Ep 4- The Flame Of Tar Valon- The Wheel Of Time Recap Show

[00:00:05] Welcome to YouPodcast Presents The Wheel Of Time Recap Show. I'm Asim Bairni and I don't know anything about the books. I'm Sujoy, I've read up everything about the series except for the books. And I'm Amrita, I'm a Super Nerd who's read all the books.

[00:00:19] Welcome to a new episode of YouPodcast Presents The Wheel Of Time Recap Show. My name is Asim Bairni and I'm joined by Amrita and Sujoy. Hi Amrita, hi Sujoy. Hello. Hi Asim, hi Sujoy. Hello Amrita.

[00:00:38] For the people that are joining us for the first time, we're doing a spoiler-ific show. We're spoiling everything that's happening in the show. We're getting context about the books from Amrita but we're not going to spoil anything that we have not seen in the show yet.

[00:00:52] If you have any emails drop us one at YouPodcasting.gmail.com. This episode we're talking about Episode 6- The Flame Of Tar Valon. Yeah, this is like the final episode we have screeners for. So there might be some scheduling issues for the next two.

[00:01:12] It might be that we record them slightly later or you might get screeners. We never know, it's all a big surprise for us too. Amrita, this is the one that you were really hyped about right? What were your general thoughts about Episode 6?

[00:01:26] Oh, I want to know what you guys thought about this episode because there's so much stuff that is happening in this episode. And you already know that I really like this episode.

[00:01:37] And I think like I was very chuffed to find out on the Reddit boards that Brandon Sanderson who finished the book series. So Robert Jordan died after writing like 11 of these books. And 11? 12, 13, 14. Yes, 11 of these books.

[00:01:55] And the last three in the series was actually completed by this very famous author. Like he's famous now called Brandon Sanderson who was a big fan of the series. And he's I think a producer on the show as well, consultant producer.

[00:02:09] And he saw the screeners and he said his favorite was also number four and number six. So you know. But I don't know if that is just like a book reader's opinion or how newbies feel about it as well.

[00:02:22] So tell me what you guys think about the series. I mean this episode. So do I go for it man? I want to hear from you. So after the filler episode that was Episode 5, you know, because how the narrative has been so far.

[00:02:38] Episode 4 was the big action one where we got to meet Logan. We got to see him confront with Isidae. And then there was the big showdown and all of those consequences have been unraveling in Episode 5. And also in Episode 6.

[00:02:54] So from like from a series watcher, it still feels like a filler episode of the bigger things to come. It's still setting up things. It doesn't feel like it had the promise that you said Amrita for us. It hasn't been delivered yet.

[00:03:10] I think it still feels like it's setting up to something. Like the payoff that we got in Episode 4. I thought it was going to be somewhat of that extent. We did see a lot of events happening in this episode.

[00:03:28] We also have a major character being introduced in the cold open as well as throughout this episode. We get to see the one who rules the White Tower per se. You know, the character of Swan or how do you say her name? Swan is it correct? Suane.

[00:03:48] Maybe, but I've always said that Swan. So I'm probably wrong. But well, that's how I sort of heard her father call her name. So I'm going to go with that.

[00:04:04] But yeah, I still think that like with how the characters interacted with each other, this was like the fellowship is back again in the White Tower. So like a Gwain and Perrin and Matt and Rand and Neneve and even Morene and Lan, all of them are together now.

[00:04:25] But then of course at the end they are going somewhere else. So I'm still like this still feels like the middle installment of stuff to happen or setting up to wherever the next chapter will be. It does not make sense.

[00:04:42] It still feels like we have seen six episodes and maybe like I'm still holding back to something good to happen. Oh really? Okay. Yeah. That's surprising because this was my favorite episode. I really like this one because I feel. I feel to this two reasons.

[00:05:04] I think if you compare it with episode four, episode four was kind of also just setting things up and then the finale was kind of impressive.

[00:05:12] Whereas this I really liked it first of all because it was like a Morene centric episode and it was kind of linear where I it was something that I was annoyed by at the start because Morene needed to do so much exposition.

[00:05:28] Here there was much less of it. And I really like this timeline. Like, you know, we're going to get into it when we get into the plots of the episode itself. But Morene basically has 24 hours and she does so much shit in those 24 hours.

[00:05:43] I was like, wow, girl, you go like and she does and she takes like a sex break. So amazing, you know, like all of that great. You're not late to. Yeah, exactly. You are running late but you still want to get laid. That is amazing, you know?

[00:06:05] So yeah, I really like this episode and I'm glad that, you know, where they end up and that they're finally out of Rivendell, you know, which was kind of annoying me.

[00:06:15] And I also really like this kind of internal politics, intrigue, court intrigue that's going on and kind of like the secrets and things like that. I really, really like this episode a lot. So yeah, I'm happy you're happy. I didn't think you oversold this at all.

[00:06:33] I think this was exactly my jam, especially because last episode I was getting a bit down on the show and now I'm back. Now I'm back in. Pull me back in. I knew that Asim would like this show.

[00:06:46] I actually was not worried about Asim liking this show because this episode literally starts with the fathered auto moment and I was like, yeah, this is like, this is Asim's centre. Honestly, that really got to me. That really got to me.

[00:07:00] But like, I really want to know what's Sujoy things because like I feel like Sujoy is like more like the average non-book reader watching this show. So I was like, yeah. I'm also watching Lost in Space, right?

[00:07:21] And I'm really connecting with that show more with just three episodes in than Wheel of Time. So I don't know where I stand as an audience. But I hope Wheel of Time surprises me with episode seven because it's going to the next level right from here.

[00:07:37] So when they walk into the ways, so yeah. So apparently like episode seven is when Amazon saw the show and they were like, yeah, you can have a second season. So I'm expecting good things.

[00:07:54] But also like I feel like Amazon really doesn't understand the world of these books. So I'm also a little bit worried because from what the showrunners said of their notes during the making of this show, they had it all wrong.

[00:08:12] So I'm also a little bit jealous right now because I was watching the Graham Norton show and Henry Cavill was on for Witcher.

[00:08:23] The season two is coming out and he was talking about like, you know, like Graham was like, you know, doing banter about him being a nerd and like how much he enjoys the Witcher books and how he's such an expert.

[00:08:35] And Henry was like, yeah, I just wanted to make sure that we were as close to the source materials possible. And I was like, yeah, that's what I wanted. And I didn't get it. So but it's fine. It's fine. I don't know what it is.

[00:08:52] Like I made my peace for that. So it's okay. I really want to hear of in this episode if there were lots of changes or not from the books. I'm quite intrigued, right? Shall we get into the plot a little bit? Yes, please.

[00:09:05] So start we started with the cold open where we meet a father and daughter in a fishing village. The daughter possesses the one power their village is raided. I think and like a big mark is left on the ruins of their house.

[00:09:18] The father sends a daughter away to never come back. Later on we come to learn that the daughter is suene Sanche the head of the ice. I think it's called the ambulance seat. Is that what it's called? Yes, okay.

[00:09:32] She she is and she sits on the ambulance seat. I guess that's what I understood about it. And I'm going to tell you guessed it really well. This scene really got to me like especially the age of the daughter that you know the relationship that they have.

[00:09:47] I thought that was like like an amazing way to kind of introduce a character. What did what do you think of that? The cold open of this.

[00:09:57] So this is actually one of those things where I think I mentioned this in the last episode where one of the things that I've come to appreciate about the series is that they take things that are mentioned in passing in the books and then they flesh it out.

[00:10:15] Excuse me. So that's basically what's happening here because Suan Sanche every time we meet her she talks about being from this place called Tear or maybe it's Tear.

[00:10:27] And it's a place where they're not like the children of the light like they don't like they don't punish women who can channel or anything.

[00:10:40] But the thing is like as soon as they find out that there is a young girl or a young woman who can channel she's immediately sort of like hustled off to the tower because they don't want channelers in their kingdom. That's the whole deal.

[00:11:00] And this is something that Suan Sanche always talks about like about you know like how her dad was a fisherman and how she was hustled off to the tower and how she's a little bit bitter about the way that she was treated as a child.

[00:11:16] Not by her dad but like by the society in Tear. And also that you know she was like a good fisherwoman at a very young age. So all those things are being like very much utilized in these scenes.

[00:11:33] So the scene is not from the books but they use all this information to create this really lovely touching moment in the series. So I thought like that worked really well. What about you Sujan? Stone hearted person. You robot.

[00:11:54] I just hope like his father comes back into the picture. Otherwise it makes no sense for me as a plot point to show where she came from and she had to make that huge sacrifice.

[00:12:06] I hope that there is some point to the father character and that whole scene about you know when she would get to come back home. I hope that sort of comes full circle in some way.

[00:12:20] I thought it was interesting to see that you know that Suane comes from very humble backgrounds you know that she's not because they mentioned it later on in one of the scenes that you're like Moraine seems to be nobility within the ice.

[00:12:35] Whereas Suane seems to be you know she came from nothing and she had to leave it all behind and you know obviously this theme of you know sending children is something that's been happening in so many story lines throughout history. So that was kind of interesting.

[00:12:53] I'm not sure that dad will come back you know I think that's just kind of part of our backstory. I did want to ask Amrita like what is that sign that's marked on their house.

[00:13:05] Was that the Isidae or was that exactly I couldn't really make it out like who rated their village. Yeah I don't think so I couldn't see it very clearly either like the screener was kind of muddy so I couldn't really get a good glimpse of it.

[00:13:23] It wasn't muddy Amrita it was Asim's name written all over it. Asim rated the village. Yes so for the people who are wondering what we're talking about the screeners come with like Asim's name written in like giant letters right across. Asim doesn't pirate it.

[00:13:48] I feel like Sujoy's experience of this show would be better by like a hundred percent if he didn't have like Asim's name plastered all over it. I think Sujoy's existence would be good if I was just like erased from the timeline you know. Nobody would be bothering him.

[00:14:10] Where is this where is that. My experience of Wheel of Time is Asim is Isidae. Asim is the white clothes. Everything. Asim is the Trollogs. Asim is the dark.

[00:14:25] But in the books what I think what they did was like so there's a thing called the dragon's fang and so the you know the yin yang symbol. Yeah that's what it looked like to me yeah.

[00:14:41] So the yin yang symbol is basically the two halves of the one power. So you know it's like male and female power I guess. I'm trying to like explain it without going like too technical because I know like nobody cares.

[00:15:06] So the male half of the power has been corrupted. Like the male source of the power has been corrupted. That's why all the false dragons and the male chandlers go mad and that's why they must be gentle.

[00:15:26] So in the world of the Wheel of Time when people want to say that you are a dark friend or you know just to like you know say that you know there's something. You know how in Chuck the India they write you know like Gaddaar on Shahrukh's wall.

[00:15:47] Like an equivalent of that in this universe is when somebody scrolls like the part of the yin yang symbol that looks like a like a comma. So I think that's what it was and it shows that you know she's a chanelor so she's somehow like you know evil.

[00:16:07] Okay so wasn't the entire village that got raided it was just their house that got burnt. Okay good. Yeah let's move on then. So then we are in I guess current times were in Tarvalon. Logaine the false dragon is put in front of the Isidae Inquisition.

[00:16:33] Lianran who is clearly angling for power and is very anti-authoritarian has no respect for the ambulance seat. We learned that Suane was a blue Isidae and there's kind of a trial between her and Logaine.

[00:16:48] Logaine tries to provoke them but Suane says that you're going to just live your life in misery and that's your punishment.

[00:16:56] Morene is kind of put on the spot and commanded to explain what her mission has been for the past two years why she's been outside and what she's been doing outside of the White Tower.

[00:17:06] She refuses to answer and therefore will be punished in front of the Inquisition or the Council in 24 hours. Also like Logaine is trying to get himself killed but they're smart enough to see that and they're like no you're not going to be executed.

[00:17:25] You just have to live your life out so that everyone can see that this is what happens to male chanelors. What did you think Sujoy of this part of the episode like the whole council scenes and the thing like that?

[00:17:41] We really see how, I mean this is really kind of that political sequence right where there's like different factions and one are against the other. What did you kind of feel about that?

[00:17:53] It also like brought back the same aesthetics as the last episode with a lot of you know banning to the top shot where we get a bird's eye view of how the parliament at the White Tower looks like.

[00:18:09] With all the many sister factions of the High Zidae, the yellows are here as well. We haven't seen much of the yellows and this is probably the first time we see the yellows, the greens, the blues and the reds obviously.

[00:18:25] And then the main we get introduction to Suvain here as she walks in her golden cloak. It was a visual treat. As far as the politics I'm still not I don't know what it will take for me to get interested into this.

[00:18:42] It was like, oh, TK you guys are talking. How like when you were reading the book Samarita, so the character is played by quite a well known actress Sophie Okinawdu I think her name is? Yeah, Okinawdu. Okinawdu.

[00:19:06] Is that how you pictured her when you were reading the books? Yeah, I mean I not her precisely but yeah, kind of.

[00:19:19] Yeah, because I do think it like I almost felt it would be like a bigger name casting like the way they were not showing her face and like you know I thought like I was really happy with who they cast.

[00:19:34] I'm not you know but the way they were like making a deal out of it. I thought it was going to be like a really massive, you know well known face or something like that. But I mean. I wasn't bothered by the casting.

[00:19:47] I was kind of bothered by for one thing like her outfit wasn't what I imagined because that's not. That's not how the outfit but then like most of the outfits except for the white folks is not exactly how it's described in the books.

[00:20:04] So I was like okay, but you know how we were talking last episode about like where did all the money go because everything looks sort of like you know made of plaster of Paris.

[00:20:15] That's kind of how I felt about the entire like Tavelon sequence like especially the council because it's that same thing when we were talking about like you know like nothing looks lived in like everything looks like it was made in like MS paint and then animated so it just I don't I don't like it.

[00:20:39] I feel the hall could also been bigger like more people there. I don't know it just felt very I don't know it felt very like Jedi council like four people sitting there like it was quite bare bones. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know.

[00:20:56] Yeah, I think that question just keeps coming back you know where's the money really being spent here because the. Yeah, there was a Hollywood reporter article where the show runner. What's his name? Rafe Jotkins. He sort of mentions that you know compared to prime time.

[00:21:15] We only have a fraction of budget it's still quite a lot but compared to like Game of Thrones and obviously the next big one that's coming from Amazon which is Lord of the Rings.

[00:21:25] They have a fraction of budget of what Lord of the Rings is going to take. So I guess we're still not in the big leagues. They are sort of thinking of yeah. Yeah, I don't get that because like I think like the original like Fellowship of the Ring.

[00:21:47] Like what is the budget for those three movies? Because I think it was something like 85 million or something. Yeah, yeah. I mean they came out a while ago so maybe you know the same and they also did.

[00:22:00] Yeah, and also like they made some smart choices like you know go shooting it in New Zealand and like setting up a special effects studio and stuff like that.

[00:22:07] But I agree with you at the point that you know what I feel when they say you know we don't have the budget of Game of Thrones you maybe don't have the budget of season six but you might have the budget of season one because season one of Game of Thrones look quite cheap too you know.

[00:22:22] But they were working with a restrained budget but this just looks cheap where even the Witcher or Game of Thrones didn't you know. So I don't know I just feel maybe lack of talent. I don't know like you know that's kind of my thing.

[00:22:38] I just say it like the way I see it you know. I don't know. I'm not sure if this is a money thing though. It seems like the approach is wrong. I don't know. Yeah. Okay so moving on.

[00:22:53] Moraine gets news that Rand and Matt are hidden in the city. She heads to them and extracts the evil that is within Matt. She manages to win some of Rand's trust. Nineveh was on her way with more stuff to make tea.

[00:23:07] She gets pissed off that she doesn't get to make any tea and is again dubious. Moraine's intentions. Yeah I'm really kind of getting a bit tired of Nineveh's like the way she's kind of like written a bit one note here. It's getting a bit boring for me.

[00:23:30] Yeah and she's the leader of all the five ones. I would expect her to be like Moraine says if you are called the wisdom I suggest you use some. Yeah. That was such a bird. Did you guys understand what was wrong with Matt?

[00:23:49] Yeah it was the knife right? Whatever was like attacking them in Shadar Lagot was a bit of that was in the knife and he took it with him and it went to his body right? That's what happened? Yes.

[00:24:03] So I hope they don't curtail the Shadar Lagot storyline because that is actually one of the cooler and more sinister storylines of what happens and why Matt got infected when he picked it up. And there's actually an Easter egg in that episode like the Shadar Lagot episode.

[00:24:30] There's like a little thing that I don't think most like non-book readers picked up even I didn't pick it up until like I was on the Reddit and somebody was like I think I saw this and I was like what? What was it?

[00:24:46] So I don't know if I want to tell you right now but if we come to the end of the season and they haven't mentioned it then I'll tell you. I am making a note. I want to know. I'm going on Reddit. Just curious George.

[00:25:10] I would be surprised if they come back to Shadar Lagot. I feel like they've kind of like already put that like into bed and like moving on towards the things. I don't know.

[00:25:19] I might be wrong but yeah, I was happy that Rand is finally trusting Moraine a little bit more. Although maybe Moraine shouldn't be trusted and I think we'll see that in the next part which is shall we move on or anything else we want to talk about?

[00:25:35] Na'neef's tea. Egwin and Perrin have also arrived in Tarvalon. Perrin is being healed by one of the yellow eyes, Sadiq from the torture he was submitted to by Imon Valda.

[00:25:49] Egwin gives the ring she took from the white cloaks and tells Moraine of Perrin's powers or his yellow eyes. Moraine kind of commands her not to mention this to anyone as it might be very, very dangerous.

[00:26:02] She also tells her that she does not know where Na'neef, Matt and Rand are but she will tell him once they arrive. So clearly Moraine is not 100% to be trusted here, right? When she's not telling Egwin where everybody is and they've already arrived.

[00:26:21] So I guess that puts Na'neef's caution, you kind of understand it. But still, I still think Na'neef should move on as a character and kind of maybe have a bit more trust like Rand. Or add one little beat to it somewhere.

[00:26:42] So Moraine sets up rendezvous with both other teams, right? With Rand and Matt as well as Perrin and Egwain. And then what's the name of the red eyes? Sadiq Leandrin, she sort of finds out that Moraine is doing all this stuff.

[00:27:03] But Moraine then threatens her not to tell anybody about it because she has some dirt on her. What exactly does she say? I couldn't really make it out.

[00:27:16] So Leandrin has been, I'm glad you asked Sujoy because I think it's going to be an important plot point later on. But Leandrin is apparently meeting a man in one of the ins in the city in secret.

[00:27:30] So clearly she doesn't hate men as much as she kind of makes the claim of, right? I mean, it's a spoiler so I'm not going to say anything.

[00:27:40] But also the thing that you need to get from what everything the tower politics and also that scene with Leandrin is that remember how I told you that the blues are like spies and diplomats? So they have the best spy network of anyone in this entire land.

[00:28:05] So not just in Tavelon but anywhere. Like they know everyone and everything. And it's a very extensive spy network. And I think that's also why the reason why she finds everybody in this episode so quickly. She sees Egwin, she sees Perrin and she knows about Leandrin.

[00:28:26] I was a bit surprised that Leandrin already knew about Moraine and Rand and the river folk. That's what you call all five of four of them. The two rivers. Yeah, two river folk. I was surprised that she knew. I thought the spy network would be slightly better.

[00:28:44] But I did like that. Moraine pushed back a little bit against Leandrin because I was getting a bit sick and tired of her evil and the energy that she was kind of bringing to this. Mother-in-law for those that don't speak Urdu and Hindi.

[00:29:05] I've got another question for Amrita. So we quickly establish here that Moraine already has a good relationship with Loëil. Is that so in the books? Well, obviously that has already happened because Moraine is a native of the White Tower. Oh, no. They've never met before.

[00:29:28] They're meeting for the first time. But Loëil is an Ogeer and Ogeers have... They're not differential to the Isidae but they have a lot of respect for the Isidae and vice versa. So they don't know each other before. I don't know.

[00:29:47] Is it because they knew how to greet each other? Did you think that way? Like, Loëil is instantly on his cool with whatever... Team Moraine. Yeah, pretty much. He instantaneously joined Team Moraine. That's why what sort of made me ask this question. I don't know why.

[00:30:12] Yeah, there... So the thing with Loëil is that he's also very young. Like he's a very young Ogeer. He's not yet 90 years old. So he's basically a baby. He's not an Oge-Ogeer. And also the Ogeer culture is sort of matriarchal. So he's used to deferring to women.

[00:30:40] But also this woman is Isidae. He's in Tavelon. All that combines. So he doesn't know Moraine from before. And also Moraine is not Tavelon royalty. She's actually a princess from another kingdom. And also I don't know if you guys remember,

[00:31:02] but in the first or second episode when Moraine is talking to Naini, Naini was like giving this big speech about her old wisdom who like walked all the way to Tavelon and then got turned away because she was poor.

[00:31:18] And that is clearly not true as we've just found out because Suan Sanche was like as poor as poor can be and she was allowed in. So I don't know if that's significant because that scene between Naini and Moraine was not in the book.

[00:31:37] So I don't know how they're setting that up. Right. Interesting. Interesting. But what is Loyal actually doing in the city? Like is he a librarian? Is he a builder? I don't understand what his purpose is. That is a good question because in the books

[00:31:56] he was not in Tavelon actually. He was on his way to Tavelon but he was actually in this other city. And what he's doing is he's a writer and he's researching like the different groves. So the thing that the Ojiar do is that they are stone masons.

[00:32:15] So they build all these places. But that is not something that they like to do. That is just something that they do like, you know, it used to be a hobby and now they make money with it. So like that's why they go to all these different cities

[00:32:31] and like build these fancy like palaces and you know public buildings and stuff. But it's like a Etsy store? Yeah. That's gone out of the hand. Yes, a very successful Etsy store. But the thing is like everywhere the Ojiar go they, oh this is like really complicated

[00:32:58] but they are very connected to nature and especially trees. So there are these, every city that they work in there is this grove is what they call it. And it's just basically like a giant forest that the Ojiar grow so that they can feel at home

[00:33:18] while they're working, you know, in that city. So Loyal was basically researching the different groves around the world. So he was traveling from like big city to big city to take a look at what the groves look like, you know, like centuries after they were planted

[00:33:35] and whether they even exist anymore. So he's a historian slash writer. That's his job. Yeah. Because they didn't mention something about building. So when they came later on to the Waygate I thought he'd built that like really quickly. I thought he was like a really quick builder.

[00:33:53] But yeah, okay. So the Waygate was actually built by male channelers right after the dragon died the first time around. So, and there's a whole other story about that. But basically the ways were a way for the Ojiar to move really quickly from one city to the next

[00:34:19] or like back to their homes, which are called steadings. So that's what the ways were originally for. But I think they'll probably explain that in the next episode. It's like a Stargate, right? That's what it is. Yeah, I guess so. Okay. Moving on. Sween and oh, oh yeah.

[00:34:45] So we see Moraine and Lan have a discussion while Moraine is doing her nighttime moisturization routine. It is, she opens up like a secret portal and it is revealed that Sween and Moraine are secret lovers who meet in this magical portal's jungle sex hut

[00:35:04] and they are building, they are working together and Moraine says that when she, when Sween gives the punishment it has to be exile because one of the blues blue, I said I want had commanded her to stay in Tarvalon because she had traveled too much.

[00:35:21] I think, yeah, there was a lot going on in that scene. I felt I was missing a lot of context. There's a lot of intrigue here. There's a lot of revelations here. Clearly they have like a plan that they've been working on for a very long time.

[00:35:36] It also seems that Sween knows about the dragon. So she's Moraine tells her about the dragon and the prophecy might be right and there might be five dragons. So there's a lot going on. So Joy, do you feel that there was maybe too much going on

[00:35:51] or were you just like blown over by the big reveal here? What was the big reveal? That they're secret lovers dude. I didn't think that was a big reveal. The sexual tension was already there. It was palpable? Okay. No, I'm joking. I was like okay, they're kissing now.

[00:36:15] I did really laugh at the on your knees, but I was really like laughing really loud at that one. I don't know. I'm still not sure about the series yet. I'm just here for the ride. Okay. Amrita? I was actually really glad to see that same.

[00:36:50] So what happened was like this series was conceived in the 80s and then it started being published in like 91, 92 which was like at the height of the AIDS crisis. So Jordan did mention that Moraine and Swan are what he called pillow friends in the tower

[00:37:17] which basically just and he sort of like within that world like it's supposed to be like very common in the tower for young novices to make pillow friends as they call them and then they don't usually continue to be that way into adulthood.

[00:37:38] With Moraine and Swan, they don't really tell you whether or not they continue to be pillow friends into adulthood but it is true that they have been working together to find the dragon and they've been doing that for a long time

[00:37:56] like Swan in the tower and Moraine out in the world. So they've been living apart basically for 20 years trying to find who the dragon is and like make sure that he's safe. But then what happened was like once Jordan died and Brandon Sanderson took over,

[00:38:16] it kind of felt like he ignored that there were gay people at all in this world and sort of like rewrote all the characters as like incredibly siss hat and that was very upsetting to a number of fans of the books. It's actually a pretty big controversy.

[00:38:40] So yeah. I also felt there was maybe some past between Moraine and Leandren. I almost felt a few times that they had also had like a past together or something like that. So I mean, I wasn't maybe a shocked

[00:38:58] because I felt something like that was kind of probably coming and it's something again, I think it's anchored in history and this used to happen or still happens I guess where you have like one gendered kind of community. But where are they meeting exactly?

[00:39:17] What is that portal she kind of gets into? Is that still in Tarvalon or did they go off in space like we're in the dimension? What is that? I have no idea. Like that is completely new to me. Like I have no idea at all what that is.

[00:39:31] I think it's probably a terrain real of some kind, but I have no idea what that is. Because I think it's very interesting like what the show shows you and doesn't show you in terms of power because even like we're supposed to see that,

[00:39:45] you know, the ambulance seat is the most powerful I said I I think it's even written in the IMDB summary that she's the most powerful, but we never get a moment like in, you know, in Lord of the Rings when you meet first time

[00:39:57] we meet Galadriel in the woods and she has this sudden burst of power and you're like, oh my dear Lord, she is so powerful. And I never had that. Oh, I so okay. So this is something that I think the show needs to do

[00:40:14] a better job of explaining because I totally understand where you're coming from. But that is not what they mean when they say the most powerful I said I they mean that she's powerful in a political sense. They don't mean powerful in terms of like,

[00:40:28] like, you know, actual like power and the strength like 90 is like way more strong in the power than any of these people. Yeah, so that I find that a bit surprising that what they're showing and what they're not showing because it everybody seems differential towards her.

[00:40:47] But like if she's like, is it because if it's from political power, they don't show that either, you know that she has like, you know, hold on it hold on all of the I said I she seems to be

[00:41:00] very much like a pope figure or something like that. So and they even mentioned last time that Leandren is kind of really angling for power and getting more and more influence. So it just yeah, I find it a bit surprising

[00:41:12] that you know it's not actual power but political power. So yeah, the show definitely doesn't kind of shows that okay the Amal and also see see it's when gets to meet nine even egg win and I pretty much wrote down nine Eve gonna nine Eve, you know.

[00:41:30] Yeah, nine Eve is having none of it and she's just being like a prissy teenager again. I didn't get much out of the scene to be honest. I also yeah, just it's annoying. I don't understand what nine Eve's problem is. I initially when the cold open was happening,

[00:41:50] I thought that was nine Eve's past and that would have maybe established why she's you know the way she is. But when it was later revealed that it was actually so in I was like, okay, nine Eve is just they still haven't explained why she's and also

[00:42:03] I think the only connection she really has was with Lan and Lan does nothing again in this episode. So everybody feels like unthedred, you know it's I don't know like what would that work for you as Sujoya? I'm guessing no but what do you mean? No.

[00:42:22] It didn't know. Lan is such a useless character in the show so far. I just can't believe like they got this really good looking actor to play a badass samurai kind of guy. He should be the arrogant of this show but he is

[00:42:40] worse than Samurai's Gomji, you know? It's too sad. Like I can't even like argue with that because it's true like this is not the Lan that we read in the books. Yeah. It sucks. What about a Gwyn and nine Eve meeting Suayn what did you think of that?

[00:42:59] Is that like a book convention? No, no, go ahead. No, so that scene does happen but it happens in a different place and I it doesn't really make a lot of sense now like how they've placed it so I don't really understand what's happening there.

[00:43:17] Yeah, yeah because I don't think because it's not established what why Suayn is so powerful. Nine Eve is clearly not listening to her and even a Gwyn she's not really like she was going to get trained as one of you know the wisdoms or something like that.

[00:43:36] I don't like it just seems nothing that doesn't even seem that they bother through right decent dialogues for anybody. It's it's it felt like a very odd weird scene and especially when you have 24 hours to kind of sort all of his stuff out.

[00:43:51] I don't know if this was done as well. Yeah. So Amrita like in the timeline of the books, have we finished book one yet or are we still going or are we like leaping through different books now? No, we haven't come to the climax.

[00:44:11] I think the season will end with the climax of book one but also like it's weird because they're sort of taking a few things from like other books but they're also fleshing out the backstory. So there's like big chunks of book one that

[00:44:33] they've left out in order to replace it with backstory. So it's all kind of uneven. Like I think that's why you're noticing all these facing issues because it's still sort of weird. I don't know. I'm waiting to finish the entire series so

[00:44:49] that I can go back and watch it from the beginning and like binge it and maybe that would be a different experience than what I'm having right now. Yeah. So moving on, Moraine is brought in front of the White Tower Castle.

[00:45:05] Her punishment is banishment and she has to hold like a stick. Apparently that stick is really powerful and important. It's not established in the show whatsoever. She just has to hold the stick and then everybody starts crying and I think she needs to make a promise that's bonding.

[00:45:25] And I think what's probably is important is that Suane and Moraine will not be able to meet again. I think that's what the show is trying to tell us but it doesn't really tell us that in a clear manner. Also nobody still knows about their portal sex hut.

[00:45:45] Yeah. Or they haven't told anybody, right? Like who knows? Like yeah, I don't know. I'm sure Leandrin knows. Leandrin knows everything man. Yeah. I mean anything to say that really? Was that done well Amrita? I thought this was not a good scene. It was weird because the

[00:46:09] so that stick is actually the Oath Road and the Oath Road is basically that's the stick that you use when you are becoming an Isidae. Like you swear you're, you remember like early on Moraine explaining to Agni about the different Oaths that you must take.

[00:46:31] Like not to kill except in defense of oneself, not to lie, not to make any weapons made of the one power. So those are the, those are binding Oaths. Like you can't break them even if you wanted to. So those are the Oaths that you swear

[00:46:49] on the Oath Road, on the Oath Road. But I like, I don't know why she would use the Oath Road to make this promise. Like that makes no sense to me. I also didn't feel that like her, like why was the punishment so severe?

[00:47:06] Like I don't like she just basically didn't tell her and that's it. Like this whole sequence didn't make sense to me. I mean, I understand that that's their plan. But even then why was banishment with the Oath Road needed? You could just like, you know,

[00:47:22] continue your mission, don't come back until you do this. You know, there are many ways to do that, but I don't know. I don't know why like, especially because in the books they have this thing like exile in the books is basically

[00:47:35] the Isidae is sent away to like work on a farm. So she could have like literally been like go to this farm and like work on it. And Maureen could have been like, you know, sure, I heard you without having to make a promise.

[00:47:50] And then she would have just gone and like done whatever she wanted to. So I don't really understand what this is. And especially because Go ahead. Sorry. So like Leandren got away with murder basically. Yeah. And so easily and she played the head of the Isidae.

[00:48:08] That was more troubling to me. Like that's like she manipulated everybody in front of everybody in the court. So easily that was what was jarring. Yeah. So that's an important plot point. And I want you to remember that. Yeah. I agree with you.

[00:48:26] And I also felt that it will, I mean this, this, this is a very important part of the story. I mean, this, this treatment of Maureen is probably going to hurt Suane later on because her, her judgment doesn't seem to be fair at all.

[00:48:41] So that's what I was thinking, you know, this is probably going to play in Leandren's favor later on. She got what she wanted. And I feel that more Moirene is being very dismissive of Leandren's, you know, kind of her, her thirst for power.

[00:49:01] Like everybody's told her this already. And now even more because she's in a relationship, like Moirene is actually in a relationship with the, you know, with the Amal En Cid then it should be even more important to kind of sideline Leandren, but she's not doing that.

[00:49:15] And it's not even something that they discuss when they're in their jungle hut. So it seems weird to do that. Yeah. Okay. Moving on. She is banished, but it was all because of Maureen's plan that she had asked Lan and Loyal to bring the two reverse folk

[00:49:34] to the Waygate, a portal to where the dark power has been kept imprisoned. But since they don't know who the dragon is, they all have to go and confront the dark power. The portal is closing and the final moments, Matt stays behind and the portal closes.

[00:49:53] I thought it was weird that Matt pretty much made a joke and did what he was joking about. I thought that was a bit kind of a weird thing to do. Yeah. I don't know. Well, yeah. This, I think this part left me with more questions than

[00:50:11] anything else about where they are, where they're going and why Matt is acting the way. Like I feel all of the two river folks were not written well in this episode. I think it was okay. It was a Maureen centric episode, but everywhere,

[00:50:26] but he else seems to have been forgotten. Like, you know, it seemed a bit weird to me, especially if it seems that Matt is now healed. Why was he not like, you know, more kind of like Jovial and happy to be normal again? Yeah.

[00:50:43] What did you guys think? So I have a question for Amrita. Is Matt the way he's acting? Is it still true to what happens in the books or this is a completely different twist? Does he stay behind? No, so he doesn't stay behind.

[00:51:00] So I have no idea either like what is happening. Oh, especially because the actor who's playing Matt left the show at the end of the season. So I don't know what they're planning to do with Matt's character. Like I have no idea what's happening next.

[00:51:18] But as far as Matt going back to being the Jovial character that he was before, like that is an important plot point and you can keep an eye out for that. Also did Loya follow them in the gate or did he stay behind? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:51:37] Loya was a guide through the ways. Because in the ways, like you'll see that, I expect you'll see that in the next episode, but in the ways there are signposts to tell you because it's literally like you're going into the dark, right?

[00:51:52] Like how do you know where to get to, how to get to like whatever it is that you're going. So there are different signposts for you to get to wherever it is that you're going. But the signposts are written in Osier script.

[00:52:08] So you either need to learn Osier or else you need to be with an Osier who can read it. So, yeah. That sounds a bit silly. Is it that hard to learn a language? I don't know. Anyway. Also they're not in where,

[00:52:33] so it's kind of like a highway. They have to travel in that space before they get. I thought they were going where they needed to be. I think I thought that was where the dark power was. You just go through the way gate.

[00:52:47] So now they have to travel through it. Yeah. Okay. So it's really like the mountain in Lord of the Rings. Yeah. Yeah. Motor, mountain. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Anything else? What else am I missing there? I think that was kind of it.

[00:53:13] I think the two seconds that we saw Lan with Maureen, like that was again very nice. Because he feels like, clearly he knows what's happening between her and Zuan. And he says, give her my love,

[00:53:28] which sort of tells you how close he and Maureen are to each other and how they're just really best friends at this point. And they have like no secrets between them as such. But apart from that, I don't know, I really enjoyed this episode.

[00:53:50] I think there was like a whole bunch of things that I really enjoyed. I liked the, you know, Zuan's past. I liked the fact that we got to see Maureen and Zuan together. I liked Lan and Maureen together. And also there's just things that are happening here

[00:54:06] that I don't understand, like the whole Matt staying behind thing. Like it makes me wonder what's happening in the next episode. So I think like this was the first episode that I watched, which made me want to watch the next episode. And I was like, oh, Dan,

[00:54:20] I don't have another screener for that. So I don't know. I had a good time watching it. So I think we have how many episodes that we left? Two more, right? Two. Yeah. What are your expectations? I think you,

[00:54:36] you think they've managed to wrap this up in a kind of night little bow, nice little bow before we're done? Or is it going to be kind of an open-ended end of the season? I can't answer that without spoiling things. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I think we are,

[00:54:57] we are set up like they can definitely come to the end of book one, like the climax of book one. Yeah. They can definitely do that in two more episodes. Because to me it feels like they're only like on page 35 of the book.

[00:55:13] Like, I think there's like, I don't know. I don't know we've gone wrong. Yeah. We've not gotten enough from this world for like six episodes. Five, you know, like I think they could have packed a lot more in it or done it slightly better. So I'm like,

[00:55:29] I was kind of just worried if this is going to be like a very unsatisfying ending in two more episodes left. So yeah. I still don't understand why it's eight episodes. Like it should have been at least 12 in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:55:44] It just feels like off the way the show, the pacing is I feel, especially if you have an episode like episode four in it, if you only have eight episodes or five, sorry, that was a very slow episode. I don't know why the pacing seems really off.

[00:55:58] So I'm really keen to hear on people that, you know, binge the show when it's once it's all done. How they feel about it. If they feel differently than we, because we've been watching it in advance and stuff like that. So Joy, anything on the internet?

[00:56:11] Anything on Reddit that you wanted to talk about anything that you picked up on? Yeah. So there have been some new cast members that have been cast for season two into the recurring cast members. So some of them I'm just going to list them down.

[00:56:28] Thomas Channing would be Lord Agilmar. Again, all these names. I'll be butchering them. Sandra Yi, Sensen Diver is playing Lady Amalisa. Guy Roberts is playing Uno Nomesta. Arnaz Fedaravichias is playing Massema Daggar. And Greg Chillingirian is playing Ink Tarshinoa.

[00:56:50] I don't know all these names don't mean anything to me, but I guess these will be season two characters. No, I think you'll see them in the next episode actually. Okay. And yeah, a lot of positive feedback from like book fans on Twitter.

[00:57:08] That's what I've picked up from people are praising Perrin a lot. And people are thirsting over Daniel Henne as around, but obviously we are quite disappointed by how Alan has made the show so far. And everybody is very, very much, you know,

[00:57:31] amazed by the power of Moraine as the head of, well, the front and center member of Isidae. So I've got a question. Do we get any more war scenes like airbending and fighting with the Trollops? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank God.

[00:57:59] Another thing that somebody pointed out on Reddit was there is animated bonus content on Amazon Prime for Wheel of Time. So I'll definitely check that out. Oh, interesting. Yeah, I'll check that out too. Because that's another thing like you, I think I've mentioned this to you before,

[00:58:15] but like there's like a lot of like history that they talk about, you know, like long ago, like this is King, there's this Queen and like this is what happened. And I honestly was like, why wouldn't they just animate it and put it there?

[00:58:30] Because then it'll become like action and it wouldn't be, you know, just exposition like two people walking along and the other person, one person seemed to be other like, so this happened and that happened. So we can actually see that happening, you know,

[00:58:43] and you don't need to cost like 500 other people. So I don't know why they didn't have that. So I really want to check out what's on Prime.

[00:58:53] So the one that we definitely mentioned in our previous episode was the absence of a map and they've done it in animation. So that's there. The landscape, there is a bit of the man ethereum backstory,

[00:59:09] the Trolloc attacks captured in snapshots and a bit on the white towers interiors as well. Yeah, I'm also kind of sad if we're not going to see Priyanka Bose again. I thought she was kind of a badass Isidae. She's playing Alana and you know, with this banishment,

[00:59:30] I kind of liked a few of the Isidae so it's kind of going to be a bit sad that we're not going to see them again for a while, I guess. Anything else that we want to cover? Think we're good? No, yeah, pretty much it.

[00:59:45] Yeah, I guess that's it. I guess we have two more episodes to go. We have what about the other episodes? There's the dark along the ways and the eye of the world. So I'm excited. I'm excited. Sujoy is less so but I am very excited.

[00:59:58] I'm excited for the most of us. Amrita, where can people find you online? You can find me on Twitter at AmritaIQ. Sujoy? I'm on Twitter at 93K. I'm at Arsene Bernie. You've been listening to the U Podcast Wheel of Time Recap show. Thanks for listening.

[01:00:19] We'll be back with two more episodes before Christmas. So this is fun. I'm enjoying it. If you have any emails, let us know at upodcastingatgmail.com and yeah, drop us a review if you have a chance. Thanks for listening.