These Times, They Are A' Changing: How the World of Work is Shifting

[00:00:00] Welcome to Whine with HR, I'm Jules.

[00:00:11] Hey there, I'm Trish.

[00:00:13] Lawyers turned HR professionals.

[00:00:15] Through our company, Monarch Endeavors, we guide employers through their oh shit moments

[00:00:20] with their employees.

[00:00:21] In this podcast, we will discuss some of the most common and commonly frustrating HR

[00:00:27] problems, while enjoying our favorite adult beverage, wine.

[00:00:32] So sit back, grab a glass if you choose and join us as we think about and drink about all

[00:00:37] things HR.

[00:00:41] Welcome to this episode of Whine with HR.

[00:00:43] Today, we are talking about some of the potentially radical changes that are on the horizon, not

[00:00:50] just in HR but also in how businesses structure their company.

[00:00:54] And we are delighted to have Sarah Epping of Ashlyn Group with us to discuss this topic.

[00:01:00] Sarah is the principal and founder of Ashlyn Group, which is a talent development consulting

[00:01:05] and leadership coaching firm located in Cleveland.

[00:01:11] Sarah has over 20 years of experience in the field and recently celebrated seven years

[00:01:16] with Ashlyn Group.

[00:01:17] Round of applause.

[00:01:18] Welcome Sarah.

[00:01:20] Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:23] It is really a pleasure to be here.

[00:01:25] When Julie asked me if I wanted to be on her podcast, I jumped at the chance because I love

[00:01:29] to geek out with fellow HR peeps.

[00:01:32] Nobody's right the same kind of weird that we are.

[00:01:36] And I love a good glass of wine.

[00:01:38] So I mean, you're combining two of my favorite things today.

[00:01:41] Yes, I can't even believe it.

[00:01:43] I have over 20 years in this field.

[00:01:46] I started when I was five.

[00:01:48] Clearly.

[00:01:49] Clearly.

[00:01:50] Clearly.

[00:01:51] I was thinking about the other day, whenever I get invitations to speak to young professionals

[00:01:55] groups, I'm flattered and then I go, oh wait.

[00:01:59] I'm not one of those anymore.

[00:02:00] Oh no, I'm the wisdom importer.

[00:02:02] No, I'm not the targeted audience.

[00:02:06] Oh geez.

[00:02:07] But yes, I have over 15 years of corporate HR experience.

[00:02:12] I like to call myself a recovering HR professional.

[00:02:16] And I cannot believe that it has been seven years since I started Ashlyn Group and just

[00:02:22] a little bit about Ashlyn Group.

[00:02:24] So Ashlyn Group is a talent development and consulting coaching firm.

[00:02:28] I also do speaking engagements and I pinch myself because this has always been my dream

[00:02:34] and we get to do really great work with really cool people all over the world.

[00:02:40] So what can be better than that?

[00:02:41] Oh wow.

[00:02:42] Well what?

[00:02:43] Yes.

[00:02:45] Recovering HR professional.

[00:02:47] I often say I'm a recovering attorney but I now also describe myself as an emotional support

[00:02:52] human.

[00:02:53] Oh yeah.

[00:02:54] It's really the best description idea.

[00:02:56] I feel like, I love that.

[00:02:57] That's so accurate.

[00:02:58] A lot of times it's like, can you just be there?

[00:03:02] Yeah, can you be my wooby?

[00:03:05] Yep.

[00:03:06] You're going to pay extra for that but sure.

[00:03:09] It's an add on service.

[00:03:12] Read a coaching?

[00:03:13] I don't know.

[00:03:14] All right Sarah, tell us about the name of your company, Ashlyn Group.

[00:03:20] So Ashlyn is an Irish word.

[00:03:23] You're Irish?

[00:03:24] I know if you couldn't tell by looking at me with my strawberry blonde hair and incredibly

[00:03:30] fair skin.

[00:03:31] I'm just a little bit Irish.

[00:03:35] And so the word Ashlyn is an Irish word that means a dream or a vision and I

[00:03:40] was so taken by that word.

[00:03:44] And if you travel to Ireland as I have, you actually see the word Ashlyn everywhere.

[00:03:48] It's very meaningful.

[00:03:49] It elicits a very warm response by the Irish native.

[00:03:54] So I loved that and that's exactly what my company does.

[00:03:58] So we support individuals, teams and organizations in figuring out what their vision is but

[00:04:04] taking meaningful action towards accomplishing their goals and attaining that vision.

[00:04:09] It's one thing to have a vision but you've got to actually do something in order to work

[00:04:14] towards that vision.

[00:04:15] So that's where we come in is creating milestones and supporting an emotional support human

[00:04:19] and enabling them to do that in very meaningful ways.

[00:04:25] I really wish we had a mic to drop but we won't do that since we're actually in

[00:04:31] studio today.

[00:04:32] Yes, yes, we're all in the same room.

[00:04:34] It's so fun.

[00:04:35] Sarah, who are the people that you tend to help?

[00:04:39] Like who's your target client?

[00:04:43] So a lot, my clients are very much all over the board actually and that is one of the things

[00:04:48] that energizes me is because I don't get bored that way.

[00:04:52] I don't do the same thing every single day.

[00:04:54] So some of the organizations that I support are small to mid-sized.

[00:05:00] They maybe don't have a large L&D team or talent development team and it's nice to have another

[00:05:06] set of eyes on things or support them and bring in objective opinions and strategies.

[00:05:12] So I support them in that way.

[00:05:14] I also support larger companies who sometimes have just looked at something for so long

[00:05:20] and it's too close.

[00:05:22] It's too close to them and so I can take a look at something objectively and provide

[00:05:26] ideas and because I'm not in their organization when it comes to coaching.

[00:05:31] So I coach many leaders and organizations from high potential individual contributors

[00:05:37] all the way up through C-Suite.

[00:05:40] Coaching strong dynamic female leaders is really where my passion is but I'll coach

[00:05:45] anyone who's open to coaching.

[00:05:48] But you know, in coaching you just can create this really awesome safe space that is unlike

[00:05:56] any other form of development.

[00:06:00] It's not like going to a training class, it's not just taking a self-study or reading a book

[00:06:06] and that's where my biggest passion lies in what I do.

[00:06:10] Very cool.

[00:06:11] I'm just blown away.

[00:06:12] Oh gosh.

[00:06:13] Can I just sit here and listen to you this whole episode?

[00:06:16] I'm not even gonna add anything.

[00:06:17] I'm just gonna sit here and listen to you.

[00:06:19] You're gonna have to give me something to answer.

[00:06:21] I don't know if I'm allowed to listen.

[00:06:22] I can do that.

[00:06:23] I can do that.

[00:06:25] All right.

[00:06:25] Well, before we get too far into our topic for this episode, we need to talk about the

[00:06:32] W-I-N-E that we're drinking and because we are in studio all in the same place,

[00:06:38] we are all drinking the same thing.

[00:06:40] So we have a lovely Rose here today from Elizabeth Spencer.

[00:06:46] It's from the North Coast Vintage 2021 from Napa, California.

[00:06:54] So Trish, what do you think of it so far?

[00:06:56] So far, I like it.

[00:06:58] I think it's light, crisp.

[00:07:04] Let me see.

[00:07:04] Let me take another sip.

[00:07:05] Hold, hold please.

[00:07:06] Slurp, slurp, slurp.

[00:07:07] Please stand by.

[00:07:10] Loading, loading.

[00:07:15] Yeah, I like it.

[00:07:17] OK, Sarah.

[00:07:19] So I am a seasonal wine drinker.

[00:07:23] I assign with the type of wine by the season and so we're in this weird transition

[00:07:29] season right now and it's very gray outside.

[00:07:32] So this is a really good transition into spring wine, I feel like,

[00:07:37] because it's not a really cozy red and it's not a super crisp white

[00:07:41] where you're just begging for patio weather.

[00:07:43] True.

[00:07:44] This is a really good, like it's getting me excited for warmer weather,

[00:07:48] but I know I'm still going to have to snuggle under a blankie when I get home.

[00:07:51] Yeah, right on.

[00:07:52] Yeah, yeah.

[00:07:53] Yes, I was very confused as to what to bring today

[00:07:57] because the weather could not make up its mind.

[00:07:59] So welcome to Cleveland.

[00:08:01] Yeah, and but I thought maybe by bringing a nice rosé,

[00:08:06] we can manifest spring into existence.

[00:08:10] Please.

[00:08:11] And we're trying to get clear skies for the eclipse.

[00:08:14] Yes.

[00:08:16] That would be really nice.

[00:08:17] I'm really, really excited for that.

[00:08:19] Yes, yes.

[00:08:21] All right.

[00:08:22] So Trish, why don't you tell us what the W-H-I-N-E of the week is?

[00:08:26] You're not going to make me sing, are you, Jules?

[00:08:29] No.

[00:08:29] OK.

[00:08:32] Just making sure.

[00:08:34] OK, so we are talking in this episode about some of those radical shifts,

[00:08:41] like I mentioned earlier, that are going to or are currently taking place

[00:08:47] in the work world.

[00:08:48] So, Sarah, since you are the one who suggested the topic,

[00:08:53] why don't you enlighten our listeners about what we're talking about?

[00:08:57] Give them the nitty gritty specifics.

[00:09:00] Yeah, so when Julie and I first chatted about podcast topics,

[00:09:05] we both had a lot of energy around this when I brought it up.

[00:09:09] I stumbled upon just because I'm again an HR geek

[00:09:14] and I in my free time still read HR articles about engagement

[00:09:20] in the workforce and things of that nature.

[00:09:22] I stumbled upon a couple of articles that talked about the future of work

[00:09:29] and relatively recent, as you know, as recent as 2022

[00:09:33] and talking about how this paradigm shift of how we think

[00:09:37] about accomplishing the work is changing.

[00:09:40] Whereas it's time to start revisiting

[00:09:43] are all of these roles in our organizations truly?

[00:09:48] Do they need to be full time allocated roles?

[00:09:51] Do we need an FTE for all of these things or?

[00:09:55] That's full time employee for those of you who might not know.

[00:09:57] For those of you who don't speak HR geek,

[00:10:00] provide a glossary of acronyms at the end.

[00:10:04] Yes.

[00:10:06] In the show notes.

[00:10:07] In the show notes.

[00:10:08] Yes, yes.

[00:10:10] Follow us for more HR advice.

[00:10:13] So this is going to require us to think very differently.

[00:10:17] And I was fascinated by the numbers around freelancing,

[00:10:21] just the populations, the rise in freelancing and gig workers

[00:10:27] and how this is really going to shift the way we think about

[00:10:33] accomplishing the work.

[00:10:33] And if you've been in HR or you've been an organizational

[00:10:37] leader for a really long time, you better hold on to your hat

[00:10:41] because this is going to require you to be a bit open

[00:10:45] and think of things very, very differently.

[00:10:47] Yeah.

[00:10:47] One of the things that Sarah and I were talking about

[00:10:50] is how do we help those folks embrace this rather than

[00:10:56] just be like I need to just open and down a bottle of wine?

[00:11:02] Like what we're doing today.

[00:11:04] Yes, because there are some potential real benefits to this sort of shift.

[00:11:11] So on both sides.

[00:11:12] Yeah, on both sides.

[00:11:13] So Trisha.

[00:11:16] Yes.

[00:11:17] You love your stats.

[00:11:18] So why don't you hit us with some of them?

[00:11:22] So one of the articles that Sarah provided us had, of course,

[00:11:26] fabulous stats.

[00:11:27] And as everyone knows, I love my stats.

[00:11:29] So I want to share a few of them and then I'll ask Sarah to tell

[00:11:34] you more about the article and also share some more stats.

[00:11:39] So some of the benefits of freelancing or gig work,

[00:11:44] financial gain, flexibility and control.

[00:11:48] Now, these are the reasons that people are leaving traditional work.

[00:11:54] Right?

[00:11:55] I mean, I love this.

[00:11:57] Like that idea of flexibility and control the ability to control

[00:12:03] what you earn.

[00:12:05] I mean, talk about knowing your value.

[00:12:08] We all did it.

[00:12:09] Yeah, here we are.

[00:12:11] We are this population at your service.

[00:12:16] And I can tell you that I am definitely more satisfied with

[00:12:20] all areas of my work.

[00:12:23] And that seems to be the trend, right?

[00:12:26] We are more satisfied than those who are non-freelancers.

[00:12:31] And the majority of freelancers actually report that the freedom

[00:12:36] and control offered by freelancing enables a greater focus.

[00:12:41] This is the part that I love so much on health and well-being.

[00:12:45] Now, here's where the fun stats come in.

[00:12:48] So on this last number talking about health and well-being,

[00:12:51] 74 percent, of course, say just overall they have a greater

[00:12:56] control over their own life.

[00:12:59] 73 percent said, well, I like to do it because it gives me

[00:13:03] flexibility that way I can actually focus on my mental

[00:13:09] and physical health needs.

[00:13:11] 69 percent say, well, I just it's all about that work-life

[00:13:16] balance.

[00:13:18] And by other favorite, overall their general health has

[00:13:23] improved since they started freelancing.

[00:13:28] I mean, pretty powerful.

[00:13:29] Wow.

[00:13:30] And I could definitely say that from a personal standpoint,

[00:13:34] my work-life balance is just off the charts.

[00:13:38] I am happier.

[00:13:39] I agree.

[00:13:39] I just I love what I do.

[00:13:41] Yeah, I'm in control of my life.

[00:13:43] Yes.

[00:13:44] Yes.

[00:13:45] The only PSA is if any of the powers that be are listening,

[00:13:49] stop tying healthcare to employment.

[00:13:52] That's a different podcast.

[00:13:53] It is a different podcast, but that would make it 100 percent.

[00:13:57] Oh, my gosh.

[00:13:58] I agree because that's the one drawback about being

[00:14:01] a freelancer is you that's a challenge.

[00:14:04] But anyway, this could be a great argument for that for employers.

[00:14:09] Like they it's one of the most expensive things that they have to.

[00:14:12] Yes.

[00:14:13] Pay for.

[00:14:14] So I got it.

[00:14:15] Exactly.

[00:14:16] All right, so sorry.

[00:14:17] Little change in there.

[00:14:18] No, no, I liked that.

[00:14:21] That was a good one.

[00:14:22] So, Sarah, tell us more about the article and give us some more stats, please.

[00:14:26] Yeah.

[00:14:27] So this trend does not shock me in the slightest of what we're seeing

[00:14:31] with more and more people considering freelancing and entering into work

[00:14:34] freelancing because honestly, during the pandemic, if you think about it,

[00:14:40] most people learned what the three of us and those of us who are self-employed

[00:14:46] had already discovered years ago, which is there's more to life than work.

[00:14:51] And that work is a part of your life.

[00:14:54] Work is a means to living your life.

[00:14:56] It should not take over and be your life.

[00:15:00] Or suck the life out of you.

[00:15:02] Or suck the life out of you, right?

[00:15:04] And so people really had this time to think about and prioritize what was important.

[00:15:10] And they thought about how they work, why they work, and where they're choosing

[00:15:16] to spend their time, where they're exchanging this time for money.

[00:15:20] Bottom line, they stumbled upon our secret, essentially.

[00:15:23] And the Gen Zers are out there going, we've known this.

[00:15:26] They have known this.

[00:15:27] And so so fun fact in my spare time, I'm adjunct faculty for

[00:15:32] Bowling Green State University College of Business, Go Falcons.

[00:15:35] And my alma mater.

[00:15:38] And I will tell you these young students,

[00:15:42] you know, don't don't make don't keep me prisoner in your office

[00:15:47] if I don't need to be.

[00:15:49] But if you are a seasoned HR professional or leader

[00:15:55] and you've been doing this work for a really long time,

[00:15:57] you might be thinking to yourself, what who are these woo-woo people

[00:16:01] that these gig workers, these self-employed ladies are talking about?

[00:16:06] What are the what are the actual population numbers?

[00:16:08] So let me just share a couple of highlights with you all

[00:16:11] because it is astounding when you think of the number.

[00:16:15] So according to this this article from 2022 from Forbes,

[00:16:21] 36 percent of Americans, that's 59 million, no small number.

[00:16:27] Fifty nine million Americans performed freelance work in 2021.

[00:16:32] That is a third of the US workforce and 35 percent of that 59 million,

[00:16:39] that's over 20 million, PS, freelance full time.

[00:16:43] Yeah, that's full time.

[00:16:45] So so what does that mean in earnings?

[00:16:47] What does that mean to the economy?

[00:16:49] Because we always hear about well, the economy, the economy.

[00:16:52] Here's what happens to the economy.

[00:16:55] So freelancers contribute one point three trillion dollars.

[00:16:59] That's with a T all one point three.

[00:17:05] One point three trillion dollars in annual earnings.

[00:17:08] And that, by the way, and that was in 2022.

[00:17:12] That is up 50 billion from the year before from 2021.

[00:17:16] With a B y'all with a B y'all.

[00:17:19] So so how about young professionals?

[00:17:21] Because, you know, I believe the children are our future

[00:17:24] in the words of Whitney Houston.

[00:17:25] I believe the children are our future.

[00:17:28] Thank you, Julie.

[00:17:30] She had to sing at least one portion of the podcast.

[00:17:32] Right on cue.

[00:17:33] I'll let you handle that one.

[00:17:35] So 51 percent of recent college graduates

[00:17:39] are doing freelance work post graduation.

[00:17:42] Wait, what was that number?

[00:17:43] Fifty one percent of recent college graduates

[00:17:47] are doing freelance work post graduation.

[00:17:49] And they're either doing it because

[00:17:52] they want to keep their skills sharp while they're looking

[00:17:54] for a full time job.

[00:17:57] But what's happening that in that way then is

[00:18:01] it's opening them up to realizing that this is an actual career track.

[00:18:06] Oh, yeah.

[00:18:06] And I can literally design my life

[00:18:10] and decide what I want to do, where I want to do it

[00:18:14] and the companies that I want to spend my time supporting.

[00:18:18] So in this Forbes article, they pretty much say

[00:18:20] that if this pace continues more than 50 percent of the workforce,

[00:18:25] eighty five point five million people

[00:18:28] will be participating either full time or part time

[00:18:32] in the gig economy by 2027.

[00:18:35] That's right around the corner a couple years away.

[00:18:37] You got it.

[00:18:38] You got it.

[00:18:38] So if we don't figure out how to support this way of doing work,

[00:18:46] whereas instead of exchanging my time for money,

[00:18:50] I'm exchanging my expertise for money.

[00:18:54] Right.

[00:18:55] We are not going to support this future workforce

[00:18:58] and other populations who benefit.

[00:18:59] We'll talk about that momentarily, I know.

[00:19:02] But but think about that.

[00:19:03] We either get on board and consider how to make this work

[00:19:06] or we're going to be left behind.

[00:19:08] We actually have a young gentleman who is

[00:19:12] I think he's a junior.

[00:19:12] The share will be a senior at Miami of Ohio,

[00:19:15] who's going to come on and guest star.

[00:19:18] And this is exactly what we're going to focus on

[00:19:20] is what people of his generation are looking for,

[00:19:24] I love that, what they're learning

[00:19:25] and what they can bring to the economy, to a particular business.

[00:19:29] So you know, I love that one.

[00:19:31] These students, I got to tell you that, you know,

[00:19:33] the younger generation gets a bad rap.

[00:19:36] And I don't really think it's generation.

[00:19:38] I think it's age based because I don't know about you guys.

[00:19:40] But when I was in my 20s and had a shiny new degree under my belt,

[00:19:43] I was full of piss and vinegar too.

[00:19:46] And I, you know, it didn't matter.

[00:19:49] It just it they want to work.

[00:19:53] They want to work hard,

[00:19:55] but they are incredibly protective of their life, of their time.

[00:20:00] They they have grown up watching their parents work themselves to the bone

[00:20:05] and they want to create a life that they love.

[00:20:08] And oh, by the way, they're going to be able to give more

[00:20:12] when they are at work because of that balance.

[00:20:15] So I'm not going to go off on that tangent.

[00:20:17] 100 percent. Yeah, creation of the choir here, ladies.

[00:20:20] But but yeah, it's it just it opens up a lot of doors.

[00:20:24] Well, I think it's really important to note that as well,

[00:20:27] because in our next episode, we talk about how you can develop from within

[00:20:33] to help fill some of the gaps that are being created by this tight labor market.

[00:20:38] But this is the point.

[00:20:39] A lot of people who are looking for work nowadays have no interest

[00:20:44] in working 40 hours a week or more, you know,

[00:20:48] and having to report to a job every single day and be micro managed

[00:20:53] and not really have autonomy when they could be doing things a different way.

[00:20:59] And I think that's a great point.

[00:21:01] Sure. I mean, we've talked about the young professionals in recent college grads.

[00:21:04] But when I when I look at the people in my life, just every day,

[00:21:10] adults, middle aged adults, whatever,

[00:21:13] we have individuals who are caregivers, parents

[00:21:17] who maybe don't want to spend 40 plus hours a week in an organization.

[00:21:24] But they do have a lot to contribute.

[00:21:26] I also think about individuals who are differently abled, right?

[00:21:31] Who maybe they physically cannot work 40 hours a week.

[00:21:35] But man, do they have so much to contribute

[00:21:40] to an organization by way of skill set, right?

[00:21:43] So this makes opportunities available.

[00:21:46] And we've got an aging workforce population.

[00:21:50] I don't think these folks necessarily want to be thrown into retirement

[00:21:54] or forced into retirement.

[00:21:55] Well, what if they could sunset a little bit easier

[00:21:59] and then that organization reaps the benefits from them working part time?

[00:22:03] This is becoming hugely popular.

[00:22:05] More and more companies are actually looking to do that.

[00:22:08] And it works well for the person, too.

[00:22:11] Right. I actually have some stats on that.

[00:22:14] So you do.

[00:22:15] I don't want to be left out of the stat game here.

[00:22:18] Sure, your stats girl.

[00:22:19] OK. So over half of freelancers are providing knowledge services like

[00:22:24] IT, marketing, computer programming and business consulting or HR consulting like us.

[00:22:32] The number of freelancers with a postgraduate degree is also increasing.

[00:22:37] In twenty twenty two, one in four freelancers

[00:22:40] held a postgraduate degree versus one in five from the year before.

[00:22:44] So it is not just the young kids.

[00:22:47] It's people like us who are like, I can take my skills on the road

[00:22:52] when it took my talents.

[00:22:55] And fifty two percent of freelancers are caregivers,

[00:23:00] which is what you were just talking about, Sarah and Trisha and I are both in that category.

[00:23:07] And eighty percent of those say that freelancing gives them the flexibility

[00:23:11] to be more available as a caregiver for their family.

[00:23:14] So as that workforce continues to age,

[00:23:19] as the as your employees continue to have additional burdens outside of work,

[00:23:24] this becomes a really good solution many times.

[00:23:28] Absolutely. Or for moms, think about the people that want to come back to work

[00:23:33] or want to get in the workforce.

[00:23:34] We were having that conversation and was it our last episode or the one before?

[00:23:38] Gender pay gap episode. Yes, our gender pay gap episode.

[00:23:40] And we were mentioning our friend, Deborah, who you all have met.

[00:23:44] She guest starred once as well.

[00:23:46] And just think about the transferable skills that I mean,

[00:23:51] of course, she had those skills forever and ever.

[00:23:53] But she's used them as a mom.

[00:23:55] She's used them in the workplace.

[00:23:57] And I think about someone who wants to get back into the workforce, but can't.

[00:24:03] Right? Maybe the money isn't enough yet, or maybe it's

[00:24:09] just whatever is going on, it won't allow them to go in.

[00:24:12] And then, wow, here we go.

[00:24:14] Here's a part time opportunity.

[00:24:15] I can do that. Right. The freelance gigs.

[00:24:18] Amazing. Right.

[00:24:19] And you said, you know, for whatever reason, they're not able to get back in.

[00:24:22] Well, if everything is a full time opportunity and not everybody is able

[00:24:27] to work full time hours for whatever reason.

[00:24:30] And by the way, the reason doesn't matter.

[00:24:32] It should not matter.

[00:24:33] It's you all we all have a choice of how we want to spend our time.

[00:24:38] But talk about transferable skills.

[00:24:41] Have you ever negotiated with a child?

[00:24:43] I mean, that alone.

[00:24:47] That alone should get you into like hostage negotiations situations,

[00:24:52] partnering with like a SWAT team. I don't know.

[00:24:54] I agree. Yeah. 100 percent. Yep.

[00:24:59] Do you love news about LinkedIn, Indeed, Google and just about every other

[00:25:04] recruitment tech company out there? Hell yeah.

[00:25:07] I'm Chad. I'm Cheese.

[00:25:09] We're the Chad and Cheese podcast.

[00:25:11] All the latest recruiting news and insights are on our show.

[00:25:14] Dripping in snark and attitude.

[00:25:17] Subscribe today wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[00:25:21] We out.

[00:25:25] So I think we need to talk a little bit about how companies could start

[00:25:30] incorporating freelance work, because you do have to be strategic about it.

[00:25:35] You can't just be like, OK, we're going to put out a all call the freelancers.

[00:25:41] Tell us what she can do for us, you know?

[00:25:43] So so, Sarah, what are some tips that you have for how businesses

[00:25:49] could start taking advantage of the fact that there is this large group

[00:25:54] of people who want to work in a different way?

[00:25:56] Yeah. I think the first thing is to realize it's not appropriate for every role.

[00:26:00] Absolutely. Right. Yeah.

[00:26:02] It's not going to be appropriate for every role.

[00:26:04] And as excited as we get talking about it, we also realize

[00:26:09] that there are some limitations based on whatever the work output is

[00:26:13] or the nature of the role. Right.

[00:26:15] But when we do talk about things like knowledge workers

[00:26:18] and things of that nature, that might be a great starting point.

[00:26:23] And I think instead of looking at the role in a traditional sense of,

[00:26:29] well, this is just the way it's always been.

[00:26:31] The first thing that we need to do is examine the work, the work output.

[00:26:36] And I don't have all the answers.

[00:26:37] I don't know what that is.

[00:26:38] This is uncharted territory when we're talking about it on a corporate scale.

[00:26:44] Right. But but looking at the work

[00:26:47] and examining what needs to get done

[00:26:51] and asking new questions that we haven't considered before,

[00:26:54] like how can this be done?

[00:26:56] When can this be done?

[00:26:58] Where can this be done?

[00:27:00] And by who?

[00:27:01] And maybe it's not an FTE.

[00:27:03] Maybe it's two part timers or maybe it's, you know what,

[00:27:07] based on the role we need somebody to tackle this project

[00:27:11] and we're going to hire somebody for that.

[00:27:13] And maybe it's this project, which is slightly different.

[00:27:15] We're going to hire an expert for that.

[00:27:17] But it's looking at what the actual work output is

[00:27:21] and getting away from this, this

[00:27:25] traditional paradigm of everything being tied together in a role

[00:27:31] with a lovely bow that necessitates 40 plus hours a week.

[00:27:35] Yeah, I have a great example of that.

[00:27:37] So I have a client who is dealing with the situation

[00:27:41] and we have been looking at it very strategically,

[00:27:44] but they have one employee in particular who is retiring.

[00:27:48] And thankfully, that person has given them tons of notice.

[00:27:51] You know, so we've had a year to figure it out.

[00:27:54] But this person started with the company when it was, you know,

[00:27:58] 10 employees, it's now hundreds of employees.

[00:28:02] And so when you start off with the company,

[00:28:04] we all know because we all own our own businesses,

[00:28:06] you do everything.

[00:28:07] Right?

[00:28:08] So at all times of day.

[00:28:11] Yes. So this person has, through the years,

[00:28:14] just developed this hodgepodge of stuff that she is responsible for.

[00:28:20] She's the kitchen sink.

[00:28:21] Yes. And so when we started looking at it objectively,

[00:28:25] we were like, OK, wait, this part of it, this belongs in HR.

[00:28:30] This part belongs in payroll.

[00:28:32] This part belongs in admin.

[00:28:34] This part belongs over here.

[00:28:36] There really is no reason to hire somebody to replace her

[00:28:39] because it doesn't make sense from a work standpoint,

[00:28:42] like you were just saying, to keep it in one person.

[00:28:47] It makes more sense to put it back where it belongs.

[00:28:50] No, she just collected crap as she went along, right?

[00:28:52] Like a snowball.

[00:28:53] You just pick stuff up and it just sticks to you.

[00:28:56] And then they go, oh, well, that's been taken care of.

[00:28:58] You know, so Sheila is going to do that.

[00:29:00] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:29:01] Does it make sense for Sheila to do that?

[00:29:03] Maybe not. Right.

[00:29:04] And so then the other thing that could happen in a situation

[00:29:08] like that is you start looking at parts of it and think, OK,

[00:29:11] well, are any of these things that we might be able to hire a

[00:29:15] consultant for or farm out to a third party or, you know,

[00:29:20] like you said, hire for a particular project or whatever

[00:29:23] the case may be. But I think like that's a concrete example

[00:29:27] of how somebody could start this process.

[00:29:30] I love that.

[00:29:31] And you know what I was just thinking as you were saying

[00:29:33] that if we always talk tell people, talk to your employees,

[00:29:37] ask them how things have changed.

[00:29:39] Oh my gosh, you might actually have to talk to people, Trish.

[00:29:44] That is revolutionary thinking.

[00:29:46] Thank you very much.

[00:29:48] You're so smart.

[00:29:49] We actually have episodes on how to do that.

[00:29:51] Oh my gosh, you're so smart.

[00:29:52] Can you imagine?

[00:29:53] Go back and listen to the episodes, y'all.

[00:29:57] But talk to your employees and find out what they think

[00:30:00] about their job.

[00:30:01] Like how has it changed over this past year?

[00:30:05] Have we added something to their job that maybe has created

[00:30:09] some sort of a performance issue for them or maybe a personal

[00:30:13] issue because now they're having to now I'm working 50 or 60

[00:30:17] hours, whereas before I was working 40, 45 or something

[00:30:20] like that.

[00:30:21] And then you can start looking at does this actually make

[00:30:24] sense for this role and maybe doing some sort of an outsourcing

[00:30:28] gig.

[00:30:28] Yeah.

[00:30:28] And that you just made me think about so great place to

[00:30:31] start.

[00:30:31] We're not going to look at every single role and start doing

[00:30:33] an about face and saying, well, you can choose if you want

[00:30:36] to work full time or part time.

[00:30:37] Right.

[00:30:37] We're not going to do that.

[00:30:39] But as natural attrition happens in your organization for

[00:30:43] you non-HR gigs, that's another HR term.

[00:30:45] That means when people leave voluntarily and there's a

[00:30:47] natural turnover and you have a vacancy.

[00:30:49] All right.

[00:30:49] Close parentheses.

[00:30:50] But when that natural attrition happens and then these

[00:30:55] roles are open, really examining the role and talking to

[00:31:00] the individuals who not only have done that role,

[00:31:03] interface with that role, lead that role and partner with

[00:31:06] that role to say what makes sense here?

[00:31:09] What actually makes sense versus then just continuing

[00:31:13] to regurgitate the job posting and post that

[00:31:17] that requisition out on indeed and LinkedIn and all

[00:31:20] that stuff because it's just the way it's always been

[00:31:22] done.

[00:31:23] Yeah.

[00:31:23] Yeah.

[00:31:24] And the challenge is taking the time to do it because

[00:31:27] that's where.

[00:31:29] Well, that's where the HR people are going to be

[00:31:31] kicking and screaming.

[00:31:32] Yes.

[00:31:32] Right.

[00:31:32] Like telling your kid to go to bed early and brush

[00:31:35] their teeth and all that kind of fun stuff.

[00:31:38] That's where we're going to be kicking and screaming

[00:31:40] because I don't want to.

[00:31:41] I have enough stuff to do.

[00:31:43] Right.

[00:31:43] I don't want to.

[00:31:44] I have enough stuff to do.

[00:31:46] And now you want me to reexamine this role when

[00:31:48] it's really just easier for me to post it.

[00:31:51] Yeah.

[00:31:52] And but if we if we aren't open to thinking about

[00:31:56] things differently, we are going to get left behind.

[00:32:00] Yeah.

[00:32:00] Well, and like you said, you can they can hire you.

[00:32:04] They could hire us.

[00:32:05] They could, you know, but have that outside person.

[00:32:08] You don't have to do it all.

[00:32:10] You don't have to figure it all out.

[00:32:11] Like use the expertise that's out there.

[00:32:14] You know, maybe working with your managers too.

[00:32:15] Yeah.

[00:32:16] Right.

[00:32:16] Because we have a lot of managers that listen as well.

[00:32:19] So it's not just an HR task.

[00:32:21] Right.

[00:32:22] And have the have the mindset that this is new.

[00:32:26] This is exploratory.

[00:32:27] Nobody's cracked the code on this yet.

[00:32:29] And we're all figuring this out even as consultants.

[00:32:33] We're just beginning to have these conversations

[00:32:35] and and figuring it out.

[00:32:37] So we're going to we're going to stub our toe

[00:32:40] every now and then and we're going to bump along

[00:32:43] as we figure it out.

[00:32:45] But it might actually be worthwhile.

[00:32:48] Absolutely.

[00:32:49] I think the other important thing is when people

[00:32:51] when companies are starting to kind of consider

[00:32:53] where they might be able to start trying out

[00:32:58] some freelance or, you know, consulting positions is

[00:33:04] it's not going to be the stuff that's central

[00:33:05] to your business.

[00:33:07] If you if you make widgets, you're not going to bring

[00:33:09] in a consultant to make widgets.

[00:33:11] Right.

[00:33:11] They're going to partner with you for a month

[00:33:13] and then be on their journey.

[00:33:14] Yeah.

[00:33:14] No, those are going to be your employees.

[00:33:16] Correct.

[00:33:16] But the people who do HR, who do payroll, who do

[00:33:20] and we're not trying to get people fired here.

[00:33:22] We're just saying these are some things that it's

[00:33:25] sort of that tangential stuff that keeps the business

[00:33:29] going, but that doesn't necessarily it's not

[00:33:34] critical to your business.

[00:33:36] It's not for every role.

[00:33:37] It's a half to.

[00:33:37] This is not.

[00:33:38] Yeah.

[00:33:38] We're not suggesting this for every role.

[00:33:40] Right.

[00:33:40] Well, and a lot of these two remember,

[00:33:42] we're not saying that we're going to replace

[00:33:44] as an example, our HR people were saying.

[00:33:47] Exactly.

[00:33:48] We might be the ones supporting them because they're

[00:33:51] into maybe over their heads or they're growing

[00:33:55] and they don't know how to grow or whatever

[00:33:58] the case may be.

[00:33:58] Emotional support humans.

[00:34:00] Yes, we can be those.

[00:34:01] Exactly.

[00:34:02] And you're not going to.

[00:34:03] ESHs.

[00:34:03] You're not going to.

[00:34:04] They're sure new.

[00:34:05] If you'd like to be an ESH.

[00:34:10] Contact your doctor about ESH.

[00:34:15] Gosh.

[00:34:16] But think about it, you're not going to freelance your

[00:34:19] C-sweets either, right?

[00:34:20] So this is only up to certain points in the organization.

[00:34:24] You don't want an entire executive team of people

[00:34:27] who are all freelancers.

[00:34:28] Right.

[00:34:29] You still need people who are leading

[00:34:32] the charge of the organization and with skin

[00:34:35] in the game all the time every day for multiple years

[00:34:39] and have that consistency, right?

[00:34:42] But for how the work gets executed,

[00:34:46] that's what we're talking about here.

[00:34:49] Yeah.

[00:34:49] And I think another way that people can start,

[00:34:51] Trisha and I talk a lot about this in a lot of our

[00:34:53] trainings is if you do identify a particular

[00:34:58] department like let's say HR.

[00:35:00] And again, we're not looking to replace HR,

[00:35:02] but how can we better support them?

[00:35:03] Have your HR folks do a time study.

[00:35:06] So have them keep track of everything they do

[00:35:08] for an entire week and then figure out

[00:35:11] and how long they spend on those tasks.

[00:35:13] And then start to look at what is sucking up all of their time

[00:35:17] and is that something we can get off their plate?

[00:35:20] So oftentimes that's FMLA and ADA

[00:35:23] because those things suck up time,

[00:35:25] they're very complicated,

[00:35:27] there's tons of paperwork with FMLA.

[00:35:29] You can outsource that.

[00:35:30] You know how many people do just that?

[00:35:32] Yes.

[00:35:33] As self-employed individuals who created a company,

[00:35:36] you want a policy written,

[00:35:38] why agonize over doing that yourself?

[00:35:41] Yeah.

[00:35:41] Exactly.

[00:35:42] And little buzzkill here, I do have to say.

[00:35:45] Regarding the time study piece,

[00:35:47] be careful of how you message and communicate

[00:35:50] the time study.

[00:35:51] Right?

[00:35:52] So you want to be very gingerly, pun intended,

[00:35:58] from the sole ginger in the room.

[00:36:01] Be gingerly about how you communicate that

[00:36:04] in a way that doesn't sound like

[00:36:06] you're analyzing the time of your HR team

[00:36:09] and they're under the microscope

[00:36:11] and they have to show how they prove value.

[00:36:14] Obviously they prove value,

[00:36:15] that's not what this is about.

[00:36:16] Yeah.

[00:36:17] No, part of the messaging is we know

[00:36:19] that you are overwhelmed or we know

[00:36:22] that you've got a ton on your plate

[00:36:23] and you give so much to us.

[00:36:27] We're trying to figure out are there things

[00:36:29] we can take away so you can focus

[00:36:31] on the more important work?

[00:36:32] Help me help you.

[00:36:33] Yes.

[00:36:34] I love that.

[00:36:35] That's one of my favorite things.

[00:36:36] Yes, me too.

[00:36:37] Or how can I help you?

[00:36:39] I had a guy in one of my classes and his line was,

[00:36:42] how can I help you succeed?

[00:36:44] And I thought, ooh, I'm stealing that.

[00:36:48] How can I help you succeed today?

[00:36:51] Yes, please take that.

[00:36:53] Yeah, help me help you.

[00:36:54] I mean, we could all use a little more help these days.

[00:36:57] Yeah.

[00:36:58] Nobody's above.

[00:37:01] Too shatrish.

[00:37:02] Nobody should be above asking for help.

[00:37:04] Yeah.

[00:37:04] Agreed.

[00:37:05] I have one more buzzkill, which is time.

[00:37:09] The recovering employment law attorney over here.

[00:37:11] I know.

[00:37:12] But it is an employment law point,

[00:37:15] which is if you do start employing freelancers,

[00:37:19] you have to make sure they are truly independent contractors.

[00:37:23] So that means a 1099.

[00:37:25] Yes, a 1099.

[00:37:26] But it means more than that because the Department of Labor

[00:37:29] just came out with some new, well, they're old,

[00:37:33] but they're new again.

[00:37:34] Yes.

[00:37:34] Everything comes back around.

[00:37:37] Nothing is new, Julie.

[00:37:39] They came back out with the factors that they look at.

[00:37:42] So we'll include a link to that in our show notes.

[00:37:44] But you definitely want to make sure

[00:37:46] that you have them set up correctly.

[00:37:49] And they are truly an independent contractor.

[00:37:52] That's just really good article.

[00:37:54] Yes.

[00:37:55] Last week?

[00:37:55] I'm sure you have a contractor agreement

[00:37:58] stipulating what that means, what your expectations are,

[00:38:01] what you will not afford to them.

[00:38:03] The different goals are exactly right.

[00:38:05] Yes.

[00:38:06] Yes.

[00:38:06] So do all the things for all the people all the time.

[00:38:12] Wait, this is about HR professionals.

[00:38:15] We do do all of the things for all the people all the time.

[00:38:18] We really, really do.

[00:38:19] We do.

[00:38:20] We really are.

[00:38:21] I mean, you know, we're think about it.

[00:38:24] I've always said for as long as I've been in this industry,

[00:38:29] I've always thought about HR to me is the most important role

[00:38:35] in an organization.

[00:38:36] And that's because an organization is just an entity.

[00:38:40] It's an entity.

[00:38:41] It's a building.

[00:38:43] Good luck to you if you don't have people making

[00:38:45] that organization work.

[00:38:46] And we could get off on a tangent of AI

[00:38:48] that I will not go off on today.

[00:38:50] But that's a totally different podcast topic, I am sure.

[00:38:53] But if your people are not supported and not empowered

[00:38:59] and engaged, good luck to you.

[00:39:02] And we talk about organizational change.

[00:39:04] It's people change.

[00:39:05] That's what it is.

[00:39:06] And if it wasn't for HR to support those humans

[00:39:11] in their lives, in their organizations,

[00:39:14] again, you'd be at a huge deficit without that.

[00:39:18] Keep the human and human resources people always say.

[00:39:21] And I agree.

[00:39:23] Well, and now there's this trend of calling it people

[00:39:26] and culture.

[00:39:27] I don't care what you call it.

[00:39:28] It all centers around human beings,

[00:39:30] people, the talent in your organization.

[00:39:33] If you don't have that, you don't have an organization.

[00:39:36] Period.

[00:39:37] Mic drop!

[00:39:38] Mic drop.

[00:39:39] Totally.

[00:39:39] And again, we won't do that.

[00:39:40] No, because we don't own this equipment.

[00:39:42] Right.

[00:39:43] No, no.

[00:39:44] All right, so...

[00:39:44] It's very fancy.

[00:39:45] This has been a great conversation.

[00:39:47] I've had such a good time.

[00:39:48] Yes, so I think we should do a round of final thoughts.

[00:39:53] On the conversation.

[00:39:55] And then the wine.

[00:40:00] So Trish, any final thoughts?

[00:40:03] Yes, Julie, I actually do have a final thought.

[00:40:06] Wine.

[00:40:07] Just one.

[00:40:08] Just one left.

[00:40:10] I'm all out of thoughts,

[00:40:11] but this one does somehow seem to be rattling around up there.

[00:40:15] Talking about the hiring process.

[00:40:18] And everyone knows that I just,

[00:40:21] I love onboarding and hiring

[00:40:24] and really helping people feel welcome and included.

[00:40:27] And so I get that some people out there

[00:40:30] are probably thinking you're messing with that whole thing.

[00:40:34] And the truth is that we're not.

[00:40:37] We are giving you another tool in your tool belt

[00:40:41] or your bucket or whatever you wanna say.

[00:40:43] This is just one more tool for you to use

[00:40:46] during this critical time

[00:40:48] because there are a lot of people out there

[00:40:51] that want to work.

[00:40:52] But again, maybe cannot, as we've already said, full-time.

[00:40:57] There are a lot of people out there.

[00:40:58] So it's really not that the labor market is that short

[00:41:01] or that there aren't a lot of qualified,

[00:41:04] talented, amazing people out there.

[00:41:06] It's just that maybe a 40 hour a week position

[00:41:10] on site isn't gonna work for them.

[00:41:14] So this is just another tool y'all.

[00:41:15] Do not freak out.

[00:41:18] Okay, there's my thought.

[00:41:19] What about you?

[00:41:21] Sarah.

[00:41:22] So the freak out is real, let's be honest.

[00:41:24] And I wanna honor that because,

[00:41:27] again, if you're a seasoned HR professional or a leader

[00:41:30] and you've been in your seat for a really long time

[00:41:32] changes scary and it's scary for everyone.

[00:41:37] But that doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.

[00:41:41] And so let's dip our toe in the water at least.

[00:41:45] Again, nobody's got it all figured out.

[00:41:46] Let's dip our toe in the water

[00:41:48] with a couple of open recs that you have out there.

[00:41:51] And maybe encourage yourself to partner up

[00:41:55] with those managers and the individuals

[00:41:58] who interface with those roles

[00:41:59] and just have some open conversations.

[00:42:01] Not making any commitments of what you're gonna do,

[00:42:03] but having some conversation

[00:42:05] so that you can think of the role differently.

[00:42:09] I get it.

[00:42:10] This is a paradigm shift.

[00:42:12] We have never really looked at work this way before,

[00:42:18] but we are also in a different time

[00:42:21] than we've ever been before where lifestyles

[00:42:25] and livelihoods are important.

[00:42:27] And as a person who has supported employees

[00:42:31] throughout her entire career,

[00:42:33] I'm most excited about the employee engagement benefits.

[00:42:37] You engage your employees, you show them that you care

[00:42:40] not just about their work but about their life.

[00:42:42] They will give back to you tenfold.

[00:42:45] And I know I use the word employees,

[00:42:47] but I just mean talent in general,

[00:42:48] whether that's an actual employee,

[00:42:50] someone who's part-time or even freelancers.

[00:42:53] I love my clients.

[00:42:55] As a freelancer, as a self-employed person,

[00:42:58] I have those clients where they call, I come running

[00:43:01] because I am willing to do whatever it takes

[00:43:03] to support them in their mission

[00:43:05] and supporting their employees.

[00:43:07] And you can reap those rewards too.

[00:43:10] Absolutely.

[00:43:11] That's good.

[00:43:12] Yeah, and I think it's important to just to keep in mind

[00:43:16] that a lot of how we see things

[00:43:22] is how we think about things.

[00:43:25] And so if we can have those freakouts,

[00:43:28] you can go close a room and scream at the top

[00:43:31] of your lungs or do whatever you need to do

[00:43:34] to get it out.

[00:43:35] Get on the roof, maybe.

[00:43:35] Yeah, maybe the roof.

[00:43:37] Well, be careful up there.

[00:43:38] Yeah, be careful up there.

[00:43:41] But get the freak out out and then think about,

[00:43:46] start asking how could this benefit us?

[00:43:48] Like flip the script.

[00:43:51] Start thinking about, hey, this is happening

[00:43:55] to the point we've been making the whole time.

[00:43:57] This is happening whether you get on board or not.

[00:43:59] So it's like the train is either gonna pass you by

[00:44:03] or you're gonna be running to catch up to it

[00:44:06] or you can be driving it.

[00:44:09] So like-

[00:44:10] You wanna drive a train?

[00:44:11] Right?

[00:44:12] I do not.

[00:44:12] Oh, that'd be so fun.

[00:44:15] Pretty sure it's not driving a train either.

[00:44:18] Operating a train.

[00:44:19] But anyway, this is happening.

[00:44:23] So how can you make it work for you?

[00:44:26] And to Sarah's point,

[00:44:28] it doesn't have to be 100% right away.

[00:44:32] Pick one small area or one small role

[00:44:36] where somebody is leaving,

[00:44:37] where you have a prime opportunity to really look

[00:44:41] at that role, look at the work that's being done,

[00:44:44] figure out if you might be able to try this out

[00:44:46] and then see how it works.

[00:44:49] I think we all get so stuck being comfortable

[00:44:52] because comfort is easy and it feels good.

[00:44:56] But if we only do what's comfortable,

[00:44:58] we can't imagine what could be.

[00:45:02] We're not open to possibility and what could be.

[00:45:05] And that would make us stagnant.

[00:45:08] Yeah, change is hard,

[00:45:09] but change can also be wonderful.

[00:45:11] Exactly.

[00:45:13] You're here, let's cheers to that.

[00:45:16] My glass is empty, but I will cheers anyway.

[00:45:18] Well, we have more.

[00:45:19] You're top of the off jewels.

[00:45:21] Yes, yes, of course.

[00:45:25] Oh, jewels is right on board with the top off,

[00:45:27] right on cue.

[00:45:28] I am.

[00:45:29] Okay, so we do need to ask,

[00:45:32] what are you thinking about the wine now Trish?

[00:45:34] Now I am thinking I really do want spring.

[00:45:38] Right?

[00:45:39] Yes.

[00:45:40] You wanna be on a patio somewhere.

[00:45:42] And yeah.

[00:45:43] Yeah.

[00:45:44] I could be on a patio with a blanket or a heater,

[00:45:47] but I need to.

[00:45:48] A jar of fire pit.

[00:45:49] Yes, see, that's what we need to do.

[00:45:52] Yeah, with my dog,

[00:45:55] a nice glass of this wine.

[00:45:57] Right?

[00:45:58] Watching some spring flowers

[00:46:01] getting ready to bust open and just ready for.

[00:46:05] All the things.

[00:46:06] All the things.

[00:46:08] Ready for change.

[00:46:09] Ready for change.

[00:46:10] I see what you did there.

[00:46:12] Oh.

[00:46:12] Hope springs eternal.

[00:46:15] Wow.

[00:46:16] That was deep.

[00:46:18] So, Julie on that note,

[00:46:21] how did you like the wine?

[00:46:25] It is like hope in a glass.

[00:46:26] It's just nodding.

[00:46:27] She wasn't saying anything.

[00:46:28] Like our audience can actually see you.

[00:46:31] Mm-hmm.

[00:46:32] It's like, it's hope in a glass.

[00:46:34] Hope in a glass.

[00:46:35] That is, that's high praise.

[00:46:36] Hope in a glass.

[00:46:38] I have to say you guys,

[00:46:38] I have been honored to be a guest on many, many podcasts

[00:46:42] and this has been so fun,

[00:46:44] but this is the first one I've ever had the pleasure

[00:46:46] of enjoying wine during.

[00:46:49] And that really is a game changer.

[00:46:51] Right?

[00:46:52] Right?

[00:46:53] Wow.

[00:46:54] What a great idea.

[00:46:55] That really stumbled on something.

[00:46:57] Welcome to our lives.

[00:46:58] Which is the life of a freelancer.

[00:47:01] Yes.

[00:47:02] You did this.

[00:47:03] Yes, well thank you everybody for joining us.

[00:47:05] Thank you, Sarah for joining us.

[00:47:07] Thank you for having me.

[00:47:08] Sarah's good to know.

[00:47:09] I've really been so much fun.

[00:47:10] This was so great.

[00:47:10] Thank you.

[00:47:11] It was a very important conversation.

[00:47:12] We will have all of Sarah's information in the show notes.

[00:47:15] We'll also put it on social

[00:47:17] so that people can find you

[00:47:19] and gain your wisdom for themselves.

[00:47:24] I appreciate that.

[00:47:26] So, and with that,

[00:47:29] I have to say follow us on social

[00:47:33] and tune in wherever you get your podcast

[00:47:37] so you can see all of our other amazing ideas and...

[00:47:42] Episodes.

[00:47:42] Episodes.

[00:47:43] Cheers.

[00:47:44] Cheers.

[00:47:45] Plink.

[00:47:46] We have the coolest plastic wine glasses

[00:47:48] so they're not making any cheers sound.

[00:47:51] I know.

[00:47:52] I feel like we have to go.

[00:47:53] Ding!

[00:47:53] There we go.

[00:47:54] Or as they say in Ireland

[00:47:55] since Ashley is my report...

[00:47:57] Sonsha!

[00:47:58] Sonsha!

[00:47:59] Sonsha!

[00:47:59] Sonsha!

[00:48:00] Sonsha!

[00:48:01] Sonsha!

[00:48:02] Sonsha!

[00:48:03] Sonsha!