Hourly Worker Hiring w/Cameron Laker
The Recruitment FlexJanuary 23, 202400:39:24

Hourly Worker Hiring w/Cameron Laker

The Recruitment Flex welcomes Cameron Laker CEO at MindField. If you think RPO is just rent-a-recruiter, prepare to be blown away by what Cameron has built, right here in Canada. 12,000 jobs filled in 2023, makes us dizzy just thinking about how to pull that off. He shares how he did it and you can as well. Cameron openly shares his POV on HR tech and hints at some of the NON-industry thinking behind their incredible success. Fears and reality of the hourly worker in Canada. 2024 looks to be the year of the RPO
Hourly Worker Hiring w/Cameron Laker

Hourly Worker Hiring w/Cameron Laker

The Recruitment Flex welcomes Cameron Laker CEO at MindField.


  • If you think RPO is just rent-a-recruiter, prepare to be blown away by what Cameron has built, right here in Canada. 


  • 12,000 jobs filled in 2023, makes us dizzy just thinking about how to pull that off. He shares how he did it and you can as well.


  • Cameron openly shares his POV on HR tech and hints at some of the NON-industry thinking behind their incredible success. 


  • Fears and reality of the hourly worker in Canada.


  • 2024 looks to be the year of the RPO


[00:00.000 --> 00:14.000] Welcome to the Recruitment Flex with Serge and Shelly, I'm Serge. And I'm Shelly and we talk all things recruitment starting right now. [00:17.000 --> 00:27.000] Bonjour and welcome to the Recruitment Flex Shelly. I'm always excited when we have a fellow Canadian on the panel, so please do the introduction for us. [00:27.000 --> 00:39.000] Absolutely. It is so nice to feature Canadian companies. And so today we have joining us, Cameron Laker, who is the co-founder and CEO of Mindfield. Welcome to the show, Cameron. [00:40.000 --> 00:42.000] Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it. [00:43.000 --> 00:50.000] But a kick things off, could you give our audience a bit of a bio about you, Cameron, and just a brief overview of what Mindfield does? [00:50.000 --> 01:02.000] Yeah, you got it. Let's see. The key step is I'm happily married and we've got a four and a half year old daughter and we live in Kelowna, BC. We actually moved here during the pandemic from Vancouver and ultimately took the business. [01:02.000 --> 01:09.000] Mindfield completely remote during that period of time. But my background, I've been in this RPO space for 18 years, which is crazy to say. [01:10.000 --> 01:16.000] I'm 44, so almost half of my life has been spent with those three letters involved in pretty much my day to day. [01:17.000 --> 01:30.000] My experience with RPO has been an awesome one. Ultimately, my day-to-day job is driving Mindfield and the last few years have gotten pretty active in investing in some other businesses, including a pool construction company that I'm a partner in that I never would have guessed in a million years I would have gotten into. [01:31.000 --> 01:41.000] So we're one of the leading pool construction companies here in the Okanagan that got involved in investing in a few other businesses that, interestingly, I pull things from the world of recruiting. [01:41.000 --> 01:45.000] Like you'd be surprised on what you can learn about recruiting when you have a pool construction company. [01:45.000 --> 01:50.000] So my background is getting more diverse. Really, the key area that I focus in on is on RPO. [01:50.000 --> 01:58.000] And Mindfield, really what we are is we are a recruitment process outsourcing company for small, medium, and large hourly employers. [01:58.000 --> 02:02.000] We actually provide that support to really big companies in small. So what does that mean? [02:02.000 --> 02:16.000] I always get asked, what does Mindfield do? And I think maybe the best way to look at it is our solutions are for TA and HR folk who think it's time for their frontline hiring managers to stop being recruiters. [02:17.000 --> 02:29.000] And what they also typically want is they realize that the wild west of letting the managers hire who they hire when they walk in the store through referrals is actually a recipe for high turnover and actually workforce performance issues. [02:29.000 --> 02:37.000] So a big part of it is we work with TA and HR leaders who don't want their managers doing all the recruitment anymore because they aren't good at it. [02:37.000 --> 02:42.000] They're actually really bad at it, typically. They're fantastic people, but they're just not trained to be recruiters. [02:42.000 --> 02:51.000] And an organization that wants to centralize, right? So they believe in that center of excellence model. They believe in centralizing key functions can really move the needle. [02:51.000 --> 02:57.000] And ultimately, when a client decides to work with us, we're typically lowering their time to hire in half a lot of the time. [02:57.000 --> 03:02.000] We're going around 10 to 14 days on full cycle time to hire and a huge cost savings. [03:02.000 --> 03:09.000] So when people ask us what we do, we kind of help support a strategic initiative of centralizing recruiting. [03:10.000 --> 03:23.000] I guess in a really simple way, we get you great hourly candidates into your jobs quickly with very little friction so your hiring managers can focus on running their restaurant, their store, their warehouse, whatever they need to do. [03:23.000 --> 03:26.000] That was a lot, but that's a summary. [03:26.000 --> 03:31.000] Yeah, on your website, I was reading some of your client success stories. [03:31.000 --> 03:42.000] And it's a little mind boggling, quite honestly, to think that an organization needs to hire 700 or 7000 people and not have a TA plan to fill it. [03:42.000 --> 03:47.000] It just boggles my mind that it could ever get to that. [03:47.000 --> 03:56.000] So what sort of volumes are you talking about? Like, I saw one that was like, they needed to hire 700 people in like weeks. [03:56.000 --> 03:58.000] Yeah, seasonal hiring pushes. [03:58.000 --> 04:05.000] They're coming through 11th hour or where do you fit in kind of the talent attraction acquisition plan within a TA team? [04:05.000 --> 04:09.000] Yeah, when I look at that specifically that case study is seasonal hiring, right? [04:09.000 --> 04:17.000] So when you think about retailers and hospitality companies, they get this crazy surge of hires that they need to make in very short periods of time. [04:17.000 --> 04:21.000] Luckily with this one, we had a couple of months heads up to help them hire 700 people. [04:21.000 --> 04:28.000] And we talk about the strategy, I think in the past, what we find, and I'll use this specific client that we reference on the case study. [04:28.000 --> 04:42.000] This is an organization that has always been very successful with recruiting, but we're growing economic conditions, change limited resources internally and need a way to get a whole bunch of intensity into their business for a very short period of time and then us popping out. [04:43.000 --> 04:49.000] So their strategy was actually a great one, was a higher minefield to handle this all for us so we don't have to think about it. [04:49.000 --> 04:57.000] And for us to do that kind of volume, and we'll do 12,000 to 13,000 jobs, I believe we processed in 2023 for clients. [04:57.000 --> 05:00.000] We're expecting something very similar the same this year. [05:00.000 --> 05:05.000] That's what has forecasting a little bit of reduction in some of our big RPO clients just on volumes. [05:05.000 --> 05:09.000] But it's about technology and it's about uber specific process. [05:09.000 --> 05:14.000] So we don't change, we run the same five or six steps every single time for every single job. [05:14.000 --> 05:24.000] And one of the things we found with that kind of volume is being able to work directly with the hiring managers, a lot of the time that HR and recruitment folks will say, look, we're not going to get in the middle of this. [05:24.000 --> 05:28.000] Work directly with our managers and that helps streamline things big time. [05:28.000 --> 05:30.000] But it's intense, right? [05:30.000 --> 05:35.000] You've got to have a lot of marketing, a lot of advertising, really effective screening to get through that many candidates quickly. [05:36.000 --> 05:42.000] And the other thing too, and you guys know this, it's like candidates are people, hiring managers are people, and our recruiters are people. [05:42.000 --> 05:46.000] The level of subjectivity on what quality is all over and all. [05:46.000 --> 05:50.000] Our challenge when it comes to these types of projects is not necessarily finding the people. [05:50.000 --> 05:58.000] Or even getting into the process is around getting really good alignment with sometimes dozens of hiring managers on what that profile is. [05:58.000 --> 06:02.000] And that can be a unique challenge that you can probably imagine. [06:03.000 --> 06:08.000] I'd like to dig in a little bit deeper on that without revealing your secret sauce. [06:08.000 --> 06:10.000] But let's pull back the curtains. [06:10.000 --> 06:14.000] Climb you, they need to hire a thousand people in a short time frame. [06:14.000 --> 06:15.000] Yeah. [06:15.000 --> 06:16.000] What is your plan? [06:16.000 --> 06:17.000] How do you execute? [06:17.000 --> 06:18.000] What does that look like? [06:18.000 --> 06:20.000] Yeah, great question. [06:20.000 --> 06:27.000] So we'll build a project scope and a project brief that the started out to make sure that everyone's aligned and a lot of that will be anchored in a contract. [06:27.000 --> 06:33.000] But how we go about this is typically we've got our recruiters and our support account team. [06:33.000 --> 06:35.000] We'll obviously be working directly with the managers. [06:35.000 --> 06:40.000] But the nuts and bolts of what we do is we ingest all those jobs into our platform. [06:40.000 --> 06:45.000] We then run those jobs through programmatic advertising strategy and we had app cast on recently. [06:45.000 --> 06:49.000] So you'd listeners probably have a decent handle on what that is. [06:49.000 --> 06:51.000] So programmatic advertising for us is really key. [06:51.000 --> 06:56.000] And then as the applicants are applying into our platform, we will SMS screen them. [06:56.000 --> 07:02.000] On mass, we're able to get some really good feedback on if they have the basic requirements needed for the job. [07:02.000 --> 07:04.000] SMS screening, by the way, crushes. [07:04.000 --> 07:07.000] If you're a TA leader and you're not looking at this right now, you are really missing out. [07:07.000 --> 07:11.000] And we're going to be implementing a chatbot probably Q3 this year. [07:11.000 --> 07:14.000] That will really help automate this test that we're running. [07:14.000 --> 07:18.000] As the applicants apply in, our screening is happening. [07:18.000 --> 07:23.000] Recruiters are booking phone calls and having conversations with candidates to make sure they're right fit. [07:23.000 --> 07:30.000] And then we're submitting those candidates directly into pre scheduled or pre identified interview time slots that our hiring managers provide. [07:30.000 --> 07:32.000] So you get 700 people to play. [07:32.000 --> 07:37.000] So you need to know that there is the Friday time block is open so you can just fill it with candidates. [07:37.000 --> 07:47.000] And with that being said, we typically oversubscribe these interview time slots because we see now about a 22 to 25% no show rate in that hourly recruitment space. [07:47.000 --> 07:51.000] It peaked, by the way, during COVID towards the end of COVID. [07:51.000 --> 07:59.000] We were talking like 35, I saw it as high as 39% no show rate with candidates just ghosting on their interviews. [07:59.000 --> 08:01.000] And you can imagine, like right off the hop, what did we have to do? [08:01.000 --> 08:04.000] We had to increase the volume of candidates we were sending every single day. [08:04.000 --> 08:05.000] Yeah. [08:05.000 --> 08:07.000] Kind of all over the map to your question. [08:07.000 --> 08:14.000] But ultimately, how we go and deliver this is we get really crystal clear with the project for you put that client on exactly what success means to them. [08:14.000 --> 08:17.000] And also our view on definition of success. [08:17.000 --> 08:21.000] And we've got some really slick technology that makes our recruiters like hyper efficient. [08:21.000 --> 08:28.000] Like I'll stack our recruiters up against anybody as far as the number of candidate sends they can do per the number of jobs they can handle. [08:28.000 --> 08:32.000] And it's not about handling lots of jobs but handling them effectively. [08:32.000 --> 08:33.000] And it's hourly. [08:33.000 --> 08:34.000] You've got to be fast. [08:34.000 --> 08:36.000] You can't take 40 days to fill an hourly job. [08:36.000 --> 08:39.000] It's got to be happening in three to five days consistently. [08:39.000 --> 08:45.000] A lot of intensity around the process but anchored by technology and really awesome reporting. [08:45.000 --> 08:52.000] So just for the audience, I'd be shocked if any TA leader wasn't familiar with an RPO model. [08:52.000 --> 08:55.000] But you'd be surprised how many aren't. [08:55.000 --> 09:02.000] So tell me, is there a distinction between what minefield does and what a traditional staffing agency does? [09:02.000 --> 09:06.000] Yeah, there's definitely a few key differences. [09:06.000 --> 09:09.000] The core of the difference lies in our approach, I believe. [09:09.000 --> 09:16.000] And that approach is we're essentially working as an extension of a company's TA or HR team. [09:16.000 --> 09:19.000] And we're focused on the entire recruiting process. [09:19.000 --> 09:22.000] Like we're looking to optimize every step with you. [09:22.000 --> 09:25.000] We almost want to be seen as if they have an office which may even do. [09:25.000 --> 09:27.000] We're just the team down the end of the hallway, right? [09:27.000 --> 09:34.000] So we really want to be an extension of that organization getting really deep with their culture and their business and their processes. [09:34.000 --> 09:38.000] We just completed a massive work day integration with one of our clients, so bidirectional. [09:38.000 --> 09:45.000] Those are the types of things you would never see with a recruiting agency integrating their platform into a system like Workday. [09:45.000 --> 09:52.000] And I think the other thing that is fundamentally different is we bring a tech stack to the table and a branded approach for our clients. [09:52.000 --> 10:03.000] So occasionally we'll go to market confidentially, but really what we're doing is we are bringing an entire world class branded recruiting department in a box to our clients. [10:03.000 --> 10:17.000] And bringing them access to technology that maybe they can afford, maybe they can't, but certainly the optimization and the stitching together of all these things managed by SLAs is just a fundamental difference on how an agency would approach this. [10:17.000 --> 10:18.000] Okay. [10:18.000 --> 10:24.000] So then job seekers do know who the client is, unlike an agency where it's like, we have this opportunity. [10:24.000 --> 10:25.000] Do you know what I mean? [10:25.000 --> 10:26.000] Yes. [10:27.000 --> 10:28.000] Totally. [10:28.000 --> 10:29.000] Advertize their jobs. [10:29.000 --> 10:30.000] It's all this cloak and dagger. [10:30.000 --> 10:32.000] No idea who you're applying to. [10:32.000 --> 10:33.000] Yeah. [10:33.000 --> 10:40.000] So part of our enterprise RPO offering is we will go build you an awesome career site that's attached to your corporate page. [10:40.000 --> 10:42.000] The postings are branded. [10:42.000 --> 10:44.000] The candidates are going through a branded experience. [10:44.000 --> 10:51.000] We talk about candidate experience at some point, something that we put a major premium on, especially when your candidates are also your consumers. [10:52.000 --> 10:57.000] I don't know if you've seen Kevin Grossman's candidate resume and calculator, but like the numbers are staggering. [10:57.000 --> 10:58.000] You can just candidates off. [10:58.000 --> 11:00.000] It's not good on revenue impact. [11:00.000 --> 11:05.000] So really, it's about, and I'm not going to say long term relationships because agencies can have long term relationships too. [11:05.000 --> 11:20.000] It's really about us embedding ourselves, bringing technology to the table, stitching all this technology together, putting the simplest way to think of it as like your branded outsourced recruiting department with all the tech and all the systems and all the SLAs and with a nice little bow on top. [11:20.000 --> 11:24.000] And financial controls in place to make sure the client is calling for results. [11:24.000 --> 11:32.000] Yeah, a lot of organizations, the challenges recruitment goes up and down and they have a really hard time just staffing at the right amount. [11:32.000 --> 11:39.000] An RPO approach basically brings you a ready made team directly to your door with all the tools that you need to leverage. [11:39.000 --> 11:42.000] You mentioned your tech stack and what you're leveraging to be successful. [11:42.000 --> 11:45.000] Do you mind going a little bit deeper of what you're using? [11:45.000 --> 11:52.000] Because obviously, if you're hiring 12 to 15,000 people a year, you need to be on top of your game when it comes to that. [11:52.000 --> 11:56.000] Anything you can share of tools that you're leveraging and maybe you're happy with? [11:56.000 --> 12:03.000] Yeah, sure. Really early in this business, one of the challenges we saw in the RPO space, and there's different models of RPO. [12:03.000 --> 12:04.000] There's different flavors of it. [12:04.000 --> 12:05.000] There's the recruiter. [12:05.000 --> 12:07.000] Hey, I'm going to rent a recruiter. [12:07.000 --> 12:12.000] We're going to charge you a premium on that recruiter and they're going to work within your business and your systems. [12:12.000 --> 12:16.000] That's certainly a model and it's very successful and it works for lots of businesses. [12:16.000 --> 12:22.000] When we looked at R's, one of the problems is we wanted to have universal data across our client bases. [12:22.000 --> 12:31.000] If you work within your client's ATSs, there's no way you can look across 12 clients and say, what's our time to hire in one simple platform? [12:31.000 --> 12:35.000] What we did was we actually built an entire delivery engine off of Salesforce.com. [12:36.000 --> 12:44.000] We took the Salesforce platform and we built an entire recruiter module within that as well as building out what we call our hire portal, [12:44.000 --> 12:53.000] which is really an order and fulfillment platform that every one of our hiring managers can access to quickly open up jobs, update candidates, give us interview scheduling. [12:53.000 --> 12:56.000] We're an RPO. We're not a technology company. [12:56.000 --> 13:03.000] We don't want to build tech from scratch, but what we could do is we could leverage the plumbing of a platform like Salesforce, [13:03.000 --> 13:11.000] build up what is a very unique piece of technology compared to anything else on the market to really be purpose specific there. [13:11.000 --> 13:19.000] Starting with a tech stack, and I don't know if you're familiar with Salesforce, and almost everybody is, the analytics, if you build your workflows properly, [13:19.000 --> 13:25.000] your analytics on the back end of your ability to extract data is second to none and that was something that we really put a premium on. [13:26.000 --> 13:31.000] We started with our system of record or ATS, if you would, we don't even call it an ATS. [13:31.000 --> 13:34.000] Then what we've done on the front end is we've actually plugged in Jovios. [13:34.000 --> 13:36.000] We've recently migrated over to the Jovio. [13:36.000 --> 13:43.000] We were using Jovios to program a platform and then recently deployed their talent CRM, which is brand new. [13:43.000 --> 13:45.000] We actually had a chance to build it with them. [13:45.000 --> 13:47.000] It was such a cool experience for our team. [13:47.000 --> 13:53.000] We've been able to work with that group to build out a tool that is so specifically perfect for us. [13:53.000 --> 13:56.000] We're really pumped and we just implemented that in December. [13:56.000 --> 13:59.000] This is going to be our first year that we're going to be on that. [13:59.000 --> 14:05.000] Right now, we're using a couple different SMS tools to screen, but we haven't landed on our chatbot strategy. [14:05.000 --> 14:10.000] We're considering the paradoxes and the sense of the world and all this stuff. [14:10.000 --> 14:21.000] But because we use Salesforce, there are an enormous number of AI, B2C, chatbot tools that exist that allow us to buck the trend [14:21.000 --> 14:24.000] and configure what we need to configure for ourselves. [14:24.000 --> 14:27.000] It's a pain in the ass having to build this stuff yourself. [14:27.000 --> 14:32.000] But when you build it right and it's custom to you, it works like a dream. [14:32.000 --> 14:35.000] Thank you. That's really insightful. [14:35.000 --> 14:41.000] A lot of recruiters when they're looking at where they're going to work, one of the things is what technology is being used [14:41.000 --> 14:46.000] because if you work in the shitty ATS for 90% of your days, there's a lot of them. [14:46.000 --> 14:47.000] There's a lot of them. [14:47.000 --> 14:48.000] True. [14:48.000 --> 14:49.000] That really sucks. [14:49.000 --> 14:55.000] It really sucks to work in a tool that is just not efficient and especially they're spending most of your time on. [14:55.000 --> 15:00.000] I guess that's one of the things that would be attractive for a recruiter when they're looking for a job [15:00.000 --> 15:03.000] considering RPO as an option. [15:03.000 --> 15:04.000] What's your thoughts? [15:04.000 --> 15:10.000] Why should a recruiter go work in RPO over a staffing or internal corporate? [15:10.000 --> 15:12.000] Yeah, that's a great question. [15:12.000 --> 15:17.000] I actually think the term RPO in that model is still very immature in Canada. [15:17.000 --> 15:22.000] We actually don't really market ourselves too much, but even to recruiters, like we don't scream from the rooftops, [15:22.000 --> 15:27.000] hey come work at an RPO because I don't think there's that many recruiters in Canada working in an RPO, [15:27.000 --> 15:29.000] nor is there a knowledge of it. [15:29.000 --> 15:32.000] So we have to kind of educate on the values. [15:32.000 --> 15:37.000] One of the things we typically like hiring people from the recruiting agency industry, [15:37.000 --> 15:42.000] specifically ones that are maybe tired of selling every day, just banging the phone all morning [15:42.000 --> 15:44.000] and then in a contingent search type environment. [15:44.000 --> 15:46.000] You could be sending great candidates. [15:46.000 --> 15:50.000] You could be doing everything you need to do, but you don't have the money to put food on the table at the end of the month. [15:50.000 --> 15:54.000] Despite being a really good recruiter, maybe you're not a great sales person, but you're a great recruiter. [15:54.000 --> 15:59.000] One of the things that we believe is unique is they get to work on diverse projects. [15:59.000 --> 16:03.000] Being in a corporate environment, you're really focused in on just that corporation. [16:03.000 --> 16:09.000] But you could move around to different clients, different regions even, and actually get exposed to some things [16:09.000 --> 16:15.000] over a 12 to 24 month period that is a game changer when compared to what you would do in a corporate environment. [16:15.000 --> 16:18.000] You might get to touch two or three different sectors. [16:18.000 --> 16:21.000] You might get to touch different types of roles. [16:21.000 --> 16:26.000] And one of the things that we found, if you ever did a search on LinkedIn for past buying field employees [16:26.000 --> 16:32.000] and what they're doing now, we have some incredible success stories of people that have grown not only as recruiters, [16:32.000 --> 16:36.000] but heads of marketing for large global staffing businesses. [16:36.000 --> 16:40.000] And these are people that joined us in their mid to late 20s, and we taught them how to recruit. [16:40.000 --> 16:43.000] And what was so critical for me, at least coming from a non recruiting background [16:43.000 --> 16:50.000] when I started this business was the necessity to manage the data in our systems with precision. [16:50.000 --> 16:58.000] And so any recruiter that comes out of minefield uses systems at a level that I think is superior to maybe other agencies [16:58.000 --> 17:02.000] for sure a corporate environment, much more than a corporate environment, what I typically find. [17:02.000 --> 17:05.000] So diversity, I think that's cool. [17:05.000 --> 17:11.000] And the way we structure our process, I think people may not know how much they're learning about [17:11.000 --> 17:16.000] delivering a good recruitment service in the moment, but down the road, they're kind of like, [17:16.000 --> 17:19.000] wow, actually we had our stuff buttoned up and we hear this all the time. [17:19.000 --> 17:24.000] It's minefield's process is really tight compared to where they see things with other organizations. [17:24.000 --> 17:31.000] I'm going to guess one of the downside of working as a recruiter for an RPO is just the pace is incredible [17:31.000 --> 17:34.000] because you mentioned your time to hire needs to be really quick. [17:34.000 --> 17:37.000] You need to be on top of these candidates or they'll be gone. [17:37.000 --> 17:39.000] How do you keep your recruiters? [17:39.000 --> 17:42.000] Yeah, I'd love to say we're awesome at this surge. [17:42.000 --> 17:48.000] I think one of the things that we've done is we've been a great place for entry level recruiters to learn, right? [17:48.000 --> 17:54.000] There were this incredible opportunity to get some really great recruiting experience. [17:54.000 --> 17:58.000] And I think a big part of our role is to be a bit of a stepping stone, keeping people in. [17:58.000 --> 18:00.000] It is an intense environment. [18:00.000 --> 18:04.000] But I think most high performing organizations, there's going to be a level of intensity. [18:05.000 --> 18:09.000] I always think if people are working weekends and nights consistently, like something's wrong. [18:09.000 --> 18:14.000] The organization hasn't resourced the business properly or that person doesn't have the right training [18:14.000 --> 18:18.000] or that we've sent them down a rabbit hole that's just impossible to go. [18:18.000 --> 18:24.000] We're constantly trying to create growth opportunities, but it's hard to predict where the growth opportunities are within an organization. [18:24.000 --> 18:28.000] How do we keep people, compensate them well, and much better than we used to. [18:28.000 --> 18:33.000] I think we've learned a lot over the years where instead of a whole bunch of junior recruiters [18:33.000 --> 18:38.000] we're migrating towards more skilled recruiters that can handle more and want to own more accountability. [18:38.000 --> 18:43.000] That's helping fulfill people a little bit more because now they're touching on client management [18:43.000 --> 18:46.000] and the sourcing campaigns and owning a region. [18:46.000 --> 18:48.000] So there's some neat stuff there. [18:48.000 --> 18:51.000] But it's always been a challenge for us to create enough growth opportunities for everybody. [18:51.000 --> 18:54.000] We've really struggled to do it and everybody's really wanted it. [18:54.000 --> 19:02.000] We've had some amazing people in this organization that I feel like we've maybe let down because we couldn't create enough opportunity for them quickly enough. [19:03.000 --> 19:07.000] And they're awesome, so they get awesome opportunities outside of the business. [19:07.000 --> 19:08.000] And that's okay. [19:08.000 --> 19:09.000] The recruiting industry. [19:09.000 --> 19:12.000] It's kind of one of those areas where there is lots of movement I find. [19:12.000 --> 19:18.000] I agree and partly it's a recruiter and partly it's just the nature of the role, right? [19:18.000 --> 19:20.000] It's an area of whole mind when the economy gets rough. [19:20.000 --> 19:22.000] A lot of corporate recruiters get laid off. [19:22.000 --> 19:23.000] Maybe less on the staffing side. [19:23.000 --> 19:26.000] Maybe a little bit less on the RPO side, yeah. [19:26.000 --> 19:29.000] Yeah, there's certainly been lots of layoffs in the last 12 months that were recruiting, right? [19:29.000 --> 19:30.000] Especially in the US. [19:30.000 --> 19:34.000] It's a tough spot right now for people if you're a recruiter looking for work. [19:34.000 --> 19:35.000] There's a lot of them. [19:35.000 --> 19:37.000] We're about to do a posting next week. [19:37.000 --> 19:41.000] I'm forecasting probably north of 300 applicants for it. [19:41.000 --> 19:42.000] Interesting. [19:42.000 --> 19:44.000] Especially because it's fully remote too, right? [19:44.000 --> 19:45.000] It's fully remote. [19:45.000 --> 19:47.000] The comm is really good. [19:47.000 --> 19:48.000] You get lots of autonomy. [19:48.000 --> 19:50.000] I think our clients are great. [19:50.000 --> 19:53.000] And that's an opportunity to work remote and make six digits. [19:53.000 --> 19:55.000] It's a pretty great gig, right? [19:55.000 --> 19:58.000] Shelly, I might apply just heads up. [19:59.000 --> 20:01.000] Maybe I will too. [20:01.000 --> 20:06.000] Let's talk a little bit about like the world of hourly is fascinating. [20:06.000 --> 20:13.000] There's some organizations that have mastered building a pipeline of return workers for seasonal [20:13.000 --> 20:19.000] where they've trained the market that every March, we are going to need 4,000 people. [20:19.000 --> 20:20.000] Yeah. [20:20.000 --> 20:26.000] But when we look at stores and restaurants like retail, and I'm talking high volume, right? [20:26.000 --> 20:31.000] Is there really an opportunity for them to have any sort of candidate pipeline? [20:31.000 --> 20:36.000] Because when people change, do they come back to minefield and say, hey, you placed me over [20:36.000 --> 20:40.000] at whatever retailer and ready for a change? [20:40.000 --> 20:42.000] Yeah, the seasonal boomerang. [20:42.000 --> 20:43.000] It's a one company. [20:43.000 --> 20:46.000] They built a really awesome system. [20:46.000 --> 20:48.000] We looked at building something similar to this. [20:48.000 --> 20:53.000] But they'd hire all those seasonal staff and then it was a very simple process for the manager [20:53.000 --> 20:59.000] of that seasonal employee to rate that quality of that individual post-work, right? [20:59.000 --> 21:01.000] So they'd work and they'd score them. [21:01.000 --> 21:05.000] And anyone that ranked above a certain level, the following year, the system automatically [21:05.000 --> 21:07.000] sent out for letters to these people that started again. [21:07.000 --> 21:08.000] I thought it was super smart. [21:08.000 --> 21:11.000] Like, if anyone has a recruit, we just know you're great. [21:11.000 --> 21:15.000] Here's an email we'd like to offer you a seasonal rollback with our business. [21:15.000 --> 21:17.000] And here is the link to sign the contract. [21:17.000 --> 21:18.000] I haven't heard that anywhere. [21:18.000 --> 21:19.000] No. [21:19.000 --> 21:21.000] It's the first time I heard that. [21:21.000 --> 21:23.000] And actually, I will give them a shout-out. [21:23.000 --> 21:24.000] So Ritzia does this. [21:24.000 --> 21:27.000] So Ritzia has built some pretty slick technology. [21:27.000 --> 21:31.000] And they actually think they're a sales force shop as well with how they build some of their tools. [21:31.000 --> 21:34.000] So when I heard that, I was like, that is awesome. [21:34.000 --> 21:37.000] And I don't think it's that crazy to build something like this. [21:37.000 --> 21:43.000] But when we think about talent pipeline, and I believe if I recall, they were rehiring like 25 to 30% of the workforce. [21:43.000 --> 21:46.000] So the question is, is, can you build a talent pipeline at seasonal? [21:46.000 --> 21:50.000] I'm not convinced that today's hourly job seeker, at least the high majority of them, [21:50.000 --> 21:53.000] is built for that type of talent pipeline. [21:53.000 --> 22:00.000] I think you need a massive pool of candidates and an incredible ability to send text messages to them to find out if they want in or out. [22:00.000 --> 22:06.000] But what I will say is that what we do is we definitely go back to people that got hired last year. [22:06.000 --> 22:09.000] So you need a system to go back and say, who got hired? [22:09.000 --> 22:12.000] And are they interested again of reengaging? [22:12.000 --> 22:16.000] So that's the simplest way to look at your talent pipeline is you already did all the work. [22:16.000 --> 22:20.000] You already got them hired. You already found them and screened them and got them into the business. [22:20.000 --> 22:24.000] And you already know to a certain degree that they're moderately successful in the role. [22:24.000 --> 22:28.000] We've struggled with this idea of a talent pipeline. [22:28.000 --> 22:36.000] You know, do hourly job seekers want to join a pipeline and get messaged every couple of weeks surrounding interesting employment branding opportunities? [22:36.000 --> 22:38.000] I'm not convinced that they do. [22:38.000 --> 22:39.000] No. [22:39.000 --> 22:41.000] I think they want a job and they want a job yesterday. [22:41.000 --> 22:47.000] So I believe that if you can take elements like boomerang hires from previous seasonal. [22:47.000 --> 22:54.000] And then, you know, I think the idea of having a pre-built database of people that are going to fill these jobs is a bit of a myth. [22:54.000 --> 22:57.000] I think you can help. You can certainly send messages. [22:57.000 --> 23:04.000] But that talent pipeline is really more names on a list that you want to be able to go text and email and then filter them really quickly. [23:04.000 --> 23:05.000] Mm-hmm. [23:05.000 --> 23:08.000] I know it's contrary, right? Like it's always that talent pipeline. [23:08.000 --> 23:11.000] But let me ask you this, Shelley. How do you define talent pipeline? [23:11.000 --> 23:15.000] Because maybe aligning on the definition is where I should have started the response of this question. [23:15.000 --> 23:17.000] But how do you define a talent pipeline? [23:17.000 --> 23:26.000] So it would be those that you know are interested, first of all, even have a clue that you exist, that the opportunity exists. [23:26.000 --> 23:33.000] And it would be those that are in the right demographic or even geographic area. [23:33.000 --> 23:34.000] Yes. [23:34.000 --> 23:41.000] You have it narrowed down so that you have a sense of what is the labor pool within a certain market skill set. [23:41.000 --> 23:49.000] But you've got a real good handle. I know I work with a magnificent organization that hires thousands of people, but they're all skilled trades. [23:49.000 --> 23:50.000] Mm-hmm. [23:50.000 --> 23:59.000] And when I talk about talent pipelining, it's knowing what is the available talent of this skill set in this geography. [23:59.000 --> 24:00.000] Yes. [24:00.000 --> 24:07.000] It's not to me as a pipeline where you truly know if you're going to be continuing to spend money on digital advertising, [24:07.000 --> 24:10.000] it's got to be because they've never heard of you. [24:10.000 --> 24:12.000] Yeah, that's a great point. [24:12.000 --> 24:20.000] It's the awareness part, top of the funnel, and then getting them into your pipeline that you know that they're in that job family, right? [24:20.000 --> 24:21.000] Yes. [24:21.000 --> 24:27.000] And that's the hardest thing to do, I think, certainly in attracting the right type of people. [24:27.000 --> 24:35.000] And I think the mistake that I see over and over again is you have your IT department go implement your ATS apply process, [24:35.000 --> 24:41.000] and there's zero thinking on what are the four or five fields and data points that I want on every single applicant, [24:41.000 --> 24:43.000] so I can do this type of work in my database. [24:43.000 --> 24:49.000] Why not ask every applicant or you're interested in full-time, part-time or seasonal roles and multi-select them? [24:49.000 --> 24:50.000] Yeah. [24:50.000 --> 24:54.000] And then at very least right away you get your seasonal and you zero in on the geo and injury talent pipeline. [24:54.000 --> 25:02.000] So this is an area that I think we've really worked on over the years was how to collect the least amount of information possible, [25:02.000 --> 25:09.000] but the right amount of information actually gives us a fighting shot to understand our database and market to it appropriately for future opportunities. [25:09.000 --> 25:21.000] Cameron, do you get nervous at all or do you stay up at night wondering about are we going to exhaust the available talent pool that is out there? [25:21.000 --> 25:27.000] You can use the example of Amazon, but you're hiring a lot of early roles and we're in a situation in Canada. [25:27.000 --> 25:33.000] And I guess across the world there is a talent scarcity, especially when it comes to these types of roles. [25:33.000 --> 25:35.000] Are you nervous about that at all? [25:35.000 --> 25:37.000] I would say yes. [25:37.000 --> 25:38.000] Yes, but. [25:38.000 --> 25:47.000] And what I mean is I think that this hourly workforce space, if you're not a great employer and you don't look after your people, [25:47.000 --> 25:50.000] the problem is going to get worse and worse and worse. [25:50.000 --> 25:53.000] Now, you're a good employer and you actually care about your employees. [25:53.000 --> 25:56.000] I actually don't think there's much risk and concern around that. [25:56.000 --> 25:58.000] I was talking to one of our team members yesterday. [25:58.000 --> 26:09.000] And one of the interesting points they were making was the volume, like the percentage of new Canadians on student visas, [26:09.000 --> 26:12.000] because now they can now work in Canada, which is a change they made last year. [26:12.000 --> 26:21.000] We are seeing massive spike in the percentage of new Canadians and students here visiting the country for schooling. [26:21.000 --> 26:25.000] Those types of candidates are skyrocketing we're seeing across the board, right? [26:25.000 --> 26:33.000] There is a lot of people coming into Canada, whether or not they all want a minimum wage job at Tim Hortons is probably pretty unlikely. [26:33.000 --> 26:40.000] This is exactly why we invest a lot of money in sourcing tech and talent marketing tech. [26:40.000 --> 26:46.000] So, short term, probably not, because I don't think we're going to see huge growth in the economy this year, [26:46.000 --> 26:53.000] and I'm certainly not an economist, but my gut in talking to people, I don't think Canada should plan for a massive resurgence from an economy perspective. [26:53.000 --> 27:00.000] Maybe we get some industry points reduced, maybe there was some lowering of some of that, but until things get really busy again, [27:00.000 --> 27:06.000] I think we've got a little bit of time, but if you're an employer with no strategy in place, or you've got no direct sourcing, [27:06.000 --> 27:13.000] or worst cases, your only strategy is posting jobs on a date, you're going to be in bootchet in two to three years. [27:13.000 --> 27:15.000] That's what I believe. [27:15.000 --> 27:17.000] I do not disagree. [27:17.000 --> 27:20.000] I think you give us a little bit of a prediction there, but I'm curious. [27:20.000 --> 27:26.000] Do you want to take out your crystal ball and give us a prediction for 2024, either the labor market, [27:26.000 --> 27:31.000] or what new tech is really going to disrupt how and what we're doing right now? [27:31.000 --> 27:38.000] Yeah, I'll touch on the labor market piece. My expectation is it'll be another top year for recruiting firms and RPOs, [27:38.000 --> 27:45.000] and not necessarily RPOs, so I actually think RPOs is where a lot of organizations go to if they lay off their TA and HR folk, [27:45.000 --> 27:50.000] because that's going to be an area we've seen a lot of layoffs in recruitment roles that's going to continue this year. [27:50.000 --> 27:57.000] I'm sure the LinkedIn post a week ago, I think we're going to see a very similar year as far as the volumes. [27:57.000 --> 28:02.000] I think people are going to quit less. I think that people are going to want to stick around a little bit longer in their roles [28:02.000 --> 28:06.000] than they normally would, and it's no longer jumping for a job that's a dollar down the street. [28:06.000 --> 28:08.000] But it's such a wild guess. [28:08.000 --> 28:10.000] Who knows, right? Who knows what this year. [28:10.000 --> 28:15.000] And my one crystal ball thing is this year is either going to be a really calm, non-event year, [28:15.000 --> 28:19.000] or it's going to be the weirdest year that we've all ever experienced on this planet. [28:19.000 --> 28:20.000] That's what I'm printing and commits. [28:20.000 --> 28:26.000] There's no in between. I don't know what that means, but there's just a lot of stuff going on in the world and in the economy [28:26.000 --> 28:29.000] and politics that could make this year an interesting one. [28:29.000 --> 28:36.000] But on the tech side, we use chat GPT for a lot, right? I use chat GPT to help me think through things all the time. [28:36.000 --> 28:39.000] And in my mind, who's going to go build? [28:39.000 --> 28:42.000] Okay, so can I just jam on an idea for a second? [28:42.000 --> 28:43.000] Yes, I do. [28:43.000 --> 28:44.000] This is interesting. [28:44.000 --> 28:48.000] Instead of going to a job board or instead of going to a careers page, careers page is better [28:48.000 --> 28:51.000] because I actually think the AI would work better this way. [28:51.000 --> 28:55.000] So imagine going to a careers page on a corporation site. [28:55.000 --> 28:58.000] And there's no list of jobs. It's just the big chat box. [28:58.000 --> 29:02.000] And it says, great, how can I help you? First thing you do is upload your resume. [29:02.000 --> 29:07.000] The AI then analyzes your resume and then cross references it with any of the open jobs immediately and says, [29:07.000 --> 29:09.000] here's the ones that are the closest match. [29:09.000 --> 29:12.000] Which one of these are you interested in applying for? Select. [29:12.000 --> 29:16.000] And then what that does is it actually extracts a little bit of their information. [29:16.000 --> 29:22.000] And if there's maybe not a job that's a perfect fit, if you build that AI to actually think about talent pools, [29:22.000 --> 29:25.000] and it's like, you'd be really interesting for a product marketing team. [29:25.000 --> 29:27.000] Or I'm thinking not hourly here a little bit, right? [29:27.000 --> 29:33.000] Thinking just in general, we're seeing a little bit of this conversational generative AI in some spots. [29:33.000 --> 29:38.000] But imagine you could just take your phone out and upload your resume and have a chat. [29:38.000 --> 29:46.000] And then literally by the end of that chat, you've got an interview scheduled with the hiring manager at three o'clock the next day without applying to a job at all. [29:47.000 --> 29:51.000] How far is that away? But that can't be that far. It can't be. [29:51.000 --> 30:01.000] It sounds like utopia. It does. And the possibilities of AI are just like in anything you can imagine. It can happen. [30:01.000 --> 30:04.000] I think so. And it's not about eliminating the recruiter. [30:04.000 --> 30:07.000] I don't think technology is going to replace recruiters for a while. [30:07.000 --> 30:14.000] And we know what it is. It's called a relationship. Humans are not ready to build a relationship with a bot like they are with a human. [30:14.000 --> 30:17.000] And we've got some time until the bot gets human, I think. [30:17.000 --> 30:27.000] But this idea of frictionless conversation with an employment brand around who you are, what might be an interesting fit for you. [30:27.000 --> 30:31.000] And then being able to take you down a path that it gives you an incredible experience. [30:31.000 --> 30:33.000] Maybe at the end of it, you're not a fit. [30:33.000 --> 30:36.000] But think about the candidate experience. You got half a million applicants in here. [30:36.000 --> 30:39.000] Every single one of them gets to have a custom conversation. [30:39.000 --> 30:41.000] And then I don't know. I just think it's really unique. [30:41.000 --> 30:47.000] I think someone's building this right now. I've heard IBM Watson has got some really cool stuff that they're trying to do around this on the HR front. [30:47.000 --> 30:50.000] I don't know. What do you guys think? I think that's interesting to me. [30:50.000 --> 30:55.000] Yeah. I think it's really interesting. Like you said, it probably works better on the career page of an employer. [30:55.000 --> 31:05.000] I see it working better in a large job site or a paper that has a lot of jobs because there is more opportunity to actually align that particular resume. [31:06.000 --> 31:13.000] I see something like that working extremely well for an indeed that has a ton of data, a ton of jobs. [31:13.000 --> 31:23.000] The risk you might run across. It really depends. Obviously, if it's an organization with 10,000 open roles a year, there's going to be enough content that you're going to be able to fit most roles. [31:23.000 --> 31:30.000] But then employer that's hiring 10, 20, 30 roles a year, there might be some hesitancy from the job seeker being like, [31:30.000 --> 31:37.000] why do you want my info and you give the info and then you get really nothing back. That might be a risk. [31:37.000 --> 31:51.000] I like the concept. I like where it's going. But I think the other factor that we have to be very conscious of is a lot of job seekers are going to become a way more wary of sharing their resume and their data than they are even now, [31:52.000 --> 31:58.000] unless they align it to a particular role and be like, hey, this is why I'm sharing this data. [31:58.000 --> 32:06.000] And this could be how it's communicated. We're asking for that resume because we're going to do this, this, this and this and this. [32:06.000 --> 32:11.000] If you don't do that, be like, hey, enter a resume. We'll try to match you with a job. It's not going to work. [32:11.000 --> 32:16.000] I think there's going to be some hesitancy from job seekers to share info. [32:16.000 --> 32:24.000] Yeah, I don't disagree. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but you can imagine the lawsuits that has got the potential to emerge over time, right? [32:24.000 --> 32:30.000] It's pretty legit. In the United States, people sue when they don't get hired and in Canada, everyone sue when they get fired. [32:30.000 --> 32:37.000] It's like the golden rule around employment law, which didn't say that because it's probably not completely true. [32:37.000 --> 32:41.000] But, you know, in generalities, but who knows what this AI adoption stuff is going to look like? [32:41.000 --> 32:46.000] That's a thing. It's in five years from now. Does everybody have their AI recruiter on their phone? [32:46.000 --> 32:52.000] That's constantly looking all over the world for the right opportunity for them and applying to jobs and communicating on their behalf. [32:52.000 --> 32:55.000] In some ways, it's happening right now. [32:55.000 --> 32:59.000] There are rules that are very close to what you're saying there. [32:59.000 --> 33:00.000] Yeah. [33:00.000 --> 33:07.000] I think the next couple of years are going to be very interesting, but I'm going to take that idea and actually you'll see it launch in a couple of weeks. [33:08.000 --> 33:11.000] Let me know if you need a seat investor. I'll be interested. [33:11.000 --> 33:16.000] One thing I would like to point out that I love about the idea where I know you're onto something. [33:16.000 --> 33:24.000] And that is job seekers couldn't possibly know where they have transferable skills in industries and jobs. [33:24.000 --> 33:32.000] You just don't even know what you don't know. So I love that kind of consumer parallel recommended for you of things. [33:32.000 --> 33:35.000] You're like, oh my God, that makes perfect sense. [33:35.000 --> 33:40.000] And that's the skill based hiring trend, right? That's the skill based hiring trend. Everybody's talking about. [33:40.000 --> 33:45.000] Yeah, absolutely. And that's where I believe that the industry is heading. [33:45.000 --> 33:50.000] I don't believe there's quite the talent shortage that were led to believe. [33:50.000 --> 33:59.000] What there is is a whole lot of bias around why you can't go from doing this work and then into another industry or to another organization. [33:59.000 --> 34:03.000] I don't know if you remember in high school, we all did. It might have been a Myers-Briggs. [34:03.000 --> 34:06.000] And it said you should be a circus clown, right? Whatever. [34:06.000 --> 34:10.000] What a great experience for high school students. You're going to be. [34:10.000 --> 34:16.000] You'd be very successful as a figure skater. And I'm like, no, I wouldn't. [34:16.000 --> 34:22.000] At any rate, it's that idea. But my God, Myers-Briggs is 1950, right? [34:22.000 --> 34:32.000] We have some amazing technology now that says, these are the attributes that, you know, have you ever considered jobs doing this and this? [34:32.000 --> 34:36.000] Then the next step would be to say, here's where there are job openings. [34:36.000 --> 34:41.000] Oh, and by the way, like you are a fit for this type of work and here's why, right? [34:41.000 --> 34:43.000] Yeah. I think that's really interesting. [34:43.000 --> 34:52.000] Bottom line is that I think that the speed at which this industry is going to have to adopt technology is about to go into hyperdrive in the next three to five years. [34:52.000 --> 34:56.000] This is put it back, right? The ATS function hasn't really changed much. [34:56.000 --> 35:04.000] The talent marketing CRM systems are basically just stuff that the marketing groups have been using for 10 years, right? [35:04.000 --> 35:11.000] I agree, but I'm going to be a little less altruistic than both of you when it comes to exactly this approach. [35:11.000 --> 35:14.000] We're in the talent space. We've been talking about skill-based hiring. [35:14.000 --> 35:19.000] We see the need for transferable skills because we know there's a skills mismatch. [35:19.000 --> 35:24.000] Like, I don't think to your point, Shelley, the labor market is as bad or we're missing that many people. [35:24.000 --> 35:27.000] It's just there's a mismatch of skills right now. [35:27.000 --> 35:31.000] So we all agree we're all in the space. We see this on the day-to-day basis. [35:31.000 --> 35:37.000] Our hiring managers are not having these discussions. They're not researching into this. [35:37.000 --> 35:41.000] They're still wanting that person with exactly the skills that they need. [35:41.000 --> 35:49.000] So on day one, they can start doing the job without sucking time of the hiring manager to train for three, six months. [35:49.000 --> 35:56.000] So I still think until we get to the point that there's really no option in the labor market, [35:56.000 --> 36:02.000] that hiring managers are going to push back on this to a point that's going to be very difficult to implement. [36:02.000 --> 36:03.000] That's just my thought. [36:04.000 --> 36:05.000] You're right, sir. [36:05.000 --> 36:09.000] You're right. At the end of the day, what do we do? What does a corporate TA team do? [36:09.000 --> 36:18.000] You deliver candidates quickly, better fit for the job, and you're right. The hiring managers don't really care about anything else except for the outcome and the result. [36:18.000 --> 36:22.000] Did you get my job filled at a pace and a speed that I'm happy with? [36:22.000 --> 36:25.000] With a candidate that I think's got a potential to succeed here. [36:25.000 --> 36:30.000] And all of the noise around what goes into this is relevant really on delivering the service. [36:30.000 --> 36:40.000] This is really where we're trying to position ourselves is we will take your hiring manager time and all your spend and have us handle it for you for less money, [36:40.000 --> 36:43.000] and we will probably cut your time to hire in half. [36:43.000 --> 36:48.000] And how we do it is almost irrelevant to 99% of the conversations I'm having. [36:48.000 --> 36:53.000] So I agree. It's fun to geek out on this stuff, but when you actually look at building a business or building a solution, [36:53.000 --> 36:57.000] whether you're internal or external, it comes down to one thing. [36:57.000 --> 37:03.000] It's job boards that deliver good candidates. It's recruiting services that make it frictionless for that manager to make hire. [37:03.000 --> 37:11.000] It's that manager consistently be able to staff and build their workforce. Everything else is noise around those outcomes happening the way they need to happen. [37:11.000 --> 37:17.000] And I think it's the reason that we've been talking about replacing the resume for 30 years and we haven't been able to do that. [37:17.000 --> 37:21.000] So Cameron, this was a really interesting conversation, your insights. [37:21.000 --> 37:32.000] And you know what? I don't think we've talked too much about our P on this program. So I'm glad we are because it is a part of talent acquisition that is just misunderstood in a lot of ways. [37:32.000 --> 37:37.000] So I think bring this to light is critical. Cameron, if anyone wants to get a hold of you, what's the best way? [37:37.000 --> 37:44.000] I'm really active on LinkedIn. So you want to send me a message or even a comment on stuff I'm typically posting every day. [37:44.000 --> 37:50.000] So that's one way to get a hold of me. You can also email me at Cameron dot Laker at minefieldjobs.com. [37:50.000 --> 37:56.000] If you're interested in chatting with the industry, you're looking for a recruiter gig. If you want to learn more about our PO, you can reach me there. [37:56.000 --> 38:04.000] Our website is minefieldjobs.com. But the best way is probably if you're on LinkedIn, just shoot me a note and send me a connection request so I never say no to them. [38:04.000 --> 38:07.000] And we can connect there with these guests. [38:07.000 --> 38:09.000] Perfect. Thank you so much for coming on Cameron. [38:09.000 --> 38:12.000] I really appreciate you guys having me. Thank you so much. [38:12.000 --> 38:14.000] Thank you. Arfwah. [38:21.000 --> 38:27.000] Shelley, let's face it, taxing candidates is the easiest way to hire quicker today. [38:27.000 --> 38:32.000] But your cell phone doesn't connect to your ATS. You're sharing your personal number with strangers. [38:32.000 --> 38:37.000] That's pretty scary, right, Shelley? And it's not even legally compliant. [38:37.000 --> 38:50.000] This is where our friends at RecTechs come in. They've created simple yet powerful text recruiting software that works with your ATS. Plus, it's designed by recruiters for recruiters so you know it works. [38:50.000 --> 38:58.000] To learn more and book a demo, visit www.rect.com. [38:58.000 --> 39:02.000] Mention the recruitment flex and get 10% off annual plans. [39:03.000 --> 39:10.000] Imagine how fast we could solve the world's biggest problems if more SaaS startups would gain traction sooner. [39:10.000 --> 39:13.000] Welcome to the Tech Entrepreneur on Emission podcast. [39:13.000 --> 39:22.000] This podcast is dedicated to sharing experiences from B2B Saa CEOs who are going above and beyond to deliver change that is noticed. [39:22.000 --> 39:29.000] You will hear their secrets and learn what is required to build a SaaS business that the world starts talking about and keeps talking about. [39:29.000 --> 39:32.000] And how to overcome the roadblocks to do so. Transcription results written to '/home/forge/transcribe3.sonicengage.com/releases/20240207165123' directory
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