The Chinwag Collective Evenings - The Role of Music in Advertising

[00:00:00] Hey all, welcome to The Chinwag Collective and specifically welcome to Chinwag evenings.

[00:00:11] Part of the Chinwag Collective, the podcast collective where we put out audio podcasts

[00:00:17] every price in a while and we're hoping this is the start of what will become a once

[00:00:22] a month meeting where we discuss stuff of relevance, we discuss stuff of importance

[00:00:28] around various areas, it could be music, experiential, theater, advertising, a combination of these.

[00:00:37] But the idea is for us to have real conversations and I do believe we have the right people

[00:00:44] both on this side of the fence as also your side of the fence live on ground with us.

[00:00:51] Want to say a big hello to all all of you who will be tuning in as we go along to the

[00:00:57] podcast, both audio and audio visually.

[00:01:00] Okay today we are hoping to hold in in the area of music and advertising and the topic

[00:01:08] of discussion really is what role does music play in advertising?

[00:01:15] Does it play a role in advertising?

[00:01:17] We've had a few animated discussions before we got the microphones and cameras rolling

[00:01:22] and we're hoping that we will revive those little early conversations today.

[00:01:28] And of course to do justice to a conversation like this or a discussion like this, I do

[00:01:34] believe you need the right people who are convicted in their point of view but are open

[00:01:38] to listening, debating, arguing, agreeing to disagree, disagreeing to agree killing each

[00:01:45] other.

[00:01:46] No, I didn't say that.

[00:01:47] And I do believe we have the right people in the house.

[00:01:49] I'm going to start off with Ambi who's spent a lifetime and a half in advertising, I look

[00:01:56] it too.

[00:01:57] A humble man as well as you can hear and see but Ambi brings with him experience that

[00:02:04] is rich to say the least and I don't want to get into bio data as yeah I don't believe

[00:02:09] the gentleman sitting here with me need specific and long introductions to my right is

[00:02:15] another gentleman whom we've known for a lifetime.

[00:02:18] I won't say lifetime and a half.

[00:02:20] You know Rajeev Rajah who's spent time in advertising now spending time in music insisted

[00:02:27] that I'm not in advertising.

[00:02:29] I am in music now so here you Rajeev also a wonderful musician of floutist and now of

[00:02:36] course spreading the musical word into logos and of more goes to be Rajeevish and

[00:02:45] my expression to my immediate left another dear dear friend from way back when he's only

[00:02:50] 21 years of age don't let me give you the wrong impression 22 22 22 let's be Lewis who's

[00:02:58] again spent a brilliant lifetime in music has done stuff in the world of music that people

[00:03:04] talk about passionately to date before we rolled cameras I could hear the two gentlemen

[00:03:11] on my left recounting songs done what a couple of decades ago Leslie comes with a rich

[00:03:16] rich history and it continues as we speak and of course to my extreme left is Rahul who

[00:03:22] really brings down you know the the geriatric age in this room he's a young man all of 13

[00:03:28] years well 12 12 there you go there you go but Rahul himself is honestly on a fantastic

[00:03:38] path in the world of music jam room producing music a musician himself you know providing facilities

[00:03:46] and indeed creating it. Rahul is a very precious part of the forum today as are the other three

[00:03:52] I'm going to interject once in a while and make sure that there is an honest and a fruitful debate

[00:03:59] not just for us in the room but for people who will tune in both audio and visually to our

[00:04:04] podcast as we go along so so welcome all I'm going to start off by maybe rolling back

[00:04:09] near as very quickly umby I'm looking at you specifically because you've had a glorious career

[00:04:15] and continue to both by way of your advertising career by way of your education career now

[00:04:21] educating career as also your book writing we had you know back in the 80s 90s maybe late 90s

[00:04:28] early 2000s as well like what people call a glorious era in advertising I want you to very quickly

[00:04:34] talk about it and in your opinion honest opinion tell us about what it was then what it is now

[00:04:42] going up going down what do you believe and I also want to say that if you feel you want to

[00:04:47] interject and disagree or agree hey I sound like I'm propagating trouble here but if you agree as

[00:04:55] feel free to kind of you know join in and so on be yours okay so you know you cast me

[00:05:01] in my near and worthwhile best so let me admit I started my career in advertising before probably

[00:05:09] anyone in the audience was born in 1979 yeah I started my I started my I started my I started

[00:05:21] in 1979 I was a young account executive fresh out of a B school working in a hot creative agency

[00:05:27] called Redefusion and I had the opportunity working with Arun Kale and Kamalesh Pandey and going

[00:05:35] and recording jingles in the famous western outdoor with Louis Banks remember doing a series

[00:05:41] of six jingle based ads for Apella Cadbury Apella I don't know brand has come and gone but the

[00:05:48] campaign actually won the campaign of the year award that time that was a wonderful I mean

[00:05:54] Redefusion used to do a lot of non musical ads as well a lot of dialogue based ad because you know

[00:06:00] combination is very good at writing dialogues stuff but those are great days of music because every

[00:06:05] all those great ads both 70s and 80s just think back you know growing up watching ads on

[00:06:13] you know cinema halls I don't know how many if you remember Usha Outhu Pius to sing come

[00:06:18] alive to the taste of Nescafe and you know in Neswati theatre you watch the Nescafe ad and you

[00:06:24] listen to her music it's and of course Karen Lunal cavoting under a waterfall with the la la la la

[00:06:31] la what what okay that that ad one couldn't really do anything but watch Karen and appreciate her

[00:06:38] that generally happened I think with Karen being in it of the music music so that's an original

[00:06:50] far commercial yes but the tune is amazing because it just used to get us you'd be humming that

[00:06:59] but you're watching Karen yeah exactly and of course I like his written story about how they were

[00:07:04] shooting this ad in the waterfall and Karen had to be given continuously fed a lot of rum or

[00:07:09] or any brandy or something to keep her warm but you know so and then little later of course highly

[00:07:16] memorable ad I think all of you would have probably seen remember Hamar Abhajaj you know nothing

[00:07:22] as little thing as that one that still stays in public memory Hamar Abhajaj those are the 80s

[00:07:29] and then now we come to early 90s whether I had moved and I'm going to advertising with Ulka

[00:07:35] and then we did the Dutkham as you and I think when you have probably grew up

[00:07:40] drinking milk to the tune of you know so thinking back I'm of course I'm looking at past with

[00:07:45] you know kind of pink colored lenses to say what a glorious tradition we've had

[00:07:51] of using music in advertising right and I remember I think 96 or 97 Alex here was a young

[00:08:00] account executive in our agency and I got one of the young guys to look at ads

[00:08:05] and say how many types of music have been used in Indian advertising

[00:08:10] and we had a count of something like 18 you know western classical we also use western

[00:08:15] classical you know many of our ads jazz right we used Kodo drums the Japanese drum which we all

[00:08:22] of us saw them playing during the Japanese World Cup right the so called the Kodo drums right

[00:08:28] Ranjit Baro did the music for Kunal Kapoor of course ball music was used by when we call you know

[00:08:36] Carnatic music was used of course we used what is known as Gregorian chant for ad for

[00:08:43] Volta's Michael Entry you know you know he knows a Kavina he knows a Kavina so I'm glad you kept

[00:08:54] your day job absolutely I'm watching Raji Veer what's the word no one's

[00:09:03] maybe there will be bloodshed I will be the first

[00:09:06] you'll get murdered so we've used you know some there's some Indian ads have used variety of music

[00:09:15] and we in advertising used to enjoy going and sitting with music directors getting music done I mean

[00:09:21] I've written about one of my books young music director was making this jingle for me

[00:09:27] for a small brand in Chennai the year was 92 and 93 and we were waiting for the singer to come

[00:09:38] and we were sitting in his house there was a little swing both were sitting on the swing

[00:09:42] and you know swinging away and then he said sir do you think there is a career in music in India sir

[00:09:51] that's it yeah were you asking were you asking I'm talking 90 to the real story I've written it so

[00:09:57] and he's not contradicted so which it happened

[00:10:01] sir were you asking sir things are tough sir

[00:10:05] so I said are you're highly talented you know you will do well you know I mean you're doing

[00:10:10] add jingles tomorrow today tomorrow you'll do something better don't give up you are India's growing

[00:10:15] and again one of those amaradeesh agi baghadeh all that kind of stuff to him in Tamil of course

[00:10:20] and we recorded the jingle and I said thank you very much and I left it turns out that young man

[00:10:26] whom I used to call Dilip is today known as ARreema right I'm not joking it really happened right

[00:10:33] so we in advertising used to love interacting with music directors going and spending time with

[00:10:39] them wiping with them and occasionally stopping them from leaving us and going to Australia

[00:10:46] this is advertising we loved it I mean there was nothing like you know talk to someone we'll talk

[00:10:53] to someone we'll talk to someone and we get one jingle on a mobile phone and listen to it no

[00:10:57] we were there I'm going to interject there thank you Ambi let me you represented the musician side of it

[00:11:05] like Ambi was talking about AR and give us your version of your life as a musician back then maybe

[00:11:12] the same era and then of course we'll move on I think what Ambi so far said is absolutely correct I

[00:11:17] mean even remand being Dilip see all the main ads were happening out of Bombay so he was also a

[00:11:23] fanboy man so when I went to Chennai called me to his house to his studio he wanted to show me

[00:11:30] stuff but he's amazingly talented he was then he still is I mean so I'm just saying it's not like

[00:11:35] something is developed along the way at the same time so for me I find that's not happening nowadays

[00:11:42] is what we were doing then we are apprenticed under somebody you worked under someone and not for

[00:11:48] one month and two months I spent four years with Louis Banks as a apprentice so our

[00:11:52] amara bhaja has yet everything I was there do this well right do this my own commercial so I

[00:11:58] was the composer for that that's after Louis but amara bhaja was when I was with Louis it had

[00:12:03] been four years from 1984 five six three two commercials are doing maybe three sometimes yeah

[00:12:12] and carrying your own gear and plugging your own and do we stuff is that how you started your Swiss

[00:12:17] account and stuff I lost the number actually so I've lost that account now I don't know where it is

[00:12:22] somebody finds it is so from my perspective I can see what remand was saying is it it's tough

[00:12:27] we want to do music but you can't so when I started off I was more like when I came from Mount

[00:12:35] Abu I was in the boarding school they came here and you nobody so somebody from my building introduced

[00:12:40] me to this is a fisherman club in colony in maim so there was an orchestra

[00:12:46] so I got to play I just wanted to play so somebody got me in there and I was playing on the road

[00:12:51] for gunpatthi you know on the bundle I was standing there and go miss him

[00:12:57] and I'm playing Gidav by tea that ought to be Hendrix but this guy is mad but that's a great visual

[00:13:03] right Hendrix playing at maim on the beach yeah gunpatthi wonder yeah no I just played

[00:13:08] tuk tuk tuk yeah Umbar Gau, Sat Parti, Palkar station I mean I just played it everywhere so

[00:13:15] I think that helped me to get the kind of understand the Indian vibe of Amjadda but as a musician

[00:13:23] you wanted to get ahead and then I met it is at that time that I made Andrew who was from my class

[00:13:30] and Andrew Tussuzan he was chosen as Joseph in a play in band and this Andrian Fair was

[00:13:38] happy and he came up to me and said hey does he do you want to play in our you know play guitar

[00:13:42] and I play we're looking for a guitar player and it started by another journey started and this guy was

[00:13:49] one of the young cast in Joseph and we've known Andrew in 1978 and we've been doing this thing forever

[00:13:58] so as a musician you know you just want to do music so I used to play for guzzles I used to play

[00:14:04] for all-India radio I used to play Dool Darshan I mean interestingly once I got to check for 200 bucks

[00:14:10] from Dool Darshan and I said man this so Ashok Patki was the music director and I see such a sweet guy

[00:14:16] because I would have got 100 bucks 50 bucks to come and play so next recording at Ashok Thank you very

[00:14:24] much so yes me how much did you get paid I said 200 you okay okay so what happened my check came

[00:14:32] to you and I was that good question so I got 200 bucks but he refused to take that money from me

[00:14:42] you know what I'm saying so it was all about music and and he wanted to play but I wanted to

[00:14:46] more and with Louis I got to do jazz and then I got it with Nandu Bhende as Savage encounters

[00:14:52] so you're doing rock and you're doing made for each other festivals from you know Ahmedabad to

[00:14:57] Calcutta Delhi so you're this traveling rock and roll band on the other side you know with Louis

[00:15:04] and Pam Crane and Ranjith Baro and Carl Peters you're doing this jazz thing which is now

[00:15:10] birdland concert and stuff like that and once I do doing Rastachap you know on the street music

[00:15:19] so having done all that you wanted to your own kind of music so when so as a guitar player I started

[00:15:25] getting called everywhere and so all the lot of the advertising work and guzzles and you know because

[00:15:31] it's light geethers Sangheethers classical there's only other beyond advertising that was the other

[00:15:36] recording there was Bollywood so my dad has been one of the biggest choreographers in Bollywood P and

[00:15:42] Raj so he's on show days are gone down KK Pandana's Yahu evening in Paris Jungry you name it

[00:15:48] in the comments like the turn of hits but so I grew up as a Bollywood kid so I was sitting with

[00:15:55] R.D. Burman's house while they're composing with Luxeficon parallel and I was the fly on the wall

[00:15:59] or they'd just tell you hey don't touch that sit quietly yes okay but I got to like see a lot of

[00:16:05] things but I didn't want to be that and my dad always thought and I want to play in a band so my

[00:16:10] dad said no you should play in films because there was nowhere else you could actually

[00:16:15] earn or you know could be a professional musician professional was in movies so everybody who

[00:16:21] learnt music whether they learned classical music they learned a while in they learned piano

[00:16:25] they went into Bollywood because that's where there was work and there was money after you

[00:16:29] learnt your craft you got somewhere to play it I mean as a there was no Phila Amonikokist

[00:16:33] or the symphony's play at that time so Bollywood was the only place so my dad wanted me to do that

[00:16:38] and I didn't want to do it and he was against it because he thought I think in our especially

[00:16:46] in the earlier days wine, women and song that goes to the band you're drinking can you talk

[00:16:53] further about this I mean you know but it was it was a standard shop if you played in a hotel

[00:17:01] band or some you were playing in a cabaret like yeah I did that too but it's a slip disc so wine

[00:17:10] women and songs my dad was worried that he'd start drinking because you know with a band means

[00:17:16] after the women you obviously going to womenize with the singer and get involved with you know

[00:17:20] it's a standard thing that's how it works and it's all about song you know it's all about music so

[00:17:26] and this is a real thing that's happened for so many musicians over the 70s 60s 70s 80s they've got

[00:17:32] involved with each other all these kind of you know whether alcohol whether it's women has not allowed

[00:17:37] these great artists to grow sometimes and my dad was like little worried he didn't want me do that

[00:17:42] but I was completely opposite I'd land up at my so I'd be playing at the Obera Hotel

[00:17:49] at the cafe Royal in those days and I'd be there at five o'clock in the evening just practicing

[00:17:54] myself I was just about the song wine had no time I was not only to it because my dad is to drink

[00:17:59] like crazy at points so he's get violent so I don't know what I have as you do wine so that's a good

[00:18:04] thing give me a good like you know women and song we can talk about right I didn't have time for

[00:18:08] touch but it's some woman found me and we believe you guys yeah but it's true I got found on a

[00:18:15] Bombay magazine cover I was playing guitar the over right and Jalal Laga decides to jump on the

[00:18:21] drum kit so the photographer takes that picture because there's a film star in that thing and that's how

[00:18:26] my first life found me what was relationship from what I understand and we'll come back to

[00:18:30] how you found your wife or she found you but you know we're talking about the relationship of music

[00:18:35] to advertising and it seems that there was a kind of a close-by between people who created the

[00:18:42] magic and people who propagated the magic or dressed it up for communication right and that's

[00:18:47] what I'm being saying see what it reminds me of stuff we are frustrated we want to do something

[00:18:52] not just the regular system stuff I don't want to just do ads I just want to play Gita and

[00:18:57] add so finally I ever playing guitar so that I could compose but nobody gave me any work for

[00:19:02] the same because you're struggling to do what you want to do no so do you believe les I'm sorry

[00:19:06] to interject but do you believe that musicians and I want Raul to jump in here as well do you believe

[00:19:11] musicians were or indeed are getting you know the raw end of the deal you know do you believe that

[00:19:19] and feel free to say it so that we can throw suggestions into the mix and just while I say

[00:19:24] that I must tell you people here that if you feel you want to contribute to this discussion

[00:19:30] feel absolutely free like I said there's a microphone doing the round so but coming back

[00:19:35] so I'm not sure about musicians getting the wrong end of the deal I think I mean there are a lot

[00:19:40] of similarities I'm just listening to the stories that Leslie was saying and I mean I think even

[00:19:44] though I mean we're probably a generation apart it's very much the same I mean you start off a

[00:19:50] practicing with somebody and it's very important because working with film it's not like working

[00:19:54] with anything else it's not like making a song you're making a piece of music for a specific media

[00:19:59] for a brand you have to know how film works you have to know what the brand wants you have to be

[00:20:04] able to communicate with people you can't just make what you want right you have to you're doing

[00:20:08] it for something its commission work and it's very important to get like a good grounding and

[00:20:12] understanding so I started working with my partner Nareem Anhu in turn started with Ram Sumpat

[00:20:19] another very famous composer right I'm sure you'll have all worked with him at some point

[00:20:23] and I think that taught me and allowed me to understand that it's not just enough to be a musician

[00:20:28] yes that's one thing but you have to think like a producer like a film composer there are so many

[00:20:33] other things that go along with it coming back to what Ambi said it was great there was a time

[00:20:38] when you used to be in the studio used to work with the person it was like an experience I hear

[00:20:43] stories from my older contemporaries who work some of the engineers about how fun it used to be

[00:20:47] in sessions and to an extent yes it is the same way although I feel like especially post-COVID

[00:20:53] people aren't coming into studios anymore I compose something I send it off somebody's listening

[00:20:58] to it on a phone and when I say come in here it on the speakers come in here it in a studio

[00:21:02] they're like no but this is how the consumer is going to react to it they're going to be listening

[00:21:05] so on the phone in some ways yes it is because the directors and all the ones you really want to

[00:21:11] get to work with are coming in there still coming in there is a dialogue I mean music can't be made

[00:21:15] in a vacuum that's my opinion I don't think anything artistic can be done in a vacuum you have to

[00:21:20] have collaborations you have to you're making the music for somebody else so they have to be involved

[00:21:25] in it and I hope you know with time things go back to going that way I can see it starting to happen

[00:21:29] again slowly slowly but I mean just to step in here one of the big joys of working in advertising

[00:21:37] is your vicariously working in in films you deal with you know music directors absolutely you

[00:21:44] deal with you know directors you go on shoots so you are kind of vicariously living in a different world

[00:21:51] and therefore I mean all of us used to take as youngsters you grow up going to shoots you look

[00:21:58] for an opportunity go and sit with the you know at the editing table I think for an opportunity go

[00:22:02] and sit with the music director when the music is being composed and add your two bits normally you're

[00:22:06] told shut up but you know but I know that I should ask you to shut up because you don't know what

[00:22:14] you do very often that you so we don't know anything about music but I feel like you know

[00:22:19] you know when you say you don't know anything about music but you feel like I believe that what

[00:22:24] you feel like is more important than doing something about music because at the end of the day I

[00:22:28] want to take this it's a piece of like it's meant for some consumption by somebody somebody you

[00:22:35] have a commission to do this when I want to do my own songs that's a very different thing

[00:22:38] then I become an independent artist I do my own songs the way I want to but if I'm working

[00:22:42] in advertising I'm working for a system that requires something out of me so no I think also

[00:22:48] I just want to go back I started maybe a decade later than I'm being when I came to Bombay

[00:22:55] you're being extreme he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like he's like

[00:23:03] you know from the few years you're like I said you're not okay but because I'm not okay so I

[00:23:11] come to Bombay in 1989 and I joined Mudra as a senior copywriter and within the first week of

[00:23:20] me coming I get a brief time I'm like overwhelmed by Bombay come from Bangalore with a insuzuki bike

[00:23:29] that's about it I get a brief for quality ice cream and my creative director at the time Walter

[00:23:37] Mendez the guy who wrote Kamalai taste of Nesca period actually briefs me and says this quality

[00:23:44] ice cream it's seen as mama and papa's brand you've got to make it younger you've got to make

[00:23:50] it for the younger generation so I was racking my brains at I said I need to create a campus

[00:23:56] lingo right so came up with this phrase go bonkers and then I presented it internally and Mr.

[00:24:06] Krishnamurti got very excited and he said I'm going to get you the best talent and Shantanu

[00:24:11] Shory walks into office I'm staying wow Shantanu Shory is here and he's going to do the film not his wife

[00:24:20] not Shantanu for me just beginning of name and Shantanu says hey this needs a jingle right so

[00:24:30] have you heard of Leslie Lewis? I was singing yeah sort of yeah I was new to Bombay right so he says

[00:24:40] okay we go to XIC we're going to meet Leslie and can you write a jingle out before we go

[00:24:47] so I wrote the jingle go bonkers go bonkers oh yeah something something quality ice cream

[00:24:53] okay now we go now talking of collaboration right this way I go and just present just give

[00:25:00] these lyrics to Leslie and Leslie sitting at the table and within an hour he comes back and says hey

[00:25:09] I've got this idea like you know Bobby McFarron kind of baseline

[00:25:14] do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do do and Kevin he sang out the entire jingle go bonkers

[00:25:22] go bonkers oh yeah done I was made I was made within a week of coming to Bombay I had this incredible

[00:25:33] jingle film shot by Shantanu Shory to the biggest hit quality ice cream took off

[00:25:38] and I had arrived in advertising.

[00:25:41] Thanks to Mr. Liss.

[00:25:43] Listen, you owe him one.

[00:25:44] You owe him one, yeah?

[00:25:46] I don't think it's thanks to be it's a collaborative.

[00:25:48] It's always a collaborative.

[00:25:49] Yeah, but it is like that, right?

[00:25:50] Okay, by the way, I charged 10% on all of you just saying,

[00:25:54] just saying, no, let's say we spoke about stuff

[00:25:58] in advertising and music in advertising

[00:26:00] and I want to ask a slightly more specific question.

[00:26:03] Now, we've seen the dude, which talks about Amol,

[00:26:06] we've seen washing powder, Nirmal, let's say,

[00:26:09] where the name of the brand or the product was put out there,

[00:26:15] you know, unabashedly.

[00:26:16] And that two limited understanding

[00:26:19] that I have brought about this recall value for the brand.

[00:26:23] I just want to your thoughts because a lot of stuff

[00:26:25] you see us today are stories that talk about the buy behind

[00:26:29] a product or a brand and they're not as direct

[00:26:32] if that's the word to use when you talk

[00:26:34] about the name of the brand.

[00:26:36] It's not necessarily used just a quick thoughts,

[00:26:39] you know, from your lawn how important was it then to use

[00:26:43] the names, you know, washing powder, Nirmas

[00:26:45] or Nirmas stuck whether you like it.

[00:26:47] Griefers as many times it can come in 30 seconds,

[00:26:49] 20 seconds just repeat that word as many times

[00:26:52] the signals great.

[00:26:52] Nirmal Nirmal Nirmal.

[00:26:54] Nirmal Nirmal.

[00:26:55] Yeah, Nirmal.

[00:26:56] That's it.

[00:26:57] You got it.

[00:26:58] No, but just transfer that vibe to today

[00:27:02] and maybe Raul you want to take this is it?

[00:27:04] I mean, I think that's very product based to be honest with you

[00:27:07] but I feel like there's a lot of my briefs

[00:27:09] I never use the product name.

[00:27:10] I mean, it's very, very rare that I do something.

[00:27:13] It's like even if I do like say a car brand

[00:27:15] I never once will you hear like Toyota Glanza

[00:27:17] or something like that.

[00:27:18] It's absurd to think about it and I think at least

[00:27:21] with taste changing or at least consumers

[00:27:23] I mean people want music.

[00:27:25] I think the format of the jingle is somewhat different today.

[00:27:28] I mean, you can call any piece of music on an ad jingle

[00:27:31] but I mean in my mind a jingle is Nirmal.

[00:27:34] It's dude, it's all those things.

[00:27:36] I got lyrics in it.

[00:27:36] It's got lyrics and then definitely says something about the brand name.

[00:27:40] Today I think that's perceived as a little conny

[00:27:42] you know disrespect to the people who create those things

[00:27:44] because taste have changed times of change.

[00:27:46] And also I know the other problem.

[00:27:48] How is that?

[00:27:49] It becomes uncool to use a brand name, you know?

[00:27:53] And therefore most credit directors

[00:27:56] will cut dead writing,

[00:27:58] I'm a Arab bhajaj, brand name and then you can't write anything better.

[00:28:02] Even then sometimes you know

[00:28:05] the tracks do this great track for Docomo

[00:28:09] which was done by you know

[00:28:13] the Ramcomo brand.

[00:28:15] Docomo suddenly it really broke through.

[00:28:18] It just broke through that very campaign went through the roof

[00:28:21] and the brand did very well as long as it lasted

[00:28:23] but he broke the, he said we will put this brand name

[00:28:27] in a musical tune.

[00:28:29] True.

[00:28:30] But you know same way.

[00:28:31] It's uncool today, you go and tell someone

[00:28:33] repeating the brand name three-four and all.

[00:28:35] But you know that's the exception.

[00:28:37] Same time period, same composer,

[00:28:39] the Airtel Jingle you know,

[00:28:40] Aj, Harif Red, Zaururi Hothayah.

[00:28:43] That tagline stuck and he wrote it

[00:28:45] but that's more of a song.

[00:28:47] I mean there's nothing now,

[00:28:48] mentions the brand.

[00:28:49] You know in the older days

[00:28:51] a lot of music came on radio.

[00:28:53] So there was the visual.

[00:28:55] So you had to have a hook line or something

[00:28:57] that you with the brand name.

[00:28:58] Like a gold smart or a link to the terms up,

[00:29:00] drink, drink, drink.

[00:29:01] That guy's going on the station and you hear this thing

[00:29:03] and you know it's the guys that are in closing.

[00:29:05] What he was saying is you have more repeatedly

[00:29:07] and you said now it's a radio jingle.

[00:29:09] So now it's become like a visual text

[00:29:11] that every brand has on in their ad word.

[00:29:14] So you don't need to repeatedly say it in the audio.

[00:29:16] You know what I mean?

[00:29:17] Because you have that visual connect now.

[00:29:19] Correct.

[00:29:20] And I'm saying even now that the video came in

[00:29:22] when ads started happening,

[00:29:23] it was still shot by camera.

[00:29:26] Somebody who had you know,

[00:29:27] erotic jingle the panel,

[00:29:29] the short breakdown,

[00:29:31] things were worked out and then it was shot accordingly

[00:29:33] and there was a tune that carried that thing.

[00:29:36] Ever since computer graphics have come in,

[00:29:38] it's a complete change.

[00:29:40] You don't need that song.

[00:29:41] It keeps disturbing this.

[00:29:42] It's so busy that you just want to vibe.

[00:29:46] So like what he's saying today is

[00:29:47] I would just do a vibe maybe the feel of it

[00:29:50] to let that film go through.

[00:29:52] No, I think what Leslie's saying is see

[00:29:54] it was basically a hangover of the radio era

[00:29:57] that got into early advertising.

[00:30:00] So radio was all about jingles.

[00:30:02] You had to have lyrics about the product.

[00:30:05] It washes better, it cleans better, it lights better,

[00:30:07] et cetera, all sun.

[00:30:09] That got into the earlier advertising jingles, et cetera.

[00:30:14] But even those days if you look at,

[00:30:16] okay there was Hamara Bajad,

[00:30:17] there was Washington,

[00:30:18] and Irma with the brand name built in.

[00:30:20] But if you go to Titan.

[00:30:24] Ta-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra-ra.

[00:30:27] No brand name.

[00:30:28] Yeah, Mr. Omnibani.

[00:30:30] Very strong, so right?

[00:30:32] Ting, ting, ting, ting.

[00:30:34] That was at 8.30 in the morning.

[00:30:37] Yeah, no brand name.

[00:30:38] But again, so the part of sound I think was there.

[00:30:42] I'm going to use an analogy actually

[00:30:44] to throw another point for this type of thing.

[00:30:47] You know, we talk about Hindi films.

[00:30:49] No Hindi film or no really complete

[00:30:52] without a lot of music slash songs and whatever.

[00:30:56] And I come from a time when in the Hindi films,

[00:30:59] it was an Amitabh song or a Vinod Karna song

[00:31:02] or a Rishi Kapoor song.

[00:31:04] Most often people didn't even know who the singer was

[00:31:07] or who the music director was in the film.

[00:31:09] It was so skewed towards the visual.

[00:31:12] I'm using the same analogy in the scene here

[00:31:16] with artists, both singers, creators, versus,

[00:31:21] let's say the advertising slash brand representatives.

[00:31:26] How can we kind of artist I know and I'd like to talk about this?

[00:31:31] I know that there is a vibe.

[00:31:32] But definitely there are artists feel

[00:31:34] kind of whether it is under recognized, underpaid

[00:31:39] and various other complaints that they have happening today.

[00:31:43] Happens then, happens today.

[00:31:44] Then it was more acceptable today.

[00:31:46] It wasn't and I want to discuss that because I think today,

[00:31:51] the time is right for us to actually give people

[00:31:53] their pride of place.

[00:31:55] It is respectable which side of the team they represent.

[00:31:59] Rahul, I'm going to lean on you for this one.

[00:32:01] Straight up, I think artists today,

[00:32:03] the biggest difference is that you have a mouthpiece

[00:32:06] in your pocket.

[00:32:07] Like creativity is democratized.

[00:32:09] Everybody in this room is a creator.

[00:32:10] You can just whip out your phone, put a YouTube video

[00:32:12] and if you have something interesting to say or sing,

[00:32:16] you have an audience built in right there.

[00:32:18] And I think a lot of brands are taking that,

[00:32:20] I mean at least the smart artists are the ones

[00:32:22] who have one eye on that side of it know how

[00:32:25] to monetize their own brand

[00:32:27] and know how to use their brand

[00:32:29] to then help sell other things.

[00:32:31] I mean for lack of a better word,

[00:32:33] I think you're going to see more and more of that.

[00:32:35] I think smartphone penetration is huge

[00:32:38] in like another five or six years.

[00:32:39] Everybody's going to have a phone.

[00:32:40] You could take a phone as it is.

[00:32:42] Sorry, you were talking about QR codes right?

[00:32:44] About artists and what they put out.

[00:32:46] And look, I mean all I can say is that

[00:32:49] look in the past you had like one or two radio

[00:32:52] and television right and you have

[00:32:54] force fed the message through those two things.

[00:32:56] There was no internet.

[00:32:57] There's nothing today.

[00:32:58] You wake up.

[00:32:59] You are bombarded with information from the moment

[00:33:01] you get up to the moment you sleep

[00:33:02] you can choose what entertainment you want

[00:33:04] whenever you want it.

[00:33:05] So you're competing with 10,000 other things

[00:33:08] for attention to try and keep something there right.

[00:33:11] Now a song definitely has value.

[00:33:14] It's just like Rajeev said,

[00:33:15] you remember the tink tink tink

[00:33:16] you remember the tunes,

[00:33:17] you remember something about it.

[00:33:18] And I think a song lives in your mind for a lot longer

[00:33:21] than a lot of other things possibly can right?

[00:33:24] I mean I feel there are so many times

[00:33:26] when we do a commercial,

[00:33:27] we still do songs for commercial.

[00:33:29] We might not have the brand name,

[00:33:30] we might not call them a jingle,

[00:33:31] but we do a ton of songs and very often

[00:33:34] I mean I have a like I say I put a real page up

[00:33:36] of my YouTube on YouTube of my work.

[00:33:39] Now millions of people who write release the song,

[00:33:41] release the song we want a full song.

[00:33:44] And if brands take notice of that

[00:33:45] it's very easy then for them to come to an artist

[00:33:47] or come to me a composer and say,

[00:33:49] hey you know this is doing really well for us

[00:33:51] we'd like you to create a two minute song

[00:33:52] we'll put it up on Spotify,

[00:33:54] we'll put it up on YouTube

[00:33:55] and we'll tag the ad,

[00:33:57] say it does really well put a cue

[00:33:58] I mean QR code is just an example

[00:34:01] because every phone has a scanner right?

[00:34:02] Here's a link to the full song.

[00:34:04] The brand can live in the memory of the whatever the song

[00:34:07] it takes a life of its own then

[00:34:08] it'll be allowed to just be more than the five,

[00:34:12] 10, 30 seconds if you get to see it right?

[00:34:15] The speaking of listening to the full song again

[00:34:17] this is an open-ended question.

[00:34:19] I mean our attention spans are tightening

[00:34:22] and tightening and tightening

[00:34:23] I mean today like you rightly said

[00:34:25] there are various options beyond the television

[00:34:28] and the radio thanks to digital and its invasion

[00:34:31] in our lives and I say this happily.

[00:34:33] Having said that,

[00:34:34] I mean you've got you know OTT platforms

[00:34:36] where you can skip ads

[00:34:38] even on television you know

[00:34:40] people hoped that they could skip ads.

[00:34:42] I mean why is this happening?

[00:34:44] If ads as we claim relevant are enjoyable,

[00:34:49] useful all be it from a brand perspective

[00:34:52] is it that consumer tastes are changing or consumption

[00:34:56] patterns are changing so radically

[00:34:58] or is it that we're not really catering

[00:35:02] to the consumer's taste?

[00:35:03] It's an open-ended like I said question

[00:35:06] but I'd like to spend a little time

[00:35:07] just getting your thoughts on it.

[00:35:08] First of all I don't think anybody finds ads enjoyable

[00:35:10] except for the people who work in them

[00:35:12] I think most people find them irritating

[00:35:14] but it's just a music.

[00:35:17] It's like it's low end language.

[00:35:19] No no no no

[00:35:20] Let me open it.

[00:35:23] Okay.

[00:35:24] No.

[00:35:25] So tap tap tap.

[00:35:26] Yeah.

[00:35:27] I'm writing words and it's going on.

[00:35:29] I'm writing words and it's going on.

[00:35:31] I mean let me first honest confession

[00:35:33] I am not working in any advertising agency today.

[00:35:36] I've not been working in advertising

[00:35:38] for six years.

[00:35:39] It's going to be seven years in March.

[00:35:41] But I worked in advertising

[00:35:42] at my 40 year career

[00:35:44] I was in advertising for probably 30 years

[00:35:46] out of the 40 years.

[00:35:47] It's fashionable to say that people hate advertising

[00:35:53] et cetera et cetera

[00:35:54] it's fashionable to say that

[00:35:56] but unlike the US

[00:35:59] I think in India

[00:36:00] fortunately for people like Rajeev,

[00:36:02] people like Leslie

[00:36:03] we have had very enjoyable advertising.

[00:36:06] In fact a lot of ads used to be

[00:36:10] and I still believe they still are

[00:36:13] very enjoyable because of the music

[00:36:15] because of the casting

[00:36:16] because of the acting

[00:36:18] because the attention to detail.

[00:36:19] I mean I still play that

[00:36:21] it didn't have music in it

[00:36:23] but I still play the Mudra's

[00:36:24] you know Dara Kamarsho

[00:36:26] right?

[00:36:27] in my classes when I teach

[00:36:28] it always brings the house down

[00:36:30] all I have to say is

[00:36:31] I've got you know when I talk about Manawa

[00:36:33] Mewd Noudalbuk

[00:36:34] and I say I've got one film

[00:36:36] where I think is the best film

[00:36:38] probably ever made in India

[00:36:39] featuring a child

[00:36:41] any guess

[00:36:42] and someone in the class

[00:36:43] who's probably never

[00:36:44] was not even born with the ad was made

[00:36:46] because the ad was made 26 years ago

[00:36:48] Dara

[00:36:49] he said what's your grade of Dara?

[00:36:50] Jalebi

[00:36:51] right

[00:36:52] and you know

[00:36:53] that Jalebi was actually thought

[00:36:55] of during the shoot by white light

[00:36:57] the original script

[00:36:58] was Kachori

[00:36:59] so the original script said Kachori

[00:37:04] and they changed it to

[00:37:05] right

[00:37:06] this guy

[00:37:07] Jagdish Acharya

[00:37:07] came and told me that

[00:37:08] Jagdish came and told me

[00:37:11] so you're in my life

[00:37:13] it was at that point

[00:37:14] yeah

[00:37:15] so it was actually

[00:37:16] I think Nometa

[00:37:17] which ended

[00:37:18] so they used to put so much

[00:37:20] attention love into every ad

[00:37:23] they made

[00:37:24] and actually the ads are better

[00:37:26] than the programming

[00:37:29] and so people used to love

[00:37:31] advertising

[00:37:32] that's true

[00:37:33] I hope and pray

[00:37:35] they still like the advertising

[00:37:37] there's exceptions

[00:37:38] like I think everybody

[00:37:39] would know

[00:37:40] the credit commercials

[00:37:41] that are really popular right now

[00:37:42] I don't think

[00:37:43] anybody skips a credit commercial

[00:37:44] even if you've seen it seven or eight times

[00:37:46] you watch it

[00:37:47] those are really good

[00:37:48] I mean, there are always going to be

[00:37:49] exceptions

[00:37:50] to any role

[00:37:51] just to come in

[00:37:52] unfortunately

[00:37:54] in the US

[00:37:55] advertising is

[00:37:56] hated

[00:37:57] because a lot of US advertising

[00:37:59] is by this today

[00:38:00] by this today

[00:38:01] whereas we

[00:38:03] fortunately

[00:38:04] because of our filmy heritage

[00:38:06] the kind of people

[00:38:07] who came

[00:38:08] advertising those days

[00:38:09] and later

[00:38:10] are advertising

[00:38:11] always a lot

[00:38:12] enjoyable

[00:38:13] again, I'm biased

[00:38:14] a lot of enjoyable

[00:38:15] it certainly was

[00:38:16] absolutely

[00:38:17] but if I can just add to this

[00:38:21] talking of short attention

[00:38:23] spans

[00:38:25] now the truth is

[00:38:27] that if you're looking

[00:38:28] at the future

[00:38:29] there is a clear trend here

[00:38:32] now just to give you an example

[00:38:34] if the television in my house

[00:38:36] cons out

[00:38:38] tomorrow

[00:38:40] I think I'll probably be the only guy

[00:38:42] who's saying hey man

[00:38:43] I can't watch football on the big screen

[00:38:45] or cricket on the big screen

[00:38:47] my kids forget it

[00:38:50] they're not worried

[00:38:52] if the television screen

[00:38:54] no longer works

[00:38:55] because they're consuming

[00:38:57] content today

[00:38:58] including television

[00:38:59] on their phones

[00:39:01] or on their laptops

[00:39:03] so on right

[00:39:04] so therefore

[00:39:05] when you're consuming content

[00:39:07] in such a small format

[00:39:09] medium it's much more intimate

[00:39:11] and therefore

[00:39:13] in that medium

[00:39:14] ads come through as

[00:39:15] intrusive

[00:39:16] okay

[00:39:17] we all know

[00:39:18] we are watching something

[00:39:19] on Facebook

[00:39:20] shit

[00:39:21] bloody ad comes in

[00:39:23] you're watching something

[00:39:24] on YouTube

[00:39:25] shit

[00:39:26] ad comes in

[00:39:27] on television

[00:39:28] it's okay

[00:39:29] because you're sitting at home

[00:39:30] you poured yourself a drink

[00:39:32] there's an ad break

[00:39:33] it's fine

[00:39:34] that was the earlier consumption pattern

[00:39:36] but today

[00:39:37] that's not the consumption pattern

[00:39:39] the trend rather

[00:39:41] so therefore

[00:39:43] the whole thing is

[00:39:45] brands are also realizing

[00:39:47] they cannot be as

[00:39:48] in your face

[00:39:49] as they were

[00:39:50] in the earlier era

[00:39:51] so it is not

[00:39:53] yes

[00:39:54] you guys are all

[00:39:55] sitting in Bantra

[00:39:56] recording the show

[00:39:57] and you think the whole world

[00:39:58] whole of India is watching

[00:39:59] things only on mobile phones

[00:40:01] I'm sorry

[00:40:02] well the whole of India

[00:40:03] 20% of advertising still happens

[00:40:05] on TV

[00:40:06] and it happens on TV

[00:40:07] because you know

[00:40:08] clients are not

[00:40:09] true

[00:40:10] because it works

[00:40:12] television works

[00:40:13] television is more credible

[00:40:15] I mean

[00:40:16] it's more expensive

[00:40:17] more television is

[00:40:18] you know

[00:40:19] YouTube is

[00:40:20] for a reason

[00:40:21] YouTube was

[00:40:22] charging too much

[00:40:23] so you know

[00:40:24] whatever CPM rates

[00:40:25] were 200 rupees

[00:40:26] so advertising

[00:40:28] there's still a lot of

[00:40:29] advertising happening on TV

[00:40:30] and a lot of it is still

[00:40:32] enjoyable

[00:40:33] I'm again biased

[00:40:34] so it's easy for us to sit here

[00:40:36] and say

[00:40:37] oh everyone is

[00:40:38] no one is watching TV

[00:40:39] everyone's

[00:40:40] consumer mobile

[00:40:41] blah blah

[00:40:42] it's true

[00:40:43] your children

[00:40:44] highly educated

[00:40:45] you know

[00:40:46] so they're watching on

[00:40:47] I'm sorry

[00:40:48] my

[00:40:50] that's not it

[00:40:51] I'm not

[00:40:52] nobody

[00:40:53] I see in bomb-based

[00:40:54] watching television

[00:40:55] now

[00:40:56] I'll take it to a friend

[00:40:58] I'll take it to a friend's house

[00:40:59] yeah

[00:41:00] you know

[00:41:01] creative director

[00:41:02] genius

[00:41:03] retired

[00:41:04] but his TV is on

[00:41:05] all the time in his house

[00:41:06] I keep getting irritated

[00:41:07] I go

[00:41:08] no I don't

[00:41:09] come on

[00:41:10] then he's not

[00:41:11] suddenly

[00:41:12] he's not watching the

[00:41:13] programming

[00:41:14] he's watching

[00:41:15] they had

[00:41:16] sorry I think this

[00:41:17] yeah

[00:41:18] that's all

[00:41:19] yeah

[00:41:20] hello gentlemen

[00:41:21] my name is Veda

[00:41:22] so my question

[00:41:23] actually

[00:41:24] and firstly can I just say

[00:41:25] I attest to what

[00:41:26] we were saying about advertising

[00:41:28] in the US

[00:41:29] I worked as a copywriter

[00:41:30] there for four years

[00:41:31] and I feel that

[00:41:32] he adds

[00:41:33] there are more focused

[00:41:34] on the writing than

[00:41:35] the music

[00:41:36] because a lot of the

[00:41:37] jingles are based

[00:41:38] on the copywriting

[00:41:39] there

[00:41:40] and secondly

[00:41:41] you know

[00:41:42] something that Rajiv said

[00:41:43] which is that

[00:41:44] you know

[00:41:45] you too

[00:41:46] an ad comes up

[00:41:47] or Spotify

[00:41:48] but that is

[00:41:50] and others

[00:41:51] and they're

[00:41:52] but so

[00:41:54] they're

[00:41:55] to skip ads or even

[00:41:56] in short

[00:41:57] that ads don't play

[00:41:59] by paying into their

[00:42:00] subscription program

[00:42:01] and do you feel that

[00:42:03] now there are organizations

[00:42:05] like Spotify and YouTube

[00:42:06] that are actively trying

[00:42:08] to encourage people

[00:42:09] to avoid advertising

[00:42:10] by just showing out a little

[00:42:11] money

[00:42:12] and how has that affected

[00:42:13] the advertising industry

[00:42:14] at large

[00:42:15] that's

[00:42:16] that stuff on TV you're going to watch it.

[00:42:18] Or you're just gonna have a wait,

[00:42:20] but with the skip ad,

[00:42:22] like you said, they're trying to get you to subscribe

[00:42:24] and it's not about the advertising.

[00:42:26] In fact, they want to irritate you with the advertising.

[00:42:28] Other problem with the skip ad is

[00:42:30] they allow you to run five seconds of ads

[00:42:34] or charging you for it.

[00:42:36] As a result all the managers in brand management

[00:42:38] and I can't execute it figured out,

[00:42:40] your ad has to be in first five seconds

[00:42:43] a full message ball though, correct?

[00:42:44] Because after that the customer's gonna skip.

[00:42:46] So if your whole messaging is compressed

[00:42:49] to four and a half seconds,

[00:42:50] where is the time for emotion?

[00:42:52] Where is the time for music?

[00:42:54] Where's the time for anything?

[00:42:55] In fact the music.

[00:42:56] So it's terrible, right?

[00:42:58] So I'm okay, I think you're making a very right point.

[00:43:01] So you look spotify when YouTube's belief is

[00:43:06] we want paid customers who will not be delivered ads

[00:43:10] and therefore I'm gonna get customers

[00:43:12] to actually skip ads and I tell them you can skip ads,

[00:43:17] you have to just pay me 35 rupees a month, right?

[00:43:20] And done.

[00:43:21] So probably that's also happening

[00:43:23] but it's also had a very bad effect on advertising.

[00:43:26] Most ads today, I mean, for example,

[00:43:29] we made the Naukri commercials.

[00:43:31] Some of you may remember, you know,

[00:43:32] Hari Sado, you know, H.F. Hitler, A.R.G.A.

[00:43:35] That kind of an ad,

[00:43:37] the brand name appears in the 25th second

[00:43:39] and it appears for two seconds.

[00:43:41] First 24 seconds, there's no brand name.

[00:43:44] Now will I be able to even think of running it on YouTube?

[00:43:46] I will not.

[00:43:47] So the first five seconds make some money.

[00:43:49] You know, sir, ring, ring, ring, and then the ad starts, right?

[00:43:53] Before that I've delivered ring before you skip ring,

[00:43:56] ring, so that's having a negative effect on advertising.

[00:44:00] Okay, so tragedy.

[00:44:01] Sorry, yeah one more question.

[00:44:02] And then we come to brand name.

[00:44:04] Hi, I'm Chinmay.

[00:44:05] Ad probably disagree with the notion

[00:44:07] that YouTube doesn't like ads.

[00:44:09] I mean, they make several billions of dollars a year on ads.

[00:44:13] I think what they're basically,

[00:44:15] yeah, I mean, they make billion businesses advertising.

[00:44:17] So I think what they're trying to do

[00:44:20] is really optimize ads so that someone

[00:44:21] who doesn't want to see an ad will skip it

[00:44:24] but someone who does want to see it,

[00:44:25] therefore is being served a far more highly targeted

[00:44:29] and so I would probably just kind of...

[00:44:31] No, sir, you have a valid point there,

[00:44:33] but...

[00:44:34] Does it trend?

[00:44:35] Yes, other events or changes

[00:44:39] is really what we want to get to know a little bit more of.

[00:44:43] Of speaking off which, I wanna come to you Rajiv, brand music,

[00:44:48] where you're integrating music with logos with the brand.

[00:44:52] Give us the thought behind why

[00:44:55] you're investing time, effort

[00:44:59] and all of your equity.

[00:45:00] Let us quickly know what the story is,

[00:45:02] what your belief is, both behind your spending time and effort

[00:45:05] as also your vision for it.

[00:45:08] No, I think it's linked to a lot of things we spoke about.

[00:45:10] And if you did any business from this group?

[00:45:12] Yes, I'm carrying my business cards.

[00:45:14] You know, 10, 11 years back

[00:45:17] I was National Creative Director at DDB Moodra

[00:45:20] and working on Volkswagen, great brand,

[00:45:23] we did doing great work

[00:45:25] but I was playing music all my life.

[00:45:27] I was a musician before I got into advertising.

[00:45:30] So I don't, but I had a very big concert at the NCPA

[00:45:33] with some seriously happening musicians

[00:45:37] and I found that I wasn't able to give enough time

[00:45:41] for my rehearsed practice every day, my rears.

[00:45:44] And as a result, I was actually not able to come up to the mark

[00:45:48] that I had wanted to for that concert.

[00:45:51] You know the moment of awakening

[00:45:52] and I decided that day that I'm gonna quit advertising

[00:45:57] and I'm gonna spend the rest of my ride around music.

[00:46:00] Now I couldn't just take the flute and go with my band

[00:46:03] and I play in the jazz and fusion space,

[00:46:05] there's no money in it.

[00:46:06] Okay?

[00:46:07] That is supporting the family.

[00:46:09] So I spoke to the family and said,

[00:46:11] I'm gonna quit but the whole,

[00:46:14] I was racking my brains.

[00:46:15] How do I monetize my passion?

[00:46:17] So I worked with brands, I've been a musician.

[00:46:20] How do I bring these two worlds together?

[00:46:22] So the easiest thing would have been to start a jingle shop

[00:46:26] right because I was also known

[00:46:28] even in advertising as a musician

[00:46:30] but even those days we realized that

[00:46:33] you know, the jingle was something of the past

[00:46:36] and the future really lay in this whole area

[00:46:40] called Sonic Branding.

[00:46:42] So what is Sonic Branding?

[00:46:43] Just as every brand has a visual identity,

[00:46:46] every brand has a logo,

[00:46:48] every brand has a set of colors that you associate with it

[00:46:51] which doesn't come randomly,

[00:46:53] it's designed according to the culture

[00:46:55] the brand is operating in the competition et cetera

[00:46:58] the category.

[00:46:59] Similarly we believe that every brand needs

[00:47:02] to have a sonic essence which reflects

[00:47:06] its personality.

[00:47:08] So if when we look at the rich legacy of India,

[00:47:12] the Raga system what we call the Rasa's

[00:47:15] which is how do you evoke emotions

[00:47:17] through artistic expression

[00:47:19] when we studied all that we understood

[00:47:20] we could create an entire framework

[00:47:22] which would understand the DNA of a brand,

[00:47:25] the emotional essence of a brand

[00:47:27] and using the science of sound be able to express

[00:47:30] the essence of that brand.

[00:47:32] So if we are talking of a motorbike brand,

[00:47:36] you wouldn't hear a melody like

[00:47:38] Ra Ra Ra

[00:47:41] you'd probably a rock

[00:47:42] gira ra ra ra ra ra ra ra

[00:47:46] that's giving you that feeling of thrill and excitement

[00:47:48] but on the other hand, if you're talking J&J baby

[00:47:51] you're talking of a sonic palate which is

[00:47:53] hmm hmm hmm hmm

[00:47:56] you know kind of thing.

[00:47:57] So that's where the exploration started

[00:47:59] we started creating this entire framework

[00:48:01] which was to understand what a brand is all about

[00:48:05] go deep into the essence of a brand and then create the essence of its sound.

[00:48:10] We created a term we call Mogo or musical logo and surrounding it is a Mogo skip which

[00:48:16] is the sonic palette of the brand and that is really where we are.

[00:48:20] It's been 11 years and today it's an emerging, it's still an emerging field sonic branding

[00:48:27] but it's exploding.

[00:48:28] We thought we'll close down during COVID, we doubled our turnover during COVID because

[00:48:32] the digital medium has come in.

[00:48:34] Short attention spans Mogo.

[00:48:38] Less overt in your face advertising by brands, more experience brand experience.

[00:48:44] Therefore a sonic field that accompanies the brand wherever it goes and that is really

[00:48:50] the future of sound as far as I'm concerned which is why I say I'm not an advertising

[00:48:55] I'm in music for brands which is much larger than just creating a jingle or creating something

[00:49:02] for a TV spot.

[00:49:04] Now you're suddenly talking of what we call ear points, you used to say touch points.

[00:49:09] I'm visually consistent across touch points.

[00:49:10] You have to be sonically consistent across ear points.

[00:49:14] It's not only an OTS was the media term.

[00:49:18] We say today you have to talk of OTS to here.

[00:49:25] It's not just opportunity to see.

[00:49:27] These two have to come together and if you're audio and visual work in a branded way there's

[00:49:34] an exponential kind of impact of the brand.

[00:49:38] That's a really, really effective summation of our discussion today about the role of music

[00:49:44] in that broadly speaking advertising but in branding as you've just pointed out we will

[00:49:49] charge you for the advertisement that you just put out.

[00:49:52] In this sort of sponsored event.

[00:49:56] And I'm getting free booze also.

[00:50:00] The wish you liked too?

[00:50:02] Okay, I'm going to very quickly ask for final comments on you know I'm really disappointed

[00:50:10] guys that they're all sitting and smiling at each other.

[00:50:13] I really want to close with the announcement of Unreleaves Residence tomorrow morning

[00:50:18] and since that's not happening you know we might as well get to know final comments and you

[00:50:24] know close the evening we'll throw it open as well like I've said right through to all

[00:50:28] our friends sitting here because it's your opinion as was few of you who put out questions

[00:50:33] or contributions.

[00:50:35] Please feel free to do so.

[00:50:36] I can see Alex looking into the aspect so yeah as also Ajay.

[00:50:40] Have a two part question based on what you just said you know short attention spans and

[00:50:45] reels is everything right now everyone's always on reels or on YouTube shots.

[00:50:49] One is as a consumer.

[00:50:52] What do you all think that this has done to the whole music space because you know I'm in

[00:50:56] the restaurant business and literally have influences coming to me saying I need a space

[00:50:59] to do hook steps.

[00:51:01] And even musicians like the other day we were talking to some musicians who perform and

[00:51:05] they're like should you know what will happen to our songs?

[00:51:07] We're making long songs with people are only listening to 10 seconds or 15 seconds so

[00:51:10] A what do you think it's done to the whole music space and B as a brand custodian.

[00:51:16] What do you think we can capitalize on this without keeping a brand in your face because

[00:51:20] what Instagram tells us is use trending songs in your reels right.

[00:51:25] Otherwise you're add or your real won't get the reach now I'm left banking on a song

[00:51:31] on which people are already making reels for my brand or my content to get that kind of

[00:51:35] reach you know how should I what should I do what suggestions do you have for brand

[00:51:39] people in general who want to use a medium which everybody is literally looking at all

[00:51:42] the time.

[00:51:43] I can answer the second question first I think the first question we should ask Leslie

[00:51:48] to you know answer which is how musicians are going to deal with shorter formats but

[00:51:53] before they're just answer the I think for brands that's why it's important to have a

[00:51:58] sonic identity that accompanies your brand right.

[00:52:02] So a sonic identity could be as short as for master we created the global sound for master

[00:52:07] card now there is something we've created called a mini mogo which is 1.5 seconds right then

[00:52:13] there is the mogo which is 4 seconds then there is the mogo's cape which can be 20 seconds

[00:52:19] 30 seconds 50 seconds 90 seconds whatever you want so whatever the brands requirements

[00:52:24] are the same identity will present itself in different forms.

[00:52:29] So there's a consistency of sound whether it's reels or whether it's a much longer you

[00:52:33] know 3 minute video episode that they're.

[00:52:36] But I popularize that on Instagram because it's not commercial it's not a trending

[00:52:40] sound it's not yeah there's a new concept called sonic watermarking which is no brand

[00:52:46] logo only a brand mogo so nobody knows it's branded but it's going in subliminally right

[00:52:53] but it's still your brand sound okay so we love it's a lot to talk about but maybe

[00:53:00] less could answer your first question which is shorter formats and how do musicians deal

[00:53:06] with this.

[00:53:07] I can really vote myself because we started doing ads for like 90 seconds normal ad was

[00:53:15] 1 minute and then got to Spotify and 30 and 20 and 10 so what's happening is with this

[00:53:22] attention span ever since social media has come in it's reduced everybody's attention span

[00:53:28] and like you can see now it's gone to reels and you know people don't have the space.

[00:53:34] But if I want to live my life creating music for social media then I have to share everything

[00:53:40] about songs melodies like I have to do what he does 1.5 seconds 4 seconds yeah I mean

[00:53:48] that's that's that's the only music you're going to get because like you know even Brian said

[00:53:53] there's no room for music what about emotion whatever all those things so unique time

[00:53:57] so you can talk about the old songs but that's about emotion that's about you know giving

[00:54:02] it enough time to sink in so now with things like reels along I totally get it what I did is

[00:54:09] I was doing 1 ad 2 ads a day on my own and then I said I was burning out so this was before

[00:54:16] colonial cousins also and I said man I'm just I'm not like the musician me in me is getting burnt

[00:54:21] out so I'm probably the only music director and advertising you anywhere to work 3 days a week

[00:54:27] Monday Wednesday Friday you want to work with me we work Monday Wednesday Friday what's the date

[00:54:32] check the day if it's Tuesday sorry I'm busy I'm going fishing that's what I need I've been

[00:54:36] fishing or I came to your office and discussed next week's ad that we want to do but I'm not going

[00:54:42] to sit in the studio so Monday Wednesday Friday and everybody said you want to lose all your work

[00:54:46] as it doesn't matter I stuck it out 3 years I probably did my I did Monday Wednesday Friday

[00:54:53] that saved me that allowed me to retain my musicality and that's what you're hearing as colonial

[00:54:58] cousins where I could breathe but I had to do 1 minute jingles 45 seconds 30 seconds to keep

[00:55:06] myself going now tomorrow if I have to do reels I'm cool I've been doing it all my life what we

[00:55:12] be doing as ads is today's reels you know in 1 minute and 30 seconds 15 seconds but that's what

[00:55:18] I'm good at so I can do a really if you want me to do a reel but on the flip side like Brian

[00:55:24] knows I've just released my first solo independent album I'm still going with the song format it's a

[00:55:29] 3 minute 4 minute song and hopefully you like it that's what I want to do for my soul just like I

[00:55:34] took 3 days off and Monday Wednesday Friday and I took the other days off when fishing I'm saying

[00:55:39] I'm still making songs for myself for my soul but yeah if you want to do like a 20 second I'm

[00:55:44] here I do it all the time I'm doing an ad tomorrow so I'm still doing commercials but I'm doing it

[00:55:49] for the thing so you're gonna have to decide what you're doing it for if it's for social media

[00:55:55] and you want to be a complete social media convert then you're gonna have to give up your songs

[00:55:59] you have to give up your music you can't win all in life you win some you lose some see other

[00:56:03] just to add to what they've said Alex I don't have an answer to you but you need to have a brand

[00:56:09] strategy your brand strategy cannot be dictated by insta saying reels for 15 seconds you have an

[00:56:15] overall brand strategy which may include the variety of things and insta 15 second reels should

[00:56:22] be part of that rather than optimizing your entire brand strategy brand music everything to a 15

[00:56:30] second insta it can't be no that's the recipe for disaster a lot of brands are doing it because

[00:56:37] you know a lot of brand managers are mistaking activity for achievement right so you do 20 things

[00:56:47] because you know I need to do this you know messy score to goal I need to post something you know

[00:56:52] on social media on that what the hell for what does messy scoring a goal got to do with your brand

[00:56:57] so this whole media about moment marketing etc is wrong you need to decide what is my brand

[00:57:03] what am I brand stand for where does insta reels fit in and how will I use it rather than the other

[00:57:10] way that insta given a choice if you know meta wants all your money right and more right so you

[00:57:17] got to keep them out sorry this is my strategy can you guys fulfill this can you deliver a million

[00:57:23] views of this then let's talk business don't come and tell me do that you know pushpa song what

[00:57:29] the tch tch tch tch tch tch some song song is there x that kind of a thing you make now I will give

[00:57:34] you 1 million deals sorry I will not make that doesn't fit in with my smokehouse brand identity

[00:57:40] I can't do that whatever that girl dancing right became a big hit no forget the song air which

[00:57:47] many many songs someone helped me yeah yeah something some girl dancing you know so

[00:57:54] no sorry that doesn't fit in with smokehouse jelly I will not make a 15 second insta

[00:58:00] thing just because you know that is easy for you to spread sorry where does it fit in your overall

[00:58:05] brand and then tell them this is what I'll pay for it if you pay tell deliver the impression

[00:58:12] French so don't get your brand you know the problem is if you start doing all these things

[00:58:18] your brand start going left right left right and within six months you don't know what your brand

[00:58:23] if you don't know what your brand your customers doesn't know what your brand is therefore

[00:58:28] you lost and then beating off meta I mean you know I was very tempted to to dwell on that because

[00:58:36] that's going to change things even more but I do believe that that's for another discussion

[00:58:41] probably we'll take an entire evening to sit down and discuss potential or otherwise

[00:58:46] but Ajith we have time maybe for a final one and you were looking if we can have Mike given to

[00:58:51] Ajith and I'm from iDebruz studios so we are a podcast company right and we work with

[00:58:58] brand and we put together the chinwack collector something for Raju sir you spoke about your

[00:59:03] memory about writing go bonkers right one of the challenges that we have today when we talk to

[00:59:10] brands and try to get brands on to podcasting is to think long form a large part of the fraternity

[00:59:18] who writes today probably writes 30 seconds right they've been groomed or trained or been

[00:59:26] you know raised with the fact that 30 seconds may create something nice so one of the

[00:59:32] challenges that we have when we go to brands is can you write 30 episodes how does a copyrighter

[00:59:39] brings to such a challenge given that podcasting is here to stay we are in a forum like this which

[00:59:46] a podcast right easy for a brand to slip in and be part of such wonderful stories but if somebody had

[00:59:53] to if I have to go out to a brand and kind of give up this fantastic pitch right how does

[00:59:59] a copyrighter today brace himself for writing long form right and then bring in music

[01:00:07] and all those wonderful terms that you'll use sonic effects and all of that for long forms how

[01:00:13] does somebody actually is a question more for a tip so that I can go and picture to some

[01:00:21] I think you know it will have to evolve because the copyrighter steeped in his current

[01:00:27] sort of window or boss blinkers is not going to find it easy to move into the long format

[01:00:32] it's like when we got into advertising we were like the tv generation we watched tv in our homes

[01:00:38] but lot of the earlier writers could only write for radio or could only write for print right so

[01:00:45] writing for tv is different from writing for radio for example so that evolution has to happen

[01:00:50] and I would say that long format writers also as podcasts grow you will find more and more

[01:00:56] writers coming in youngsters so one tip is actually to catch youngsters who are coming out of film

[01:01:04] writing schools right where they have learned the long format writing now my younger daughter for

[01:01:12] example studied in now she's got to look up your writing she's she's back to short format but before

[01:01:18] that she couldn't write short format she could only write long format because she had written 10

[01:01:23] Bollywood scripts during her film school right so you need to find writers who are in the long format space

[01:01:31] before I want to use the word corrupted before they get you know and to think audio while you're

[01:01:38] writing no but the question yeah yeah audio exactly what was the question we're asking you want

[01:01:42] people to write podcasts for you or do you want people to write ads which run in podcasts for you

[01:01:48] brands if they have to create content using the long format for audio for audio okay so you want

[01:01:56] so you want someone to sit and write a podcast show for a client it could be affection today brands talk

[01:02:04] about creating stories right and stories that are long form so that I think what he said is right you

[01:02:09] know the other thing is I find a lot of youngsters listen to podcasts so you got to find people who

[01:02:16] listen to podcasts they understand podcasts and they can write podcasts for you you know someone who's

[01:02:22] done advertising copy or he or she's not going to be able to write a podcast podcast calls for

[01:02:29] different kind of writing right so you need to find the right person and what you said is right

[01:02:33] today again there is a problem with advertisers understanding of podcasting a lot of them are

[01:02:39] seeing podcasting as having let's say commercial message in a podcast like a commercial

[01:02:45] message in a radio show which is wrong right the involvement level of a podcast listener is 10x

[01:02:53] that of you know radio is something you're doing you know you're driving guys something else

[01:02:57] where the podcast is you're listening it much more intensely yeah which is why globally it's

[01:03:02] recognized that for example a show which Brian is doing in the middle of the Brian say this show has

[01:03:07] been brought to you by so and so and then he tells a little story about them which could be a one

[01:03:11] minute story not a 30-minute story a one-minute story that is 10 time more effective than a TV

[01:03:18] spot or a radio spot Indian clients unfortunately many of them are wanting to create those really

[01:03:26] hicc 15 minute podcasts you know I've done a few but they say no no it's full from the beginning

[01:03:32] to the end the whole podcast is about that mutual fund mutual fund mutual fund mutual

[01:03:38] sorry no one is going to listen to it but they don't understand they don't understand

[01:03:42] that in a podcast which is let's say 60 minutes you got 10 minutes or 5 minutes of advertising

[01:03:48] that advertising is gold because that person is listening to it for 60 minutes right and that

[01:03:52] Brian comes and says this message is brought to you by Microsoft blah blah blah blah blah and links

[01:03:58] Microsoft to the show that is a lot more effective I mean that you know you know it's difficult to

[01:04:06] convince clients it's a tough sell so you're in the missionary space of selling don't I mean

[01:04:11] in India television has gone through that you know I remember meeting Kalanithi Maharan in Chennai

[01:04:18] when he had launched Sun TV and we were in a party together and he was telling me sir

[01:04:23] it is very difficult sir it is very difficult to get ads six months he was struggling he's not

[01:04:29] getting ads right then he set up a different way of selling ads he started making ads for those local

[01:04:34] you know the local you know heroine you know supari makers not Bombay supari other order

[01:04:42] I said you couldn't move that kind of supari he started making all that you know to get people

[01:04:47] to come on to a television the vision is going to put out a supari on me if I don't move to the next

[01:04:53] question so how about you you know identify yourself and hello my name is Adved so I want to ask

[01:05:01] something which is about the immersive worlds and metaphors so how do we envision music and sound

[01:05:07] into the Gen Z people and how would the role of music would interact in the virtual worlds

[01:05:14] basically in the metaphors the gaming which is much more cinematic nowadays right and how could be

[01:05:21] in the Indian space could leverage that I'm tempted to say buy a house next to Snoop dogs and

[01:05:27] the best you might have to pay a premium but you know there's the closest you can get sorry that

[01:05:32] is a really bad one but actually you run about this not an answer to your question you know I think

[01:05:38] music will have to be much more experiential in the metaphors it'll have to be much more immersive

[01:05:44] less intrusive unless somebody is coming to consume the musical content then that's a different

[01:05:51] matter but if it's there say during an e-commerce experience which is virtual the music has to

[01:06:00] maybe serve an immersive role at the same time maybe a navigational role where once you've

[01:06:07] say picked a certain product there is a musical cue now if that's all related to the brand

[01:06:14] that it's coming from those are the possibilities the second possibility I think is going to be the

[01:06:19] emergence of avatars and with each avatar there's a possibility that you can create a unique sound

[01:06:26] which is identifiable for that person's avatar so the mogo yeah my mogo it's my mogo right

[01:06:35] so you just multiplied with business by exactly that's where we're going that's where exactly

[01:06:42] where we're going personal branding and how sound everyone in this room can have their own

[01:06:47] coming to personal branding by it is book is on personal branding

[01:06:52] that's the plus one all the world all the world is a

[01:06:57] book called all the world's stage it's a personal branding story so I'm plugging my bit

[01:07:02] and I've read that and I enjoyed every thank you brand

[01:07:07] how do we start with our branding should I join your firm come come

[01:07:11] how office is very question I'm serious just give me a call

[01:07:16] so the question you asked about music in the matter was I'm saying nothing's going to work

[01:07:22] from here on until it's like he said experiential because you've seen tv you've seen mobile phone

[01:07:28] you've seen DVDs you've seen rock concerts or I want to be in it that immersive space is really

[01:07:34] the future so even now whatever I'm doing live gigs it's every day I'm doing the same songs

[01:07:41] but it's a new audience you know it's always been like that from the Beatles or from whatever

[01:07:46] that's the same song but is that immersive feeling which you know you could buy a ticket for that

[01:07:52] but once it goes to meta then how are they going to get music to make you feel that you're in it

[01:07:58] there's social animals at the end of the day and you know nothing really nothing can replace

[01:08:03] or even come close at their say to the same thing right yeah yeah so I think you know American pie

[01:08:10] it on my clean was performing in I think Dublin and we were there so we went

[01:08:15] and then he said this he said look you know people ask me where do you sing the same you know

[01:08:21] Vincent and American pie you know people have heard it versions of it he said but you people

[01:08:27] are compilizing to that and he played it at the last end of the show you know so we're already

[01:08:31] going to play that when it's you're gonna play when it's you're gonna play when it's you're gonna play

[01:08:33] and then he says okay I know what you come for I'm starting and then he started right because

[01:08:38] you want to feel it you know audience when they're sitting and listening to a song with their

[01:08:43] word hundred times they're actually co-creating it with the art and you've got to sing it live

[01:08:48] if you have a recorded version then it's like listening to your you know play list or something

[01:08:53] and then you could get it at home you can hear it in your car to hear the same song by the same artist

[01:08:58] some who sing it every night every night is never perfectly the same yeah and that difference

[01:09:03] is what you experience that night where some the next guy doesn't experience the next day

[01:09:08] and also what's going to happen is there's going to be a convergence of technology

[01:09:14] or you know for example we sit in our homes and we have 5.1 and 7.1 etc now all the you know

[01:09:21] Dolby Atmos etc they're just all going to get into the virtual space so it's very soon on headphones

[01:09:26] you'll be able to get 7.1 so you have it's only exists right by not a sound or a

[01:09:32] yeah by not a sound and that is the future that that's going to be the convergence now where just through

[01:09:37] your headphones you're going to be in and sound is going to play a big role in that a lot of the artists

[01:09:43] who are creators whatever they go away because AI is going to take over it's already taken over

[01:09:47] yeah a lot of ways so you can learn how's the music you want and study it all and then you'll have

[01:09:52] no job because somebody else will be doing it I don't want to sound like you know like voice

[01:09:57] of the doom something but it's a fact and it's going there I mean today I can create a whole

[01:10:03] background film score 15 seconds but you want to hear it like maybe a 1960s chase sequence I can do

[01:10:10] it press every track every sync mark everything is in place you know let's try to miss it

[01:10:15] mission impossible I think the new hour 10 seconds that's all it takes so what happens to all

[01:10:21] the musicians who we spent like days and days creating learning your music so I'm not saying don't

[01:10:26] learn you still need to learn your art and craft but it's going in that AI space so experiential is

[01:10:33] the only way right now there's no robof me so I can still get on stage and do my thing and still

[01:10:38] be me till they find somebody to be me there was a question from the back is well yeah hi guys

[01:10:44] Alti Ayyo we were talking about Mogo's right what do you feel about legacy brands

[01:10:50] switching their Mogo's to get in with the time like for instance Namakho Tata ka Tata namak okay they

[01:10:56] try to evolve from that and when I was working on a brand like few years back they wanted to go back

[01:11:02] from the thing they evolved to to the old one because they they realized maybe they made a mistake

[01:11:08] you know letting go of that as legacy brands would you say that they should evolve or stick to what

[01:11:15] they had I can answer just from a musical point of view maybe umby can add from a rather a brand

[01:11:20] strategy point of view but look anybody all of us look if you look at us as brands I've changed

[01:11:29] the way my hair is right I'm not I don't have the same hairstyle that I had whenever the 18 years old

[01:11:35] so brands also have to evolve with the times but they don't have to suddenly change what they

[01:11:41] stand for their personality because suddenly if I start behaving like somebody I'm not then

[01:11:47] it's not going to cut through right or it's not a come through ring true so therefore

[01:11:52] even in terms of the brand sound it has to be consistent with the truth of the brand

[01:11:59] and the truth of the brand has to evolve with the times without necessarily losing your essence

[01:12:05] like we none of us have lost our essence by evolution and our growth and I don't want to say the word

[01:12:11] aging but that's but so also with brands I think it's exactly like human beings you can't suddenly

[01:12:18] change and say hey man I'm cool dude you know that one ring true for me brands can't do that sound

[01:12:24] is a big part of that so they cannot change their basic sonic essence right Ambi you want to

[01:12:30] yeah I think if you're going to go back to something which you think worked very well for you in the

[01:12:36] past you got to confirm that it's really worth going back because it's you know if your brand

[01:12:42] is moved forward like for example Tata was Deish Kanama Tata you know they had that Tata and

[01:12:48] Amaka Nama Kata Kata Tata Nama he had factory Mbani Akeya okay aroma the first advertising you know

[01:12:55] and then later they moved to Deish Kanama and now you say no I want to go back to showing my factory

[01:13:01] and where my salt is being made and I'll play this song about Nama Kata Tata Nama Kata Tata Nama

[01:13:09] Bada Fakri Mbani A Bana Hobana Nama Kata Tata Tata you think it'll still work I doubt it

[01:13:16] it's a regression you got to be 100% sure sadly they wanted to go back to

[01:13:20] yeah so you can they can test it out by my feeling is that's gonna be make the brand look even older

[01:13:26] every brand wants to look young today right so you'll end up making it's like Nirmah going

[01:13:31] in doing washing water and Nirmah washing water but sometimes you do it cleverly it works right I

[01:13:36] mean Cadbury did it recently with the flipping you know Kya Swadeh Indagika they flip the boy girl

[01:13:43] it worked nicely it was cute it worked for a period of time it may not work in the long term

[01:13:47] they bring back Zuzu Zuzu may work if they bring back that boy with the little

[01:13:53] a dog chasing the boy or whatever boy chasing dog dog chasing what whatever it is so it'll work

[01:13:59] because it's it'll come back for a period after that the brand has to move forward brand has to move

[01:14:05] either with the consumer or have to be slightly ahead of the consumer right and if you don't do

[01:14:11] that you're gonna look old you're gonna look boring brands have to be interesting even if you're

[01:14:17] salt even if it's team you gotta be interesting you don't you won't be interesting if you play

[01:14:23] in 1960s and 70s you know messages and that's my two bits okay thank you so much I do believe we've

[01:14:29] run out of time there's both joy and disappointment the joy is that I think we've covered a fair amount

[01:14:35] today one could go on and on of course but I think we've had a really fruitful discussion

[01:14:40] that's one part of my joy the other part of my joy certainly is that chinwag evenings

[01:14:46] seem to be the way to go today has been rich in conversations not just the ones recorded but before

[01:14:53] and hopefully after so there's loads to celebrate about I want to thank people or before

[01:14:58] that let me talk about my disappointments that all of us are alive and well I thought they would be

[01:15:02] you know approved we won't go there for now but thank you guys

[01:15:08] the undertakers yeah you're the best you're gonna go pay there when you drop dead drop in drop in

[01:15:13] drop it was an advertising lie oh right guy was good yeah I was classic excuse me with what we are

[01:15:19] talking about except it's not very musical but but deep gratitude you'd firstly to the four gentlemen

[01:15:26] who have joined us this evening thank you Rajeev Les Brown thank you man really appreciate

[01:15:32] well you know chinwag evenings is about all of us as well I really really want to thank you guys

[01:15:42] for coming over spending time and I think the social aspect of meeting and chatting going way

[01:15:48] beyond what we're recording is gonna make a difference in now here's the sales pitch in the

[01:15:54] new year we at the chinwag collective are gonna be doing two podcasts the conventional way audio

[01:16:00] and once a month we're hoping to meet up like this and hopefully all the 10% that I earn if I do

[01:16:07] will pay for the stuff that goes into it but we're hoping more importantly and seriously to meet

[01:16:12] personally but we spoke about you know being social animals and we're hoping that this vibration

[01:16:18] will grow I want to specifically thank all of you for taking the time out to be with us to

[01:16:23] contribute to soak it in to help us have a few laughs and live life like we showed with a smile on

[01:16:29] face and heart I want to thank Alex and your team at Smokehouse for being the perfect host

[01:16:38] the bar stacked up right you know as also as also binge-pods iDBruce for being our podcast partner

[01:16:45] and and all of the guys at dishkow for helping us capture all of this and generally the team that's

[01:16:52] put it together okay speech for the evening over just want to let you know that we appreciate

[01:16:58] you being here and if you can once this is out be kind of advertising for us we'd really appreciate

[01:17:08] I said well said listen what I earn I promise you will be spent we're talking about developing a

[01:17:17] mutually beneficial society here so you've got a deal coming your way she's not as young as it

[01:17:22] like how to be but hey thanks again and what do I say let's continue to socialize thank you very

[01:17:28] much hey everyone thanks but tuning in catch us next week for more hijinks along with killer

[01:17:36] insights from the best in advertising theater music and experiential subscribe to the Chinwag

[01:17:42] collective wherever you get your podcasts