This week, the boys discuss various topics including Indeed's layoffs, the ban on lab-grown meat in Alabama, Jerry Seinfeld's commencement speech, and the financial struggles of ZipRecruiter. They also dig into the introduction of Eightfold Talent Tracking, and the partnership between Stack Overflow and Indeed. They express their disappointment with ZipRecruiter's performance and call for better leadership. They criticize Eightfold for expanding too quickly and losing focus, and they mock the buzzword-filled description of their new product. They also question the strategy behind Twitter's, er, X's job recommendations and express their frustration with the lack of innovation. Finally, they discuss the controversy surrounding the Portal Project between New York and Dublin and how an OnlyFans model reminds us how much we all love boobies ... or is it potatoes? Eh, just listen.
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[00:00:53] Hide your kids! Lock the doors! You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast. Chad Sowash
[00:00:59] and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts.
[00:01:04] Complete with breaking news, rash opinion, and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls,
[00:01:09] it's time for the Chad and Cheese Podcast.
[00:01:19] Oh yeah, just two guys fighting for the right to party since 1987. Hey boys and girls,
[00:01:29] you're listening to the Chad and Cheese Podcast. I'm your co-host, Joel Loch Ness Cheeseman.
[00:01:36] EuroChad is back! Sowash.
[00:01:38] And on this episode, indeed cuts, zip drops, and New York flashes. Let's do this.
[00:01:50] Okay listener, how can you help your employees become more productive? I have answers. How
[00:01:55] about automating manual and repetitive tasks, giving meaning to data, then allowing that
[00:02:02] data to actually drive decisions? And how about matching people to your jobs quicker?
[00:02:08] Well wait, the Chad and Cheese has a new LLM?
[00:02:13] No Cheeseman. I'm talking about Tex Colonel.
[00:02:15] Ah okay, that makes more sense. What I'm hearing is the groundbreaking concept of,
[00:02:22] wait for it, simplicity. Seriously though, seriously, Tex Colonel cuts through the
[00:02:29] complexities like a tortilla chip through some hot nacho cheese.
[00:02:34] Really? Nacho references already. Anyways, Tex Colonel brings efficiency and productivity
[00:02:39] to your operations. Tex Colonel seamlessly unifies your tools and data to drive
[00:02:46] efficiencies and success. Tex Colonel is creating new opportunities for your
[00:02:52] recruitment journey. Kind of like adding guac to my barbacoa burrito.
[00:02:57] Oh my god, how about extracting meaningful insights from data? I mean, that's something.
[00:03:03] Swiftly matching people with jobs, automating repetitive tasks. Who knew such advanced concepts
[00:03:10] were even possible in the land of human resources? We did Chad, we did. Dude, wrap it up.
[00:03:19] I'm a little hungry. Imagine that. Okay, listener, get ready to use today's tech
[00:03:24] to drive efficiencies and productivity. Visit TexColonel.com. That's T-E-X-T-K-E-R-N-E-L.com.
[00:03:36] Nachos. Like the last part.
[00:03:43] Euro Chad is back. Back baby. I am back.
[00:03:46] Tan rested and ready. Yes, I did. I was doing my work in Santa Fe prior getting ready for this,
[00:03:53] getting a little tan, getting ready. Yeah. Yeah. Then jumped obviously off the tower,
[00:03:59] which is apparently something that I needed to do before I did this. So yeah, no, we got back
[00:04:05] yesterday last night and I'm happy to be here. Oh, I'm so happy.
[00:04:09] Yeah. Vegas was... I gotta tell you though, Magic keeps calling. Magic,
[00:04:13] he just wants to hang out all the time now. We're best friends. I don't know if you saw that or
[00:04:18] not, but yeah, Magic Johnson and I are BFFs. We're hanging out with MJ and Bird later tonight.
[00:04:24] We're going to Chipotle for some barbeque. Is it coming to Scotter? That's the question
[00:04:28] because I mean, I think that is a great opportunity to get Magic to come to Scotland
[00:04:33] and do a little tour with Magic. How great are the Scots? How engaged
[00:04:41] and just excited are the Scots? I reached out to my LinkedIn content, like you're coming here
[00:04:47] just for us. Yeah dude, we're coming and the whiskey, but yeah, coming for you guys.
[00:04:53] We're definitely coming for you. If you have some whiskey, which I'm sure you do,
[00:04:57] go ahead and get it ready for us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. No doubt. My liver is
[00:05:03] exercising in readiness for that. Oh shit.
[00:05:06] So shout outs we got. I'm going to go first here.
[00:05:08] Shout out.
[00:05:09] Love the fans. Love the fans, but one particular Janet English. She works for Resume Library in
[00:05:16] the UK, but she's over here in the States. I had really nice things to say. I won't read
[00:05:20] the whole thing, but basically quote, I've worked for Resume Library as an account manager
[00:05:24] for seven years and man, you guys make me giggle with your comments. And this is kind of
[00:05:32] solid, consistent comment that I get. I think you do too. We're funny. I don't know. It's
[00:05:40] a grumpy old man or something. Make people laugh. We take people go walk the dog,
[00:05:46] they go do whatever they like. Just we let them get away. We're the Calgon of podcasts,
[00:05:53] I guess. But anyway, shout out to Janet English.
[00:05:55] Shout out to Janet. No question. You got to remember though, the bar is very low for HR
[00:05:59] and tech podcasts and TA podcasts. So if we crack a joke every now and again,
[00:06:05] we become the most hilarious thing in the space. But again, the bar is very low.
[00:06:11] It is low, but we're competing with other podcasts. They could go listen to Smart List
[00:06:15] or Robin or whatever, but hey, they're listening to us. So shout out, Janet.
[00:06:20] Thank you. Keep listening. Oh yeah. And by the way, if you're not subscribed to YouTube,
[00:06:25] go subscribe to YouTube. Give us a review. Love us, hate us. It doesn't matter. We love
[00:06:30] to hear the feedback. Whether you like what I say, or what do you like what Joel says,
[00:06:34] doesn't matter. We just love that you're listening and you're getting engaged in the discussion.
[00:06:38] And we don't ask that you agree with us. Never because hell, we don't even do that.
[00:06:43] We're doing it wrong if everyone agrees with us.
[00:06:45] You are 100% right. For sure.
[00:06:47] I'm going to do a double Bama shout out. Are you ready for this?
[00:06:51] Yeah, I'm ready. I'm ready for the Bama combo.
[00:06:53] Okay. So the first Bama shout out goes to the United Auto Workers. This from NBC News,
[00:06:58] workers at the Mercedes Benz plant in Alabama began voting Monday on whether to join the
[00:07:04] UAW union, a significant test of whether the labor group can maintain momentum in the
[00:07:10] historically anti-union American South. VW joined the UAW in Tennessee, but Tennessee is
[00:07:20] not the Deep South. Alabama is the Deep South. So what do you think about this? Do you think
[00:07:25] Mercedes will end up joining in Alabama, or do you think that the pressure is just way
[00:07:32] too much in the deep south for unions?
[00:07:34] You're drunk already, aren't you buddy?
[00:07:37] I like the unions.
[00:07:39] I like the unions everywhere.
[00:07:40] I like UAW.
[00:07:42] I like fucking Apple.
[00:07:44] Apple union allegedly boycotting or picketing.
[00:07:49] I don't know what unions are having a moment.
[00:07:51] Look, Mercedes has been in Alabama for a long time.
[00:07:54] They've spent a lot of money there.
[00:07:56] I don't see any way that car companies, restaurants, like unions are having a moment until the robots
[00:08:02] take over.
[00:08:03] I'm going to be team union on this one, whether it's in Alabama, Florida, New York or Washington.
[00:08:08] Go unions.
[00:08:09] I got to say, Sean Fain became the UAW's president in March of 2023.
[00:08:14] It's just been over a year.
[00:08:16] It feels like he's been the president for much longer just because of everything that
[00:08:21] because he led the union to the first simultaneous strike with GM, Ford and Stellantis, which
[00:08:26] resulted in 25% wage increase kids and a return of cost of living adjustments for its
[00:08:33] members.
[00:08:34] So of course, Bama is going to want them some of that, right?
[00:08:37] I mean, it's just it's going to happen.
[00:08:39] It's going to happen.
[00:08:40] And then we'll go ahead and roll into my second Bama shout out goes to lab grown
[00:08:45] meat.
[00:08:46] Alabama is now the second state in the nation to ban the sale of cultured meat, AKA meat
[00:08:52] grown in a lab.
[00:08:53] Alabama Governor Kay Ivey signed SB 23 into law, making the manufacturer sale or distribution
[00:09:00] of food products produced from cultured animal cells, a class C misdemeanor as of October
[00:09:08] 1st, 2024.
[00:09:10] So Cheeseman, are you ready for your I mean, Indiana still has the ability to
[00:09:14] do this.
[00:09:15] You know, you can put your hands on a lab grown meat burger.
[00:09:18] You're drunk already, aren't you buddy?
[00:09:21] You know, this this is kind of close to home because my wife, she does a lot of
[00:09:25] work around insects as protein.
[00:09:29] And while we're I think we're a long way from human beings in America eating a
[00:09:33] billion some people around the world eat bugs pretty regularly.
[00:09:37] And if we just replaced our dog cat food, pet food with insects and my dog eats
[00:09:42] Peepers. Peepers is a young puppy at 12 and because he eats bugs.
[00:09:46] I mean, this the food looks like dog food.
[00:09:48] He doesn't know any different.
[00:09:49] It's all protein.
[00:09:51] But that trend is stifled by the farming and the agriculture community.
[00:09:57] And farmers got lovey baby.
[00:09:58] Lobby family members that are farmers like I love farmers.
[00:10:03] But they in terms of protecting their nugget lobby, Congress make these things
[00:10:09] laws where you can't grow meat in a lab or you can't like insects aren't subsidized.
[00:10:14] Meat is subsidized. Farming is subsidized.
[00:10:16] Like the government is behind this thing and to create laws where, oh, we can't
[00:10:20] grow chicken in a lab like who cares?
[00:10:23] I mean, if you're in for animal, if you like animal welfare, there's no
[00:10:26] animals killed when you grow a chicken breast in a lab.
[00:10:29] And apparently it tastes pretty much the same.
[00:10:31] I know you're a big vegetarian meat guy.
[00:10:34] But yeah, this is all just a power play to keep farmers and politicians in
[00:10:38] business and stifling competition.
[00:10:41] I think overall, it's a negative thing as much as I do love love the farming
[00:10:44] community. It is I'm ready to eat whatever tastes like Chipotle.
[00:10:48] Yeah, if Chipotle can do this, I'm down.
[00:10:50] I'm down with it. I thought it was interesting.
[00:10:52] I mean, I'm not personally a fan of the whole idea just thinking of animal
[00:10:57] cells in a lab that just doesn't get my appetite rolling.
[00:11:01] But did you know that U.S.
[00:11:03] animal products are brand in other countries?
[00:11:06] U.S. pork is banned in China, Russia and the EU.
[00:11:09] Pre packaged ground beef, you know, the stuff with the pink slime is banned in
[00:11:14] the EU and U.S.
[00:11:16] milk is banned in Japan, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the EU.
[00:11:22] I mean, it's just because I was thinking, wow, we're banning stuff here.
[00:11:27] Do other countries ban the stuff that we do?
[00:11:30] And because of all the artificial dyes, the chemicals, the preservatives,
[00:11:34] the hormones, all that shit that we use in the U.S., most countries are like,
[00:11:38] no, we don't want any of that shit, right?
[00:11:40] We don't want that.
[00:11:42] So it's interesting that we have this this idea of lab grown meats,
[00:11:47] which again, I'm not against.
[00:11:48] I just don't find it appetizing myself as somebody else does.
[00:11:51] That's fucking awesome.
[00:11:52] But what about what about the actual beef, you know,
[00:11:55] in dairy that we do here that we have in the U.S.?
[00:11:58] It's just it's banned in other countries.
[00:12:01] Yeah, it's it's ironic, right?
[00:12:03] We're going to ban lab grown meat.
[00:12:05] But hey, those pesticides and preservatives and I mean, not even just food.
[00:12:10] I know like tide is illegal in Europe because of whatever cleaning thing is in there
[00:12:16] is killing. I mean, Americans are the cockroaches of the world.
[00:12:19] Like we eat so much shit, put so much crap in our bodies.
[00:12:23] Like when the world when the shit hits the fan,
[00:12:25] the Americans are going to be left because we're the cockroaches
[00:12:28] eating and consuming all the shit in the world.
[00:12:30] We've survived all these pesticides and poisons.
[00:12:33] Everyone else is going to die and it's going to be America.
[00:12:36] America first, baby.
[00:12:37] America first when the shit hits the fan.
[00:12:40] Geez, I don't know.
[00:12:42] Shout outs going long today.
[00:12:43] I'm going to make it quick.
[00:12:44] My second one, Jerry Seinfeld.
[00:12:47] Everyone knows Jerry Seinfeld, arguably the best show ever.
[00:12:51] Definitely the best sitcom ever for my money.
[00:12:54] Anyway, it's good that you say that.
[00:12:56] So show about nothing.
[00:12:57] Well, Jerry, Jerry's kind of taken stances now.
[00:13:00] Jerry's almost 70.
[00:13:01] He's he's got an opinion.
[00:13:03] The Israeli Gaza thing.
[00:13:05] He's obviously more vocal about.
[00:13:07] But anyway, he did the commencement speech at Duke recently.
[00:13:10] The media made a big deal about there were like 12 protesters.
[00:13:13] And that was like the lead story.
[00:13:14] But the lead story to me was Jerry was great.
[00:13:17] Like if you get a chance, go check out Jerry's commencement speech.
[00:13:20] It's very insightful. It's very funny.
[00:13:22] He defends comedy, not being too sensitive about, you know,
[00:13:26] the need to laugh as human beings, not take ourselves so seriously.
[00:13:31] I think it was a prescient, timely message.
[00:13:33] So shout out to Jerry Seinfeld.
[00:13:36] I really enjoyed his commencement speech at Duke University.
[00:13:39] Very nice.
[00:13:40] What what listeners really like is they really enjoy free stuff.
[00:13:43] You can get t-shirts by air and app.
[00:13:46] That's right. We've got the new t-shirt.
[00:13:48] And I don't know how many people that have actually have commented back
[00:13:53] to us that this is their favorite shirt design yet.
[00:13:57] Right. So it's the Guns N' Roses, Chad and She's podcast design by Air and App.
[00:14:03] And in Air and App even did their own custom logo on the back, which is awesome.
[00:14:07] If you're on YouTube, you can see this is the actual packaging for the shirt.
[00:14:11] Look at this. We did branded.
[00:14:13] I tell you, go on the extra mile that Joel Cheeseman is or is it Stella Cheeseman?
[00:14:19] Anyway, beer by Aspen Tech Labs.
[00:14:22] Stella is just my sweatshop in the basement.
[00:14:25] That's what Stella is at the moment.
[00:14:27] I hope you don't put her in the basement.
[00:14:28] Beer by Aspen Tech Labs.
[00:14:30] That's right, kids.
[00:14:32] We love us some Aspen Tech Labs and some craft beer.
[00:14:35] Whiskey by Tex Colonel.
[00:14:37] Two bottles of whiskey from our friends at Tex Colonel.
[00:14:40] And if it's your birthday, it's a little rum from Plum.
[00:14:44] Go to ChadCheese.com slash free.
[00:14:47] Register and win.
[00:14:49] I know I can.
[00:14:51] I can feel it all the way down in my plums.
[00:14:53] That's that's right.
[00:14:54] Another trip around the sun for some of our listeners.
[00:14:57] Happy birthday goes to Michelle Sargent, Amy Butchko,
[00:15:01] Matt Brigham, Sarah Starkweather, Jacqueline Adair, Matt Soroka,
[00:15:06] Sean Campbell, Madison Richard, Michelle Beer, Stephanie Trissick,
[00:15:09] Maria Simelton, Bruce Carey, Tyler McEveley, Kevin Robinson,
[00:15:15] Matt Lavery, our favorite Chicagoan for the month.
[00:15:19] Anyway, Matt Kaiser and Richard Karlin.
[00:15:22] Happy birthday!
[00:15:24] They all celebrate on another trip around the sun.
[00:15:26] By the way, I just sent Matt Lavery one the birthday this week or this month.
[00:15:31] And I got robbed.
[00:15:33] Uber Eats.
[00:15:34] OK, I sent him.
[00:15:35] I bought a nice bottle of rum.
[00:15:38] And somehow he got a shitty bottle of Captain Morgan.
[00:15:41] OK, no, this has to be rectified.
[00:15:44] I ain't going.
[00:15:45] I ain't going down like that.
[00:15:46] So I'm going to send Matt a real bottle and hope that Uber Eats gets it right.
[00:15:51] And if not, I'm just going to send him some old style
[00:15:53] that he can drink while he watches the Cubs lose this weekend.
[00:15:57] But Matt, I got robbed, man.
[00:15:59] I we don't we don't do that at Chattin' Cheese.
[00:16:02] We bring the good shit and I'm going to make sure you get some good shit.
[00:16:05] So yeah, happy birthday.
[00:16:06] We'll make sure that Matt is taken care of.
[00:16:08] Yes. And look for we actually interviewed Matt during Unleashed
[00:16:13] It was an amazing, amazing, amazing interview.
[00:16:17] Matt looks for UPS.
[00:16:18] He's been there for 27 years and man, he gives us a history lesson,
[00:16:22] not to mention he talks about business.
[00:16:25] We're not just talking about talent and all that.
[00:16:27] I mean, business. And I love that.
[00:16:30] I love when T.A. leaders talk about and they understand business.
[00:16:33] And we're going to be talking to some T.A. leaders.
[00:16:35] And a fan of unions, by the way, we're talking about unions.
[00:16:37] Yes. Yeah, because I mean, the union is pretty much a part of UPS,
[00:16:41] but we're going to be talking to some other talent acquisition
[00:16:44] H.R. practitioners in Scotland next week in Glasgow.
[00:16:48] Welcome to all things Scottish.
[00:16:50] Our slogan is if it's no Scottish, it's crap.
[00:16:52] The 21st of May, Glasgow and Edinburgh on the 23rd of May.
[00:16:59] Go to truescotland.com.
[00:17:02] And thank you so much. We've got to thank Daxstra.
[00:17:04] Got to thank Ashby, Willow, Poetry, Gig.ai, Solutions Driven.
[00:17:11] These guys stepped up to the plate pretty quickly with their kilts on
[00:17:15] and taking some swings. So we really appreciate that, guys.
[00:17:19] We're going to see you next week.
[00:17:20] Going to have some fun pulling some content together
[00:17:22] and go into these these true events in Scotland.
[00:17:25] Then we've got a double header coming up.
[00:17:28] Mr. Cheeseman with a rec fest happening in Neboearth Park.
[00:17:33] One day event July 11th and then rec fest coming to Nashville
[00:17:37] September 12th and 13th.
[00:17:39] I can't be more excited than to get back to rec fest.
[00:17:45] I just again, I love events.
[00:17:47] I love being able to get out and see the people.
[00:17:49] But rec fest is just a different animal.
[00:17:52] And if you're a practitioner that's out there, this is what you need to be doing.
[00:17:56] There's already a company that has and I don't know if I can tell the name yet.
[00:18:00] They bought like 100 tickets, 100 tickets for their entire TA staff.
[00:18:07] And I'm sure some of the HR staff are coming too.
[00:18:09] But a very big company, because why?
[00:18:11] Because rec fest is a pretty much easy button for your, you know,
[00:18:17] your all hands day.
[00:18:18] Bring the entire crew, bring the entire group.
[00:18:21] They come out to listen, learn and have some fun.
[00:18:23] Rec fest at Neboearth Park and also Nashville.
[00:18:28] Go to Chadcheese.com slash events.
[00:18:31] And you'll see the information right there.
[00:18:34] Come come to both.
[00:18:36] All right, all right.
[00:18:39] I wonder if the 100 tickets was for Indeed, because at this rate,
[00:18:42] that's about how many employees they're going to have at the end of it,
[00:18:45] which brings us to.
[00:18:47] Topics.
[00:18:51] Oh, shit, let's talk.
[00:18:53] Playoffs. Playoffs.
[00:18:55] Indeed.com announced a significant workforce reduction
[00:18:58] of about a thousand employees this week,
[00:19:00] which is approximately 8% of its global workforce.
[00:19:03] CEO Chris Hymes cited the need to simplify the organization
[00:19:08] for faster decision making and to drive revenue and hires more effectively.
[00:19:13] The layoffs are concentrated in the U.S.,
[00:19:15] particularly affecting the R&D and some go to market teams.
[00:19:19] Chad, a thousand new people need Indeed this week.
[00:19:22] Indeed, they do. Your thoughts?
[00:19:26] OK, so the letter that Chris Hymes wrote,
[00:19:31] I'm going to give you a quote out of it, quote,
[00:19:33] I am responsible for how we got here and the entire senior leadership team
[00:19:37] is responsible for making the difficult decisions necessary
[00:19:40] to help set us up for the future.
[00:19:43] We know that these decisions will have a significant impact
[00:19:46] on people's lives, end quote. No shit, Chris.
[00:19:49] And this isn't the first time that you've had to cut heads.
[00:19:52] I don't know how many times I need to say it.
[00:19:54] He's not the guy for the job right now.
[00:19:56] He was the guy for the job for a few years, right?
[00:20:01] He's not the guy for the job now.
[00:20:02] He's not the guy who can actually take Indeed to the next level.
[00:20:06] And if you take a look at some of the SIA information that came out,
[00:20:11] the global market for online job ads fell 5%
[00:20:15] to 34.4 billion in 2023 compared to the previous year.
[00:20:20] Again, from SIA.
[00:20:21] Still, online job advertising revenue grew 151%,
[00:20:27] 151% between 2015 and 2023, according to the same SIA report.
[00:20:34] Only being down 5%, right?
[00:20:38] 151%. That's not sustainable.
[00:20:40] There's going to be a drop, right?
[00:20:42] But the thing is, CEOs have to learn how to grow responsibly.
[00:20:48] And when you're cutting this many heads, I know this is 8%,
[00:20:51] but this isn't the first cut, right?
[00:20:53] A thousand people. Yeah, I mean, this is...
[00:20:57] Who needs to go at this point?
[00:20:58] It needs to be the guy at the top. Why?
[00:21:00] Because he's responsible. He even said that he's responsible.
[00:21:03] So if I am a board member, I'm looking for a replacement,
[00:21:06] a capable replacement who knows how to drive an organization
[00:21:11] like Indeed to grow responsibly, sustainably.
[00:21:15] Chris is not the guy. I'm sorry.
[00:21:17] And it sounds like I'm calling for a lot of heads here lately,
[00:21:20] as I did for Ian's at Zip.
[00:21:22] But I think both of those organizations are at the point where...
[00:21:26] I mean, you have to look at yourself in the mirror and say,
[00:21:28] hey, am I the right guy for this?
[00:21:30] There are many people who are not going to look at themselves
[00:21:32] and say, yeah, I need to go ahead and I need to find my next thing.
[00:21:36] These guys are not it.
[00:21:37] And unfortunately, you know, I don't know who's going to be able
[00:21:41] to put a boot in their ass, but they're not going to do it to themselves.
[00:21:44] Doesn't anyone notice this? I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!
[00:21:48] That's a very interesting perspective.
[00:21:50] Recruit Holdings owns Indeed.
[00:21:53] Recruit Holdings is a staffing company.
[00:21:56] They bought Indeed 10 plus years ago.
[00:21:58] They bought a glass door kind of as a way to make sure Zip Recruiter
[00:22:01] didn't buy them at the time or someone else didn't.
[00:22:04] So there's a question of whether Chris is the guy to lead Indeed,
[00:22:09] but is Recruit the right organization to run a job site?
[00:22:14] I think there's ample argument to say like,
[00:22:16] Recruit may not know what the fuck they're doing with Indeed.
[00:22:20] Chris from all accounts is a nice guy.
[00:22:22] He looks like if you and I had a love child,
[00:22:24] it might look a little bit like Chris Himes.
[00:22:26] But that's aside from the point.
[00:22:28] So you bring up an interesting point.
[00:22:29] And I would say, like, I don't know if Recruit Holdings
[00:22:32] knows what the hell they're doing.
[00:22:33] They're a great staffing company, billions and billions in revenue.
[00:22:36] But I think jury's out as to whether or not they know
[00:22:38] what the hell to do with a job site.
[00:22:40] And then they just launched an on-demand job site in Japan.
[00:22:43] We'll see where that goes. Probably nowhere.
[00:22:45] Indeed Go, wasn't it?
[00:22:47] It's in beta now. It's only Japan only.
[00:22:50] Anyway, listen to the shred.
[00:22:51] The shred has some insight into that.
[00:22:53] I just forget what that was.
[00:22:56] But to me, like you mentioned layoffs previously,
[00:22:59] and that was back in March of 23.
[00:23:01] They laid off 15% of the workforce back then.
[00:23:04] It was around 2,200.
[00:23:05] Now, back then everyone was laying off,
[00:23:07] you know, multiple percentages of people.
[00:23:10] So maybe it was less big of a news,
[00:23:12] but to then come back to the table and cut 8%,
[00:23:15] like that's significant. That's significant.
[00:23:17] 15 and then 8% of the workforce.
[00:23:19] I point a lot of this to not only maybe mismanagement
[00:23:22] from Recruit Holdings and Chris being the wrong guy,
[00:23:25] but also Value Act,
[00:23:26] which took a stake in Recruit Holdings
[00:23:29] back in November of 23.
[00:23:31] Let me get this right.
[00:23:32] At the time they said that the two companies
[00:23:34] were set to benefit from smarter pricing,
[00:23:37] better cost management,
[00:23:38] and shrewd modernization of the services
[00:23:41] used to run websites, translation, year of efficiency,
[00:23:44] cut fat, cut heads, do what private equity does.
[00:23:48] And that's cut fat and increase profits.
[00:23:51] The problem is, profits aren't coming.
[00:23:54] So is this the end of the cuts?
[00:23:56] Like, I'm not so sure.
[00:23:58] I'm not so sure.
[00:23:59] From what I heard is they were waiting
[00:24:01] for this new sourcing tool to be completed
[00:24:04] before they did anything.
[00:24:05] Recruit Holdings just announced their quarterly earnings.
[00:24:08] I'm sure they had to like put some cloud cover
[00:24:11] with their earnings, which were awful.
[00:24:13] With them we cut some people, cut some staff.
[00:24:15] So this is really just bad all around.
[00:24:18] Is sourcing gonna fix it?
[00:24:19] I don't think so.
[00:24:21] I think the four apocalypse are in full effect right now.
[00:24:26] The job board doctor is really quiet these days.
[00:24:29] I can't imagine why.
[00:24:30] And as we get to our next story,
[00:24:31] it's even worse for them.
[00:24:32] But yeah, things are bad for Indeed and getting worse.
[00:24:35] I don't see any turnaround.
[00:24:36] They need a tech savvy guy that understands
[00:24:39] the internet because these staffing guys
[00:24:41] don't know what the fuck they're doing.
[00:24:42] Well, so I mean, cutting R&D and go to market,
[00:24:46] I mean, is that a way forward?
[00:24:51] I mean, is that really the way forward?
[00:24:53] I mean, you've got a platform that's 20 years old.
[00:24:55] And we've talked about like this with LinkedIn too.
[00:24:57] You know, how do you get through this?
[00:24:59] I mean, you've got a platform that should,
[00:25:02] to be quite frank, should be really matching jobs
[00:25:06] and delivering qualified jobs to qualified,
[00:25:09] or jobs to qualified individuals, right?
[00:25:12] You should be there already.
[00:25:13] There's no reason we should not be there as an industry
[00:25:15] and Indeed should have been leading that.
[00:25:17] The problem is they still have shitty tech.
[00:25:20] I mean, it's crazy just listening to some of this shit, man.
[00:25:25] It's ridiculous.
[00:25:26] I don't get it.
[00:25:27] I just don't get it.
[00:25:28] Yeah, usually the stories now are like,
[00:25:30] hey, we're automating customer service.
[00:25:32] We're automating, you know, cutting sales staff
[00:25:34] and automating that process or marketing.
[00:25:36] You rarely ever hear about R&D
[00:25:38] Yeah, and go to market.
[00:25:39] Going to the wayside.
[00:25:40] So again, not a good sign, but from bad to worse,
[00:25:44] let's get to another, our red meat segment here.
[00:25:46] The meatloaf!
[00:25:48] Fuck!
[00:25:49] All right, let's talk about Zip Recruiter.
[00:25:51] Good God, here we go.
[00:25:55] From bad to worse, Zip Recruiter had a difficult
[00:25:58] first quarter featuring a significant,
[00:26:00] significant revenue decline and its first net loss
[00:26:04] since Q2 of 2021.
[00:26:06] The company reported a revenue of roughly $122 million,
[00:26:10] which was a 33% decrease.
[00:26:13] Let me repeat that.
[00:26:13] A 33% decrease from the previous year.
[00:26:16] This financial downturn was attributed
[00:26:18] to a depressed labor demand and market factors.
[00:26:22] The company also experienced a 32% drop
[00:26:25] in the number of paying employers.
[00:26:27] Chad, you weren't a fan of Zip CEO before this report.
[00:26:32] How do you feel about the situation at Zip Recruiter now?
[00:26:35] Yeah, this doesn't feel like the red meat segment.
[00:26:39] It feels like the CEO heads need to roll segments.
[00:26:44] Yeah, I mean you just, I mean you lined it out there.
[00:26:47] I mean revenue down 33.5%, net loss.
[00:26:51] Net loss, 230%.
[00:26:54] One more time, net loss, 230%.
[00:26:57] So as I stated earlier in the segment,
[00:26:59] the market is seeing a 5% drop.
[00:27:02] 5% drop, single digit, right?
[00:27:05] And we're seeing 230% net loss.
[00:27:09] If it's not, I just don't know what needs to happen
[00:27:15] for organizations to understand that,
[00:27:18] cutting thousands of people like Zip and Indeed both have.
[00:27:23] Once you do that and that doesn't remedy the problem,
[00:27:26] you might need to look at the top
[00:27:28] of the ivory fucking tower for God sakes.
[00:27:31] We need better leadership in these positions.
[00:27:34] And as I'd said before,
[00:27:35] Ian I thought was incredibly innovative
[00:27:38] until they got to IPO.
[00:27:39] I don't know if he got across that IPO finish line
[00:27:42] and just he's taking a fucking nap or what's going on.
[00:27:46] But I mean things have gone
[00:27:48] from innovation to non-existent.
[00:27:50] You done messed up A.A. Ron!
[00:27:53] I'll try to be as nice about this as I can.
[00:27:55] Zip Recruiter right now is a pile of dog shit
[00:27:59] sprinkled with cat turds.
[00:28:02] Stocked down 8%, which by the way,
[00:28:04] it's down quite a bit before that.
[00:28:06] Look, you had a great brand,
[00:28:09] a brand that represented hourly work, seasonal work,
[00:28:13] part-time work and it was the gold standard
[00:28:15] for that market.
[00:28:17] It was.
[00:28:18] They lost their shit,
[00:28:18] decided to create a brand for everybody,
[00:28:20] put some Phil AI bullshit as their mascot slash tech.
[00:28:26] They went AI, they went enterprise and they went IPO
[00:28:31] and it's been a shit show ever since.
[00:28:33] And then they went to shit.
[00:28:34] They're not gonna go back to what they were.
[00:28:37] The game is up, they're in Santa Monica, California.
[00:28:40] It's much nicer to go to the beach and hang out there
[00:28:43] than it is to figure out this company.
[00:28:46] I think that your calls for Ian to go are legit.
[00:28:50] This company's going nowhere fast
[00:28:53] and if we get into recession territory
[00:28:55] in the greater economy,
[00:28:57] you're gonna see some real pain
[00:28:59] at a place like Zip Recruiter.
[00:29:01] If I'm an employee at Zip Recruiter right now,
[00:29:03] I'm really nervous and I'm updating my LinkedIn profile.
[00:29:08] Yeah, I mean we take a look at sports.
[00:29:10] We see like quarterbacks who've lost a step
[00:29:12] and they just get hammered
[00:29:15] and so does the team.
[00:29:18] The CEO has gotta, again, they've gotta take a look.
[00:29:20] It's like hey look, you've lost a step.
[00:29:22] Maybe you should go back and try another startup
[00:29:25] or something.
[00:29:27] You can't be in the NFL anymore.
[00:29:29] You need to be in the UFL maybe.
[00:29:31] Look, Ian was great at building a brand,
[00:29:33] getting a niche and being the best service in that niche.
[00:29:37] They were a better cooler Craigslist for that market
[00:29:43] and they have lost their way
[00:29:44] and it's time to make some serious changes
[00:29:47] at Zip Recruiter if they're gonna save that thing.
[00:29:50] Agreed, agreed.
[00:29:52] Another one.
[00:29:53] All right, more red meat for the listeners.
[00:29:56] Eightfold has introduced Eightfold Talent Tracking.
[00:30:02] An AI native applicant tracking system
[00:30:05] aiming to streamline HR technology investments
[00:30:08] and enhance the talent acquisition process,
[00:30:10] promising to accelerate successful job offers,
[00:30:14] provide a cohesive experience for talent teams
[00:30:16] and candidates and offer skills-based
[00:30:19] compensation intelligence.
[00:30:21] Don't call it an ATS, Chad.
[00:30:23] Your thoughts on Eightfold's Talent Tracking.
[00:30:27] When Eightfold took 125 million back in October of 2020,
[00:30:31] I said that that kind of money means
[00:30:33] that they're going to have to become
[00:30:35] some sort of platform and my prediction was
[00:30:37] that platform's gonna have to be
[00:30:39] an applicant tracking system.
[00:30:40] I doubled down when Eightfold received
[00:30:42] an additional 220 million in June of 2021,
[00:30:47] less than a year from each other.
[00:30:49] I mean, they had $345 million in less than a year.
[00:30:54] Now, taking hundreds of millions of dollars
[00:30:56] in that short amount of time means
[00:30:58] there has to be some grander vision
[00:31:01] that investors bought into.
[00:31:03] And that vision could have been owning your specialty
[00:31:07] and then landing new customers
[00:31:09] and then slowly expanding your product base organically
[00:31:14] into that portfolio.
[00:31:15] That's how you gain wallet share.
[00:31:17] That's responsible growth.
[00:31:18] But you can also expand your offerings too fast.
[00:31:22] And I remember back in my monster days,
[00:31:24] so story time kids,
[00:31:26] we were killing the job revenue game.
[00:31:29] And then we started expanding into areas
[00:31:32] that we had no expertise.
[00:31:33] So do you remember Monster Momentum, that product?
[00:31:37] No, I do not remember Monster Momentum.
[00:31:39] Of course you don't.
[00:31:40] Of course you don't.
[00:31:41] It was an applicant tracking system
[00:31:43] that never took off.
[00:31:44] Why didn't it take off?
[00:31:45] Monster was a job listing service.
[00:31:48] And then the Monster staff,
[00:31:50] they were wonderful at selling and servicing
[00:31:53] and upselling those job ad accounts.
[00:31:55] But they were never an HR tech company.
[00:31:58] That's an entirely different animal.
[00:32:00] And that's why Monster Momentum
[00:32:01] never made it out of the cradle.
[00:32:03] So that's what I'm seeing here with Eightfold.
[00:32:05] Not only did they start out as a matching platform,
[00:32:09] they weren't even a leader in that specific domain.
[00:32:12] Monster was at least a leader in a domain
[00:32:15] before they started to step out of it, right?
[00:32:17] Before they failed miserably with Monster Momentum.
[00:32:20] So Eightfold takes more money
[00:32:22] and dramatically opens up their total addressable market
[00:32:25] with regard to solutions offering
[00:32:27] and expanding their geographic footprint.
[00:32:30] I just don't think Eightfold, you know,
[00:32:33] I think they're not gonna fail
[00:32:35] because they're launching an applicant tracking system.
[00:32:38] I believe Eightfold will fail
[00:32:39] because they are growing their total addressable market
[00:32:42] at an unsustainable rate.
[00:32:44] Taking too much money too fast,
[00:32:47] that can really blur your vision and your discipline.
[00:32:52] Goes out the window.
[00:32:53] And then you become an expert at nothing.
[00:32:55] I was thinking about this kind of like with ZipRecruiter,
[00:32:58] but this goes along with Eightfold too.
[00:33:01] You know, what's the easiest way
[00:33:02] to get $100 million in your bank account?
[00:33:05] Start with 345 million.
[00:33:07] You are so dumb.
[00:33:09] You are really dumb for real.
[00:33:11] As Mark Twain said, I went broke slowly
[00:33:14] and then all of a sudden or suddenly.
[00:33:17] Chano Fernandez, the former co-CEO of Workday
[00:33:22] became the co-CEO of Eightfold in January of this year.
[00:33:26] So are we surprised that innovation out of Workday's
[00:33:30] full co-CEO is in the form of an ATS
[00:33:35] that they somehow wanna rename talent tracking
[00:33:38] because we're Eightfold and we're cool.
[00:33:40] So let me give you the quote from the press release.
[00:33:43] Let me get this right.
[00:33:44] They quote, talent tracking is our latest leap
[00:33:47] into the future.
[00:33:48] A revolutionary tool that's been designed from the ground
[00:33:51] up with responsible AI and unparalleled user experience.
[00:33:57] Top of mind.
[00:33:58] That's CEO Ashutosh Garra of Eightfold.
[00:34:03] Fuck you.
[00:34:05] It's an ATS.
[00:34:06] These guys are the masters of like shining a turd.
[00:34:11] Making like this is what they do.
[00:34:13] They put so many buzzwords and like what the cool kids
[00:34:18] are saying and consumers are going,
[00:34:20] what the fuck did they just say?
[00:34:23] But I'm all for it because AI and revolutionary
[00:34:27] and all these cool words are using it.
[00:34:30] These guys are, this is the emperor has no clothes.
[00:34:34] This is an ATS.
[00:34:36] This was revolutionary 25 years ago
[00:34:39] and you guys are acting like you just split the atom
[00:34:42] in 1945.
[00:34:44] Like fuck you, man.
[00:34:47] God, this company is so full of shit.
[00:34:50] Look, they got money, they built a product,
[00:34:53] they built a brand, they had a chance to sell it.
[00:34:56] They didn't.
[00:34:57] Okay.
[00:34:58] So now they're in a spot where let's hire Workday's guy.
[00:35:01] Let's build like everything for everybody
[00:35:04] and just like Workday, they're gonna be eh,
[00:35:07] okay for most things but not really great at everything
[00:35:10] and that's where this company is going.
[00:35:12] It'll be fun to watch and talk about
[00:35:14] but God, it's so frustrating to like read this shit
[00:35:18] and know that consumers are going,
[00:35:20] oh I bought a cool product.
[00:35:22] When you didn't, it's an A fucking T fucking S.
[00:35:26] Fucking eightfold man.
[00:35:28] Jenny Kangas, man please help me, help me.
[00:35:31] Our friend of the show is a new employee there.
[00:35:34] Help us understand this thing
[00:35:37] because from where I sit,
[00:35:38] this is a turd with some Shinola on it and nothing else.
[00:35:43] So and the interesting thing
[00:35:44] is Workday bought Hired Score, right?
[00:35:46] Who actually they did focus specifically on a domain
[00:35:50] and get that domain right.
[00:35:51] I think that it's kinda like the tale of two cities
[00:35:54] there, I mean obviously Hired Score
[00:35:55] didn't take hundreds of millions of dollars
[00:35:57] which I think was incredibly smart for Hired Score
[00:36:00] but again we're talking you know two tails here
[00:36:03] and Workday not buying eightfold, right?
[00:36:07] I mean after taking all that money,
[00:36:09] how the fuck, I mean that's just crazy cash
[00:36:11] but then being able to go after a company
[00:36:13] like Hired Score again, I mean I just think
[00:36:16] we talked about it on the show a million fucking times.
[00:36:19] There is such a thing as taking too much money.
[00:36:22] As a matter of fact, taking too much money
[00:36:24] will probably kick you in the nuts
[00:36:25] much faster than not getting enough.
[00:36:27] Doesn't anyone notice this?
[00:36:29] I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
[00:36:31] I'm on record, I'm not convinced Workday
[00:36:34] isn't gonna fuck up that acquisition.
[00:36:36] I'm on record, I'm on record.
[00:36:38] Well time will tell, time will tell.
[00:36:40] I need a breather, let's take a break
[00:36:42] and go back to the future everybody.
[00:36:50] Human resources is supposed to be about humans.
[00:36:53] I mean it's right there in the name
[00:36:55] but when your hiring team is more like
[00:36:57] an assembly line glued to their computers,
[00:37:00] manually posting heaps of jobs
[00:37:02] everywhere they can think of,
[00:37:04] that human part feels nowhere to be found.
[00:37:06] This is a new era.
[00:37:07] Pando IQ takes the mind numbing copy pasting
[00:37:11] and nerve wracking guess work
[00:37:12] out of the job posting process.
[00:37:14] When you plan a hiring campaign with Pando IQ,
[00:37:16] you tell us who you need.
[00:37:18] Then before you ever spend a cent,
[00:37:20] we predict what it will cost to find them.
[00:37:22] Pando IQ chooses the ideal recruiting sites
[00:37:24] from thousands of options,
[00:37:26] targeting the ones your next great hire frequently visits
[00:37:28] then fires off your ads at precisely calculated times,
[00:37:32] surfacing the most relevant applicants
[00:37:34] and then hiring them.
[00:37:35] Pando IQ is a great place to start your day
[00:37:37] with the best talent you can get
[00:37:39] and the best jobs you can get.
[00:37:41] Pando IQ is the best place for you to pick from.
[00:37:43] Now you're free to get to know the best talent,
[00:37:45] build great teams and take care of your humans.
[00:37:49] Pando IQ will do the rest
[00:37:50] so you can get back to doing what the computers can't.
[00:37:53] For more information on Pando IQ,
[00:37:55] go to pandologic.com.
[00:37:58] That's pandologic.com.
[00:38:03] I love that launching an ATS is cool.
[00:38:05] Let's go back to the future with starting.
[00:38:08] Elon Musk is doubling down on recruitment.
[00:38:12] X, the artist formerly known as Twitter
[00:38:14] is rolling out job recommendations in the US market,
[00:38:17] a continuation of the X hiring project
[00:38:21] that began life in July of last year.
[00:38:24] In a post on the site, X hiring announced,
[00:38:27] you can now start seeing personalized job recommendations
[00:38:31] directly on your timelines,
[00:38:33] tailored to your preferences, end quote.
[00:38:36] Chad, you've been pretty consistent
[00:38:37] on your less than glowing opinion of Musk and X jobs.
[00:38:42] Does this one change your mind?
[00:38:44] We have tech companies building models
[00:38:47] that are ingesting data, contextualizing
[00:38:49] and matching jobs candidates.
[00:38:50] We have companies who are building engagement
[00:38:54] in experience systems.
[00:38:55] We have large language models.
[00:38:57] We have all, I mean, multimodal.
[00:38:59] All this stuff is going on
[00:39:02] and yet this is the original job board job search agent
[00:39:06] that we had over 25 years ago.
[00:39:08] And I'm not saying that you have to be on the razor's edge
[00:39:12] of innovation in our space, but from what I'm seeing,
[00:39:15] Twitter doesn't even understand the basics
[00:39:18] or even where to start building
[00:39:19] today's engagement platform.
[00:39:21] And that's what you need to build
[00:39:23] if you wanna drive Musk like revenue.
[00:39:26] They're not gonna get there.
[00:39:28] They're lost in the sauce.
[00:39:30] If you know how to build a system from the ground up,
[00:39:35] you will look at this and say,
[00:39:36] these guys are throwing shit at the wall.
[00:39:38] They have no fucking clue what they're doing.
[00:39:40] And they're starting with 1998 job search shit,
[00:39:45] 97, 96 job search agents.
[00:39:48] This is ridiculous.
[00:39:50] That escalated quickly.
[00:39:51] So let's take a quick glance at Elon's resume.
[00:39:56] The dude launches rockets
[00:39:58] and then he brings them back and lands them.
[00:40:01] Okay, the Chinese can't figure that shit out.
[00:40:04] Okay, this guy revolutionized electric vehicles.
[00:40:08] I own a Tesla.
[00:40:10] It's amazing.
[00:40:11] Well, my wife owns a Tesla.
[00:40:13] She says it's amazing.
[00:40:15] And when she lets me drive it, it seems amazing.
[00:40:20] This is a guy who is giving internet to Ukraine
[00:40:24] from space as it's fighting Russia.
[00:40:27] I don't believe they're paying for it.
[00:40:28] This is a guy who's digging holes in Vegas,
[00:40:32] creating an entire like transit system
[00:40:34] under the ground in Vegas.
[00:40:36] Not anymore.
[00:40:37] And this, this is innovation?
[00:40:40] Like this, this is what they're doing?
[00:40:43] I can do, I get nothing.
[00:40:44] Oh man.
[00:40:45] I mean, there's low-hanging fruit.
[00:40:47] Apparently they're not getting enough subscribers
[00:40:49] to their service and jobs is low-hanging fruit.
[00:40:53] I mean, he's talked shit about LinkedIn
[00:40:55] every week for the last year.
[00:40:57] Let's see some LinkedIn competitor shit.
[00:41:00] Let's see like some real shit.
[00:41:02] Showing me jobs in my feed isn't innovation, dude.
[00:41:07] Like I just, I'm so disappointed that he just,
[00:41:12] he's out of his element, dude.
[00:41:14] Get out a higher CEO that knows tech
[00:41:17] or has done this shit before.
[00:41:19] An ex, like someone from LinkedIn.
[00:41:21] Like that would be interesting.
[00:41:22] And do LinkedIn stuff from LinkedIn.
[00:41:26] This is a guy who is a genius
[00:41:28] and this is what innovation is out of Twitter hiring,
[00:41:31] ex-hiring, whatever the fuck we're calling it.
[00:41:33] Like they might get a few more clicks
[00:41:35] from their relationship with AppCast
[00:41:37] or whoever's putting jobs on there now,
[00:41:39] but man, there seems no traction of companies
[00:41:43] like getting the gold check and get my jobs on there.
[00:41:46] Like they're not, those are the releases I wanna see.
[00:41:49] Not some crazy jobs in your feed everybody.
[00:41:52] Yay.
[00:41:53] Really disappointing, really disappointing.
[00:41:55] The biggest issue that we have here
[00:41:57] is that they know what their problem is
[00:42:01] and that's lack of user data, okay?
[00:42:03] And when we talk about user data,
[00:42:05] we mean like LinkedIn has pretty much
[00:42:07] our whole profile on there.
[00:42:08] Our whole career profile, right?
[00:42:10] Twitter doesn't have that.
[00:42:12] They're not gonna gain access to it.
[00:42:13] So what are they gonna do?
[00:42:14] Well, they're just gonna go into
[00:42:16] tell me what you want and we'll deliver it bullshit.
[00:42:18] I mean, again, this to me,
[00:42:22] this is not where you start, okay?
[00:42:24] You have the ability to actually start building
[00:42:29] and engaging your users to get more data from them.
[00:42:33] This is not it.
[00:42:34] This is not it.
[00:42:36] You know what I would be more impressed with?
[00:42:38] Well, I would be more impressed if Twitter said,
[00:42:40] you know what?
[00:42:41] Every time someone tweets out,
[00:42:42] I hate my job, my boss is an asshole,
[00:42:45] like fuck the man.
[00:42:47] We're gonna give them jobs
[00:42:49] because we know they're pissed at their workplace
[00:42:51] and we're gonna give them jobs based on where they are,
[00:42:53] geolocating jobs.
[00:42:55] That's something, that's new.
[00:42:57] Like that's something you can do
[00:42:59] that most other people can't,
[00:43:00] but no, we get, yeah,
[00:43:02] recommended jobs in your feed everybody.
[00:43:04] Well, if they did that
[00:43:06] and then they could also have,
[00:43:07] they could partner with companies
[00:43:09] that actually already have a lot of profile data
[00:43:11] or they could make it easier
[00:43:13] to make their profile more robust,
[00:43:16] but they're just,
[00:43:17] they're not going through that process
[00:43:18] and that's where you start.
[00:43:19] You don't start with this bullshit.
[00:43:21] That's a, this is not where you start.
[00:43:23] Anyway, stupid.
[00:43:24] Connect my Twitter email
[00:43:27] with my application at whatever company
[00:43:31] and grab my profile from the ATS,
[00:43:34] bring it into the data set of what I have on Twitter
[00:43:37] and serve me jobs based on what my resume is
[00:43:41] from my ATS application.
[00:43:43] Like there's so much cool shit they could do,
[00:43:45] but this is what they get, man.
[00:43:46] This is, oh.
[00:43:47] 60% of the time it works every time.
[00:43:51] All right, more back to the future shit.
[00:43:54] That's right, I wanna play the sound bite again.
[00:43:56] Stack Overflow has partnered with Indeed
[00:44:01] on a quote new version of Stack Overflow jobs.
[00:44:05] This experiment will explore a dedicated space
[00:44:08] that puts thousands of highly relevant jobs
[00:44:10] at the fingerprints of developers.
[00:44:12] The job site is currently available in the US
[00:44:15] and may eventually expand to more markets.
[00:44:18] It's a co-branded job board, Chad.
[00:44:19] How innovative, your thoughts?
[00:44:21] Yeah, remember back in the job backfill Olympics days
[00:44:26] when Indeed and Simply Hired were literally racing
[00:44:29] to build search widgets and blog job search platforms
[00:44:34] just to say that they've got their shit out there
[00:44:37] all over the place.
[00:44:38] This is the same thing.
[00:44:39] I mean, and that was over a decade ago.
[00:44:41] So here we go again.
[00:44:43] I was a huge proponent of Stack
[00:44:44] going into the jobs business
[00:44:46] because they have enough data on their user base
[00:44:49] to feed relevant jobs,
[00:44:50] which was why I was surprised when they shut it down.
[00:44:54] And now to be replaced with this seems incredibly lazy.
[00:44:59] Why is it lazy?
[00:45:01] Here's a quote off the Stack Overflow website.
[00:45:03] Quote, Stack Overflow and Indeed
[00:45:05] have clearly defined criteria based on job title,
[00:45:09] job title to ensure jobs posted on Stack Overflow jobs
[00:45:13] are relevant to a technical audience, end quote.
[00:45:17] Yes kids, job titles.
[00:45:19] Not relevance, not fit the skills, no matching,
[00:45:23] just keyword search variables.
[00:45:25] The same shit that we were doing back in the late 1990s.
[00:45:29] I don't understand this.
[00:45:31] Indeed's got to be some kind of revenue play here,
[00:45:34] some form, some fashion, sharing click, click money,
[00:45:38] who knows?
[00:45:39] But I mean, this is just weak sauce.
[00:45:42] You done messed up, A.A. Ron.
[00:45:44] So speaking of Back to the Future,
[00:45:46] when I worked at Job Options,
[00:45:48] our entire marketing strategy was,
[00:45:50] and acquisition strategy was partnerships.
[00:45:54] And I was the partnership dude at one point
[00:45:57] where we would just put a jobs link on these sites
[00:46:01] and we would create like a white label,
[00:46:03] co-branded job site.
[00:46:05] People would search for jobs
[00:46:06] and then we would split revenue if someone posted a job,
[00:46:09] they'd get 30%, we get 70, whatever.
[00:46:13] And then Indeed happened and APIs happened
[00:46:16] and search happened and it became really easy
[00:46:20] for someone to plug in an API
[00:46:22] and do searches and have jobs
[00:46:23] and then on a pay-per-click basis,
[00:46:25] you'd get paid a portion of the click.
[00:46:27] Like AdSense kind of took that model
[00:46:31] out of circulation.
[00:46:33] And I can remember paying some bigger sites
[00:46:36] quite a bit of money at the time
[00:46:37] for like the real estate to have a job section.
[00:46:40] We had some portals that are no longer around,
[00:46:42] but we would pay them for that privilege.
[00:46:44] For whatever reason, I mean, Indeed has killed
[00:46:47] their API thing.
[00:46:49] I don't know if it was like competitive
[00:46:50] to like put job boards out of business
[00:46:52] or like stick it to whatever, there's too much spam
[00:46:55] or maybe fraud, maybe click fraud was a big issue.
[00:46:58] I don't know, but they killed it.
[00:47:00] And then a few months or a year later,
[00:47:02] they're like, oh, we're doing this network thing.
[00:47:05] We have healthcare and we have tech
[00:47:07] and all these little partnerships.
[00:47:09] I'm like, you had it.
[00:47:10] So I don't know what happened to where they kind of went back
[00:47:14] and then are coming back.
[00:47:16] I agree that the Stack Overflow
[00:47:17] is a nice partnership to have.
[00:47:20] Stack Overflow is very non-committal on this though.
[00:47:23] They're like, we're in the US,
[00:47:25] we may launch it somewhere else.
[00:47:28] Literally the press release from the CEO of Stack Overflow
[00:47:32] was quote, our primary goal with Stack Overflow jobs
[00:47:35] is to simply learn.
[00:47:36] Does that sound like a committed company
[00:47:40] ready to put jobs in front of the users?
[00:47:41] Probably because their users hate jobs.
[00:47:43] Their users aren't like, they say that users like jobs,
[00:47:46] but I bet like it's a thing that people don't like
[00:47:49] on Stack Overflow that want jobs
[00:47:50] to get headhunter calls all the time.
[00:47:52] I think Indeed is writing a check.
[00:47:55] I think Indeed is writing a big check
[00:47:57] and Stack Overflow is like, we can't say no.
[00:47:59] They made them an offer they couldn't refuse.
[00:48:01] He took the deal, but he's also saying like,
[00:48:03] hey, it's just kind of a thing.
[00:48:05] We're just learning here.
[00:48:07] We're just cashing checks.
[00:48:08] It's all good.
[00:48:09] And then Indeed can go to their customers and go,
[00:48:12] hey man, we got this cool network of tech people.
[00:48:15] We're on Stack Overflow,
[00:48:16] which puts more money in Indeed's pocket.
[00:48:18] So I think this is just like money in Stack Overflow,
[00:48:21] Indeed's writing a check.
[00:48:22] They're sucking it out of customers who are like,
[00:48:24] oh, we need tech people
[00:48:25] and Indeed has this partnership with Stack Overflow.
[00:48:29] It's regurgitating the past.
[00:48:31] It's a lot of it's because Google traffic has slowed
[00:48:35] down so we've got to like find other ways to do it.
[00:48:38] By the way, we don't talk enough on this show
[00:48:39] about generative AI and search results on Google.
[00:48:42] Like almost every Google search now is just like,
[00:48:45] here's the answer.
[00:48:46] I don't have to click on a site.
[00:48:47] I don't have to go anywhere.
[00:48:48] Like that's really bad.
[00:48:49] They give you the source.
[00:48:50] Not just for big sites,
[00:48:51] but that's really bad for little sites
[00:48:53] and like content creators.
[00:48:55] That's hitting Indeed and everybody else.
[00:48:57] So they need to find ways to put jobs
[00:48:58] in front of people through these partnerships.
[00:49:01] This is just another example of what they're doing.
[00:49:03] I expect them to hit the healthcare market pretty heavy
[00:49:06] here in the next 12, 24 months as well.
[00:49:08] We'll be talking about those partnerships.
[00:49:10] It just seems like a couple of, once again,
[00:49:12] two markets that are not the same at all
[00:49:15] and that Indeed they're not experts in.
[00:49:18] So it'll be interesting.
[00:49:21] Again, I think this is more jazz hands
[00:49:24] than anything else.
[00:49:24] Look at what I have here.
[00:49:26] Look at what I have here.
[00:49:27] Yeah, but you don't have the people actually engaging.
[00:49:30] You don't have the outcomes.
[00:49:31] And not to mention if you could get all that fucking data
[00:49:36] and you can match against it.
[00:49:37] Oh, oh wait a minute.
[00:49:38] Your matching sucks.
[00:49:39] I guess it doesn't matter.
[00:49:40] We learned at job options
[00:49:42] that roughly three to 5% of the traffic
[00:49:45] actually will click on jobs.
[00:49:47] So Indeed's gonna sell this as like,
[00:49:50] hey man, everybody on Stack Overflow
[00:49:52] is going to the jobs
[00:49:53] and they're checking your shit out.
[00:49:54] Especially with this audience,
[00:49:56] I bet it's like one to 2%
[00:49:58] are gonna click over and look for jobs.
[00:50:00] So look, if you're an employer
[00:50:02] and you get a call from Indeed
[00:50:03] and they start pitching Stack Overflow
[00:50:05] and how hot it is and how cool it is,
[00:50:07] do some data dive
[00:50:09] and see what kind of percentage actual traffic
[00:50:12] from Stack Overflow is going to the jobs.
[00:50:15] Lots of luck kids, lots of luck.
[00:50:17] Enough of this trip down memory lane.
[00:50:20] Let's get back to what we know best, OnlyFans.
[00:50:24] We'll be right back.
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[00:51:20] All right, I'm in Euro Chad mode
[00:51:22] and this has been really a downer episode
[00:51:25] because all these companies we're talking about
[00:51:27] are doing stupid shit.
[00:51:28] Can you give me something
[00:51:30] that will uplift everybody's soul, please?
[00:51:33] I will categorize this as the
[00:51:34] why we can't have nice things discussion.
[00:51:38] But so let's set the table here.
[00:51:41] There's an organization,
[00:51:42] they're kind of artsy charity thing.
[00:51:44] It's good portals.org I think.
[00:51:46] So they take this big circle thing,
[00:51:49] it's called the portal
[00:51:51] and they connect two communities to each other
[00:51:53] around the world and it's like a camera,
[00:51:56] a live stream of people in an area.
[00:51:59] It's like a big Facebook portal, right?
[00:52:02] It's kind of a big creepy Lord of the Rings,
[00:52:05] eye in the sky thing that you can kind of see through
[00:52:08] and see people.
[00:52:09] So you've probably seen this on the news.
[00:52:11] They recently connected Dublin, Ireland
[00:52:14] with New York City.
[00:52:16] No problem there.
[00:52:17] Who thought that was a good idea
[00:52:18] needs to check themselves
[00:52:20] because these are two demographics.
[00:52:22] Let's be honest,
[00:52:23] are prone to a little bit of knuckleheadedness.
[00:52:26] Okay.
[00:52:27] So Ireland starts showing pictures
[00:52:30] of like the World Trade Center,
[00:52:32] the twin towers burning.
[00:52:34] They started it, Ireland started it
[00:52:35] from what I understand.
[00:52:36] So then New Yorkers start putting like
[00:52:39] pictures of potatoes,
[00:52:41] just like stupid shit, right?
[00:52:43] Flipping them off, suck it Ireland, whatever.
[00:52:47] So you know where this is going dude.
[00:52:49] You know where this is going.
[00:52:50] A New Yorker, her name is Ava Louise,
[00:52:54] probably not her real name.
[00:52:55] She decides to flash the Dublin faithful.
[00:53:00] I don't think there were any angry customers on that,
[00:53:02] but it sparked outrage
[00:53:05] and it has shut down the portal for now.
[00:53:08] It probably never will come back on
[00:53:10] between Dublin and New York.
[00:53:12] It needs to be like Boise and I don't know,
[00:53:15] Cork or something.
[00:53:16] No, Cork's probably even worse.
[00:53:17] Anyway, so the jokes on us,
[00:53:21] so Ava, she's on OnlyFans.
[00:53:24] Imagine that she's on OnlyFans.
[00:53:26] So there's no bad advertising.
[00:53:28] There's only good advertising.
[00:53:29] Especially with boobies.
[00:53:31] I mean, come on.
[00:53:31] She's gone from 400,000 Instagram followers,
[00:53:34] which was not too shabby.
[00:53:35] I think to like 450 the last time I checked
[00:53:38] for flashing her boobs
[00:53:39] and sex sells as you know, Chad.
[00:53:42] So she's increased her monthly revenue
[00:53:47] on OnlyFans after this incident.
[00:53:49] 8,000 pounds per month.
[00:53:51] What is that?
[00:53:52] That's like 9,000, $10,000 in USD.
[00:53:56] Yeah, this is an English story so I don't know.
[00:53:58] But yeah, for flashing Ireland,
[00:54:02] she's getting 10,000 more dollars per month
[00:54:04] on her OnlyFans thanks to her transatlantic flashing.
[00:54:08] This is why we can't have nice things, Chad.
[00:54:11] First and foremost, let's just be frank here.
[00:54:14] Everybody loves boobies.
[00:54:16] I mean boobs are welcomed everywhere.
[00:54:19] Universal.
[00:54:20] They're universally loved.
[00:54:21] Right, yes.
[00:54:22] So I think she was just trying
[00:54:24] to bring the temperature down, which I appreciate.
[00:54:28] And I think to be quite frank,
[00:54:30] we should probably do this whole boobies tour
[00:54:33] all over the world to bring the temperature down guys.
[00:54:36] Bring the temperature down.
[00:54:37] And just so that everybody out there knows,
[00:54:40] we're going to have a Chad and Cheese portal
[00:54:42] where we're going to invite Ava
[00:54:45] and the rest of the world to bring the temperature down
[00:54:50] because Chad and Cheese and all of you love boobies
[00:54:53] and we love to deescalate issues.
[00:54:56] Chad and Cheese do love boobies everybody.
[00:54:59] Her quote was that she just wanted
[00:55:01] to show Ireland her potatoes.
[00:55:03] Appropriate, appropriate.
[00:55:05] By the way, Chad, I haven't gotten a dad joke
[00:55:07] in this week.
[00:55:08] How do you make an Irishman cry?
[00:55:11] Take away his Guinness.
[00:55:12] Say last call, we out.
[00:55:16] Thank you for listening to what's it called?
[00:55:19] A podcast, the Chad, the Cheese.
[00:55:23] Brilliant.
[00:55:24] They talk about recruiting.
[00:55:25] They talk about technology.
[00:55:27] But most of all, they talk about nothing.
[00:55:30] Just a lot of shout outs of people
[00:55:32] you don't even know and yet you're listening.
[00:55:35] It's incredible.
[00:55:36] And not one word about cheese, not one.
[00:55:39] Cheddar, blue, nacho, pepper jack, Swiss.
[00:55:44] So many cheeses and not one word.
[00:55:48] So weird.
[00:55:49] Anywho, be sure to subscribe today on iTunes,
[00:55:53] Spotify, Google Play or wherever you listen
[00:55:57] to your podcasts.
[00:55:58] That way you won't miss an episode.
[00:56:01] And while you're at it,
[00:56:02] visit www.chadcheese.com.
[00:56:06] Just don't expect to find any recipes
[00:56:10] for grilled cheese.
[00:56:11] So weird.
[00:56:13] We out.
[00:56:14] You've got questions, we've got answers.
[00:56:17] Business leadership, ownership and sales can be challenging.
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[00:56:30] as I chat with people who have expertise
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[00:56:37] that are focused on providing you
[00:56:38] with the ideas, tips and suggestions
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