382: Till Death Do Us Part! The many movie-marriages of 2023. With Ryan McQuade (AwardsWatch.com)

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[00:00:55] Shopify.com slash income. This is Pop Culture Confidential,

[00:01:02] and I'm Christina Yearling-Bero. Taylor and Burton, in whose afraid of Virginia Wolf, Hoffman and Streep,

[00:01:19] in Kramer versus Kramer, Rollins and Folk in a woman under the influence, Johansson and Driver in Marge story,

[00:01:26] Bergmans seems from a marriage. Marriage in cinema when done well is a most fascinating theme.

[00:01:33] And this year seems exceptional, incredibly interesting marriages in so many films, The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.

[00:01:40] With me to dissect the state of matrimony in cinema 2023 is Executive Editor at awardswatch.com and married maim Ryan McQuaid.

[00:01:50] Welcome. Thank you so much for joining me.

[00:01:53] That's the big qualifier. I think he couldn't bring a single person on to talk about marriage, which is self-requisite.

[00:01:58] And we had to be married and know what you're talking about. Thank you so much for having me back on. Now I actually have a voice.

[00:02:06] But it's still not all the way there, but it's getting there. It's getting there. So I'm so happy you're better and so glad you're with me again.

[00:02:16] Last time we did one of these type of shows where we looked at a theme, we were looking at a Spielberg,

[00:02:23] and there we were talking mostly about divorces.

[00:02:26] And his themes about that. I don't know if this one's going to be more positive or more depressing actually.

[00:02:33] Well, I will say that episode one of the greatest episodes I've ever done podcasting.

[00:02:39] And really it was also right before we saw Faberman's, I believe, a red aright when we saw it.

[00:02:45] And a movie that completely profoundly moved me and yeah, I mean, I think at this topic,

[00:02:52] the minute you put it up online, I was like, oh that would be a really great idea for podcast.

[00:02:59] And then I think we just realized yeah, this is not a wheelhouse.

[00:03:06] Do you have like an all-time marriage portrayed in cinema?

[00:03:10] Oh my god, that's didn't prepare to think about that. No, that's, I mean, you were reading off so many wonderful marriages.

[00:03:20] You know, I would marriage is such a difficult thing because I come from a family of divorce.

[00:03:27] So when we were talking about divorce, that was easier for us.

[00:03:32] That was very easier for us. I think that marriage was, I mean, like when we talked about catch me if you can,

[00:03:39] I even think like boyhood because that's a marriage that's already kind of established themselves as

[00:03:46] divorce and it's two sections of the life. And that was very much how I was like,

[00:03:53] I go with my dad and I would have my separate experiences and I would go with my mom and I was five

[00:03:59] when they divorce so I don't really know who have very many positive memories of their

[00:04:06] of their marriage because I was just so young. Remember certain things about obviously the divorce.

[00:04:11] But nothing that like, you know, crippled my, you know, my sort of thoughts and feelings about my parents.

[00:04:21] But in terms of like in cinema, I mean, it's always, you know, it that I mean you mentioned,

[00:04:30] I think the one that is really maybe close to me, in terms of a relationship, I guess with my own marriage

[00:04:38] is a movie and this might sound twisted but Phantom Thread because how and why that movie is so precious to me is because

[00:04:47] I think that movie perfectly illustrates power dynamics within a marriage. And especially if someone is completely creative.

[00:04:55] I mean, you're both in your marriage is, you know, you're two creatives and I'm creative. But then there's the outside

[00:05:02] perspective which is my wife who is not in this field and she has to settle down and settle me down,

[00:05:10] right? Or, you know, and then there's the way you take care of, you know, the way almost take care of him

[00:05:17] in the film like literally with the mushrooms. There it's literally taking the metaphor of, I will

[00:05:23] just be a little bit more strangling you to death to the ultimate degree with mushrooms. So I mean they also feed off each other and then

[00:05:31] the way almost very protective of Reynolds work with the Barbara Rose wedding. That's very much how

[00:05:38] making us with me. She's very, she's very protective of not just me around people but definitely when it comes to my work.

[00:05:47] She's not met certain people that, you know, she knows aren't or maybe as good as us or whatever but she's very much like, I don't like that.

[00:05:55] They're not as good as you are. And there's that self satisfaction that smile but I also think of like the final shot of Fadem Threver,

[00:06:04] you know, she's got him on his head on her knee and she's still full and control because she is in control.

[00:06:12] That's what I love about the movie she is in control and make it very much in control of this household. So I may, I may think I am but there's no way in hell in actual reality.

[00:06:24] That I am so that's probably the best answer I got for you. Well, I have one up on you because I'm, I'm divorced and remarried.

[00:06:31] So I have that experience in a very good marriage now, but also with creators that's you're saying so I'm sure I can identify more with the types of movies you're talking about with two creatives.

[00:06:42] And that's sort of fine. But I was thinking about this and the one, the most beautiful marriage strangely enough that I always cry every single time is the first 15 minutes of up because I think that's the marriage that you wanted to have.

[00:06:57] Right.

[00:06:58] I think that's like that's the marriage of our grandparents and yeah, right. It's the perfect kind of marriage, right?

[00:07:04] And even though, I mean, of course that's sad because they wanted to have children and could have but still the whole sort of beauty of that marriage.

[00:07:11] When something bad happens and they can't have children, they continued following their dreams and then he keeps those dreams alive after she's passed.

[00:07:18] That's such a beautiful little marriage. But I'm so, no, my God. Now, you know, I was funny recently. I was at the middleberg from festival and they were doing a tribute to Michael G. Keynote because that's his music at the beginning.

[00:07:31] Oh, yes.

[00:07:32] And they play and what they did for up was the first like 10 minutes and they showed it. They showed the video and I was just like, okay, we're not doing this. It's a ton of time in the morning.

[00:07:43] Everyone, yes, everybody was in tears. It's so universal. The love there.

[00:07:49] Let's get into this year's crop of marriages in film. I just wanted to say that we're going to dive into these partnerships heavily. So there may be spoilers.

[00:08:00] I've identified some films this year and there are a lot than the really good ones that are really about some interesting marriages, some terrible marriages, some good ones. But we have my stroke.

[00:08:12] We have anatomy of a fall made December past lives documentary American symphony, killers of the flower moon zone of interest.

[00:08:21] Ferrari has interesting marriage and relationships pricilla, open hymer. I mean, these are far cry from your standard sitcom marriages.

[00:08:28] These are something different. But anything I missed off the bat before we get started here?

[00:08:34] No, I mean, no, I think that's a big enough list to start off with.

[00:08:41] What do you think this is? Was there a reason for this theme right now or is it just coincidence?

[00:08:48] I don't think it's a coincidence. I think artists are, I think artists are in their houses writing and they're with their significant others.

[00:08:57] And you know, we talk about artists having these these personal projects over the last couple of years.

[00:09:03] But marriage playing such a dominant subject matter or force inside these projects makes total sense for a lot of directors that we haven't seen.

[00:09:13] Make movies and also marriages are complex and very different and everyone has a different marriage. It's a different contract.

[00:09:25] Then in anyone else, like your marriage is different to mine. So those are two stories. Those are two experiences. Those are two people.

[00:09:33] Those people are different. It makes for great drama, great comedy, great sadness in between.

[00:09:41] You know, I think that.

[00:09:44] Yeah, I think all the movies you mentioned are pretty are pretty close there too. I mean like even something like are you there got to be Margaret that's like a perfect example of like marriage dynamics.

[00:09:56] But also then a chance to bring in religion or bring in like you brought up zone of interest to bring up or or open highman those are atrocities or pass lives is to bring up.

[00:10:09] You know, pass lives is to bring up the past or to bring up unresolved feelings, Priscilla, you know a power dynamic.

[00:10:16] You know, made December definitely power dynamics.

[00:10:21] My stroke complete power dynamic. You know what I mean? So I think that they're absolutely fascinating and then of course like you're mentioning an enemy of fall.

[00:10:30] I mean, it's just like a lot of things that you're talking about. But then that's kind of what the two artists conflict as well. So it's all different right.

[00:10:37] It's I mean if you think I don't know what your thoughts are. Do you feel like there's a reason for is a common. I mean this is obviously I think a giant common thread but but one very unexpected.

[00:10:49] I completely agree with you that this it seems like something that's come out of this year where people are writing very, very personally. I recently did a show about that another big theme this year is about writers and you can tell that people are specifically during COVID and after have been very much writing about themselves and even though Bradley Cooper obviously isn't.

[00:11:14] And I'm sure that these are things that you can bring in your own experiences, your own relationships going through that there's something very personal about this.

[00:11:23] But let's talk about because you already identified with with your first examples there when we're talking about ourselves the sort of creative partnership category that I think is quite strong here both in with Bradley Cooper and Felicia Montolegro in the Lenny Bernstein movie my stroke.

[00:11:41] As well as something like anatomy of fall of the fall where you have two authors really competing almost in the jealousy between them and one that's really successful and one that obviously isn't.

[00:11:54] The sort of being married to a genius what do you see in these films.

[00:11:58] Yeah, I mean with anatomy you and I were at tell you right watching that together and I think you and I were there was that that courtroom scene the transcript that is read to the courtroom but we see happen in real life the argument that happens between.

[00:12:16] You know the husband and yeah, the fight that is like one of the scenes of the year right and.

[00:12:23] I think you and I at one point about halfway through that conversation looked at each other in our mouths around the floor because we were like.

[00:12:30] We were sitting there like this is shockingly shockingly familiar and I think anyone that's ever been creative knows how.

[00:12:40] Really there were daggers in those moments sort of the blaming of regret when the regret is internalized within.

[00:12:51] The one self to then blame the partner for that and it's like no no no no no no you.

[00:12:57] And the sacrifices I have been doing have you not been seeing that.

[00:13:01] And then but then also the the the poison of turning the child into.

[00:13:09] The conversation and using time with your children as an as an excuse to not be able to fulfill your selfish.

[00:13:18] Artistic fantasies and then use the hard work that got them all there which is.

[00:13:24] Sandra Hoolrich's character's work to get there there's obviously the idea of plagiarism.

[00:13:32] And and lifting this story off of him and and it it's so fascinating because I've seen the movie twice and I go back to that scene.

[00:13:43] And I'm so on her side really I am and and I and I have not wavered at all me neither but so many people are I don't I totally relate with her because.

[00:13:55] Because she acted she did the work she wasn't she didn't hesitate you know this as as an artist and as a writer and as a person.

[00:14:04] There's no hesitation in what you're doing if you have a plan if you have an idea you need to do it and he had massive doubts massive.

[00:14:15] And she was by her own account you have to believe I guess if you believe that she said to him.

[00:14:24] And what she even says to him that she tried and told him that it was good.

[00:14:28] Hold them it was good you see it from her perspective there that it's not a lie in the courtroom and the you know the pencil twisting mustache.

[00:14:38] Prosecutor can't can't spinner words or whatever you literally see her say I told you this was good enough to go.

[00:14:46] Flo on ahead and explore and you specifically use specifically didn't do anything with it so what am I supposed to do not sit there and and see this great idea this one idea from it.

[00:15:01] And yeah and both sit there and suffer and have these arguments over and over again because as you know Christina you have to be able to fill the itch as an artist.

[00:15:12] And so I think that that scene is so fascinating and it feels like she was giving him the room if he wanted to but he didn't take it and he and this is a movie where you have that added thing of the guilt of something that's happened to a child.

[00:15:27] I mean this is thing we've seen this in different marriage movies before and how this really crushes a marriage if a child is died or got sick and he kind of is using his guilt towards the child to not write and then spewing it on her.

[00:15:44] Yeah, I mean there's just an awful thing to do to a parent from my perspective almost felt like to that times the camera was focused like a little bit upright.

[00:15:52] Like as if like Daniel was under a couch or something and watching this unfold.

[00:15:56] This is like this is a memory but it's not really.

[00:16:01] A memory because it's the first he's hearing it but it almost is if like you're peeking in to see.

[00:16:07] This conversation that starts how is it always start Christina always starts at dinner and always starts at like the end of the day all starts with a glass of wine and all starts with.

[00:16:19] Plus entries and it all starts completely arbitrary it's not like someone walks in this is we have to discuss what's going on with our child I mean it's.

[00:16:27] But it's like past the piece you passed them wrong but also to the idea of bringing up and this is I think the same thing that happens in my store there's a scene in my store.

[00:16:36] At during Thanksgiving bringing up.

[00:16:39] Also the fight of the year yes, two fights these two fights but there they are something that happens regularly in the marriage where yes.

[00:16:50] You you you forgive or you forget or you move on but when you're fighting with your spouse you've been keeping a tally.

[00:17:00] You've been keeping a list of the things that bothered you the list of the things that I made you upset and when it is you're almost waiting to play that card in the minute it gets to this point.

[00:17:13] Well and it's not a great way of fighting it should never be a great way to fighting but it is these couples bring every.

[00:17:22] And it's not just a fight of this conversation.

[00:17:26] It's a whole thing and that's what I love about it because it didn't.

[00:17:36] In anatomy it is to get to the root of what all this is it's not just artistic regret it's parental responsibility it's what.

[00:17:45] He feels he's done to Daniel in the burden that he has caused his son and then.

[00:17:52] And then.

[00:17:53] Where's why are we living here and we hear why are we doing this why doesn't it why is he you know he could be in school you chose to teach him but then turning it on Sandra and essentially saying like you know you.

[00:18:06] You write and you pawn our child off to me and she's like the hell I do and you're also saying that my time with him is not valuable you could go right to help for that.

[00:18:16] And so I don't I've never seen her as the villain that some people you know just the fact that she has to listen to that 50 cent thing and he has to rebuild that house for years and years I'd be gone.

[00:18:28] I know that but I mean she completely has I would say the moral high ground but she definitely has.

[00:18:36] The factual high ground when it comes to it in terms of she's he's arguing out of emotion she's arguing out of reality and when you are arguing out of reality.

[00:18:51] Then you are the the same person in the argument when you're pointing out little every little thing that makes sense and this person is not listening to that specific point but they're moving on to the next one.

[00:19:05] The person that's actually making sense is the one that is the one that is winning the fight and that's and that's been a case where I've been on both sides of that so it's not like I.

[00:19:15] I've been caught in the in the same trap as well. I don't know about you but I've been quite many times on both sides and it's interesting to be on both sides of those arguments.

[00:19:24] And I want to get back to the sort of narcissistic genius my stroke relationship there, but I first I want to mention regarding this past lives there's a relationship between two authors as well or two playwrights.

[00:19:38] But what's so beautiful about that relationship is the husband there really understands that if she can't explore this past relationship that she has been starting to explore their marriage won't work either her writing will work and that's what is a quite amazing with that marriage.

[00:19:58] Yeah and as for Christina past lives, you know I think back to when I talked to Celine song about about the film and how the real villain of that movie is time in the the body of water in between these two countries.

[00:20:14] And how she's leaving the love of her adolescence behind and she's finding the love that is essentially her husband in her future.

[00:20:25] And I think that that's beautiful and I agree with you, she does have to explore this she has to I wouldn't say get it out of her system but she she definitely needs to see what is there because it'll be something that could linger and lead to regret and lead to arguments and whatnot.

[00:20:41] And I think they nip it in the bud right before he gets to that point, but a lot of like the third act is for John McGrow is perspective for me and that.

[00:20:51] There's that scene where he's in the bed and they're not arguing but he's holding her and he's like basically telling her.

[00:21:00] It's not a it I think it is a played it is a played to tell her I don't want you to forget about me I love you I don't want you to leave me and she is so insecure because that seems so exotic and you chose me this little you know, but I can't.

[00:21:20] I can't compete with that and he's a fish out of water in that moment and he knows her he does know he knows her but still there's there's the difference between and that's just the the difference between someone then is outside of Asian culture and knowing a lot of friends that have had to kind of.

[00:21:44] I had to settle in in in planned or marriages inside the room culture because a lot of outsiders you know why black Latino couples that then you know that one of the spouses is what those and the other is a vision to send.

[00:21:59] It's fair you know even still of today we with all we're such an amount and we're no it's that there's still.

[00:22:06] Rued in tradition and so there's always going to be for that side of things there's going to be anxiety fear that of this strong bond and connection that's still there.

[00:22:18] 20 something years later could replace me and then the minute he walks into the apartment right before they walk she's like holy shit this guy is like a sculpture.

[00:22:27] This guy is this guy is like you know he's yeah he's a little like you know man you know like a little backpack and everything and it's you know tucked in shirt and everything but it's like.

[00:22:37] I'm not going to be able to compete with this like this it like I almost laughed in that moment because it's like he's like well shit I have like all I can worry about is.

[00:22:49] That's I trust her and she trusts me but I love that he does that.

[00:22:53] Yeah another maybe would have gone in a completely different direction and he realizes that either we're going to fight about this for the rest of but okay Ryan do you think the end of the movie when she walks back on their block.

[00:23:05] And it ends do you think that he he can sort of let that insecurity go.

[00:23:11] I think he can because because she walks back to him and and her heart is broken because she knows it's over.

[00:23:19] But also that identification with her past not that she's fallen madly and love with him.

[00:23:25] No no no no connection with her roots the door closed and so when the door closed.

[00:23:31] And so hard is his shattered and the only one that's been able to pick it up and put it back together will be the real person that.

[00:23:40] Looser because she didn't run after him right she didn't go back into the apartment say I got to go get after him and it's a big Hollywood romantic comedy ending right.

[00:23:54] She she she goes back to him because she's like.

[00:23:59] Maybe it's almost like a little bit too of like should I even have.

[00:24:03] Done this should I have should I have locked try to unlock this door because it's only going to leave me to pain and he's there.

[00:24:11] To console or and basically say at the end without saying anything that.

[00:24:16] I'm here will be fine you'll be stronger than this going forward and then I think I just think about song.

[00:24:26] As the writer and director and that this happened to her more or less so.

[00:24:33] To be that vulnerable as a writer to be able to put yes in.

[00:24:37] You know talking with her she's very open about speaking about.

[00:24:43] These two relationships but she's going complete peace and we know this she's that complete peace because she's told she's with her husband they're very happy together.

[00:24:53] So she ultimately then we can judge that based off the character.

[00:24:58] That she will be happy but she had to explore this and he will be secure in knowing.

[00:25:05] Then there was never a doubt that he was leaving I don't think that there was ever a doubt that she was leaving but.

[00:25:10] But there was doubt in him and those doubts are gone the minute she's in his arms.

[00:25:15] You know what I mean and so I think it's beautiful I think it's beautiful.

[00:25:20] Let's go back to talk about the the genius narcissistic relationship.

[00:25:25] I mean we've seen this type of marriage a lot this is often sort of the the artist the Johnny Cash.

[00:25:31] We have a few here we have that in my stroke course which is a fascinating marriage.

[00:25:38] Priscilla as well of unequal relationship with someone who's really invested in their art.

[00:25:44] Talk about that trope.

[00:25:46] Oh man I think I'll speak to Priscilla real quick I feel like we're just dodging my stroke but there will be a big master talk.

[00:25:55] That's such a big.

[00:25:57] A relationship but Priscilla I think is such an interesting that whole movie is framed from the idea of.

[00:26:05] Her in this relationship with Elvis it's based off the you know.

[00:26:09] She's a little press release book.

[00:26:12] Like it's like me and Elvis I believe herself would like that.

[00:26:15] Elvis and me and.

[00:26:19] What I found so interesting about Sophia Copa's movie is the idea of being trapped.

[00:26:26] Within a marriage and being trapped.

[00:26:29] And realizing that.

[00:26:31] The dream of a marriage may not always be what you wanted to be.

[00:26:35] And I think that she's trapped on this this like Air Force pay at this naval base or whatever you know this military base.

[00:26:43] And with her family and she's from the outside world you know she's from America but they're being trapped because of the war and everything going up.

[00:26:50] And she gets this taste to the outside world which is Elvis.

[00:26:54] And you know they start forming a bond in a relationship and it's.

[00:26:58] It's not sexual but it is that of a connection.

[00:27:02] And though I think Sophia Copa it shows that it's a lot of that connection is probably one side it.

[00:27:11] You know it's it's definitely from the from the vantage point of her wanting this not necessarily Elvis knowing what he wants me's super star at this point the biggest superstar on the planet.

[00:27:25] And so she trades her her familiar.

[00:27:32] Cage for a golden cage.

[00:27:35] When she's trapped in and and grace limit.

[00:27:40] And I find all the moments in the movie of her just walk around grace and you know her having the dog outside and.

[00:27:49] And I'm telling her don't be around here because you know the photographers or all this different stuff really is is that of.

[00:27:57] The lonely housewife.

[00:27:59] And control and control of you know environment of a man.

[00:28:04] Of that era of that time to the ultimate degree because she's.

[00:28:09] She feels like a prisoner she has him feel like a wife.

[00:28:12] And you know then there's all the rumors of course of him cheating and these are things that are not covered.

[00:28:19] In Bos Lermons film and does not paint I think the prettiest picture of Elvis because he was not the greatest person in the world he was a very flawed man.

[00:28:30] And I say that as someone that is you know I'm not like the biggest Elvis fan but.

[00:28:34] He's fascinating because he's like a lot of artists of that time when they were thrust into the world and manipulated by men who only saw money.

[00:28:44] You know these are like you know like the Beatles or Michael Jackson or you know.

[00:28:50] You know the the supreme or anyone you know even to a certain extent like you know modern pop stars like you know there are there are a ton.

[00:28:58] That are always put in the spot like too soon and manipulated for capitalistic purposes.

[00:29:06] And he was definitely one of those but he was also a man of extreme fits and outrage since he lost his mom.

[00:29:13] He was trying to find a replacement for that and I think you tried that with Priscilla but it also still felt like that was property.

[00:29:20] And then he could control her and proliferation at the end is sort of it's a little quick I think in the film but but again and I understand it that that epiphany would happen so quickly.

[00:29:35] But I think also of the scene where he's trying to shine and just pick out looks and clothes and he tells her no no no no this is what you're going to wear.

[00:29:44] More eyeshadow makeup this is how you're going to look and it's it's the controlling dynamic of what the artist wants there.

[00:29:54] And she's not strong enough or old enough yet to push back.

[00:29:59] Hi there I'm Heather Drego and I'm Sarah Saunders we host the podcast that's a hard no about saying no and setting boundaries so you can be combat true and empowered you that this world.

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[00:30:58] Was that so interesting the difference between Priscilla and Felicia in my stroke.

[00:31:04] Priscilla was so young she had all these illusions of what the marriage would be and and true.

[00:31:09] Well, it feels like when Felicia met Leonard Bernstein she went into that relationship with her eyes a bit more open.

[00:31:18] Yes, no I mean there's a lot of these movies from amadias where you have this torture genius narcissist to while he is composing his music is treating his.

[00:31:28] Life like shit I mean we've seen that's like a genre in its own I found Mustro and Priscilla to be really interesting new takes on those type of things.

[00:31:40] Yeah, I mean my stroke which is incredible.

[00:31:46] I've seen the movie four times and I think that I keep going back to is the relationship dynamic.

[00:31:55] Excuse me.

[00:31:58] The relationship dynamic between Felicia and and and in the movie starts with you know him playing the piano and saying I miss it terribly, you know and and.

[00:32:12] That's good.

[00:32:13] Yeah, no if I have my voice I got to really do it I really can like figure out how to do it but.

[00:32:21] The movie is really not just about their relationship dynamics I think of the scene when he's introducing her to the map armor character and map armor at that time is in a relationship with Leonard Bernstein he's a musician that's.

[00:32:39] Having a secret gay you know affair with you know with him and at this time in that they're completely their lovers living literally in Carnegie Hall together.

[00:32:53] And all their friends know about it but the public doesn't because he's not a big deal until he becomes on a burnstein and then he meets Felicia at a party and then they kind of.

[00:33:03] And then they become connected as they say when they have this incredible partnership.

[00:33:08] Yeah, even though the situation is difficult very much so but bomber looks at her in that moment when they meet and it's not in it's taken as like always off guard that he's brought here but it really is the moment of oh.

[00:33:25] You're the replacement.

[00:33:27] Oh you're the one that now has his attention and I and it almost feels like I've been in your shoes before and you my dear will be in my shoes very soon maybe it's not now maybe it's later.

[00:33:41] It's definitely years later but she does she does do that and it's our own its its tour on it missions is my own arrogance to believe that she could cage this.

[00:33:53] These feelings of his I mean really there's there's a sequence of the film when he is married and he's fully with her and everything he's sort of kind of given up the wild.

[00:34:05] I've styled that he had before he's given up chasing man and everything and he kind of tells her that he's losing the ability to you know.

[00:34:18] I have the urge to make music as he goes well you know if you don't have summer and you then you you know then you can't make music and so if that is a part of you you make the compromise that is a movie and a marriage of compromises.

[00:34:32] But how many compromises can you make before you structure the damage something that you firmly love.

[00:34:40] But then also within all those damages and that's the other thing that if I'm beautiful is when she says it's like you know when she goes to the illegal theater.

[00:34:48] She's going there after she's told them that.

[00:34:51] I know that's his big moment but it's also not just that it's.

[00:34:56] She says that in the fight that he has no love in his heart and he's a monster essentially.

[00:35:04] And when she sees him perform at the height of his powers, she says there is no hate in your heart she knows her husband she knows.

[00:35:17] That he is who he is and she loves him and he loves her and when he hugs her.

[00:35:24] He missed her terribly as well there's so much regret but an understanding of we are made for each other and then that leads to the doctor scene.

[00:35:35] Yeah, when I think is it's just devastating because they're both of their lives break at that moment when they find out that she has cancer and I mean he's he's almost just as emotionally upset.

[00:35:49] She is and it's it's quite beautiful.

[00:35:53] It is it's really a beautiful and even though it's a marriage completely beyond most of our regular people's comprehension there is so many elements in this one as well.

[00:36:04] We were talking about different fights before that we recognize things in but here there are many things in terms of compromise that one can understand.

[00:36:13] I'm going to do a weird segue here from Priscilla to May December because talking about grooming and very young people who are sort of manipulated into a relationship.

[00:36:25] Let's talk about the marriage at the center of May December.

[00:36:29] Yeah, a movie that takes inspiration from the 90s Mary Kay Laterna the real story of the teacher who was in a relationship with essentially raped her 13 year old student.

[00:36:43] But then they had children and she went to jail and got out and they got married and had many children and many years together talk about how Todd Haynes portrays that marriage here.

[00:36:57] Well, I mean he portrays it as is normal as possible in the beginning that a community is basically has a lie in a secret.

[00:37:05] I mean when Natalie Portman shows up she's the she's the store and the drink right because the drinks find let's start up and let's see what the drink turns into at that point.

[00:37:19] Because like when she's at the barbecue and one of their friends walk up and saying you know, you need to kind of like be kind of them they're like pillars of this community and that that that that.

[00:37:31] And as she's investigating you realize that like yeah and you know she manipulated Joe or hundred tentacles into Joe when he was 13 and they had this.

[00:37:44] This sexual relationship that turned into her.

[00:37:49] Tabloid Gracie's tabloid thing played by Julian Moore that led to her going to Joe but also caring Joe's baby their first child and not only what I think is.

[00:38:02] Crazy about that story being very true and tied to you know to the turn okay is.

[00:38:07] The idea of then she comes out they're still together and they have two more children and that's where the story really is about as about those two children graduating high school.

[00:38:17] In the empty nest of it all and what what will happen when it's just.

[00:38:23] Two of them not had that for their entire relationship they've always had a child and.

[00:38:29] I mean Joe and hers relationship is one of walking on egg shells.

[00:38:35] It is one of say the wrong thing she treats him like a child yes, but he also he's also like I cannot say or do anything.

[00:38:44] Because like the cake the cake thing is exactly why he hears a cry about this cake something into one the order.

[00:38:52] And he says one word or something right at a line there and she just stops crying and she turns like a snake on his throat it almost feels like like what did you just say and you know we we you know I mean not you but we.

[00:39:10] And then it changes back into it and how many times is probably Joe and to go sit down there eat the same piece of damn cake.

[00:39:19] To calm her down and look at her and be like it's really good really good see the cake we'll just eat it's not that bad you know but then in.

[00:39:28] As Elizabeth Natalie poorments characters unraveling Joe.

[00:39:34] He finally has those questions and it leads to again another massive confrontation that I think is the.

[00:39:42] The influx of just the impact of the movie the big moment that we all been leaning up to which is this idea of.

[00:39:49] He wants to talk about it they never have talked about it in the sort of 20 plus years about this relationship in Christina for me.

[00:39:59] I was broken watching Milton's performance as Joe here try to articulate because he's never been allowed you're right is never been allowed to articulate his feelings he still a child inside the dog body and she's not allowed him to have a moment of just pure.

[00:40:19] Expression right Charles Milton said who plays Joe in an interview recently something about the how he realized how afraid.

[00:40:29] The real Joe must have been feeling that the right thing to do must be to now we have a child for me to stay here.

[00:40:38] I'm not really thinking out on his adolescent session incredible scene where he smokes his first joint ever with his son and you realize he's done nothing of this and the guilty feels for being what 13 year old years older than his kids.

[00:40:52] And just realizing that he's putting his kids out into the world now also with this history and everyone asking these questions and and seeing him slowly slowly unravel is just so brilliantly done.

[00:41:04] I mean it's one of my favorite movies of the year but it's I find it chilling torturous for Joe.

[00:41:12] Oh yeah.

[00:41:13] To come to realize what he has missed what he's been doing and what actually happened to him he's like coming out of a trauma the coma is like a fog is lifting as to what he's actually been manipulated too.

[00:41:29] Yeah I mean you talk about the joint scene when he's telling his son I don't know if I'm creating a good memory for you or a bad memory for you essentially and something that you know and his son weirdly enough in that moment.

[00:41:46] Which is crazy like when you watch the film really the kids are so aware of their situation they need you know older generation so or they're like a younger generation but they're they feel older in the information that they probably know.

[00:42:03] They probably gone through multiple things of bullying or definitely don't take her last name definitely take probably a different last name or whatever you know I mean probably take his last name.

[00:42:16] And if and if so will change their names is probably in the future to separate from me.

[00:42:22] They get shit delivered to their in the mail frequently.

[00:42:26] But the kids feel you would seem like at the beginning they seem like they have normal lives and everything except for the kids from the first marriage.

[00:42:35] Yes, yeah the kids in the first marriage I think that this is all crazy and nuts and they have no relationship with these kids whatsoever but.

[00:42:43] That moment is really like a moment where it's like oh my god this kid is actually.

[00:42:49] Parenting his father because they're almost in the same boat in terms of if not the his child is passed them in terms of experiences and I mean that there's the scene with us where just with his father.

[00:43:02] And there's these uncomfortable silences because they've yet to still have that conversation.

[00:43:07] They've not talked about it and not talked about it so they're like oh and denest okay cool good for you or never talked about this or I'm not going to you know go any further than that and then it leads to I think one of the lines of the year.

[00:43:23] If we are in love as we say we are.

[00:43:26] Which is what Joe is saying like if we're telling everyone that we love each other why can we not have a 100% honest conversation and graces ass just takes it to 11 leaves the room and they we don't see them again together.

[00:43:44] The rest of the film we can probably assume that there's a compromise and unfortunately Joe back Joe probably goes back right into the trance.

[00:43:55] That Gracie has created because she's super manipulative she's super controlling and she's calculated.

[00:44:01] There's no way that she's not based off the final interaction that she has with poor men she's definitely in control of all the narratives.

[00:44:09] But I mean, she also is a deflector of blame as well. She goes who is the boss who was the boss basically like you asked for this and which is taking literally from an interview.

[00:44:22] Exactly.

[00:44:23] I'll turn know how to and it's bone chilling it's a bone chilling like reveal and then Joe is essentially manipulated by the Natalie Portman character as well.

[00:44:36] She is she does do that he is very much manipulated by her and manipulated by.

[00:44:43] Again, I know you know essentially I mean they're the same age but he is he's still a young man.

[00:44:52] Like she knows he has no other experiences.

[00:44:56] No she knows that she's not stupid but she's she's having a sexual relationship with him for the part for the you know all this stuff and he.

[00:45:07] Once again is so vulnerable and naive and just as like I thought you actually wanted to be with me and she's like this is what grownups do.

[00:45:18] And that's another and it's like Sammy Berges screen plays just filled with.

[00:45:23] Hilarious lines but then scorchers and that is that is one where every time I see him with an audience you hear at least one person go, oh yeah.

[00:45:34] And it's and it's but it's the summation of Joe where it's like he's not an adult and he's being manipulated by pretty much everything around him.

[00:45:44] New our old and it's yeah it's completely heartbreaking.

[00:45:49] Let's talk about Ernst and Molly.

[00:45:52] And killers of the flower moon. What do you make of that relationship?

[00:45:56] I mean that's the big controversy I think of the film right is the Ernest and Molly Berkart storyline because that's what the film was resented around this this marriage.

[00:46:08] And I know people have been like you know.

[00:46:12] The depiction of like is a given up time for.

[00:46:15] For Lily to have her moments as it gives does it give too much of a does it give sympathy to Leo's character I don't think so I think that.

[00:46:25] It shows that for me at least this is how I interpreted maybe you interpreted different it's Christina.

[00:46:31] It showed that Ernest did love her but how manipulative he was by his uncle.

[00:46:38] You cannot erase the fact that this marriage was built to destroy the O sage at the forefront of it all and so yes I do think he loved his wife.

[00:46:50] And I do think she loved him I think they loved each other purely out of love and also had an necessity.

[00:46:57] But I think that it is the most of all these it's right up there with me December as the most despicable of all marriages it is.

[00:47:08] He is making love with her and having children and kissing her and all this different stuff and then allowing her sisters and mother to die poisoning her.

[00:47:19] I mean the whole poisoning sequence and him being so.

[00:47:26] So blind and never stand up too cowardly he's a coward that's ultimately what he is he is an easily manipulated coward.

[00:47:38] And Molly falls victim to that but then also she has her own moments like I'm not putting up with this when she goes to Washington when she's there at the trial or she's listening to him.

[00:47:52] You know say that he's going to flip and join back with with with King with De Niro and I think at that point she realizes.

[00:48:02] This is all just been bullshit.

[00:48:05] He's a whole been kind of lies and that moment where she's she's with him finally and she asks him about what was what were you giving me what were in those jars.

[00:48:17] And he's been trying to tell the truth they still can't tell the truth to her it's just he can't he can't do it it's it's heartbreaking but it's it's also because you want them because it feels like they had a connection but it's also like you know essentially also it's.

[00:48:35] He's a dangerous man he's a dangerous man because he's because he's a puppet on a string for a uncle and and I find it symbolic of the whole.

[00:48:45] I think so too.

[00:48:46] The whole history of what of what America has done to the I mean it's the silence the manipulation the murder the the cowardness is a symbol of everything I find in the center of that marriage.

[00:48:58] Yeah, I think it's a slide a hand right really it's like he loves money so the idea of a slide a hand right where.

[00:49:07] We're over here.

[00:49:09] I'm love you you know we have a family we have a house we have kids but really what's going on is I'm taking all your money.

[00:49:16] I'm killing literally blowing up a house to kill your sister and the brother and law who's also getting away because you think about that it's like earnest.

[00:49:29] We see my own earnest when we see that there's actual love there.

[00:49:32] Whether or not it's complicated love there's no question about it's complicated love when we see Jason is below you had a great interview with here on your show.

[00:49:42] We see his character's perspective there is no love there it's all a show you know what I mean and it goes it calls him to question then to the audience which is worse.

[00:49:52] What earnest is doing or what is most characters doing and I think both are terrible.

[00:49:57] I think the conclusion is whatever these white guys are doing is terrible there's a separate character that's wife dies.

[00:50:05] He inherits two children and he basically goes and says it better to adopt them or kill.

[00:50:11] Yeah, like if I adopt him and they somehow end up dead do I get the money in the guy's like sounds like you're just saying you're going to murder them in a year adopt it's like well not if I can't get the money which is.

[00:50:23] Sick it's absolutely sick but that's that's what the holes film in the whole tragedy is yeah the history about it it's all it's all about.

[00:50:38] Whatever it takes to eradicate wipe them out and steal everything that they can it's it's.

[00:50:44] Because you're saying that this is the center of a little bit of discussion around the movie and I find it completely the opposite because I think this is the.

[00:50:53] You know he's saying no I think people people don't like it because it then allows Leo to have a bigger part and it's not focused enough on quote unquote the O sage but I think that this is.

[00:51:05] For me, I think the FBI angle which is what the original David Granal is all about I think that that would have been a terrible terrible.

[00:51:14] Dake to just make this a thriller I think that.

[00:51:19] Dake to just make it more of a procedural rather than making it about a character study or a marriage study between these two people in using that marriage the branch off the metaphor.

[00:51:30] Of everything because as all these atrocities are happening to the the Kyle family it's also happening to everybody else that's why they keep moving that's why they keep keeps happening and you know and there's no justice being done meanwhile.

[00:51:46] Genero is the one orchestrating this with the caprio as is kind of flunky to.

[00:51:55] Be the smile in front of the camera but the devil behind it and I think that it's you know at a certain point by the end.

[00:52:06] You know there is no real resolution because.

[00:52:10] The powerful always stay powerful and they find a way to manipulate and slither into the cracks that they want to get into.

[00:52:18] And it's a travesty it's a tragedy that's why you know people are like well it's the movie so long or it shows too much of these two guys it's like they're the perpetrators of why.

[00:52:31] This tragedy exists you need to show what they did and if you don't understand that.

[00:52:39] Then you're only getting also one side now you know I know that the you know there's been some criticisms over.

[00:52:47] You know is Lily a lead or or supporting and does she get enough time I think she does because the actions of what they do.

[00:52:57] Completely render her speechless unconscious and through what we see in her tremendous performance is the effects that this evil has.

[00:53:10] Generating.

[00:53:11] Everyone in our community and I just think yeah I think Scorsese nailed it.

[00:53:18] This is horrible to say but the married couple in the zone of interest might be the most unified and partnership of all these marriages we have been talking about and these are Nazis.

[00:53:38] Talk about that.

[00:53:39] Well they are they have a.

[00:53:42] Common goal at some's terrible yeah I mean they are on the most understanding playing field of anyone that we've talked about here they understand.

[00:53:53] His job.

[00:53:55] She understands which she wants where she wants to be.

[00:53:59] For him for her for their children and they are completely comfortable.

[00:54:04] Living in that pristine environment.

[00:54:09] On the other side of a wall where on the other side.

[00:54:15] The biggest atrocity.

[00:54:17] Maybe in human history is occurring.

[00:54:20] Holocaust Auschwitz.

[00:54:23] And there are so many scenes you and I watched this until you're at and we had conversations there's so many scenes of just.

[00:54:31] That scene by the lake thing encapsulates their marriage.

[00:54:37] Obviously like how they there's a sleeping scene at the end of the night you know like early on in the film where they're laughing and giggling.

[00:54:46] Nothing else is going on outside that's the black smoke is is going on but that scene where he is about to get.

[00:54:53] Yeah it's when I talked about them entirely exactly and teller which is one of the most normal fights that very many couples have is I want to take this transfer.

[00:55:03] It's a great job opportunity for me and I have to move the family from and the wife says.

[00:55:08] We've built the life here the kids are happy I don't want to go I mean it's like the most ridiculously normal.

[00:55:16] Discussion that a couple has in the midst of the most horrible historical events we've ever had.

[00:55:26] Yeah I mean she's saying I don't want to leave out of it.

[00:55:29] I'm the queen of Auschwitz.

[00:55:31] And I have my garden and it's even simpler than the queen of outages like I have I've just planted the garden we have this little pool the kids are up it's just so mundane.

[00:55:42] Yeah she loves though the power that she has there's no question about she loves the service she loves the the fur coat.

[00:55:52] You know I mean she loves she loves being able to right she loves the primness of everything I mean it's why the mother character comes into full effect.

[00:56:02] And she sees that this is not for her even though she says like this is your paradise what you all is wanted that's the other thing she said this is what we've always fought for root off is essentially to have this place to be in this place and you want to give that up because they what you've done too good at job now no we're going to stay.

[00:56:23] You're going to go and just do that stuff essentially you're going to go on the road we'll stay at home and we'll see you when you get back and.

[00:56:31] Yeah it he what does he do he's just like you know what you're right we'll just do it that way.

[00:56:35] And but then there's the conversation that she has with him at the end of the film or he's he's like worried about something or he's you know he's he's having like weird dreams or whatever and then she's like.

[00:56:49] All right that's good and everything but just you know get over it move on and come home when you can and she you know she's not interested in the fluff there's no fluff it's a part it's a.

[00:57:01] It's almost like professional partnership the two of them have it's not even a marriage at that point it's like.

[00:57:08] You know get home to your throne will figure it out there otherwise quit being a baby and move on like she's she's super strong.

[00:57:17] In the same way that the killers of the far moon which is also of course, I'm going to be about and murder but it's the same way that the director the screen writing is centered very much on the marriage on these marriages here as a larger metaphor for what's actually going on and the.

[00:57:37] The consensus of silence and evil is inside in different ways of these marriages.

[00:57:46] Yeah, no for sure I mean I just think they're so that all these marriages but especially this one you're right this one so for zone is so different because.

[00:57:59] They're talking in the norm normality.

[00:58:04] In the in the world of a tragedy and I know that audiences will go see it very, very soon it's such a.

[00:58:14] Such a beautiful piece of work really is but I just I think that.

[00:58:21] The complexity in that marriage is is one that I've thought about a lot because you know it takes a lot to be that evil.

[00:58:32] For the common not to be that evil but to have an someone by a side almost not even almost definitely in an abler.

[00:58:40] Yeah totally to push push him forward I mean that that to me is.

[00:58:46] Yeah it's it says a lot glazer glazers always interested in relationships and how they sort of form through various.

[00:58:56] Different avenues and this is a relationship that I think is one of the most complicated but it's the most complex in terms of what we talked about which is.

[00:59:09] How how you live a life when all you can hear screams and pain and think that that's just okay it's it's yeah.

[00:59:21] Yeah and how it doesn't take a toll on your marriage are you okay with it.

[00:59:26] Lastly I want to discuss what I know is your favorite movie of the year.

[00:59:32] Yes openheimer and the relationships and marriage there because I think we may.

[00:59:37] The the depictions of the women in.

[00:59:42] Up and I know are not my favorite we've talked a little about that before but.

[00:59:47] I talked to me about you see that Nolan wanted to do particularly with the marriage between.

[00:59:55] Killian and Emily Blunt.

[00:59:57] Well I've seen this movie way too many times as you know Christina.

[01:00:02] And yes it is my favorite film of the year but I think also.

[01:00:08] You have to remember this one is actually.

[01:00:12] More subjective than objective.

[01:00:15] Because every time we see these women they're through the the written and perspective of.

[01:00:23] J. Roderott Oppenheimer you want to say that that's a cop out.

[01:00:27] I find it fascinating because it's like well if the rest of the film in color in technical or is through.

[01:00:35] Only operandheimer's perspective will then of course he's going to see.

[01:00:40] His relationships as disposable.

[01:00:44] He really does I mean there's a moment when he sees Jean and he likes surprises her and it's a snapshot we don't know everything about what's going on in her life and all this different other stuff.

[01:00:56] But he like literally just like.

[01:00:58] Here's about them breaking the the the Adam or whatever and.

[01:01:03] And splitting of the Adam and he just like a band insert leaves her like she is not as important as his work.

[01:01:11] And.

[01:01:12] Yet there's still a lot of internal regret that Robert has he does love her but she sort of he feels that she's rejecting him because we know of Jean tab like we know if.

[01:01:23] He does do any research that she was bisexual and then she was a communist.

[01:01:27] And that she was surveying right and brilliant she was brilliant now there's no there's no mark against that but if you are writing it through the subjective prism.

[01:01:38] Then one would say that as brilliant as Jean tablock or kitty up and hi my R wouldn't j Robert Oppenheimer thinks still that he is more smart and sophisticated and.

[01:01:49] And just just a bigger brain and be a narcissist when it's done well I agree and with that that's not my issue is more which maybe is not pertinent to this discussion but that like.

[01:02:04] One of the most the most famous lines of open high.

[01:02:09] Yes, there is is said midfuck basically.

[01:02:13] Which feels slightly I don't know.

[01:02:18] I like the scene on a hole.

[01:02:24] Just just the way in which.

[01:02:28] These two minds are going back and forth with one another again, it's also like that scene if you want to take it like.

[01:02:36] And I've become deaf destroyer of worlds.

[01:02:39] Um.

[01:02:40] Distorted memories of the past and everything also to it's something that's and like it's literally.

[01:02:45] Uh, he's reading this all or we're seeing this all to a statement that he's reading and whatnot so it could he could not have his.

[01:02:53] Facts all correctly as well too but it's definitely around that time maybe you know combining stories or whatnot we do that all the time.

[01:03:01] I'm not justifying it and I think yeah the way it's done is like it's a little it's the one still or as a person that loves this movie.

[01:03:09] It's like all right that's a little that's a little much you know but.

[01:03:13] And I can get that but that doesn't derail the film and it's totality you know for me.

[01:03:17] And I have to say that the marriage the Emily there are character is is interesting in the sense that you really get to see a woman who.

[01:03:27] I think is so, so common where we're being a housewife rearing children also a brilliant woman and having to get come into a life where she's essentially just a housewife is not something she would ever be able to do.

[01:03:43] There I think you get to see what's actually happening to her how.

[01:03:48] Most of the time Robert isn't seeing that and understanding why and then when she gets her really big monologue you realize that she has she knows more than he has wanted to.

[01:04:01] Discover in his own life well she she's the in that third act she's the only one that can see through.

[01:04:09] Strasse's bullshit and essentially she's like why won't you fight.

[01:04:15] You know and I know it's done like a couple times or whatever and so people don't like it but it's she's trying to be for Robert what she was when he was making the bomb.

[01:04:26] You know what I mean which was I'm trying to be here for you and be your confident to be you know because he says there's two scenes that make then everything in that third act worked for me.

[01:04:38] And I've seen multiple times I can bring this up.

[01:04:42] It's I've had to live when she's when he gets on the project they write out into the country or like into the Los Alamos area and she says, you know Lawrence isn't going to get this done you are.

[01:04:55] So figure it out and understand the totality of your responsibility essentially and then when Jean spoiler dies.

[01:05:05] She's like you know you don't get to commit the sin and have all of us feel sorry for you.

[01:05:10] There's a lot of people that depend on you here so get up and finish the job.

[01:05:15] And she's always the one there that's telling him exactly the right thing and telling him point blank.

[01:05:25] We're not doing the martyrdom the pity party cut it out and you're the most important man or at least you said you are to me so go prove it.

[01:05:37] And then by the end of it, she's just tired of him playing the victim or trying to have all this taken out on him the final scene that they have together is like what they did to him.

[01:05:50] She's and he goes just we'll see I don't know I can't control any of what the future is all I could control was what was put on the record and move forward and they walk back into the house.

[01:06:00] But yes her bitterness towards being saffed at the end not checking his hand her understanding of it she's she is the.

[01:06:11] You know when when when the lawyer making player basically says you know can we trust her she's been drinking a lot that it is like.

[01:06:19] You need to understand can you and I have been through hell fire together.

[01:06:23] Show him over herself he trusts her he does ultimately trust her I mean he's he's pissed her off when he read the when he put the tat lock stuff in the record and had to do that.

[01:06:36] And bring it all up again, but I think it I think it's much more complex than people give it credit for and I think it's also in a way too since it is the subjective it's the husband in many there that his wife.

[01:06:51] Did have more of an influence on him in his decision making at the height and the lowest part of his life in this moment and so yeah I think I think that I know that people get.

[01:07:04] I think the more I want to see what I want to see on a crap to how the women and people in particular is written.

[01:07:09] I think blunt the more more I've watched it the more nuance there is in that writing.

[01:07:14] I do you agree with yeah I.

[01:07:17] I understand I think that there's a scene or two that could have been added that could have added some more.

[01:07:22] I think that there's a couple things even in their.

[01:07:28] You know, post like their naked scene or whatever there's there's some.

[01:07:33] The dialogue there is is really good and then her death is that of the mystery that we all know about it but it's a couple scenes before.

[01:07:41] Or I think that like yeah we would I would have like to be able to see that relationship just blossom a little bit more but yeah I think.

[01:07:48] Chitty and in Robert's relationship is is is is we're particularly sensitive we know historically and as well we we hear it in the movies so many times what an important important person.

[01:08:03] Tatlock was for him and mostly we're seeing a sexual relationship but it feels like what they're saying is that it was even bigger than that.

[01:08:16] Yeah no I mean it.

[01:08:19] She gene was his first love essentially and she was brilliant and by the course she was a communist and of course she was.

[01:08:32] She wasn't somebody and she also pushed him away she was bisexual.

[01:08:37] You know she would she would go back to Robert.

[01:08:40] And for comfort.

[01:08:42] You know I mean if you read things about her she would she go back and forth she was non-committal and then of course he knocks up Emily Bun in a relationship which is.

[01:08:52] What we know about Robert Oppenheimer which is sort of like a you know is a genius and you know,

[01:08:58] I'm a little bit more about what I mean because I mean literally sleeping with another one of the wives who's like one of the heads of the committee that picked everyone for the project you know and.

[01:09:10] And there's like a kind of a throw away I wouldn't say a joke but like a statement about that in the third act of the film but.

[01:09:19] But yeah no I think that.

[01:09:22] Again that relationship could have been explored more but that but.

[01:09:27] But there is also the ramifications of what that relationship does on their marriage that makes it.

[01:09:34] Worth it enough.

[01:09:35] Yeah and it's not well.

[01:09:37] In the trial I mean not just to the marriage but to the history.

[01:09:41] I will say I know that people think that that like you know it's so weird to have that.

[01:09:47] Oh that's the visual of him naked and her on on him in blunt sort of perspective of how that would be of course that's how I think a wife or anyone would would feel in that moment.

[01:10:00] It's very rare for no one to use nudity of nudity at all sexual.

[01:10:06] So I think when he does do it it's there's a purpose behind it.

[01:10:11] And this is of the director that thinks that everything you know in his movies is very purposeful.

[01:10:17] I don't think that that that sex scene that they initially have you're right the the last bit of it is makes sense but the rest of it.

[01:10:27] And it's very much because we only see sex with gene.

[01:10:31] We don't see any of it with kitty and almost feels as if like that's the sexual.

[01:10:37] Relationship and disposable relationship and this is the personal professional one with kitty if that makes sense like there's a difference between the two and we see that.

[01:10:46] The members of the children.

[01:10:48] Yes, crying.

[01:10:50] The other way the bomb.

[01:10:51] Yes, but we could see the love affair and all that too for Robert or we could see.

[01:10:58] But we see the one with gene I think because it means a lot to me names the Trinity test after her.

[01:11:04] Yeah, so you know, so he doesn't name it after kitty so it's kind of interesting.

[01:11:12] But now we've talked through a bunch of these relationships.

[01:11:14] Does this year's crop of marriages give you hope to the state of matrior.

[01:11:21] I think it makes me very secure and happy aware.

[01:11:27] I'm at with mine, but I think a lot of them lead to good conversations with your spouse.

[01:11:35] I mean, I remember back to when we did see Phantom Thread and over the years when I've rewatched it and I'm going to rewatch it again very soon because it's a movie I watch all the time.

[01:11:47] And scraping of the toast or when the tea's brought in.

[01:11:53] It's little things like that than you're like, oh shit, okay, this relationship is a little bit closer home than they went on.

[01:12:01] But I don't think I think a lot of the relationships that we talked about there's a form of toxicity behind it and definitely there's some regret.

[01:12:12] People are scared to speak.

[01:12:16] And so I would hope, though that maybe relationships are a little bit more like past lives, which is one that is that of open conversation and deep understanding of the other person that is that you're married to your partner.

[01:12:33] And that's very much case for me. I know that that's very much the case for you as well with Peter and so.

[01:12:40] So yeah, I mean like I think it's great to show all sides of an argument and all sides of a topic and I think this year is you know when you brought up again the subject I didn't really had put it all together.

[01:12:54] But then I started looking at the films at my top like 25 of the year and I was like, God damn a lot of them do deal with marriage it's wild. And so.

[01:13:05] So yeah, no.

[01:13:07] I'd like to add what I think is interesting. I think that in particular, my may get blowback on saying this, but I think that there's a lot of focus even in the depictions of the bad marriages on the women and the wives here.

[01:13:22] There was an era not long ago where the wife was basically at home answering phone calls like you know the astronauts wife who sort of oh no there's something horrible happening I'm here at home and and she wasn't much other than the token wife of the great man.

[01:13:41] And here more films actually have quite a well rounded view of both sides of this of the marriages and that I couldn't say I mean some of the ones the real classics that I mentioned in the beginning you know Bergman was a master at both sides and and movies like you know who's afraid of Virginia wolf and cassivetes to mention some who were always good at that.

[01:14:09] I felt like something happened along the way where that wasn't as common and that feels very strong this year we're both perspectives are there.

[01:14:18] Yeah, I mean not that it is part of this topic but I mean even also one of the biggest films of the year is written by a married couple in Barbie.

[01:14:28] So like some marriages in is all over this year and I think that it's big again I think it speaks to.

[01:14:38] We were at home for so long with the significant others and these projects maybe that they take forever or not they involve partnership you know they involve the idea of.

[01:14:56] Probably bouncing ideas like Sammy Birch her screen play in the story is with a writer that would become her husband and metamus is Christopher Nolan's.

[01:15:07] Producer but it's also his wife you know so they're always on the the top of mind you know I mean but then those those stories I think just lent to it because.

[01:15:18] So much complexity in a marriage and everything is not the same and so yeah I'm just glad that we're kind of back into it I would like.

[01:15:29] You know the topic even could be explored more it is a when you were reading off those lists of movies before I was like well one I was like I want to go watch all those movies.

[01:15:39] But I think it's one that.

[01:15:42] It's it's so juicy enough because you learn so much about a person through their relationships you know what I mean thank you so much for joining us absolutely thank you so much for inviting me.

[01:15:53] It's always a throw to talk with your Christina tell everyone where they can read and hear all your stuff.

[01:15:59] Yeah so you can find me on Twitter and screen later box right in with quite 77 just go to awardswatch.com that's where all my reviews interviews.

[01:16:09] The two podcasts was the awards watch podcast and the director watch podcast that we're doing right now covering the films of Paul Tom say Anderson.

[01:16:16] You can find all that we'll have new director watch series in the new year we'll have to have Christina on something coming up and then yeah just go and go and read all this stuff over there you know Eric you know so being you know myself you know Tyler.

[01:16:33] We we love coming on the show and we and we love being a pop part of Christina's life whenever she decides to have a song it's always a throw.

[01:16:43] Same way it's a lovely marriage yes.

[01:16:46] Thank you so much Ryan thank you Christina.

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