? Which is what about? One in eight? Less than 15%. 14%. So imagine from 74, the numbers going up to 273. So who's the gainer over here? It's the women of this country.

[00:12:45] Who's the gainer? It's the youth of this country. No, in absolute terms, I don't think anyone will dispute that, right? I mean, it's just in relative terms, I think that's where the real worry is. Do you think then the answer is that, you know, we have smaller states, you know? I mean, I've seen different prescriptions. Some people say we should have 48 states or 50 states. Some others say that we should have 75 states and so on, right? Do you think then that makes sense?

[00:13:11] See, that would have made sense maybe, you know, 20, 25 years ago, where development was unequal. But at least in the last 12 years, the kind of investment in CAPEX, in, you know, capital expenditure in the backward zones has been so enormous that that inequality has been addressed.

[00:13:32] Now, the more states you create at this point is only going to, you know, burden the state execure exchequer more because eventually you will have to create umpteen new administrative blocks which anyway exist.

[00:13:51] But in so far as development is concerned, you know, with all the Greenfield Expressways which are coming up, imagine the new Mumbai-Delhi, you know, Greenfield Expressway. Imagine the new bullet train. All of these are actually passing through newer routes.

[00:14:11] And in the vicinity of maybe 10 kilometers across that route, there will be development, there will be, you know, inequalities will any which way get addressed. So the whole idea of creating smaller states was to bring development where development had been lagging behind. But that has not been, I don't think that is the case anymore.

[00:14:35] The kind of investment, like I said, and with the whole premise of aspirational district program has been to ensure development of the poorest. So if it happens, if development is happening seamlessly in the backward most regions, like I mentioned, the creation of new administrative centers, because of the creation of smaller states is only going to put a burden on, you know, the state funds. More than actually helping out the development needs.

[00:15:05] You know, I'll try to steelman the opposition's case, right? Which is that, you know, there is a bit of a mistrust, you know, of the BJP because, you know, it is often seen as engineering some of these defections and rebellions and so on and so forth, right? I mean, there's massive sort of realignments in some of these states and whatnot.

[00:15:27] And so, which is why, you know, even something as ubiquitously good as, let's say, the Women's Reservation Bill or even delimitation, for instance, is seen with that lens of mistrust. I mean, is there some credence to that? I think the failures, the unending failures of this opposition has made it very cynical. In life, time invariably comes a full circle. So, I will take you back to 1996.

[00:15:54] When I still, you know, when I remember the speech of Atal Bihari Vajpayee, when he lost the trust vote in the 13-day government, that speech still hits me hard. Where he says, you know, governments will come and go, but this democracy must remain strong and robust. And therefore, I quit with the hope and with the confidence that one day we will, you know, be back in power with full majority.

[00:16:22] So, from 1996 to 2026, time has come a full circle. In 1996, people used to spurn us. Now, people are competing with each other to join the BJP. So, should we tell them that, no, you know, I mean, there's no vacancy. Please, you look for another party. But, yes, we are aware of the inherent perils involved in it.

[00:16:46] So, and that is precisely the reason why, you know, the breakaway faction or the breakaway group of TMC has not been included in the BJP. They have formed a separate party which will be supporting BJP. Now, my sense is over a period of next three years, out of those 22, we will see which are the ones who can really align themselves psychologically, emotionally, ideologically with the BJP.

[00:17:14] And my sense is that only a fraction would be able to do that. Right. But do you think that, you know, these defecting MPs should seek a fresh mandate? Because a lot of the votes as well might go to the party in itself or, you know, to the leader of that party. Right. I mean, so how does it make sense? Well, we have witnessed a similar situation in 2019 in Maharashtra. So, Uddhav Thakre got his votes in the name of Prime Minister Modi.

[00:17:42] And then, you know, he came up with this very puerile alibi that, you know, he had been promised Chief Minister's chair and that if he doesn't become Chief Minister, he will break away. So, yes, I mean, these perils are inherent in Indian politics and we could think of laws which can arrest it. But already, you know, the anti-defection law is pretty strong in itself.

[00:18:10] But yes, I mean, you know, we are at a time when I would say the opposition has completely failed the country. If there are so many MPs on the other side who, after, you know, Prime Minister being the Prime Minister for 12 years, still see hope in his leadership. I mean, for the first time, you know, in the world, one would have witnessed this kind of a pro-incumbency sentiment. Usually there is fatigue after 12 years.

[00:18:39] Here there is a fresh wave of support where those who had never imagined supporting him want to support him. So, in this situation, this is a peculiar situation and this only shows, you know, the consistency of Prime Minister Modi and the fact that he's here for another 10 years. But, you know, there are allegations and some would say that, you know, it's an unequal situation, right?

[00:19:04] I mean, because obviously considering the government has been in power for 12 years, it controls all of the central agencies and so on and so forth. So, some of these defections are actually engineered, coerced by, let's say, I mean, ED is asked to raid someone, so and so. And a lot of political leverage is generated. Those, the party which is in government will always face these allegations because at the end of the day, you know, the ED, the CBI is under the government.

[00:19:33] But, you know, I mean, if you call us the washing machine, I can also reverse it. And I can say the opposition is the washing machine. So, imagine they go to Kerala where Rahul Gandhi bashes up the CPIM. CPIM bashes him back. They don't move on the Sabarimala gold smuggling case. The moment they come to Delhi, they are back to fraternizing with each other. But isn't BJP supposed to be the party with a difference?

[00:19:59] I mean, because when you absorb MPs who were corrupt or who are not seen as ideologically aligned to you, then how are you a party with a difference? Well, we are still the party with a difference when it comes to fulfilling our ideological commitments, when it comes to fulfilling our manifesto promises.

[00:20:20] So, imagine which party, which other party, you know, has a track record of nearly fulfilling all its ideological commitments, whether it is application of Article 370, whether it is CA, whether it is UCC, which is now being implemented in a piecemeal manner. So, you know, different state governments are now implementing it, which would eventually pave the way for a consensus of the national level.

[00:20:43] Now, yes, corruption is an issue where, you know, had it been a different era, one could have, you know, closed the door on many of the MPs. But like I said, you know, many democracy runs through numbers.

[00:21:01] You know, many of these path-breaking changes, many of these historic changes, which you have witnessed in the last few years, whether it was abrogation of Article 370 or delimitation, which I'm hoping will happen in the next few weeks, require a certain, require certain numbers.

[00:21:21] And sometimes to do a good, to achieve a good objective, you have to take a path which may not seem absolutely impeccable, which may not seem absolutely, you know, the most correct path. But at the end of the day, it's bringing larger good. I think we've taken a pragmatic stand. And our core voters, and I still, you know, I travel extensively across the country.

[00:21:47] I can tell you, our core voters are aware of some of the compulsions. For example, I was in Kolkata 10 days ago. You know, so obviously, our core voters, you know, are not, would not be as excited, of course, about welcoming. 20 TNCs.

[00:22:12] But at the same time, they know that there is a larger objective which the government is working on. They are aware that, you know, this is a government which is very focused on larger agendas, larger changes, which would benefit the country, which would benefit their children going ahead, the future generations. And that is where the faith in the party remains intact. Right. So, I'll tell you very, you know, if you observe, it's very interesting.

[00:22:42] There are families which have been affiliated with BJP for decades now. They have seen BJP, you know, Jansing and then BJP. Of course, the numbers have increased exponentially post-2014. But, you know, there are families which have stuck with the BJP for the last seven or decades. They have seen the evolution. They may not agree with some of the changes, current changes.

[00:23:08] But at the same time, they will stay with the party because they are confident. They are optimistic that these changes are to ensure larger good. They are largely to steal a brighter future for their children. Unfortunately, with the Congress Party, it's just a reverse. With the current Congress Party. They don't trust the Congress Party with the future of this country. They know that the Congress Party is compromised.

[00:23:36] So, you know, I mean, while our core voters may not exactly agree with every move of the party, they remain aligned on the ideological front. They remain aligned when it comes to the larger interests of the country. If there are ideological differences within the party, right? I mean, the anti-defection law prevents voting against the whip, right?

[00:24:02] I mean, if an individual is so moved by his conscience or her conscience that she wants to take an opposing line, it is prevented. But whereas, I mean, if I have enough of a majority, then I can defect, right? I mean, how does it make sense? Like, you know, do you think that we need to kind of amend this or change this, reform this? Well, at some point of time, you know, obviously, that could come up for discussion.

[00:24:27] But, you know, the only reason why it's coming up for discussion for the first time today is because you have an opposition which is in a moribund state, which is not inspiring confidence. And, you know, there's a situation of imbalance. This imbalance may not stay in the long run. So, today you feel a pertinent reason to, you know, relook the anti-defection law.

[00:24:55] But when the anti-defection law was made, it was made with the best of intent. And maybe, you know, over a period of time, we might go back to a situation where, you know, things would be more balanced and we would have a more worthy opposition where you might feel that the anti-defection law is just about fine. Because, you know, compare, you know, you look at the anti-defection law, it has adequate safeguards in itself. And, you know, maybe let me also draw a very clear distinction

[00:25:23] between what happened in Maharashtra and what has happened in West Bengal for the sake of your viewers. See, anti-defection law makes it clear that two-thirds of the party, two-thirds of the members of the party have to break away to form a separate party. Now, either this breakaway faction constituting two-thirds of the party

[00:25:51] has to convince the Election Commission that they are the original party, which happened in Maharashtra. But in West Bengal, the case is slightly different. In West Bengal, they are not claiming to be the original TMC. This TMC was founded by Mantra Banerji. So, in West Bengal, they have completely merged themselves with another party.

[00:26:20] And there is no bar on which party they can merge itself with. So, obviously, they have merged with the party, which was formed in 2022. So, whatever is happening is happening within the legal ambit. There is no dispute on that front. Like many of these opposition leaders make it seem that whatever is happening is undemocratic, it is against law, which is not the case. It is very easy to mislead the people.

[00:26:45] But all of these things are happening within the ambit of the law to bring certain changes in the law, which you will see in the current session of Parliament, which will aid the future generation, which will see a whole lot of youngsters join politics in the next few years. No doubt, all of this is constitutionally legitimate for sure. But I think the lens is more from a spirit of democracy perspective.

[00:27:15] Is it reflecting the true spirit of democracy? You can't call Chanakya Neeti undemocratic. The point is that even Chanakya used his wisdom, his astuteness, his sagacity to find out solutions, which the other people could not, which the other officials could not. So, in this situation, we are doing precisely that. You know, the BJP called for a Congress Mukt Bharat some time back.

[00:27:44] I mean, today, I mean, considering the state of the opposition, it's almost like an opposition Mukt Bharat. While it may be beneficial for the BJP, do you think that this is good for a healthy democracy like India? Well, we need a responsible opposition. This is something which we have been vocal about. Okay. So, imagine you have a leader of opposition who, you know, disappears for three weeks on end. And because of his disappearance,

[00:28:10] his own pre-scheduled rallies, student rallies have to be cancelled. Three pre-scheduled student rallies had to be cancelled because Rahul Gandhi extended his vacation. And all of his vacations happened at very crucial junctures. So, you know, the last two-week South America tour, again, we don't have any details of it, happened right on the Epo Pihar election. And look at what happened in the Pihar elections. Congress managed to win six seats out of 243.

[00:28:38] AIMIM managed to win five seats. So, we need a responsible opposition. This is something which we also are aware of. But if the Congress refuses to, you know, rise up to its responsibilities, then how are we supposed to groom them? And how are we supposed to bring them to a level where they can, you know, give us more competition?

[00:29:05] Again, you know, I'm curious because in 2024, the India bloc had a decent showing, right? I mean, they won, I think, 234 seats. And in fact, I mean, the BDP's aspirations were pegged back, right? But since then, we've seen that they've completely fragmented. You know, the ARP has distanced itself. The DMK and Congress don't get along, right? I mean, you see the fiasco in Bengal, for instance. I mean, what's happened and Shiv Sena and so on, right?

[00:29:34] I mean, they've just struggled to, like, convert that momentum into something more durable, right? I mean, why do you think that is the case? I don't think there was genuine momentum for the opposition. You know, I would say we were slightly complacent. You know, we are at a stage where only our shortcomings can harm us. The opposition is not equipped to harm us. So I think we were a bit complacent. Maybe in certain places, you know,

[00:30:00] the candidate selection could have been better, to my understanding. So yes, the Congress benefited from it. Rahul Gandhi was on a divisive spree at that point of time, raising the caste boggy, asking people, you know, in his rallies, you are who are caste? So maybe, you know, some of these factors may have worked at that point of time. But like I said, that was not a genuine momentum in favor of Congress Party.

[00:30:29] And besides post that, you know, the Congress Party did nothing to inspire confidence in the people. See, when it comes to issues of national importance, for example, Operation Sindur, I don't think the people of this country can ever trust a party which has tried to convert a decisive Indian win into a surrender.

[00:30:56] So that's the level of petty politics which Rahul Gandhi has a habit of resorting to. And that is something which the people of this country can never relate with or they can never accept. Besides, like I said, you know, I mean, his whole mooring, his whole thought process seems to be far left. And left, unfortunately, I won't say unfortunately, left is the leftover of the world.

[00:31:24] You know, so, I mean, I don't think anybody in his or her right's sense of mind would support a left-leaning politician today. See, I'll give you a simple example. You know, Rahul Gandhi was very upset when President Putin, you know, came to India and he was not invited to a dinner with President Putin. Now, somewhere even, to my understanding, even the world leaders realize that this is not a guy

[00:31:53] who has a bright future in India. So, the French president has come to India multiple times and Macron has come to India multiple times. The last time he met Rahul Gandhi in India was in 2018. He hasn't met Rahul Gandhi in, I think, the three or four times that he has come to India post that. So, I think the Congress Party also needs to ponder why this is happening. Imagine the kind of falsehood,

[00:32:21] the kind of lies which Rahul Gandhi had propagated on the Rafale issue. At one point of time, even attributing a false statement to Macron. So, if that is the level of juvenile utterances, the juvenile discourse which he can resort to, you know, people of India may have certain, for that matter, you know, when a party has been in power for 12 years, in this day and age where social media,

[00:32:51] any which way stokes impatience, stokes restlessness, people tend to, you know, feel a certain, you know, the anti-incumbency is bound to set in. Now, even in that situation, when the Prime Minister's popularity has remained intact, when invariably there is a pro-incumbency vote across states, that is precisely for one reason,

[00:33:18] which is when it comes to national interests, when it comes to the future of the country, the people of this country cannot trust this opposition. And besides, of course, for the first time, you know, you have a Prime Minister who talks about a 20-year plan, who talks about Vixit Bharat goals. So, you know, I mean, each sector in the country today, I mean, for the first time, in our discourse, in our social discourse, in our public discourse,

[00:33:46] we are talking about numbers with such clarity. So, if the renewable energy sector today stands at, say, you know, $25 billion, where would it be in the next five years? If our economy stands at $4.2 trillion at this point of time, where would it be in 2047? I don't think, you know, in the past, any government would talk about what would happen to the country

[00:34:14] beyond their tenure of five years. And here is a Prime Minister who always follows a larger arc, you know, a planning arc, where he personally is just a facilitator for a brighter future. So, I think all of these things make a big difference when it comes to people's orientation, when it comes to the way people perceive, you know, a certain leader

[00:34:43] as Prime Minister material or not. Right. You know, this is a coalition government, but doesn't feel like one in some sense, right? I mean, because the BJP got 240 seats and with NDA, I mean, it's 293. But you think the coalition partners have significantly influenced your politics and ideology or really, I mean, they're, you know, they haven't had too much of impact? On the contrary, I feel there is a rare synergy

[00:35:12] of thought process between all our alliance partners. So, imagine, even on the Work Fementment Act in 2025, the entire, I mean, all of our opposition, all of our alliance partners supported us completely. be it Chandra Babu Naiduji, be it JDU, be it, you know, Chirag Paswan. So, I think, you know, 2024 in many ways was a blessing in disguise.

[00:35:43] It created a broader alliance. We realized that our numbers may have come down, but at the same time, we realized that we need to really synergize our thought process, our efforts, because the other side we can't allow the other side to mess up with the country. So, imagine the kind of financial, fiscal anarchy which Congress Party wreaks in every state which it gets to rule.

[00:36:13] I mean, you're in Karnataka, you're aware of the range of scams. So, you know, I mean, when they come, God forbid, if they ever come to power at the center, the whole, the only thing that would guide them is their lust for public loot, which is what they've done in all the previous years when they were in government. Final question. You've been very patient with us.

[00:36:42] It's been a pretty long conversation. You know, what do you think will be the fight in 2029? What does, paint the battleground scene for us? You know, will it be fought on Modi ji's record? Will it be fought on, you know, who will succeed him likely, right? Or, is it economy, welfare? Is it Hindutva? What, what will be the battleground like? What will be the priorities like?

[00:37:12] We are track record. Who will be the, who will be the leader? No, our track record in the last 15 years would be the, would be the, single most important factor in our quest for 2029 looks of our win. And, obviously, Prime Minister Modi will be the leader going ahead because, his energy levels, I mean, if you look at the itinerary of his foreign tours, the number

[00:37:42] of meetings which are packed in, and in fact, you know, I mean, Astonic. Supriyash Rinait tends to keep poking fun, oh, he's on a foreign vacation, summer vacation. But, if you look at all his foreign tours, either they are packed with MOU's strategic deals in the semiconductor space, in the renewable energy space, in the, defense space, or in the rare earth, you know, the critical mineral space.

[00:38:11] In addition to that, you know, he makes it a point to expand India's or manifest India's civilizational outreach. So, whether it is the Paramban temple in Indonesia or the temple in Seychelles, that's the other part, the civilizational outreach. And the third, obviously, you know, the number of countries which, have honored him with their highest honors, no other leader has managed that. So, you know,

[00:38:41] the energy levels of Prime Minister, the kind of effort which he puts in, I mean, I don't think there's any, you know, more than a decline in energy. The energy levels have only gone up in the last 12 and a half years. And I think he's also prepared for the next one decade. He realizes that the momentum needs to remain intact. People of country realize that the momentum needs to remain intact. Of course, you know, like in your life,

[00:39:11] in a life of say 70, 75, 80 years, you know, I mean, obviously, there will be some ups and downs. There might be a phase where you are unwell, but how you bounce back and how you maintain the consistency going ahead is what matters and which is what the prime minister has shown. You know, in Hindi, there is a word called Nirantarta, the continuity. So for him, every day is like a fresh day in office where he approaches the

[00:39:41] day with the same detailing, with the same, you know, the same attention for detail and the same passion to pursue unfinished goals. So he's going to be the one leading NDA into 2029. And like I said, I mean, in the next three to four weeks, if all goes well, the 2029 elections, any which way is going to be a historic elections and something

[00:40:10] which all of us would be eagerly looking forward to right from now. Yeah. Yeah. I surely hope so. I mean, he's a phenomenal leader and you know, we've benefited immensely from his leadership, especially, you know, given the tumultuous times we have faced, right? I mean, with COVID and wars and geopolitics and everything else, right? So I do hope that he's... Even the present, you know, U.S.-Iran war, our energy supplies remain intact. So all all the naysayers.

[00:40:40] So in fact, and yes, I mean, somewhere we missed out on covering the financial inclusion, which has been one of the biggest successes of the government. So imagine in 1985, Rajiv Gandhi had made a statement that when we spend one rupee, only 15 pesi goes to the poor. Now, now I just came across a video from 2009, which is 24 years post the 1985 statement

[00:41:10] of Rajiv Gandhi, where Rahul Gandhi says that at this stage, as of today, when we spend one rupee, only 5 pesi reaches the poor. You know, so imagine out of those 24 years, barring the six-year, ten-year of Atal Bihari Vashpeji, the remaining 18 years were Congress or Congress backed governments. So Rahul Gandhi in a way accepted the levels of corruption. So from that time until now, from 2015

[00:41:38] onwards precisely, if 49 lakh crores of rupees have been directly put into the hands of the poor, which has obviously, you know, been a crucial pivot in bringing 25 crore people out of poverty, you know, that to my understanding that if you ask me, that's the biggest achievement of this government and those 25 crore people are will support Prime Minister Modi in 2029. That's going to be the crucial game changer. Absolutely.

[00:42:08] Thank you so much for being on Bharatwal. Absolute pleasure. Absolute pleasure being here. Fascinating conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you. Namaste. Namaste. Namaste.