"Blue Valentine"

[00:00:00] You are listening to the Next Best Picture Podcast and this is our review of Blue Valentine.

[00:00:06] You got any like talents?

[00:00:08] Like hidden talents?

[00:00:10] Can you dance?

[00:00:12] You can tap dance?

[00:00:14] Can you?

[00:00:15] No, here I'll play a song and you dance.

[00:00:18] Okay.

[00:00:19] I can't really sing.

[00:00:21] I have to sing goofy in order to sing.

[00:00:23] I have to sing stupid.

[00:00:25] Okay?

[00:00:26] Okay, everybody you just listening to the trailer for Blue Valentine and the story is as follows.

[00:00:31] Dean and Sydney live a quiet life in a modest neighborhood.

[00:00:36] To the casual observer everything appears normal if a bit subdued but a closer examination reveals a couple caught in a downward spiral.

[00:00:45] They appear to have the world at their feet at the outset of the relationship.

[00:00:49] However, his lack of ambition and her retreat into self-absorption cause potentially irreversible cracks in their marriage.

[00:00:58] The film is starring Ryan Gosling and Michelle Williams.

[00:01:01] It is written and directed by Derek Sienfrans and it is co-written by Joey Curtis and Kami Delevingne.

[00:01:08] Here to join me today for this Throwback 2010 Patreon Podcast review I have Emma Sasek.

[00:01:15] Hello.

[00:01:16] Nadia Dalamante.

[00:01:17] Hello.

[00:01:18] And Alyssa Christian.

[00:01:20] Hello.

[00:01:21] All right, ladies ready to get your hearts broken tonight?

[00:01:24] Yeah, I guess.

[00:01:26] Heartbreak feels good in a place like this.

[00:01:28] There you go.

[00:01:29] Man.

[00:01:30] Perfect.

[00:01:31] I forgot how devastating this film can be.

[00:01:37] Yeah.

[00:01:38] I mean you hear people talk about it all the time how it's a very emotionally grueling watch but oh man I don't know if it's just the beginning.

[00:01:47] I don't know if it's just the years of experience or not just for myself but seeing people I know go through similar things.

[00:01:55] But man this hit way, way harder now than it did for me 14 years ago.

[00:02:02] To set the stage here, Derek Sienfrans, this was not technically his debut film.

[00:02:11] The first one that was tied was the film that he did before this one but this is like really his breakout film in a lot of ways.

[00:02:18] This one premiered at the Sundance Film Festival and garnered extremely strong reviews for Gosling and Michelle Williams delivering two of the best performances of their career.

[00:02:29] And at the time it actually had this kind of weird controversy pertaining to its rating.

[00:02:37] It was given an NC17 rating if you can believe it.

[00:02:42] There was an appeal that was made and it was successful and the film eventually did receive an R rating.

[00:02:48] It gets released towards the end of the year in December of 2010.

[00:02:54] So all this build up and all this anticipation for this movie from Sundance all the way till end of year.

[00:03:00] You can imagine that people wanted to see what everyone was talking about regarding these two performances.

[00:03:06] And like I said oh boy oh boy oh boy as the timelines shift back and forth we see the beginning, the middle,

[00:03:14] the solution of this relationship in an up close and personal way.

[00:03:19] And even though it is set within a very particular time and outside of the examination of this relationship there really aren't any of our bells and whistles to this movie necessarily.

[00:03:33] However, dare I say it's examination of human emotion, logical thinking sometimes illogical thinking and how we approach relationships

[00:03:43] and also to the way that the movie handles looking at a relationship from two different perspectives while also focusing on the whole

[00:03:53] and what two people are, how two people are meant to fit together and sometimes how they don't fit together.

[00:03:59] And this film in its own way is timeless.

[00:04:01] So passing it over first to, you know actually I want to know is there anyone here who watched this for the first time and had not seen it before?

[00:04:12] No.

[00:04:15] No okay alright then alright then I'm going to pass it off first to then Nadia.

[00:04:22] Nadia take us away first what did you think of Blue Valentine?

[00:04:26] Well I, I'd seen Blue Valentine once over first over 10 years ago when it was released and I hadn't seen it again until just the other night

[00:04:39] and letting all that time pass might be because this is one of the most devastating relationships ever put on screen and it is, it can be depressing to watch

[00:04:50] but I still had fond memories of that first viewing and for me it was strongly in relation to Michelle Williams and Ryan Gosling.

[00:05:01] I remember at the time how exciting it was for me when the movie came out both of them were already Oscar nominated by that point

[00:05:09] and their film careers were kind of continuing to blossom.

[00:05:13] So my early memories of the movie was, it was very intertwined with how much I admired both of them and then after re-watching it after all this time

[00:05:24] I just felt really startled by their talent all over again and also how devastating and emotional the story is all over again

[00:05:34] and I also kind of felt more in tune with the anatomy of the storytelling even though the concept of a disintegrating marriage

[00:05:46] I think it's the foreground of a lot of movies but this film feels really personal I think to Derek, Cian France as a filmmaker

[00:05:54] it's very intimate and carefully thought out and I have to say out of everything that he has written and directed

[00:06:04] this movie is by far the most impactful of his career for me.

[00:06:09] I think the concept of the story is shaped with a very delicate eye that feels very privy to the nuances of a relationship

[00:06:22] and I felt like a fly on the wall to this marriage.

[00:06:25] I think the chemistry between Michelle Williams and Ryan Gosling is so lived in

[00:06:31] and when you think about the behind the scenes of the movie which I'm sure we'll get into later

[00:06:37] it kind of makes sense that really comes through on screen

[00:06:41] and I just love the teamwork between the two of them as actors

[00:06:45] and how you can kind of watch this relationship unfold

[00:06:50] the way that it's mapped out thematically and narratively really works for me

[00:06:55] there's this really great interchange between the nostalgia of the early days

[00:07:01] and then the crushing reality of the present day

[00:07:04] and I think because I get both of those time periods almost an equal measure

[00:07:10] the relationship spiraling into less Valentine and more blue feels kind of organic instead of manufactured

[00:07:21] and I just love that element to it.

[00:07:24] I love the visual language of this movie where the past kind of you see Cindy and Dean

[00:07:31] physically share the screen more and then the present kind of sets them apart individually

[00:07:36] I love the editing of the movie I feel like it's kind of like the film's secret weapon

[00:07:41] you get these constant reminders of that this couple was once in a better place

[00:07:46] which makes their demise hurt even more

[00:07:52] and overall I think I discovered a lot more about blue Valentine the second time around

[00:07:58] especially when it came to how the relationship on screen is actually being pieced together

[00:08:03] and then there are things that I think have stayed the same like it still falls into that group of films that

[00:08:09] wouldn't necessarily be top of mind to watch because it can be so devastating

[00:08:15] it's very well made it's bittersweet it's got this really retrospective quality

[00:08:24] about how it presents relationships and the sparks of togetherness falling out of love

[00:08:31] what happens when those fireworks disappear and you're left with the reality of a relationship

[00:08:38] that you are not getting anything out of anymore

[00:08:41] and this is all led by these two terrific performances that kind of take this concept

[00:08:49] and then make it shine to the extent where you really do feel like you're experiencing the relationship

[00:08:56] right in the eye of the storm with them.

[00:08:59] Wow. Yeah. Jeez.

[00:09:02] Yeah, it's intense.

[00:09:04] We're going to go deep on this one I'm sure.

[00:09:07] Emma, I'm curious to know did you rewatch this and turn to your boyfriend and say,

[00:09:12] hey it's not that bad?

[00:09:14] Look at us.

[00:09:16] Well that was certainly not the direction that I was going to start with.

[00:09:20] I was going to say I don't even know if there's anything more to add than everything in audio

[00:09:24] just so eloquently said.

[00:09:26] Yeah.

[00:09:28] I guess I very similar to Nadia I watched this film 10, 10 plus years ago at this point.

[00:09:36] I think it was one of those films that despite its R rating later on I think it was on TNT and TBS or whatever so often

[00:09:47] and I just know that my mom would watch it every so often so I've seen it more times in the past than in the future

[00:09:55] but it's always a very devastating film to revisit nonetheless.

[00:10:00] I was so very equally taken aback by this film when I first watched it I remember crying very hard

[00:10:08] especially toward the end and just as you see where that relationship once was where you are falling for Dean

[00:10:16] and I mean who wouldn't?

[00:10:19] Like he is played by Ryan Gosling but I mean he's a sweet man and he,

[00:10:24] I don't know there's just something about his character that's so charming that you think well of course anybody is going to fall in love with him

[00:10:32] so it's of course Cindy does fall in love with him and it's just so sad to see that however many years down the line

[00:10:41] so much has changed between them where he is an alcoholic and he favors that more than actually taking care of the relationship

[00:10:50] and she too has just kind of given up on trying and it's just heartbreaking in every sense of the word to see that

[00:10:59] and of course you wonder well what did happen all those years that led to this?

[00:11:06] We don't necessarily get to see all of that but I think we can infer a few things and each one of those storylines and ideas

[00:11:14] just seem more devastating than the next one so overall it's a very heartbreaking film but it is truly anchored by two incredible performances

[00:11:23] from Michelle Williams and Ryan Gosling who will make you laugh one second,

[00:11:29] one second, you cry the next second and then just contemplating life afterward

[00:11:36] and I just think that this film really does shed light on relationships in a unique way

[00:11:45] as it's been said we've seen relationships disintegrate and we've seen troubles among couples

[00:11:53] but there's just something about this film that I think still continues to stick out in the way that it's edited

[00:11:59] in the way that these two different periods are shown in their lives that are so vastly different

[00:12:05] and I think at the end of the day there's something that we can all kind of pull from the story that we can relate to

[00:12:12] whether it's in our own personal relationships or maybe observing our parents, our grandparents

[00:12:18] other people we know it's just one of those films that once you see it I feel like it kind of sinks its teeth into you

[00:12:26] and it still has had its teeth in me since I watched it ten plus years ago so it's got staying power that's for sure

[00:12:35] Coming up on 5 Minute News, I'm Anthony Davis

[00:12:40] You might think it's partisan because maybe it's critical of one side or the other but it's not, it's just the truth

[00:12:46] and I think that's also something that's kind of unusual for Americans listening to the radio or to podcasts

[00:12:53] because the news landscape in the States has been so partisan for so many decades

[00:12:59] so 5 Minute News is verified, truthful, independent, unbiased and essential world news daily

[00:13:08] Alright, Alyssa how about you?

[00:13:12] Well it's hard to follow that because you both covered a lot of ground there but yeah I actually had only seen one previous time before

[00:13:21] I think I saw it in the theater back in 2010 when it was released

[00:13:25] and I remember being really blown away by the performances, by the writing, by the filmmaking as a whole

[00:13:32] but I hadn't been able to rewatch it because even though it's a movie I think about from time to time

[00:13:37] it is very hard to get through and yes we do have those moments of levity mostly through a Gosling's character

[00:13:44] both in the past and the present but yeah there are definitely some really difficult scenes to get through

[00:13:50] and you definitely feel it through their performances and as they mentioned before

[00:13:56] I mean the filmmaking is actually very strong here and obviously as was mentioned the editing

[00:14:04] it's really interesting I'm sure we'll get into this too how apparently some of their arguments were also improvised

[00:14:10] which I'm really curious to get into so yeah I really just love the chemistry between the two of them

[00:14:16] it's really interesting to look back and see where the two of them have gone since then

[00:14:21] and they've been nominated for other Oscars since that time

[00:14:25] I wish both of them had been nominated for this movie but I'm glad at least she broke through there

[00:14:30] and I'm sure we'll get more into Oscar talk later but yeah I'm glad I was able to rewatch this

[00:14:36] even though it was not exactly a pleasant watch all the way through

[00:14:40] but yeah it definitely is interesting to revisit this after all these years

[00:14:45] because I'm older obviously I live through more experiences that may or may not be related to this film

[00:14:52] so yeah I'm excited to dive more into it

[00:14:55] I have to say I was always impressed by this movie

[00:15:00] but this latest viewing caused me to be almost in a state of shock while watching this movie

[00:15:09] because there's so much about this movie that relies so heavily on naturalism

[00:15:19] and there's a fluidity to the filmmaking and to the performances that feel so unscripted

[00:15:27] those if we're being given a front row seat to watch something that we should not be watching

[00:15:34] because it's so private and so intimate

[00:15:38] and yet even though it's very specific to this one relationship

[00:15:44] the thing I came away with more so than anything on this latest viewing

[00:15:48] wasn't specific scenes or specific lines of dialogue

[00:15:54] I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be any kind of a psychologist

[00:15:58] I'm not going to dissect these two people

[00:16:02] but what I am going to talk about is I am going to talk about

[00:16:07] how this movie I think can serve as a litmus test

[00:16:12] for other people's relationships out there

[00:16:15] for your views on relationships, for your views on love

[00:16:20] is it something that is actually meant to last

[00:16:24] I think a lot of cases couples who end up staying together until death

[00:16:29] I truly think that that is a stroke of luck in most cases

[00:16:33] and this movie is a prime example of that for various reasons

[00:16:38] I think too the reason that people end up together

[00:16:42] bound by marriage in this case

[00:16:45] a lot of times also is a bit of a trap that people fall into

[00:16:50] that you don't need to fall into

[00:16:52] but people when they fall in love they fall pretty hard

[00:16:56] and so this movie I think is exploring

[00:17:00] the dangers of that especially when

[00:17:04] you know the red flags are there

[00:17:07] and you know that this is not right

[00:17:09] and this is not something that's built to last

[00:17:12] yet we fall into it anyway

[00:17:15] and it's so tragic to watch people go through this

[00:17:18] and it's tragic to watch these two people go through it

[00:17:23] I think maybe the reason why this film has

[00:17:27] more staying power on a rewatch

[00:17:31] is because we know Michelle Williams and Ryan Gosling better

[00:17:38] maybe not on a personal level

[00:17:40] you know I'm not calling them up on my cell phone right now

[00:17:43] but we've seen them through various roles

[00:17:47] we've seen them grow and evolve

[00:17:49] we've watched them in interview junkets

[00:17:51] we've seen them at award shows

[00:17:53] so there's this connection between us and them

[00:17:57] and so to see something that is once again so natural

[00:18:01] and doesn't feel like you're watching a movie

[00:18:04] it really feels like you're watching

[00:18:07] Ryan Gosling and Michelle Williams

[00:18:09] and so I almost feel that there's like this impulse from us

[00:18:12] when we're watching this to almost like want to reach through the screen

[00:18:15] and be like no, no don't you know

[00:18:18] and reach out to both of them

[00:18:20] and talk some sense into them

[00:18:22] and try to find a way to mend this broken relationship

[00:18:26] but unfortunately what's done is done

[00:18:29] and if anything I almost view this movie in ways that's a cautionary tale

[00:18:34] for not diving head first into

[00:18:40] you know the first relationship that sweeps you off your feet

[00:18:43] because that feeling

[00:18:45] like I said in most cases, not all

[00:18:47] but in most cases that feeling does not last

[00:18:51] and you end up then with a life of regret and hurt

[00:18:55] and I'm listen blue Valentine takes it to the extreme

[00:19:00] but I'm just saying I really do think that this movie

[00:19:04] serves as a stand-in for more relationships than not

[00:19:07] at least in my experience

[00:19:09] Yeah, it definitely seems like much more of a raw authentic type of portrayal

[00:19:14] even though there are definitely some elements that are elevated

[00:19:18] but it's not like too far fetched

[00:19:21] especially you know since we've been watching this relationship since the beginning

[00:19:25] Now for long review you will have to head on over to Next Best Pictures Patreon

[00:19:40] where for $1 minimum a month

[00:19:42] you will get the rest of this review and other exclusive podcast content from us as well

[00:19:46] You have been listening to the Next Best Picture podcast

[00:19:49] We are proud to be part of the Evergreen Podcast Network

[00:19:51] and you can subscribe to us anywhere where you subscribe to podcasts

[00:19:55] Be sure to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts

[00:19:57] and let us know what you think of the show

[00:19:59] We really appreciate your feedback and your support

[00:20:02] Thank you all so much for listening as always

[00:20:04] and we will see you all next time

[00:21:13] The monsters from the misunderstood

[00:21:15] Was Jengus Khan a murderous butcher or a civic pioneer?

[00:21:20] Did the Allied powers go too far in firebombing the German city of Dresden

[00:21:25] at the twilight of World War II?

[00:21:27] And how did the Marquis de Sade acquire such a sinister reputation?

[00:21:32] And was any of it true?

[00:21:34] These are just a few of the tough questions we wrestle with

[00:21:37] and investigate on Conflict It

[00:21:40] So if you love history or just enjoy a good story

[00:21:43] please join me, your host Zach Cornwell

[00:21:46] for a fascinating new topic each and every month

[00:21:49] Conflicted History Podcast is available on Spotify, Apple, or wherever else you get your podcasts

[00:21:56] I hope to see you soon