A Behind The Scenes Look At "Palm Royale"

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[00:01:27] Uber vermittelt Fahrten und ist kein Beförderer. You are listening to the Next Best Picture Podcast and this is Dan Baer's interview with the costume designer for Palm Royale, Alex Friedberg, followed by Nadia Dalamante's interview with the composer, Jeff Toyne.

[00:01:44] And then Dan Baer returns for an interview with production designer John Carlos and set decorator Ellen Reed. How did you get past security? I came in the back. There are no doors on the back of the Palm Royale. I never said I use the door.

[00:02:03] I had only been in Palm Beach two weeks. We don't know you. I'm Maxine Delcourt. But I already knew the Palm Royale, the most exclusive club in the world, was where I belonged. Evelyn, you are the woman to know in Palm Beach. I don't like you, Maxine.

[00:02:21] You're very good at making things awkward. I don't concern myself with the shenanigans of vapid poons. What is Evelyn wearing? Sleeves. You know anything about rich people? A part in the lawn. Robert, shake me another martini and then let's play doctor.

[00:02:42] Welcome everyone to the Next Best Picture Podcast, where we are talking with Alex Friedberg, the costume designer for the series Palm Royale. Alex, thank you so much for joining us today. It's my pleasure.

[00:02:55] I'm very excited to talk to you because I think Palm Royale is such a fun series design-wise. It is one of those things where you're dealing with history. This is a real time period in a real place, but it's heightened to an extent that it's

[00:03:16] almost an imagined version of this very real community. And because the tone of the project is so unique to this specific series, I'm wondering what was your design brief for the costumes when you signed on? You know, the design brief was really a Slim Aarons world.

[00:03:40] It was, you know, rarefied air. The photography of Slim Aarons was really our jumping off point. The series is, yes, it's heightened and we definitely turned up the volume on the period and the color palette, but it really is based in reality. These people exist now.

[00:04:03] They existed in 1969. They've existed for a while, this sort of oblivious group of people living in a bubble where, you know, especially in 1969 where both coasts were out protesting and people were dying in Vietnam and there's just a revolution happening everywhere else except for this

[00:04:26] club, where, you know, the martinis are still cold and tennis lessons are happening and business deals are done in the tennis court. You know, it's very silly, but it's very real. Very much so. And it's 1969. It's right on the cusp of the 70s.

[00:04:49] So you have, you know, and people, given how people buy clothes, there are even some characters in the series who are, you know, they're from earlier time periods, maybe the clothes. And you also have flashbacks to the late 40s and 50s.

[00:05:05] What was the sort of through line for these characters and specifically as regards, you know, you have this divide between the two worlds, you have like the West Palm Beach and then you have the Palm Royale Club. I think that the biggest difference would be the palette.

[00:05:23] We had a very, very limited palette in the Palm Royale and Palm Beach where, you know, the whites were very white and the brights were very bright. And it was, you know, Lilly Pulitzer and those watercolor pastels, tan skin.

[00:05:41] And the items were crisp and new and fresh and shiny. Whereas in West Palm Beach, there's a patina over all of the background in the motel and in and around Mitzis and where you can kind of tell that people are sweating outside and,

[00:05:59] you know, they're washing their clothes quite often. Whereas Palm Beach, it's people are, you know, it's a new outfit for lunch. It's a new outfit for dinner. It's a new gown for the gala. It's shiny and clean and fresh.

[00:06:12] So the palette was something that was really important so that whenever we dropped you into the world, you knew where you were. We didn't have any denim or anything that resembled the feminist group that was led by Laura Dern's character in the bookstore.

[00:06:28] So there was a lot of denim and macrame and earth tones. So that was very specific to those women in that world. Absolutely. I noticed that, and especially the colors of their costumes are also reflected in the decor of the bookstore, especially.

[00:06:50] And I'm wondering how, you know, I interviewed the production design team as well for this. I was wondering if I could get your perspective on the collaboration with them in terms of creating these spaces for these women.

[00:07:03] Yeah, I mean, we were joint at the hip for every scene, truly, because there is so much in the late 60s, the psychedelic prints can overwhelm you so easily. And it was really important that we were in sync about who was going to stand in the foreground.

[00:07:25] Was it going to be the clothes or the sets, or the set deck in each scene and why? And, you know, particularly for the bookstore, Giancarlo's designed such an incredible set. I mean, all of the sets are incredible, but that one particularly I loved so much because,

[00:07:42] you know, where these women gather right behind them is a wall, is a mural of a giant, it's a giant, they're ovaries. Sorry, it's like a, it's a uterus. Yeah, yeah. It's a uterus and it goes all the way into the rug. It's incredible.

[00:08:01] So we wanted to highlight that and to sort of have the women take a slight backseat to that wall paper and have them sort of be, there's a symbiosis there. The women in the bookstore definitely, the clothing was a lot less sparkly, let's say, and more real life.

[00:08:22] And I wanted to let their environment sing by quieting the prints and quieting the palette. Whereas in Grayman's at the Couturier, you know, he gave us a very kind of soft canvas,

[00:08:36] like the wallpaper was soft pinks and really muted so that we could really dial up the fashion in those scenes, which we did. Boy, howdy did you! The fashion shows, I called them, they were just... Yeah. That's why I say hashtag.

[00:08:57] Because you're like, all these dresses and gowns and these outfits are so spectacular. They just, so they take up so much space visually. But how much did you design yourself versus sourced from, like, how much of these are actual period dresses?

[00:09:16] In the fashion show, I think because we had to name them, we had to use call outs. We had to use those particular designers. So I couldn't design a gown and say it was Martin Star. It had to be Martin Star.

[00:09:32] So in those particular scenes, that was all original vintage. Wow. To the point where I believe that the one kind of harem, Martin Star two-piece harem outfit that Kristen Wiig comes out wearing where Allison Janney has the gown version.

[00:09:52] That two-piece, by the time she had it on for like after lunch, we shot a couple scenes before lunch. After lunch, they were completely disintegrated, the pants. Oh my god! Oh no! We had to be really careful about how it was shot.

[00:10:08] Yeah, that galanos piece that Allison Janney comes out, that's all original vintage. We had some incredible resources that we were able to call original designer vintage. It's so cool. It's really a treat to be able to be in the same room with those outfits, let alone get

[00:10:26] to kind of play and just dissect them and see how they were made and built and put together. And yeah, it was such fun. I can imagine. When talking to the production design team as well, they did a lot of research and there

[00:10:42] were a lot that they found and lots of references that they had. And there was, they talked about this mixture of stuff that they had to make based on design things and then things that they were able to find themselves.

[00:10:54] I'm wondering when it came to the clothes, were there anything that like designs that you found in your research that you recreated yourself? Yeah, I mean, other than that, the fashion shows and the call outs to those specific

[00:11:11] designers, we did build, I would say at least 40% of what you see on this. Wow. Almost all of Allison Janney's costumes are custom. A lot of Carol Burnett's are custom. I would say a good 40% of Kristen Wigg's are custom.

[00:11:28] We would get pieces from all around the country and kind of look at them, dissect them. And then we would make them out of different fabric with a little different inspiration. Obviously you're dealing with different body types.

[00:11:44] So a lot of what you can find isn't in a size run. It's a tiny garment that's going to disintegrate after staring at it too long. So you really have to be mindful of what you need for shooting, which is oftentimes doubles.

[00:12:01] So we would either take something that was vintage and recreate it using fabric printing, a fabric printing technique and print the actual original print on a silk or cotton that was a little sturdier. Or we would just get fabric and recreate pieces based on 60s patterns.

[00:12:23] For instance, Maxine, her beach ball gown was seam for seam based on a Givenchy gown I saw in a YouTube video of 1967. Then I was able to find images of that gown that was Vogue or Bazaar or something of that period.

[00:12:44] He had done it in a bright fuchsia and there was all this hand beading. We were able to kind of figure out how the capelet worked. We recreated that gown silhouette for her beach ball look. She looks gorgeous in that scene. I absolutely love it. Yeah, it's great.

[00:13:03] But you know, Maxine, what a character. You have Kristen Wiig who's such a natural comedian. And then you have this character on top of it, this outsider who desperately wants to fit in. What was it like to design for this character?

[00:13:21] What was your sort of guiding principle for her outfits? You know, it was really fun because we started out, we didn't know who she was. She didn't know who she was. It was very early on in the process.

[00:13:36] And we had just sort of started to try on different silhouettes. We had all these incredible original Pucci sets and things. We had a gamut. And really what ended up working well and how she sort of immediately had the undergarments,

[00:13:54] the waist cincher and the cone-shaped bust and started to put on these sort of more fitted, structured doll-like silhouettes, those sort of Mary Quaint kind of shapes. And she would just immediately start posing like Barbie. She just had that pose immediately.

[00:14:15] And then Maxine started to come to life. And then that Brigitte Bardot blonde wig came into play and the tan skin. And all of it sort of worked together. But we really had this little girl, innocent doll-like optimism, joyful palette quality to her.

[00:14:36] And it's always a lot of florals, a lot of bows, very, very Sherbert palette. Whereas the North Star, which is Evelyn, was more of a jewel tone, kind of peacock colors, very elegant.

[00:14:52] Her caftans had a nice drape to them and a flow to them, almost a restraint to them. Whereas Maxine is always matching her bag and her shoes. And it's very thought out where there was obviously a real elegance to

[00:15:09] Evelyn that she was trying to emulate, but just never could quite get there. Absolutely. Well, it's like the Luxembourg dress. Oh my God, that dress. Which is hilarious. But also it feels so very her. It feels so very Maxine.

[00:15:29] It's almost to the point where we're like, did she just, in a nod to Carol Burnett, just take some drapes off the wall and tie it around her? Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.

[00:15:39] There is something a little off in some of those moments, like even the outfit she wore to the space party, the orange shift dress. It's a great dress, but that hat, it's not on correctly.

[00:15:52] It should be further to the front, but it's sort of framing her like as if she was Madeline or something in Paris. And of course her outfit in the Havana Nights ball, that ridiculous turban and over the top dress. And there's just always something.

[00:16:10] And that little, you know, of course the little funeral pat she took off. It's like always something a little off and sometimes not just a little off, sometimes just absurd and ridiculous. But that's the seriousness of the series, which I think is something that I was really,

[00:16:31] really attracted to that aspect of it, not taking itself too seriously. Yeah. It's definitely one of my favorite aspects of the series too. And I'm glad, you know, if you're talking about Wild and Crazy Fashion, you're having

[00:16:46] to design for Carol Burnett, who has worn some of the most legendary pieces of fashion ever created by Bob Mackie. And in the 60s and 70s, like around this period, did your brain explode? How did you approach that?

[00:17:06] I could never be in the same room with her without crying. I was a disaster for the first 10 fittings. And she was so gracious. You know, she would just clasp my hands and look me in the eye to say, oh my God, you

[00:17:23] know, Bob would be so proud of you. And then I would have to my cutter to Valerie Kaiser, who's so talented. She and I both would just crumble as soon as she left the room. Just like that happened. That just happened. Finch me. Yeah.

[00:17:38] Carol Burnett is yeah, just I can't even articulate what that was like. It was really 100% a career high. And just to be complimented by her, acknowledged by her, seen by her and just let she was so excited to go there.

[00:17:56] You know, like if I brought her a robe, even if she was in a coma with Marabu, like sticking in her lipstick, it was so giant and puffy and always wanted more jewelry and always wanted it to be brighter and more.

[00:18:11] And she was so funny and so excited to go there. And I learned so much from her. It was just an absolute delight. A legend for a reason. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

[00:18:27] I know we're coming up on the end of our time together, but I wanted to ask, you know, like there's it's such a wild ensemble full of so many big characters. Which was your favorite character to design for? Oh, my favorite character. I mean, Evelyn was pretty fun.

[00:18:46] Yeah. She is so elegant and such a chameleon. And I had such a great time collaborating with Jill Crosby, her wig designer. We just had a blast. And oftentimes Allison wouldn't even see the garment until it was like at the finishing stage and we needed a quick fitting.

[00:19:07] And she always made it so much better than it was in the workroom. You design something in a bubble sometimes because the actors don't have time for fittings and everyone's moving at a frightening pace.

[00:19:20] And you're just making something off at Western Costume in a bungalow and you bring it to set and it goes on the body and you're just holding your breath. And every single time Allison would just like just make it 50 percent better and more elegant.

[00:19:37] And she was just she was incredible to design for. I loved it so much. Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. Everything floated on her in a way that was really special. It's very cool. And considering the setting of this, you know, there were so many events and gatherings.

[00:19:56] Was there any particular event or maybe even just a scene that you really had fun with the costumes in particularly more than the others? Oh, I mean, they were all really fun. It's very hard to pick just one.

[00:20:11] I would say probably the beach ball, because we got to kind of pull from sea creatures and do starfish showgirls and jellyfish showgirls and mermaids that were swinging from the sky. And, you know, it was an under the sea theme.

[00:20:27] So the waiters and waitresses had custom made sailor costumes and satin. And it was just so ridiculous. It was it was like designing a musical within a musical, within a, you know, Apple series. Yeah.

[00:20:42] Gabe, our showrunner, is enjoys all of that so much because he has a theater background and really had trust in us to just kind of go there. And I knew that we couldn't push it far too far. He's a maximalist, as you know, sometimes I can be.

[00:21:01] And so, yeah, that was a true highlight of my career, for sure. Well, that's fantastic to hear. And you definitely I think you walked that line really well between the maximalism and the reality of the situation. So thank you. Thank you, Alex, for joining us.

[00:21:17] Thank you for your work on this series. It was a lot of fun. Much. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having a chat with me today. Do you work, Maxine? God, no. You want to work? God, no. You really want all this?

[00:21:28] More than anything I've ever wanted in my whole life. Like to take a few pictures? Maxine, you're the lead story. I see us all as one sisterhood. Are people looking for something new? Let me tell you something about the Palm Royale. It's a nightmare.

[00:21:50] And that's all thanks to you. Don't underestimate Adela Court. I would never. The Palm Beach is just a shell game. Everybody has a secret. You two behave. You don't have to have money. The blackmail is right here. You don't know the half of it.

[00:22:09] What in fires of Pales Pits is going on here? Off we go. Hello, I'm Nadia with Next Best Picture. How are you today? Great. Great. It's really lovely to meet you. Thanks very much for your time.

[00:22:21] I'm super excited to dive in here and talk about one of the best new shows out there right now, Palm Royale. I'm really fascinated by the creative process behind scores. And I think your score for the show fits it like a glove. It's fun. It's twisty.

[00:22:38] It's incredibly lavish. It has this incredible drive and it's powerful notes of poignancy. The main titles especially embody the excitement that I'm about to get into with each episode. And throughout the show, you really get these beautiful tracks that feel incredibly thematic and very playful.

[00:22:57] And just to start, I'm wondering when you first got involved with the show, how much detail were you given about the story going into it? Did you have these characters and plot points to think about early on in the process? Well, there's two entry points, right?

[00:23:13] When there's the point where you're asked to pitch for the show. And then there's the point where you're asked to work on the show. And the amount of detail that you get between those two different points is drastically different.

[00:23:29] So when you're asked to pitch on the show, you are given a frustratingly small amount of information about the show you're pitching for. And it can be so difficult to guess at what direction. Now, often the filmmakers haven't actually even gone to camera yet and they might not

[00:23:48] even know themselves. They don't want to be too narrow or prescriptive. And so they're hoping to cast a wide net. But by the same token, they play things really close to the chest and it can be really challenging when you're pitching for a show.

[00:24:05] On this show, the only information I was really given by Abe Sylvia was the reference to the photography of Slim Erince. So you can imagine there's nothing direct there musically. I mean, look, Abe knows music really, really well.

[00:24:23] I've worked with him many times before and he's a trained musician himself and a dancer. He's been on Broadway and he knows it all. So he could definitely go into great length about a musical direction if he wanted to. But he didn't.

[00:24:38] He just said, check out this photography and it's based on this book. And so I did and I put together the best pitch that I could for the show. But the other challenge you run into when you're pitching, of course, is you're often

[00:24:54] asked to create a show with people. You know, it hasn't necessarily been done before or you haven't done it before. And so I don't reach back into my repertoire and be like, oh, well, let me pick from the other comedies that were set in the late 60s.

[00:25:12] You're pitching for the opportunity to create this, you know, sui generis. And so that's a challenge. You have to use oblique connections and hope that the filmmakers are excited by something that you're doing and are able to see that you would have the ability to do what they

[00:25:25] want to do, assuming that they know what that is. Now, skip forward to when you actually start the show. At that point, we have a terrific music supervisor in George Draculias and also Ian Herbert.

[00:25:36] And them, along with Abe, they had created this wealth of needle drops of songs from the 60s that made sense for the show. And they were going to use a lot of them in the show. They're going to license, you know, there's a lot of licensed songs.

[00:25:52] Abe likes to work that way with a real hand in glove tradeoff and passing of the baton between score and song and back and forth and sometimes even on top of each other.

[00:26:03] You know, for me, I wanted to really dive into the sound of these amazing singers and these amazing recording artists and just get that kind of sound, you know, immerse myself in it, soak in it, and then think about the themes for the characters.

[00:26:21] And the characters are so fun to accompany on their crazy journeys. It's challenging because they, you know, we have equal parts drama and comedy. And, you know, Kristen Wiig's performance is, you know, she can turn on a dime, but very, you know, very inspirational.

[00:26:39] So that's a little bit of how I began, you know, the two beginnings. Yeah, for sure. And going back to that, the comedy and the drama elements plus the period place, plus

[00:26:48] the location itself, I imagine there must have been a lot of ground and a lot of avenues for you to explore and experiment with. And I'm wondering how far did that research into the 60s go?

[00:26:59] Like, did you have particular influences that you found yourself returning to or certain sounds and location sets that you kind of incorporated into your process? Yeah. So it's, you know, it's not a documentary and it's not about the length and the breadth

[00:27:15] of all music that happened in the 1960s. It was more about, you know, for me, like the music, I think that perhaps these characters would be listening to and the music that kind of spoke to their generation. And sometimes that meant music from the 50s or 40s.

[00:27:29] Sometimes it doesn't, you know, these are mature women. They're not teenagers. And so it's not necessarily about having our finger on the pulse of like what was, you know, the number one hit on the radio necessarily.

[00:27:39] And it also didn't really fall to me, I felt, to really strongly address like the counter cultural part of the 1960s as we were, you know, doing a lot of listening. One of the composers that we did narrow in on was Henry Mancini.

[00:27:53] We really, you know, his treasure trove of compositional delights. And then as the show progresses, Bernard Herrmann became more apropos to the score. And so at one point, our brief, you know, in a meeting, you know, we said, you know,

[00:28:09] kind of Mancini meets, you know, Herrmann, but Latin. And then there's, of course, the setting of Miami Beach in Florida, you know, just a stone store from Cuba. And that's, yeah, that's some of the composers that we turn to for inspiration.

[00:28:22] Yeah, I really feel that Herrmann-esque element as well, especially I am in love with the main titles. It's so grand and commanding. There's something about it that feels kind of old fashioned too.

[00:28:34] It's full of emotion and impact, and it sets the mood for the show so incredibly well. The change in speed is at around the 50 second mark. I love that too. And I was just, I'd love to know how that track came about.

[00:28:46] And did you develop that fairly quickly or was it something that was more of a gradual process as you were kind of getting the feel of the soundscape of the show? Well, the way that the show score will come together, you don't get forever to work on

[00:29:01] the main title. You do, you know, decisions are being made. You have a little bit of time, but as you're scoring, you know, you have a very dangerous calculus to figure out of like, because any time that you spend trying to pitch to have

[00:29:14] your music used in the main title is time that you're taking away from scoring the actual episodes that you know you absolutely have to do. And the main title is only a possibility. It's not for sure that they don't use a song, for example.

[00:29:28] Thematically, the main title came out of themes for Maxine. Those are Maxine's themes. And it made sense, you know, it's really about Kristen Wiig's character and she drives the plot forward. So and her character just is too big for one theme.

[00:29:44] So we have multiple themes for her and the main title ends up, gets to take us kind of on a journey. I mean, it's a little bit like, you know, we wanted to be able to, you know, one of

[00:29:53] the directors that Sylvia really adores and myself also is Pedro Aldomovar. And so, you know, and his films are never just one thing, right? You know, they're always, you know, this, then it becomes that and it could be a comedy

[00:30:08] now, it's a drama, now it's a musical, now it's something else. So yeah, we really felt it was OK to kind of be, you know, all things to all people for a minute and 10 seconds, you know, and we'd crafted it as we went.

[00:30:19] You know, it was great to be able to say, oh, yeah, we can do a little transition in between. You know, I was very inspired by the kind of the graphic design of the main title as well. It's kind of a Saul Bass, kind of a retro look.

[00:30:34] And so that was inspiring as well. And you can see there's like there's some direct musical, you know, tone painting, you know, where the visuals and the music are kind of really working together. So yeah, that's part of how we did it. Yeah.

[00:30:49] You mentioned the character work of Maxine and it got me thinking about how each character kind of has their own theme and their own particular sound. I think of a track like Norma's Game, which it's got this classical feeling with the heavy,

[00:31:02] heavy piano and it kind of feels like you're the theme of a seasoned pro with a playful side. And that kind of encompasses the iconic Carol Burnett and her energy. And then there's something like Tip of the Barbarian Spear, which has more of an intensity

[00:31:15] to it and it aligns with Allison Janney's performance in the moment that it drops. And I'm wondering what was it like scoring to the screen company of the actors like Allison and Carol and Kristen Wiig?

[00:31:27] How did their work kind of inspire the direction that you were you were taking? Ich schwöre feierlich, dass ich ein Tu nicht gut bin. Du auch? Dann schnapp dir deine Rumtreiber und erlebe das 8. Abenteuer von Harry, Ron und Hermine.

[00:31:44] Denn die Magic Weeks sind wieder da bei Harry Potter und das verwunschene Kind in Hamburg, wo Magie live auf der Bühne Wirklichkeit wird. Spare jetzt bis zu 30% unter magicweeks.de Somebody like Carol Burnett in the first couple of episodes is doing more with her eyebrow

[00:32:06] or her eye lid than the other characters are doing with their whole bodies. It was really, really fun to score her character. And her character has kind of a she's like the old guard. But as the show progresses, we're able to see that there's this real sinister vein

[00:32:29] that becomes more and more evident as we go on. And so in terms of like thinking about like, I like to also connect not just like themes like melodies and harmonies, but also even like specific instruments so that the instrumental

[00:32:43] color, you know, we could attach to the characters as well. So they, you know, their themes would generally be played on specific instruments. So Carol's character, you know, yeah, starts to play really into more of the Bernard Herman influence as we go on.

[00:32:56] And so her character, I attached the accordion to in the early part of the show, because that's kind of like a little more Lawrence Welk, a little more old fashioned sound and like the waltz. And the waltz in episode one is where we first hear her theme.

[00:33:11] But as things progress, we start to hear more of the contrabass clarinet that becomes her voice. And that's really a nod to Hitchcock and Herman. But yeah, but their performances were absolutely inspiring. And I have, you know, I'm working to picture when I'm writing the themes.

[00:33:28] And so I'm absolutely taking their performance in and just hoping that I'm supporting it and embellishing it and broadening it. So for sure. And in addition to the performances, there's also this practicality to some of the tracks

[00:33:43] to like the use of the martini shakers and the pill bottles. Where did that idea come from to incorporate the very particular sounds around you into the tracks? Well, you know, it's on the screen. Right.

[00:33:58] And so, you know, these characters are drinking martinis all day long and popping pills all day long. And it occurred to me as I was making myself a grasshopper. I, you know, I look, I wanted to, you know, get into the show.

[00:34:13] I don't want it to really kind of, you know, live it and breathe it as I worked on it. And, you know, my wife was a little bit, she's like, what are you, why are you drinking a grasshopper in the middle of the afternoon? I'm working.

[00:34:24] That's what I was. And so while I was making that, I was like, you know, this, this, you know, it's not something that you would hear, you know, if I didn't tell people, they wouldn't necessarily know.

[00:34:33] But it was a fun connection to the characters to be like, this is a fun way to lean into the Latin side of the jazz. And we could use the color of the martini shaker and we can use the colors of pills and pill bottles.

[00:34:46] And yeah, it was like, it's just a nice kind of little intellectual connection that, you know, for this kind of a show, I'm not going to build an instrument from found materials and I'm not going to record the sounds of some specific geographical location and try

[00:35:03] and create that into music. You know, I just need to really be as authentic as I can about the style, the style of music style of the 60s and jazz and easy listening and Latin. So that's what I tried to do. For sure.

[00:35:20] And I was also reading that you recorded with a live orchestra. And I was wondering what that experience was like and what you felt that that added to the overall, the overall sound? Well, it goes back to the even to the earliest ideas about the show.

[00:35:36] You know, Slim Aaron's photographs are, you know, the rich at play. One of the things that you see is just luxury, right? It's about the best of everything and the highest quality. So for me, you know, the most luxurious, you know, expensive sound is the orchestra.

[00:35:54] And it helps that the orchestra was a popular sound in the 60s for even for popular music. We also thought about making the show as if the show was made in the 60s.

[00:36:08] So, you know, so again, like the composers that we were inspired by, you know, they were, you know, working in the 60s. And we endeavored to use a methodology that was more popular back then where we had strong

[00:36:19] themes, strong melodies and also, you know, an orchestral, a nice orchestral score. That's something I have a lot of experience with. I've done a lot of orchestrations in my career. So I have a lot of experience with the orchestra and it's second nature to me.

[00:36:31] It's very easy for me to bring that into the score. But it's a very ambitious idea when you start to think about it for television. The main reason that, you know, orchestra doesn't end up on television scores probably isn't even the budget.

[00:36:45] It's the time, the deadlines and the pace of generating of material for television is really, really restrictive. So we set a really ambitious goal and we're really lucky that Apple supported us and we were really pleased with the result.

[00:37:00] Yeah, you definitely get that sound that, you know, there's each character has their own sound, but then you also get the sound of an idea that is bigger than them. The sound of the extravagant, lavish life, the sound of aspiration, the sound of duplicitousness

[00:37:13] that all kind of comes together beyond the characters. And I mean, the show itself is full of all these little revelations and the character's motivations. And I was wondering what's it like to score the twists and the turns of the story as it goes along?

[00:37:31] You never want to be ahead of the characters. It's much better to be playing a reaction than it is to have any kind of foreknowledge orchestrally. You want to get, you want to arrive early, never early.

[00:37:45] You know, this is a little tangential, but, you know, also to, for this show in particular, but often, often for comedy, one of the best ways for music to play comedy is not to like wink and say, this is comedy.

[00:38:00] This is funny now, but actually to take the characters dead serious and be with there in the moment. And usually they, like the characters themselves are very serious. Like they have really funny reactions to their situations, but the characters themselves are really, really serious.

[00:38:19] So we did that very often on this show. We took the stakes for what they were and we weren't winking omnisciently at the characters. We were playing the drama and I think it makes a nice foil for the, for the comedic performance.

[00:38:35] Every element of the show, the score fits like a glove to a tee. It feels like it's made for the sound that you bring to it. It's like it's made for this story and it's such an incredible, incredible achievement.

[00:38:49] I know that we're coming up on the end of our time here, but as we wrap up, I wanted to ask if there's anything that you're working on at the moment that you can share with us here at Next Best Picture?

[00:38:59] Well, there's a hope springs eternal that Apple will have us back for a second season. I can't say anything definite about that yet, but I'd be really happy to go and continue to play in the playground musically that we've created.

[00:39:15] And there's other things here and there, but for me, for my career, I've never actually been able to really plan too far in the future. I'll often get a call on a Friday and I'm on a project on Monday that I didn't even know about the previous week.

[00:39:28] So I'm just trying to enjoy the moment that I have now, but yeah, I'm sure there'll be something. If you ask me next week, I'll be able to tell you. For sure. Is there a sound, I'm just wondering in terms of dream projects, do you have something like

[00:39:43] that in mind? Is there a particular sound that you've always wanted to experiment with or even a different period piece? Do you kind of have those ideas swirling? Well, you know, look, first off, this is a dream show.

[00:39:55] It's absolutely a dream come true and working with Abe is a dream as well. But there is a moment in this show where I get to audition for a Marvel movie for about one and a half minutes.

[00:40:09] There's a science fiction element that pops up just for a second. And so, yeah, it would be fun to bring the orchestra to bear on a nice space opera. That sounds incredible. And we at Nice Best Picture are all here for it.

[00:40:25] Well, Jeff, it was such a pleasure to speak with you. This was so fascinating to learn more about the process of composing a score. Thank you so, so much for your time and congratulations on this fantastic show, Palme Royale. Thank you for your questions.

[00:40:40] I appreciate it very much. You're in over your head. And girl, you don't even know it. I am never in over my head. It would be disrespectful to my hairdresser. Touche. In Palm Beach, a secret is like a loaded gun. No, no, no, no.

[00:40:59] You never know when it will go off. Or who it might hit. Ladies! I know, yeah, surprised to see me considering you left me for dad. Welcome everyone to the Next Best Picture podcast where we are talking with Sean Carlos

[00:41:20] and Ellen Reed, the production designer and set decorator for the series Palme Royale on Apple TV+. John, Ellen, thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for having us. Thank you. Glad to be here.

[00:41:35] I'm very glad you're here as well because Palme Royale is one of my favorite series that I've watched in a while. And it's a very, very unique series tonally. It's both dramatic and comedic.

[00:41:54] It's kind of this version of the end of the 60s that isn't quite real but also is. So I'm wondering, you know, what was your design brief for the series when you signed on to do it and started working on it?

[00:42:14] What was the look that they were going for? Yeah, the very first interview I had with director and executive producer Kate Taylor and John Norris was that they wanted the complete series to look like shot after shot of Slim Aaron's photography.

[00:42:33] So beautifully composed pictures with slow-moving cameras living in wides where the environment and the costumes really brought to life the characters of the women and our secondary characters in the story. Immediately, Ellen and I grabbed every Slim Aaron's photographic anthology and poured through them tagging photos.

[00:42:51] At the same time, our costume designer Alex was doing the same thing and then we swapped books and realized we'd all been tagging the exact same images. So we knew there was an alignment from the very beginning on kind of the tone.

[00:43:03] And so just having the wealth of vision that was given to us through Slim Aaron's photography of the period, not all of it was specifically in Palm Beach, but it was like worldly, right? International. And that's what these women would have been doing in the time, right?

[00:43:20] They would have been traveling the world to Acapulco, to Cairns. So we were able not only to see their lifestyle in Palm Beach, but really like globally what their lifestyle is like in terms of their day-to-day and travels.

[00:43:31] And so we started just amassing an amazing research catalog from Slim Aaron's and then delving further into interior designers of the time and other sort of resources that could give us clues into that really upper echelon lifestyle.

[00:43:46] And I think tonally for us, it was so important between Ellen and I that these women are hyperbolic, but they're grounded in a sense of reality and the environments needed to reflect that as well. We didn't want to go too far into like over-exaggeration and character because there

[00:44:03] needed to be some semblance of reality, even though it's kind of like a mixed level. Because we didn't want these women to become so foreign to our viewers that they can't relate because they're just such a ridiculous character. They already are.

[00:44:17] And so it was important that I think our environments were grounded in some semblance of reality. CBT Absolutely. And there is this sort of really great, almost heightened reality, but there's the heightened reality of the series as a whole, and then there's the heightened reality of almost each

[00:44:33] space we step into. It's sort of what you would imagine from that time, but on steroids, I guess. I'm curious because so much of this is so specific in terms of the places and the people that inhabit them.

[00:44:53] How much of these spaces were described in the screenplay versus it was just sort of general, these are the spaces and you guys run free? CBT Yeah, I mean, the scripts really did have good baselines for the types of rooms that we needed,

[00:45:12] but they didn't really – they gave us the freedom to explore the types of architecture and the type of design aesthetic. That was something that was really fun, I think, for Ellen and I to develop this. Right after going through some errands photography, we sat down.

[00:45:25] Every time we work on a project, Ellen's desk isn't a desk, it's a dining room table. That's how she loves to work and it's amazing because you can sit down at it and it's this big table and we just spread everything out.

[00:45:36] So we had amassed this incredible historical collection of research with our art department coordinator, Camma Hayes, through period architectural digest, Palm Beach travel magazines at the time. We started laying them out and grouping images together and we really started to see common

[00:45:52] patterns in terms of architecture and color that we felt we could attribute to each character. So we set rules at the very beginning for each character. For example, Dinah being from New York originally, upper east coast, very conservative, married to a diplomat.

[00:46:08] Everything on the facade is all clean, proper, Jackio, but everything behind the scenes is definitely anything but. So in order to help her with her guise, we was like, let's put her in something more Americana, colonial style, whites and pastel baby blues.

[00:46:23] So we established an architectural style and then a color palette. And then that was something that could be used for the decoration that came into it, the costumes that Alex was developing. And so we kind of do that with each character, Ellen being in jewel-toned Spanish revival,

[00:46:39] Norma being in this romantic Italianate villa with dusty pinks and sages and rich greens. So when we started creating this rule, it really was great for us to use it across the board between

[00:46:51] all the design crafts, but then also it allowed us to break the rules in purposeful ways when we wanted to. I'm really sort of gratified to hear that you came up with the architectural design and color scheme

[00:47:05] for each character, because something that really stood out to me while watching was how the Delacorte mansion, the insides are, like you said, these kind of sage greens. And then in the pool house on the Delacorte property, it's these really bright greens from

[00:47:24] all the foliage and trees and bushes and flowers that are in there. Was that a sort of conscious choice to connect those two spaces, but have them feel separate to the characters? Yeah, absolutely. It's amazing that you picked up on it.

[00:47:42] We were trying to do a lot of subconscious implementations as well. So in addition to the character-specific assignments, we also did regional assignments. So we broke the script down into the haves and the have-nots, the Palm Beach and the West Palm Beach.

[00:47:56] So when you look at Palm Beach, even though we were choosing very rich color tones for each of these women, Elle and I were like, it's so important that the women and their costumes are the forefront in those spaces.

[00:48:07] And so they have to be the most vibrant, the most intense. And so our color palette, although rich, was always slightly more pulled back in terms of saturation in the Palm Beach environments.

[00:48:18] Whereas in West Palm Beach, where life is a bit more real, culture is more vibrant, more obtainable, more approachable, and more relatable for most of us. We felt like that was actually where the true, real characters lived. And so we pumped up the vibrancy of those environments.

[00:48:34] So the nail salon, the bookstore, Maxine's motel room. And so if you look there, we have brighter oranges, teals, hot pinks, yellows, just a color that we didn't have necessarily in the environments of our Palm Beach women.

[00:48:50] So when those characters from West Palm Beach migrate over to Palm Beach, they kind of bring some of those color palettes with them and pollute the environments. So for example, in the pool house like you had just brought up, it's a Delacorte pool house.

[00:49:01] So it's bathed in the green tones of Norma's color palette. But if you look at the wallpaper in Norma's smoking room with the bar, it's a tone on tone, Damask by Farrow and Ball.

[00:49:13] But when you go into pool house with Robert, it's a similar idea, but it's flock wallpaper. And there's a kind of a richness. There's a tone, but there's a texture change that's softer.

[00:49:24] But then we bring the West Palm Beach colors like Ellen brought in the bright orange couches that are orange being a West Palm Beach color into that space. So you start to see the characters as they start to intermix with our West Palm Beach women.

[00:49:37] Like I said, they start to pollute the kit. And I mean that in a positive way, the environments with their colors. I love that description of it. I think that's a really fun way of looking at it.

[00:49:49] I'm wondering for both of you, how you go about with a project like this, how you went about straddling the line between being super period accurate, but also being this fantastical heightened version of this particular social set within this time period?

[00:50:12] Yeah, I think that this social set is a very global social set. They've traveled around the world and we wanted their environments to reflect that. And so a lot of people, when you think of that's a mid-century time period, you think

[00:50:27] of mid-century modern, which we employed a lot of that when we were in West Palm Beach. But when we go over to Palm Beach, these are people with centuries of history of families and furniture that they've been adopted over time.

[00:50:43] And they've maybe moved into mansions that had some furniture and then they've added to it. And so they would shop globally. They would hire interior decorators of the time to go and shop globally for them. And so we wanted to incorporate that in their spaces.

[00:51:01] But it was also important to note a time period that you're watching, right? Because otherwise you can be in a room and you really would have no clue as to what time period you were in.

[00:51:11] And so in that case, enormous parlor, we rooted the room in mid-century sofas. So there are period 1960s, period 1960s sofas that flank the fireplace. And then we reupholstered it in an appropriate fabric for the parlor room.

[00:51:29] But if you look around, there's some club chairs and things that are also very 1960s silhouettes. And so there's a clue there. Sometimes in other spaces, we've used alarm clocks or we used television. If there was an enormous bedroom, there's a television that is a color television, which

[00:51:46] at the time in 1969 was very, it was only seen in very wealthy homes. There's tells when you look around, there is a tell as to where the time period and where it stops. Right?

[00:51:57] So that was really important to us to show the breadth of the character and the depth of them, and then also to let you know what time period we're in. And to your point about like the liberties of being eccentric, I think it's very important

[00:52:13] for us to stay true to the period. And one thing that Ellen kind of brought to me very early on that just felt like it was the right fit immediately was the inclusion of interior designers of the time that would

[00:52:25] have been period appropriate and period accurate, but lived at that level of eccentricity that someone like Norma. So very early on, she introduced me to interior designer, Tony Duquette, prolific first time for me to kind of explore his work. But Ellen had known him for her entire career.

[00:52:40] And when you look at his work, it is theatrical, it is bold, it is avant-garde and it is cutting edge for the time. And that was exactly what we felt Norma needed to be. And so even those, I think elements of the show feel theatrical for us.

[00:52:55] It was very important that they were grounded in something that we could think was plausible of the time. I also think we probably downplay our neuroticism a lot. We're neurotic. Every book in the bookstore, for example, was period correct to 1969 or prior.

[00:53:12] I would go through and flip open and look at the copyright years and kick things off. And that's just something that I think that Ellen and I pride ourselves on and our teams

[00:53:21] pride ourselves on is really going to that level of detail to make sure that it's real. We also wanted the environments to speak to the characters themselves and to be a little bit of a tell about who that character was.

[00:53:33] And so when you go into Norma's environment, when you first walk into Norma's mansion, it's really quite a bright white space. It's almost devoid of any decoration in that space. And we sort of felt like, well, Norma wants the women to shine when they walk into her space.

[00:53:51] And so when you walk into a space where it's almost devoid of decoration, the women really stand out and they really shine. And they walk in and when they're ordering their cocktails, when Maxine has them there and they're like, I'll have this and I'll have that cocktail.

[00:54:03] And the cocktails get even more eccentric as they go. That's their presence walking in. And Norma wants this, right? Norma has a Rolodex that has all of their secrets. So if they come into the space and they feel bold and bright and they're really showing

[00:54:21] off all of their peacock feathers, so to speak, right? She wants that. You walk into her space and it gets a little darker as you go into the first sitting room. There's a lot of trees and plants.

[00:54:30] There's some nice yellow friendly sofas, come have a chat type of thing. And then you go into the smoking room and the smoking room is the bar room where you can have a nice cocktail, have a drink, loosen up.

[00:54:41] So much so that I don't think the women really maybe notice that there's a puppet display on the wall. I mean, she's the grand puppeteer of Palm Beach and there is literally this puppet display on the wall behind them as they're drinking.

[00:54:55] And you go into the next room and there's large spheres and there's a wall of guns and there's a wall. Yeah, there's a mirror of broken glass on there. There are no less than four bird cages in the room where...

[00:55:12] And two of them are quite large and they actually have chandeliers in them. So it's like almost that subliminal, she wants to capture these bright lights in a cage. And that's what the Rolodex is.

[00:55:27] So she has control and it was our little way of just a visual, subliminal visual method of showing Norma's character and how she traps her prey, so to speak. And the further you get into their domain, the darker and darker the rooms get, the

[00:55:45] vampier and the more oppressive. A great idea that I think really translates subconsciously. Yeah, I love that. And I loved all these little details that you're talking about in these sets. It's so great.

[00:55:59] In the Delacorte mansion, there was one particular piece of set decoration that stood out to me and that was the pink phone. Ah. Which felt like when I first saw it, I was like, did Maxine bring this from her previous place of living?

[00:56:22] So I wanted to ask, why the pink phone? You know, we added some elements of softness and pink into the smoking room a little bit. Again, to have it be a little more feminine in that space, because the smoking rooms traditionally

[00:56:36] in those days were very masculine dominated spaces. And so they were always in dark woods and dark colors. And so for her space, even though it's in that sort of sagey green color, we wanted to add some more femininity. And so we added the pink phone.

[00:56:51] We had a whole collection of phones that our buyer, Kathy Rosen, went and shopped early on. We knew we needed a ton of phones for the show, so we bought them. There is a resource where you can buy old phones.

[00:57:01] And we bought them in a multitude of colors, which was really fun. You know, so pink was selected for that room. And the seating in that room is also in pinks. And those are traditionally, if you look at the shape of the chairs, they're more of a

[00:57:15] masculine looking chair. Instead of putting a masculine fabric on it, what we did was we took a traditionally masculine fabric such as houndstooth, and we used it in pink. And so it's a nod to what the room was, but we've made it more of a feminine color.

[00:57:32] And the same on the other chairs. We wanted to do like a suiting type of fabric. I found a fabric that looked like a Chanel suit, and it had the nubbiness of like a Chanel suit.

[00:57:43] It had a silver thread that would run through it that was very typical of the Chanel suits. And so that's the fabric that's on the other chair in that room. And so that's where the pinks come in. I love that.

[00:57:55] And now I'm curious, you talked about some of these things that you got and edited yourself. How much for this was sourced versus things that you fabricated yourself based on designs or pictures that came up in your research?

[00:58:11] I would say it was probably, I don't know, maybe 60-40 or something along those lines. We did a lot of fabrication. We have wonderful resources in this town for prop houses and period pieces. And so that was a tremendous help. There were items that I wanted to make.

[00:58:30] Upholstered tables were big in the time, and I thought that was so fun. And they're not easily found now. So I would buy dye tables of similar shapes and then find fabrics and we'd upholster them and then put trim on them. And that was quite fun.

[00:58:46] Almost all the upholstery had to be reupholstered to fit our color scheme and so that we can control the color scheme that we wanted. And things like umbrellas typically need to be manufactured.

[00:58:56] We were able to find a few that we could use as is, but most of the umbrellas were manufactured. I think there was one we were able to purchase and then add some trim to, but the rest were all custom made.

[00:59:07] And then the chaise lounges all had custom upholstery on them to fit the time period, that type of thing. Sure, sure. One of the other props or pieces of set decoration, I guess, in the series that stood out to me

[00:59:21] as something that was really unique and made me think about the time period and the history is in the bookstore, Our Bodies, Our Shelves, which is such a great name. When Robert, the character played by Ricky Martin, goes to the Gay Studies aisle and picks

[00:59:41] up a copy of Giovanni's Room that has on the front page a lot of men have signed it with their phone numbers. I'm assuming that this was something that was in the script for that episode, but I'm

[00:59:55] wondering if you found in any research that this was an actual practice at that time and how you went about putting those messages in there. Yeah, this was something that was definitely scripted, book content and everything that came from our creator Abe Sylvia.

[01:00:15] It was something that the prop master Parker Swanson researched with Abe to find the period correct book. And I know that there were a lot of conversations that the two of them had about the type of

[01:00:26] signatures and notes that would be left in the book that would be period correct, because we were always trying to be very careful of contemporary colloquialisms that would not necessarily be said or used in the time period.

[01:00:36] And so that was a bit more like in Parker's hands, but I do know that there was a lot of care and conversation as pretty much everything in the show with Abe. He's really like a strong visionary with period accuracy, but also like fluidity to

[01:00:50] finding amazing resources or research or character moments where an actor delivering something in a performance. And it kind of will shift the rest of the season because he'll discover something in a prop or a person in their performance and all of a sudden that becomes a storyline.

[01:01:05] And so that was really kind of like just in general, in terms of the ethos of the show, like a really amazing culture where if Ellen found an amazing object that inspired one of the actors, then it became a storyline.

[01:01:17] So for example, she had a, we wanted to have a taxidermic flamingo. Originally, we were going to have it in the Delacorte mansion in the smoking room, but it didn't quite work out tonally. So we had it made because you can't find taxidermic flamingos.

[01:01:34] And it was made by this incredible artist based out of New York. And it's considered like a vegan taxidermy. It's all from resourcefully sourced chicken feathers that have fallen off the legs, the beak, everything is sculpted. Oh wow.

[01:01:46] And so we felt very like comfortable with that because I think both Ellen and I are strong on ethics about that type of thing. And so when it didn't quite work for the Delacorte mansion, and then we learned about the storyline

[01:02:01] that was just discovered in last night's episode nine, Evelyn, she proclaims I used to be a showgirl. And so we kind of heard about that about midway through the season. And we realized, okay, Ellen and I were like, Evelyn is a peacock. She's a showgirl.

[01:02:16] Her background is flashy. And she's just translated that flashiness into her exuberance of wealth. But there's still like a backstory of this showgirl, right? So we kind of went with a storyline of birds for Evelyn. So her entire house is surrounded in birds.

[01:02:31] There's a tableau of tile mural behind her bathtub that you see that is all birds. And then her office study is just a bunch of taxidermy mixed with art that is part female portraiture, part still art of a bird that matches that female in the portrait.

[01:02:47] And then an actual taxidermic bird that matches that portrait of the bird like she's brought it to life and captured it in her little aviary that's her office. And so when we moved that flamingo into that study, and then Allison came into the set and

[01:03:01] was just like, this is incredible. And so in an episode where she has to pack up and leave the Rollins mansion, she's like, I'm 100% packing up the taxidermic birds and walking out with them.

[01:03:13] So it became this thing where she's walking through the hall with the albino ostrich and a line got written because of these incredible hilariously store set decoration objects that kind of like helped us push the character from an environmental point of view.

[01:03:28] And it literally became a tangible element that like drove storyline. I love that so much. That's incredible. Just, I mean, just the taxidermy and flamingo alone, but everything that's so great. I know we are coming up on the end of our time together.

[01:03:43] But before we go, I just wanted to ask a quick question to both of you of what was your favorite space to design in this series? Because there's a lot of them. That's a tough one. I think for me, it was probably the pool house.

[01:04:00] There was kind of an aura in there because we had an amazing greensman, Forest Terry. And so like Norma's parlor, the smoking room and the pool house were all builds on stage. And he would bring in so many plants into that space that actually the atmosphere of

[01:04:19] the stage would change. There'd be like a humidity and like it felt like Florida. And so in those spaces, and in particular in the pool house, once you walked onto the set, you'd have to kind of walk through a jungle to get into it.

[01:04:33] So you would leave like the bright LA exterior stage, walk into the stage door and then go through this tunnel of greens before you got into the set. So the time you got into it, you really felt like you were there.

[01:04:44] I mean, it felt like it humidity wise, it looked like it with the trees outside moving in the wind. And that pool room just had this unbelievably relaxed atmosphere between like the furniture and I think the color palette.

[01:04:55] A lot of times Ellen and I would just sneak in there and kind of hang out and just vibe in there. I think for me, it was like one of my favorite color wise.

[01:05:03] And I think just in terms of like the physical presence of being in it always had a really good aura. Now it's my turn, isn't it? I have to pick one of the children. That's truly hard. I know. Oh wow. You know, and it changes.

[01:05:19] I have to say I'm fickle. It changes. Sometimes I love the smoking room the best. I also in the episode hasn't aired yet, but the finale in the tent is spectacular. I mean, it was built from the mind of John Carlos.

[01:05:34] And then we took something from really from a napkin sketch to a stage and a half of a giant tent that is incredible, which you will see in episode 10. It looks incredible. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'd say it's probably between those two sets. I can see that.

[01:05:56] Let's turn the tables quickly and ask you what was your favorite? Oh, my favorite was actually the space for the Havana Nights Gala. That scene, I just really loved it.

[01:06:08] I love that you had the bridge in the middle that was like kind of a stage and how everything was the colors of everything, how it played with the costumes of the dancers and the dresses that everyone was wearing.

[01:06:23] I don't know that it's my favorite maybe, but it's the one that I kept coming back to. I want to be at that event. So thank you, John, Ellen. Thank you for your work on the show. Thanks so much for joining us today.

[01:06:36] This is really fun to talk with you. Thanks for having us. We really appreciate it. Hey, everyone. Thank you so much for listening to Dan Baer's interviews with the costume designer for Palm Royale, Alex Friedberg, and the production designer, John Carlos, and the set decorator,

[01:06:51] Ellen Reed, and Nadia Dalamante's interview with the show's composer, Jeff Toyne, here on The Next Best Picture Podcast. Palm Royale is now available to stream in full on Apple TV+, and is up for your consideration for all eligible categories at this year's Emmy Awards.

[01:07:08] You have been listening to The Next Best Picture Podcast. We are proud to be part of the Evergreen Podcast Network, and you can subscribe to us anywhere where you subscribe to podcasts.

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[01:07:29] Thank you all so much for listening, as always, and we will see you all next time.

[01:08:16] This is Chris DeMakes, guitarist and vocalist for Less Than Jake, and host of Chris DeMakes A Podcast, a songwriting podcast where every week I'm joined by an amazing guest to break down the writing, recording, and release of one iconic song from their career.

[01:08:32] In our giant Evergreen back catalog of episodes, we've had rock legends such as Dee Snider and Huey Lewis, punk rock favorites like Mark Hoppus, Fat Mike, and Brett Gurowitz, and up-and-coming artists of today such as Liz Stokes of The Beths and Genesis Owusu.

[01:08:48] We've had guests from all genres and styles of music, and I guarantee that if you peruse our back catalog, you'll see several episodes that'll make you say, Man, I gotta hear that. Whether you're a fan of music or a creator of music yourself, you'll take away a whole

[01:09:04] new appreciation for the songs you know and love. Chris DeMakes A Podcast is available for free on all the places you could possibly listen to podcasts, and new episodes come out every Monday.