‘Pvt universities have institutionalised internationalisation in Indian education’

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to All Indians Matter, I am Ashraf Engineer.

[00:00:03] In India, private universities began to mushroom roughly 25 years ago.

[00:00:07] Since then, several such universities have become household names and are seeing high end Goldman

[00:00:11] numbers.

[00:00:12] Given how young the population is, education is seen as one of the major ways of unlocking

[00:00:17] potential, especially in imparting employment oriented skills.

[00:00:21] The private universities is journey has involved a steep learning curve.

[00:00:24] By acknowledging the tremendous advantages they offer, there are also some serious concerns.

[00:00:28] What is a likely growth trajectory of private universities in India and what are the challenges

[00:00:33] that lie ahead?

[00:00:42] We are on the show Abhay G. Chibi, pro-Chancellor at Alliance University,

[00:00:45] he started off as director of admissions and focused on diversifying student involvement

[00:00:49] and advancing executive education programs.

[00:00:51] He has also forged collaborations with several foreign universities.

[00:00:55] Abhay is an alumnus of the National Institute of Technology at the University of Michigan.

[00:00:58] Abhay is also a member of the academic advisory committee of the National School of Development Corporation.

[00:01:03] Abhay, welcome.

[00:01:04] I am Ashraf.

[00:01:05] Thank you for inviting me.

[00:01:07] Abhay, let's go to the beginning.

[00:01:09] When did private universities appear in India and why was there a need for them?

[00:01:14] Well, Ashraf, the phenomena of private universities in India began in early 90s and the 90s and one of the primary

[00:01:22] driving factors, three and actually have been the population of the country.

[00:01:28] There is so much population across different democracies.

[00:01:32] I think this increased demand has been one of the greatest driving factors

[00:01:37] so that private institutes could come up.

[00:01:41] Other than that there came to being a requirement or at least a demand or vertical specific

[00:01:47] to certain specialization it could be a field or together it could be a domain or together the rise of law

[00:01:56] education for example, engineering in a more streamlined way.

[00:02:00] So the vertical specializations were considered something that needed more expertise, need that a population

[00:02:07] and it could be smaller.

[00:02:09] Other than this, the flexibility that inherently the institutes, private institutes provide

[00:02:17] that give a lot of the way for private institutes to come and quick with, of course, regulatory rules back then and even now.

[00:02:26] And for it into activities which could bring the industry which could bring the academic research

[00:02:32] which could look at collaborations as a package which otherwise in the in a governmental public area would have taken much time

[00:02:41] to get into a quality like that.

[00:02:43] So to be very honest it is demand we see commerce, it is specialization and also it is the speed which decisions are taken

[00:02:52] because autonomy in certain areas they collect.

[00:02:55] And since then what has been the evolutionary journey being like of private universities?

[00:03:00] They grew a lot of private universities in the 90s were there but in 2000s.

[00:03:07] There was in fact many hard schools, let's say business schools etc.

[00:03:13] They started mushrooming a lot.

[00:03:16] This exponential growth came about because of a sense of quality not that public universities don't do that.

[00:03:23] A sense of quality that inherently was connected and associated and a systematic way of

[00:03:29] churning our great products, led to an exponential growth in this particular segment.

[00:03:36] Second I think a vertical specific or even quality specific private institutes looked at doing one thing and

[00:03:43] one thing really good that is quality education in every aspect that they did.

[00:03:47] So I think that has led to strong growth and it is its market that in fact takes a look at it your good, your good,

[00:03:54] if you are not good people would go there.

[00:03:56] So there is responsibility accountability came in and then one thing that private institutes did and of course the public also did

[00:04:03] but follow through a slow is globalization and internationalization as we call it.

[00:04:09] I think that has led to tremendous amount of knowledge came collaboration, it could be faculty,

[00:04:15] it could be students and that has led to the exposure that was required to students coming from the private sector.

[00:04:24] And how do private universities benefit students and but also I think the education sector is a whole.

[00:04:31] You know, competitions are always good.

[00:04:35] Let me start off that way when it is market demanded market accepted you tend to play in a segment where you don't do good,

[00:04:43] you don't provide what is desired or even beyond that you somewhere fade away and the some costs in a service like this are huge for any group or any individual or individuals

[00:04:56] to do it strongly or otherwise and catching up is good.

[00:05:00] So I think competition has led to better quality, better institutions.

[00:05:05] I think that has that has been quite evident in the in the in the private institutes or in the universities.

[00:05:12] There are some institutes do not do not choose not to come under the regulatory bodies because they very confident to what they're doing

[00:05:20] and they're turning out graduates who eventually will go out and do play things that are acceptable by the industry.

[00:05:28] The students specifically, I think the kind of exposure every institute public or private looks like they're current students as their primary stakeholders.

[00:05:40] That would be staff alumni industry all of them are stakeholders but I think this is a platform where they all come together to ensure that that student gets the best during his time and then afterwards as an fellow.

[00:05:56] I think both ways individual as well as the entire segment has been enriched with the entrance of private players with the same.

[00:06:04] Now let me ask you two questions. One is wouldn't be fair to say that the focus of private universities has been educated of higher education and do you see the private sector playing an even greater role in tertiary education as we perform.

[00:06:20] Yes, it has been you know a primary education is quite broad. It starts from your mother said he can regard him then possibly and now it seems with the the latest any P the way in which it is structured everyone getting adopted.

[00:06:38] Then it's a secondary than it is the full college college, but the focus as you are now pointing out is in the higher education category of course yes because you should understand the Indian market.

[00:06:53] Well, the the GER is about 27 inch into 28 and the government wants it to touch 50 but then it all starts when families individual state education seriously if you really look at it.

[00:07:08] There is a green gap between students in their inertia of education and it's not common to our country but then at least basic school education happens in a developed country as is perceived and also as shown by numbers.

[00:07:21] But the ones who get into the higher education segment are the ones who've cleared that battle. So there is this inertia to do undergrad grad post, uh, do operate and then you know a post operate all of this there is there is no drop in students because an undergrad.

[00:07:41] Of course there are degrees like engineering, etc that give you wings and you get your jobs immediately but for most of those other areas. You do need a master's program because those are specialized things so yes the focus has been higher education.

[00:07:57] And before we proceed I just like listen to know that when a PSG is referring to the gross enrollment ratio which is a proportion of people enrolled in higher education as in a proportion of the total population.

[00:08:10] That is relevant to higher education how many people are actually involved in higher education institutions.

[00:08:16] How about private institutions partnering with the government?

[00:08:20] A lot of areas I think there has been a tremendous surge in the way research has been undertaken.

[00:08:30] I think there are joint projects even private institutions like Alliance. We in fact have been the first moveers because the first private university nobody in the south of India had heard of a university in the private category never deemed universities but when we got in immediately I focus was research and teaching.

[00:08:49] So knowledge creation and dissemination so in the first aspect research public university has some of the green research funds as well as infrastructure and partnering and look at IAC Bambler and our faculty and our institute's collaborate and do a lot of research.

[00:09:09] I think joint research projects is one. There have been instances where faculty have taken lean as they call it or a sabbatical from public institutions like the IMS and the IITs and what have you.

[00:09:23] And they have come to the private sector given their expertise for the butter year if they are likely to stay back or they went back.

[00:09:30] So I think a lot of knowledge sharing has happened in terms of faculty and student exchange students are not just getting exchanged internationally but also domestically.

[00:09:41] I think a topic institutions are very much on that I recently was in the US and I was so surprised and happy that our neighbor I am panor was just night right next to us in a different town.

[00:09:54] I had never seen that before so I think it sort of is bringing 11 playing fear from both my private and public and think everyone wants to collaborate and and do great things and the last aspect is curriculum development.

[00:10:07] With a lot of legacy of public institutions, great public institutions comes experience of how a curriculum changes and evolves over time.

[00:10:18] And the depth of your curriculum and the pedagogy I think such knowledge sharing is enriching and we genuinely today have projects and partnerships that are structured.

[00:10:29] I am bound to resort oriented with the government and public sectors and I think the higher education landscape is on a massive high if I should say because they're doing tremendously well.

[00:10:42] To the Indian public and the mood is very good simply because GER has to be up in the most appropriate way.

[00:10:49] These are of course two-end disadvantages that private universities bring through the table but there are concerns to for example.

[00:10:56] Feast tend to be unusually high, or at least very high compared to public universities which means that accessibility is an issue.

[00:11:03] Well yes and no let me put it this way.

[00:11:09] If you were to go to a good restaurant I mean always try to compare education to food but services be food and education you want quality food you need good ingredients it needs you know for your taste palette etc.

[00:11:24] So when you look at the service sector you can take something that is often right you can take something that is extremely personalized today.

[00:11:34] We're looking at an era where the Gen Z's are having fewer attention span.

[00:11:41] They are challenged by the way in which the industries have changed and the way in which companies want them to be ready from date zero.

[00:11:50] There is no gestation time.

[00:11:52] What do private institutes do different?

[00:11:55] Is private institutes almost in at a very reduced student faculty ratio as good as 211 is 215 then this you know I just read an article and this is off your of the track there is micro schools that are now blossoming.

[00:12:14] Essentially means every student has tremendous amount of potential that's only going to come when the faculty has more time to invest on that students private institutes.

[00:12:24] In the last a lot some of money taking it from the public or otherwise in a structured way to invest in infrastructure in equipment in the learning experience in technology with personalized learning so that they can tremendously make an impact on students and transform them.

[00:12:43] This transformational journey yes is expensive.

[00:12:48] But when I said no I also meant that I must commend the digitization efforts by the government and the freedom and flexibility well-goerne that they are providing in the online education space.

[00:13:02] Coindip something strange to us they it normalized this online right now we don't want the touch and feel of course learning happens with facial expressions being closed.

[00:13:14] But what happens on like we were forced into it that we've become a normal online education is on the blue.

[00:13:21] A line to university is also falling into it but we're ensuring that quality doesn't do.

[00:13:27] If you have a class of one is to 16 percent that's a different thing but if you have it online you never know how they're receiving it.

[00:13:36] So I think online we take education to the classes internet has penetrated like this they can have quality higher education and affordable price.

[00:13:47] Right how by the way there was research in this episode they were two other criticisms that came up one various papers and we're a tactical one was that as private universities must show and the government passes on that responsibility to private players.

[00:14:01] There is a fear that the government will eventually end up ignoring the so-called universities which play a vital role in the overall education space.

[00:14:08] And also the temptation among private players as you mentioned also it a lot of it is driven by the market demand.

[00:14:15] May lead to the ignoring of courses that are a smaller demand but are still equally white how do you come to that.

[00:14:22] To take your first question I do not see a future where government does not play a role in education.

[00:14:30] I think they will definitely be there for several reasons to point out a few well education that have got a legacy have got a great.

[00:14:42] The recipe for success and this recipe for success will never diminish because the government rule in governing and operating these institutions are not that much.

[00:14:54] The autonomy that they have been given essentially means it's a group of learned men or women coming together.

[00:15:01] Starwords trying to push through a certain agenda learning what should people in today's time to pay an age learn for the market immediately and also for the future to develop them I think it could be in the private set up for a public set up.

[00:15:46] The management space the ABCs right but now you look at an I am which is fairly new is now compared to an institute private maybe with a certain legacy so the market chooses where the students wants to go and learn.

[00:16:03] So I think in a market place be public be private it doesn't matter it's all the same however they have been to citizens as you rightly pointed out with said.

[00:16:14] Private institutes you know they may be just factories that just print certificates of degrees and it may not have any value for jobs.

[00:16:25] The data shows contrary I'm not defending my business or something it did not show is contrary there's a huge amount of enrollment but from institutes that are doing the right job that are building skills and humanistic values in students to politically grown them.

[00:16:43] You cannot have an individual claim I've really did this but not have humanistic values does not have the skills that are required in this area so I think it's it's not to give sort of general life because the number is huge.

[00:16:59] I'm sure if you're talking about 1,111 the last time I checked universities and within that about 400 private institutes I think.

[00:17:09] Private institutes do play a very important role in the growth of this country and you know they have searched in their numbers but the criticism will always be there but yes it should be taken in a positive way.

[00:17:25] Government should look at such institutes who are really criticized and are poor quality and take correct direction I think they are doing it.

[00:17:34] UGC the MCA different bodies the BCI are there and are very active and we could see that it's see change in in this and I think this will slowly take care of.

[00:17:49] I'm glad you mentioned all of that in the end because my next question was going to be about standards and regulation and how how does the government regulate the quality standards in private universities.

[00:18:02] But starters, what do you do to students we educate them now in it's not just in the classroom it's outside of the classroom but what are the tools that are you so one curriculum.

[00:18:13] We are governed and we are supposed to maintain a certain at least hygiene in the curriculum but how do you manage the curriculum by bringing in case studies by bringing in industry relevant exercises so I think curriculum is one.

[00:18:28] This group of me happens to accreditation we talk about a Mac as an example it looks at seven different criteria so one of those is teaching learning with the networks the kind of problem is the core core core number one.

[00:18:44] Then you look at teaching teaching pedagogy etc so all of the new look at research and look at student development so accreditation is something that is taken very seriously.

[00:18:56] The ranking from the central government the NIRF for example which is supposed to be already soon for this year.

[00:19:03] We have brought about this quality mindset amongst every stakeholder the industry will look at what are your rankings are you accredited and so forth so regulatory mechanisms are very well in check.

[00:19:17] It takes care of teaching learning it takes care of research it takes care of the faculty it takes care of infrastructure yes we could go more on that detail but in a take a lot of time yeah.

[00:19:28] What are some of the positive changes for the universities have introduced in higher education I know you spoken a lot about quality but what is.

[00:19:59] You want to be a corner you want to be a high level quarter you want to be a low level quarter you're in the area of evidence science and information technology but you don't want to go you don't want to get into a technical space for all of these different pathways there are curriculums that.

[00:20:15] get changed according there are assessments that get changed we could never find something like this.

[00:20:24] We've tested it out with one particular beta program where we've collaborated with the industry this open collaboration I think is a positive change which is very people from the industry teach students not on a top board not on a white board hands on on their computers they learn by doing it.

[00:20:45] And their assessments are evaluating how they code or probably how they do project management or how they conceptualize a simple English language.

[00:20:56] The problem statement into let's say in a lot of them I've given you this one thing where collaborations happen technology has been brought in.

[00:21:04] It takes a solid problem of personalized learning assessments have been adapted to that one second positive change I think is in the area of internationalization and international mobility.

[00:21:18] Today at any given point in time private universities or public universities have form faculty from students coming to working learning research.

[00:21:30] This is tremendously impactful because a certain culture has been brought in of students from the US and UK for faculty from these countries to come and share their knowledge they need a certain climate they need a certain environment they need a certain quality of living they need a certain structure way of working.

[00:21:46] I think private institutes have done great in practice most importantly the ability of handling problems that are prevalent in the society it could be sustainable aspect it could be research on a certain period.

[00:22:03] The centers of excellence in private institutes and the money that have been brought into the track quality talent has been tremendously accepted and I think these centers of excellence impactful on public policy you know those have made a change and the last element in this is the entrepreneurial journey of students.

[00:22:22] Private institutes with the help of the government and there today have started looking at student getting the equipment should be becoming an entrepreneur or a student going out for higher education you know.

[00:22:52] I think these are some positive changes that I could think of.

[00:22:59] Do you see more than happening in India because internationally we see a lot of inventions and patents and collaborations with industry happening.

[00:23:07] I mean listeners will know that Google for example began at Stanford web browsers and plasma screens created at the University of Illinois.

[00:23:17] The drug medicine allegra which we are so familiar with was developed a Georgetown university and.

[00:23:21] I think it was that I think we know in the university of Florida of memory service so you see a lot of that kind of thing happening in India over the next 10 years.

[00:23:30] Next 10 years yes yes what the primary reasons for this asha is because research is being considered important.

[00:23:38] You look at startups in India and you compare companies and startups of work what's fundamentally missing.

[00:23:46] I think a web research product goes a long way.

[00:23:52] In India you have a lot of population there is great domestic consumption but we are writing on that way if you look at great products coming from India.

[00:24:02] There very few but if you look at service you have in process you they prove you have all these because we are catering to the.

[00:24:09] Not just the back in the service aspect with good ahead but if you look at research take research very seamlessly.

[00:24:16] I think there could be.

[00:24:19] I think there is a lot of information from amazing products that could turn out from the industry and we have that.

[00:24:25] We Indians go outside and work in these companies because we're the brains there but there's a structure that is very there is a quality check benchmarking that is building it's coming to India.

[00:24:36] When we give you an example the fine marketing to which of your type one of our fellow.

[00:24:41] Met me and over the alumni association diverse research just about three days ago and he said you know wait for it coming up with an amazing shoe.

[00:24:51] I went about asking him how did you go.

[00:24:55] You know have you seen this new brand called on Q and all of that and then I realized that he has a fabulous idea is got an amazing.

[00:25:05] I've got a great idea.

[00:25:06] But it's probably to find a 3D model that could be sample over thousands of people and come to shoe sizes he is working on the new BHA of India the new shoe size.

[00:25:21] That India has adopted the US in UK probably go because they have a different.

[00:25:26] But the new shoe size and other measurements also for accessories including he came to our TBI the very say next day we got a 3D model done we used a 3D printer we came up with that.

[00:25:38] This could have taken him quite some time and money to do it I think and our research faculty in that area can give him a lot of inputs now what I'm trying to say a long it short.

[00:25:48] Universities are getting there but that essentially means huge investments huge investments cannot just come from the private body that started it should come from industry it should come from research bodies it should.

[00:26:05] And tuition fee should be the last of what the university will look at spending of this I think that Brian has started companies have fun budgets when their CSR category now they are free mining working with Indian universities looking at how good they are looking at proof concepts and funding them.

[00:26:25] I definitely see a great great great possibility that great product companies could emerge with the help of universities.

[00:26:33] So there was about a lunch in the university and is journey so far.

[00:26:37] Well it began in 1996, 1997 and it began in a very humble way with one building in the south of Bangalore it catered to management education.

[00:26:53] And one of the reasons the founder to part it best was she couldn't look at the demand and supply gap in the management education space and he said this is human tremendous demand and I am for a.

[00:27:10] Thought that this is something that could be replicated those humble beginnings quickly led to the business who being among top 10 in the country including the I and.

[00:27:21] And then thereafter the drive went on to see how in other disciplines becoming under this quality radar and a number of.

[00:27:29] Or a lion's university came about this was by the act of the state government and a lion's university was was a four run of in this today we have about.

[00:27:41] But the art private universities just in the state of Calacca and South India has many more.

[00:27:48] Alliance university has the school of business which is the world has law as engineering applied and computational then there's public policy that's designed a liberal arts and you know the breadth we only increase and the focuses on.

[00:28:09] Providing students with world class facility world class education world class exposure and help the reach the games in this aspiration.

[00:28:21] And what's next for it for lines yeah.

[00:28:23] I was recently at around table and I was asked as I was behind the bar what keeps me up at night there's still a large population that does not have access access to basic internet hand helps or computers are that thereby education also.

[00:28:44] I think a line to the university will move forward in two is one is to strengthen its physical presence with quality focused on research limited student it.

[00:28:58] But then looking at reaching masses through its online programs there is where a lion's university will head to so online is a space if well done.

[00:29:11] Has the potential to educate and sort of shorten this demographic divide and in the access to education can be got by thinking broadly research quality teaching and according to online education is something that a lion's university has on it.

[00:29:31] So I was asked on my guess at the end of the show why do you do this work.

[00:29:37] Well, you know to be very honest and frank I never wanted to be an education I never envisaged this but the moment I got into it I never saw any other sector excite me as much as this.

[00:29:51] I have worked in libraries I have been a teaching teacher assistant there an associate to professor in the University of Michigan I've done a lot in the area of internationalization I've thought I look at admissions marketing I've looked at governing research but I think what drives me and motivates me is the fact that this service has got a much better.

[00:30:21] The online factor you educate a student he in fact transforms the life not just of himself but of his family thereby his society, nation and the world.

[00:30:32] I think this impact that education has truly, truly inspires me you feed somebody well his respect for the meal.

[00:30:42] But you educate somebody it's for life I think this is something that I think no other service can provide and there's so much that you can do.

[00:30:52] There's so much you can transform a human being you can bring you can make individuals achieve their desire and their dreams through education if way done.

[00:31:05] I think that's the passion that has caught on to me and I would always be in the sector be higher education primary secondary tertiary but education in the right spirit and sense.

[00:31:18] By thanks so much for being on the show.

[00:31:20] It was a delight us shop thank you so much to visit the Alliance website, Alliance or TD but I am and learn more about the university not just the university all the private universities in India because there is a transformation happening.

[00:31:34] But that needs time and it needs trust and I'm sure India will reach green heights if its population gets educated in the right spirit and sense it was a pleasure thank you so much.

[00:31:51] All Indians matter.