412: Emmy Voting is Open! 2024 Emmy Nomination Predictions and Analysis with NPR TV Critic Eric Deggans.

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[00:01:18] If it felt like just a few months ago we talked about the Emmys and watched a ceremony, well, it is because it was just a few months ago. Because of the writers and actors' strikes, the 75th Emmys were pushed from September 2023 to January just this year.

[00:01:36] But now we're smack in the middle of kind of the real Emmy season so to speak. The 76th Emmy Awards will be on September 15th. And if you've been hearing a lot of interviews and news about TV and the Emmys, it's

[00:01:49] because the voting started just a few days ago. And nominations are going to be announced in July on the 15th. So it's a crucial period. I'm so glad to have with me NPR's great critic and media analyst and friend of the show, Eric Deggans.

[00:02:05] Thanks so much for being here with me. Sure, thanks for having me. Before we get into some predictions of what you think is going to be nominated, the Academy, what they're voting on now is the prime time television programming between June 1st, 2023 and May 31st, 2024.

[00:02:22] In general, has it been a good TV year? Has it been exciting, you think? It's been a very tough year because the strikes disrupted a lot of production throughout the summer and the fall of last year.

[00:02:37] And the fear that there might still yet be another strike by a different union this year I think has led outlets to be conservative in the amount of projects that they're putting in the pipeline.

[00:02:52] So we haven't seen, I think, a great amount of film or television really come to the fore since the strikes ended. People kind of thought that the industry would really rebound and get right back to the level of production that we saw before the strikes happened.

[00:03:12] But I've been saying for a long time that you get to the end of the strike and you have a contract where it costs the studios more to make product. And then you come out of that also with the sense that there's a fear

[00:03:28] that another strike might be coming next year. And on top of all of that, there was already this sense that there was too much television out there. So you knew there were going to be cutbacks. So the result is that there's been I think a tremendous slowdown

[00:03:42] in the amount of production. A lot of people are worried about not having work. And we still don't know whether or not there's going to be another strike by this other union, Aayatsi. And so there's just a tremendous amount of uncertainty.

[00:03:58] And I think the level of competition has dropped a bit. I do think it's also worth noting that even though the Emmy Award broadcast was pushed back to this year, the voting always remained on the same timetable.

[00:04:14] So as far as voting goes and what people will be considering this year versus the last contest, that doesn't really change. The eligibility period was still the same July to May. And so we had this weird situation where people had watched or were watching the bear.

[00:04:42] Exactly. We were seeing the next season when we were voting on the last season. Exactly. The bears episodes dropped just after the eligibility period for Emmys ends. So these fantastic episodes with guest actors like Jamie Lee Curtis

[00:05:01] and John Mulaney and Bob Odenkirk, those weren't eligible for the last Emmys. They're eligible for the voting that's happening now. And the voting is going on while the new episodes of The Bear are going to drop. Right. In a couple of weeks, it's crazy.

[00:05:19] It's actually kind of if the show that you're hoping to get nominated is rising in quality, it's actually very smart because people last year were voting on Emmy consideration for The Bear at a time when it was airing

[00:05:36] its best ever episodes, these episodes that we're talking about now. So even the Christmas episode forks. And also, I think the last episode of the season was also really poignant. And so even though the judges technically are supposed to be voting

[00:05:56] on the previous season's episodes, I think it's hard to avoid the fact that if the show is doing really well while you're voting, that that improves your opinion of it. They're only human. They're taking that gamble again, I think, by the third season

[00:06:13] is going to drop in just a few weeks. And so people will be voting while the new season is rolling out. And there's going to be a lot of hype around it and people are going to be paying attention to it.

[00:06:23] And with any luck, I haven't seen the screeners yet, but with any luck, the show will have taken another jump in quality. And again, people will be voting, but there'll be all this buzz about the current season. So that's the thing that's a little confusing about the Emmys.

[00:06:42] And you know, the Emmys, the timing has always been set up that way because they tried to avoid the major film awards. So they tried to get away from the beginning of the year where the Golden Globes are and where the Oscars are.

[00:06:57] And so in order to do that, they had this sort of weird eligibility period so that the eligibility period would end just a few months before the actual ceremony happened. But, you know, unfortunately last year they couldn't hold the ceremony

[00:07:13] because of the strikes and it got pushed back. And then we had this sort of absurd situation where they were announcing results for voting that had happened, you know, six months ago. Yeah, and also we were seeing the Bear Win everywhere else because it was the Golden Globes.

[00:07:27] And it is kind of confusing to have it in September. But at the same time, it was a lot going on in January. I think it's better for the awards to have them kind of stretched out. And it's certainly better for the Emmys

[00:07:41] to not have the Emmy Awards be announced at the same time. I mean, you know, from January to, you know, I don't know when the Oscars are going to be this time either because they got moved. But you have a long string where you have the Golden Globes,

[00:07:56] you have the Critics' Choice Awards, you have the SAG Awards, you have Sundance happening, you have all these things happening in a row leading up to the Oscars. It's all, most of it is focused on film. It just made sense to move the TV Awards to some part

[00:08:10] of the year where none of that is going on. And it just got messed up because of the strike this last year. I think it'll make a lot more sense this year and the timing will get back on track.

[00:08:20] The only thing that's weird about it is the eligibility period, I think is weird, because the eligibility period was set up back when TV had a really old school schedule where the TV season for most programming started in the fall in September and it ended in May.

[00:08:41] And so you only had a few projects that might fall outside that window. So if you had an eligibility period that ended on May 31st, you got most of the programming that happened that year. But now we're to the point where shows can debut anytime.

[00:08:55] And so you have something like The Bear where it's consistently airing in June. So it's always behind the eligibility period. So it always feels like they're honoring the previous years. Yeah, well for now it's worked out. Well, it's worked out for The Bear

[00:09:15] just because The Bear is such a good show that it has kind of defied all of these dynamics. And like I said, I think FX has always been very smart about how it plans these things. And I think they realized that The Bear would be kind

[00:09:31] of an awards magnet and that it would be interesting to have a situation where they had new episodes airing while people were voting on the Emmys. And there's only a few shows that have pulled that off. I want to see a little bit what

[00:09:46] you are predicting what will be the big nominees. I want to start with a category that felt like it got really massive just the past few months. And that's best limited in anthology. And that's because of, for example, Baby Reindeer

[00:10:00] which all of a sudden became this huge, massive hit. I've actually read that it's one of Netflix biggest hits ever. And we got Ripley that came out recently. True Detective felt like it was huge. What are some of the things you're seeing the front runners for that category?

[00:10:15] Well, I think you identified some of the top ones that will be under consideration. I do think that the limited, I mean what's interesting to me about the limited series actually is that it's always been a really bustling category because that's where a lot of streaming's

[00:10:36] most notable programming goes because a lot of these streaming series are one-offs. And so, beef was in this category last year and there's a Fargo, I think is Fargo in this category. Yes, Fargo's here. Yeah, Fargo's in this category. So we've always had for a while now

[00:10:58] popular series and well-done series that kind of land in the limited series or anthology category. And Fargo is one that you didn't mention but I think it's gonna be a strong contender. But the other ones that you mentioned I think are also really important.

[00:11:14] And some of the biggest actors are in this category too, right? Because they wanna say yes for a limited series instead of something that goes on and on. So you'll see in here, for example, we have like Jon Hamm, Jodie Foster and True Detective,

[00:11:27] the sort of big stars you'll find here. Feud also has some huge stars in it. Right, right. Yeah, people who are popular in film or have careers where they go back and forth between TV and film are much more likely to say yes to a limited series.

[00:11:44] So you're gonna get bigger names. You're gonna get Nicole Kidman as a possible nominee for Expat. So you're gonna get Annette Bening as a possible nominee for Apple's Never Fall on Peacock. You're gonna get, as you said, Jodie Foster, Andrew Scott from Ripley, Jon Hamm.

[00:12:04] These are all people. Jennifer Jason Lee, people forget that she did such an amazing job in Fargo. Dakota Fanning from Ripley. These are names that you're used to seeing in film. Kate Winslet from The Regime. I'm not sure if people like that one, but.

[00:12:22] Yeah, I mean, if anything gets nominated, it would be her. Cause she did an amazing job in a mediocre TV show. But what's interesting, I mean the overall thing that's interesting is where shows are categorized because I think it was thought for a long time

[00:12:44] that Shogun was gonna dominate this category because people did not expect him to do another season of it. Right, that's why it's in drama. I was gonna ask you that, but it's been announced, of course. Yeah, for a long time

[00:12:58] it was thought that it was gonna be a one-off. And so those of us who watch these things thought, well, Shogun is gonna come in and it's just gonna dominate the limited category. But they announced not too long ago that they're gonna do a second season.

[00:13:12] And so then that made it a drama series. And so now it has shifted to the drama series. Now, in a way that's good for the show's chances of getting nominated because the drama category has some holes in it now that succession, for example,

[00:13:29] which always won in that category and soaked up a lot of acting nominations because the cast always did well. It's not eligible anymore. They're not making any new episodes of it. So Shogun, the positioning of Shogun, and it's so weird. You don't wanna think,

[00:13:47] this show has a tremendous production budget and takes a lot of effort. So I'm sure they didn't just decide to green light a second season so it would move categories. But I wouldn't be surprised if that was one factor in why they decided to bring it back

[00:14:03] because it does make it much more likely, I think, that Shogun is gonna get multiple nominations. And I think it makes it much more likely that it will win that category. So Fargo's not in limited series and there's this perennial debate

[00:14:25] over whether shows like The Bear and Hacks are actually comedy. And they're competing in a comedy category. And again, there's a sense that maybe some of the shows like Ted Lasso that used to rule that category, they're not there anymore either. So that may be an easier category

[00:14:49] for The Bear to dominate rather than having to go up against Shogun, which is a newer and shinier toy for Emmy voters. So it's interesting, and FX will push back strenuously against any idea that The Bear is not a comedy.

[00:15:06] But I personally think the reason why people love it is the dramatic moments. Oh, I could not agree more, absolutely. People don't spend a lot of time laughing at the show, even though there are humorous moments in it. It's because it touches you,

[00:15:21] the family moments, the drama moment, absolutely. Yeah, the drama of it. And so, I mean, I've talked to some people from FX about this and a big part of their argument is episodes are half hour long. Well, come on. We'll throw that right? I don't know about that.

[00:15:42] I don't know about that. So- But to clarify, because Fargo isn't limited and people know that it's come back- Fargo is an anthology. It's an anthology, exactly. The limited series category also covers anthologies. So that's why True Detective is there too. Because all of the characters change.

[00:16:02] There is no character that holds over from the previous season. It's a new story with new characters in a new environment. That's why Fargo and True Detective are both in that category. And it's also why the White Lotus was not. Because the White Lotus had a character

[00:16:19] that carried over from the previous season, which indicated that they had a shared environment. So it was really a series. What do you think of Baby Reign? There's so much talk about it. Do you think it has chances to break through to actually win something?

[00:16:35] Will the actors, Jessica Gunn for example? Yeah, I think it will. I think it will get nominated in the category. Again, because there might have been more of a question if Shogun was in that category. The thing that is also sort of painfully obvious

[00:16:55] about the Emmys is that Emmy voters are not watching a wide range of shows. What tends to happen is they settle on shows that they like and then they nominate the people who are going to win those shows extensively. That's what happened with White Lotus.

[00:17:12] That's what happened with Succession. That's what happened with The Bear. That's what happened with Abbott Elementary where they decide they like a show and then not only does the show get nominated, but a bunch of people from the cast get nominated

[00:17:25] and it fills up all the acting nominations as well. So I think a show like Shogun that comes along is so obviously high quality and so obviously the kind of thing that Emmy awards, you know it's gonna eat up a bunch of nominations in whatever place it's slotted.

[00:17:45] So if it's slotted as a drama series now, which is where it is now, then you know it's gonna eat up a bunch of the acting nominations too. A bunch of the people from the cast will probably get nominated.

[00:17:56] So the fact that Baby Reindeer is not in that category, that it's in a limited series, I think gives it more of a fighting chance. And I think frankly it's gonna be harder for shows like Apples Never Fall.

[00:18:07] I think Apples Never Fall is a perfect example of a show that if it didn't have all this high powered competition from these better known shows, they would have a chance of getting some acting nominations because Annette Bening is really good in it

[00:18:26] and some of the other people, some of the other performers in the show are pretty good. It's completely flown under the radar. It's an interesting limited series, but I would be surprised if it gets many nominations because Emmy voters haven't seen it and probably haven't heard about it.

[00:18:45] It's just so stacked all the women from Feud, you have all the incredible performers in True Detective. I mean, you just can't even see where anything is gonna fit. Well, and Feud is a good example to me of a show that's gonna get more attention

[00:19:01] because the cast is well known. Nomi Watson. Lots of well known women in the cast, but the actual show is not that great. So will they get nominated? How will Emmy voters sort of react to a show that has a lot of showy performances from big name actresses,

[00:19:27] but the actual program is not compelling? At least to my sensibilities, and I think if you look at the reviews, you get that sense. And you're not really seeing, I think, buzz about the actual program. You're seeing buzz about the performers who were in it

[00:19:48] as opposed to something like, again, I think you're going back to Shogun, or Baby Reindeer is another example. That's a show that has gotten a lot of attention because the story is compelling. And people watched it, and they felt it was really impactful

[00:20:08] as opposed to having a bunch of stars do impressions of these people that most folks have never heard of now. You know, it's just been so long. And not necessarily having that add up to a powerful narrative. So it'll be interesting to see where some of these lesser,

[00:20:30] I mean, to a lesser extent, that might also be true of Ripley where people really like the look of the show and they liked the performances, particularly Andrew Scott's performance. But I think reviews of that show have also been somewhat mixed. But I think it's much more likely

[00:20:46] that it will get some major nominations. Time to enjoy your city in full swing. Today you can go to your favorite bar with your friends. Let your car stand at home. Just book a ride and pick up the others on the way.

[00:21:01] You can use the stop function to save time and money. Click on the banner and book your ride. Comfortably through your city with the Uber app. Uber gives you rides and is not a promoter. Well, we talked a lot about drama. I completely agree.

[00:21:16] Shogun feels like it's gonna dominate. And there, there seems to be shows that people have already sort of rewarded. The Crown, the morning show. That's like you say, is sort of the major show. The actors, I definitely see Anna Sawai getting one of the nominations.

[00:21:31] Yeah, if Anna Sawai doesn't get nominated in Curia, Keese and Hadassah, she'd probably also be nominated. And the main supporting actor whose name is escaping me. All three of them really should be nominated if there's any justice. Again, like I said, there's a sense that Emmy voters

[00:22:01] just kind of zero in on certain shows. So Shogun has gotten so much attention and is gaining so much buzz for being good. And I don't think there's any doubt that the Emmy voters are gonna watch it and once they watch it, they have to honor these people.

[00:22:18] Do you think Emma Stone will get in for The Curse? Which is such an interesting show that I think divided so many, but she just had a great Oscar year. What's interesting to me about the actors category in the drama series is that there are a lot

[00:22:32] of contenders that are in shows that it's hard to know what Emmy voters will actually think of them. Again, when you have a sense that Emmy voters are just zeroing in on a few favorite shows, did they actually see The Curse? The curse is on Showtime.

[00:22:50] And some people are calling Showtime like a zombie cable channel now because it's been so overshadowed. With the people fleeing the cable TV universe in general, Showtime was always the secondary premium cable channel. It was always living in the shadow of HBO.

[00:23:15] And now we've reached a point where HBO's name has been taken off of HBO Max. Even this legendary creator of premium television has seen its brand diminished in recent years. And so Showtime is almost like the forgotten stepchild of Paramount Global, the company that owns it.

[00:23:38] And so will Emmy viewers have even seen The Curse? That is the question there. But you have a lot of these shows. You have like Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you have The Curse, you have The Crown. The Crown seems to have really diminished

[00:23:57] in terms of how the public's attention to the show and the sense of its quality. I think it's really dipped. And I would be amazed if it was a factor in the Emmys. But the one thing that you can say is that the actors did an amazing job,

[00:24:22] particularly Elizabeth DeBecchi playing Princess Diana, which could have been a thankless role and she really did an amazing job with it. So will the quality of her performance be recognized or will people sort of feel like she had her shot

[00:24:37] in the last Emmys and it's time to move on? I frankly think that Crown won't be much of a factor this time around. But you've got some of these shows like Slow Horses on Apple TV+, Fallout, there's always a sense that the Emmy voters are willing to take

[00:24:58] one genre show or maybe two genre shows, shows that are science fiction or horror and elevate them if they're good enough. Did Fallout make enough of an impact when it was new that it might get nominated for best drama series? I think it has a spot.

[00:25:16] I'm thinking Three Body Problem was such a huge hit. Could that be something? Yeah, Three Body Problem is possible, although I think the reviews on Three Body Problem were a bit more mixed, in part because American audiences weren't familiar with the show

[00:25:35] or weren't familiar with the book or the concept as much. Fallout is a popular video game and a lot of people in America already were waiting for that show. But yeah, I think you're right. I think if there's gonna be a genre nominee,

[00:25:50] it's either gonna be Three Body Problem or Fallout and the question is which of those that Emmy voters actually watch? No. But, and I also think the question is will The Crown still be relevant? Will some of these shows that are good enough to be nominated,

[00:26:09] but frankly the Emmy voters have never paid attention to like Slow Horses, like Loki. That's another one where technically it could be a genre nomination, but it's episodes aired so long ago and there's so many conflicted feelings about where Marvel is headed these days.

[00:26:30] Loki was probably the best Marvel product to come out in the eligibility period, but will it actually pick up a nomination? Emmy voters love Tom Hiddleston so that may help and they also love Kate Leigh Kwan who played a supporting role on the show this past time

[00:26:49] and they like Owen Wilson too. So it's possible. There's chances, yeah. Yeah, that show might be in the hunt as well just because the stars, the Emmy voters tend to like the stars. So we have a lot of these shows where it's hard to gauge their popularity

[00:27:05] and it's tough to know if the Emmy voters actually watch them. That's why I'm gonna watch the nominations so closely because once you see, the key things to look at is how many nominations did each show get because that tells you what the Academy in general

[00:27:21] feels about the show. Where's the love, yeah. When you, in years past, Ted Lasso and Succession and The Crown would get the most nominations, well that will tell you that they'll probably do well in all the other categories too because most of the Academy members

[00:27:39] seem to really like the show. And then the other thing you look at is how many people from the cast get nominated in the acting categories. So if you find something like Shogun, if you find something like The Bear, if you find something like True Detective,

[00:27:57] just running the board where everybody in the cast gets nominated. That's another indication of how popular the show is. And it's interesting because in years past, when you saw multiple nominees from the same show, you would think that they would split the vote,

[00:28:12] that people who liked that show would vote for one or the other of the candidates and that wouldn't add up to a win. But what we're seeing now, again, is that Emmy voters are watching such a narrow range of shows. Oh, interesting.

[00:28:26] That when multiple people get nominated from a show, it's just an indication that the Academy has watched the show and is recognizing its quality and one person from that show is probably going to win the category. A lot of things have changed. It's a science.

[00:28:41] It's not, it's a guessing game really, but you try to make educated guesses based on what you've seen. In terms of comedy, you mentioned the bear. And of course this is that season two with the incredible episodes, Seven Fishes, Forks and the season finale

[00:28:58] was it feels like it's gonna dominate. But so many people have been talking about Hacks and about the actors in Hacks and how incredible they are. Do you see at all that Hacks could come up and threaten this?

[00:29:10] Gene Smart could sort of be a bit of a front runner before A.U.A. Debris who did win a lot this January. Yeah. Well, I think Gene Smart, you know, Emmy, this is an interesting conflict because Emmy voters also show a preference for some actors.

[00:29:29] You can get a sense that they really love certain actors. Tony Shalhoub, Julia Louis-Dreyfus. You know, whenever these people get nominated they often ended up winning their category even when they got nominated for shows that didn't get a lot of love anywhere else.

[00:29:44] And so Gene Smart is kind of in that category. I think, you know, Emmy voters really like her but she's up against a young talent who is crushing it in the role that she's being nominated for. And kind of crushing it everywhere, I have to say. Yeah.

[00:30:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So she did win a lot last time but I still think she's gonna be a force this time. And even though people are talking about hacks and there is a lot of love for that show out there, there's also a lot of debate

[00:30:25] about whether it's even a comedy. Because again, this is a show, even though it's about comics, whenever they have to be funny, to my ears, they are not funny. Yeah, when they have scenes where, you know, Gene Smart, for those who haven't seen the show,

[00:30:42] plays an older comic star, sort of like a Joan Rivers kind of comedian. And she's constantly negotiating a relationship with this younger woman who is her head writer. And you know, they come together, they are in opposition, they are friends, they are close, they are frenemies sometimes.

[00:31:08] You know, it's a very complicated relationship between these two characters. And then the show also uses their relationship as a way to comment on show business in Hollywood and how fame works and what it means to get old. Misogyny and ageism and all that stuff.

[00:31:22] Yeah, what it means to get old as a performer. You know, all of the things frankly that Joan Rivers sort of made us think about in just watching her career unfold. So it's a wonderful tapestry where they can talk about a lot of things

[00:31:39] but in moments where the show is supposed to deliberately be funny, I think a lot of times it isn't. And the most poignant elements of the show again are not when it's making you laugh, it's when it's making you think and when there are dramatic moments

[00:31:54] between the characters. And that's what's really powering people's interest in the show and why it's considered a high quality show. The same as The Bear though, I mean they share that. It is the same with The Bear. I think both of them are not comedies.

[00:32:08] I think both of them are dramas that are occasionally funny. And they're defined as comedies in part because there's a sense that they'll compete better in those categories in the Emmys. And I think if there was a sense that they would compete better as dramas,

[00:32:29] you know, both Max and FX would be trying to get them moved into the drama category. But so, you know, that's a feature of our modern programming where we just have these shows that kind of straddle lines. So ultimately the question is,

[00:32:45] will people's memory of The Bear from almost a year ago combined with the fact that the show will be airing new episodes as people are voting, will that overcome the fact that Hacks just aired a really good season of programming? That's the question.

[00:33:08] If there's any category where Hacks might beat The Bear, it probably is best comedy actress because you've got Gene Smart going up against a younger talent. But I still think this can be a tough road for that show. It feels like Jamie Lee Curtis is a slam dunk.

[00:33:27] She's in like a guest supporting actress category? Yeah, she would be a guest performer. Thing that's weird about the Emmys is that you can think some things are slam dunk and then they just surprise you because I don't think the Emmy Academy, particularly in the acting, you know,

[00:33:45] actors vote for actors. And I think amongst the acting wing, they don't necessarily like giving awards, giving the awards that they're expected to give. So we'll see if that actually happens. It should happen. She did an amazing job, but there's, you know,

[00:34:04] it's been a long, that's the other thing, when a performance like that happened almost a year ago, it's a lot of time for people to change their mind about it. Recency bias. But entirely possible. You know, I mean, it's hard for me to imagine

[00:34:22] a guest role that would be comparable. But the other guest roles that might be comparable were also on that show. So, I would be surprised she didn't win, but you just never know. We have a couple of shows in this category or could be in this category

[00:34:42] if you think they're nominated, they're actually on their last season, like Curb Your Enthusiasm, which ended after what is it 12 seasons, Reservation Dogs won't be coming back. How do you think their chances are? Well, I mean, it's interesting. Both of those shows have had limited success

[00:35:00] with the Gods of Emmy. You know, they both had strong final seasons, which is in their favor, but there's also a lot of competition in their categories, which I think is gonna make it difficult. Is it possible? I think it's highly possible that Curb

[00:35:22] will be nominated as best comedy series. Will Larry David get nominated as best comedy actor? That's the big question. I'm trying to look through, yeah. I mean, yeah, he's on my list. Again, you know, this is a category that interestingly is...

[00:35:48] I don't know that there's a lot of clear front runners. You've got Only Murders in the Building, you've got The Bear, you've got Reservation Dogs, you've got Curb Your Enthusiasm. You know, Abbott Elementary is an interesting one because the lead is female.

[00:36:06] So, you know, it's dominated the female categories, but the categories for men supporting actor and actor, you know, it's been less... It's taken up less real estate. And that's kind of opened up things for other shows that might have more men in the cast.

[00:36:27] So it'll be interesting to see. I don't know, I'm bad at predicting this stuff, but I do think that Curb will be nominated. I think it's highly likely that Larry David will be nominated. I'm less confident about Reservation Dogs. It should be nominated.

[00:36:46] Should be nominated for Best Comedy. I don't know that it will be. And unfortunately, like the actors in the cast, they're amazing, but they don't have the level of visibility in Hollywood that many of the people in these other shows have.

[00:37:07] And so, you know, it's one of those things where people may love the show, but they know Larry David, can the average Emmy voter name one cast member from Reservation Dogs? I would be surprised. So that's the thing that's working against them.

[00:37:26] I'd be surprised if somebody from the show got nominated, but they should be nominated, and I hope they do get nominated. Yeah, they should be coming back. Yeah, they should be coming back. And it's funny, you know, I was at the Peabody Awards in Los Angeles

[00:37:41] just a few days ago, and wound up talking with Tyco Watiti, who is an executive producer on the show. And he was at a table with Sterling Harjo, who's the show runner and co-creator, the two of them created the show together.

[00:37:55] And Kyle Reese was there from True Detective, it was like an indigenous table almost. Other cast members from Reservation Dogs were there. And, you know, I mean, it was interesting. You know, was it ending because they ran out of story

[00:38:15] or was it ending because they had a sense that FX might not support another season and they decided to go out on their own terms? I think there's a little bit of both things going on. But they're taking a victory lap now,

[00:38:29] they got a Peabody where they were awarded, they were handed the award not long ago. And so they go into the Emmy voting with that. Man, it would be nice to see them do well, but I'm kind of skeptical about their chances. Well, we've talked about those,

[00:38:47] the major categories at this early stage. Is there any other category that you think is interesting at the moment? I was just thinking that in terms of best variety, the fact that Jon Stewart is actually back after many years and that puts them in a really good position,

[00:39:04] I'm supposing that it's always the same people that are nominated in this category, but I'm thinking The Daily Show has a special position this time around. Well, Emmy has always, Emmy has always struggled with this category and it's so bizarre. Like, Emmy struggled first

[00:39:21] when there were a lot of talk shows. They had a hard time figuring out how to configure the category so that everybody could kind of compete. And now that the genre has constricted, they're having even more problems because it's the same people you see all the time.

[00:39:41] And the Academy has decided how it feels about them. It is tough to justify not handing Jon Oliver an award because that show does so many things at a high level. It's not just funny. It is talking about important issues and educating people in a way

[00:40:03] that other shows just can't match. Not even Seth Meyers, who gets the closest in terms of the closer-look segments he does. But Jon Oliver, every episode is educating people about important subjects and he's making things like, how the world produces corn. Interesting and entertaining. Yeah.

[00:40:25] And people will watch a 20 minute segment. Something you didn't know you needed, but did. Exactly. And so it's very, and occasionally they might even break news. They find out things, they point out things that even journalists might not have noticed about some of these situations.

[00:40:41] So it's very hard not to hand him an award whenever he's nominated. So the question is always like, where does that show end up going? And right now, it's in a category where it's competing against Saturday Night Live, which doesn't seem to make a lot of sense

[00:40:56] because the shows are very different. And so how do you take a sketch, a live sketch comedy show and put it up against a show where a guy's coming on and delivering a comedy monologue about a serious subject, educational subject every week?

[00:41:12] It doesn't make sense that they're in the same categories. And then, you've got this other category where all the other shows are doing what they've always been doing for years. And the Daily Show comes along and Jon Stewart is back. When he was hosting the Daily Show,

[00:41:32] he was the unstoppable, they were the unstoppable juggernaut. They always won their category. And now he's back. Now I don't really understand why The Daily Show would be in a category with... Well, I guess the reason why The Daily Show is in the category with Jimmy Kimmel Live

[00:41:51] and Seth Meyers and those other shows is because there is a segment at the end of the show where they interview people. And so if they didn't have that interview segment at the end of the show, then they would be in the same category

[00:42:02] with Last Week Tonight and Saturday Night Live. But the bulk of their show is exactly what Jon Oliver's doing. Same, yeah. And if they're gonna win an Emmy or get nominated for an Emmy, that's what they're getting nominated for. They're not getting nominated for interviews with famous people.

[00:42:18] So it's just so weird and stupid. I mean, you know, but because the new thing is that Jon arrived and his arrival has been greeted, reviewed very well. People really liked it. The show's ratings have rebounded. It seems to have rescued the program at least for a while.

[00:42:38] And the program is much more relevant than it has been for a while. It seems likely that they'll get nominated. Now whether or not they'll actually win, who knows? But it's highly possible because again, what they're doing is most of the show

[00:42:56] is joking about these very serious topics and educating people about things and going out into the world. Jordan Klepper going to Trump rallies and going to the Trump trial and doing remotes where they go out and talk to people. Whereas again, Seth Meyers and Jimmy Kimmel

[00:43:18] and those guys, they're all mostly in their studios. Yeah, and they're gonna be doing live shows, I understand. Well, Daily Show and Colbert. The Daily Show is doing two different kinds of live shows. Jon Stewart is gonna host live shows on the day of both presidential debates.

[00:43:37] And then they're also going to the political conventions. They're going to the Democratic National Convention and the Republican National Convention for a week. We still don't know what Jon Stewart's role is gonna be in those. And then Colbert is doing live shows

[00:43:55] the week of each of the conventions too. He's gonna stay in New York for the Republican Convention but he's going to Chicago where the Democrats are meeting when they do their thing. He won't be on the site, he'll be at a different site

[00:44:11] but he'll be in the town and I assume they'll be doing remotes and things and having people on from the convention. So we're gonna get a lot of sort of live late night dissection of the debates and the conventions.

[00:44:29] The question, so that'll be stuff for the Emmy people to consider next year. But this time what they're looking at now I think that Jon Stewart's return is probably the biggest, the most impactful thing to happen in that space.

[00:44:45] And so expect that to make a bit of noise. And then people also think that SNL kind of had a lackluster season but no show does what that show does. So it's very hard to, I mean, that's why it was weird to have Jon Oliver

[00:45:03] and SNL in the same category because they're both powerhouses that tend to win when they're nominated. And this time I think Jon Oliver beat SNL and it's likely to happen again. Finally, anything else you're looking towards ahead of the July 17th nomination announcement that you're curious about?

[00:45:24] Well, one of the things I always track is diversity in nominations, particularly in acting. And Abbott Elementary and the Bear have pretty much saved the Academy in recent years. A great deal of diversity in the acting categories have come from these shows.

[00:45:50] So it'll be interesting to see what happens now that we're in a new era. Shogun also helped a lot, again, assuming that the Academy nominates the people who should be nominated from that show. And it'll be interesting to see how deep they go.

[00:46:14] Will they go deep into the supporting categories beyond the performers who have gotten the most heat? There's three performers on the show who I think have gotten the most heat, I mentioned them already. Will they nominate the British actor who plays the English guy?

[00:46:36] Will they nominate deeper into the cast? If this was a English language production, I would have no doubt that the nominations would go deeper. But given that it's a Japanese language production and all of these actors, almost all of these actors,

[00:46:59] the Emmy Academy is probably not as familiar with, that might limit their chances. Oh, the whole group of supporting actresses on this show is just phenomenal. So I really hope that they will open up and dig deeper, as you say, because they're great.

[00:47:17] Yeah, it really would be nice. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see because like I said, there's a lot of shows in this grab bag, from The Crown to Mr. and Mrs. Smith, to the morning show, the morning show, there's a lot of potential female performers

[00:47:39] who could be nominated from there who have a higher profile. We'll see, thank you so much, Eric again. And I look forward to talking to, hopefully, maybe sometime after the nominations come out from- Yeah, we'll have much more information once we see what the Emmy Academy

[00:47:55] has actually been watching. Great, thank you so much. Sounds good, take it easy. Hello and welcome to Novel Conversations, a podcast about the world's greatest stories. I'm your host, Frank Lovallo, and for each episode of Novel Conversations I talk to two readers about one book.

[00:48:16] And together we summarize the story for you. We introduce you to the characters, we tell you what happens to them, and we read from the book along the way. So if you love hearing a good story, you're in the right place. Our ninth season is coming this fall.

[00:48:30] Tune in to hear from some of the all-time great authors, Charles Dickens, Jules Verne, F. Scott Fitzgerald, and more. Subscribe to Novel Conversations wherever you listen to podcasts.