“The world doesn’t care about them”

[00:00:00] This week on The Recruitment Flex, Will My Dad Jump Off A Building? Canada's population

[00:00:06] booing more now than the boomer era. Is there a boys club in recruitment? Plus, those

[00:00:15] of the real world for young people, tear off with my dad and Shelley starts right now.

[00:00:28] Welcome to The Recruitment Flex with Serge and Shelley. I'm Serge. And I'm Shelley. And

[00:00:33] we talk all things recruitment starting right now.

[00:00:39] Bonjour and welcome to The Recruitment Flex. Shelley, have you ever bungee jumped in your

[00:00:44] life? No, I have not. And I don't think I ever would.

[00:00:49] Have you ever skydived? No, I have no idea why anybody would even want to do that.

[00:00:56] Like, it's a level of fear. Not fear, but I don't get it. Why would you want to do that?

[00:01:03] No, I agree with you. I would never jump off a plane with a parachute. I would never

[00:01:08] jump off a plane and parachute would be helpful or a top. I'm not afraid of heights

[00:01:12] until I'm at high heights. Then I'm suddenly afraid of heights. The reason I'm bringing this

[00:01:17] up, I don't know if you saw on LinkedIn, I got nominated to jump from, I guess it's like

[00:01:22] the Vegas tire, the Vegas tower and it's the longest free jump in the world. But

[00:01:31] you nominated you. So Matt from out higher, it's HR tech company based in Australia actually

[00:01:40] met them at the high roller pinball type of thing. We were the only ones there for a

[00:01:49] little while. So I got to know them well. And I don't know what I said, but then suddenly

[00:01:54] I got nominated and then I was going to nominate you till you told me there's no fucking way

[00:01:59] you would ever do that. So I'm not going to nominate you. I think I'm going to do it.

[00:02:03] I think so really. I'm like, hey, I have been really in the mantra. Just just do it.

[00:02:10] Right? I'm sure it's your morals report and I'll bring a change of underwear for you.

[00:02:14] Please do yes. I'm telling you, I am going to be so scared. But here's the choice. If I had

[00:02:21] to choice to jump off that building and I watch a video and it's very controlled coming down.

[00:02:26] So it seems less nerve-wracking or singing karaoke again. I will jump off the building.

[00:02:33] I'm with you on that. Someone got video of you and I trying to sing a Taylor Fong.

[00:02:39] There's video there. There is video out there. It was so bad. Oh my god.

[00:02:43] I have nightmares about that. That's one of the times that I'm like, oh, I'm just going to do it.

[00:02:49] Screw it. Right? Then deep regrets of doing it. So anyways, we're excited for Unleash coming up

[00:02:56] in May and the Unleash CEO Mark Coleman is going to appear on a podcast in the coming month as well

[00:03:03] to give everyone the insights of what is Unleash. So excited for it. I'm not sure I'm excited for Vegas

[00:03:10] again. It's a lot of Vegas, but we'll deal with it. It is. I agree.

[00:03:15] Shelley, do we want to jump into the news? Yes. Yes. Can I start the first one?

[00:03:22] Yeah, please do. I'm sure it's no surprise to anyone that lives in Canada.

[00:03:26] But Stats Canada just published the fact that the population growth in 2023

[00:03:32] is the highest since 1957. Realize that what's happening is this is the new boomers.

[00:03:40] But super cool. Canada's officially over 40 million. 40 million, 769,000 is our current population.

[00:03:49] And Alberta, our home province leads the way in the highest population growth in 2023.

[00:03:57] Alberta had 4.3%. So no surprises. What's your thoughts on this when it comes to the overall job

[00:04:05] market? Has it been positive? Is it negative? It's obviously answered a huge call because we're

[00:04:11] not hearing the same sort of cries about can hire anybody. What we are seeing is a higher number

[00:04:19] of applicants that may or may not be qualified, but that's nothing new. It's a recruiters job

[00:04:25] to put out a good job ad that will attract the right people. So well, I might have a controversial

[00:04:33] thought about this. So we all agree we need immigration for the country to be able to replace

[00:04:39] the roles. Obviously, we're not having as many babies as we did during the boomers generation.

[00:04:44] It's completely different than the boomers because this was a baby boom, right? And this is an

[00:04:49] immigration boom, which the reality is reality. We're just not having enough kids and we are growing

[00:04:55] older as a country. And we have limited amount of people coming through to work for. So we definitely

[00:05:01] need immigration. The flip side to it is the amount of immigration that we have done in the past five

[00:05:09] years will have repercussions. So like I just want to be clear on this immigration is great, but also

[00:05:15] control immigration and not overburdening the system with so many people coming up with no plan.

[00:05:23] We had zero plans. So what happens now in Canada, our kids won't be able to afford houses to give

[00:05:29] you an ID since 2005. So looking at all the G7 countries, we had a 207 percent increase in housing,

[00:05:39] right? Since 2015, we've had a 74 percent increase in housing pricing. If you compare it to the

[00:05:47] other G7 countries, including the US, they're around 20 to 25 percent. You bring in millions and

[00:05:55] we're talking what two million in the year, we have not kept up with housing supply that has

[00:06:00] caused a major challenge and has caused housing to just skyrocket where our kids will never be able

[00:06:06] to afford a house. So great that our population has grown where I'm upset is we didn't create a plan

[00:06:13] and people that are coming into the country to your point are taking a lot of jobs that need to be

[00:06:19] filled. So I think that's great, but the flip side to it is they're struggling to find employment.

[00:06:25] I don't know if you've seen the job fairs in Ontario with thousands of people lined up. Do we have

[00:06:30] the jobs that they want that they need? Is it still a challenge? Do we have the housing? These poor

[00:06:35] people are struggling finding housing. So I guess with every good things, there's many negative

[00:06:42] things and I think this was not an issue in immigration. It's just poor planning, poor government.

[00:06:47] It's almost embarrassing how bad we have mishandled this. Now we're pulling everything back, right? If

[00:06:53] you saw the announcement for immigration in the next couple of years, temporary workers, everything is

[00:06:58] dramatically reduced and then obviously what the change is with students, that's going to have a

[00:07:04] dramatic effect as well. It's going to help in the coming years for us to kind of stabilize

[00:07:09] anything to add to that? Do you agree? Am I wrong? Oh no, no, it's the facts, right? What I heard

[00:07:15] you say is less opinion and more just factual. There are these horrifying stories of new Canadians arriving

[00:07:23] and sitting in a cold gymnasium with children and that's the nightmare that we want to avoid. Nobody

[00:07:33] would intend to do that. But on the same token, showing up to a new country with no plan of where

[00:07:39] you're going to live, I don't know about you, Sird, but unless I'm fleeing a war zone,

[00:07:45] where the alternative is deaf. The other in terms of immigration where you've applied and you've

[00:07:51] been approved, that process is not done overnight, but to think that you're going to show up and

[00:07:58] not have a plan of where you're going to live. Refugees are a different story and I think as a

[00:08:03] society, we've done extremely well to help those that are fleeing certain deaf and the refugee

[00:08:11] program is very different than immigration where we're attracting people to come and work here

[00:08:16] because we have lots of work and we had a really interesting conversation with an immigration lawyer

[00:08:24] in Montreal. Yes. And I really want him on the show search because he's boots on the ground.

[00:08:31] This is not news stories, none of this is dramatized. This is real life. What's really happening?

[00:08:39] But more importantly, how do you fix it? What are the suggestions? It's always easy to throw

[00:08:45] darts, right? Yeah. So we'll have them on the show. I'm glad you brought that up. I have to follow

[00:08:50] true on that one. I want to jump into the next news item. Indeed, launches smart sourcing.

[00:08:57] Give you a little bit of the background behind it. So smart sourcing allows employers to source

[00:09:02] candidates from a large talent pool of nearly 300 million workers updated in the profile enhanced

[00:09:09] job seekers ability to showcase skills and preference for personalized job recommendations.

[00:09:14] Then there is an AI matching engine that provides instant candidate recommendations based on job

[00:09:20] requirements. And then there is a redesign indeed profile that offers over 40,000 skill options

[00:09:28] and AI suggestions for profile enhancement. Shelley, I don't know much about this. I just saw it.

[00:09:34] I saw a lot of indeed rep promoting this and I saw a couple of articles on it. I do not know

[00:09:40] how different it is from what they offer right now with their resume product, which has AI and

[00:09:47] does some recommendations. Is this different? What I'm seeing was that just beta in the past or

[00:09:53] yeah, I will say, hurrah because the indeed resume database search tool product really hadn't changed.

[00:10:03] I mean, I can't say this is a verified number but it seems to me at least in the last seven years

[00:10:10] great you bought a resume database subscription. You could go in build projects do searches when

[00:10:15] someone new came on you'd be notified but nothing really changed. So what did change is

[00:10:22] when you post a job directly on indeed and you put a budget on it, you had this option

[00:10:29] for what's called matched candidates. And it was first brought out limited in 2022. For example,

[00:10:36] how to client they posted housekeeper for BAMF. And you post your job, put your budget on there

[00:10:46] and then you had a limit up to 100 people you could invite to imply which is matching but you didn't

[00:10:53] have to do anything. So based on your job ad it would go into their database, tell you how recently

[00:11:01] active this job seeker was it would give you a match that their last three roles job title was

[00:11:08] housekeeper and you click a button and it invites them to apply. And you can track the fact that I

[00:11:17] invited these 50 people to apply and how many actually applied. So based on their recent seat,

[00:11:24] I don't know about you but I don't think LinkedIn has a tool like this. And so now with the new

[00:11:31] product, the resume database, I think it's a bargain because once you post your job or go in and do

[00:11:37] a search, it will suggest people for you and create an AI message. So you basically can look at

[00:11:46] the template of the message and say I want to jager up some ore not. So really I think it's

[00:11:51] closer to a LinkedIn recruiter seat. Only it's 200 bucks a month like seriously. For 200 bucks

[00:11:58] a month, you can go really wrong. That's the pricing right? The flip side to it. There's a couple

[00:12:05] things that concern me. It's based on that matching and those types of recommendations that I've received

[00:12:11] like in the past little while. It's been so bad that I'm like have they improved it in the last

[00:12:17] couple of months. There's no way that the response rates that are coming from these are high because

[00:12:23] this is really, really hard. I don't think we realize how hard it is because if you look at Indeed,

[00:12:31] say LinkedIn, Glassdoor, Zit Recruit or any major job boards, they've all had major difficulties in

[00:12:38] doing that matching and that recommendation engine has been weak. I don't think anyone has really

[00:12:44] stood out of the crowd of doing that well. So maybe this is it and if it is, it's going to be a

[00:12:50] huge boon for Indeed. If it's not, it's going to fade away like most of the Indeed products that they

[00:12:57] try out not most but a lot of them right? They test a lot of stuff and a lot of stuff doesn't make it

[00:13:02] true. So we will see what happens in the next little while. In other news, Shelley, you remember

[00:13:09] Keeter Lanson who we interviewed at HR Tech really loved the guy. I thought he was great like

[00:13:15] really straight forward, really good articulate industry expertise. He just got the announcement

[00:13:21] a day ago that employee who is the owner of lever jazz, job-vite, next. So a bunch of companies

[00:13:29] they've named a new CEO and his name is Steve Cox. So Steve has been in senior leadership roles

[00:13:37] for almost 25 years. He's got a lot experience with high-grote organizations, but he has never been

[00:13:43] in the HR Tech Space Shelley. So do you think you need to be in this space to be successful? What's

[00:13:50] your thoughts on this new appointment? As a CEO of course we believe that you need industry experience.

[00:13:59] Yeah. We're a little biased sometimes. We are rather biased. However, industry experience doesn't

[00:14:06] necessarily qualify you to be a good CEO. You know, you stepping back and saying like what constitutes

[00:14:14] great leadership is not your industry experience. And sometimes bringing in someone who knows nothing

[00:14:22] about the industry, you got to give them a break, give six months to a year to understand the industry.

[00:14:29] They're also going to bring a perspective that may be the game changer. Yeah.

[00:14:35] Especially a company like employee, they're super complex. We know they're complex because even as

[00:14:42] customers trying to figure out am I better off with a lever solution or lever, right? Lever is it

[00:14:49] lever lever? I don't know, I forget every time we settled that already at any rate or am I a job-vite

[00:14:56] customer? So those decisions are really tough because we've got a lot of affinity with those brands.

[00:15:02] My assumption is the board would look at someone like Steve and we'll get a chance to interview him,

[00:15:07] I know we will as someone who's going to bring in a fresh set of eyes because there's way too much

[00:15:15] emotion I think attached to all these different brands. Because even as an industry we've often

[00:15:22] wondered how's this going to work? Yeah. So you made some very good points and especially where

[00:15:29] employee is, there might be an opportunity for a different perspective that is not thinking of how

[00:15:35] all of us think in this industry they might have some solutions to what's going on because this is

[00:15:40] my personal thoughts on this. I'm a big fan of employee but here's the challenge. I think all

[00:15:48] standalone ATS out there are indeed trouble. I think we're seeing definitely a different level of

[00:15:55] sophistication coming out with new platforms that do a whole lot more and know we've talked about

[00:16:00] talent intelligence platforms but the days of just a standalone ATS that just basically is a digital

[00:16:08] filing cabinet and I love job-vite, jazz is a good product, lever is a good product and they do it

[00:16:14] really well and there's been innovation. But I think the market is trending away from those ATS.

[00:16:21] On the enterprise side those ATS don't really stand a chance against a workday, UKG,

[00:16:25] Zorkel, recruiting cloud even though they're horrible. This is where the eightfold

[00:16:30] and phenoms can be a guess what do you call that a layover? Overlay overlay. Layover.

[00:16:38] It's your French. Exactly. They can be used as an overlay, right?

[00:16:43] I don't know. What's your feelings on ATS right now? I just feel it's like a dying business.

[00:16:49] Wow, you've really got me thinking. Honestly, like just listening to you really got me thinking

[00:16:55] when I look around how many TA leaders have taken the initiative to really look at standalone

[00:17:06] products. You've got to be really mad at your workday solution or if I made your

[00:17:12] Ultipro solution too, you've got to be really mad to look at a standalone product and you've also

[00:17:20] got to have almost like a suit of armor on because you're going to be hit with the CIO

[00:17:28] grilling you on no no we need products that are all from the same vendor it's

[00:17:32] uniformity of data and you've got to really know your stuff. Yes. And there's good reason

[00:17:40] there's good logic on both sides of the equation. There's still a business, right? And I'm not

[00:17:45] saying it's going to disappear because there's a lot of SMBs but I'm seeing SMBs going for a bamboo

[00:17:51] instead of a standalone ATS even though the ATS is not as strong, right? If there was two business

[00:17:57] that I would not start today, I think an ATS or a job board would be the two that I'd be like

[00:18:04] I don't know if I'd start that business. Not saying they're not viable sustainable long-term

[00:18:08] business that can do really. But just sorry yeah yeah I hear you. Start up like because we've got

[00:18:12] players so you think about Visier there's so many cool technology platforms that give you a lot

[00:18:17] more. So I guess we'll see I think this is why they brought in a new CEO that's like with a digital

[00:18:24] background to see okay where do we go from here? Stand alone I'm not sure but I guess we'll see

[00:18:29] but anyways aside from that if employees listening we are big fans right we're just putting a question

[00:18:36] out there and I'm sure you made the right choice with Steve and Steve please come on the show

[00:18:41] we want to talk to you about this. Shelley do we want to jump oh actually before we jump I saw

[00:18:46] a message from Joel Lolgy talking about this new video button on LinkedIn and the first thing I did

[00:18:53] was open my app and there's no button on my LinkedIn for video so I'm like what is this?

[00:18:59] Basically LinkedIn is confirmed that they are testing a new short-form video feed similar

[00:19:05] to what TikTok has. So right now it isn't beta it's an early testing only super users like a Joel

[00:19:11] Lolgy would have access to it because I haven't seen really anyone else talk about it.

[00:19:16] I think this is interesting because video is becoming very dominant especially short-form video

[00:19:22] and we're seeing some of the influencers in this industry really take their talents to TikTok

[00:19:28] because they can grow an audience a whole lot quicker you don't need an amount of followers with

[00:19:33] TikTok if you can have one go viral and suddenly you've got millions of followers. Do you think

[00:19:39] this is a good idea by LinkedIn? Can you just explain to me how this is any different than

[00:19:47] uploading any video like even if you've got something that you did on say

[00:19:54] Instagram Reels or YouTube shorts like how is this any different other than maybe now

[00:20:01] you're forced to use their platform I don't understand what's the big innovation here at all.

[00:20:07] Very innovative because it's basically copying what's already been done there's a basic my understanding

[00:20:14] is there's a video button right when I press on the video it's basically a feed of LinkedIn

[00:20:19] creators that their video is similar to and I'm making assumptions on TikTok you can

[00:20:27] copy your video over to Reels if you want to you download it then you bring it then

[00:20:31] I'm assuming you're going to be able to do something similar but like anything else original content

[00:20:37] on LinkedIn is probably going to do better. So that's my understanding it's basically a

[00:20:42] LinkedIn TikTok feed button that you press it similar as you press Reels. I don't know if it's

[00:20:48] going to be only people you follow or it's like an algorithm like TikTok which I'd be a big fan

[00:20:54] if they did that instead of just the people you follow. So we will see we will make a prediction

[00:21:00] search. Yeah, please do. I think HR is going to ban everybody from using LinkedIn because if

[00:21:09] they're doing this TikTok thing then somehow there's just another way to kill a few hours of your work day

[00:21:18] like productivity just dropped if you're going to sit there and watch TikTok ish videos on LinkedIn

[00:21:25] but because it's LinkedIn you're allowed to watch it at work. I mean they're kind of late to the game

[00:21:31] honestly I don't see it going anywhere because if I'm going to do content creation

[00:21:37] I'm going to do it in one place and share it on all different platforms.

[00:21:43] Yeah, it's different audience. In a lot of ways so I would not do the same content for Facebook that

[00:21:48] I do for LinkedIn they're different contents. Your prediction is probably right so your prediction

[00:21:54] this will probably fail. But not your prediction that HR will ban it because if you think about

[00:21:59] how many actual people post on LinkedIn and we think it's a lot of people it's not it's very tiny

[00:22:05] right and it's still going to be tiny the amount of people that actually do this. I think there's

[00:22:09] potential value anytime that you copy something that is almost exactly the same it's probably not

[00:22:16] going to work out but I'm willing to see I'm willing to test it out. I watch TikTok because it's

[00:22:22] highly entertaining and there's a variety of things. I'm not going to go in LinkedIn and get

[00:22:28] some motivational quotes or whether to fuck about the time they hired a homeless person on the side

[00:22:34] of the street and he became their best person. Yeah, yeah you know those stories. I do. All right,

[00:22:41] Shelley let's jump into the tip of the week. Hey your tip of the week is brought to you by Plum.

[00:22:46] Plum knows that when people flourish businesses thrive using science-backed insights Plum aligns

[00:22:53] human potential with job needs allowing you to build high performing teams from a single platform

[00:22:59] ideal for improving hiring choices identifying future leaders and offering personalized career advice.

[00:23:07] Plum supports the entire employee journey from higher to retire. Discover more at plum.io

[00:23:15] So my tip of the week is about interview questions and I have this belief that

[00:23:23] the simpler the question, the more effective it is. So I want to share with the audience one of my

[00:23:30] favorite interview questions. So what I'm trying to assess is whether or not this candidate has

[00:23:38] big category. It's just call it business acumen. And so I simply ask the candidate how did the company

[00:23:48] that you work for last, how did they make money? You would be amazed at how many people do not understand

[00:23:56] how the company that they're working for actually makes money. So that's my tip of the week is

[00:24:03] giving you the best interview question if you're looking to figure out if they have business acumen.

[00:24:08] I love that question when you sent me the guy last night and I was reading it. It's like oh

[00:24:14] that's a great question. Kudos I love it. I am going to use that one. Okay.

[00:24:21] Shelley let's jump into the recruiting insights and it's brought to you by our friends at Metova.

[00:24:28] Shelley are you tired of the same old outsourcing woes? Well say hello to near shoring

[00:24:34] it's like outsourcing but closer and it won't make you pull your hair out.

[00:24:38] Picture this top notch IT talent from Latin America. Many Latin American IT professionals have

[00:24:45] strong English language skills and even live in the same time zone so no more midnight conference calls

[00:24:51] hallelujah plus Latin America's growing tech ecosystem strong educational institutions and a pool

[00:24:59] of skilled IT professionals make it the perfect region for recruiting talent. I have the perfect

[00:25:05] company that does this and company's name is Metova. They have local experts who handle everything

[00:25:11] from recruiting to HR support. So why settle for the same old outsourcing blues when you can have

[00:25:19] the near shoring party with Metova? Look them up at metova.com and let's get the fiesta started.

[00:25:27] Shelley do you want to jump on the first one? Yes I do because this is an article from the global

[00:25:34] recruiter.com most of what's posted on there is UK and Europe based, a little bit of North America

[00:25:41] but you know it really is global and so there was an article that the sentiment was the feeling

[00:25:49] that recruitment is still very much the a boys club and I'm like say more about that.

[00:25:58] So it was a belief that to get a job in recruitment meant that you usually were referred in

[00:26:08] and it's mostly meant which is really odd because that's not the feeling I've ever had

[00:26:16] and I've been at it let's just say more than 20 years but my sense is that it was done from

[00:26:24] maybe the staffing industry. Yeah versus HR, HR is very female dominated we know that we have

[00:26:32] the numbers we have the receipts right here 72.8% of all human resources people are

[00:26:40] you know it's human resource recruiters. These are HR recruiters so what led me to conclude is

[00:26:46] that this must be a staffing industry. It means staffing industries typically 100% commission

[00:26:55] and stereotyping but men may be a little more okay with the risk.

[00:27:02] Yes so to your point this was a survey that was done to staffing professionals which makes

[00:27:09] a little bit more sense then I'm like let me think about my experience because I worked in staffing

[00:27:14] and I work with a lot of recruiters and my team I was the only dude but then I think about all

[00:27:21] the staffing folks that I dealt with when I was a TA role the majority of them were women and I'm like

[00:27:28] but did I do that on purpose too because that might be just the ones that I'm taking to meetings

[00:27:34] in the call so that might be not quite biased if I think about it it'd be real about it so yeah

[00:27:42] there's a probably good chance that I dealt only with women because I chose to but then I was looking at

[00:27:49] yeah exactly one of the things that I was looking at so this survey was done with 11,000

[00:27:57] LinkedIn followers that participated in the poll 42% indicated that the Boys Club perception persist

[00:28:05] then I'm like okay how many women took this survey was it 40% because that might be just a

[00:28:12] perception right okay in their firm they're working with mostly men the other factor to an

[00:28:18] old fairness is even to this date there's a great inequality of leaders that are men and women

[00:28:26] in our space boat on the internal and in staffing firms a lot of time you'll have a guy managing

[00:28:34] mostly a team of women I don't know why it happens that way but it's been the case in my experience

[00:28:39] but the data is real like it is not a Boys Club 73% of recruiters are female.

[00:28:48] Are recruiters different than the staffing industry? Staffing I tried to get the data and I could

[00:28:55] not get a breakdown of it we will see Shelley I want to move on to the next recruiting insight

[00:29:01] and this one was something that I was a little surprised to read so our friend I like to call

[00:29:07] my friend any billionaire like to call him my friend so Mark Zuckerberg who is the CEO of Metab

[00:29:14] is personally emailing Google employees to recruit AI talent.

[00:29:21] That might not seem shocking to anyone but it's a little shocking to me reading the history of

[00:29:28] the dot com boom and the story of Steve Jobs and Bill Gates and how they took poaching so seriously

[00:29:37] and there is a bunch of Steve Jobs emails printed out there when people were trying to poach and he

[00:29:42] would approach or see it was like so you tell me we can poach each other because if you do the gates

[00:29:47] are open watch out and that scared a lot of people right and when you have Steve Jobs coming and

[00:29:53] be like I'm going to personally recruit your people if you don't stop doing this I think put

[00:29:57] the halt to everything but I don't think Mark cares I think the talent in AI there is so much

[00:30:03] scarcity that they're doing whatever they need because if you look at where the dollars and the

[00:30:09] massive investment dollars are going to the companies that can actually build these AI tools

[00:30:15] and obviously there's a race for that talent whoever's getting the talent is getting the dollars

[00:30:21] if you are a small player in the AI space and getting that top talent it's almost impossible

[00:30:27] because you do not have the capacity you don't have the chips which is the biggest competitive advantage

[00:30:33] of the open AI, the Microsoft, the Google, the Meta's Apple, Amazon are in such a huge advantage

[00:30:41] because they actually have the computing power to be able to track that talent. What was your take

[00:30:46] here surprise by Shelley? I am because as long as I've been in recruiting which is a while

[00:30:53] if you're going to start a war you better be prepared because it will happen and the

[00:31:02] ebb and flow of people versus mind your own backyard there are so many smart people that already

[00:31:09] work in Zuckerberg. If you mean to tell me that it's impossible to retrain these people

[00:31:14] he just let a bunch of people go is it easier or is it can't be easier? Do you know what I mean to

[00:31:23] just start poaching people from your biggest competitor. If it wasn't easier he wouldn't be doing

[00:31:30] it and it goes to the conversation that we had as far as like the banks laying off thousands

[00:31:35] of people then rehiring for the skillset they need this knowledge skill set that you can get in a

[00:31:41] year right? Like these are people that have been working in this for potentially decades and I know

[00:31:47] AI in our world as far as a consumer known type of thing has been the last couple of years

[00:31:54] but man there's been people working on large language models and AI in general for decades

[00:31:59] and I think that's probably the experience and knowledge they need. I agree with you but it's got to

[00:32:06] be easier to go recruit them than train retraining their people that have internally. I'm going to

[00:32:12] make that assumption. It's got it why would they do it right? Like to your point why wouldn't

[00:32:17] they retrain people? It's interesting. Yeah. I don't think smart move. I think it's probably smart

[00:32:24] because I think one of the things that he's doing here too with the layoffs and looking to bring

[00:32:29] in that talent he's trying to increase his talent density which is all the tech companies especially

[00:32:34] when it comes to software AI. Like one really skill one is the equivalent of three to four hundred

[00:32:41] is there's such a huge disparity between a great one and a mediocre one. But Shelley on that note

[00:32:47] talking about mediocre how about you jump into the next recruiting insight?

[00:32:52] You just cringed when you saw this right and let me set this up just a little in terms of why I

[00:32:57] want to talk about this. So the article was in personnel today.com and I love that. I want to buy

[00:33:05] that domain personnel. I want to bring the next personnel department. The 1970s called they want

[00:33:12] their plaque back. I think it's coming back. What's old is new? Okay. So again this article starts

[00:33:19] off with the biggest lie to the industry at large is that employers are using some sort of software

[00:33:29] to sift through applications that are rejecting you. So part of this statement is true but it

[00:33:35] really ticked me off because it's so misleading. It says 90% of employers are using automated

[00:33:42] tracking software. That is true. 90% employers do use an applicant tracking system of some sort

[00:33:50] but they're saying that 90% of employers use it to sift through applications even though most

[00:33:57] acknowledge that some of these systems vetted out qualified candidates. Okay back up the bus here.

[00:34:05] 90% of employers using applicant tracking systems nobody can ever name a name here

[00:34:11] of what applicant tracking system has the sophistication to sift through the resumes for you.

[00:34:18] They're knock out questions or they make you fill in 11 screens of answering questions but that

[00:34:24] is not the system knocking anybody out. It just really ticks me off because it's not true and it

[00:34:32] leaves the public and even most HR people who don't recruit on a daily basis or even know their

[00:34:40] applicant tracking system very well. It leaves them with this impression that there's some

[00:34:45] magic robot in the background sifting through resumes. Can't you just see it? Search with their

[00:34:50] little electronic arms. The article then goes on to talk about the fact that young people, those

[00:34:55] that are looking for maybe their first or second job in the working world are finding that

[00:35:03] the automation of recruitment has become humiliating and alienating for young people.

[00:35:11] I can see that one way video interviews are very alienating if you ask me, you know I'm not a fan.

[00:35:19] Using purely technology to do the screening for you is interesting because I'm hearing the opposite

[00:35:27] that most people feel even if it's a chatbot, I'd rather have an answer than never know.

[00:35:34] So what I thought was interesting is they're feeling that it's humiliating and alienating only

[00:35:39] because they've never experienced anything else. If you are mid-career and you were the one who sent in

[00:35:48] 50 applications and was ghosted on 49 of them, this is a much better experience. They're saying it's

[00:35:56] terrible but they got nothing to compare it to. It's so funny because this always comes up when

[00:36:02] it comes to the ATS and the ATS sifting through resumes and ranking. And that is happening. So

[00:36:09] it is happening in a very small scale right almost nonexistent even to this current date

[00:36:16] but in saying all of that reading this article, Shelley, I was just like, shut up.

[00:36:23] A couple things that really annoyed me. So most jobs seekers were exposed to a process that

[00:36:29] taught them that the world doesn't care about them and like no shit the world doesn't care about you.

[00:36:37] Have you not realized that? Like you are not the center of the universe. People care about themselves

[00:36:45] so welcome to reality first part. And then oh this just blew me away.

[00:36:52] After months of searching before they even started, it's the most dehumanizing process I ever

[00:36:58] encountered and I once worked in a call center. I once worked in a call center. They chose to put

[00:37:05] the article I know. Wow. I'll tell you. I moved to a new city. I had trouble finding a job. I had

[00:37:12] tons of experience with a senior leader where I was. Couldn't find a job. You know what I did?

[00:37:17] I worked at a call center and I became really good at that job. Well, actually no, I'm lying there.

[00:37:22] I wasn't that good but I did it and I did it at the best of my abilities. Is it humiliating?

[00:37:28] No, not at all. You know what's humiliating? Not being able to pay your bills. That's like

[00:37:33] really tough. But going and saying it's like I worked in a call center, I thought those were the types

[00:37:41] of jobs you get after college. Where have we set the expectation with the younger generation that

[00:37:47] yeah, you're going to have to do jobs that you're not going to like. You're marketing degree. Guess what?

[00:37:51] There's a million other people that got their marketing degrees. Yeah, you might not become the

[00:37:55] CMO first week. Putting that aside, Shelley and I'll close it off with this. The generation that's

[00:38:02] going through this has never really gone through a recession. The job market has always been hot.

[00:38:07] They've had the upper hand and unfortunately that's not the case anymore. So I feel for them in a

[00:38:13] way, but the flip side to it is how do you differentiate yourself? How do you do things that are going

[00:38:20] to put you in a different bucket when it comes to people they want to interview and hire? How do you

[00:38:25] make those skills better? And that's on you, right? But you think about what would be so bad to go

[00:38:31] work in a call center, kill it become the manager then eventually become the operations manager.

[00:38:37] Then the VP then you go VP at another company because you have that experience.

[00:38:42] You're not getting a director, you're not getting a manager role, you're not getting a VP role straight

[00:38:47] out of the college. Suck it up, buttercup, right? Stop complaining about dehumanizing and I get it.

[00:38:53] Yeah, you're applying for jobs. You don't hear anything back but you know what? That's reality.

[00:38:58] And that note, that's all I have to say, Shelley, what's if you want to add that or am I just being like

[00:39:03] a cranky old man? No, I think we're saying essentially the same thing. I'm saying they've got

[00:39:09] nothing to compare it to. Yeah. Even if you have been automatically rejected, chances are you weren't

[00:39:17] qualified right? It's not chances are is you weren't qualified. You weren't yeah, you are being

[00:39:23] rejected because you weren't qualified and even if it's your perception that it's a piece of software

[00:39:29] and they cite the Harvard study, I'm not disagreeing search. I think there is a reality that you're

[00:39:36] not qualified for most of the jobs you're applying for. And yes, it's frustrating. And I know you believe

[00:39:43] in your head, well anybody can do that job. And I think it was solidified by the quote that they

[00:39:48] decided to use of an I've worked in a call center. Hold on a minute, it actually takes a lot of

[00:39:54] skill. That for me was the nail in the coffin. On that note, Shelley, another fun episode of

[00:40:02] the recruitment flex. We've got a couple of events coming up quickly. So Tatek in June,

[00:40:09] unleash in May, then we've got a fun plum event coming up as well. And if you want to book us

[00:40:17] for anything, reach out to me personally and I will make it happen. Shelley on that note,

[00:40:23] enjoy your mini vacation because you'll be away for a couple of weeks, right? One week.

[00:40:29] Okay, I want you to be away. Thank you so much. Thank you, Arvah.

[00:40:43] Shelley, let's face it, taxing candidates is the easiest way to hire quicker today.

[00:40:49] But your cell phone doesn't connect to your ATS. You're sharing your personal number with

[00:40:53] strangers. That's pretty scary, right? Shelley and it's not even legally compliant.

[00:40:59] This is where our friends at RecTex come in. They've created simple yet powerful text recruiting

[00:41:04] software that works with your ATS plus it's designed by recruiters for recruiters. So you know

[00:41:11] it works to learn more and book a demo, visit www.rectxt.com.

[00:41:20] Mention the recruitment flex and get 10% off annual plans.