[00:00:00] On this episode I am afraid personal and professional lines are going to get blurred because my family
[00:00:07] is visiting.
[00:00:08] One of the guests is my brother Adhaar Khurana and the other is my father and stalwart
[00:00:12] Akash Khurana and we are going to try really hard to have a linear and meaningful conversation.
[00:00:18] Good luck to us.
[00:00:25] Welcome to the show Adhaar, welcome to the show Dad thank you for being here.
[00:00:29] So guys excited to be here on how is it feeling here?
[00:00:34] I don't know it's strange.
[00:00:35] Yeah, are you a fan of this podcast have you been?
[00:00:38] I'm a fan I mean a bigger fan than most people imagine because I've seen everything so far
[00:00:45] Have you seen anything?
[00:00:46] Some no yes yes yes yes yes no no no I think the reals are all over the world.
[00:00:55] But I think it's nice and fitting that the last episode of the season that I'm shooting
[00:00:59] is with the two of you all right I mean don't you think that you saved the nepotism till
[00:01:03] the end?
[00:01:04] Yeah and actually that's what I wanted to start by talking about nepotism.
[00:01:07] My first card note is nepotism.
[00:01:10] Excellent yeah at least you are transparent.
[00:01:13] Yeah absolutely good.
[00:01:14] Absolutely.
[00:01:15] This is the week of a small family business opening.
[00:01:17] Which is actually my lead over there thanks for ruining my links.
[00:01:20] Oh fuck.
[00:01:21] I was supposed to lead to you can square on YouTube.
[00:01:24] Square on YouTube.
[00:01:25] Square on YouTube.
[00:01:26] Yeah you can swear on YouTube.
[00:01:27] Square on YouTube.
[00:01:28] Nepotism was supposed to lead to small family business but I'll still do it and pretend
[00:01:33] like it didn't happen.
[00:01:34] So and this will not come out this week now.
[00:01:37] Small family business will be.
[00:01:38] Oh it's in the past.
[00:01:39] Yeah okay okay.
[00:01:40] How does it matter?
[00:01:41] It's in the past.
[00:01:42] Okay so why don't we start talking about nepotism yeah dad what do you feel about this whole
[00:01:48] nepotism discussion that going on is there any merit in it?
[00:01:52] Yes and no because there are times that all things constant nepotism helps but you can't
[00:02:02] undervalue talent.
[00:02:04] So if you are here for a long haul then the gates may open but they can shut quickly too.
[00:02:13] Also there's this whole nature versus nurture debate.
[00:02:17] I think it's a question of legacy.
[00:02:19] Nepotism in its purest form is about legacy and if you look at artisans and the big basic
[00:02:26] crafts that civilization grew on a potter sun would traditionally be a potter sun and
[00:02:34] yeah we are artists and probably if actors or people in the film business weren't perceived
[00:02:43] as part of the glamour, Raspata Shobhis world it wouldn't have gone got the hype that
[00:02:50] it did.
[00:02:51] Yeah I mean traditionally even now like doctors families have doctors and there's an
[00:02:55] expectation everywhere so I think there's no big deal about it but yeah if you think
[00:03:01] that's the only thing that works and those who sort of are not up to believing in this
[00:03:05] cause and typically they would be a group that's not part of the nepotism circus
[00:03:13] as it were then perhaps they should be reassured that if someone gets in and is not talented
[00:03:21] enough probably that journey's not going to be very long.
[00:03:25] Yeah no and what we were talking about and it's Adhar is directing a play called Small
[00:03:33] Family Business and technically if one looks at the larger umbrella of performing arts
[00:03:38] or theatre for example because we're talking about that kind of tends to be our family
[00:03:42] business in that sense right I mean we've got that to take I mean and AKVarius has now
[00:03:47] been around for 23 years which has kind of been a business in that sense and so exactly
[00:03:54] what you said but just a little bit to get you talking a little bit is that there was
[00:03:59] a very conscious decision that you took at some point of time in life to run away from
[00:04:03] the family business.
[00:04:04] Now that we've established the family business so talk us through that why did that happen
[00:04:09] do you think?
[00:04:10] I mean I'd more than I mean of course I don't know if it was somewhere like deep rooted
[00:04:17] rebellion in a sense also but I think it was also because with both of y'all growing
[00:04:23] up having all around I think there was a fair amount of this world already like available
[00:04:32] to me and it was in front of me so perhaps there was a inherently it was somewhere you
[00:04:37] know just break away from that and find your own identity or calling in that sense so I
[00:04:42] think it was that more than just the rebellion I mean yes maybe the rebellion is a part
[00:04:46] of it but I think it was also like it felt like when I did go away to SWATON 2 study for
[00:04:51] UNZICS it was also like perhaps that I had tick mark these boxes in a sense of course
[00:04:57] not like actually being an integral part of it but all my access to it living by
[00:05:03] care is through y'all whatever it is so I think there was it was more that than just a
[00:05:08] rebelist like whatever that kind of decision in that sense.
[00:05:12] But why forensics?
[00:05:14] I think there was there was an inclination to one science for sure and I think there
[00:05:18] was something about in the science it wanted it should be appealing or interesting and
[00:05:25] I think because of the upbringing in a sense there was always obviously you reading kind
[00:05:30] of fiction detective stories and that fascinated me a fair amount so I think then that kind
[00:05:34] of fell through and then when you all just said and I think initially there was conversation
[00:05:39] about me perhaps doing biotechnology because I think that was up and coming but I think
[00:05:44] then when this whole like suddenly there was this whole world introduced to me or forensics
[00:05:50] I think there was a study like it's not only just the science and the studying aspect
[00:05:55] per se there's also like a massive interest towards it I think because of course when I
[00:06:00] went to university it was absolutely different in fact I think our first lecture they told
[00:06:04] us that if you are here because you like love CSI then get the hell out but you hadn't
[00:06:10] seen CSI.
[00:06:11] I had read Feluga.
[00:06:12] I read Feluga was the hardy boys what that kind of stuff so I think yeah it just became
[00:06:19] an interesting science like my interest was peaked in that sense so yeah that's why forensics.
[00:06:25] And I'm going to do brief segue I'm going to come back to the forensics and Feluga we
[00:06:29] have been speaking about Feluga Feluga is by Saty Jitri and you had the opportunity
[00:06:34] and not too many people know about this too that you had worked with Saty Jitri.
[00:06:39] So you will tell us a little bit about that.
[00:06:40] So Manik the Saty Jitri was actually mentoring a project for his son, right?
[00:06:47] So I'm Deepri who directed something for Durga Rishan the short stories written by Manik
[00:06:55] the I think yes all of them okay and they were typically nostalgic old world sort of
[00:07:02] episodes and I had the good fortune of being in the same room with him.
[00:07:08] But as I know you were doing a lot of acting how did you get on to their radar how did
[00:07:11] that happen?
[00:07:12] Because Calcutta is a I don't know I think Saty might have seen some of Sham Benigles
[00:07:20] right the films that they filmed or some recommendation through an AD or I think Sham Babu's actors
[00:07:31] got list and then because there were others also and really forget there were eight short
[00:07:37] stories there were very nice and comfortable and there's an ethos in film making then Calcutta
[00:07:46] which was efficient but extremely easy paste.
[00:07:50] But his son was directing this.
[00:07:51] His son was directing.
[00:07:52] He was a comic as I did.
[00:07:53] He was a comic as I did.
[00:07:54] And he was a comic as I did.
[00:07:55] And he was a comic as I did.
[00:07:56] And Manik Derby, Manik Der just he would drop gems that didn't mean anything on the
[00:08:02] surface but became high motivational gems for me.
[00:08:08] That was precious.
[00:08:10] And so coming back to that so then you went to Glasgow and you were doing forensic biology
[00:08:14] and then as circumstances had it you actually found your way back to the family business
[00:08:20] and how disappointing was that?
[00:08:22] I mean I think it took some time it did take a couple of years to kind of just figure
[00:08:26] it out and kind of like be like okay this is my reality now.
[00:08:30] I mean yes of course there were things certain aspects of the other life that had to be eliminated
[00:08:37] first before I could kind of like say that this is what I want to do.
[00:08:40] I think I think a lot of it is also down to you because I think in my free time when
[00:08:44] I was not doing anything and just being a bum you were like kind of getting why don't
[00:08:48] you get involved and stuff like that.
[00:08:49] So I think initially it was just a way to pass time really.
[00:08:53] So and I don't even know if it was like a hobby that time.
[00:08:56] I think it was actually just a way way to pass time.
[00:08:59] Yeah I think it was a way of feeling the time.
[00:09:00] Yeah I think it was just a bunch of happy people and it was fun to be around the people
[00:09:05] in that sense so yeah I think that's how it started off initially but I think it took
[00:09:10] me a couple of years before it felt like this is something I enjoy.
[00:09:14] Do you remember that moment where you kind of realized that this is something that perhaps
[00:09:19] you would want to pursue?
[00:09:20] I mean I think there was a phase perhaps I don't know if there was a moment but I think
[00:09:26] and I think that's very like even now the way we work and kind of like even now that
[00:09:32] we've been collaborating so much.
[00:09:33] I do feel like there's something about just being thrown into the deep end, that kind
[00:09:37] of almost kind of not brainwashing necessarily but almost kind of convinces you to make
[00:09:43] sure lean towards a certain side.
[00:09:44] So I think that's what happened with the Aikibiris and I think when like okay like rough
[00:09:48] tarofta happened where there was the first time I played like almost the protagonist part
[00:09:53] of whatever it was and I think there was something about perhaps I was enjoying the
[00:09:58] amount of work I was putting in but I think then suddenly just maybe the little bit of
[00:10:02] the validation that came with it later of being part of a fun play, something that was
[00:10:07] resonating with people, people were enjoying, people were watching and I think there was
[00:10:11] a shift there perhaps and I think then that followed by a couple of like more experiences
[00:10:18] and I think because of the kind of person I am and I think that's I mean I am quite sociable
[00:10:25] and sociable.
[00:10:26] So I think that also helped that it was something that was with people like it was something
[00:10:34] that it was a community and it was not like and then when I'd look back at me like had
[00:10:39] I been part of like had I been a part of the forensic world right now I'd be sitting
[00:10:42] in a lab alone like working on DNA samples, like so just the contrast of that was
[00:10:48] amazing because I think just having so many people and just the way people were functioning
[00:10:52] and kind of just seeing how why they're doing it, how they're doing it was very inspiring
[00:10:56] I think and I think that just yeah I think just the fact that I was I think a people's
[00:11:01] person was also very helpful in that because I think I was just happy to be surrounded by
[00:11:07] this and I think that that and I think that was very nascent but now like it's very
[00:11:12] evident that everything we do is collaborative and has to be for the people by the people
[00:11:17] of the people you know so I think that was lovely and I think just the energy is the madness
[00:11:22] all of it like the chaos it was organized chaos maybe not in that organization initially
[00:11:26] but yeah yeah so I think all of that all of those factors kind of helped decide.
[00:11:32] So I mean you know when we kind of started this whole podcast series I think one of the
[00:11:35] things that I wanted to steer clear from you know from was that I didn't want to get
[00:11:40] into stuff which was easily available on Google quite honestly like it was it was all
[00:11:44] of that and and I mean your body of work is massive and I'm only going to get into a
[00:11:52] couple of facets so that I don't want to go down that CV because that's another season
[00:11:57] in itself it's not an episode and yeah that's a whole bunch of master classes but so coming
[00:12:06] back to this whole legacy situation and I've actually never asked you this question and
[00:12:11] we talk about theater all the time and we talk about work all the time and I've actually
[00:12:15] never asked you that when you're kind of sitting where you are right now and if among all
[00:12:20] the other legacy you know the 23 years of A.K. various is your legacy objectively when
[00:12:26] you look back at the journey how do you feel about that very good simplistically very
[00:12:33] rich and the process I mean where it started and the what about so I'm not going to get
[00:12:40] into it so I believe that accidents are part of adventures but there is no sustenance with
[00:12:49] accidents alone because as I said that you can open a door and then probably go through
[00:12:55] only if you have the sustenance so they were lucky accidents there was some quirks of fate
[00:13:06] but the fact of the matter is that somewhere there was enough resources as it were to pull through
[00:13:17] and and peak sometimes at that level of quality and competence so when I look back I think one
[00:13:27] thing led to another they were ups and downs but there's extreme pride and I'm it's not about
[00:13:35] bias here whatever I'm hardly that guy to have attained this level of quality in the work you do
[00:13:47] is something everyone should be proud of and I mean my testimonial might not be enough but the
[00:13:52] world around is also feeling that and sometimes there are two pockets one of admiration and
[00:14:00] sometimes envy is a great litmus test and if there enough people envy your performance and
[00:14:07] calling it either nepotism elitist or whatever then that should be a compliment
[00:14:14] so a question which I know that perhaps you know you and I have had these conversations
[00:14:19] perhaps and I want to kind of include them in this conversation as well and it's very interesting
[00:14:23] because on the broadcast itself you know and when we've kind of spoken to people who say married
[00:14:27] who have partners and this conversation always comes up about you know personal and professional
[00:14:31] right like the whole thing is that when you're working together the thing is that you know what
[00:14:35] of the pros and cons and there was a lot of interesting discussion that came up that you know
[00:14:38] sometimes what happens is it's like one like echo chamber like it's basically your stuck in one rut
[00:14:43] and you're not you're taking your work back home and there's no switching off when you're from
[00:14:47] the same field sometimes it's better to you know have partners or companions who are from other fields
[00:14:52] because you know you have other things to talk about how do you feel about this because I mean
[00:14:57] we as a family are you know constantly working with each other and we are constantly working
[00:15:02] with each other and various this whole do the personal and professional kind of lines bother you
[00:15:09] at all do you feel the need for you know demarcation I mean I think we are I mean maybe initially yes
[00:15:19] maybe there was some like it was bothersome but I think now it's not at all I think we've
[00:15:24] all been to like there's something really beautiful about what's going on with all of us even
[00:15:29] when we are when we're working when we're not working I think it's amazing I think it's I mean
[00:15:34] yes there is a aspect of the fact that okay maybe our personal life also we are discussing a lot
[00:15:38] of the professional life but I also think I think that's also because we enjoy the profession so
[00:15:44] much we love the work so much that and then like you're saying it doesn't ever feel like work right
[00:15:49] what about you dad what did you feel about you know when it when you know like and and maybe
[00:15:54] it's interesting to kind of think of it from say maybe the point of view of say mom yeah or you know
[00:15:59] I have a wife who of course is part of the arts but she's also as I call it just but do we land
[00:16:03] up excluding other people is that is that something so and you know in the family setup
[00:16:08] what how do we maintain that balance you know all like for example like I used to say this at one
[00:16:12] part of time that sometimes when we were working together or even I were working together and we
[00:16:16] were living together at that point of time and we didn't have a great rehearsal together yeah
[00:16:21] yeah and that baggage would come back home so there was no real switch off and also as artists as the
[00:16:26] word we don't switch off right I mean like I was up at four yesterday in the morning thinking of
[00:16:31] something about a play I'm supposed to write and it was just because I was like okay this is I'm
[00:16:35] wired right now because I thought of something interesting so you're not switching off which is
[00:16:38] which has its downside so what do you feel about so very interesting here that I mean this to your
[00:16:44] mother's credit that she didn't resist being included right and her the environment in which I
[00:16:54] operated it was pretty much open to the right right and so a sense of belongingness
[00:17:03] empathizing and also to say okay let's just watch a play or just be somewhere in the creative
[00:17:12] process do costumes hands on and then when it came to films writing for film fair so I think
[00:17:20] it's again a lot about an open attitude which a member of the family in this case your mother
[00:17:27] can have and as he said you mentioned that he gets it from his mother so the sociable angle
[00:17:34] of you know making friends easily is a quality and so to that worked to some extent sure in balancing
[00:17:44] the equation as far as being in the same room with you to his concern I think those are
[00:17:48] formative years right right so in this mature thing that it's a room with any professional yeah
[00:17:57] yeah stop being a room with family members sure I guess it happens in any kind of yeah
[00:18:02] and vice versa because if I'm with another group and I only work with people I like
[00:18:08] then they actually elevate themselves in my perception to the role of a family right
[00:18:14] which is an extended family so yeah now so speaking of the mother and speaking of the formative
[00:18:21] years the two of you did a play called Tuesday's with Mori yeah and and and and and a good play if I
[00:18:26] may say so myself I happen to produce it but it was it was a quite wonderful product and you
[00:18:35] of course had an immense experience coming to play this part of Mori who eventually kind of
[00:18:41] becomes a mentor and we'll come to mentorship to the character played by Adhar who at that point
[00:18:48] of time was fairly green yes and and and definitely quite contrasting in terms of discipline you were
[00:18:56] there and and you were playing these parts and you were kind of working with each other and it was
[00:19:00] just you know you too and more what does that experience like in retrospect brilliant
[00:19:08] during the process I had to adapt a lot purely because of it's a two-hander essentially yes it is
[00:19:16] yes and unlike the text of the play where it was still amenable an equation between the mentor and
[00:19:25] the mentee here there were perception issues it was not about an attitude problem it was just
[00:19:32] different styles personality yeah and for me so I'm disciplined and punctual to a fault
[00:19:42] and that is not to say that he's indisciplined to a fault he tries but again it's it's a personality type
[00:19:51] that if those impediments of so-called differences had they not been there would my eventual sort of
[00:20:01] process could that have been better or not I don't think that's rhetoric yeah but in retrospect I
[00:20:10] think had that not happened and I might be so incidentally that there's a whole page in my book
[00:20:16] yes on mentoring which talks about this example of B Adha a play about mentorship yes with the
[00:20:26] Dinshad your wife doing the lights and you producing it and your mother directing it is in a sense
[00:20:33] precursor to what your recognition today as a KVS and Anchorage and other is sort of kind of led
[00:20:42] up to a small family business right it's a decade ago that in 2012 we did Bore and flash forward
[00:20:49] to small family business where a co-production of the A KVS happening with you two at the helm of
[00:20:55] and again with NCPN yes at the experiment yes now that for me is the magic of a journey
[00:21:03] how do you remember that process no actually I think that was a very especially in terms of
[00:21:11] with the parents I think that was a very big culmination point in terms of the whole professional
[00:21:17] personal conversation that we just have so yes so I do feel like professionally perhaps for me
[00:21:23] it was not my best work okay in hindsight if I was given an opportunity to do it like say now
[00:21:29] or a few years back I would have done it you're talking about the quality of your work
[00:21:33] and I would be better obviously on the process and just with him being the other person in front of
[00:21:38] you of course and and I think that was also like and I do believe that I don't have when it comes
[00:21:45] to acting and all I don't feel like there's no ego or there's no nothing like that I don't
[00:21:51] I don't I like to believe I don't have that but just the fact that when you you know someone would
[00:21:55] come up to you and be like you're really good but the other man in front of he's always going to
[00:22:00] be better because here and I'm like yeah 100% but just the fact that that conversation is being had
[00:22:09] I wish it didn't happen you know like even if it was just like okay great play man
[00:22:13] fuck it like it's cool like let's all get into the specific part like if everyone said what a
[00:22:17] two-hand order to hand I do feel like today if I was doing it with him maybe things would have
[00:22:22] been different in the professional aspect of it right in the performance aspect of it but I think
[00:22:27] what happened is when we were working through it there was a and I think again it was my early
[00:22:33] years so I think there was a bit of a are we crossing the line in terms of the they're also now in
[00:22:40] my workspace whereas also in my home space well as the material goes into quite life emits are
[00:22:46] the best hundred percent so I think the process but having said that I think the process helped
[00:22:52] improve our personal relationship I was gonna ask that that do you think that that for me personally
[00:22:56] did I did start seeing them as as peers as as as friends so I mean I think there was a bad phase like
[00:23:05] initially but once I think once the show started happening and stuff like that I think then
[00:23:10] that that was actually a very interesting turning point in a sense at least enough personal equations
[00:23:14] I think I felt much closer to them after that and when usually the more he was happening was this
[00:23:19] book that you wrote about mentorship on the radar at all not at all not at all so we could
[00:23:25] cross-parked an idea perhaps yes so talking about your book a little bit whether or not used
[00:23:33] with Mori had any kind of influence on it but about Mentor Morforses and about mentors and in
[00:23:39] that like there's a page about Tuesday Mori there's a fair amount that you've written about
[00:23:43] Pantitsa Tehrebube in that who is one of your mentors certainly in the field of theater and also
[00:23:50] a mentor to many it's also strange that as times move on the newer generations don't really know
[00:23:56] anything about him and his work and it's sad when we're discussing legacy that something like
[00:24:02] that is something that's kind of fading away my question to you what was special about Pantitsa
[00:24:09] why does he matter so much to people of that generation because without they realize it he would
[00:24:18] bring out the best in these people and the process was rigorous with the rewards was stunning
[00:24:27] so in retrospect he has this long sort of following of people with gratitude
[00:24:34] and I just had this workshop where of course a lot of interesting things came up but one of the
[00:24:47] things that sort of I realized now that is important is there are some people who have an instinct for
[00:24:55] truth for me that's the new line in terms of all workshops that we should have
[00:25:04] that don't feel inadequate if you're not getting to a point of expression where the truth is
[00:25:10] not being expressed because some people have the advantage of an instinct for truth
[00:25:16] adobe had that also an instinct for dynamics I mean without a second thought he would choreograph
[00:25:28] a block but the most brilliant pieces of theater and the reason for their brilliance was that you
[00:25:35] did know it was brilliant it was so organic and so real and helped the text and he was a man for
[00:25:43] the text help the text to such a great degree that is how his productions and his performers
[00:25:52] mattered when it came to delivering he was a rare breed indeed as a continuation of this question
[00:26:01] which is something I want to ask you particularly and then I want you to weigh in in a slightly more
[00:26:05] micro manner because I mean you've been doing theaters and forever more than four decades
[00:26:13] actually five more than five more than five decades here are facts right and you've been doing it
[00:26:19] if not six incidentally yeah my first play was the third standard yeah because they were on
[00:26:29] the Bombay theater scene five decades on the Bombay theater scene you've been around now for more
[00:26:38] than a decade so more than a decade so in a micro sense and in a macro sense so then what have
[00:26:43] you seen change in these decades in and and you've been an active participant and there are very few
[00:26:52] there is you and there is there's Naseer and Ratna and there is Sunil who's still active and
[00:26:57] you know chips of the old block who are still and adapting and doing very good work in that sense
[00:27:03] and and and you know staying relevant with all of that but in terms of the the the milieu the theater
[00:27:09] world where you started off say in a Chabildas kind of situation with Dubay and you of course
[00:27:15] spoke about how temperaments have had to change but the how's the theater scape changed
[00:27:21] actually not much right barring
[00:27:27] audiences show and the number of performances
[00:27:35] well they're more performances now yes because the venues have expanded that's again proportional to
[00:27:41] population sure so if you were getting 20 people at Prith we're getting a full house is no big deal
[00:27:49] right because is that suburb it's that shroud it's that sensibility is that level of literacy
[00:27:55] purely as a proportion of the population increase sure in urban bomb by Mumbai but the
[00:28:01] process is in the quality up pretty much similar so like Chabildas there is a poor theater somewhere
[00:28:08] space sure where people are doing work today when you do in the remote corner a production
[00:28:16] you know it's stand-emowned to an environment which is
[00:28:21] it's rigorous work but there is an audience to watch it and there's a following like Sunil you
[00:28:27] mentioned if caught a residency somewhere productions are happening now that is like Chabildas
[00:28:32] it's another is farm of pristine and beautiful but I'm saying in terms of work the effort the quality
[00:28:39] ranging from superb to mediocre to wannabe is it's all the same and how's the audience changed
[00:28:48] uh not just in size how's it changed in terms of I think sensibilities that
[00:28:56] also kind of work that is being done is in sync with the demographic so if there is
[00:29:02] more literacy more awareness technology has given you an insight into human behavior social media
[00:29:09] uh people are more educated the younger generation the millennials and the Gen Zs are different
[00:29:17] than a Gen X audience and there's stuff being catered to every demographic so in that sense
[00:29:23] as a growth but again in a larger absolute level is still about the population but uh correct me
[00:29:29] if I'm wrong but were the audience is harder to please back in the day no I don't think so
[00:29:34] in fact those who came to the theater came to be pleased and do you think that still exists
[00:29:39] or do you think it's almost unique it does in a different way in a far more community
[00:29:46] because the most embarrassed thing for me is that every show gets a standing ovation yes now that's
[00:29:54] a bad quality picture someone just did an article about that and yeah I believe I've read
[00:29:59] things it's closer home yeah uh but that's embarrassing and it ruins actors there are no
[00:30:06] standards left anymore a standing ovation is something pressure that happens when real magic happens
[00:30:13] it's good because everyone's getting encouraged I don't hold it against it but I'm saying when you're
[00:30:17] talking about so people like things easily now that's what that's what I think the easter I
[00:30:27] always felt that now they come to get you know come to be pleased and I wonder if they were more
[00:30:32] discerning back in the day but here here's here's the thing and then again is limited I mean you know
[00:30:38] Barathe theater I mean crowd pleases they were happening back then they're happening now so
[00:30:43] and the same quality the same stamina at the same dollars more than 30 shows and months yes all
[00:30:51] that is still the same but I'm speaking specifically of the world I came in so those who came to be
[00:30:56] pleased even they were discerning and disagreed that debate that would follow was part of the critique
[00:31:04] that was elevating that was that word with this 30 audience at least of the 40 that you're talking
[00:31:13] about and it it tapered off somewhere I think it's still there there's a huge uh so I did recently
[00:31:25] a talk for something called Bhasha Center right yes not very many people discerning some people
[00:31:33] did the caretaker recently so that was great um 1520 people and it was it was a sense of hope
[00:31:42] and the discussion was pretty much that but I've outgrown that I don't have the patience
[00:31:48] for that anymore but I can see them growing into a level of maturity that's and I hope they don't
[00:31:53] freeze there the problem with cerebral analysis of theater is that you remain just critics and
[00:32:00] analyzers you wrote converted as theater artists of practitioners to what matters to the audience how
[00:32:06] do you reach the playwright's material in the in the way it's meant to be reached and that for me
[00:32:14] is a gap and that is where I'm extremely cynical and skeptical forgive me for that
[00:32:19] what is your take on this from the time that you've come in uh in the last 15 years
[00:32:25] what's the hard state yeah I mean I think because initially I was a bit of an outsider I mean even though
[00:32:31] I know you all were running either the theater company was running and it was functional
[00:32:36] I do feel like there's some level of competitiveness that's gone out
[00:32:43] they have gone out within the theater groups right like within the theater community I think there is
[00:32:49] I mean I think it's still there but I don't think it's as prevalent as it used to be uh I think
[00:32:55] there is some I think one thing that has come up quite a bit is that that feudal structure
[00:32:59] the feudal structure yeah I think there's there's still more now collaboration happening there's
[00:33:04] more sense of community per se do you agree that is that do you think that to a certain extent
[00:33:11] I think in the arts world whether it's movies or theaters xenophobia is an extremely strong quality
[00:33:18] it can't go away whether it's happy competitive or not we don't know but it can't
[00:33:27] not exist no no but it could have yeah so again it's it's the it's the worlds
[00:33:33] that yeah yeah the familiar spaces what are the changes uh for me it's a no-brainer because
[00:33:41] I don't consider anyone operating today's competition right nice
[00:33:46] nice that's how that's how how to follow up yeah there's a promo short there you know here's
[00:33:53] a question who you what is what what was like back then what was was was the repeat really happening
[00:34:02] they were followers i41 was the repeat audience I feel like this also kind of changes from the like
[00:34:10] say Gujarati theater yeah or commercial theater like Bharat Dabulkar used to do as you know
[00:34:16] bottoms up in the grandson of there was a lot of repeat crowd for that which were right it was
[00:34:21] the most frivolous stuff it could have been no frivolous maybe a bad word but it was the most fun
[00:34:26] yes sure sure yeah right heart the learning stuff and I think that somewhere as English theater
[00:34:31] we are a minority obviously yeah and English Hindi theater in Bombay again is less than say maybe
[00:34:37] Marathi theater then Gujarati theater but Gujarati theater and I was talking to people who come on the show
[00:34:42] I was talking to Pratik Gandhi it was a night out I used to go on four hours people used to get their dinner
[00:34:47] and they would do once no it's ends up that's a it's a that was that was real enjoyment and commercial
[00:34:53] and somewhere while we talk about this about kind of being more accessible we are also a little bit
[00:34:58] rigid because you want to tell a story and we don't want you eating while you're watching it yeah
[00:35:02] we are not flexible there we don't want you to kind of be having Fafada while you're watching a
[00:35:06] play or asking us to do once more right if you say something in our show we get a bit of ended
[00:35:13] yeah like you know we're like no please let us tell our story the way we want to show culture
[00:35:16] sensibility and culture in the show also really the kind of say English language or Hindi
[00:35:23] and these kind of production that we do really are not a clear sort of representation
[00:35:33] of a larger theater world it's just still specific because yeah because so here here is
[00:35:43] a perception question this needle Simon yes how would you rate him one and his place so you begin with
[00:35:50] there and then there was a lot of needle Simon and stuff like that being done by Adi Barzwa yes in
[00:35:57] the south Bombay call it whatever group with people from ad agencies and very very high class talent
[00:36:05] like Ovid Arwal and so many I mean that's Shana's parents yes yes barjore and Ruby legend now
[00:36:14] is deal Simon frivolous that answer nice that answer is really what sums up everything that you know
[00:36:24] people want to discuss it yeah yeah that's a good point yeah yeah that ends that discussion
[00:36:33] but one quick thing before I'm going to move on I'm going to talk much just say
[00:36:41] one one I'm going to come to you ask you something soon one thing before I close this chapter
[00:36:46] one thing that I want to ask you is in the theater world that you are a part of your theater world
[00:36:54] our theater world that is kind of now you know integrated in that sense what is changed for the
[00:36:59] worst I have an answer but I want to know yours and I don't know if your time frame allows you
[00:37:04] to see something change for the worst but if it does then no no I mean if there is something
[00:37:10] that has good point to discuss I mean I think I'm in an okay mood today so I can't
[00:37:16] you can't think of worse it's all good everyone to each her own space yeah
[00:37:22] I think the sensibility of the youth yeah I mean yeah I think connected to I think the lack of
[00:37:29] rigor is something that I feel like rigor also those who not forget those who don't know
[00:37:35] history are condemned to repeat it that's pathetic okay from saying I mean okay mood that that
[00:37:44] when that that escalated past I'm sorry yes I am sorry no but I do kind of I do kind of see
[00:37:50] that there is and I don't mean it like again and this is I don't mean it as a negative thing at
[00:37:56] all but I think that you know there is a reduction in discipline and maybe that works for us
[00:38:05] right now it works for us right now but because of our lives being different because of the you
[00:38:11] know everything that but but you know it's a small thing like when I look at say actors like say
[00:38:18] you Benjamin Gillani or even you know others they have their scripts still like 50 shows
[00:38:24] like every day and like I mean you're working a actress now who the third should stop bringing it
[00:38:29] like you know just something as small as that you know is just something as just that the
[00:38:34] you know and and and and yeah I still carry it when I'm traveling yeah I'm saying that that I think
[00:38:40] the I have and this is not a plug and I promise it's not a plug but it's something that I've
[00:38:46] been wanting to talk to both of you about because also we've been involved with it particularly him
[00:38:51] so I want to talk a bit about Adhyam yes and and you've been apart from the inception of Adhyam
[00:38:56] you've acted in one adhyam play at least and and you've seen the family go through various
[00:39:02] Adhyam what do you feel about Adhyam and its contribution to the theatre scenario in in in in
[00:39:08] Bombay in Delhi in India people have found a voice
[00:39:13] the avenue to make that voice reach out more it's one of the biggest landmark
[00:39:26] movements in recent times in the theatre about none so you are institutionalized something
[00:39:33] that is not part of an institution nice there is no infrastructure they're just a gathering of
[00:39:41] huge talent as software and actually creating a body of multiple works over seasons which are now
[00:39:51] already history and I don't even know about tomorrow yes the pandemic but so here's the asset
[00:39:56] test about how well intended Adhyam is because of the pandemic there was a season that went
[00:40:04] purely virtual right we shot a same place yes that I directed earlier how to the how to the
[00:40:11] basketballs in an empty centre and rules and went online yes because it was a product they respected
[00:40:17] something that mattered and they wanted to be there for perpetuity not lose the link now for me
[00:40:26] that is perhaps what Adhyam represents there how and eventually I don't know where it goes
[00:40:34] there's seasons and there are seasons and there are products and sometimes and again there's a
[00:40:39] question of reach sure but whether they are 200 people watching an Adhyam play or 2000 and we've
[00:40:45] had both we've had recently an intimate production yes where to full house whatever but 200
[00:40:52] and then the first show of a hound got a full house a jibbiti this is a thousand people a thousand
[00:40:57] people under the gypsy booth that I was a full house I think that if I'm not mistaken I think
[00:41:04] Kaitra is Kaitra the only production of theirs that was sold out of all shows of Adhyam
[00:41:10] there you are all nine sure all nine that I was part of yeah no and also I think that you know
[00:41:16] and and there's one thing that's one thing that comes up and it's weird because our mothers
[00:41:19] involved in it first season of Adhyam had a play called Siddhu Zubapuju and she was in it and
[00:41:24] still running so in that sense when their detractors who are saying that oh wait you know it's a
[00:41:28] flash on the pan it's not because if you've got the goal yeah you're still running it and apparently
[00:41:32] that show still goes full yeah so I mean that's an Adhyam product that kind of so what what do
[00:41:38] you think about like what has as Adhyam made it more accessible to your friends to your people who
[00:41:43] I don't think like barring before that barring is a meta I don't think I'd seen anything of that scale
[00:41:49] scale okay yeah so I mean like to me it's like it's like the super bowl of theater right like it's
[00:41:55] like because of the way it's your world cover whatever the hell it is they're the hooding yeah
[00:41:59] it's also like you're kind of getting the I wouldn't I mean I don't want to say this because I think
[00:42:05] we've been involved in a fairer but it's almost like getting the crem de la crem off the
[00:42:10] world kind of to get involved in it like that was saying whether it's like like the performers the
[00:42:15] artists are all like whatever whether it's the actors the people are doing sound design light design
[00:42:20] so I think it's just it's it's at and I think it's bringing it all of that together and putting it
[00:42:26] on a bit of a pedestal which is important I think and making people audiences see that even more
[00:42:34] so than we would do that normally you know normally yeah I'm coming come in the eye I
[00:42:39] do make it so clear that it's not a plug and even though they're listening right now
[00:42:43] yeah they are talking they're always listening Adhyam is always listening with Adhyam is the big brother
[00:42:48] of theater but do you listen what can you do better this will be edited no but we should say they
[00:42:55] will have it and they'll provide Kaira now and actually projecting exactly what I said earlier
[00:43:01] and I said I'm maybe a cynic in my benchmarks I think are too high and I don't have the solution
[00:43:07] otherwise no no I know people in Adhyam well enough to advise them so right correct
[00:43:14] is the selection of content and I'm risking this because we have been in for a four of the six
[00:43:20] I fortunately yeah we have delivered so in that sense no no no no that's what they think too
[00:43:29] that's what the world things too I just to sort of digress again because we're not plugging but
[00:43:34] we are still talking Adhyam I'll let me talk about the F word someone saw the F word met me at a
[00:43:39] leadership conference in Delhi recently and the biggest compliment and you were talking about
[00:43:45] more in terms of what what are two handers right the biggest compliment I have got as an actor
[00:43:51] is not the obvious for F word that person came to me and said all four of you were brilliant
[00:43:59] that says a lot in a sense about what an actor or a lead player should be
[00:44:04] that the attention should never go to the character being paid by the lead person
[00:44:08] the play is the thing and considering he's giving me feedback over my play on a podcast
[00:44:12] I think personal professional is sorted how do that mean you want to do more again
[00:44:19] you want to you clearly do so there are multiple requests but I think the F word is my new
[00:44:26] worry yeah fair enough also Torell and Q Torell came up to me after the F word and Torell being
[00:44:35] Torell to say that thank you for this mentor lot to me in Torell's context this will get edited
[00:44:43] it's a compliment so anyway so Torell came up to me and we talked about Tespo as his you know
[00:44:52] I've seen you in waiting for Goddo and stuff like that and I've seen your work and it's great
[00:44:56] whatever but there are people just now with me in the from Tespo in the audience who haven't
[00:45:01] seen you at all and say yes so this is my body for them yeah yeah discover yeah no and I
[00:45:10] I see what I say and there is no solution to it and I'm sure even the Aadhyam gang is working on
[00:45:15] this selection process because you know but the thing is again pros and cons how democratic do you get
[00:45:20] how do you do any quality control it's it's there's no winning and so and and is it because
[00:45:28] those were only just a bit above mediocrity I chose it because we don't know the world around
[00:45:34] I don't want to comment like that but probably they are doing their best and that's the best
[00:45:38] that's available but I'm saying let's be optimistic yeah see based on these six seasons where
[00:45:45] are the lags and what can be enhanced and I think it's a constant learning it's objective we're
[00:45:52] never happy with all the 10 plays chosen from Meta for example even though everyone has applied
[00:45:56] but and I think that it's horrible to say this because we're involved in content creation but
[00:46:01] it is kind of the age of mediocrity unfortunately which seems to be getting the numbers you know
[00:46:07] but yeah that balance of course has to be found and I am now going to move into what is supposed
[00:46:12] to be a rapid fire section okay it's quick we are almost done and it's a slow burn I call it a
[00:46:19] slow burn because I'm not a rapid kind of guy okay let's start with something really easy
[00:46:24] what are your favorite performances of each other on stage let's stick to stage we won't go
[00:46:29] into the film space we'll talk about stage is your favorite better than Mari?
[00:46:34] I mean Mari was like too close like I mean you're sitting too close you can't judge that as an audience
[00:46:40] members so you think the effort is his best performance yeah I I think he's excellent in it
[00:46:44] I but I feel like I may have been more impacted by his performance of Green World in Kane Mutant
[00:46:51] court martial I mean I think I don't know yeah I know I know but that's something that's
[00:46:56] stayed with me very long and I guess for me effort becomes too close yeah it becomes like so
[00:47:01] that was like yeah I mean like Gordon all is also fun but I think like you just like there's no
[00:47:05] I think yeah yeah I think he devastated so many people that he has something special happened
[00:47:10] in the effort for sure absolutely what about your family? just jog by memory they made me three
[00:47:14] no I'm not doing that I'm not doing that so he doesn't have a problem I was pleased with this performance
[00:47:23] in the verdict that's a big one so really like there's evolution happening because your latest
[00:47:31] projects are your favorite projects so you're evolving as I'm pleased yeah no but that's good
[00:47:36] that's a good point that's a good performance yeah it's it's unexpected which was always special for me
[00:47:43] nice that's a good one that's a that's a good one and Indian production that you are not a part of
[00:47:50] and perhaps we are not a part of that blue you away can be from ever too many but I'm not part
[00:47:59] of directly or indirectly ideally I did Gashiram Kothwar whose production theater Academy
[00:48:06] which was directed by Jambar Patel and why why was that so special it was the first time I saw
[00:48:15] an Indian production make do so much to create multiple magical moments and just and where did he
[00:48:25] watch this I forget now could be on the point stage with Mohan Agaar's shape playing Nana
[00:48:37] just just also I was getting into this world of the ethnic why it's often Dandurga right so
[00:48:50] so I think that's the reason because for me he's up there not as close I mean he's up there I mean
[00:49:01] he's one of the top three people if I were to relate to the quality of work Vijay Tehnookar is up there
[00:49:12] that I had a personal equation with him and in a very subtle slighway he kept building my confidence
[00:49:20] is something so charitable so yeah Agaar Shiraam Tehnookar probably how are you
[00:49:26] as in I think again because it's close to home currently I'd like to say every brilliant thing
[00:49:34] just if you put on your like performance gaze even even in terms of like putting it together in
[00:49:40] terms of just the material I think in all aspects it's just I mean again I know it's not like
[00:49:47] scale and this but I think it's just it's fantastic in delivering what it's set out to deliver you know
[00:49:55] so and of course because I'm now working closely with the guy also no but I mean irrespective
[00:50:01] that but I think yeah I mean at least in the last five years that's something that like has
[00:50:06] stayed with me I mean even till now perhaps yeah absolutely in terms of everything like every
[00:50:11] brilliant thing for both of you your most fulfilling performance on stage need not be your best
[00:50:19] most fulfilling which take it any so the first one from each if you want but like so
[00:50:31] but in Bombay sure let's do that yeah sure otherwise it will go somewhere in history
[00:50:38] third standard no go to adulthood college just beyond that no but it doesn't mean
[00:50:46] you can say if it was fulfilling for some reason you should see yeah because you got 347 laughs
[00:50:53] 347 laughs what is this we're going to Molly as the miser which you didn't college
[00:51:00] at in jumpshade pool excel are they so that was a fulfilling part yeah because it's the first time
[00:51:05] I discovered what I could do yeah so that's good yeah and off-late God oh Kate butony
[00:51:14] be
[00:51:14] bori
[00:51:15] f1
[00:51:17] or bad
[00:51:19] nice couple with us so nice stuff what's your most fulfilling performance on stage I mean I'm just because
[00:51:26] I think I'm in love with the man and like love with all his work that he's doing like has done
[00:51:33] I would like to say behinding inspoken because I got to play a part in a martin magdonna
[00:51:40] text of like whatever clear character of yeah so I think that was it I mean it was it was a shame
[00:51:45] I might not have done justice to it but I think it was just this and then eventually find out
[00:51:50] that sam rockwell was being that bad when it happened but as a while you were doing it was yeah
[00:51:54] it was amazing because also I think he's one of my favorite like playwrights or whatever it is
[00:51:58] yeah wow and filmmaker's now so yeah I think spoken
[00:52:03] in the theater world not necessarily acting related it could be direction acting whatever what's
[00:52:07] the best advice you've received hey funnily I received it today nice from from mr. Bruce
[00:52:14] Guthrie or a direction is not about making people what do what you want but making them believe
[00:52:28] they are doing what you want they some they are doing not making they're doing what they want but
[00:52:34] what they want direction is not making people do what you want but making them believe that they're
[00:52:40] doing what they want what you are what you are making them believe that they're there yeah yeah oh
[00:52:45] that empathy okay nice and he's also in he it's not like he's he quoted someone else I forget who
[00:52:53] but he did as long as the best advice you received is advice you understood
[00:52:59] I think it's said I told him to work in that moment I wonder about you too many
[00:53:05] yeah I don't know early days early days I don't even remember who said it it's all the
[00:53:11] say the words don't say enjoy the last day I said it already no don't try too hard just trust
[00:53:19] nice nice and now the last actually you also like some good ones like the whole like just be
[00:53:26] kind of situation just be is not like this like a nice that's good no that's good don't act just be
[00:53:33] and the last ones actually for him since he hasn't said much in this
[00:53:38] so yes and much this is the last one because it's early days for you yet I think that you can do that
[00:53:43] you know you've been doing workshops on interpretation of text you've been working with
[00:53:47] kids who don't get enough they want my many more hours and you spoke about the youth
[00:53:55] and all of that what advice can you give to that youth that wants to kind of get into
[00:54:06] meaningful theater career this youth of today this disgusting generation
[00:54:12] it's not disgusting no no I am an optimist this is disgusting so that's me that's me that's after
[00:54:19] two seasons of mismatch so now but what what what what would be the advice you would give to someone
[00:54:24] who's coming into this now with all your years and watching all the transition that has happened
[00:54:29] and and and all the how how many words you go you do you bid so don't think you're here to get a job
[00:54:38] come here for the reason that you believe in the world in the world of theater
[00:54:47] right so then it's yeah come for the right reasons basically that was not so bad was it how was that
[00:54:56] no I don't think he's entertaining enough he doesn't have to be as it is no one watches it
[00:55:02] people watch you have you watch the 35,000 people have you watched Zafar's episode 35,000 times
[00:55:11] have you seen shithis 33,000 times someone else is doing it then maybe it's the adium people just
[00:55:17] maybe it's hard to disgusting you yeah maybe that's the one no but this again I'm not plugging
[00:55:23] as yet but this is damn good no because it's it's on it's in the in the archives now yeah it is
[00:55:29] and hopefully they'll give us another season so this should be for a hamburger exactly because as
[00:55:36] 35,000 is great and suppose some of it is youth then they are seeing all that happens
[00:55:42] no that's exactly my point so adium is actually archiving stuff which is because of what these guys
[00:55:48] are missing because of your advice some people will see this episode and cancel and flight to Bombay
[00:55:54] don't know they'll come they'll come they'll come they'll come looking for me only nice so thank you
[00:56:01] other and dad thank you doing this there was a lot of fun man yeah hi I'm Adhaar Khurana hi I'm Akash
[00:56:09] Khurana we had a wonderful time on unscripted with Akash Khurana thank you to adium please listen
[00:56:14] to the podcast on Spotify Apple Podcast or binge pause or wherever you listen to your broadcast
[00:56:20] and don't forget to follow adium on instagram and subscribe to the youtube channel thank you so much
[00:56:26] and with that we come to the end of the first season of unscripted with Akash Khurana we recorded
[00:56:32] 18 episodes in which 23 guests have come and shared with us the most interesting stories
[00:56:38] and wonderful insights you can watch these episodes on youtube or you can listen to them on
[00:56:43] Spotify Apple Podcasts binge pause or wherever else you listen to your broadcast and stay tuned
[00:56:50] hopefully we'll be back with more episodes soon