Why nothing gets done?

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Talent Rebelcast, my name is Elin Bailey and along with me is my co-host

[00:00:09] Tracy Parsons.

[00:00:10] Tracy and I have been getting together for what seems like forever now, well should chat

[00:00:15] about talent.

[00:00:16] One day after a few too many cocktails we thought what the heck let's press record

[00:00:21] and that's how we got here.

[00:00:23] We hope you'll listen in and find this a little bit fun, interesting and just

[00:00:28] the teeniest bit inspiring.

[00:00:30] So without further ado let's get this party started.

[00:00:41] Good morning Elin how are you today?

[00:00:43] I am Kathleen Turner I'm getting over a cold so I've got the deep husky today.

[00:00:48] He got the husky raspy.

[00:00:49] You want to know what's so sad is I feel like there's a whole generation of people

[00:00:52] who are listening to this we were like the what?

[00:00:56] The Kathleen who?

[00:00:57] Chandler Banks dad.

[00:00:59] Oh my God they don't even get that.

[00:01:02] They might.

[00:01:03] I'm telling you they might.

[00:01:04] Do you really think our audience is that young?

[00:01:06] Come on.

[00:01:07] How about I put this way I'm not so sure I would say our audience is that young I

[00:01:11] might say we have gotten that mature.

[00:01:14] Well okay.

[00:01:15] Yeah you're like I don't know I don't know yeah I don't I'm not sure I see the

[00:01:20] difference there but okay okay well I'm just saying we'll go with it I'm just

[00:01:24] trying to you know down there.

[00:01:26] Chandler Banks dad.

[00:01:28] I know I purposely didn't ask you how your day was because I already know.

[00:01:31] Oh yeah it was so delightful and it already is I mean it's off to a great start yesterday

[00:01:37] was a shit show and today seems to be the sequel.

[00:01:41] I love this I love this because I don't love that you had a shit show day that

[00:01:45] sounds bad but I love that you're so honest about it God that's not a form

[00:01:49] I love this I love that your day sucks no no no congratulations on your shit show

[00:01:53] day.

[00:01:54] No what I wanted to say was I love that you're so transparent and honest about

[00:01:59] the fact that some days just suck ass I mean yeah it's just bad and I completely

[00:02:05] get it this this I think where you're at right now is a fabulous conversation

[00:02:10] for us to have with our with our audience today.

[00:02:13] I agree.

[00:02:14] I love the way you said it earlier where you said this is why nothing ever

[00:02:19] freaking gets done.

[00:02:21] Right right so what is it tell me what is it why why Tracy does nothing ever get

[00:02:27] done.

[00:02:28] There are too many egos and power struggles and opinions that are antiquated

[00:02:35] and wrong that are baked in a lack of trust and faith in workers and

[00:02:42] humanity is the reason that nothing gets done so that there are there are

[00:02:47] hiring managers and leaders and decision makers in the C suite and below

[00:02:51] that are writing checks for HR tech systems and consultants and employer

[00:02:55] brand work and none of them trust the candidate or the employee to know

[00:03:00] what the fuck they're talking about to know what the fuck they know and

[00:03:04] they don't trust them.

[00:03:05] They all think they're trying to pull the wool over each other's eyes

[00:03:08] and guess what that makes them make bad decisions and put bad processes

[00:03:13] and experiences in place because they don't trust the end user and

[00:03:18] because their ego is so big that they think they're the only ones that

[00:03:21] know the master list of skills in the world.

[00:03:26] It's true.

[00:03:27] I think this is the problem statement of our generation when it comes to

[00:03:33] work at the end of the day we have a trust deficit that is humongous

[00:03:40] somehow and I don't know what I mean there's probably a lot of

[00:03:44] anthropology and psychology around how this happens.

[00:03:47] But at some point people get to a point within their careers where they

[00:03:51] absolutely believe that they are where they're at because they knew

[00:03:56] something everybody else didn't know and everybody else was wrong.

[00:03:59] And they approach every situation as if they are trying to debunk

[00:04:04] somebody else's fallacy rather than approach it from the perspective

[00:04:08] that says hey this is something maybe is a different perspective

[00:04:12] or I haven't learned this before.

[00:04:13] I don't know what this is talk to me about how this works right.

[00:04:17] Everything is approached from the perspective that the other person

[00:04:20] is trying to fool you or is somehow making it up or is somehow not accurate.

[00:04:27] I think this is why inclusion and diversity doesn't work.

[00:04:29] I think this is why we can't do internal mobility.

[00:04:32] I think this is why we keep asking the questions why is nobody

[00:04:36] listening to the fact that we have talent gaps and talent problems

[00:04:39] across our organizations and why are they doing something about it.

[00:04:41] I think this is why we have battle lines between IT and HR over who own systems.

[00:04:48] Every root cause business challenge that we face that prevents us from being

[00:04:53] able to cross the finish line with stuff in some coming back to people

[00:04:58] inherently are not trusting each other.

[00:05:01] It's past trust they don't respect each other.

[00:05:04] They just assume everybody else is full of shit or dumb or both.

[00:05:09] It's really frustrating to me because I you know if you were following me on

[00:05:12] Twitter yesterday you know that there's this ongoing saga of me working

[00:05:16] with a customer full of mansplainers and they really don't like when I answer

[00:05:22] the question with technical acumen because believe it or not.

[00:05:26] You guys I write code like I know what I'm doing with ones and zeros

[00:05:31] might not seem like it.

[00:05:33] You might let the sunny disposition go.

[00:05:35] She couldn't possibly know where to put things in a in a code base.

[00:05:39] Oh, but I do and I will explain something and then they will question it.

[00:05:45] And then my male counterpart will explain it repeatedly saying as Tracy said.

[00:05:51] And then as soon as it comes out of a mouth that doesn't have boobs

[00:05:57] it holds water and it's it's a really frustrating experience.

[00:06:01] But it boils down to that fact.

[00:06:03] It's beyond that.

[00:06:05] Right. So it's you're right.

[00:06:05] It's why diversity and inclusion doesn't work as it should

[00:06:09] because there's this inherent lack of trust because we have all of these biases.

[00:06:14] And it's frankly why we can't get remote hybrid work working

[00:06:17] because people don't trust not seeing their employees.

[00:06:20] Like there is this inherent lack of trust.

[00:06:23] Right. And I am over it.

[00:06:25] I am I am so over it.

[00:06:28] I am beside myself.

[00:06:30] And this complete lack of trust and ability to look at an individual

[00:06:37] and assume both good intent and knowledge is breaking us.

[00:06:43] Right. We cannot we cannot move forward.

[00:06:45] So this is so if everybody wants to know now I know I'm going back

[00:06:48] on the same conversation that we always go back on.

[00:06:50] But to me, this is quintessentially at the root

[00:06:53] of what everybody's calling the great resignation, the realignment, etc.

[00:06:58] Everybody, right, who is tired of having to deal with this shit

[00:07:01] is raising up their hands and saying, fuck you.

[00:07:04] I know when and how to work.

[00:07:06] I know what I'm responsible for.

[00:07:09] I have skills and capabilities.

[00:07:11] Please trust me to execute them and treat me like a freaking adult.

[00:07:16] How am I supposed?

[00:07:17] I mean, think about it.

[00:07:19] How badly do we make people feel in the workplace?

[00:07:24] And what is the downstream social implications

[00:07:27] that by the time they go home and how shitty do they feel about themselves?

[00:07:30] We just treat people like shit.

[00:07:33] We lose all self-esteem for each other.

[00:07:35] I and and I just make me mad.

[00:07:38] I'm ranting, but it makes me mad, but it is incredibly frustrating.

[00:07:42] This is the core problem.

[00:07:44] And because it is this lack of trust, it could be ego driven.

[00:07:47] It could be anything.

[00:07:48] But this is but on the flip side.

[00:07:50] So I think there's two things happening here

[00:07:52] that I want to get out of my brain.

[00:07:53] One is you mentioned the anthropological implications of this, like what what happened.

[00:07:58] I think it is because organizations part with money to their people.

[00:08:05] Yeah. So they're they're paying them money

[00:08:07] and they feel like that they have to give value.

[00:08:09] But I'm here to tell you that the manager who pushes back on internal mobility

[00:08:14] or pushes back on your slate of candidates or pushes back on wanting to see more people

[00:08:20] that person ain't right.

[00:08:20] Nobody's goddamn check.

[00:08:22] Right. So it has nothing to do with them.

[00:08:24] This is nothing coming out of their their pocket.

[00:08:28] And so but they still take that ownership

[00:08:30] like it is something coming away from them.

[00:08:32] So that's one point that.

[00:08:34] So I think that there's something there that they associate money

[00:08:38] and their skin in the game, something is happening.

[00:08:41] No, I want to get hold that one.

[00:08:42] I want to go back to it.

[00:08:43] No, go ahead. Let's talk about that.

[00:08:44] OK, I'll tell you what I think it is.

[00:08:47] I think it's basic human nature around control and power.

[00:08:51] OK, I think it is the same issue.

[00:08:54] Remember that and I'm going to I know it's a famous study

[00:08:57] and I should know it off the top of my head the name of it.

[00:08:59] But remember the study they did with prisons

[00:09:02] and they took just general people and they did the study

[00:09:06] and they said you get to be a prisoner and you get to be a guard

[00:09:10] and they tracked behavior and what happened and what they saw was

[00:09:14] huge amounts of abuse of power, this immediate sense

[00:09:19] that the people who were thought they were the guards were better

[00:09:22] than those who weren't and it resulted in control behaviors

[00:09:27] that resulted in abusive behaviors.

[00:09:29] It was a really interesting study.

[00:09:31] But basically what it said was is when you take a society of people,

[00:09:35] right, a group of people, there's a hierarchical framework to it.

[00:09:39] And the hierarchy is based on the idea that in order for me

[00:09:42] to be better than you, I have to assume or in order for me to

[00:09:46] be in charge, I have to assume I'm better than you.

[00:09:49] And if I have to assume I'm better than you, then I have to

[00:09:52] and I have any self confidence issues of my own,

[00:09:55] then I have to figure out ways to put you down and to create a way

[00:09:59] in my mind to justify the fact that you are not as worthy as I am.

[00:10:04] And so you get all these middle managers who are causing the gap problem,

[00:10:09] right, in the middle for us.

[00:10:11] And because they're having all these self-esteem issues

[00:10:14] being pushed down from above, right?

[00:10:16] All these leaders who are treating them like shit so they can feel better.

[00:10:20] So they push it on down.

[00:10:21] It's the reason why bullies are bullied at home.

[00:10:24] So they bully at school, so they bully the kid, right?

[00:10:26] It's that same we just.

[00:10:28] OK, nobody breaks the cycle.

[00:10:30] Here's the problem and the cycle is being broken right now

[00:10:32] because nobody wants to work for any of these motherfuckers.

[00:10:35] This is what I'm saying.

[00:10:36] This is why the whole system is broken.

[00:10:37] All of this is happening in them again.

[00:10:39] Yesterday was a shit show.

[00:10:41] Today is the sequel.

[00:10:42] And all I am all I am coming down with is the fact that the reason

[00:10:46] that nothing gets done in our space is because of a fear of shit.

[00:10:52] All the shit managers that are out there, we don't want to piss them off.

[00:10:57] Why are we kowtowing to these bad managers?

[00:10:59] Because yesterday I left this meeting and immediately went to have a beer

[00:11:04] because that was the only logical next step after a two hour

[00:11:09] flogging was to have a beer.

[00:11:11] And I looked at my notes and I was like, holy shit,

[00:11:16] I could legitimately go to the leaders of this company and say,

[00:11:19] you could remove this entire team because I could automate their jobs

[00:11:22] completely with my software.

[00:11:23] They don't realize how asking you to automate their job could cost them their job.

[00:11:30] So we're doing that.

[00:11:31] Well, what am I doing with that?

[00:11:32] I'm not going to say one.

[00:11:34] I know. But I wasn't asking you specifically.

[00:11:39] What you're doing. Oh, my goodness.

[00:11:41] You were all here first.

[00:11:43] No, I'm not. I mean, no, that's not happening.

[00:11:45] But I'm just my point is, is that we are living in constant fear

[00:11:51] of these bad manager bullies. Yeah.

[00:11:54] We are not playing the trigger.

[00:11:55] Now I will I'm going to poke a hole in your guard prisoner.

[00:11:59] OK, the area. OK, good.

[00:12:01] So that makes sense.

[00:12:03] There's logic there.

[00:12:04] That research is apples to apples when it comes to the work environment.

[00:12:09] So when somebody gets into a managerial state status,

[00:12:12] that means that they are in a guard versus prisoner.

[00:12:16] Boy, that's illustrative.

[00:12:18] But I am.

[00:12:20] Ouch, ouch.

[00:12:22] It does not hold water.

[00:12:24] You're illustrating why we have such problems with candidate experience

[00:12:28] because these hiring managers think that they're trying to hire more prisoners.

[00:12:33] Oh, my God, this analogy is killing me.

[00:12:35] They're trying to hire more prisoners to work for them.

[00:12:38] And the and the candidates are like, yeah, no, I don't I'm not down.

[00:12:44] This is illuminating that that mindset is failing us.

[00:12:49] Hugely failing us.

[00:12:51] Hugely failing us.

[00:12:52] So I'll break it here.

[00:12:54] Maybe first I'm working on something

[00:12:56] because I'm getting ready to go to a presentation next week

[00:12:59] to get a business transformation conference,

[00:13:02] which a whole bunch of ops managers, not kind of our people have a new audience of folks.

[00:13:07] And I was trying to break down in a simple way, how I could explain to them

[00:13:11] what people are really looking for.

[00:13:13] Right. What is this really all about?

[00:13:15] And I built a I'm playing with the formula.

[00:13:18] Right. So I'll throw this out.

[00:13:19] You can tell me what this formula starts to look like.

[00:13:22] So I said, listen, at the end of the day, there are two elements to this.

[00:13:26] There is what you give somebody we're used to that.

[00:13:29] Right. You do work, I give you this.

[00:13:31] And we have always made that about pay.

[00:13:33] I give it and by the way, pay super important.

[00:13:36] I will pay you prisoner for your time and effort.

[00:13:40] Right. But the problem is, is that

[00:13:43] a really increasingly uncomfortable with this.

[00:13:46] No, I know the worker is now looking up and saying, OK, pay is not enough for me.

[00:13:50] I also need to have I want to be able to feel like I'm doing something of value

[00:13:54] to the world or to myself that has some sort of resonance and purpose.

[00:13:58] And then I also there's a third piece of this,

[00:14:00] want to be able to know that I am getting something that is transferable

[00:14:04] past when I'm here with you.

[00:14:05] That's all that personal growth.

[00:14:06] So how do I what skills do I learn?

[00:14:09] What do I get that makes me more marketable in the world?

[00:14:14] Now pay is pay purpose and personal growth.

[00:14:17] I have to have all three of those.

[00:14:19] Yeah. But it gets multiplied by what's going on in your organization.

[00:14:23] Do you provide flexibility?

[00:14:25] Is it real flexibility?

[00:14:26] Is it flexibility that comes with flexibility plus autonomy,

[00:14:30] which means I allow flexibility, but I also trust that you know how to use it.

[00:14:36] Right. Like I'm not going to look at you go.

[00:14:37] It's flexible on Tuesdays.

[00:14:40] On Thursdays, we're unflexible.

[00:14:43] On Thursdays, you must sit in this cube.

[00:14:45] On Tuesdays, you can do whatever you want.

[00:14:47] But that way I know at least I get, you know, that's my no, no,

[00:14:51] that's not that's not flexible hybrid bullshit.

[00:14:53] No, whatever. OK.

[00:14:55] So flexibility plus real autonomy plus the company has to have some stability to it.

[00:15:01] Right. Right. Are you normal?

[00:15:05] Right. Or are you like free to reorganizing every other two days?

[00:15:08] Right. Or are you going to blow out on your next kind of big piece?

[00:15:12] So people are looking for pay purpose and personal growth

[00:15:16] times flexibility, autonomy and stability.

[00:15:19] However, we've got this middle, this manager level

[00:15:23] who's going out and hiring people and their view of what they're looking for is

[00:15:28] prove to me it immediately starts with this

[00:15:31] prove to me that you are worthy of my shit job.

[00:15:36] Right. And they're getting really mad

[00:15:38] that candidates are saying prove to me that you're worthy of my time.

[00:15:43] That's right. Skills. That's right.

[00:15:45] And we're getting to this inflection point where I'm going to be honest,

[00:15:49] I started pulling the data for this quarter.

[00:15:53] I started looking at the data already. Yeah.

[00:15:56] I mean, it's gotten a little bit better from summer, but they're still pissed.

[00:16:00] And here's the deal.

[00:16:01] Here's what I think is going to happen. Right.

[00:16:04] I think that the uprising is now going to start to happen

[00:16:08] in a way people are not anticipating.

[00:16:11] You are right. OK. There isn't.

[00:16:14] I have a let's say somebody I know really well.

[00:16:19] Who owns a real estate company?

[00:16:22] They buy commercial properties and etc.

[00:16:24] And was debating with me about how important it was

[00:16:29] and how excited he was to get all of his workers back in the office.

[00:16:33] Right. Because I really, really wanted.

[00:16:35] He knew that's what they wanted and they wanted to be there.

[00:16:37] I was like, I don't know.

[00:16:39] Are you sure? Are you sure? But OK.

[00:16:42] But here's what I think is going to.

[00:16:43] He said, well, even if they don't

[00:16:45] and even if they choose to quit now, they're going to come back

[00:16:47] because they have to get a pay like somebody.

[00:16:50] I am like everybody else and somebody's going to have to get paid them

[00:16:53] and people need money at the end of the day.

[00:16:55] And I was like, hmm, so I thought about that for a while.

[00:16:57] And I said, oh, no, no, this is what I think is going to happen.

[00:17:00] I think everybody's going to get a misnomer

[00:17:04] and believe things are back up on the upswing

[00:17:06] because people are going to start accepting jobs,

[00:17:08] even if they're bullshit jobs.

[00:17:09] The difference is their mindset around those jobs is completely different.

[00:17:14] It is this is a bullshit job

[00:17:16] and I am not choosing to invest any real energy in it.

[00:17:18] And it's temporary in my mind.

[00:17:21] It is until I get something that does meet what I'm looking to do.

[00:17:25] So you got all these people who are out there in the marketplace.

[00:17:28] And yeah, sure, they've got to make ends meet

[00:17:30] and they'll figure out a way to do it.

[00:17:32] But it's not going to be this nirvana

[00:17:34] that all these work these workplaces think

[00:17:36] it's going to be where everybody's going to come back

[00:17:38] and shift and shuffle to their job.

[00:17:40] The idea of everybody's calling this the reshuffling,

[00:17:42] I think it's bullshit.

[00:17:44] We're momentary reshuffle.

[00:17:46] We're still seeing an uptick in

[00:17:49] we're still seeing an uptick in new business,

[00:17:51] small business creation.

[00:17:53] So last year was a 24% lift from year on year

[00:17:56] that it's continuing in that trajectory.

[00:17:58] So people are so people are opting out.

[00:18:00] They I saw data.

[00:18:02] I think it was from the Atlantic.

[00:18:03] It might not have been the Atlantic,

[00:18:04] but it was one of those high brow pubs, you know?

[00:18:08] The one of the smarty pants pubs.

[00:18:10] They fancy it was essentially a lot of it was retirement.

[00:18:15] So so a lot of I think it was of the seven million lost jobs.

[00:18:20] Recently, like people, seven million people that opted out,

[00:18:23] not lost jobs, lost workers,

[00:18:25] seven million people are opting out five and a half

[00:18:27] were retirements or early retirements.

[00:18:30] Right. So we're finally getting to the point

[00:18:32] where the baby boomers are like, fuck this, which by the way,

[00:18:34] haha, yeah, maybe we'll get some shit done.

[00:18:38] I know just saying, like, you know, and then a bunch of

[00:18:42] I'm pretty sure the average age from my flogging meeting yesterday

[00:18:46] was about 74.

[00:18:48] But anyway, I digress and

[00:18:51] I don't mean to be agist by any stretch of the imagination,

[00:18:55] but there is a moment in time when

[00:18:58] retirement has to happen and it is happening right now.

[00:19:02] So that's a thing.

[00:19:03] But I'm seeing a lot of people who are just, you know,

[00:19:05] investing in their side hustles.

[00:19:07] So I think you're on to something.

[00:19:08] I think that we will probably see.

[00:19:11] I think we're going to still see people quitting jobs and record levels.

[00:19:14] I feel I still think we're going to have a lot of open jobs,

[00:19:17] more open jobs than humans open to work.

[00:19:20] And I think you are 100 percent spot on

[00:19:24] that we're going to see a major dive in productivity

[00:19:26] because nobody gives a shit about your pencil manufacturing,

[00:19:29] right? Or whatever you think you're making.

[00:19:31] And whatever you're making them do, they're going to be like, OK,

[00:19:34] I'm going to show up.

[00:19:35] Thanks for the money. But fuck right off.

[00:19:37] I'm going to show up.

[00:19:38] Thanks for the money.

[00:19:40] And I'm going to start working on my side hustle

[00:19:43] and I'm going to work on that until I can build up.

[00:19:45] Here's what's interesting.

[00:19:46] As you said, that I immediately thought this is all now start

[00:19:50] to become a self-fulfilling prophecy for these stupid ass managers

[00:19:53] who are afraid that if I gave people flexibility in the autonomy

[00:19:57] to use it, that they would not work on my stuff

[00:20:00] and I wouldn't get the value out of them, right?

[00:20:03] And so because I fought this for so long

[00:20:05] and created such an environment of distrust and like disrespect,

[00:20:10] they're looking at me and now they're saying, well, fuck you.

[00:20:12] That's exactly what I'll do.

[00:20:13] I'm not going to.

[00:20:14] I'm going to do what I want to do under my time and I'm going to do it anyway.

[00:20:18] Now you're not going to get all of me, right?

[00:20:20] Because now you've now you've now you've treated me with a level of

[00:20:24] disrespect that says I no longer respect you enough to give you what I promised.

[00:20:30] So there you go guys, you got exactly what you wanted.

[00:20:32] And so you can continue to sit up there

[00:20:34] and to mansplain your shit and to act like you know exactly what's going on

[00:20:38] and everybody else is stupid, but it's jokes on you.

[00:20:43] It is and it's never going to end.

[00:20:46] And but all of this is starting to talk about side hustles

[00:20:49] and in a little, you know, like I'm always walking around light and fires

[00:20:54] that you guys will be able to buy some stickers in my new Etsy store next year

[00:20:58] to give these managers gold stars.

[00:21:00] And I'll send out a link when it's ready.

[00:21:02] It's pretty brilliant because I think that the average

[00:21:06] I'm telling you, the average recruitment marketing employer brand consultant

[00:21:09] is fed up. We keep telling these great brand stories

[00:21:14] and we keep attracting these great people to your companies

[00:21:17] that your managers continue to chase off.

[00:21:22] And there's no amount of brand and marketing

[00:21:24] that is going to cover up the fact that you have people in your organization

[00:21:29] that are making decisions to chase humans off.

[00:21:32] Exactly. And so at what point does it start to feel

[00:21:35] morally repugnant to try and build a brand story for something

[00:21:40] that you know is not going to end up being true for people?

[00:21:43] I mean, you have a moment where you're like, I can't I can't do this anymore.

[00:21:46] I can't take somebody who's really good and valuable

[00:21:50] and sell them this bill of goods when, although I think that's the intent,

[00:21:54] I know that the managers are going to go work for or the business group

[00:21:57] that they're going to be in or etc. It's going to end up

[00:22:00] not valuing who they are and treat them like shit

[00:22:03] and they're going to be miserable at the end of the day,

[00:22:05] which I would like to be very, very abundantly clear.

[00:22:09] I do not believe all managers are terrible.

[00:22:12] I believe that there are managers out there

[00:22:14] that are remarkable people that do enter every day with good intent

[00:22:20] and goodwill and really try to grow their talent.

[00:22:23] I've met them. They're amazing.

[00:22:25] They're amazing.

[00:22:26] And it feels like if we could have a cloning machine

[00:22:30] to clone those personalities, we would get our way out of this.

[00:22:33] So it begs the question of why are we not training this behavior

[00:22:36] into our managers to help them let go of their ego,

[00:22:41] to help them let go of there and build those trust skills

[00:22:44] so that they do have a better approach to their talent.

[00:22:47] But instead, we let the bad ones,

[00:22:49] the 20 percent of managers that are just awful,

[00:22:53] run roughshod over the whole company.

[00:22:55] I don't know. I think it's a really good question

[00:22:57] because, you know, having been involved for years

[00:22:59] in various different initiatives to train managers

[00:23:02] or to prepare managers to be good managers, right?

[00:23:06] L and D has been doing this for years

[00:23:08] coming up with another manager ramping program.

[00:23:11] And it inherently doesn't.

[00:23:14] I mean, yes, it could help some, but for the most part,

[00:23:17] it doesn't achieve this grand result that we're all looking for.

[00:23:19] It never has. Why not?

[00:23:22] What's the next step?

[00:23:23] Yeah, I agree.

[00:23:24] Why? Because would I be too pessimistic if I said

[00:23:28] that 20 percent is just the price we pay to be human beings.

[00:23:33] There's always going to be 20 percent of people who just suck at life

[00:23:37] and we just need to get better at firing them quicker.

[00:23:39] Maybe I think that might be a solution.

[00:23:42] But I also you're right,

[00:23:43] that might be the cost of doing business

[00:23:44] that we're going to have 20 percent of the team of managers,

[00:23:48] the group of managers that are just not equipped

[00:23:50] or they're not great people managers, right?

[00:23:53] So that's that's one possibility and one question.

[00:23:56] But my question is, why do we let them dictate the terms of service?

[00:24:01] Why do we let 20 percent of that?

[00:24:02] That's that's exactly that's what I'm trying to say.

[00:24:05] We take that 20 percent and we reward that behavior

[00:24:09] because they end up in higher and higher positions.

[00:24:11] I'm going to, you know, I'm going to call it out straight.

[00:24:13] I sat down today from a previous company

[00:24:16] that I worked for, which shall not be named

[00:24:18] and saw the VP list that came out and just about barfed all over.

[00:24:23] It was like just stupid as people.

[00:24:25] But this is exactly what we do.

[00:24:27] We look at because those people who are behaving badly and etc.

[00:24:33] are also they're too faced on the other side of their face

[00:24:36] that behaving, they are they know how to sell in a different way.

[00:24:40] They're manipulative in ways is not valuable at the end of the day.

[00:24:46] And to a certain degree,

[00:24:49] they are seen as by those who are in the leadership position

[00:24:52] as preventing things from getting out of hand

[00:24:55] because they keep, they tamper down, they tamper down the ruckus.

[00:24:59] Right? You may not get much innovation out of them,

[00:25:02] but you also don't get a huge amount of ruckus coming out of them

[00:25:05] because basically they scare that they keep everything.

[00:25:08] They they they hold it all down.

[00:25:10] They put a lid on it.

[00:25:11] They put a lid on it.

[00:25:12] Thank you. Well, again, yeah, I the past week has shown me anything.

[00:25:17] It's that that that approach is why we will continue to have problems

[00:25:22] and recruiting and talent acquisition and why we'll have very hard times

[00:25:26] getting anything around things like mobility and things that are things

[00:25:30] like diversity and inclusion, that we're going to have a really hard time

[00:25:33] getting anything of merit that will make working

[00:25:37] going to work better for actual human people.

[00:25:40] This is the reason why it's not working.

[00:25:43] This is why it continues to not work.

[00:25:45] And we don't seem really interested in doing anything about it.

[00:25:48] Like I was thinking back to my time on firing squad.

[00:25:52] And I think Chad asked me what what I thought the biggest threat was.

[00:25:55] And I was like, oh, competition.

[00:25:56] He's like, no, you're the biggest threat is that, you know,

[00:25:59] nobody does anything in this industry.

[00:26:01] And I was like, Jesus Christ, you're right. Right.

[00:26:04] Well, miss that one.

[00:26:07] OK, good call.

[00:26:08] And I but I didn't I didn't realize that it goes deeper than that.

[00:26:13] So I think that the people in our industry really do want to get things

[00:26:17] like mobility that they want a better experience for people like people go into

[00:26:22] HR because they are in T.A.

[00:26:24] Because they want to like they love the feeling of hiring somebody.

[00:26:27] Like they love the feeling of giving somebody that job and the experience

[00:26:31] of like offering them a job and getting them excited about that.

[00:26:35] Like that's what I love about what I do, right?

[00:26:38] I love that.

[00:26:40] But we don't seem to be able to do the things.

[00:26:43] Because of the ruckus from that 20 percent, right?

[00:26:48] That 20 percent is scaring our T.A.

[00:26:53] And T.M. and HR leaders from doing anything different because if you

[00:26:58] stand that up, there's trying to get a new job.

[00:27:01] Or if you stand that up, you're going to maybe not hire the best people.

[00:27:05] Or if you do that, like they've absolutely fear mongered.

[00:27:09] Are it's not our industry.

[00:27:11] It's that 20 percent.

[00:27:13] It's Lord of the Flies.

[00:27:14] It's Lord of the Flies.

[00:27:16] Color be frustrated this week, y'all.

[00:27:18] Color be frustrated.

[00:27:19] I know.

[00:27:20] And I would love it if my heart breaks for all of our T.A.

[00:27:23] leaders dealing with that 20 percent.

[00:27:25] Oh, my God. Right.

[00:27:27] So tired of it.

[00:27:28] So tired of it.

[00:27:29] And I don't know how we address it, right?

[00:27:31] I mean, I come up with all sorts of billion ideas in the back of my head.

[00:27:34] Like things like, oh, let's let's go off and let's let's address it

[00:27:38] from around a different angle.

[00:27:39] Let's look at a different audience.

[00:27:40] Let's let's approach it with a different value proposition.

[00:27:44] Let's do it.

[00:27:45] But at the end of the day, that 20 percent is it's like quicksand.

[00:27:50] They just suck out all the joy.

[00:27:52] Hold us down.

[00:27:53] And the other thing I will say is that my way around this lately

[00:27:57] has been a very brusque and transparent response that opens with

[00:28:03] I say this with peace and love, but you're going to lose them anyway.

[00:28:09] I'm so sorry to tell you that you don't own talent.

[00:28:14] That's right.

[00:28:15] Oh, and the people on your team, that is a relationship of ownership

[00:28:19] that does not exist in work.

[00:28:21] This is that was used when we had the slave trade, like you don't own people.

[00:28:25] Nobody owns that relationship.

[00:28:27] Stop thinking that way.

[00:28:28] These are these are people that have goals of their own.

[00:28:32] And if you are preventing them from achieving those goals,

[00:28:35] they are going to walk away from you.

[00:28:36] And that is a choice that you are making with that's right.

[00:28:39] Love, the peace and love.

[00:28:40] I have this this idea of peace and love, peace and love.

[00:28:43] There is a reason why the peasants overtook the nobles.

[00:28:48] Right.

[00:28:49] There's a reason why all those castles in Europe are crumbling to the ground.

[00:28:52] Yeah. Get over it, guys.

[00:28:55] I mean, you're not done.

[00:28:56] You're not in charge.

[00:28:57] Yeah.

[00:28:58] Oh, I think you're in charge, but you're not in charge.

[00:29:01] You're not.

[00:29:01] They are fucking in charge because they're the ones who thought

[00:29:04] yes, we're doing anything.

[00:29:04] So God damn it.

[00:29:06] No, you know what? Here's the deal.

[00:29:08] No, no, but here's the deal.

[00:29:10] I think this is the right time to have this conversation

[00:29:12] because they are only in charge for as long as we let them be.

[00:29:17] I mean, I got to say this.

[00:29:18] It is up to all of us to call bullshit every time we see it.

[00:29:22] We have to make it change, take basic change management.

[00:29:25] Change only occurs when change is less painful

[00:29:29] than what would happen if you didn't change.

[00:29:31] So those leaders above who have to get rid of that 20 percent

[00:29:34] until it's more painful for them to have to deal with the rest

[00:29:37] of his rabble rousing around them and causing all sorts of chaos

[00:29:41] and taking up their time with, you know,

[00:29:43] meetings to discuss the problem and let's discuss the challenge over it.

[00:29:47] Right. Until that happens, we don't get rid of that 20 percent.

[00:29:50] I'm a lot.

[00:29:51] But that's unfortunate because that also means all of us have to become

[00:29:54] big, huge risk takers and say, screw you, world and shake it up,

[00:29:58] which, you know, shakes how we do.

[00:30:01] That's how we do that.

[00:30:02] We do the toilet part of the rebel alliance.

[00:30:04] Don't shake the baby.

[00:30:05] Don't shake the baby.

[00:30:07] No, never shake the baby.

[00:30:12] You can shake the tree, but you can't shake the baby.

[00:30:14] No, baby.

[00:30:16] Don't.

[00:30:18] I'm unhinged, everybody.

[00:30:20] Listen, oh my God, for bearing with me.

[00:30:22] I am this is Unhinged Friday with Tracy.

[00:30:25] Thank you so much. I love it.

[00:30:26] That's fabulous.

[00:30:27] Well, Miss Tracy, people want to get ahold of you

[00:30:31] and want to give you condolences or give you good ideas

[00:30:34] on how to hide the bodies.

[00:30:35] They should reach you at T Parsons, correct?

[00:30:38] All day at T Parsons.

[00:30:39] Find me on LinkedIn.

[00:30:40] Yes. Excellent.

[00:30:43] And anybody have any good ideas on how to eventually change

[00:30:48] the world of work I want to hear from you.

[00:30:50] Reach out to Adlin Bailey.

[00:30:52] I would like to listen and hear what you have to say.

[00:30:55] Can reach me on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, all the stuff.

[00:30:57] And they can go to our website.

[00:31:00] Yes, at at Tal Rebel Alliance dot com.

[00:31:03] Right. Absolutely.

[00:31:05] They can not only go to our website, but let's just say

[00:31:06] it's Friday and you're listening to the pod or it's Wednesday

[00:31:09] or your day sucks.

[00:31:11] Go Tal Rebel Alliance dot com.

[00:31:13] Hit the playlist.

[00:31:15] We have a Spotify playlist on their ad to it.

[00:31:17] Give us your best rabble rousing song.

[00:31:19] Let's get ourselves all motivated to go.

[00:31:21] Absolutely. Awesome.

[00:31:23] We will talk more.

[00:31:24] Everybody, thank you so much for joining us.

[00:31:27] Have a great day. Bye.

[00:31:29] Thank you for listening in.

[00:31:31] We hope you enjoyed yourself.

[00:31:33] The talent rebel cast is part of the talent rebel alliance.

[00:31:37] It's a movement connecting strong, independent, bossy and

[00:31:40] well sometimes feisty women in the talent industry.

[00:31:44] Together we're on a mission to grow our ideas, our presence,

[00:31:47] our value and our impact.

[00:31:49] Smart women connecting with smart women to support each other.

[00:31:52] It's as simple as that.

[00:31:54] We believe big things happen from simple ideas.

[00:31:57] If you want to join the talent rebel alliance, come on over

[00:32:01] and check out our website at talent rebel alliance dot com.

[00:32:04] We hope to hear from you soon.

[00:32:20] Do you love news about LinkedIn, indeed Google

[00:32:23] and just about every other recruitment tech company out there?

[00:32:26] Hell yeah. I'm Chad.

[00:32:28] I'm cheese.

[00:32:29] We're the Chad and cheese podcast.

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[00:32:41] We out.