Ep 242- Darr

[00:00:00] Hi, this is Asim. This is Sujoy. This is Amrita. And you're listening to Khandaan- A Bollywood Podcast about the three main Khans of the Hindi film industry, Amir, Salman and Shahrukh. Hi, you're listening to Khandaan- A Bollywood Podcast regular feed. Thank you so much for your

[00:00:31] support over the years. We now have a Patreon channel with bonus content and exclusive merch for those of you who would like to support us. Every dollar goes towards creating more and better content. Visit us at patreon.com slash khandaan podcast.

[00:00:49] Hi and welcome to a new episode of Khandaan Podcast. My name is Asim Berni and I'm joined with my lovely co-hosts Amrita and Sujoy. Hey, Amrita. Hey, Sujoy. Hey everyone. Hi.

[00:01:09] I think Sujoy had like a full sentence planned out and then he got to the beginning and he was like, no, that's too much effort. And I picked up on that. Sujoy is hungover.

[00:01:20] Let's just agree to say that first. No, Amrita just reads into whatever I'm thinking. I'm not even thinking that far. Amrita has thought for me on my behalf. And we have with us one of the most well-read and I have to say probably the one of the

[00:01:37] most requested guests we have had on Rahul Desai finally on the Khandaan Podcast. Thank you for joining us while you're on a little break hiatus. Let's say it that way. Yeah, you didn't tell me about the requested part. That's actually nice to hear.

[00:01:55] It's true. Like we've had like so many people ask like why Rahul is not on the podcast. Rahul is not on the podcast and genuinely the only reason it's taken us this long to

[00:02:04] have you here is mainly because most of the people that come on the podcast are people that we know already and like, you know, they're like people that we know in real life. So like it's that's literally the reason why like, you know, like because cold

[00:02:18] calling is like a bit of a it's a you know, it's like whether people would want to come or not is always like a, you know, it's up in the air. So that's why it's taken this long.

[00:02:28] But yeah, we've had Patreons ask, we've had friends ask, we've had like random people tag us on Twitter and be like, why don't you invite Rahul on the show? Well, Rahul is here. Relax. I mean, I, to be honest, I have a confession to make. I've been following

[00:02:45] the podcast, obviously for a while, like most of us here. But I was wondering when you'd ask me because I just thought that you like everyone I know is there. Why am I not there? Why they're

[00:02:55] not asking me? But then I was very close to asking you guys saying, is it okay if I ask instead? But but yeah, I didn't know that you knew the people already. I just assumed you just

[00:03:06] like reach out to anyone you know, like the weird thing is that anytime there is somebody who's actually good at the job and like, is like talented, they'll never like, they'll be like,

[00:03:18] oh no, like should I ask? And then the weirdest people will like reach out to you and be like, hey, you have a podcast, right? I'd like to be on it. I'm a thought leader. And I'm just like,

[00:03:28] why? Why is it this way? But also have to say like what Amrita is saying is right. I think having Rahul Desai on, you know, it intimidates me. So I'm like, shit, yeah, is about mehndat karne parayegi. I'll have to read up about, you know,

[00:03:42] mise en scène and all of this other crap like different lenses, you know, Akshay Kumar knows about different lenses, you know, and then I don't and then I'm worried, you know. I mean, you already had there on your podcast, so I can't intimidate you. It's

[00:03:57] just not possible. I mean, if you think that, yeah, it's I think I'm second to that. So but I'm glad to be here. We are very, very happy to have you on the podcast of Rahul. And we kept a

[00:04:09] biggie for Rahul. That's the other thing. We're talking also about a movie that's been requested so many times that we haven't covered yet. And I think we were waiting for the proper guest. We are discussing Dhar. It's finally happening. So I want to ask you guys

[00:04:26] first because obviously, Rahul, this was your pick. I knew you were not going to pick a Salman Khan movie. I knew that was going to happen. It's not going to be Bandesh or something

[00:04:36] like that. You know, like Rahul is going to be picking. But before you picked and I want to ask everybody this question, like what are the scenes of Dhar because we've all seen Dhar.

[00:04:47] It's part of our life. We grew up with it. It's like a huge massive movie. What were the key moments or scenes of the movie that have still like burnt into your brain? Like I'll give

[00:04:57] an example. It's such a small thing, but it's when Shah Rukh calls Kiran from the house upstairs and then Sunny Deol runs to go upstairs and his foot slides on the floor. And it was just like

[00:05:13] one of those visuals that is just stuck in my brain that I mean, everybody knows how to run. You have to wear like the proper shoes and like Sunny Deol actively slipping or whatever he's doing. Right. Or it's an unfortunate accident, but it's one of those things that

[00:05:27] elevates this movie for me and it's always stuck in my brain when it's such a small moment. Rahul, do you have any moments in the movie that is still like a Dhar that's immediately you think of that shot or that scene?

[00:05:41] Yeah, honestly, like I mean, as you very rightly mentioned, I think most of us have grown up with it. It's been in my subconscious forever. I don't think I go through a week without

[00:05:51] humming a song or thinking of a random scene from that film. I think it's that like, I'm very glad when I was watching, when I was seeing the list when Amrita said that

[00:06:01] you can pick a movie, I was going through the list and my heart was in my mouth. I was like, please let Dhar not be spoken about yet because for me, it was between Dhar and Mohapati. And I was like, you know, Mohapati, I've like sort of really,

[00:06:16] that's another film I've watched like 100 times, but I'm very glad this is the film. And I love how specific you were about that moment also, because there are a couple of for me also,

[00:06:25] like and I just mentioned it to Amrita when we were talking online that I just watched it just by chance a couple of weeks ago on the weekend, because that's what I do on my weekends.

[00:06:35] I watch films I actually like. And yeah, while I was watching it, I just noticed some things which I haven't probably noticed in the last 30 years of watching the film, which is which is pretty amazing because I've been watching it like for a long time as I'm

[00:06:51] guessing all of you have. And I noticed in that in the scene when Shah Rukh asked Juhi Chawla to meet him and she's like, okay, we'll meet and they meet at the hotel,

[00:07:02] like which is holiday and basically by the pool. I didn't realize it till much later that, Anu Kapoor was sitting right behind them. They mentioned that later on too. And I was like, why?

[00:07:17] Yeah. And this time I was actually, I actually saw it before they mentioned it later on and I was amazed. I was like, how could I not catch this in all these years? But a scene

[00:07:27] that's memorable for me and like a very small moment that's memorable for me is when they go to Switzerland for their honeymoon. And I think that whole montage is going on of them like

[00:07:39] enjoying, you know, Zurich and whatnot. And suddenly when they are sort of going by on a carriage, the camera suddenly stops behind a tree and we see Shah Rukh in this trench coat and hat almost like he's a detective and like and the music completely changes the entire

[00:07:57] vibe changes. And that's a moment that's like really stuck in my memory because my dad was like, when I watched it for the first time in 93, we watched it. It was one of the first

[00:08:08] films I've ever watched in a cinema hall. And when we watched it, then my dad started sort of whistling during that moment. And I got a little confused. I like, isn't this

[00:08:16] guy supposed to be the villain of the film? And he was like, that is how you should look. Look at those glasses. Look at the trench coat. And I was like, I was like, yeah, I don't think I've seen anything cooler than this.

[00:08:29] And I keep watching that if I have to watch a moment on loop whenever I feel like I just keep you know forwarding to that moment and keep watching it. So Joy, any things, any shots, any things that you kind of connect directly with dad?

[00:08:44] I mean, when this movie came out, the whole promotion was around the whole stammering Kiran and the menacing laughter track of Shah Rukh Khan and the scene in the mirror where he carves Kiran's name on his chest. I remember that very vividly. I also remember like 1993,

[00:09:03] there was like the sort of the early onset of cable TV and we used to get like dur on all the top 10 charts and like how that was supposed to be the big hit of the of the the 90s, right? And how it is projected as such a

[00:09:31] big romantic number. But in the essence of the movie, it's the creepy track, right? You either say yes or no. And I remember Shah Rukh's purple shirt in To Mere Samne, that being like everywhere and him like just sliding on the snow and then you know crashing.

[00:09:51] And the one scene that I specifically remember is the chase scene between a sunny devil and not the holy one but after that one when they run through Chopati and then

[00:10:04] then it like the whole chase scene how it's shot and then the one scene where Shah Rukh just literally dives head first into the pole. That was nuts man. Like he would give it everything

[00:10:16] and yeah of course the whole thing about Shah Rukh running and also bloody Shah Rukh that all of that is here. Yeah I want to talk about that running scene later on. Amrita any key scenes, shots, songs that you connect with that? So whenever I think about Dhar,

[00:10:33] the first scene that pops into my head is that picture of like Juhi Chawla that he has projected on his wall and then the way that he is so tactile with that wall whenever he's like in

[00:10:46] front of it. And for me it was also just sort of reinforced because years later I heard Shah Rukh give an interview about that particular scene. He talks about like how so the first time

[00:11:01] you see that you know you see the projection on the screen is when he's talking to his dead mom right and then her photo is like behind him and he said during that scene he told

[00:11:13] Yash Chopra that maybe he can have an introduction scene where he is hanging upside down and then the camera just like you know it's like it looks like he's stuck he's sitting up

[00:11:26] and then the camera moves and then you see that he's hanging upside down and Yash Chopra just stared at him and said are you a bat? Shah Rukh was like that's the last time I try to

[00:11:38] give any kind of advice to Yash Chopra and I immediately knew my place. And that is like this you know like I'm sure we'll talk about this later but this is just so nice to see a movie made by

[00:11:54] a competent director who knows what he's doing. Like it is just one of life's little pleasures where you see a movie that is well made, that is cohesive, even the music makes sense, everything comes together. I'm like this is great I love it. Thanks Rahul, thanks for choosing

[00:12:13] this one. So how many times have you seen this movie Rahul? Like because I'll be honest watching it I realized I hadn't seen it in a long time to be like I had this idea when

[00:12:29] the romantics came out on Netflix to do like a Yash Raj re-watch and watch all of these movies that I hadn't watched and I never got around to it because that's the thing with

[00:12:37] Netflix show the hype is so big and then when it dies down you just move on with life but I was like oh I hadn't seen that one and I was like oh maybe I should watch it with my daughter

[00:12:47] or with my wife who hasn't seen it. They have not seen evil Shah Rukh, they've never seen an evil Shah Rukh movie, they've only seen Mahobate, K.3G and I was like wow that's so crazy right

[00:12:58] but yeah it's crazy that this is the Shah Rukh that we got introduced with right like the the gangly weird hair floppy head smokes cigarette stained teeth Shah Rukh and now you have six pack

[00:13:13] long hair you know. Also like this era of Shah Rukh he used to do a lot of acting with his Adam's apple like every single scene ends with the Adam's apple moving up and down

[00:13:23] and that used to sort of punctuate his sentences. It was the big thing for me how much he has changed and how much also we have changed with him right like so for me I had not

[00:13:36] seen this movie in ages and I had not seen it in such a good print I think for a while because I think Netflix has an upgraded print but you revisit this every other week is that what you're

[00:13:47] saying? I mean I would not say every other week it was just a coincidence that it happened at the right time this time but I'd say at least twice a year because like what like I've

[00:13:58] been watching it for 30 years now I first watched it when I was eight so yeah do the math then like it's probably over 50 times I guess and there are some there I mean there are sometimes I

[00:14:09] obviously just go to specific moments like we just mentioned. I just feel like it sometimes you know like if I'm maybe a couple of beers down and at night I come back after like some

[00:14:21] after meeting someone and I'm like you know what I get nostalgic it's good time to maybe look at another Shah Rukh film and I end up watching either Dar or Rabne Banadi Jodi or one

[00:14:30] of my favorites all the time so and it's interesting you mentioned that so much so many of the New Age fans haven't seen Shah Rukh the way he started and it's amazing because Bajikar and Dar released a month within a month of each other and I can't imagine

[00:14:47] a more shocking introduction to a lot of us at least back then because I hadn't seen a lot of I hadn't seen his first few films before that and this was my introduction to Shah Rukh

[00:14:56] as I'm guessing it was for a lot of people and yeah I can't imagine liking the Shah Rukh today without knowing the Shah Rukh that was there in the 90s without the pre DDLJ Shah Rukh

[00:15:09] I can't imagine it if I had to just start watching his career say after DDLJ also not forget like after like 2010 in fact it'll be very difficult to like him if you start

[00:15:20] watching him after 2010 it's just I'm very fortunate that I think we were like I was born around then and we have like I was a 90s kid so and after a while you start to doubt it

[00:15:32] because you're like how much of it is nostalgia how much of it was actually good like it was very interesting to Amrita say right now that it's a well-made film and it's such a nice

[00:15:40] change to see it but honestly it's aged well like there are so many things that should not work like Shah Rukh speaking to the to nobody in general to the mirror to himself he did it in

[00:15:51] Bazigar he did it in Dhar no other actor can pull that off it's just it's just the most stupid exposition device ever and if I saw it today in a movie I'll be like you're kidding me

[00:16:02] but for some reason when I watch it in Bazigar and Dhar and the way Shah Rukh does it it's also because his characters are crazy obviously so it works but the way he pulls it

[00:16:13] off is really different and I don't think I've seen sort of psychopaths played like that in Hindi cinema sense. I was actually thinking sorry I'm just gonna interrupt you Asim for a second I was actually thinking like this you know this particular film falls into that early

[00:16:31] starter pack of Shah Rukh films where the other person like that plays opposite him clearly believes that they are the hero of the movie like Dhar, Bazigar even Kabhi Ha Kabhi Na

[00:16:47] like he is clearly like he is not in any way shape or form the protagonist everybody in the film knows it everything around the film is very much structured that you know like Shah Rukh

[00:17:00] is not the protagonist but by the time you finish watching it we are all like Rahul's dad we are all just like look at him in the trench coat he's so cool that's the guy that I want to be

[00:17:14] um it's amazing that's just pure star quality right there. I have an idea for a t-shirt saying Hum Sab Dalip Tahil Hai. So niche. Your t-shirt ideas. Koi nahi kharidega. That's usually our conversation. Sujoy comes with this t-shirt idea. We're not even selling the Katrina

[00:17:40] cave ones. By the way visit Redbubble buy a t-shirt support our work. Hum Sab Dalip Tahil Hai. I just told you my daughter has not seen that. You're telling me where did you get this idea from?

[00:17:58] But I want to say I want to ask you this specifically Amit. I think one thing that Dur did because it was one of as far as I remember it's probably one of the first obsessed lover

[00:18:09] stalker movie and then it really launched the genre right like there were so many after this right before this I don't remember necessarily it being this way like if you were a stalker you were the villain you were Shakti Kapoor you were you know whoever.

[00:18:23] Exactly you were not Shah Rukh but I think this movie also warped our sense of love and romance did it to you Amrit. Did you want a Shah Rukh in Dur? Not I'm talking about Shah Rukh from DDLJ

[00:18:40] because I remember guys were doing the whole wo meri hai wo meri nahi hai wo meri hai wo the whole cutting body parts okay nobody was doing it maybe on their chest 100% people were

[00:18:51] doing a lot on their arms I have seen it I know this was happening so was there ever a moment where like hmm that's the kind of obsession I want? Honestly no. I'm usually the kind of person

[00:19:09] that just wants her boyfriend to have their own life and just like leave me alone a little bit and then we'll come back when we're happy to hang out with each other so no the obsession clinginess wouldn't work for me. This is the Farooq Sheikh discussion

[00:19:24] we had last time basically. Yes Rahul you weren't here but like Asim was sounding off about like how he doesn't understand why Farooq Sheikh is such a big like you know like everyone talks about Farooq Sheikh all the time and I was like yeah that's the difference between

[00:19:40] men and women like women will absolutely understand with the appeal of a Farooq Sheikh anyway so no I did not want a boyfriend like Shah Rukh in Dur but I think we all took a while

[00:20:03] to really process what it was that we were seeing on screen a because like stalking as such is not really like even today like and not just in India but anywhere in the world

[00:20:18] people don't really take it seriously you know it's just like oh like you know he has a crush on you honey like you know like the police won't take it seriously in this film

[00:20:29] you'll see like Anupam Kher and what's her face the sister-in-law Tanvi Azmi you'll see Tanvi Azmi and Anupam Kher like taking it very lightly. Even Sunny there were like for a long time in

[00:20:46] the movie I'm watching it was like he still does not believe her he still says you know even at the end of it right when they're escaping he's just saying take your clothes

[00:20:56] and go to the boat he does not explain what is going on what the danger is and they're constantly like molly coddling her and I was like I don't know if that would work now but sorry I was

[00:21:07] there throw him in the boat too. No but I think that's literally how things are even now like you know like people don't take it seriously and then and that's why also I

[00:21:21] really appreciated you know the voice of God I haven't heard that in a film in a long time like in the beginning where there is like I haven't heard that in a while like I had

[00:21:35] really enjoyed it I'd forgotten that this movie had it but you really have to spoon feed people that context because they don't take it seriously at all. There's an echo or something

[00:21:50] in this recording I don't know like where it's coming from. Rahul there's background or like radio or tv or something on? No. Okay. Sujoy were you standing on buildings with flowers in your hands?

[00:22:02] No I was 10 when dark came out so for teachers. No I was busy with Super Mario Brothers. Wholesome bacha. Very studious and very nerdy. I think this movie then only hit me at the right age. Things were going on hormones were in full.

[00:22:31] Yeah okay so Rahul man I want to talk to you about Shah Rukh as an star here right like like I don't know like I don't think like because we're discussing this recently with our video

[00:22:44] essays we did one on our YouTube channel on Amitabh Bachchan. Amrita is working on one on Madhuri that's going to be coming out soon but when we talk about Shah Rukh as a star

[00:22:59] like you were eight maybe it was you were a bit young but have you been able to contextualize that era of Bazigarh and Durr and how that kind of propulsed Shah Rukh and why also because

[00:23:13] he has contemporaries like Amir Shah Rukh, Ajay Akshay they're all kind of contemporary but something about Shah Rukh makes it different and I think it goes back to Durr and Bazigarh.

[00:23:25] What do you think? Yeah it took me a while as well to sort of figure out who this person who this actor is and I don't think it's till after DDLJ and a couple of other films that he did

[00:23:40] that I think I started to look at him as a proper star you know when I was watching him in Durr and Bazigarh then Kabhiya Kabhi Na Next Year itself for me he was just like an actor

[00:23:51] I'm really fascinated by I had no idea if these roles were playing the reason I think I was fascinated like a lot of others was because he was not playing exactly those aspirational

[00:24:04] heroes which we had grown to sort of see with like Amir and Salman and a couple of others were breaking out then so even with that I was confused I was like you know he's clearly like

[00:24:15] not someone we should aspire to be but at the same time I can't take my eyes off him and I think like the stardom did not really hit home till I think the mid 90s and I'm glad there

[00:24:30] was that error before and it's in you know after a while you can't really explain it because a lot of the stars said no to these roles in Durr and Bazigarh because they didn't want to

[00:24:39] start you know say playing a villain and that again comes down to the fact we had never seen villains like this before so everyone just assumed it would be that and I mean first

[00:24:49] Anidheel didn't know what he was signing when he signed that as well and that you know sort of spotlight has been stolen by the villain so to say so yeah it's I don't think I've seen

[00:25:00] that kind of first of all that switch because in my head I always look at Kabia Kabina as a reformed as you know Rahul and Vicky getting slightly more reformed like a year down the

[00:25:12] line and becoming Sunil and then after Sunil I looked at it as progression where he became Raj so you know it always felt like eventually when you look back at it in hindsight it felt

[00:25:25] like there was some kind of progression but I also feel sad that you know we never really saw that Shah Rukh again and we will never see it because by then once you become a star

[00:25:36] all these things start to obviously you know he became more conscious of it like most other maybe celebrities might have and then it became he became more of a product and we saw that after

[00:25:49] that because he hesitated to play roles that would be considered risky for a very long time and I think the fact that he was I know this is spoken about a lot I think the fact that he

[00:26:00] was an outsider and wanted to make his mark and had the talent to do it and he's the rare guy who knew that he had that talent I think he just swung for the fences with these couple

[00:26:10] of years and for some reason it just ingrained in pop culture now. I want to talk about the the casting of this story the movie too a little bit because Amrita you were also hinting about it

[00:26:22] so they initially went I think even to Ajay Devgan to take on this role then they went to Amir and Amir was involved for a pretty long time until he asked Yas Chopra to do a joint

[00:26:35] narration with Sunny Deol together and the idea that Amir had is like you know we're both actors if we sit together and we discuss the role together nobody will feel cheated Yas Chopra said that's

[00:26:48] not happening he got Shah Rukh involved and then Sunny Deol got pissed off later on because he got hustled on this role so Amir in a way had actually good intentions and the right

[00:26:59] thought process and with Sunny Deol I was watching some interviews recent interviews he is still pissed off he is 100% still pissed off about this happening he has not forgiven it and I don't still think he understands it I don't think he understands why Shah Rukh

[00:27:19] ran away with the role like he's like you know like I'm a super soldier how can this little boy stab me and I tore my jeans like there's all of these stories going on online he was so

[00:27:32] pissed off he put his arms in his uh his uh his uh in his jean and then when he was so annoyed he tore his jeans basically pocket of his jeans that's apparently the story that's all that

[00:27:45] is my that is my favorite story about the making of DIRD by the way that uh and it was about the the climax scene where Shah Rukh knives him and apparently in the original

[00:27:59] take Shah Rukh knifed him in the back and Shah Rukh was like that's something a villain would do and I'm not a villain I'm uh like you know like I'm just the antagonist um and so

[00:28:12] Sunny kept saying like of course you have to do it in the back I'm a super soldier you can't like knife me like if I'm like facing you and Shah Rukh was just like not gonna do it bro

[00:28:23] and then Sunny just lost it and don't it's pants off and then everybody was like okay bye I can't do this today let's come back and I I just I just picture it in my head I think

[00:28:37] there was Tino Anand who was like doing the the action so I just imagine yeah I think so um and I was like uh I just like imagine like the entire like Yash Chopra like all these people

[00:28:51] just standing around like suddenly Sunny Deol goes and tests his pants off like are you serious like oh my god amazing I was like I was watching the interview on Aapki Adalat I think that's what's the show it's called right

[00:29:13] and he was asking about this and basically Sunny Deol was saying you know uh Yash Chopra I see him as my dad so obviously I can't say anything to him and I just got internally angry which I

[00:29:25] was like this is revealing more about your relationship with Dharmendra than anything else you know like this whole sequence this is kind of funny watching Durr this time though like the introduction of Sunny Deol with the commando scene right rescue mission of that little girl

[00:29:40] and that later when he comes to rescue Juhi on the boat he also is wearing that same black bandana it kind of is like uh we are introduced to a hero it's kind of mirrors

[00:29:51] what Gil is when Gil got released and he is also like a rescue commander and he has a girlfriend and he's gonna save it and the contrast between Gil and this is like uh yeah

[00:30:04] it was something interesting to see here I just have like so much respect for that particular soldier that Sunny's portraying because it I mean if you're fighting terrorists on a banana boat you deserve like all the kudos on the planet I was just thinking when this

[00:30:27] this time I was rewatching it he was like because they were on the boat for a long time they were like in the morning they came because he woke her up go to the boat in the morning and they're

[00:30:35] still there till the evening and it started raining and it got dark and all of that yeah yeah and I was like he they like he swam to the boat right so it cannot be that far so

[00:30:46] in my mind I was like he was just looking eight hours for the bandana because the bandage was very hastily done around his belly you know so that was didn't take that long but

[00:31:07] bandana dhundne mein eight gante lag gaya hai Kiran pichari let's let's get into the movie itself a little bit because it starts so sweetly this movie did you guys remember how it's almost Chandni-esque

[00:31:22] yeah the way this movie starts right uh the little piano she's like running in the rain and then this thing happens so it's very interesting because Yash Chopra is playing with our

[00:31:35] kind of notions of what a Yash Chopra movie is and then he subverts it right uh Raoul did that kind of stick out that scene for you this time again or yeah yeah I mean the more I've been

[00:31:47] watching it like in the last couple of years you're starting to notice all this because back then I'm like this is a this is a start I haven't seen before it's nice and it's not just

[00:31:57] the god's voice and all and it's interesting because of Chandni and all because I think one of the coolest things I just read recently is that Sridevi was approached for the role which is also on Wikipedia and she suggested that Kiran be the stalker and I'm like

[00:32:12] I would have wanted to watch that film as well like that uh sounded really cool of course Urmila really mainstreamized it later but uh yeah she was way ahead of her time and I'm

[00:32:23] glad sort of Yash Chopra went with Juhi eventually but uh but yeah the start of the film is particularly interesting because again it happens on a train like there's a there's a scene on the

[00:32:33] train also and when I watch Kabhiya Kabhi Na like six months later probably uh it reminded me of Anna coming to you know coming back home and you know looking forward to meet her

[00:32:43] lover and there were so many similarities with a lot of those Shah Rukh the films in those two years I just felt like they were being shot like almost simultaneously and maybe

[00:32:54] Shah Rukh was just borrowing ideas from every film and be like you know let's use this also but yeah it's just like it's one of those things where even when Jadu Teri Nazar starts

[00:33:06] uh for me that's first of all that song was obviously it became an anthem until I realized the lyrics are a little creepy much later in life but it's also a song I oddly

[00:33:19] sang in fifth grade there was a singing competition and all of us were like let's give it a shot and that was my choice obviously not knowing I just like memorize the lyrics without really

[00:33:30] and I remember my dad tutoring me saying uh to Haka Ria Na Karr and I was like yeah yeah I'm going to sing it and which is and it was a terrible performance I didn't even make like

[00:33:39] those Emmys I was a terrible singer I just wanted to sing it because you know Shah Rukh so um so yeah that song is has very bittersweet uh it's very bittersweet memories for me you know

[00:33:52] Asim you were saying like you know did I want a boyfriend like Shah Rukh I just want someone to love me the way you know Rahul's dad loves Shah Rukh that's what I want

[00:34:06] Sujoy I wanted to ask you because I was reading about this also on Wikipedia that Madhuri and even Sridevi were he was thinking of casting them but he went with Juhi yeah what

[00:34:16] do you think the movie would have been like if it was either Sridevi or Madhuri I mean we do get hints of uh Kiran in those characters so in in that der obsession where uh track happens

[00:34:30] when I think Shah Rukh is imagining that Juhi dancing in sort of a dream scenario Juhi wears a dhagdak sort of costume in Madhuri's attire and then there is a Chandni sort of nod as well with Sridevi so I think obviously um out of the main trio

[00:34:51] Juhi has the least to do so she could be probably easily replaced by either Sridevi or Madhuri both of them would bring totally different dimensions to this role but I'm

[00:35:02] also like happy that she got to be Yashraj or the Yash Chopra heroine because I think um I had heard like when they really when Yashopra approached Juhi Chawla to do Dil Toh Pagale

[00:35:15] she said no because she was like I used to be the Yash Chopra heroine how can I be a supporting character character you know in a Yash Chopra movie after that so it's kind of

[00:35:26] weird to think of that. Amrita do you think because I revisiting this movie like to get a bit into the criticism of it too I think I had the most problem with Juhi's character to a certain degree

[00:35:42] and I don't want to victim blame obviously you know she's the victim of being stopped but it's in the way she's written I feel um it's very it's a very kind of paternalistic

[00:35:54] view of everything that's going on right like they're not talking to her and I don't know if Madhuri and I know your thoughts on Madhuri right like I don't know if Madhuri and Sridevi

[00:36:05] could have played it the way um uh Juhi does and I'm thinking about the song Chota Sa Ghar right where that song is also quite creepy right because she again echoes the Tu Haa Kar Ya Naa Kar

[00:36:21] Mai Haa Karu Ya Naa Karu in that Chota Sa Ghar as well right yeah and I was telling you yesterday like we were talking about the creepiness of the movie and I was like listen to all of the songs

[00:36:31] all of the songs are creepy you know the the Shaadi song she's like 16 17 or something like that you know typical kind of thing but coming back to uh Juhi Amrita uh do you think Sridevi and Madhuri could have even played that role where Juhi just has that playfulness

[00:36:50] right where Chota Sa Ghar has this sexual connotation but she's so joyful and so happy that she kind of makes it okay but she also is able to play a bit more subdued than maybe Madhuri and Shree could because they're more like firebrands what do you think

[00:37:07] yeah for me Juhi is a perfect casting choice for this film because it needs to be somebody who can convincingly play helpless and by the time this movie came out she had already done movies like Sherni for example you know um and Chal Baaz where she was

[00:37:26] like you know like beating people with a whip uh she was like fighting off decoids she was like doing all kinds of stuff and Madhuri always has been like um you know a firebrand I mean that's basically the essay that I'm working on where I'm just like Madhuri

[00:37:45] even when she's being sweet and uh like if you see something like uh say Mrityudand in the first part of that film she's like a very sweet sanskari boku type but when things

[00:37:59] come like push comes to shove she just turns into this firebrand all over again so she has that you know that key to her whereas Juhi has always been exactly what you just described

[00:38:12] you know she's just joyful and beautiful and sweet she's very soft spoken um and you believe her when she feels like she is in danger and she's helpless um I don't know if I would

[00:38:28] believe that Shri Devi and Madhuri are helpless um because like even like Anjan came out like maybe a year after this movie and uh even in that like Madhuri is helpless helpless helpless

[00:38:42] and then she's like I'm gonna kill you right that's the the Madhuri arc and Juhi never has that moment in this movie she never even has the moment moment where she figures it out and

[00:38:54] she wants to escape even that she doesn't do because they have established that she's a really good swimmer she's swimming laps left right and center the moment Shah Rukh drives off the boat

[00:39:06] why doesn't he jump in the water I was like you know but it's the conviction of Juhi's performance that she's really in shock that you know he's dead Salli is dead and what's

[00:39:15] happening and she still hasn't figured out that Shah Rukh is the one until he does the Kiren and I think it requires a certain performance from Juhi that only Juhi could do what do you think

[00:39:28] Rahul? Yeah the it's true because the difference between Juhi and Madhuri is exactly what Amrita said it is the difference between Daran and Anjan I like it exactly that because Madhuri has the same arc in that film till a certain point and she explodes after that

[00:39:44] I haven't seen Juhi the oddest part about it is that she went on to play the same role like a couple of years later in Darar where you know you have like Arbaaz Khan trying to do a

[00:39:54] Shah Rukh to not good results but I think my favorite out of the copycats was Dastak with Sharath Kapoor and Sushmita Sen and they ripped off a lot of music in that film of

[00:40:12] course when I was a kid I didn't know it I really enjoyed that soundtrack and I thought Sharath Kapoor could be the next Shah Rukh at some point. Sharath Kapoor also thought he could

[00:40:20] be the next Shah Rukh I think. I'm sure because that film also captured my imagination and when I saw both of them together in Juhis I was like what could have been but no it's true like

[00:40:34] with Madhuri always had a very different even the way she was cast in most of the films where she was sort of a survivor or a victim it was always very very different from the way

[00:40:45] Juhi Chawla even chose her roles over the years after that and that was it's or do you mention the swimming because that was a terrible joke that Sunny Deol played on her in the swimming pool

[00:40:55] like I would not be with that person after that. You know like I was watching the whole movie I was like Sunny Deol as a character in this movie I would not get along with this person

[00:41:06] like everything he says does like I was like we would not vibe we would not be able to chill like together this is not my kind of person but yeah what do you think Sujai?

[00:41:17] What do you we haven't talked enough about you know Sunny Deol. What do you think of Sunny Deol? Obviously he has this great reveal intro scene where he's like super commandoing on through the ship and things what do you think of Sunny Deol? I don't know like

[00:41:31] I've never rated him as a great screen presence to be honest other than the whole like I'm going to occupy every single inch of the screen just by the you know the weight of my scream

[00:41:42] or the the width of my chest and those two have been like proven right here as well. He's not screaming as much as he was in Damini or Ghail or Ghatak but because this

[00:41:54] is a Yash Chopra movie but you get to see a lot of his chest hair in this movie and I like there is a lot of like you know the romance is coming through between the two the two lovers but

[00:42:10] Sunny Deol is made to do all of the skin show in this rather than Juhi Chawla which is like I don't want to watch Sunny Deol strip tease on my movies. Yeah oh there is actually an actual strip tease also which I want to

[00:42:28] get into later on a little bit. Amrita what do you think of Sunny Deol? I like the dramatic posing. Has there ever been an evolution in Sunny Deol? I feel it's always

[00:42:48] the same Sunny Deol. Yes there has like I so one of my I genuinely do not remember where I picked this piece of information off but I've mentioned it to like multiple people and

[00:43:02] it blows everybody's mind because they're all just like are you sure and I swear to god it's true. Sunny Deol is a Radha trained actor like he actually went to Radha and he Radha or Radha? Did he go to Radha in studio of acting?

[00:43:23] He yeah it's just and I think like I think it is our friend Jai who like once was reading like some sort of like interview with Sunny where he was talking about like Dharmendra coming back from shooting abroad with all these classics you know like cassettes

[00:43:42] and they were watching like French and Italian cinema at home and the idea of the Deol's like sitting at home and like watching Truffaut is just like amazing to me but if you watch Sunny's

[00:43:57] first like five years of his career and you watch like his movies right they're obviously the 80s movie so they're just action movies but they're action movies with a bit of thought behind them. They're not mindless violence like the kind that Dharmendra was doing for

[00:44:15] instance and they're actually like really interesting and they're interesting not just from like a male perspective but also from a female perspective like this is one movie that he did with not Poonam Dhillon like the with the taboo sister Farah yeah and it's just like

[00:44:42] it's this really twisted story about like how his stepmother wants to sleep with him and like he's in love with this girl and like there's like all these things happening but it's really interesting the way that he plays it and he's so cast in the mold of the

[00:45:01] noble hero and that's a man who was born knowing that he is the hero and that is why he's like the perfect cast for this particular character because it requires that kind of conviction

[00:45:18] from the actor. There is never like a doubt in this character's mind that you know like is he doing something wrong is he doing something you know like does the other guy have a point

[00:45:29] there's never any of that stuff he's just like I am right I make these terrible like jokes and like pull terrible pranks on my terrified girlfriend that's fine because I'm doing it my girl loves me I love my girl whatever I do is right.

[00:45:46] At some point he also even cracks the joke when like the Rahul character tells Sunil that you know I have a lover who just got married and the next plan is I'm going to kill her husband

[00:45:59] and he's like oh yeah and they clap and you know and then at the end when Rahul tells him at the very end that you know your problem is that you're a very good man right after he

[00:46:15] like you know like knives him in the stomach. It requires somebody like Sunil to play that character for that line to land the way it does and so and that particular scene by the way

[00:46:34] that scene right where he knives him you know the way that Shah Rukh plays you know that scene where he is sort of like cringing back and he's almost like Gollum you know he's just sort of

[00:46:47] like he turns into this creature like his body language completely changes while not just when he's getting beaten up but also like after he thinks he's killed Sunny you know the way that he crouch like half crouches while he's talking to the body like that whole scene is

[00:47:05] just one of the most terrifying things that happens in the film and for that to happen like the way that Sunny falls after being knifed you know it's just he's just very much like

[00:47:18] you know like the noble character that has been he can't believe it he cannot believe that this has happened to him and I think uh I don't know if it was RGB or like who it was like I but one of the directors

[00:47:38] once said that you know like if you cast the right person that's like 80% of your job done um it doesn't really like you know the acting is just the cherry on top or something

[00:47:48] and I truly believe that and like this movie is like a really great example of that and I'm coming from like watching the Ajay Devgan movie in which Shantanu Maheshwari plays the young Ajay Devgan so I'm really thinking a lot about you know casting on this

[00:48:07] episode. Watching um watching this movie also it made me think somebody should write a paper about um therapy within the Indian cinematic context you know like because I was thinking about because the whole reveal is happening where you know Shah Rukh is talking to his mom

[00:48:29] by the way was there a shot I don't know I remember when you see the phone is unplugged or was that not in yeah yeah did was that shot there because I didn't see it yesterday

[00:48:41] okay what shot I don't think this is shot but like I think you can see it yourself like that the that the phone is not yeah it's not just my memory of it I don't know

[00:48:53] but it was just funny that then because obviously he's talking to the doctor and then Dalip Tahil goes goes to the doctor and then the doctor has to reveal to us that the mom

[00:49:03] is dead right yeah so what's the problem he's like this doctor has no relationship Dalip Tahil just walks into the first doctor he could find after 21 years like but it was just it's funny that throughout a whole chunk of um cinematic history

[00:49:23] there was no therapy you just go to your doctor your general GP doctor and he will try to sort out your you know your psychological problems and now suddenly we have therapists on screen

[00:49:37] and I was like when did this shift happen was it dare zindagi or was it somewhere earlier that it happened I'm sure it did but I was like when did this switch happen from GP to going to an

[00:49:49] actual therapy and therapy being a job right no I love the sequence because uh you know like Dalip Tahil goes in and he's just like my son talks to his mother and the doctor is like

[00:49:59] what's wrong with this and he's like because his mother died 18 years ago and he's like oh I love it I love it it's like sorry I would have just loved to know what happened before that like

[00:50:14] what conversation they had to fix the point and and true about that even now when I was watching it again the therapy scene really stood out to me because I laughed at the same point as you all

[00:50:25] did probably because I was like uh that's one way to tell us that you know it's a twist uh but I found it particularly amusing that Dalip Tahil was playing his dad uh year it almost felt

[00:50:37] like revenge for like a month but it's also like really funny that uh later on like uh the doctor just continues by saying like and does he does he blame you for his mother's death and

[00:50:51] he's like I don't know like talk to my kid I'm off on missions with you know yeah but I want to this this time it really stood out to me because it plays so well and this is

[00:51:04] again direction the way the whole scene is set up and I'm piggybacking off a point Rahul made earlier that you know Rahul could be Sunil in Kabhi Ha Kabhi Na later on but what Sunil has and Rahul

[00:51:16] doesn't have is community right uh he has a whole village around him he has all of these people telling him even the priest is telling him no you went too far you shouldn't have done

[00:51:26] that that was really bad here the isolation he has because he cannot connect with his dad whatsoever he's in this room with projectors he's like constantly alone right and that just

[00:51:39] the sadness of it struck me so much this time um yeah I think it's just really well done the way it is and the other thing that he also does Shah Rukh and I think this is where the

[00:51:51] magic of Shah Rukh happens is that he the character believes so strongly that his love is the pure love right and it really stood out to me when he calls um Kiran he's like you know

[00:52:06] don't marry Sunil he wants to keep you captive in a cage I went to you know like like and I was like wow almost I believe it I was like maybe Kiran should marry this other guy

[00:52:21] it's interesting to see that both of them you know passed in the same class right they went in the same year like Kiran and Rahul and Kiran is married off so what's the background of Rahul

[00:52:34] right how what poetic education how is he so fluent in Shairi and where is this idea of romance coming into him? Being an artist and that's really disturbing we've seen enough field artist stories over the years and it is interesting because it happened just a couple

[00:52:52] of months after college or whatever they were where they were trying to pass off Swigil in a similar and I always constantly wonder about this little detail like what was Shah Rukh like

[00:53:03] did he have a career would he have a career did he ever have to like what was Juhi's sort of also in life is Sanidhya the only person who's working because even he's not working

[00:53:13] because every time he goes to Dalip Tihal like take two months off because you were used to success and the navy will not be pleased to know all this but also like because

[00:53:25] Shah Rukh not only that film even in sort of Bajigarh before that and then Kabhiya Kabhiya later it was never really sort of defined what really he did like even in Bajigarh his entire

[00:53:39] job was take over the Chopra empire like that was his job it didn't matter what his real vocation was and Kabhiya Kabhiya of course the whole struggle was that and I like that the film

[00:53:49] made it about that but he and it doesn't matter with an actor like him after a while you're like yeah he probably reads poetry on the side he probably watches a lot of films he probably

[00:53:59] watched Cape Fear just before that for all you know and got inspired by that so so yeah I constantly find it fascinating because this is a criticism we used to have in movies later

[00:54:08] in life saying what do people do in those films what are the jobs what are these professions are they there at all and I don't think I found myself wondering here because I believed

[00:54:19] every word that Shah Rukh said myself. Let's get into the songs of this movie because obviously it's a massive soundtrack too we talked about Jadu Teri Nazar and all that like also the picturization like again we were talking when we started the show

[00:54:35] we talked about you know certain shots in the picturization that stood out to me and I always the other shot I always remember is when in Chota Sa Ghar when she opens the door she walks out and she's suddenly in the Swiss Alps

[00:54:49] it's such a beautiful beautiful shot right like it's so well made and I think the entirety of this movie watching it again now I was thinking you know it's very classic Bollywood like it's not an any way shape or form nouveau Bollywood or you know anything that happened

[00:55:09] after Ram Gopal Verma or anything like that it is very much silsila or whatever else you want to call it but the treatment of the theme is quite fresh right like stalking and the way

[00:55:20] it's done a lot of the action sequences the way the dream sequences are shot even the kind of callback value to his own movies you know like when they're having the the

[00:55:34] Shadi song they explicitly mention Na Na Chudiya in it as a Chandni right so these two elements make this movie so fresh but otherwise it's just classic good steady Bollywood filmmaking right also like sort of what's the reverse of a throwback like a throw forward to like

[00:55:54] when Dil To Pagal Hai has the are re are theme happening when you know Madhuri keeps hearing that whistle tone and it's Rahul singing or whistling somewhere in the midst and that's

[00:56:05] supposed to be the two Dills meeting in the end and the two lovers forever and here you have the mouth organ theme of Jadu Teri Nazar as a sort of connection between the the

[00:56:14] stalkie and the stalker which is kind of weird that that motif remains in the Yash Chopra movies and then obviously the apartment or the house or the room view of yeah it's a very stereotypical Sharma Sharma Roy design that that's the the the

[00:56:34] apartment that Sunny gets for for them that's the same layout as Dil To Pagal Hai it's a that's exactly the studio yeah I thought that was the apartment where they kill Kalpana I was like is this where Kalpana got killed?

[00:56:50] Also like the same sort of bedroom where Juhi lives in before she gets married is kind of the same setting as Madhuri's room in Dil To Pagal Hai you can see the the terrace and

[00:57:03] the the the rain happening in the background and all that it's very Yash Chopra like it this is a Yash Chopra movie you know again like it's so elevated from everything that came out in

[00:57:14] this era. What was your favorite song Juhi? My favorite always has been Tu Mere Samne for some reason it's not because like it's the dream of the stalker or whatever but it's such a lovely

[00:57:26] song like the the the drum beats of this song are so hyped and then Udit Narayan's voice man and and yeah I love this song. That's my favorite song also that's by far like it's

[00:57:41] also like first of all it's an incredibly romantic song if you take away the fact that what we know about the film. Also there's such a big distinction between the songs that feature Shah Rukh and the songs that feature Sunny and Juhi like it's totally two

[00:57:59] different soundtracks for the longest time I thought it was a Anu Malik soundtrack only a couple years of years ago I was like okay this is heavy duty shit because it's actually Shiv Kumar Sharma and Hari Prasad Charasiya and I was like okay that is not

[00:58:12] supposed to be a Bollywood film and we know that from the way they use tabla throughout not only the chase sequence in these songs it's incredible like the fusion of two totally different worlds is crazy and of course Shah Rukh songs are for me you know obviously

[00:58:28] the favorite song because the other part of the film is basically Yash Chopra's film so Amrita, standout songs for you? Yeah this one, Tu Mere Samne is far and away the best song on the album like there's no contest but Jadu Teri Nazar obviously like you know it's

[00:58:45] like yeah as Rahul said it's interesting that both the two men get such different songs and that is also one of the things that really stood out to me because this is a movie made by a man who understands that music is integral to

[00:59:12] the classic Hindi cinema film and knows how to use those songs to further the narrative so when Jadu Teri Nazar plays in the beginning of the movie it really sets the tone for what is

[00:59:27] to follow. Also you never get to see Shah Rukh's face throughout that song right but it's like in the folklore of the legend that is Shah Rukh that is a Shah Rukh song now because it's

[00:59:38] obviously only Udit Narayan singing and speaking of you know how Sunny Deol must be you know feeling pissed off after what Durr became and what became of Shah Rukh Khan after

[00:59:51] this movie over the years I don't like he must get so pissed off and ever like Jadu Teri Nazar plays on the radio or he comes across that tune and it was like this song always follows me

[01:00:02] in some way some form. And then there's also the you know the dance that Juhi does in the rain where you know like it's just obsession it's called obsession like a perfume you know

[01:00:19] again like it's such a classic Yash Chopra thing like you know like there's one in Chandni there's one here there's one in Lambhai as well right yeah yeah yeah Dil To Pagal Hai like all

[01:00:31] of them have it and so there's obsession this envy dance of yeah yeah where is the dance of sloth for me and the it's really funny because the Sunny Deol songs sound kind of dated you know like

[01:01:05] the Chota Sa Ghar and everything it just sounds like dated in a way that Jadu Teri Nazar and don't feel like and it's very interesting to me the way Chopra and Shiv Hari use the music to

[01:01:23] you know to complement the storytelling. The only false note for me was like somewhere in between I think like when Sunny Deol gets on his little banana boat and goes to fight the

[01:01:34] terrorists they do like I don't know Top Gun, Last of the Mohicans and Top Gun like just straight up and it was also funny because also like clearly in the Indian cultural night where they have

[01:01:52] the masquerade ball they play Richard Marx from some reason throwback of that era right yeah and also like the story keeps changing how this movie was conceptualized sometimes they watched Cape Fair sometimes they never heard of Cape Fair you know then they also reference

[01:02:12] then I think it was Uday Chopra on his interview with he was saying that oh we were watching Death Calm and then we pitched this idea to Aditya and then that's when he is

[01:02:23] like and Yashnana I didn't remember that story so it's like he was like in that interview he's trying to like you know like yeah the last of the Mohicans is like the hero song for

[01:02:37] Sunny Deol and then you have the Top Gun song for the Navy recruitment thing that's happening right yeah 100% that's how we got those things right like bandana pen too but I think we're

[01:02:56] talking about the music and the songs but I think the one that also stands out to me is the background score especially in the chase sequence because that is such a frenetic kind of tabla

[01:03:08] playing that's going on it just I mean just rewatching that chase sequence right like I was thinking at what speed these guys were running right like like it's so full on and

[01:03:21] it's not like we see a lot of like chase sequences now and it's like parkour and like jumping off this and jumping off that there's none of that here happening right it's just a

[01:03:31] straight run but it's such a pulsating especially with the background score then they add these elements of almost catching him, him hitting the pole and Sunny is really closing in on him where you think like you know okay he is especially trained super soldier Captain America

[01:03:50] kind of person right like he's just going through it like even when those bicycles come in and then the background score changes and they have the little bells in the background and then he walks

[01:03:59] away and just pushes those bicycle people away because that's the mentality and it's like such good storytelling through action that sequence and I think that's why it's just standouts and it's not even one chase sequence we have two right I'd forgotten that the holy sequence was

[01:04:15] also a chase sequence like it's pretty darn amazing like in terms of filmmaking like I need to just give a shout out to the holy sequence because like you were saying in the beginning

[01:04:26] of this episode like what are the things that you always associate with that and that holy sequence for years like literal years whenever I'd be playing holy I'd just be like um

[01:04:38] who's in the crowd like I'd be a little bit like suspicious um but it just it's just such like I love it I love that entire sequence like I love the little close-ups on Shah Rukh's face

[01:04:53] where he's just standing there with his um you know with all the paint on his face and he's playing the drums and he's just um it's just incredibly sexy uh you know

[01:05:05] to to take like Rahul's dad's uh you know a note from Rahul's dad's book um he's just doing it like the way that it should be done um I love it Shah Rukh is just generally a really good

[01:05:20] instrument player I find like he puts his heart and soul in it he doesn't know shit about music clearly because his arms are going anywhere like no chord progression is being

[01:05:29] followed but he just does it with so much like empathy be it a violin or like when he's banging that drum it brings you back to Mahobbate right when the crowd opens up and he just brings that

[01:05:42] something similar in Koila as well right in the Sasukinala song and obviously you know the introduction to Maya where he's playing the drums you know in Dil Toh Pagal Hai uh yeah Baazikar violin you know like it's always been like yeah it's like Shah Rukh has

[01:05:58] that and then Salman has guitar without chord you know like we're like completely different words both work both are amazing but like this is Shah Rukh this is Salman like look at their instruments something else that I noticed in this rewatch was a how Anupam Kher and Dalip

[01:06:15] Tahil both have very um profession related puns like Anupam Kher is always making cricket puns in his dialogue everything has to be cricket related and and Dalip Tahil has always nautical jokes like every life should have an anchor and all of that it's just

[01:06:36] also what is it about Dalip Tahil that he always played a single father and he never had a wife he kills all his wives I think that's the back story yeah he's just a kind of guy who you want to

[01:06:49] like imagine okay maybe he was responsible for them like not being there so yeah but um yeah it's but Rahul did you have anything on the chase sequence that we want to

[01:07:02] talk about I think I cut you off no one of the great action sequences of the 90s honestly even after the 90s because we don't see that rawness anymore right like also with technology getting better with our heroes getting more like you know these these like those he-man

[01:07:16] figures we used to have it's really difficult to craft something like that or even culturally think like that anymore so and I think I feel like a lot of it had to do with the fact that

[01:07:28] Yash Chopra was in a phase where he was making maybe you know slightly non-action films that the couple of action sequences in this film suddenly felt like it was made by someone who's coming from an absolutely different space and that helps sometimes like not really knowing the genre

[01:07:45] and I think and to shoot in peak Bombay like the both of those action sequences and throughout the 90s we see like his bystanders looking into the camera and like always watching shootings and all here it felt actually cool because they were these guys were like going

[01:08:00] through them at full speed and through Juhu and through a bunch of very famous landmarks in Bombay and it never felt like you know they were being shot at any point it just

[01:08:10] felt like they were two normal guys running for their lives and both of them end with such a bang because one like he throws a bottle on the head in the holy one and the car absolutely

[01:08:21] like destroys Sanidhal and I was cheering by then when Sanidhal was almost killed here and I was like that's where the film should have ended because now it's Raoul's turn to take over but yeah yeah and it's also like it's so pulsating and amazing this movie that you

[01:08:40] also forget its flaws like in a way right like clearly when he does when he gets hit on the bottle and he does that front flip you can see he's wearing knee pads you know like

[01:08:50] plannings are like in this chase sequence in Switzerland when he playing the piano he starts running for the running sequences he's wearing sneakers and then when the running stops he's wearing like brown moccasins again like he switches shoes in the middle and also like when

[01:09:13] you know he eventually wakes up alone in the cottage right and then he realizes maybe something's wrong and he hears the mouth organ somewhere in the background and starts running frantically and he gets into the forest for some reason he's running in the water no

[01:09:28] rhyme or reason he's just running in the water just because the shot looks cool you know amazing also one thing I noticed I don't know why maybe somebody ever wrote about this I missed it but

[01:09:40] Shah Rukh is holding his belly the entire time have you noticed this so there's a there's a like I don't know if it's true or not because maybe it's just like I was a kid and it just

[01:09:51] stayed in my head but someone told me then that I think while shooting he broke his hand I think it was his left or his right hand whichever hand he was like holding his tummy

[01:10:01] with during tu mere samne I thought the hand was fractured basically and he was still not willing to stop shooting basically I think I read some story like even like that or that

[01:10:14] it got edited they had something else but I was like it's such a weird pose but it helps because Amrita when you're saying like he really is hunched up like Gollum it aids to

[01:10:24] that but he is kind of holding his belly I was like maybe the last night drinking didn't go well on you know his belly or something like that but yeah but yeah I think any other standout

[01:10:35] scenes this is like the episode anything Amrita that you we haven't discussed that you want to talk about anything like that I have a point I have a thing about again the aging of it

[01:10:46] right because and I was discussing this with Sujoy yesterday while we were on the Palestine March we it's funny this movie because it there is an argument to be made that it maybe glorifies

[01:10:59] talking right but it's also in this weird way about where all of the lyrics in the songs are also about glorifying weird stuff towards women like ang se ang laga de you know like

[01:11:16] you know like chota sa ghar like all of these have lyrics where are slightly creepy but I find because Yash Chopra, Sunny Deol are of that era it's not supposed to be creepy but I feel

[01:11:30] when you rewatch it now this is a movie that can get cancelled very quickly by you know being overly sensitive to certain things because but I don't know did any of that ever stand out to

[01:11:41] you while you were rewatching it definitely jumped out for me especially how they also treat Kiran like like I feel Anupam Kher I remembered how much I hate Anupam Kher's character A I don't

[01:11:52] like cricket B I don't like Anupam Kher and I was like maybe I never liked Anupam Kher maybe there was a moment he you know Kuchi and Popo part me into thinking that I like the guy

[01:12:01] for DDLJ but maybe I never liked the guy so I was like hey he's very very annoying in this No I generally don't agree with all the children when they're talking about like XYZ is glorifying

[01:12:18] you know ABC in this movie because 99.99% of the time they don't understand what the word glorify means and depiction is not the same as glorification the only way that you can say

[01:12:34] that this movie glorifies talking is because Shah Rukh Khan is doing it and Shah Rukh Khan is just an eminently watchable actor and people disconnect with him in a way that is completely

[01:12:47] otherworldly like that is just what stardom does so and when he was cast in this movie he wasn't even like the Shah Rukh Khan he was just like some kid that walked in off

[01:12:58] the street you know so I don't think like that's what this movie was trying to say whatsoever it's very clear all throughout and especially towards the end that Rahul is a deeply disturbed individual and that nothing good can ever come of it and it would be a waste

[01:13:20] of time and effort to even show him pity because that's what Sunny does right before he gets knifed in the stomach and then Shah Rukh just makes like you know subtext into

[01:13:32] text and says that you know like you shouldn't be such a good person especially to me because I'm a golem and I think if you are watching this on a very superficial level and if you're

[01:13:48] just completely media illiterate then you could make that you know that case but if you can actually watch a movie and try and understand what it's trying to say I don't think you'd

[01:14:01] ever think that this movie is trying to glorify stalking and I say that even though like I grew up in India at the same time that you're talking about us and where like people were

[01:14:11] letters and blood and all that nonsense right and that was definitely propelled by this movie but I think this movie basically portrays that mindset which was not created by this movie this movie is a reflection of a mindset that previously existed I think that's the difference

[01:14:32] yeah when you said when you said Rahul is a deeply disturbed individual I was like I've heard that line before but it's it's first of all this was I think the first film he was

[01:14:43] named Rahul before he reformed my name and I was happy for that but I totally agree with you know what Amrita said about the glorification part or the lack of it because

[01:14:56] it is the fact it is the fact that Shah Rukh played this role you know and he wasn't the Shah Rukh we know that you know right now and there's not the little fact that he died in

[01:15:08] most of these films if you even want to look at it from say from this from a perspective of 2024 saying does the character sort of get rewarded or get punished for what he does

[01:15:23] and which a lot of which we saw an animal last year you know he got away with everything which we saw in a lot of films he they get forgiven for being the way they are apart from

[01:15:33] the fact that he was mentally ill in this film Shah Rukh died in Bazigarh he died in Dar, he died in Anjam these were some of his most powerful roles because of how good an actor he

[01:15:42] is not because he's trying to sell the character to the country and it is very it's very much a film of its time in terms of how Juhi Chawla has written or how Anupam Kher as

[01:15:54] a older brother which I can't sort of get my head around sort of treats her or you know Sanidul doesn't take us seriously but it works in context of the theme of this film

[01:16:06] like it entirely works because at one point I found myself thinking that you know what Rahul is doing to her or saying to her is not very different from her normal environment how internalized the sort of patriarchy is in her normal household he's a heightened

[01:16:22] version of that and he thinks that is fine because that's the sort of setting he's grown up in himself he has only a father he has no mother he's probably the only he's probably

[01:16:34] the only child himself so yeah I mean it has to be looked at in context of everything and it's very easy to get outraged about the 90s films right now but I will never get on board

[01:16:48] with the Shah Rukh Khan sort of films being criticized for the same things that Ranbir Kapoor films are being criticized now. Yeah I was actually I thought of that because I was watching that long-ass Ranbir Kapoor interview that's been going on I haven't finished it

[01:17:03] because it's like 70 chapters. Sujai man any final words on that? So because this is a 90s movie and you know there are no mobile phones or cameras and I was thinking how would it play

[01:17:17] in a world where we are constantly connected and like you know cyber stalking and you know all of those profile stalking etc how would Rahul in a in a 2024 world as a stalker obsessive lover

[01:17:33] would be and I think I saw like on the Wikipedia that DIRD 2.0 was supposed to be like a web series that Y-Films were supposed to make but it eventually got shelved and it was

[01:17:45] trying to delve into that world of you know cyber stalking digital crimes and all of that and also the kind of funny side to that is there is a song in one of my favorite shows as

[01:17:59] um Crazy Ex-Girlfriend called Research Me Obsessively if you guys have heard that one it's such a great song but it also talks about you know being an obsessive lover but from the female perspective so yeah so yeah all of that.

[01:18:17] I think they talked about this also in Eeg Villain Returns with Tara Sutaria and Arjun. Only you watch that movie. I like how I started this chat like I'll watch pulpy movies and never talk about it then I'll tell you that I'm

[01:18:39] Rahul's like I had a job to watch it and I even I didn't do it. Yeah I was just going to I was just going to what I was just going to say why would anyone You stand corrected.

[01:18:50] I remember I had a flight to I had a flight to catch like in a couple of hours after watching Eeg Villain Returns and I had to turn in the review within like before the flight so

[01:19:01] I was spending most of my time at the airport writing on my cell phone the review of Eeg Villain Returns and questioning whether I made the right life choices and whether it's all

[01:19:09] worth it at all like do people even care anymore what am I doing with my life. It's one of those moments but I don't know how we've gotten to Eeg Villain Returns but

[01:19:18] I just want to mention one more moment which has been sort of imprinted in my memory and I keep so anyone I turn onto Dar whether it's a friend whether it's my partner like I

[01:19:30] convince them that Dar is a great film Rabne is a great film I always have like one moment where I brainwash them into sort of watching again and again and that's in the ending which

[01:19:39] we are discussing on the board when of course when Sunny Deol comes back and starts sort of beating Shah Rukh to pulp there's a one particular moment when Juhi Chawla is like

[01:19:54] and this Shah Rukh's eyes then is not very different from the eyes he makes for the rest of the 90s in a lot of his romantic films but the way the heartbreak sort of showed on his face

[01:20:07] then I mean it came very close to making me feel like terrible for the character that is just grand acting that is insane acting with what he and people keep talking about Shah Rukh's

[01:20:19] eyes and you know the way he uses his face I don't think I've ever seen him use his eyes in that one cut away to his face when he realizes that the woman he loves wants him dead

[01:20:29] and that's very heartbreaking to think about and you can and that's when he gives up fighting back that's when like he's like okay kill me it doesn't matter I could kill Sunny Deol if

[01:20:40] I want but you know I won't anyways nobody remember him after this one but yeah I really love that moment it's um and that's another moment I watched like time and again just to remind myself

[01:20:52] that Shah Rukh was once probably the best actor we've had in Hindi cinema I don't think he's that anymore but it's been 90s was like a golden sort of thing but then you know that

[01:21:03] was such a nice way to end the movie but then the choice of them to end it then at the airport with Sunny Deol saying I love you K K K K K Kiran what the hell he really wanted to say

[01:21:16] yeah waiting for three hours to do it and uh yeah but that I guess that is that era right we have to give a little bit of Anupam Kher back which is like ah like why you know um I like that

[01:21:31] you're refusing to remember his name because you don't like him what was his name no Anupam Kher it's like when people serve cheese after dinner right like we had dessert like cheese ko samjh mein nahi aata mere like I'm married to I'm married to a French lady

[01:21:48] but luckily she's lactose intolerant so we don't have cheese at the end yeah um I think that I think because I'm not an actor right like I have no acting bone in me

[01:22:06] but when you see something like that it's like how do you do it like how do you do like you know it really makes you wonder about how good he is uh yeah I'm really happy we rewatched

[01:22:17] Durr I think we also I'm really happy that we waited for Rahul to be on the show to talk about Rahul um so I'm really happy that you joined us um Rahul man where can people find

[01:22:29] you online at the moment um right now I'm just uh on real reptile on twitter um not a lot of writing happening but hopefully soon I'll get back to it uh but yeah thank you for having me

[01:22:41] it's been great and I think it was meant to be that we discussed that uh we came very close to Mohabbatein but I'm glad we didn't also so I would have taken Mohabbatein man I I I

[01:22:55] Mohabbatein was the movie I used to make my Gora friends watch all the time like it's so random right when I was like you know this is what desi love is like Mar gayi phir bhi nahi chodein yeah Myles, you learnt Hindi watching Mohabbatein?

[01:23:13] Watching Mohabbatein like I always had like I mean I grew up in Gujarat so it was very broken Hindi uh English was always my language at home but uh my like I learnt filmy Hindi through Mohabbatein through Aditya Chopra's dialogues in that film which is really underrated

[01:23:29] it was I mean just one anecdote before this is not a Mohabbatein podcast but uh my tenth boards was in the same year as Mohabbatein and uh one of the essays we had to write there was bhel ki atma kata which was like autobiography of a bull

[01:23:44] I used Narayan Shankar's dialogues in that essay and I didn't do very well in the exam it was one of the least sort of this but I wrote a first person perspective of a bull using Narayan

[01:23:56] Shankar's dialogues in that hoping that maybe the examiner hasn't probably seen Mohabbatein so This is amazing we have to we have to have you back Yes we have to you have to come back for Mohabbatein you can't like just throw that

[01:24:13] anecdote out there it's a teaser it's a teaser you have to come back and talk to us about Mohabbatein like that's just okay we're putting Mohabbatein on layaway for Rahul when he comes back then yeah in the Tupperware. Amrita where can people find you online? You can

[01:24:28] find me at Twitter at Amrita IQ. Sujoy? You can find me on Twitter Instagram and TikTok at 93k and you can also follow khandaan podcast on all our socials at khandaan podcast especially on YouTube we're doing stuff there follow us there apparently that's the only way

[01:24:46] you can make money so follow us on YouTube leave a comment do the other things that YouTubers tell you to do we need to do that now too we have to pivot but yeah drop us an email at

[01:25:02] upodcasting.gmail.com and we'll be back with a new episode I think next episode might be Barsakh if my timing is correct but let's see thank you for listening