Interviews With "Horizon: An American Saga" Stars Sam Worthington, Sienna Miller, Jamie Campbell Bower & The Costume Designer

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[00:01:23] You are listening to the Next Best Picture Podcast and these are my interviews with the stars from the new film Horizon, an American Saga Chapter One. Sam Worthington, Sienna Miller, Jamie Campbell Bower and the film's costume designer Lisa Lavasse.

[00:01:48] I'm being joined right now by Sam Worthington and Sienna Miller, the two stars from Kevin Costner's epic western film Horizon, an American Saga. This is for Chapter One. For the record,

[00:02:30] there will be a Chapter Two coming out in a couple of weeks. But I want to start off by asking both of you together, how did this come about? Because this is such a large scale production

[00:02:39] that Kevin's been thinking about for such a long time. Did he call you directly? Did you audition? How did this all happen? I got a call from my agent saying, Kevin Costner wants to talk to you, which was obviously a hugely exciting prospect. I've been

[00:02:54] an enormous admirer of his forever. And I got sent four very dense, heavy scripts that I read, assuming it was a TV series because there were four of them. And we got on the phone and he said,

[00:03:06] no, I'm making four movies. And we talked and we got along and he talked about character and then he ended it by saying, will you go west with me? Which was thrilling. Yeah, it was a no brainer

[00:03:19] for me. Wow, so you guys get these four scripts, he tells you about his vision to essentially take long form storytelling and bring it to theaters in this way where yes, we've had stuff like the MCU

[00:03:35] and interconnected universes. And I mean, Sam, you're also doing similar stuff with Avatar across so many different films. But this feels very unique, and rather different in today's landscape, and especially for the Western genre. So when you hear about the ambition of something like this,

[00:03:51] obviously, it's exciting to want to be a part of but I want to just get your comments on where you think like the industry might be heading towards when it comes to blurring the lines

[00:04:01] between television and film? That's a very complex question. I think you can't look at it that way. Look, every every filmmaker is going to use a medium, whichever medium is best to suit their

[00:04:13] storytelling. In this aspect, I think, you know, Kevin's thing is more akin to a novel. That's how it reads when you first read it, a lot of characters going in and out, some disappearing

[00:04:24] forever, some new ones entering later in the story. And so this novelistic approach, though we consider long form to be on TV, you can, you know, this kind of stuff was done with Towering Inferno,

[00:04:36] Poseidon Avenger had multitude of character arcs going on. So he's just using this format. And I think if you look at it, as you said, it's chapter one is definitely has that holistic approach. And I

[00:04:47] think it's a very interesting kind of way to look at it because it read like a Dickens novel, bunch of characters or no real plot more a journey kind of. And also Kevin's such a cinephile, you know, I think his he's happiest on the set, but he's also

[00:05:02] happiest in a dark room with strangers having the collective experience of watching a movie. And this film is so exquisitely shot. It doesn't even look real. And we barely used any artificial light.

[00:05:14] So I think in order to really get the full experience, he could have done this for TV, but you've got to see this on a big screen. It's just it's majestic.

[00:05:23] 30 years of his career is in the cinema, you know, TV he came late to. So you got to that's that's the language that he loves is the language of the cinematic scope.

[00:05:33] Yeah. But also to I mean, for you guys, as actors, I imagine also having more material to work with and crafting those arcs over a longer period of time, that must be an actor's dream to

[00:05:45] be able to have that kind of time given to that, to that character, right? I mean, I feel like the movie is really the star of the movie. I don't know that there is any one

[00:05:54] lead. It's it's basically people's journey, and the foundation of whatever America is today. Um, yeah, of course, there's an arc my character, you know, we see a lot of her life and the scripts

[00:06:07] are kind of evolving. It's unclear what will happen in for particularly I mean, I have an idea, but not not locked by any means. But yeah, it's, it's always nice to have the space and time to not

[00:06:18] have things packed in to give you know, there's there's room to ponder. Yeah. And you both of your characters eventually do collide and come together through the course of chapter one, which makes me very excited to see where things will head, of course, in the

[00:06:33] subsequent chapters. But Sienna, I want to ask you about that scene, particularly in the house during the attack that takes place, because that just seemed like a degree of controlled chaos happening all over. You've got the embers from the fire, you've got pyrotechnics and other debris

[00:06:50] flying everywhere and such. Can you just tell me what it was like shooting that scene? I mean, everything you see is real. There was nothing put in in post, it was happening in real time, which made for a really intense and adrenaline fuelled week.

[00:07:03] It was boiling hot in this house. It was the one time we were kind of inside on a stage, people falling through roofs exactly like you said, burning embers, I got burnt, people, you know,

[00:07:13] it's it's real and loud and exciting. There are squibs going off. But all of that adrenaline really helps, I think, to create the situation that you're in and and also to empathise with

[00:07:26] what it must have been like, how terrifying for women and children and fathers and knowing that you're fighting a fight that you're looking like you're going to lose. But we did it again. It was

[00:07:37] days of work and kind of weirdly very rewarding. Yeah. And Sam, your character, I don't want to reveal anything necessarily about chapter two per se, but it's like from Mrs. Kittred's point of

[00:07:51] view, I could see how in this time of great loss she would gravitate towards this man who is very kind and a comfort for her. But what would you say for your character? What would you say he sees in

[00:08:06] Mrs. Kittredge that makes him fall for her? Well, look, the character doesn't understand where he's at, doesn't understand the frontier wars. And I think everybody in this story is searching, whether they're searching for a place or they're searching for an idea or they're

[00:08:22] searching for comfort and compassion with each other. So it's, as I said jokingly to Sienna yesterday, that the title is called Horizon. The horizon is something that you never get to. It's kind of interesting. So maybe that that leads into their searches, into these characters journeys

[00:08:41] more. Yeah, no, that's good. I like that a lot, actually. I'm very excited to see that theme play out over the course of the other films. Speaking of which, this has such a classic throwback to it

[00:08:53] in a way that I just I was I felt like I was so transported back to watching classic Westerns of you know, like the 50s especially. Can you tell me just a little bit about some of your favorite

[00:09:03] Westerns over time, maybe from when you were younger or what you look at? It's just captured how the West was one. You just said it, man. The How the West Was One is a lot like this.

[00:09:12] You know, there's a lot of characters, a lot of great actors involved, a lot of actors playing against type. You know, I don't know whether, you know, if Kevin kind of used that as an inspiration,

[00:09:23] but there's I can definitely see some how it's affected this kind of journey. Yeah. One A Time in the West is one of my favorite ever films. I'm obsessed with it. The first 20 minutes of that movie are just staggering. You don't like young guns? Yeah, love young.

[00:09:43] That we were going to when we were asked that question, we're just going to say something really random, you know, like the mask and Titanic. Random. Yes. No, I mean, that that

[00:09:53] always stood out for me. I know it's a spaghetti Western, but still still counts as far as I'm concerned. And one of the things that I always get so excited about when you have these multi

[00:10:04] storylines is that I love character crossovers. I love when you spend time with one group and eventually they come into contact with another without revealing anything for what is to come. Is there a particular actor who maybe you didn't interact with in Chapter one that you would love

[00:10:19] to share a scene with in subsequent chapters? Kevin Costner, you know, to do a scene with him to take that boy behind the camera is not enough. Yeah, you know, it'd be great. It would be great to see with him. I want to work with Sam more and

[00:10:36] more. We had such a good time, good chemistry and work in a similar way. And but everywhere you look. Giovanni, you know, if you have the opportunity, I've worked with Giovanni on obviously on Avatar.

[00:10:49] If you work with him, he's the man. Wow. There's no one else. He's the real deal. I definitely I think I do. I do. I do interact with him. Yeah, he's he's nice. Yeah,

[00:11:01] I've heard that actually. Can you tease us about what we can expect from Chapter two? Every question you preface, don't tell me. And then your last question is, can you tell me

[00:11:15] just a little bit, just a tad. The town of Horizon, it starts to kind of develop and grow and people needless to say, arrive and then technology starts to infringe upon it. There

[00:11:26] are railroads and and this mythical character of Pickering who's kind of responsible for a lot of people's journey appears and he is a complicated man. Diffident man. I like it really, really good.

[00:11:40] Well, whatever the case might be in terms of where you both go in this in these subsequent films, and hopefully we see the conclusion of it. I know you guys are still in production.

[00:11:50] In any event, I think it's something special. I think it's something unique. And I'm just really, really glad that you guys can be a part of it. So thank you both for your time here today. And

[00:11:57] thank you for honestly, thank you for a movie that quite frankly, we just don't see that often anymore. So thank you for that. Thanks. Take care. It's all right. I'm gonna be with dad.

[00:12:19] No. All I'm trying to do is get as many of us as I can. As far as I can. I just like to have a drink tonight with someone who knows how to act. All right, Matt Neglia with Next Best Picture. I'm being joined right now

[00:12:57] with the incredible Jamie Campbell Bauer. Jamie, how are you today? I'm good, Matt. How are you? Thank you for having me. Oh man, I'm so excited to be talking to you right now. Man, let me tell you something.

[00:13:08] I was rewatching this movie, The Ever Night Horizon and American Saga. And I was watching your performance in this and I couldn't, I like, I remember watching you for the first time in

[00:13:18] Sweeney Todd. And I'm like, there's no way this is the same guy. There's just no way. You just have this ability to transform completely, whether it's through posture, voice or just even getting into the psyche of a character. And you know, everyone gave you praise

[00:13:33] for your performances, Vecna most recently, through all those prosthetics. But here, it's like, I want, I wanted to see more of this guy. I really love this character. I love what you brought to

[00:13:44] him. So big intro out of the way. How did you come aboard Horizon? Tell me about the phone call you got from Kevin. So thank you, first of all, that's very kind of you to say. If I can just

[00:13:58] touch on what you said briefly, I think, yeah, you know, I've been very blessed throughout my career to work with some incredible directors and some incredible writers. And this film is no exception

[00:14:10] to that what's on the page. This is perfect, because this just leads me directly onto your answer. I received the script first and foremost, I got a phone call saying, Kevin's doing this amazing

[00:14:22] Western. Let's you know, they're interested in you have a read of this and tell us what you think. And I read it and I felt electric. I just felt this electricity jumping off the page. And I was

[00:14:34] buzzing. And I am now old enough and wise enough in my years to know that how you feel when you read something or how you feel when you have that first phone call is generally how it's going to be

[00:14:45] throughout the entire experience. So cut to a couple of days later, I am asked to audition over Zoom, which I did. And of course, that electricity is there. And as you know, nowadays using Zoom,

[00:14:59] sometimes you have to kind of be in a waiting room and I'm just there like buzzing on. Let's go, let's go, let's go. Did the audition. Kevin obviously had seen it, called me up about a week

[00:15:09] later and asked me if I wanted to go on go on a journey with him and join this join this incredible project for which, of course, I said yes. But to have him there in his trailer, asking me if I

[00:15:24] wanted to be a part of this. It was really like nothing else I've experienced before. I'm born in 1988. Kevin Costner, the movie star and the director is a huge part of my life and a huge

[00:15:35] part of my childhood. So to be sat there opposite him virtually or in the room, it feels like my heart is exploding. And I felt that way when we were on set, too. You not only got a chance to

[00:15:50] work with him under his direction, but also to you guys have this central pivotal scene, this walk up this what seems to be the never ending hill up to this house, the two of you.

[00:16:01] So you're acting opposite him on top of that. There seemed to be a lot that went into that scene in particular, because the timing of it where the conversation has to

[00:16:11] end up at the top of the hill. And I was thinking a lot about how your character has to make such an impression with such little screen time. And I think you succeeded because they even use

[00:16:24] your lines in the trailer to sell the movie. So I think I think job well done. But can you just tell me a bit about what went into shooting that scene with Kevin? Yeah, obviously, as actors,

[00:16:35] we all do our own work at home. I call it kitchen table work. So we all do that. And then I get to set. And I think there was a couple of days where I was just on set and Kevin when he had

[00:16:48] a moment, we would start to rehearse the scene, you know where we were going to place it, where certain moments were going to happen or where just things felt right. You know,

[00:16:57] first of all, you read something and you read it together and you feel each other out. And then all of a sudden you're kind of figuring out, OK, well here this feels like a very weighty moment.

[00:17:06] So let's let's give this the sort of care and attention it deserves. And then let's break away from it. And I've described that scene particularly. It's like a rubber band being being pulled and

[00:17:17] then contracted. And that was something that he always wanted to have. So we rehearsed it for a couple of days. And one thing about Kevin that I will take with me for the rest of my life is,

[00:17:29] you know, just how much he trusts actors, how much he gives to actors and how much he gives of himself in those scenes and the trust that we have for one another. So you put that into play

[00:17:41] in a scene where these two characters are facing off against one another. And don't get me wrong, I love a bit of confrontation in a scene. I think it's really fun. You know, that's where you get

[00:17:51] to see each other properly for the first time. We were just in we just went for him and we went for gold. And then, of course, you get to that final moment where we're stood outside the house

[00:18:02] and it becomes theater in the round. And Kevin described it that way. You know, he said this is this is now your space. Enjoy this. Enjoy this. Take this moment. And I was like, say less.

[00:18:16] Let's go. So, yeah, you know, we spent we spent a bit of time rehearsing it, but shooting it, you know, shooting it was pretty quick. You know, we knew what we were doing. And you describe these.

[00:18:26] I think you said magic. And I felt like you always hope when you're making a film or making a TV show that you strike these moments of magic, that you strike these moments of gold.

[00:18:36] And we were fortunate. We had a few of those in that moment. And those are uncontrollable. They come from somewhere else and you just kind of have to let yourself be in that moment. And

[00:18:45] I remember a very, very, very. Yeah, I remember them fondly. I remember them fondly. I want to talk about John Beavers really quick. Oh, that's because I love that guy. I've watched this movie and I'm saying to myself, who is this guy? I haven't seen him in anything

[00:19:04] before. I know he does a lot of television work, but on the film side, I don't think I've ever seen him in anything. And he has such incredible presence and the dynamic that he has with you

[00:19:14] as his your character's brother in this movie is so interesting, particularly. I do want to hear a little bit about that dynamic and working with John, but I also want to know, too,

[00:19:27] you're not the one that got kicked by him at that one point. That was a stunt guy, right? I wish I could sit here and say that I was. Yes, that was a stunt guy. Look,

[00:19:34] OK, I'm squirming. That was one hell of a kick. And I was just like, wow, that guy, whoever that was, went flying on. I was like, holy crap. Anyway. Yes. John Beavers, please, if you could.

[00:19:47] Yeah, I love a few words. I love Johnny to bits. He is incredibly generous and incredibly kind. The man that you see on screen is not the guy that you get in real life. He is just I don't

[00:20:03] know. He genuinely felt like a big brother to me when we were off set. We spoke about our lives. We spoke about our partners, our experience of growing up and all of these beautiful things.

[00:20:15] And again, trust, you know, trust. And I saw Johnny have a few moments of of this magic as well, particularly where he squares up against Caleb. And I don't like losing. I don't. I really don't

[00:20:28] like losing in a scene. So, you know, when when he does push me outside and when and when he when Caleb picks up that that that shovel and throws it at the door, that wasn't scripted. I was just

[00:20:38] like, I'm genuinely pissed. But we trusted each other enough to know that, like, we had the freedom to be able to do those things with one another. And the great thing about Junior versus Caleb is,

[00:20:49] you know, Junior, he's a bit more considered. Caleb is a total wild card. I think Junior probably has that in him. And you see it a little when he says, what do you mean? And

[00:21:02] to Mike, when Mike says you're going to send him up there like that, he's like, what do you mean like that? You know, and it's like, well, OK, right now you don't now you don't

[00:21:08] mess with this guy. But I love John Beavers to bits. He's the best dude. I ended up bumping into him in Vegas a few months back. And yeah, he's he's just the coolest dude. Yeah, we love we love

[00:21:22] big fans in our house. Normally, I would ask you about the upcoming chapters, but spoilers. So let me let me let me end with this. Can you tell me anything at all about season five of

[00:21:35] Stranger Things? No, I can't. I surrender. I can say nothing. I figured I would try. I can say nothing. But what I can say about Horizon particularly is Kevin's vision is broadening

[00:21:47] with each with with with each movie that's coming along. And and he described it in the press conference. You know, it doesn't get easier for these characters. And I'm really excited to see chapter two. I really, really am. And subsequent chapters as well. Absolutely. Well, thank you for

[00:22:03] your time here today. Thank you so much for being a part of this very unique and special project. And like you, I can't wait to see more. There we go. Thank you so much. Take care. They're not taking

[00:22:13] the full measure of this Mary. Another man I met was on his way to kill everyone in that house. He might as well have been walking up to get the mail for all it bothered him. But you feel they will

[00:22:40] burn down. Use that much this year? Haven't had much need of it yet. Looks like we got ourselves a bad man right here. All right, everyone, I'm being joined right now by the costume designer

[00:23:18] for Kevin Costner's epic Western Horizon saga. Lisa, Lisa, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me about this. Thank you so much for having me on your your podcast. No, it's,

[00:23:31] you know, such a unique and fascinating project. I really can't recall maybe ever I don't know something of this size and scale being attempted in the theatrical setting. You know, something

[00:23:45] like this, I feel like we would be seeing across multiple seasons of television or in the form of a miniseries. So when you get a project like this with four intensely heavy scripts, you know,

[00:23:59] is this it? Would you say this is like the biggest project that you've worked on in the theatrical setting? Oh, by far. Because, yeah, it's it's been quite an undertaking. And, and we

[00:24:10] go day by day, week by week. And slowly, we're getting it all done. That's really cool and exciting. I mean, I know that right now we've got two in the can third and four for being worked on

[00:24:22] right now as we speak. Our work today or our conversation today is going to be about the work for chapter one primarily. And there was a lot of things that really stood out to me on the

[00:24:31] viewings, especially I want to talk about color, primarily because that was something that really, really stood out to me. I was thinking to myself, you know, there's a reason Costner's Haze is wearing blue. There's there's there's got to be like specific reasons why some of these characters

[00:24:48] are having colors highlighted here because I just didn't imagine seeing that pop so much heading into this. So can you tell me a little bit about the use of color and maybe how that illuminates character theme, whatever the intention was behind it?

[00:25:26] Well, for sure. For Kevin, the colors blues and grays were just so that his silhouette and that he would stand out in the red surroundings of Utah where we filmed. You know, it was a nice way for

[00:25:49] a man who is very in the film, very stoic and he's very confident, but he doesn't say much that I had to not have him blend as much as other people would blend. I needed him to stand out a little bit

[00:26:04] more. And I chose a scarf that showed maybe a little sensitivity because when you watch him in one, you don't know who he is and you don't know where he's going or what he's up to. You see that

[00:26:17] he comes in with a team of men who have been maybe they've been, you know, wrangling cows somewhere, but you don't have a true idea of who he is. So I wanted to kind of set the

[00:26:34] costume and the feeling for Hayes in a tone that showed that there's a softness inside. And that's kind of where we ended up. But I'll tell you the trick in picking that color and

[00:26:49] what you see on screen is that this is all shot exterior Utah. Yeah. And the overhead light is unbelievable. I mean, we had sun all day long and it's really, really strong. And against the red,

[00:27:08] it there, they're almost it almost like colors exploded and textures kind of pulled back a little bit when I learned in one is that the color blue with this digital film really exploded a lot

[00:27:24] more than maybe I had intended originally to set him in. So you learn things as you go through this process. And I thought it looked striking and it looked really beautiful. Was it supposed to

[00:27:38] his was his shirt that ever that blue in real life? Absolutely not. It was very everything was. And it's also the aging on all of the costumes were they were filthy. And yet when you see the

[00:27:53] film and you see Kevin dip into a scene and you see the hat go into shade, you see that there is a lot of a lot of dirt and a lot of aging on the hat. But as soon as he pulls up out of the shade,

[00:28:08] it comes across as, you know, not age much at all. So I had a little tricks I learned. I had to learn that pretty quickly in that place where we filmed was the LaSalle Mountains where he first where we

[00:28:22] first filmed and his the light up there was also very different. And so, you know, we learned that the the marigolds dress, that aubergine, that, you know, kind of tone that we used popped a little

[00:28:37] bit as well. So these things just happened as we go on. And it for me, it worked beautifully for each character because, you know, it was nice to kind of see a woman, you know, standing up against that

[00:28:50] kind of gray wood of the small town. It looked really beautiful. I thought I thought so, too. Particularly, yeah. The character of oh my gosh, there's so many character names. Maria, I think

[00:29:03] Marigold Marigold. Thank you. Sorry. So many so many people to keep track of. But yes, that that purple in particular was another one that jumped out at me like right away as soon as I saw it.

[00:29:13] And I thought to myself, wow, like, even if you don't know it right away, because obviously we know who the actor is and such, but like your brain immediately says that's an important character. That's a character who stands out. That's a character who's also wanting to stand out

[00:29:27] for the sake of what their character's motivation is and what they're trying to do. So I particularly love that. But I really want to before we maybe talk about her, there's one thing that when I was watching this movie, my friend said to me afterwards,

[00:29:43] where did the idea come from to have the dead coyote over junior? I think it's junior, if I remember correctly, over his shoulders. Where did that come from? Well, we were that scene takes place in Montana, though we filmed it up in the LaSalle Mountains

[00:30:00] in Utah. And we wanted to distinguish the there's the Sykes family. We wanted to distinguish the temperature of where they live and kind of what they do. You know, it's a lot of hunting

[00:30:12] and it's a lot of, you know, trapping up there back in the day. So we wanted to kind of show that that was a practical way of them keeping warm. So when we see their house and we see

[00:30:24] their family, you see that there is a lot of fur and there's a lot of equipment to hunt and to trap up there. So we wanted to be able to show that. And we had scenes in the snow, which

[00:30:36] may be in one, it could be in two, where you see them riding through the snow and you see the fur coats on them. And we had full, full, full, full, full fur coats on some people and

[00:30:49] then just pieces of fur on others. So that just that was Kevin Costner saying, I think they need to have a lot of fur. So then going back to Marigold again, fascinating character,

[00:31:04] one that I said before, it's very clear how her costume informs who she is and also how she wants others to see her. But as the story progresses, and her relationship with Hayes deepens, so too

[00:31:19] does the character itself. Can you tell me a bit about also what just what went into creating her look for the film? Well, the time period, the color of the season, the color of the or the year

[00:31:32] before was mauve. It had just been kind of developed as a tone, as a color, and it was really popular in the early 60s. So we wanted to use that color as kind of a symbol of what was

[00:31:46] happening in the early 60s in costumes. So we were, we kind of came into the movie, each of the scenes we do, we kind of come in a couple years before with the costume, just to kind of

[00:32:00] show that there's, you know, it took a little time to come out to the sticks. And so with her costume, we wanted to show kind of who she was pretty quickly. And we wanted the corset to sit

[00:32:16] as a dress piece rather than as an undergarment. So my cutter fitter, who's incredible on the movie, his name's Dale Whibben, and he's done some tremendous films in the past. He is what I call

[00:32:31] the king of corsets. So he cut this piece that just fit over Abby Lee's body so beautifully. And then she's got really long legs. So we did the tiers of the skirt rather than one piece with a

[00:32:47] ruffle at the bottom, which was fairly traditional. We made it as a tiered piece so that the length more than anything, your eye could see these little kind of waterfall tiers coming off her dress.

[00:33:02] And that's how we ended up doing the black lace with a little bit of chartreuse. I don't know if you could see that in there, but bringing a little chartreuse into the scene as well

[00:33:13] behind the black lace, just to kind of trim it up and give it some surface interest. So for all these characters who stand out and the costumes allow you to do that,

[00:33:23] you then have the characters who are part of the army where they all have to dress the same, and you don't have that flexibility to allow for character to come through costume because they're just simply not allowed to make alterations to it necessarily.

[00:33:39] So is there like a degree of difficulty in wading through that? Do you ever have conversations about, I think this character might make a slight alteration maybe? Like how does one go about trying to find peculiarities and certain identifiable characteristics when the

[00:33:57] costumes dictate that there shouldn't be any? Kevin is lovely about all of this. And I, in the very beginning, just to even get started, I probably did about 120 pages of research.

[00:34:11] It's a book. And it's got every area in America. It's got every kind of character we could find that exists in each of these areas. So that when we did like the town of Horizon, or we did Fort

[00:34:27] Gallant, I would do forts out west, I would give the name and I would get all the pictures, as many pictures that exist, or paintings or illustrations. And I would put this all together

[00:34:40] in this book. And Kevin and I would go through the book and we would talk about each character and the little bit of nuance that we could give, like for the military, how we could make

[00:34:52] Sam different from Rooker, not only by rank, but like kind of how they style their clothes and what they wear. And the little pieces we did for the cavalry and the infantry and how we can separate

[00:35:05] them. And there was maybe not, maybe you don't see it in this one, maybe you'll see it in two, but there is a bit of a range in, you know, we could do jackets and vests and shirts rolled up.

[00:35:18] There's a big scene of them in and out of the water, kind of with buckets of water, kind of doing things. And you see the different shirts. It's not a uniform shirt. A lot of the costumes,

[00:35:31] a lot of the uniforms were actually for the Union Army. They were a little better supplied. But there was a lot of homemade shirts and a lot of custom made pieces that they would

[00:35:44] wear that their wives and or their mothers would make for them. So we have those kind of little subtle changes for the characters that we're able to, you know, let the audience see when we get to

[00:35:57] the fort scenes. Yeah, yeah. I know that we can't talk so much about upcoming chapters, but I guess my main question is, this is still an evolving production. Like this is still something that

[00:36:15] hasn't been fully completed yet. Yeah. Yeah. So as a result of that, is that challenging for you to map out the trajectory of how costumes will change for characters over time? Or do you

[00:36:28] already have that worked out now? It's just a matter of executing it. Well, you know, on the practical sense, we did film a lot of anything at the fort. We filmed Horizon One and Two already. Yeah. So

[00:36:42] back in Horizon One. So we did a lot of back and forth for that movie. So when I, you know, I'm pretty sure what's in Horizon One, but I've also seen Horizon Two now. And so there is a

[00:36:58] little bit of a blur. So once we get to a town or once we get on the wagon train or once we get to Montana, then we establish little changes in their costumes. But people overall back in the day

[00:37:16] had one or two outfits. They did not have, they didn't have a wide range. So I would try to, like for the town of Horizon or like Fort Gallant, I would try to keep the pants the same,

[00:37:29] keep the boots the same because they wouldn't have to pair and then change out a shirt, do the shirt on, you know, do one shirt in one scene and another shirt in another scene just to show

[00:37:42] it was important for me to show passage of time. And if we didn't have a costume change of some sort, it would be hard to see that the story is moving on or moving forward or it's not

[00:37:54] the same day. So I did a lot of work with Kevin in kind of trying to feel what would be our day breaks. When do we go forward? When is it two months in the future? When is it three months

[00:38:10] in the future? And try to do little subtle changes with the costume, either by making them more dirty or by making little changes in having them change their shirt. Yeah. You talked a lot about natural light before and I'm curious to know, do you prefer to have the

[00:38:32] natural light of shooting on location for how that impacts costuming or would you prefer to be in a controlled environment where you can control the lighting and change the costumes accordingly? I think that this movie in particular couldn't be done on a stage. It would never have

[00:38:50] the look that it has. And so even though I think it has a few difficulties like the bright light kind of dimming out the aging, those are my problems. They're not problems that I think

[00:39:04] the audience as the regular audience will see. And I think the audience will love the fact that is so that the movie is so big and it visually it fills the frame. And I don't know,

[00:39:19] you could never get that on a stage. And I've been doing this movie now or these movies for two years. It's hard to even remember, you know, the hours clicking by on a stage.

[00:39:34] It is it's physical. It's really hard. We're out there in the direct sun, 12, easily 12, 14 hours per day. We work really long hours, but it is the most exciting way to do a movie. And we say we're

[00:39:52] in Utah and we're in this town, Moab, which is stunning to get to the location we film at. The locations are at least 30 minutes away from our hotels, sometimes an hour away. So then we

[00:40:08] drive on these sometimes dirt roads for a really long time to get to these really isolated, exquisite locations that you feel that maybe haven't been stepped on or looked at or seen for decades. And

[00:40:25] you feel like you're in kind of you step back in time at these locations. So I think that trade to work hard and be sweaty and be filthy, dirty all day long is well worth the what we get

[00:40:40] for the film. And it's the quality of this film and the look of this film is, I think, pretty spectacular. I think so, too. It has a traditional throwback quality, very classical that, quite

[00:40:53] frankly, we just don't see that often anymore nowadays. And it's something to that. I keep getting a sense as I watch it that it is something that I feel like I would see in television in the

[00:41:05] form of a miniseries or across multiple seasons, but I'm watching it on the big screen instead in chunks, these four chunks. And that feels special. That feels unique in today's landscape. So it's interesting how you get a phone call, Kevin Costner, Western. Yes, absolutely. I want

[00:41:25] to do it in this unique format, though. Yeah, absolutely. And then when Kevin starts outlining his vision to you, it sounds like it's his grand magnum opus. It sounds to me like it is

[00:41:40] him wanting to essentially, oh God, cliche, ride off into the sunset in a blaze of glory almost. All these factors got to contribute towards this feeling like such a monumental yet special experience overall, I imagine. It's exactly that. When I first got the call,

[00:42:00] I mean, I was overjoyed to do a Western. It's like work, but the best kind of work. And work with Kevin Costner is like that's really high up there. So I got excited and I started to read

[00:42:13] the script and I read halfway down page one, script one. And I was like, oh my God, I need a pencil and a pad of paper. I usually read the script through and then I go back for the details.

[00:42:27] I was like, this is so dense. This is so big. I couldn't even put into words like I was like, oh, how how is this going to be done? And immediately started taking my notes and

[00:42:41] figuring out how it could be done because I love a puzzle. I love figuring it out. And just the characters that were described on the page and the size of the script was something

[00:42:53] I had not seen before. And this was just one. And then we started talking, Kevin and I, and he would mention things and I'd be like, oh, I think I overlooked that in the script.

[00:43:05] I would take notes. It wasn't in one, it's in two. So he has a fluid way of talking. His storytelling is his all everyday life. And so when you talk about a scene in one, he,

[00:43:21] in his mind, is already written two, three and four. So he brings the story, he always brings it forward. So you always know. I still haven't read four because reading each one individually just to

[00:43:38] even absorb what I have to do on the script is focus enough. But Kevin has that fluid way of speaking. So a lot of times I'd be asking him about one and he would be answering about the

[00:43:52] characters in two, which was a great way of getting information of where the character is going to go. And it was, it's monumental. It's huge. We probably fit, I probably fit, I don't know, all new people each week, at least 20 day players, actors, and then hundreds of background

[00:44:19] each week in all different characters, all different looks, all different walks of life. And so that happened each week. And it was kind of, I think it would be probably like somebody who

[00:44:32] is doing a big TV series. You know, you have a, see, you know, the first show, episode one, you have all these characters come in. Episode two, you have all new characters come in and that's

[00:44:47] what we were doing, but it was week one, week two, and characters would fly in with two days, hopefully three days before they work. So we have time to make clothes, age clothes,

[00:45:02] dye clothes and put them on, get them out to the set. It was, it's quite a carousel of activity. So because this is still an ongoing production, are the costumes just like sitting in a warehouse

[00:45:17] somewhere waiting for you to go back and pull them out again? Or do they have to be made again? Oh, no. Everything, hundreds of costumes are between Moab and St. George in the warehouses

[00:45:31] we have. Wow. Everything's there. We have been, for the pieces we've rented, we've been renting them for two years. Jesus. So it's been, yeah, it's quite a bit. But at the end of this,

[00:45:45] we talk often, Kevin and I, about his museum. He wants to do a museum. He's doing a beautiful stage in Utah for filming and for anything, everything. And I think that there might be

[00:46:02] a museum of there, but he's talking about this. So I'm saving every piece that we make and using it, saving it for his museum that he'd like to do. He's a big thinker. It's not just the movie. It's not just ending. It's this world that he's created.

[00:46:23] And I realize I have a little bit of time here and I was thinking I was going to end there, but something else just popped in my head. I want to ask you really quick.

[00:46:32] Because you did so much research for this and because you guys shot on location, my brain was immediately going to how do you draw a line between what is comfortable for the actor

[00:46:43] to handle on location, in intense heat, whatever it is, versus being as accurate as possible to the period? Or do people just say, you know what, what they wore back in this time, I'm going to

[00:46:56] wear and I'm going to die sweating. It doesn't matter. I have to say there's every actor we have had come in is so excited about working on this project. Unlike anything I've ever worked on, every one of them are like pinching themselves. They're so happy to be there.

[00:47:15] So unfortunately, especially like the uniforms, they're all wool and we've had to make them and we've had to be pretty accurate with the quality of wool that were used. So they just hang right

[00:47:27] and drape right. So it's not thin wool. And so they all wear them, they all sweat, they all get dirty and not one complaint. They are all very, you know, we'll take off the jackets

[00:47:46] obviously in between, but there's something about it being insulated. This is what I sell to all of them. Something about being insulated in nice wool that kind of your body regulates itself a little

[00:47:58] easier. So that's why I tried to tell everyone, but it is one of those movies that everyone, we just, I just got back from doing the trailer, what would be the trailer pieces for two,

[00:48:15] which is the scenes for three. We just shot 18 days doing that. And I just got back and it was incredible to be with the crew that was so excited to be back together. And it was like a

[00:48:33] giant family reunion. It was fantastic. Almost like going to summer camp and spending time with your friends. It was well, I think I speak for everyone when I say the work is gorgeous. The film is

[00:48:46] gorgeous. And I want to thank you for your participation in it because I really do believe that there is something special here, something that we're likely not going to see I again for

[00:48:57] quite some time. And I think we should cherish it. I feel like for Kevin, especially in his legacy, we should cherish it. And I want to thank you so much for being a part of it. I agree. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. Take care.

[00:49:10] All right. Bye bye. Hey everyone, thank you so much for listening to my interviews with the stars from Kevin Costner's Horizon and American Saga Chapter One, Sienna Miller, Sam Worthington and Jamie Campbell

[00:49:21] Bower and the film's costume designer Lisa Lavasse here on the Next Best Picture podcast. Horizon and American Saga Chapter One is now playing in theaters from Warner Brothers Pictures. You have been listening to the Next Best Picture podcast. We are proud to be part of the Evergreen Podcast

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[00:51:24] man. I'm tired. Who listens to a promo on a podcast and then goes and listens to a different podcast? Right. I've never done it.