Inbox Intruders: Not Your Aunty Against Unwanted Messages

[00:00:00] Hello everyone, this is Srinali Shrov and this is Kiran Manrall and we are Not Your Aunty.

[00:00:10] Hello everybody welcome back to this episode of Not Your Aunty, this is Srinali Kula Shrov

[00:00:17] and I'm Kiran Manrall and today what are we going to chat about Srinali?

[00:00:21] Well a topic today is called May God grant me the confidence of the middle-aged Indian man.

[00:00:28] So Kiran and I were talking about this topic recently based on the number of un-welcome messages that we receive across social media

[00:00:39] and I'm sure we are not exceptions to this every woman will relate with this.

[00:00:43] The idea came about because I think in India particularly and if you belong to our generation,

[00:00:49] being a woman means fending off all sorts of un-welcome male attention throughout your life.

[00:00:57] And I'm sure Kiran will concur with me on this that this is really part of everyday living in India

[00:01:03] and this particularly happens by a certain brand of the Indian man which is the slightly coolest middle-aged Indian man

[00:01:10] who's still living by the social conditioning of the time of the era when he grew up.

[00:01:16] Absolutely absolutely Srinali I think I see this most starkly in as you said social media not so much offline now

[00:01:24] because I think once you cross the certain age they become a little more reserved

[00:01:28] or at least I don't notice it anymore but online it's like an epidemic. Take LinkedIn for instance.

[00:01:34] You would think it's a professional platform and you would think that's a place where people want to show themselves professionally

[00:01:40] and they want to put up their best foot, put their best foot forward.

[00:01:44] But you accept a connection request and bam five seconds later they do not even pause to breathe.

[00:01:50] They will send you a DM asking for your contact number let us connect over WhatsApp

[00:01:56] and let us be friends I am not on LinkedIn to make friends darling.

[00:02:00] I'm on LinkedIn to make personal contacts what makes you think that?

[00:02:04] I'm on LinkedIn to make professional contacts and if I wanted to be on WhatsApp with random people

[00:02:10] I wouldn't be on LinkedIn right?

[00:02:12] I think accepting somebody's request on LinkedIn is not the same as consent.

[00:02:17] Absolutely I think these are basic things that you know we need to keep drilling into the entitled Indian man repeatedly.

[00:02:24] Why do you think this happens though you know now we are living in a very different the entire socialization

[00:02:29] the consciousness of people by now in today's decade.

[00:02:33] Should have changed you and I even our thought patterns and everything we have evolved and adapted to the times.

[00:02:40] Why is it that this certain section of men and I'll tell you something this happens across class, across socio-economic strata, across age groups

[00:02:51] I've had elderly women tell me that after they lost their spouses they've had unwelcome attention from their carpenter half their age neighbor.

[00:03:02] And I'm talking about greyhead women who are sorry's okay.

[00:03:06] So I'm saying that this expectation that sex is owed to them isn't the very fabric of the whole concept of the entitlement of men.

[00:03:20] Perhaps you could call it the Raja beta syndrome that they never really grew out of.

[00:03:24] So you know that Raja beta syndrome which sort of began when they were kids and from everything from getting the best food at the table to being allowed to study

[00:03:33] at their wedding so endless sisters were working in the house and helping with the chores and being a loud flirt around and have girlfriends while the girls were policed by the family

[00:03:43] I think that sort of continues and it's they never really grow out of it.

[00:03:47] They're still the Raja beta and the entitled everything because of course they have a penis.

[00:03:52] And also the notion the gender stereotype that girls are shy and the know is a yes and I know this is a stale conversation

[00:04:01] because everybody really talked about this during the whole meet-to-meat movement but it is relevant to bring it up now because the know is yes or she's shy

[00:04:10] is particularly I think made manifest when you do not show interest in a man even today whether it's offline or online and you're right.

[00:04:19] I think middle age men are not doing this offline because they are afraid of their wives and their kids now but you know the anonymity on social media where they can hide behind names

[00:04:30] or they can't you don't have to meet them or run into them at a party.

[00:04:33] I must bring up the fact that there is somebody who's really smart and sassy and this gentleman used to on Twitter flirt with somebody I know wholeheartedly she is a single mom

[00:04:45] and one day she met him and I know this gentleman too and one day she met him at a restaurant in Delhi

[00:04:53] and he was being really shady and not being very chatty with her and avoiding her.

[00:04:58] And then she later discovered that this was a split level restaurant and he was sitting upstairs with his wife and three kids

[00:05:06] and it's only when she saw I watched him exit did she realize that he was married, she didn't know that on Twitter

[00:05:13] and attractive man very well spoken and he was married and he was sitting on her and then of course now you're not online so you have to behave yourself because people are watching you.

[00:05:26] So this double life that some men tend to lead but at least here he was only trying I wouldn't say that he was forcing his company on her

[00:05:35] but I think what happens with people who approach women and when you don't show interest in giving sharing a number with them

[00:05:43] and they persist with liking or pictures and commenting on it especially if you have open public accounts like you have

[00:05:49] or I have then it begins to bother you because some of them are really not even educated, completely unlettered people

[00:05:56] and some of the properly people old enough to be your dads and it's disrespectful, it's annoying and it makes you feel like meat.

[00:06:04] But I think that's what the thought process is if she's putting a picture out there she's expecting to be looked at as meat.

[00:06:11] So a lot of the thought processes that should not be it's not that they are looking at us with graceful appreciation of our beauty

[00:06:19] the pictures are meat for them. For me my solution is very simple I just blocked them.

[00:06:24] If they're annoying me on the timeline and my DMs are anyway nobody who doesn't I don't follow can message me.

[00:06:30] I think that's the only solution I lose off a lot of people trying to contact me for genuine requests because of that

[00:06:37] but that's a compromise that one makes.

[00:06:41] Having said that I see a lot of hesitation on my path because of this to be just polite with people.

[00:06:51] I refuse to engage with people who are just being polite because I don't know how it could be misconstrued

[00:06:58] and this veriness worries me because it's just human nature to be polite to everybody to you know respond to something with a thank you.

[00:07:05] If somebody says looking good you say a thank you but I see a message which comes from somebody I don't know a stranger

[00:07:11] who's saying looking nice coaches whatever I don't even want to hit a like or a thank you.

[00:07:15] Yeah respond me the thank you because you don't know what that person may interpret it as.

[00:07:19] No no no it's absolutely true and I actually like being polite.

[00:07:23] I don't live with this assumption that every man talking to me is actually interested in me.

[00:07:29] And increasingly so I realize that I'm compulsively polite so I don't like or respond to oh gorgeous or whatever

[00:07:38] but if I make a comment on social media and somebody responds and says that's a good point you made or like to article or something.

[00:07:44] I've been to this place or I agree something some idea that they're discussing with me.

[00:07:49] I engage in that discussion but my talking to them somehow makes them feel that I'm interested in them

[00:07:55] and then therefore this circles back to the point I made earlier that girls are shy

[00:08:01] and I think this is also male toxicity that men are expected to pursue

[00:08:06] and not take a lack of interest for not being attractive to me or I'm not available I'm married

[00:08:14] but the fact that you have to pursue and she's too shy to show it.

[00:08:19] And that's where they've been fed on. It's from centuries I mean you've been fed on Haseed to Fasi

[00:08:25] and all that rubbish that went on what was that from the time of Raj Kapoor's time I think

[00:08:32] and to now Ranjana popular culture has just been feeding that into the male psyche

[00:08:37] that you have to pursue you have to pursue regardless of whether she likes it or not

[00:08:41] and then that goes to the very dark space of stockings as it attacks.

[00:08:48] Murders which have happened killings which have stabbing which have happened

[00:08:52] when somebody has rejected a person's love interest so that's an entire spectrum

[00:08:57] of not being able to take rejection because we circle back to that again entitlement

[00:09:03] how they're they not want me when I want them and I have declared in my interest in them

[00:09:08] and I think this entitlement is something that I don't see this current generation happening.

[00:09:17] At least the urban I don't know I don't speak for the semi urban and the rural areas

[00:09:22] but in the urban spaces I don't see the young boys having this kind of a narrative.

[00:09:26] You're quite right.

[00:09:27] I think hopefully this should percolate to tier two and tier three cities as well

[00:09:32] but I think advertising and cinema is at the core of how far this message goes.

[00:09:38] I also feel that this whole idea of manliness which comes from scoring with chicks

[00:09:44] as they call it quote unquote chicks or the idea that if you get laid more

[00:09:49] you are more manly is again at the heart of this because that's how a man is not taking no for an answer

[00:09:56] that's how a man expects you to oblige him when he pursues you

[00:10:00] and also interestingly the word friend zone.

[00:10:04] Think about where it comes from.

[00:10:07] It comes from the expectation that we were talking and you were going to be

[00:10:11] romantically interested in me but you are treating me only as a friend so I've been friendzoned.

[00:10:16] So friendzoned is more like an exception because the rule is that you have to like me back.

[00:10:22] And there's also so much toxic masculinity as you just pointed out and the amount of

[00:10:27] ribbing that they get if they express an interest in a girl and if the girl doesn't like them back

[00:10:31] the peer pressure that okay you fall in flat now.

[00:10:34] So I think that is also a factor that leads to this kind of an entitlement

[00:10:40] that come what may if I've told the world that I like this girl she has to like me back

[00:10:44] otherwise I'm going to lose face.

[00:10:46] But don't you think that happens with women also I mean these days I think younger girls

[00:10:50] are feeling quite confident and quite empowered to go out and tell a man that they fancy him.

[00:10:57] Oh yes so yes my son tells me some stories right so if the guy turns them down

[00:11:02] I think that's a matter of just personal pride maybe.

[00:11:05] Maybe it isn't necessarily always a question of toxic masculinity but yes I think I've rarely heard a word

[00:11:15] a girl used the word I've been friend zoned because she's not laboring under the assumption

[00:11:22] that this good looking man or attractive when I'm talking to is definitely falling for me.

[00:11:26] They're getting do you remember that famous Alexan ad from the 90s when mobile phones had just come out?

[00:11:31] Of course the one black coffee add with this gentleman sitting opposite the table

[00:11:35] to this very attractive woman and the legend and the legend and she was having a nice little conversation

[00:11:42] on a small handset hidden under her hair and this poor chap thought walks up to her thinking

[00:11:49] she's calling him for dinner yeah and then she says one black coffee please

[00:11:53] and you're the shattering of glass in the background a shattering of his all his armons

[00:11:57] I'd go and try it yeah.

[00:12:00] It was very cleverly done.

[00:12:02] And I wonder what would a woman have done in that circumstance if you were sitting opposite a man

[00:12:07] an attractive man and you thought he's asking you to dinner and saying hello hello

[00:12:11] so this is how it starts she says hello he says me she says so how about dinner tonight

[00:12:16] so now I'm thinking of a man was saying that from across the table I think today

[00:12:21] I mean if I was if when I was younger if something like that happened I just run away

[00:12:26] thinking creep is trying to score with me I think girls younger girls today would be different

[00:12:30] they probably go and talk to him and go on a date with him if he's attractive and presentable

[00:12:34] but yeah you and I would bolt from there except if it's G Changuk that's a Korean okay

[00:12:40] yeah that is your religion that I've not yet been indoctrinated in so that's the only person

[00:12:46] I would not bolt from if he said if I thought he was asking me to dinner

[00:12:51] but I think the rest of us were really just you know run the minute mile yeah

[00:12:56] but the thing is I think advertising needs to make these conversations go mainstream

[00:13:02] and in a funny way not in a preachy and lecturey way there's so much that can be done

[00:13:06] because young executives today think very differently from uncles

[00:13:10] you know that's why I love the words down uncle because even though these men are more or less

[00:13:16] around our age but in their mind their uncles and it's interesting

[00:13:20] I think women are open to changing their mind far more often than men of a certain

[00:13:27] gender are and which brings me to that bit where you know some of the men today

[00:13:33] are speaking up for gender equality with a big halo on the head with a big halo on the head

[00:13:37] and that's the whole thing that debunking a gender inequality doesn't make you a generous male

[00:13:43] it just makes you fair and while we are grateful that some of you are talking about it

[00:13:48] please do not use it to score points

[00:13:53] and we can see right through that always say right through that so don't fool yourself

[00:13:58] it's not gonna work babe

[00:14:00] so you know Kiran not long ago I heard about these people I know from my social circle

[00:14:06] one teenage kid who was dating another teenager from the same group

[00:14:12] the mother of the boy called the mother of the girl and said that your daughter is spoiling my son

[00:14:19] spoiling my son

[00:14:21] she is very wild because they chat at like 11 and 12 at night

[00:14:25] that's all kids after the lockdown by the way

[00:14:27] and she said that you know she's sort of teaching him all the wrong things

[00:14:33] do you've given her too much liberty these are innocent kids

[00:14:37] okay they're probably just saying oh I like you I like you because this is what happens at such a young age

[00:14:41] okay this is not a girl who's actually you know behaving older than a year

[00:14:46] this is exactly a teenager today and the mother the boy's mother has placed the end

[00:14:51] she has lutshamed the girl

[00:14:53] and almost implied that to the mother that your daughter is she dresses inappropriately

[00:14:59] she behaves inappropriately and all sorts of things

[00:15:01] this is exactly the rajabeta syndrome that I was talking about

[00:15:05] and if the mother thinks her son is being spoiled by the girl she should just

[00:15:09] put him in the deep freeze he wants to spoil

[00:15:12] it's depression out exactly right but see this is women are as equal participants

[00:15:18] in misogyny and patriarchy

[00:15:21] these are patterns that are being played out that what they have heard in their youth

[00:15:25] and they have carried that guilt of you know not being of being very careful

[00:15:31] not to be the girl who is the one responsible for spoiling a boy

[00:15:36] that sort of plays out over and over again

[00:15:38] and they haven't got out of the patterns

[00:15:40] think it takes two to tango it takes two people to be in a relationship

[00:15:43] absolutely an a girl

[00:15:45] and is your boy so

[00:15:48] daft that a girl can completely brainwash him

[00:15:51] the boy is not daft the mother is daft I'm sorry to say

[00:15:55] I mean I'm I live it when I heard about it

[00:15:57] I was like how can you and these are the people who are going to prevent this society

[00:16:01] from moving forward and continue to place the blame at the girl's door

[00:16:05] but you know there is a ray of hope I like the fact that the girl's mother is cool about it

[00:16:11] I like the fact that the girl and the boy know their own mind

[00:16:14] and I only hope that the boy is strong enough to one detail as mother

[00:16:17] that listen you're talking to your hat

[00:16:19] I am not interested in the girls given the boy an ultimate of it seems

[00:16:23] and said that is you know talk to your mother

[00:16:26] otherwise we are through

[00:16:28] I doubt such a small kid is going to be able to talk to his mother

[00:16:32] she pays his bills

[00:16:37] but I love it I love it the girls will change them yet

[00:16:41] and with that this is a wrap on this episode of Not Your Aunty

[00:16:45] this is Kiran Munral

[00:16:46] and this is Shunali Kula Shroff

[00:16:49] right into us tell us what you liked and what you didn't like

[00:16:52] I'm at Kiran Munral on all social media

[00:16:54] I'm Shunali Kula Shroff on Instagram and Shunali Shroff on Twitter

[00:16:58] see you next week

[00:16:59] Ciao