"Kinds Of Kindness"

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[00:00:46] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash income, all lowercase. Go to shopify.com slash income now to grow your business no matter what stage you're in. You are listening to the Next Best Picture Podcast, and this is our review of Kinds Of Kindness.

[00:01:12] This is it. Do you think I can do it? Sweet dreams are made of the air to disagree. Open your eyes and look clearly at what's going on around you. We might all be in danger. Hi. I love you. This isn't love.

[00:01:48] She asked me to fuck her in my uniform, and it hit me hard. Hold your head up. The truth is... Hold your head up. Move along. Keep your head up. Say it. Hold your head up. Move along. Keep your head up. Move along. Hold your head up.

[00:02:08] Move along. Keep your head up. Move along. We didn't, obviously. Fuck. All right, everybody. You were just listening to the trailer for Kinds Of Kindness, and the story is as follows. Three stories revolve around a man who tries to take control of his own life, a policeman

[00:02:28] whose wife seems like a different person, and a woman who searches for someone with a special ability. The film is starring Emma Stone, Jesse Plemons, Willem Dafoe, Margaret Qualey, Hong Chau, Joe Alwyn, Mamadou Abdi, and Hunter Schaefer.

[00:02:45] It is written and directed by Yorgos Lanthimos and co-written by Ephemis Philippou. Here to join me today for this podcast review, I have Josh Parham. Hello, hello. Dan Baer. Do you guys want to watch one of the videos? Oh, Dan, no. One of the older ones. Dan!

[00:03:04] Oh my God. That might have been one of your best intros ever. Okay. Jesus Christ. Thank you. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry to our guest here. Welcome back to the show. So happy to have you on for this. From Offscreen Central, everyone, it is Jillian Chillingarian. Hi.

[00:03:24] Happy to be back. Happy to have you and to talk about a movie too that I've seen that you've been so passionate about since you saw it. As we all know, this is Yorgos Lanthimos saying bye-bye Tony McNamara. Hello, Ephemis Philippou back in my life again.

[00:03:41] And we are all the better for it because, well, I mean, listen, I still like the collaborations with Tony McNamara, but this is how Yorgos Lanthimos got his start. He's like Dogtooth, The Lobster, Killing of a Sacred Deer, Alps. This is the stuff that he became known for.

[00:04:00] He's entered into a new level of popularity with films like The Favorite and Poor Things. But here it's Yorgos returning back to his roots and giving us something that quite frankly, we just don't see that often nowadays, the anthology film.

[00:04:14] Three separate stories all revolving around a very similar theme here. It's weird, it's dark. It had its world premiere at the Cannes Film Festival where it got a pretty strong reception and now it is finally playing in theaters less than a year since the release of Poor Things.

[00:04:33] So aren't we lucky to be getting this much Yorgos Lanthimos in our lives? And also too, collaborations with some of the people that he worked with on The Favorite and Poor Things returning here and some new people too.

[00:04:45] What did we think of it starting off first with our guest here, Jillian, opening thoughts? What did you think of Kinds of Kindness? Hi, if you know me, I've been raving about this film since seeing it.

[00:04:58] I wasn't the biggest like Poor Things fans so this felt like, like you mentioned kind of like a welcome back, a back to basics album of Yorgos and I like that he just gave us

[00:05:09] three different stories to really sit with and I don't know like it just, I like that he just lets us like basically fend for ourselves and as an audience like member, those are my favorite type of films and this it was like unexpected. It was wild.

[00:05:28] It had a lot to say with themes of like religion and control and I just like that there was so much to dissect because I feel like that's so rare with a lot of films these days and

[00:05:38] I think this is one that I'm still going to be like processing. So I was quite the fan and I was satisfied with his return to him being his own writer. Nice. I completely agree with you on that. Let's hear next though from Josh Parham.

[00:05:56] Josh, what did you think of Kinds of Kindness? I mean, I don't know if you've had a chance to rewatch it since Canne but I know that that's where you saw it with me. Yeah, we saw it together at the Cannes Film Festival.

[00:06:08] I haven't had the chance to rewatch it unfortunately but you know, a very memorable experience I think to take in that movie for the very first time and its premiere festival. So definitely left an impact that's for sure.

[00:06:22] And I think this movie absolutely does return to some of the weirder more singular tendencies of Lanthimos and I do find that to be really compelling in a lot of places. I do think that as much as I have admired his collaborations with McNamara, there is

[00:06:43] something to that more offbeat personality that Lanthimos can indulge in that gets stripped away a little bit and kind of the quote unquote classiness. I feel that McNamara kind of attempts to strive for and to get that more pure vision from

[00:06:59] him that return to it is really captivating in a lot of places. I do end up feeling though that like with almost every anthology film that I see, there are some sections that I think are really good.

[00:07:12] There's other sections that I think are a little bit more of a struggle to get with and there's definitely a ranking of them that I have in my mind in terms of how effective

[00:07:21] I think they are but taken as a whole, I did find myself really compelled by all of these stories. I think the performances are really, really great across the board honestly and I do actually

[00:07:32] like how each section has a showcase performance between who's sort of centering in the story. I did really like that. I liked the tone to most of them so I don't know if it is a great movie in my opinion.

[00:07:48] I don't know if I really felt like I was engaged at the highest peaks all the way through for me personally but as a whole, I did find myself entertained by it and I do think that the

[00:08:00] performances do a really good job of pulling me through so it's a good movie. I wouldn't say it's a great one in my opinion but I did enjoy myself while I was watching it. Okay, all right.

[00:08:11] And Dan Baer, the person who I saw it with on my rewatch most recently, what did you think of Kinds of Kindness? So I've been a huge fan of Yurgoslant the most ever since I saw Dogtooth in my watching of all the Oscar nominees from that year.

[00:08:31] And I agree with Josh that there is just like something that's missing from his collaborations with Tony McNamara. There is a specific kind of weirdness that I could describe as Lanthimosian in the same way that you could describe something as Cronenbergian or Lynchian, I feel like.

[00:08:57] And I don't think that that specific kind of weirdness is very present in Poor Things and The Favourite. I think there's some assumed in favor of other kinds of weirdness that I love in different ways.

[00:09:12] But I've been missing that there's basically been like a lobster-shaped hole in my heart that none of his films since then have really filled, including Killing of a Sacred Deer, which I liked, but I kind of respected it more than I enjoyed it.

[00:09:32] And going into this, there was admittedly quite a bit working against it in that I don't love anthology films usually because there are so many problems inherent in them. I was very excited by him working with his former writing partner again and with this

[00:09:54] cast, this insane cast of people who I don't blame them for wanting to work with him on whatever he does. So big ups to all of them for going in for this. I love his sensibility as a writer so much that the things about this that didn't work

[00:10:19] for me, I didn't mind because there was this really thrilling sense that I don't think I've really had in a film maybe since The Lobster and Killing of a Sacred Deer where genuinely from moment to moment, I had no clue what was going to happen next.

[00:10:47] Any point count, any moment during this film, and I'm like, well, where is this going? What's going to happen? That rush is so exciting and so rare that I have to bow down whenever I find a movie that has that quality.

[00:11:06] And this, I thought, has it in spades. I mean, yeah, some of the segments are better than others. And I think some of the actors do a better job at really separating their characters and making them unique.

[00:11:24] But overall, the vision of it, the tone of it, there's nothing else like this. And I love this movie, even if it is mostly just for that. So on my first viewing of this, I knew that I liked it and I knew that I definitely didn't

[00:11:45] like it as much as I enjoyed some of his other films. But it was hard for me to kind of pinpoint exactly why that was. So upon the rewatch, I went into the rewatch expecting to like it less or about the same.

[00:11:59] And I actually ended up liking it more after the second viewing. I was very surprised by how well so many of these stories still held up despite the off-kilter unpredictability and not knowing exactly what was always going to happen.

[00:12:17] That faded away because I knew now heading in how each one of these stories resolved themselves. But yet that still made it, I felt better for me to pinpoint exactly just what an effective storyteller he is.

[00:12:32] Even if you as an audience member are kind of like lost in the woods and not necessarily knowing where any of this is ultimately heading. And each one of these stories has like the central hook to them that just kind of pulls you in.

[00:12:46] And, you know, it's sharp and you're bleeding, but yet you just keep getting pulled into it no matter what. It is so, so, and I mean this in the loveliest manner possible, fucked up. His sensibilities as a storyteller. I love it. I really do.

[00:13:05] I admire that he is willing to push people into uncomfortable territory. I admire that by doing so he always has something meaningful to say. And I really do think that the theme of kinds of kindness in that these are characters who

[00:13:24] are searching for love and doing whatever they can to obtain it. It's a little bit more complex than that, but that's what I'm going to kind of start us off with here. I found that to be, as Josh said, very compelling.

[00:13:40] And each one of these performances from everyone are dialed in no matter if it's a big role, a small role, or if it's one of the leads. And, you know, in this case we'll get into each one of these in just a second here and discuss that.

[00:13:53] So what I'm going to do is we're going to start off in chronological order. We're going to go with the death of RMF to start off here. So for those of you who have not seen Kinds of Kindness, we are going to talk spoilers

[00:14:06] here when we discuss each one of these three stories. So if you haven't seen it, go off and see it. If you haven't seen it, come back. Feel free to listen to us from there. Otherwise, you're probably going to be spoiled by what we discuss. History is complicated.

[00:14:24] The story of human progress is long, messy, and riddled with controversies big and small. On Conflicted, we dive headfirst into history's most infamous events and contentious figures. We try and untangle the good from the bad, the facts from the fiction, and the monsters from the misunderstood.

[00:14:44] Was Genghis Khan a murderous butcher or a civic pioneer? Did the Allied powers go too far in firebombing the German city of Dresden at the twilight of World War II? And how did the Marquis de Sade acquire such a sinister reputation? And was any of it true?

[00:15:02] These are just a few of the tough questions we wrestle with and investigate on Conflicted. So if you love history or just enjoy a good story, please join me, your host Zach Cornwell, for a fascinating new topic each and every month.

[00:15:17] Conflicted, a history podcast is available on Spotify, Apple, or wherever else you get your podcasts. I hope to see you soon. The depth of our meth focuses on Robert Fletcher, who is following every order that's given to him by his controlling boss Raymond, played by Willem Dafoe.

[00:15:48] Jesse Plemons here, I would argue, dominates this first story as its definitive lead. And I think in many ways really helped him to win the Best Actor prize it can because this is the first story, it's the one you probably remember the most when you watch

[00:16:04] the movie, and he is the dominating presence in it. That's not to say that he has diminishing roles in the other two, but this was definitely a fun showcase, I thought, for Plemons throughout. So let's start off with this here, the depth of our meth.

[00:16:20] I guess the simple question that we can start off with is, was this anyone's favorite story of the three? It was mine. Yeah, absolutely. Which is sort of unfortunate that it started off as a high and didn't quite reach the same heights for me after that.

[00:16:37] But I did find this one to be the most intriguing. And I think it really is because of that performance from Jesse Plemons that he captures this spirit that is so easy to turn just completely off-putting.

[00:16:52] And it is in a lot of respects, but there's also something about him that you keep wanting to follow. And he has such a really complicated psychology to him where he wants independence but doesn't

[00:17:04] really, and tracking the ways in which he needs to be on his own and how out to see he is. I just found that to be so interesting and the execution was really, really intriguing to me. So this was definitely the one that I responded to the most.

[00:17:21] And I agree with you, Matt, that I think the reason why Jesse Plemons ended up winning Best Actor at Cannes is really because of this particular segment, because he is really at the forefront. He has the biggest spotlight in this particular part of the film.

[00:17:37] And I think it's a really great performance and a really fascinating character to play. I didn't have a favorite segment. I had a least favorite segment, though. This was not my least favorite.

[00:17:51] But I love that this segment does such an efficient job with setting up the tone of the other two segments. It's a really effective introduction to the style of acting that we're going to see.

[00:18:09] I keep thinking of Jesse Plemons and that refrain that he has of saying something and then go, I didn't actually do the thing or whatever it was. And there's just a hint of a lack of affect to his voice when he says it, that it makes

[00:18:32] it sound even more matter-of-fact. But also, he's kind of stalling for something somehow. It's fascinating. And I love how that style reflects his character, which is admittedly a little tricky to figure out until we get really deep into the story. And I like that.

[00:18:58] It really unfolds like you're watching an adaptation of a short story and constantly learning more about this person as you follow them along. I really liked that quality that I think applies to all the stories.

[00:19:14] But this one, I think it's the most audience-friendly in a lot of ways. I think it's the best paced, maybe the funniest. Even though my biggest laugh in the whole movie was not in this section.

[00:19:31] Although you got to admit, though, the Johnny McEnroe tennis racket reveal is hilarious. Every time that thing showed up, I lost it. That was good. And then the gag of Willem Dafoe sitting and then standing up and revealing that he was wearing these ridiculous short shorts.

[00:19:51] And the socks. Yes, the socks. The old man socks. Going up to his knees. Willem Dafoe. I love how this movie is basically, it could be retitled Everyone Wants to Fuck Willem Dafoe because across all three stories, they do.

[00:20:10] But there is something about his performance in this segment particularly that I just wanted more of him. There is something so sinister but so almost placid, I guess, about his appearance. And that sinister quality just comes out in the things that he asks people to do.

[00:20:41] But he sounds perfectly reasonable when he says it and whenever he's talking to people. But there is that quiet power that he holds that you can always tell he has in his back pocket and you don't know when it's going to turn.

[00:20:57] I thought he was so, so much fun to watch in this segment. I think the thing that makes me gravitate towards this first section the most, other than Plemons and Dafoe, credited to Dafoe like you said, I liked that this premise and the other ones

[00:21:15] too for the record. But this one in particular, you don't know why Raymond is doing this to Robert Fletcher. The movie never explains. Is this a social experiment? Is this something that, I mean, you do find out, I guess, later on that he does it with

[00:21:35] other people besides just Robert. But then you're also wondering too, to what end? What is Robert hoping to get out of this? What is Raymond hoping to get out of this? And the movie doesn't bother to ever explain that. It just is.

[00:21:46] Here's a guy who has given this other guy a set list of rules of how to live his life and tells him basically every day what he's supposed to do.

[00:21:56] But what if at some point after all the things that he tells this guy to do and he does them, eventually a line does not get crossed? What is that line? That makes for some really intriguing drama. And the line is he asks him to kill this man.

[00:22:16] He even tells him that this man has agreed to willingly be killed and he only goes by RMF. Funny story, really quick. RMF is actually one of Yorgos Lanthimos' closest friends in real life, the actor who plays him.

[00:22:33] And so I just found it very amusing that in the beginning of the film, it's like, I'm going to have you just get killed off in this automobile accident. But yeah, I thought that that was all very, very intriguing conflict.

[00:22:47] And it puts Robert through the wringer emotionally as he seeks to get back into Raymond's good graces. And once again, you don't know to what end. Because he wants everyone wants to fuck Willem Dafoe, Matt. Okay, well. That's why. Because he wants to fuck Willem Dafoe.

[00:23:06] Sure if that's your reading of it. Well, everybody wants a sense of like control in their lives to like, maybe that's what it is. Maybe he just wants that stability. And here's a guy who was willing to offer it to him and also in turn said, listen, if

[00:23:22] you do everything I say, you're going to have a nice house, you're going to have productive, you know, happy marriage, you're going to have like all these things. You just got to do everything I say.

[00:23:33] And it's also interesting because we it's revealed that they've been in this very dominating submissive relationship for the past 10 years. And so like watching it, I'm thinking what was this character of Robert like before Raymond had entered his life and yeah, you can quickly forget free will.

[00:23:54] And this story in particular, like it really gave me the Garden of Eden like Truman show type of construct where specifically with like the Garden of Eden aspect, like Robert starts to, you know, take this lifestyle for granted.

[00:24:12] And like he's shredding up the cards and he's like trying to order his own thing. And then once he gets that free will, he has no idea how to use it or like what he wants.

[00:24:24] Like he's in disarray as you know, he doesn't even know what he wants to eat. Like I just think it's very interesting. Yeah, it's almost like prisoners when they get released into the real world and without that structure and stability, they don't know what to do. Yeah.

[00:24:36] And it's like interesting how something you think that you wanted this whole time you finally have it and it's like, well, what do I do with it now? And I feel like Jesse gives such a good performance.

[00:24:47] Like I feel like the entire movie is like three hours of Jesse Plymouth being gaslit like watching him. Watching him, I feel like act that out. And I think going back into like what Dan said of setting the tone, like if you watch

[00:25:03] a lot of your Ghostlanthimos films, I think you can kind of see it in the Tony McNamara era. But the way that his characters speak is so like it's so monotone. There's no emotion behind it.

[00:25:16] And like that scene of him trying to woo the girl and the little bar they're at. And he's like, oh, my hand like that delivery. I was like laughing like it was so funny.

[00:25:29] The way that he finds comedy in just the most unassuming moments of these situations that are so crazy. And it was one where I was like, how is this going to I feel like every story, but this

[00:25:42] one starting off, I was just like, OK, like this might happen or this might like I was thinking of things of how it could unfold. And it was like none of that actually happened. It was like something completely different.

[00:25:53] And I kind of like that rush that was mentioned earlier of like you're kind of on the line to see, you know, he finally has to succumb to this very detrimental place just to win over the favor.

[00:26:07] Because I think it goes into like we think we want control. But like the thing that we need as humans is like admiration and love. And yeah, that might, you know, trump everything else that we think that we might want.

[00:26:19] So I love that there was kind of that allegory in there and, you know, he had to run someone over with his car multiple times to do that. And it ending with Margaret Qualley singing How Deep Is Your Love on the piano was like 10 out of 10 right there.

[00:26:36] I was like, that is that is the thesis of like this entire film. And I just like love those moments where he's he's so fearful of this man, but also like he's so desperate for his admiration and like for his love.

[00:26:51] And I think Jesse just plays that duality so well where you can never tell if it's like fear or actual like love. And as was mentioned, we don't get like a full backstory on any of these characters.

[00:27:04] We don't know what led the Jesse Plemons character like to this moment where he feels so dependent on this other man. And I think this particular section really gets that balance right of giving us just

[00:27:16] enough details to understand the dynamic and the relationships, but leaving enough in, you know, that is uncovered and not known to us for us to also still be on the hook, as we

[00:27:30] said, to be intrigued by what is actually going on and learn more as the story progresses. I think this particular section gets that balance really, really right. And I think that's the reason why I ended up responding to it the most, because it felt

[00:27:43] like I could get a foundation of what these characters were, but it was like just off kilter enough for me to feel like, OK, it's still strange, but I'm really, really intrigued. And I really loved this exploration of the question of free will and how we yearn for

[00:28:01] it so much. But when we're finally given it, it can also feel so arresting that you don't know what to do with all of your choices. And then you just feel like you need to panic and go back to the way that it was, no matter

[00:28:13] what desperate action you need to take from it. And I found that obviously as it is presented, it's a parable and it's a little bit flamboyant. But at the same time, I thought the core ideas there were so fascinating and I thought the execution was really, really strong.

[00:28:30] I just started giggling, Josh, because as you were explaining that, I just thought to myself, my God. This is why everybody now who has been exposed to streaming services wants to go back to cable all of a sudden. Just tell me what I can watch.

[00:28:47] Just don't give me all these options. We want structure in our lives, no matter how much we crave independence. We also love the predictability of life that it can offer us sometimes. And I find that to be a really interesting exploration in this particular section.

[00:29:05] I do think the balance is well struck here in terms of tone and pacing, as mentioned earlier. I think this one definitely has the best pacing of the three, but there's one aspect of it that I really felt was undercooked, and that was Robert's relationship with Rita, played

[00:29:26] by Emma Stone here. It just doesn't feel like there's resolution and there's a lot of setup that goes into introducing her and the two of them meeting in a way that isn't as contrived as Jillian was saying earlier with him in the hallway, like saying, oh, my hand.

[00:29:45] Instead, he hurts his foot and it works. And you think they're striking up a connection, but then you find out later that Rita is actually also, God, another person who is being controlled by Raymond. And then I feel like that is dropped.

[00:30:04] Robert basically gets freaked out by that, runs away and kills RMF, goes back to Raymond's mansion and that's over. I'm left over here wondering, well, what about Rita? And does something else happen between Rita and Robert after this?

[00:30:17] So I just felt like there was maybe a little bit more that could have been done there as all. I also am curious of... This is how not psycho I am, but how over analytical I am watching movies.

[00:30:28] If she's an optometrist, how is she able to afford that house? Which I don't know why that was the biggest like, I'm not saying it's like a plot hole, but I was just sitting there thinking and then when he's in the house, I was also like,

[00:30:43] I've seen the movie twice and I still I don't know if I'm missing something that photo of her that he's looking at. I'm just like, what's the story behind that? Like, it's interesting. The clothing choices that Raymond picks for her, I feel like are very...

[00:30:59] I want a story there. I agree. There's little moments with the character of Rita where I don't know what exactly her purpose is to serve. Maybe it's to make Robert jealous that he's replaceable and someone's actually going to

[00:31:15] go along with what Raymond wanted them to do with no questions asked. In his mind, maybe that's the inspiration he needs to win back someone by saying that he is replaced by someone with literally like the same initials as him and getting the same

[00:31:32] car and the McEnroe racket. So I don't know if that's what she's working at. But I do agree. I think I would have liked to see more time between the two of them, but I don't know exactly what I would have wanted them to do together.

[00:31:48] I have a theory. Ooh, laid on us. So it's not about the story, but it is about character a little because I think Emma Stone, when she comes into this section, she literally comes in like a breath of fresh air.

[00:32:06] She feels so loose and easy where everyone else seems kind of uptight and a little stilted, specifically in the dialogue. And she doesn't. And I love that because she represents this idea to Robert of freedom.

[00:32:27] She can sort of do whatever she wants and she has that in her life and he wants that, but then he learns that she's actually not as free as he thinks. Yeah. And then it also brings up the question of how many other people is Raymond doing this

[00:32:48] to? I think, you know, we as an audience are led to believe early on that Robert might be the only person in the world that this is happening to. And this is like just an experiment that only he's a part of.

[00:32:59] And so this reveal that she's also being controlled as well, it does open up a lot of questions then all of a sudden, you know? And so I guess this is, you know, Dan, you were saying something earlier about how anthology

[00:33:12] films are not something that you necessarily jive with. I imagine that this is probably a downside, right? Is that each one has to basically be a short film and as a result of which it doesn't leave as much room then for exploration.

[00:33:27] Whereas if you took this 165 minute runtime of this movie, for example, and applied it to just one of these stories, you could get all of that. I think it's kind of, I guess, like why I'm glad Wes Anderson released all his Roald Dahl

[00:33:43] shorts separately, not as one movie. Because it feels like each of them was designed to be on its own and it's the length that it needs to be on its own and it all has to do is stand on its own.

[00:33:57] It doesn't need to fit in with another story. It doesn't need to be edited in any way to fit a longer runtime that encompasses other stories. And there's not a danger of the next thing you watch as part of the program not living

[00:34:15] up to what you just watched. That's all part of it. I don't necessarily mind, you know, when one of the segments of an anthology story is a complete beginning, middle and end story. And it feels like it's been thought of as such.

[00:34:33] Usually I can find directors in these kind of things, they do make each segment work. But putting them together, then you get a, well, I liked this part, but not that part. That story was so much more fun than this story, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:34:52] That's one of the things that kind of makes it weird for me. So now my question that has nothing to do with the film itself. Curious to know what's the craziest thing either one of you have ever done for the adoration of somebody else?

[00:35:07] What makes you think we will admit that on Mike right now? Yeah, it's like I'm not gonna say. That's for you to know. Why not? For entertainment sake, you know, let's just ask the question, see what happens. Now that shit is going to my grave.

[00:35:22] Does it have anything to do with Haktua? No comment. All right, all right. I will say I also really, really love, especially in this section, the score with all these piano little plinks and then booms. Oh yeah. It's used so effectively.

[00:35:48] Jerskyn Fendrick's returning after working with Yorgos on Poor Things and- This man. Seriously, yeah. My new favorite film score. I felt that it was like a really good like obviously scores are really good indicators of how you should feel.

[00:36:04] But this one, every time that Jesse Plyman's character was about to do something that I'm like, please don't do that. And to me, like those chants felt like you're in trouble. Being like, no, like stop. The thing with his foot. I was like, oh my goodness. Oh God.

[00:36:21] And so I kind of like that you kind of it like the film, like it's not like a lot of stuff is happening, but like my heart rate was up because I'm just like, oh gosh, like the score

[00:36:31] and I'm watching him do these things that he shouldn't be doing. And then it was just I think it was like a perfect combination. I was telling Dan after we saw it, I was like, I need to rip the audio of the chant

[00:36:44] of no and just like use that forever in every conversation. Or if I reply to somebody on social media, that's like my new go to no response. No. Oh, so good. So, so good. I really, really love the score for this for this film.

[00:37:04] And I like it because it's unexpected. It's just off enough like poor thing score was where you're like, OK, I understand how I think this would sound if it was in another film. But then Jerskin just does something rather unique with either the timing or goes in just

[00:37:28] a completely opposite direction of where your brain thinks it's going to go. And it just adds up to to create a soundscape that sounds so unique as as, you know, I don't

[00:37:41] want to say land land for most and because it just sounds like, you know, but at the same time it is. But no, yeah, like he Jerskin Fendrick's feels like the perfect oral match for the world of your ghost land.

[00:37:57] The right, it's like he it's like it's like Spielberg finding John Williams. It's like, please, the two of you never not work together. I beg you very much that which I would also like to say to your ghost and Emma Stone because

[00:38:14] she is on a air right now. This is yet another piece like her work in this film as a whole. It's some of her best work in her career, if you ask me. Well, in the second story here, RMF is flying.

[00:38:31] In my opinion, this story is shared between Plemons and Stone. So the first story dominated by Plemons, this one, it feels like it's a 50 50 split between the two of them. And in this story, we have Daniel who basically is starting to suspect that his wife who has

[00:38:51] returned from being missing at sea is not who she says she is. Daniel is a police officer who has a very interesting relationship with his partner and his wife as well. And this is another story about how far will you go to prove your devotion to somebody else?

[00:39:17] What did we think of RMF is flying? So remember how I said I didn't have a favorite segment, but I did have a least favorite? This was my least favorite. Same. And it's not because of the content or what it's about or because it's just done in an

[00:39:40] overall poorer way compared to the other ones. It all comes down to the pacing. Yes. The pacing of this is just very slow, very drawn out. And for the story to go where it goes and it took that long to get there, I was very confused. Although…

[00:40:09] You can say disappointed. Yeah, I liked a lot of the little narrative early cues it goes on, but every beat in this lasts twice as long as it probably should. Yeah, I feel like watching it a second time, you know where the comedic bits are, where

[00:40:34] the parts of the story you're waiting for. And so I don't know if it's that or just anticipating towards the end when he asks her to cut off her thumb and then cut out her liver. And those, I feel like are where it really ramps up.

[00:40:50] And I'm still sitting with this one of what does it mean? What is the real story? Was there another woman this whole time? Is he really manic? Like this one definitely left me a little bit more stumped than the other ones, but

[00:41:09] I think it's just very much more subdued compared to one and three. I don't know, like on a rewatch, it was a little bit more harder to get through and not as I think because so much unexpectedness happens like and you already know what happens.

[00:41:27] It's like you're just again anticipating. But I really like the maternal or the paternal relationship between Emma Stone and Willem Dafoe in this one. And I feel like it continues over from what we saw in Poor Things.

[00:41:41] And I feel like they're a really good pairing, even though we don't see much. I just have so many questions about what was happening on screen. And I feel like the tone just really shifted halfway through to I don't know what was going on.

[00:41:57] I do really love Joel Alwyn in this and his like three seconds where Jesse Plymouth shoots him. And then I thought he was going to resort to cannibalism because I don't know why he started like licking his hands. And that was wild. It was insane.

[00:42:15] Whoa, like it's getting crazy. Like I was like this man is manic and then like the whole like pregnancy storyline and then her like beating herself up but like we don't see it. And we're like, is it him?

[00:42:27] Like I don't think it's a story about morals and I don't think any of these are and that's what I like about your Ghostlanthimos films because I think it's so outlandish that we're not really like judging these people on the decisions they're making.

[00:42:42] We're just like trying to figure out I think what these dynamics are and what the rules are. And I feel like I don't know this one just feels like an outlier between all three of them.

[00:42:54] But it's funny like I thought it was funny like I remember at the press screening here in LA which was interesting. I think everyone was like over the age of 60 watching this and oh my God being 24.

[00:43:07] I was like okay this should be a time and people were laughing people were really into it when she cut out her liver and then compared to seeing it at a packed AMC last week where

[00:43:18] more young people like it's like you showed them a foreign language film without subtitles like people were just not grasping what was happening in this segment. So I think it's all that part is also interesting of like which audiences kind of grasp these

[00:43:33] ideas more but I don't know still trying to figure it out. I think what you said before about how your ghost doesn't ask us to judge these people. I agree with that wholeheartedly. I don't think it is about like the moral questions if you will.

[00:43:49] I think it is just more about taking the situation and the concept itself and I know it's extreme. I know it's not based within reality but it does then I think get us asking questions

[00:44:04] that are fun to ask like for example if your spouse asked you to cut off your say your little finger would you would you do it because you love them probably not but I don't know

[00:44:19] these are questions I think that are interesting to ask or has anyone like here ever contemplated off are my parents my real parents or you know is this is this person here the same

[00:44:32] person that I thought they were before it feels like an alien took over their body or something I don't know. I feel like we've all had these moments in life where we question our reality.

[00:44:44] You know to some degree or another and I once again think that there is some really good tension and conflict that's introduced here when Daniel starts questioning the legitimacy

[00:44:58] of this person that is living with him whether or not if she is his wife but what Dan was saying earlier regarding the pacing there is something that's off balance here regarding the comedy the intrigue the darkness the moments of violence this one is not as well balanced

[00:45:20] as the first one and I think it all does come down to the pacing it's interesting because I've had times where I'm watching this movie and I say this movie not rmf is flying I mean

[00:45:30] kinds of kindness where it feels like certain sections move very quickly and then there's other sections that just feel like a slog to get through and then you're like reminded oh yeah that's right this whole entire thing is two hours and 45 minutes long I actually

[00:45:48] haven't taken the time to break down how long each section is I'm sure somebody has but I would guess they get longer as they go right I think rmf eats a sandwich the third one's probably the longest

[00:46:07] yeah I think the third one is the longest I would agree because I feel like the first one it also could just be the pacing like the first one is just very like snappy very

[00:46:17] moving flowing well and then maybe it's because the second one and a little bit third one like the pacing feels off it could feel more like you're just waiting for it to build up yeah

[00:46:28] and what it builds up to is you know definitely dark and messed up but it's not super this is gonna sound really weird for something you know obviously cutting out your liver is kind of crazy

[00:46:39] but like it's not supremely shocking for for lanthimos in my opinion well it also feels so muddled I think is the thing to me the issue with this particular section is yeah the it is the

[00:46:51] pacing but I think what ties into that is also a sense of momentum because things can be paced slowly but if you feel like the story is building to something if you feel as if the actions of

[00:47:03] these characters are leading you down a path of some kind of discovery that at least still keeps you interested and I found that this particular one could never really get a strong footing in

[00:47:13] terms of like a very strong dynamic with these characters and then ultimately what the thematic commentary was supposed to be and I found that because it was lacking in that aspect I could never really grab onto this section and become really interested in it because it felt like

[00:47:32] it was so opaque in terms of what it wanted to actually end up being and then by the time we got to the end I felt very underwhelmed I did really feel like okay that that's it and I was

[00:47:44] really left very disappointed by the end of this section hear me out with this maybe maybe this might be the problem I do think thematically speaking it actually is the same exact thing as

[00:47:56] the first one where it is all about how far will you go to prove your love for another person the problem is that that is told or or that question is is presented asked from the perspective of

[00:48:16] Emma Stone's character Liz but the story is not told through Liz's eyes it's told through Daniel's eyes he's not the one who is having to put himself through these trials and tribulations at the behest of his spouse to prove his love to her it's the other way around

[00:48:38] but yet it's told from his perspective so I I think maybe that's where the disconnect comes in a little bit because I mean I think we're all able to identify that connection between not just the

[00:48:50] first two stories but also how did also bleeds into the third story as well but it just feels to me like we're following the wrong character well it's also like she just experienced a very

[00:49:00] traumatic event and he's not really giving her like she's she's ready to jump back into life but I feel like he's not and it could go into this of it being his perspective of like him

[00:49:14] not giving her the space to I don't know process what she went through or even talk to her about it like he's just making assumptions and conspiracy theories and but it turns out to be right by the

[00:49:28] end uh his real wife shows up well I'm like is that real yeah I've been thinking about that since and I'm like he's on the other line of the phone that's a good point yeah it's it's very

[00:49:42] he's on the pills he's biting people I forgot about the phones yeah yeah it's one of those things where I'm like looking back on it like is in the moment I was like oh really oh okay I see

[00:49:56] why they at some point they called this a sci-fi thing but it doesn't it's not satisfying that way I don't think because then it comes up as like it works in the moment as like oh my god he was

[00:50:13] right the whole time because that's such a ridiculous thing but I think you're right it kind of throws off the balance of the story in a way that doesn't work I don't know we need

[00:50:30] either more point of view from her or it needs to be clear about what is ultimately going on here I think for it to work and it reads like they couldn't decide not that they wanted it to be

[00:50:53] ambiguous and that's a problem for me I also kind of feel like this story actually would be stronger if it did not include the scene when she shows up at the end and we have like the quote-unquote

[00:51:09] real wife because like if you take that scene at face value I feel like that completely undercuts the entire premise of you not knowing if the person that you're married to or that you're in

[00:51:22] a relationship with is like the same one that you entered in before and you're feeling this self-doubt like that's actually a really interesting idea that I would go with but I do feel like its resolution

[00:51:34] feels very much at odds with that thematic exploration and I think it's another reason why I get to the end of it and it's like okay I mean I guess that's like kind of a funny reveal and it

[00:51:44] is slightly amusing but it feels totally at odds with what the point of this story was supposed to have been and therefore I just feel so like lost in terms of what I was actually supposed to get out

[00:51:58] of this besides some very funny asides like there's funny moments in this you know I love the dinner scene with all of them and her talking about the tape as was mentioned before there are

[00:52:09] they're great like individual moments for sure but I feel like it never added up to something very satisfying to me well also like when she calls her dad at the end and she's like we're

[00:52:20] going away there's gonna be no wi-fi like is she aware that she is going to be dead within the next 24 hours or like I feel like it just left a lot of clues which I think the entire movie leaves you

[00:52:35] clues for you to put together your own interpretation but I think this movie just or this section just felt like conversations were had and you're holding on to it and you're like is this gonna play off in

[00:52:47] the end like the thing with the dogs it was like is this real dogs oh my god the dogs chocolate cake I was like what does it mean you know the funny thing uh too for me I I was fucking up the first

[00:53:01] time I saw this because I was viewing it all wrong when they revealed the title card is RMF is flying I was like okay RMF RMF from before okay and I was like okay RMF is gonna be a part of this

[00:53:14] somehow and then my brain started wondering oh maybe Raymond played by Willem Dafoe in the first story is somehow behind this and I like completely forgot oh no wait a minute they're all playing

[00:53:26] separate characters there's like no crossover here but then I was like but wait a minute why is RMF then a crossover and so my crossover brain got criss-crossed yeah I think RMF is just

[00:53:38] a one little thread that connects all of them I don't think he's like meant to be that important I feel like that's just like a little little nod to tie them all together what do you think RMF

[00:53:51] stands for rich motherfucker yeah I don't know maybe I like that that actor was also in poor things though yeah maybe we'll go rad motherfucker I don't know but yeah this was definitely for me

[00:54:07] my least favorite of the three I still liked it or liked aspects of it yeah particularly I liked the presence of Babadoo Athe in this one I think of the three this is where he gets to

[00:54:24] shine probably the most and god that dinner scene is that reveal is something else let me tell you the reveal of the tape I was dying yeah okay I think too this is a good example of how

[00:54:41] because I was thinking this is where I really started thinking a lot about earlier this year The Curse Nathan Fielder's show with Benny Safdie and Emma Stone where that was also a story that kept its audience at an arm's distance but was also pulling you in because

[00:55:01] you were at a distance you didn't know exactly what was always going on and it caused you to lean in to better understand what was happening you do run the risk of not being able to

[00:55:13] successfully pull your audience in and then they end up pulling back instead and I think that that's what happened here is that they didn't give us enough to lean in on and as a result we all ended

[00:55:27] up pulling back and saying ah you kind of lost me there buddy yeah this is the most alien feeling of the stories and I think that I think that alien is a good descriptor of a lot of Land

[00:55:44] of the Moses work but at his best when it's something like Dogtooth or The Lobster he manages to have something in that alien-ness that we can connect to there is some recognizable human

[00:56:03] behavior that we can say okay I understand that and I can latch onto that as my guide through this story but with this one there's so much that is just a lapse of human logic as we know it

[00:56:21] and then for it to end with like ah ha see is just feels very like what what what were we doing here what was the point of this of this one yeah because in my in my opinion the story is basically saying

[00:56:39] see he was right but as soon as I said that earlier you guys seem to all kind of like push back on me and be like well is he and I'm like well I don't know it seems like that that's what they're

[00:56:49] trying to say it does seem like that but like the thing is like the further away I get from it the more like but but but no like they couldn't what are you saying that because like you genuinely

[00:57:02] think that there's an ambiguity or because it's just not a very interesting way to end it I was gonna say I thought it sounds more interesting like I said like I feel like they chose it reads

[00:57:15] to me like they came on that ending because they could not decide how to end it and they wanted it to maybe have some ambiguity but they just decided to say fuck it I'm wondering if it's like one of

[00:57:30] those things where they like the movie gives you all the tools it thinks that you need and it's just like your interpretation of like was there a second like was there the second woman this whole

[00:57:45] time or like was she the original Liz or was she right like it could I don't know it's kind of giving that because they do argue for both cases like is he hostile towards her and he's very

[00:58:01] standoffish and he has the pills and she goes to the doctor and I'm like how was she pregnant like there's just like so many things that they leave and so I'm like it I don't know one of those

[00:58:12] movies were like we're not going to tell you it's up to the viewer to decide whether they think that this is real or not is what I feel like it's giving but it's like one of those the more you get away

[00:58:24] from it I'm like it was just there yeah an odd way to end it in my opinion I also I just really now feel like thinking about it more it would just be so much stronger if we did not have that reveal

[00:58:37] and it was kept a little bit more ambiguous because then I think you really would have a very intriguing allegory about the nature of relationships as they progress and how you fast

[00:58:49] forward and suddenly the person that you spend so much time with doesn't feel like they are the same person anymore and you're kind of interrogating that and you're looking within yourself too and

[00:58:59] I still think you would have had the same pacing problems but thematically would have found a lot more solid foundation I think to build from that and as it stands with the ending that we are

[00:59:11] given it just feels like it's presented more as a cheeky twist and kind of an elbow to your side and be like huh isn't that kind of funny but what we then lose in terms of thematic weight I don't

[00:59:24] really like that trade-off I agree it would have been interesting if like he just opened the door but like we didn't see yeah something something like that it's Willem Dafoe or or they did

[00:59:36] something with the like lighting in that moment to make it clear like is it the natural light coming from outside or is it he imagining yeah you know yeah there's something of that effect

[00:59:49] I think would have been cool or like what if it's you know the cops and they're coming to arrest him or like something that ties maybe something that tied back to like her going to the hospital

[00:59:57] like it was just I feel like this abruptly happened and maybe there's no answer to it shout out to the guy who plays their police captain I know he's not a trained actor but he

[01:00:14] just had such a great voice and also ditto to the doctor oh yeah that uh Daniel speaks to he had a great voice too I wait was he now with them thinking about was he a doctor no no you know

[01:00:29] what he was he was on like the cop like therapist yes that's who yeah great great voice I like in the beginning when he is sitting next to the suspect and he's like doesn't that look like Liz

[01:00:44] that's where it's like kind of like okay something is off with he's experienced trauma she has trauma they're obviously not going to get help so I'm like maybe it's just something conjured up in their minds but that's another thing too I want to also point out as well

[01:01:00] I feel like him being a cop there's no exploration of that like to me he could have been anything it's like okay why make him a cop if you're not going to say anything or do anything with that

[01:01:13] you know yeah I mean and then like I don't I feel like this one there was a lot of funny moments so like when um he thinks that the girl he pulls over has his phone like I think it's just like

[01:01:25] Jesse Plevin's really pulling off this character but yeah this one I feel like had a lot of funny moments that were really unexpected and how it felt so like like we mentioned like alien and not

[01:01:38] really human but it was like I don't know I laughed a lot during this she then hit me with my night stick like hard we obviously didn't fuck like Plemons is such a gift yeah he's so good and

[01:02:01] everything yeah the deadpan he he's he has the Lamp of the Mosian quality he gets the dialogue I I especially loved him in this movie and in this section I think he is really great

[01:02:21] did your audience wince when she took off her finger I could not watch that part I feel like there was more of a reaction to the cooking of the finger more so than the

[01:02:37] cutting off of the finger that's interesting but my my WTF moment I said this to Dan when we walked out the second time was how did she get the liver all the way from there all the way to

[01:02:51] over there there's not like there are no veins attached it's like she did precision surgery okay one incision cut it up there's no mess just a trail of blood I that reveal of her just like

[01:03:06] lying in the chair with her liver on the floor on the other side of her body I had so many questions but it's such the when that image popped up on my screen it was it was so so funny to me

[01:03:21] and I felt so bad about laughing about it but yeah and then the other moment this is like I feel like the way that they delivered the dialogue in this whole series like section

[01:03:32] it's I don't think it's supposed to be funny but it's like when he he's like oh your finger it was disgusting I fed it to the cat why is he just like the way he's talking to her is just so like it's so funny all right

[01:03:48] our MF eats a sandwich these titles uh Emily and Andrew played by Emma Stone and Jesse Plemons are cult members who it's a little it I don't want to like do a whole summary here but essentially

[01:04:07] they're just like fucking Willem Dafoe and Hong Chao and there's a whole thing about the water being contaminated and it's like their sweat and yeah it's a whole thing anyway Emily is secretly searching though for this person that can bring people back from the dead

[01:04:29] and this is the longest story of the three uh this is the one that I would say for me is probably my second favorite behind the first because I think the length eventually does work against it because

[01:04:43] there are certain sections in this that are very strong some of my favorite of the entire movie but then there are other portions of it where once again the pacing becomes a bit of a problem

[01:04:56] and then you know I just think at the end of it all I was like kind of feeling a little bit of a dissatisfaction but also still fulfillment like like there was a mixture where I was like okay I

[01:05:10] don't know what I expected I feel like I got what I wanted but also I was expecting maybe just a little bit more too from all of this um so let's talk it through here RMF Eats a Sandwich what do

[01:05:21] you all think? I think this section definitely has some of the same pacing and momentum problems as the previous one did but I did find myself more engaged with it overall and I don't know if it's

[01:05:34] maybe just because the overall tone and atmosphere just felt a little bit more compelling to me I think that maybe just the characters I found to be more interesting I think the hook of the premise

[01:05:47] I was really invested in as well just them trying to find this person and it has a great ending like the way that this one wraps up I think is just really really well done and I think and I want

[01:05:59] to be I want to be clear about this you mean like the ending or the ending ending? I mean like all of it I think the entire resolution to this particular section especially compared to the

[01:06:09] one before where we were all just like befuddled and confused and don't know really what it all meant I feel like this one has a similar it does have a similar sense of nihilism but to a point

[01:06:22] and like it's supposed to make you feel like the rug's kind of taken out from under you under you but in a way that fit the overall story I think a lot better and I think that's the reason why I

[01:06:34] ended up enjoying this one a little bit more even though it has some of the same issues in terms of the way the story progresses I think taken as a whole it had more interesting pieces that you

[01:06:45] could latch on to. I think the other thing too that's the secret weapon of this third story is Emma Stone this is this is her story basically and I think she completely

[01:06:59] knocks it out of the park here I Dan you were mentioning earlier she's like doing some of her strongest work of her career I don't know if it's so much like specifically in this film I think

[01:07:11] her work in The Favorite and Poor Things with Glamour Promose I prefer a little bit more but she has some really really strong moments in this section in particular where I would agree with

[01:07:23] you that you know maybe not overall across all three but in this section specifically she is doing some A-tier level work that is really pulling me in as a viewer and getting me to care

[01:07:38] so much about her yeah like going back to the theme of the of the whole of the whole piece you know her plight in her quest to get the adoration of these two cult leaders she is phenomenal

[01:07:58] in this section especially I was it's hard to be like blown away by someone that we've seen in so many movies at this point but here I was being blown away by Emma Stone and her

[01:08:17] insane acting abilities yet again and there I particularly love how this story reveals the backstory of the character that she plays I love that we just like show up at her

[01:08:39] you know her to her family's house and it's like oh shit like and we know what's gonna happen we do I mean like you you know eventually that like she's not coming back to the family

[01:08:52] even though like they're gonna try to make her and the you can see it you can see this all in her face and it's just so it I found it incredibly incredibly moving what she was doing with with this performance and I really there was something that felt

[01:09:14] more personal about this story to me I don't know how else to describe it really well you said it earlier everybody wants to fuck Willem Dafoe so I mean well I mean it tracks there is that and I had

[01:09:31] internally a very strong very violent reaction seeing Bella Baxter kiss her god full on the mouth I did not I did not like it but extreme close-up too might I add these are different characters

[01:09:52] you know take that out of the equation but I will say that there is something about this section that really drew me in with the the characters and the situations they found themselves in I felt more

[01:10:05] connected to this one than to the other stories even though I do agree that there there are probably more pacing issues with this one than the first story certainly but I don't know this

[01:10:17] is the one that I that I keep thinking about afterwards well I think you hit the nail on the head when you said that Emma Stone's performance is so moving this is definitely the most emotional

[01:10:29] of the three stories and I think that goes a long way because the other ones feel so much more detached where this one I feel like has that humanity behind stones performance to give it something a little extra that does help overcompensate some more of its

[01:10:50] structural pacing problems. Yeah, I feel like going off of that. In comparison, I'd like the first one or the third one feel the most related going off of like that same

[01:11:03] idea of like the Garden of Eden and I think Emma Stone's character is so interesting in this one because she's in this cult I would say she's a pretty high ranking member like we don't really

[01:11:16] know much about these people other than they drink the tears of Willem Dafoe and Hong Chao and she is on this quest to find this person like she seems like she has a lot of authority

[01:11:28] she left her family behind like all these things but in that scene where she's kissing Willem Dafoe the way her face is it's like she's hesitant like she's not fully in this realm of this world but

[01:11:42] she's also not like in the realm and I love that when Hong Chao's character says like oh you can go back to being like a mom a stay-at-home mom or like a wife and it's like that's not like what

[01:11:53] she wants like and she knows she can't have both worlds as she again like takes that for granted and tries to do that and is exiled basically but here like in comparison to I think Jesse

[01:12:08] Plymouth's character in the first one like they're both pretty selfish people but I think like what really got me here is she gets a little cocky when she figures out a way back in and that's what

[01:12:20] I think is the payoff of the ending which makes it so funny when she's like we're on the way to the boat we'll be there in two hours do you want water and you know after she does her little dance

[01:12:31] and it crashes into that boat on the side of the road which like absolutely killed me and I think is one of the most like clever visual gags I've seen in a while in a film but I feel like it's

[01:12:43] really like mentioned that humanity that she brings into it and she you know she just won her second Oscar and she's a really big deal and it didn't it just felt like she throughout the

[01:12:55] three stories until this moment she was able to like let the ensemble work and like never really overshadow and like know exactly how to play this part without doing too much where she's so serious

[01:13:09] and it's so believable but she's also like like still harboring onto her old life while trying to be in this new life and her opposite Joel Alwyn like I think Joel Alwyn is so fantastic in this

[01:13:22] sequence too he just goes from like the most unassuming man to like this absolutely like slimy individual again like after his own selfishness of wanting her back in the family and like his whole thing about lying about the daughter with her foot and then you know she's

[01:13:41] like what do you mean like I didn't hurt my foot and then that scene of them in the parking lot where she's explaining to her daughter about like contaminated water and he's like pushing her away

[01:13:51] like she's just so amazing and the story and I think it's it's the piece to like why this one resonates so well and like work so well and you're kind of rooting for her to get back in but you're

[01:14:04] also like at what cost of basically kidnapping another human being without telling them what is that like exactly going to go on so I feel like this was the one that felt like it had the most

[01:14:16] stakes to watch that scene that she has with Joel Alwyn back in the house too is so so horrific and the way that she reacts to it when she goes into the shower afterwards and realizes that

[01:14:33] forget about the fact that he completely violated her and assaulted her uh drugged her but she is you know as as an effect of this like more concerned about being contaminated and not

[01:14:47] allowed back within this community a community that she feels so a part of that has completely dominated her life and has led to her not being with her family that it's like her her entire way

[01:15:02] of life her existence like it's it's all going away and there's something I think very relatable in that and it's definitely odd to say the least in terms of you know what the cult stands for what

[01:15:17] they're doing and so on and so forth um they have all these rules that they have to abide by as a result uh you know we were saying earlier they drink the tears of Defoe and Hong Chao it's like

[01:15:29] what is what a statement to say out loud but it's true it's that is what is happening here I mean what you don't I mean well I think that this one just has a lot to latch on to here even in the

[01:15:46] weird machinations of the plot like you you still are able to grasp onto that humanity and her also then trying to find her way back in through finding this guru this savior this uh

[01:16:04] figure who's going to be essentially like the like their shrine if you will for their cult you know that they're forever gonna worship and I love to see him where he takes her on the boat

[01:16:18] and he like explains oh like this is where she this is like the prayer room where she's gonna spend like most of her time and I'm like this is insane you know like all this is insane

[01:16:30] the name of the boat like there's so many good visual gags oh my god the the name of the boat he thought it sounded like santa claus you're just like I was laughing and like no one else was laughing no that was funny that was

[01:16:44] legitimately that was I had completely forgotten about that until you mentioned it and as soon as you said the name of the boat I was like oh my god oh that was good um but yeah I think when it

[01:16:59] comes to the ending beautiful well so where I'm a little where I am a little slightly mixed and I want to be clear I like the ending I wish I loved it and I think it is because that rugby

[01:17:15] pulled out from underneath me I don't know about you guys but I was so invested in the Emily character that when she did find margaret qualey's uh of her twin and discovered that she is indeed

[01:17:31] the one that has the ability to rise uh rmf from the dead and she is going to be this person that she could bring back to the cult by her way back in I was like you did it girl you triumphed you

[01:17:44] found your way and I was pretty content with that so then for the movie to cruelly take that away from her I don't know I there was a part of me that didn't felt bad maybe because I had gotten

[01:17:57] so attached but the thing is I know I know I listen I said it's good I like it yeah I'm just saying what I what I personally wanted how did I get that but like that's the reason why I do like

[01:18:08] because that ending yes you are crushed by it but I as I said I think that's the point and it really underlined how much this whole thing all three of these stories reminded me so much of the twilight

[01:18:20] zone which is presenting a situation where you're intrigued by it and then you get to the end and there is a little bit of a twist that is in you know I think twilight zone does it a little bit

[01:18:31] better in terms of like revealing some more thematic commentary than this movie does in particular but I think it's still in the same kind of vein of that and yes the fact that you had all

[01:18:42] this buildup and that she can finally get it and then this very dark thing that happens and you it doesn't work out like I mean that feels very much in line with the very dark deadpan humor

[01:18:55] sensibility of lanthimos and I found that it worked really well here oh absolutely it's so lanthimosian but on top of that it's all seated in that character and that's what made me love

[01:19:10] that ending so much is that like of course this would happen to her because this is exactly the way in which she has been reckless throughout the whole movie and she's like jumping outside the gate

[01:19:26] oh my god i'm already sweating that scene is so hard to watch and the camera's just like lingering it's great I mean there's no other scene in the movie where a character like like when jesse plummets in the first story like begs raymond and raymond's like you're embarrassing

[01:19:44] yourself stop it like it's played for comedy we're here that scene with her behind the gate and emma stone's crying her eyes out like I you know I understand the comedy to be found within it after

[01:19:59] they walk away and she's like still yelling out to them but there were uh moments in that where I genuinely really really fell for her and I was like wow I can't believe I'm like rooting for

[01:20:10] this person who's a part of a cult to get back into the cold I think that scene is still supposed to be kind of fun to be honest with you like very dark and disturbing but I think knowing

[01:20:20] lanthimos that scene was absolutely supposed to be played for comedy I'm also like wondering if anyone else felt this way but I'm trying to like I've also been thinking about Jesse Plummett's

[01:20:31] characters role in this like because when they're in the motel and he's like you can tell me if you're visiting your family like I won't tell anyone but then like when they go pick her up

[01:20:43] for after she stays a night at her ex's house it's like the way that he's like standing it's like I can't tell if he was in on it or like their relationship and then like when he's eating his

[01:20:58] like cereal as she's outside the gates like I thought their dynamic was really interesting he's like definitely more the straight face of the two I love that they were wearing these pantsuits with sandals um and like she's definitely more idealistic and I think that's what adds into like

[01:21:16] the recklessness where he is very much like what are you doing like I don't know I thought their dynamic was really fascinating um as we saw it kind of go through different iterations I mean

[01:21:28] I think it's I wouldn't say that there's like a mystery to be solved here necessarily I would definitely say that as long as they are together in this cult they care for each other you know

[01:21:42] there's a scene where he's uh got a fever laying in bed and she I think offers to go get his food or something like that for him um something along those lines right and you can just see that they

[01:21:54] have a good working dynamic they trust each other you know but you're right the minute that she's no longer a part of that group or a line has been crossed he's there is no sympathy like like

[01:22:07] essentially she is dead to him and that's it you know and I've I I really really like that approach a lot because once again it added to the heartbreaking uh quality of the story for me of

[01:22:22] how here's somebody who was a very central component of this story for us as an audience it really starts off feeling like this is going to be like a number two hander between her and

[01:22:32] Plemons and then he kind of fades into the background you realize then this whole story is dominated by Emma Stone and primarily about the Emily character but I think that that divide

[01:22:43] happening like that uh the way that it does here is only accentuating once again like the theme of this movie overall is that there is a line that for some people just cannot be crossed when it

[01:22:57] comes to their devotion to another person and this cult has outlined their rules such that if anyone is deemed contaminated they are essentially dead to the rest of the community yeah I would I would definitely agree with that um like this whole ensemble is just so

[01:23:19] stellar in the way that they interpret these characters and like immediately it's almost feels like they're finding them as we're finding them and I think that's like the beauty of a your ghost lanthanos film of just watching it unravel

[01:23:34] in ways that you can't really fathom and I just love I don't know there's something about the ending of this one that it just is to me is so satisfying and so funny and so like very tongue

[01:23:45] in cheek even like Margaret Qualley is really great in this I definitely want to see more of her and your ghost's work um as she's playing these two twins but I don't know they're just so funny I do

[01:23:59] I'm very fascinated by the cult like I would love a movie about them because there's just so much going on there with the interior of their home and what they believe in and you know it's just so

[01:24:14] so funny to me I did love Margaret Qualley in this too I think that she is a kind of an underrated aspect I feel like a lot of people don't talk about her contribution that much but I think

[01:24:24] that she fits into every one of these stories seamlessly she's such a great performer and you know seeing this movie when we did that it just felt like her presence and can between this

[01:24:35] and the substance was you know very pronounced for us especially so it was even easier to recognize how talented she is but I think that she's great in in this movie too I think that she is just as

[01:24:46] good as like Jesse Plemons and Emma Stone and Willem Dafoe I really loved her contribution to this film yeah I love her too I think she's really great I think in general she has a lot of screen

[01:24:59] presence and generally makes really interesting choices as a performer but here I was very very into everything that she was doing I love that every character even the twins that she played they each felt completely distinct from each other and I don't think everyone in this cast

[01:25:19] white got to that point she was so much fun to see in every story whenever she popped up the scene where she tells Emily I have a solution to your problem I knew exactly as soon as she said

[01:25:35] that what was gonna happen and then it happened and it was beautiful god the piano notes as soon as she dives into perfect my god perfect oh jesus I this is a good moment for me to also

[01:25:51] mention too the black and white flashbacks throughout wouldn't mind seeing more of those I thought those were all really well done yeah but this is and it's not so much a problem I want

[01:26:03] to be very clear about that I was a little slightly just slightly underwhelmed by the cinematography of this movie compared to what Robbie Ryan has done with your ghosts on his previous films it's not bad it just didn't measure up to what I had seen before I even

[01:26:22] think the lobster and killing the secret deer have stronger cinematography than this but that's just me I actually really liked the cinematography in in a thematic way of it being almost so plain

[01:26:39] to counteract the alien qualities of the screenplay I think it if it had gone the full stylistic route of a the favorite or poor things that would have been just way too much and I

[01:26:56] think we had just gone even as stylistic as those you know really high pov shots and killing of a sacred deer or the the way the camera moves in dog tooth I think that could have made the film

[01:27:12] more interesting to look at but I also think it would have drawn way too much attention to itself as oh we are being we are doing cinematography now what the what is going on with the stories here

[01:27:29] and the performances is really all this needs it doesn't need so many bells and whistles on the technical aspects for me in order for it to work I really love the shot in the first sequence

[01:27:42] where um Jesse Plymon's character goes to the pool to see if his wife is there and just like the way that the camera follows him from the other side it's I just feel like a lot of the decisions

[01:27:53] are so seamless and like very observant but like not too in your face where you can just like all at these performances going on because I think this the performances are so rich and so forefront

[01:28:07] and center that it's nice that a lot of the decisions on the production side just really allow them to flourish and like be able to play in such a confined space that doesn't really have

[01:28:21] a lot of thought into it like you don't really have to think much into what is happening around them but like what is happening like what are they saying like I feel like you can really

[01:28:31] be in tune to these conversations without too much happening around yeah and I think it they between Robbie and your ghost I think they know exactly how to shift between shot scales

[01:28:48] they know when to go for a medium shot they know when to go for a long far away shot they know when to go for an extreme close-up and there there are some really cool tracking shots in this there's

[01:29:02] one near the um near the beginning of the second part where it's like tracking all the way down this hallway and it's on the conversation between Jesse Plymon's and Hong Chao and it ends like the

[01:29:16] the shot stops moving when they go to hug each other and there are a lot of moments like that that like where the blocking and choice of shot scales and when the camera moves or doesn't

[01:29:32] really makes emphases on these moments of connection between the characters that I think is incredibly smart even if it's not as exciting as it is in a lot of your ghost's other films all right what I want to do now is I do want to get over to

[01:29:51] final thoughts here this could be for all three stories so any final thoughts that you have on kinds of kindness something that we didn't mention that you want to bring up or something you want to reiterate and we will toss it over first to Josh Parm.

[01:30:08] I'm a grown-up me too yep me too but you know these days being a grown-up can really suck luckily we're grown-ups who grew up in the coolest generation we had video arcades and also some of

[01:30:18] the best tv movies ever made we lived the origin of awesome consumer electronics the list goes on and on yep generation x exactly and we're gen x grown-up every week the gen x grown-up podcast

[01:30:29] explores media tech toys games and more from both yesterday and today through the eyes of generation xers who absolutely love that stuff you can find us on itunes or wherever you get your podcasts or find us on our website genxgrownup.com

[01:30:46] all right I think that was good enough I hope so man I'm tired who listens to a promo on a podcast and then goes and listens to a different podcast right I've never done it

[01:30:56] that's right a couple things yeah at the end um I feel like we didn't mention Hong Chao all that much and I guess on the one hand I sort of understand a little bit because I don't think

[01:31:09] any character that she plays leaves the greatest impact in any one of those stories but I still want to give her credit for doing a decent job in this ensemble I think that the last one

[01:31:21] her the role that she is playing is much more significant so therefore I think that's the one where she does make the bigger impact and I did like her a good deal I think that she has just a

[01:31:31] great comedic presence in all of these stories and another one who actually seems to really understand the the lanthomose sensibility when it comes to that deadpan humor so even though I don't

[01:31:41] think she is utilized to a great degree in any one of these sections I still liked her enough and I would still want to give her like a proper shout out to say even though it's not the most

[01:31:52] important section of these stories I think that she still does a really good job with what she's given in the first story when she slaps Jesse Plemons I was living for her in that moment especially

[01:32:08] the fact that Plemons has to break that news to her that is so horrible it's awful no question about it and she responds exactly how she should respond yeah also too I have to say her licking

[01:32:25] the body of anybody and then saying like the host is not contaminated or whatever it is she says oh my gosh and she says it like so cheerfully oh my gosh great yeah great really good um and then

[01:32:41] the other thing I just wanted to mention a very small thing uh there is a another cameo from somebody who also had a very brief walk-on role in poor things and that's the composer

[01:32:55] he also shows up in this which I could tell that Matt I don't know if you had this feeling but when he showed up and the fact that nobody else recognized it was like okay well nobody else

[01:33:04] here is Oscar obsessed because obviously we know who he is but nobody else recognizes this man on screen so but I really like that and I hope that that's another thing that continues in their

[01:33:15] collaboration I love to see the composer having a cameo in the movie I just find that so delightful this wouldn't have anything to do with the fact you just like looking at Jersey

[01:33:25] Confederates would it by any chance I mean what of it that what of it when like composers never get that kind of screen time I just love seeing it's true any below the line talent actually

[01:33:36] showing up in a movie I just find that to be very fun and to be fair most composers are not that cute but that is true um I I did fail to bring up earlier um so maybe we should bring this up

[01:33:50] Hunter Schaefer has one scene oh my god in the movie as uh Anna yeah somebody's gonna mention that it's like but it's one scene right right so that might be a disappointment I liked her though

[01:34:01] I thought she was very good in that one yeah she's good but it's literally one scene in the movie like that's it hopefully it's a signal of maybe more collaborations with flam-famous to

[01:34:13] come in the future I would be here for that yeah hopefully so I did find it very amusing that just some of the supporting characters like how little they would be featured in certain

[01:34:26] sections like Joe Alwyn just being like the appraisal in the first one right that whole collection of things he's got like what 30 seconds of screen time came in did his bit got to sit sit home for a couple weeks until they called him again

[01:34:42] amazing I like you know selfishly I do wish that some of the other supporting characters like could have gotten more here and there to foe I think it's equal across all three yeah he has a little

[01:34:54] bit less to do in the second part but pretty much equal yeah but that's the nature of anthologies in my opinion you know like not everybody's gonna get equal time yeah and it's a bit of

[01:35:07] a bummer in some cases but you know you make the most of what you got yeah I do have a question about the second one now that I'm thinking about it in I think it's the black and white sequence

[01:35:20] yes the dogs are real no not not the dog it's like in the middle of it where they flash back to the island and she's like eating something yes like no is that a person or like that's what

[01:35:33] I took it to be yeah guys lake and I'm like without him like is there a connection there and so yeah I thought it was a cannibalism thing they were yeah they cut off her finger and her

[01:35:45] liver I was like oh like she is this going back to like what she learned on the island is chocolate a substitution for something like I don't know because she said she needed something sweet but

[01:35:56] then she said she's been eating chocolate the whole time and so there's just like little things like that where it's like am I picking up on the wrong direction or is there something else to this

[01:36:06] that I have I don't know I've just been thinking about that sequence rewatch so I was like oh my god did she eat his leg and that's why it has to be amputated because it was

[01:36:20] it was just like I love that they're just like little glimpses of things and you're like do I need to think more about this like that was one of them they talk about like each story they talk

[01:36:30] about eggs and pregnancy and they all have like dream sequences and I thought it was really interesting to use those little bits to connect them all other than just like the greater theme

[01:36:41] of like what you would do for love and how people can get crazy from it because I think it just speaks to how he does his dialogue in this way that is it's like how a conversation should sound

[01:36:54] but the way they deliver it it's like is that how a conversation should sound because a lot of it is very I don't know monotone and just nothing too crazy but I love that there was just little

[01:37:06] connections sprinkled through of just ordinary things that they feel heightened but they they're just you know the everyday which I I just love how he does that yeah I completely agree in

[01:37:19] fact actually as I'm listening to you here too you know I know I mentioned earlier about how so much of kinds of kindness got got me thinking a lot about its themes and had me asking questions

[01:37:32] as this discussion has kind of gone on here and we're talking more about diving into these details and asking these questions there's a part of me that wants to like kind of just throw my hands up

[01:37:43] in the air and say you know what maybe it really is all just vibes I think so I think it's just like something I explained it to my friend I was like I feel like it's just something you're not

[01:37:52] supposed to get and that's okay you just enjoy the time and you laugh and maybe you cry and maybe you get into it but I mean the trailer was vibes the movie was vibes and for me that's all

[01:38:06] that I need all right Josh anything else no that was about it for me all right Dan Bear how about you final thoughts yeah I don't know how I felt about the the black and white cutaways

[01:38:21] I just don't know I don't know if we needed them in the movie I thought there were some that were amusing like the moment where I think it was like a dinner flashback in the second story

[01:38:33] where Emma Stone just has like this disgusted look on her face yeah because of what they're eating that one was that one was good but then there are like random like in the first story

[01:38:44] there is one where like we cut away to black and white shot of like the weevils on the trees that one of them is talking about and I'm like I don't think I really needed that I think some of them

[01:38:58] work but some of them was just like I don't know I really cannot emphasize enough the that extreme close-up shot of Willem Dafoe and Emma Stone kissing is just really it's something all right

[01:39:15] no I was like the first two I was like oh they have such a cute paternal daughter relationship and then it gets to that and I was like oh nevermind no no yeah it's definitely something

[01:39:25] more than that uh I'm trying to remember what it reminded me of oh you know what it reminded me of Dan you'll know this Josh you probably knows too Jillian I don't know if you know this

[01:39:34] um it reminded me of the poster for Gaspar Noé's film Love oh yeah oh yeah yeah not the first thing I think about when I think about that movie though also why did Josh why do we have the exact same reaction yeah

[01:39:54] uh anyway hey yeah but I can see that yeah how old is Willem Dafoe now oh like 60s 60s gotta be in the 60s yeah he's 68 years old okay this man's a senior citizen the man looks good

[01:40:09] yeah I was about to say he's naked laying in the bed all spread out and I was like goddamn you'll take any opportunity to hang it out I mean if you know anything about Willem Dafoe I'm surprised he doesn't do it more often yeah like anti-christ baby

[01:40:26] oh wow and Last Temptation of Christ and a couple of others yeah anyway that's neither here nor there I really love the sense of the buildup of tension and then release in the score

[01:40:42] I think that it does a really really perfect job of that um and of heightening those moments in the film and I'm just gonna say it for me the MVPs of this ensemble are Emma Stone and Willem Dafoe

[01:40:58] oh you didn't like Plemons I think that he's good but he's one of the ones for me where the three characters he played didn't feel differentiated enough for me in his performance

[01:41:14] where it felt like they were all kind of the same character more or less whereas with the other with Emma and Willem specifically each of those characters felt like vibrantly different from the other okay anything else I was a little surprised not gonna lie when the movie started

[01:41:39] with Sweet Dreams I don't know why but just because they used it in the trailer I just didn't expect it to be the opening of the movie oh I have an expectation now that anytime I hear

[01:41:49] a song in a trailer I think it is going to usually show up in the movie um but yeah I think Joshua will testify to this when we saw it at Cannes people were really excited for obvious

[01:42:02] reasons but then when that song came on the audience applauded and then everybody started clapping on beat to the song and it was like the best way to just kind of ease us into the movie

[01:42:17] it was such a vibe and I kind of wish the movie kept that vibe and momentum up all throughout because it almost seemed like we peaked it turned the opening credits almost in terms of

[01:42:28] the audience's energy you know a little bit yeah people it was actually very fun that as soon as it started and you you heard your rhythmics it's like people were actually applauding and clapping

[01:42:39] on beat to the song and definitely set up an expectation of an energy level that that movie was never going to be at I think we were just all like desperate for some little levity at that point

[01:42:52] probably hit the festival I think maybe that had more of a motivation as to why people are doing that and also sweet dreams is just a fucking banger like yeah I was gonna say there's something

[01:43:02] else to be said too for when you have like a film by yorgos lanthimos flash up on the screen and when it does you hear the foam of like the bass and everything of like the the drop of the song

[01:43:16] and it's like I don't know there was just like something like really like impactful that if you were watching this with like a really good sound system it just it sent a jolt through your body I

[01:43:27] I hate admitting that the opening credits was like the most memorable aspect of this whole experience for me but oh no what are you gonna do in fact actually all the credits to each one of

[01:43:41] the stories all stood out to me yeah I think would just like hate you and then immediately you go on to the next story without really processing or thinking about what you just

[01:43:54] watched like I like that aspect of it with the edit because it was just like okay we're keep we're keeping this the story going actually that is a question I had for you guys Matt and Josh

[01:44:05] when you saw this at can was there applause in between each story or did they hold for the end they held for the end yeah I actually imagined Dan watching this with you

[01:44:21] I could imagine wholeheart oh well no this did happen the bit with the dogs I got my what the fuck Dan bear reaction moment yeah I think there were like some yeah acknowledging laughter chuckle but you know not like applauding or anything I think people were

[01:44:39] just amused at seeing these dogs in these very weird positions that was ridiculous yeah a little too ridiculous in my opinion it's like I was once again I don't know what we're supposed to be

[01:44:54] kidding from this moment but at least it was slightly amusing I'll give it that yeah it was anything else the bit with the video just that is maybe the biggest laugh of any movie I've had

[01:45:10] got in a long time yeah because the setup is so so good you don't know what he is referring to but he's being so sincere about it and everybody's else is like patting him on the back oh maybe

[01:45:24] some other time you know I don't know I don't think that's a good idea and I don't know about the rest of you but I assumed when they started saying that it's not a good idea I naturally

[01:45:33] assumed that it was his wedding video could you imagine it was not that yeah that or just something to do with him and Liz I don't know like on vacation or something I don't know something

[01:45:47] some some cherished memory I mean it definitely was a cherished memory I'm sure clearly did they mention how long she was gone for I think they said a couple of I don't know I don't think it

[01:46:00] was weeks I think it was days I don't remember like I wonder if they've watched that video at least like once before that together they definitely have no it's it's definitely alluded

[01:46:12] to in the dialogue that this is not the first time something like this has happened like it's too casual like they've definitely done it before yeah they I think they say at one point that

[01:46:23] like the last time they watched it it was awkward or something yeah god oh man incredible can we just take a beat to acknowledge how much we love that these actors are just willing to do

[01:46:43] anything for land for most you wouldn't I'm just saying no I it makes me admire all these actors all the more which is why when I then see other actors just making very safe conventional

[01:46:56] choices in Hollywood where they just collect the paycheck and you know I'm like Dan you'll get your freak on do a land for most film you know what I just realized what this is a movie about movie

[01:47:08] making and Willem Dafoe is the your girl sent the most avatar in each story it's way too late in this conversation for you to be bringing this up Dan I'm sorry I only just realized it Jesus

[01:47:24] Christ but think about it like I am thinking about it and I'm only connecting this in one storyline if the control in the first storyline yes the maternal qualities and the second and the worry

[01:47:41] and all that and then the third it's how everyone is literally worshipping him oh my god oh that's good that's good Dan I like that somebody should write a paper on that not me okay last time I'm asking anything else no okay all right because we've literally said

[01:48:07] everything that I was gonna say so you know what you know what one one thing one thing I really did not at first understand or get the purpose of the speeding purple

[01:48:21] what was it was it a challenger like a dog yes it was a dodge challenger yeah I don't really know cars that well but I but I recognize that and then the ending happened and I was like okay thank like

[01:48:33] thank you for making this relevant now so kudos to them for doing that otherwise I was just like oh I'm just don't just like driving a fast car like I don't know I don't really get the like I

[01:48:44] get the appeal but it just seems like a cheap appeal and then they found a way to work it into the story and then I was like okay good stuff there's a lot of good car action in this film

[01:48:55] Jillian making it sound like it's fast and furious over here was like the first one is the car in the beginning like a jeep or something and then they have like a really nice she has driving like a huge truck from home from the hospital

[01:49:09] and the second one and then this one they have the Dodge Challenger and then whatever that car is that will of defoe pulls up in and then they have the boat like a lot of good product placement

[01:49:24] oh and Emma Stone dancing to bad bitch I mean that's where I thought the movie was going to end actually I thought that was going to be where they put the credits because that was

[01:49:33] her triumphant moment yeah but it's your ghost lanthimos exactly I was kind of waiting for like people at my screening to think that was the end and leave yeah did anybody have any walkouts

[01:49:47] uh you know what like I've never been in a movie where so many people leave to go to the bathroom like it was like at least five people like people would come back but it was like masses of people

[01:49:59] walking out and then walking back in and like I can't think of a movie not even like I don't know avatar or Oppenheimer like a you know an epic where people are like taking a break but

[01:50:10] this one there was a lot of people that just kept like cycling in and out I mean this was can so there were definitely walkouts I feel like I feel like every screening I go to it can there's always

[01:50:22] at least one walkout no matter what the movie is even well but you never see them because you're right in the front row though hey I can tell because when I turn around I see the empty seats

[01:50:34] uh but it is true yes I do sit front row which everyone's always like you're crazy why do you do such a thing you are crazy dan anyway I could not sit in the front row you know I could not

[01:50:47] sit front row for all those movies my neck would get out I just sat in the front row for horizon and that was the time oh all right great out of 10. I really like this movie I like this movie

[01:51:02] quite a bit um because the areas where it's really strong more than make up for the areas where I find some faults I found it to be entertaining I found it to be uh you know

[01:51:14] darkly amusing performances are all on point for what lanthimos wants as I mentioned earlier all these actors are extremely giving and that goes a very very long way for me uh but it just doesn't

[01:51:30] rise to the level of some of his best work in my opinion in fact I've even seen some folks react to this saying that they think that this movie is like actively bad which I don't agree with but

[01:51:44] I could understand that take um especially given some of the arguments that I've heard about it and you know we were not all so effusive in our praise here so I guess to a certain extent it

[01:51:55] makes sense but it's you know it's overlong it's sexy it's bizarre it draws you in I found it to just have like this very seductive quality to it that I just can't shake I had a blast um so I'm

[01:52:08] gonna just land at a 7 out of 10. I wish I was in the love it territory you know with an 8 or higher but couldn't quite get there Dan what about you yeah right after watching I think I logged it on

[01:52:24] Letterboxd as an 8 out of 10 because while there are significant issues with it particularly the pacing in the second half which is the most difficult portion of the film to get through anyway

[01:52:38] there is enough about it that really spoke to me that I really enjoyed that I thought was really well done that I was so intrigued by that I kind of gave it the benefit of the doubt a bit but

[01:52:51] I saw it like less than a week ago and there are large portions of it that have already faded from my mind leaving just like the really big moments and they feel like there's a lot of confusion

[01:53:07] that has just like faded for me so I'm a little bit lower now than I was initially but I'm still at a very strong 7 out of 10. Jillian what about you? I'm gonna give it

[01:53:20] an 8.5 out of 10. We don't do 0.5s. I'll give it a 9. Oh okay there you go. I'll round up um I definitely do think though like on a re-watch it's a little bit harder because it's like

[01:53:40] you know going into it I think that's the like it's it's a film where you're like oh I wish I could experience this for the first time again because it's just so like unexpected and goes

[01:53:49] so many different routes and you don't really know what's gonna happen and like I definitely walked out like I don't know I had like a rush like I was addicted like I'm still very much addicted

[01:53:58] to just the aura of it there's just something about it that I think you can connect to um but I don't know like the re-watch was a little bit hard I think just because you know like the

[01:54:14] beats so well and you're just kind of waiting for it and I think like what if the audience doesn't respond to certain beats then you're like does this really work and so it might also be dependent on

[01:54:25] whichever audience you see it with but like even going to this podcast and talking about certain moments I'm like like I replay a lot of the scenes or the pieces of dialogue how it was delivered in

[01:54:36] my head and I just think it's like the funniest thing in like a movie that you would not think is like a comedy like to me I thought it was a really good comedy um but I like it like I think

[01:54:49] it gives a lot of optimism for where Yorgos goes next and he has Jossie Plemons and Emma Stone again at that adaptation at Focus Features so I'm excited to see you know this gutting relationship

[01:55:04] between the three of them continue to grow but I had a lot of fun I think it definitely it throws a wrench within like Superhero Summer and Blockbuster Summer and just gives like a different

[01:55:14] palette cleanser and I'm glad that they released it during the summertime because it's just like I don't know I want a kinds of kindness-esque summer and I had fun. Kinds of summer basically

[01:55:26] yeah I like it Josh what about you? Out of can I was a 7 out of 10 and that's where I am still at with this movie I think it's good I did enjoy myself with it I don't think I responded to it

[01:55:40] quite as strongly as some of Lanthimos's previous movies but there's enough in here that I did enjoy myself it doesn't add up to a great movie to me but it's still one that I was very much entertained

[01:55:52] by at the end of the day. Okay and then as far as any kind of awards potential for Kinds of Kindness a lot of people were asking this question out of can I got so many DMs about this and then when I

[01:56:05] posted my review for this on the site I specifically did not put anything in for Oscar prospects and everybody then was like whoa whoa whoa hold up hold up now what do you mean no

[01:56:18] screenplay? No Jesse Plemons? To which I said no. Jillian you're our guest here do you really think Ampis will touch this with a fuck 20 fuck 50 100 foot pole? I like I also in my little

[01:56:37] for our off-screen central where we put like our prospects like I did I put none because I was just like I can't like to me Poor Things weirdly was like a very sanitized movie like very Hollywood

[01:56:50] very like something they would grasp towards and I feel like this one as we're seeing with audience reactions like I have friends that I was like oh you're gonna love it and then they gave it like a

[01:57:00] half a star and I'm like well I don't think it's for anyone everyone and I think it's a bit of a hard sell even as like I mean I work in the industry and like I haven't heard anyone talking

[01:57:10] about this film at all and people like are really on a Jesse Plemons wave right now so I just don't think it's that's where its audience is going to be found I think it's going to be a lot of a I

[01:57:22] don't know like a normal maybe like film goer audience or people I think it's it would be a really fun film if I like if you for people to stumble upon and be like what is this experience

[01:57:33] and like that type of thing but I was really thinking hard about it and I'm like I don't know which categories this would go in like score that could be cool but I think there's unless it's

[01:57:44] like a really bleak year I don't think it's getting in anywhere I think we were all just like starving for some sort of Oscar contender to emerge from can that every time I would come

[01:57:57] forward and say yeah this doesn't have potential yeah like I don't see this happening I think everyone was just like almost trying to like beat it out of me just admit it admit that this has

[01:58:06] potential god damn it we need something and it was like nah I just I really don't see it well and especially something like this that coming from you know a director and several stars who

[01:58:18] if we're just recently on the academy's radar in pretty big ways I get the impulse to want to think that this could do similarly but it's just way too weird in a non-Oscar friendly way

[01:58:39] and you want to know something too I want to be very clear about this I love that land of the most hot off of the success of two best picture nominations two best director nominations Oscar

[01:58:53] wins for best actress across both films I love that he just decided to follow that up with the most unfriendly ampest movie almost humanly possible the guy just doesn't care and that's

[01:59:07] why we love him he's not doing this for the awards recognition he's not doing this for the box office sure he wants people to see his movie that's another thing entirely that's not so much

[01:59:16] box office per se but I love that he is beating to the beat of his own drum I love that this is a guy who he you know whoever it's just by sheer luck that dog tooth and the lobster were embraced and

[01:59:32] then the favorite and poor things we call it to Tony McNamara touch I don't know but it's like this guy has never made his movies to be an awards you know player and I think it's perfectly okay to

[01:59:48] acknowledge that his films don't have to be awards contenders to have merit no film has to be an awards contender I like that he followed it up with this because like I don't know you know

[02:00:01] some directors they would go on to I don't know like a really big IP like really epic like something really yeah and you kind of lose like you know the ethos of what makes you relate to

[02:00:13] this person's work or like you feel like okay I feel like I lost my connection with them of why their films are so special so I love that he was like you know what I did two rounds of this

[02:00:23] I went through the cycle you know they picked up some wins that were really cool and it's like let me get back to doing whatever I want to do without feeling and I like I don't know it doesn't seem

[02:00:34] like people are putting the pressure on him to be like okay like let's get the studio another one like it just seems like people are letting him figure out what he wants to do and like giving him

[02:00:44] the backing and the support and I feel like it's really special when you can see that with the filmmaker I don't think he would like ever sell out like I don't think he'd be like oh I'm

[02:00:52] directing like I don't know the Hercules movie he could but like you know it's just he feels very true to himself and no matter how much you know notoriety and fame he's gotten over the last few

[02:01:05] years with the Tony McNamara era like I like that he's been very true to himself and his work. Yeah 100% agreed there was like a question a can there was like a little bit of a question mark of

[02:01:21] is this going to be pure return to form for Lampemos or is this going to be kind of like this new era of Lampemos like trying to mix in with the old Lampemos and

[02:01:33] I did not get a sense of that I definitely got a sense more of the former where it was like okay this feels more like that dog tooth Alps era you know it's probably like a deprogramming of like

[02:01:46] you know stepping away from that not that this isn't prestige but stepping away from that level of commercial commercial ability and like like refining your steps. And you know what's really cool too I mean I granted the movie hasn't made a tremendous

[02:02:01] amount of money as of this recording it's made like a little bit over 1 million dollars but I'll tell you this this movie is definitely going to get a boost due to the success of Poor

[02:02:11] Things and how recent it was so I'm sure Searchlight is probably thinking hey you know what whatever it ends up making it ends up making but I think they know deep down like

[02:02:22] they kind of lucked out here releasing it so soon after Poor Things just had this wave of success at the box office critically with the Academy because otherwise if this movie didn't have that it would definitely be I think getting less eyeballs on it for sure.

[02:02:39] I think it's made more than Poor Things so far and it's run. No it hasn't no way. Something like and it's made some it's made more money than Poor Things and like one of its stats of it could be like the limited release or personal.

[02:02:52] Oh I didn't even talk about overall I was like no way. Oh no not overall but it's like it's on it's on a good track for a movie that doesn't have the same like I don't know I had people that are like oh can I watch this with

[02:03:06] my parents and I was like yeah like well I watched Poor Things with my parents and I was like I wouldn't have done that but if you're willing to like if that's what you do with Poor Things

[02:03:15] then go ahead and I feel like those those questions are really interesting or like okay I guess we all have different levels of like what is okay to us I guess or things that push us over

[02:03:28] the edge and so I thought that aspect was interesting where people like yeah I watch Poor Things with my family but I wouldn't watch this with my family and like okay. Let me ask you guys this question. This movie has a budget of 15 million dollars.

[02:03:39] Do you think it's going to make more than its budget? Possibly. I am not incredibly optimistic about that I'm going to be honest. How much did Poor Things make? Didn't Poor Things make over 20? Poor Things made 117 million. Jesus.

[02:03:58] Yeah yeah but that had Oscar prestige on it and it was elevated into that realm. This really does feel like a favor they did to Lanthimos to be like you've done some really

[02:04:10] good stuff for us we'll give you some money to go ahead and make your weird movie that we know it's not going to make any money but you know it keeps you happy you'll make more movies for us later that's what this feels like to me.

[02:04:22] I don't think this really has any prospects in the awards conversation. Yes, Jesse Plemons winning Best Actor is a good thing for it but winning an acting prize at Cannes has a very spotty history in terms of translating the Oscars so I don't think that's happening.

[02:04:39] I don't think this is really going to be a screenplay contender. I think this is just they wanted to do this weird little thing and they gave them the money to do it and that's about as far as it's going.

[02:04:51] One thing I will say about Plemons though really fast. I could see a Globe nomination for comedy musical. Yeah, I could see that. Maybe, yeah. And I could see certain critics groups if they decided to put him in supporting maybe throwing a bone to him.

[02:05:10] Yeah, I feel like Jesse Plemons is just like undeniable and like people's love of him and it's like when he does good like people just rally around that and it's like really nice

[02:05:21] to see him having this moment of being like a leading man almost and I think it's going to be like a big moment for him and where his career goes after this. I'm really curious though because like the flip side of there being so many more eyeballs

[02:05:37] on this movie than there were on like The Lobster, Killing of a Sacred Deer, etc. Is that like a lot of people who are going to see this movie are going because they liked

[02:05:50] The Poor Things, they liked The Favorite, they liked maybe Hour of the Dog, Jesse Plemons' most recent work and this is very much not those movies and I'm very interested and curious to see how negative general audiences go on this movie.

[02:06:13] To quote Jesse Plemons' character in Civil War, well, what kind of a cinephile are you? That'll do it here for our review of Kinds of Kindness here on the Next Best Picture podcast. Jillian, tell everyone that's listening right now where they can find you

[02:06:28] on the internet and thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. I would never not want to talk about Kinds of Kindness because I feel like no one I know in real life has seen it so I was very

[02:06:40] happy to be able to just come on and discuss with all of you. You can find me at offscreencentral.com with reviews and interviews and you can find me on Twitter at Jillian Chilly and Letterboxd at Jillian Chilly.

[02:06:58] Thank you once again. Dan Baer, where can they find you on the internet? You can find me on Twitter at DanceandDan on film and you can find me on Letterboxd and post at DanceandDan. And Josh Parham. You can find me on Twitter and Letterboxd at JRParham.

[02:07:13] And you can find me at Next Best Picture. Thank you so much everyone for listening to the Next Best Picture podcast. We are proud to be part of the Evergreen Podcast Network and you can subscribe to us anywhere where you subscribe to podcasts.

[02:07:25] Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and let us know what you think of the show. We really appreciate your feedback and your support, which you can also lend on over at Patreon. For $1 minimum a month, you will get some exclusive podcast content from us.

[02:07:41] Thank you all so much for listening as always and we will see you all next time.

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