Menstrual leave: Counter-productive or progressive? | Ep 116

[00:00:01] Are men and women born equal? No, definitely not. There are specific biological and physiological factors dividing the two genders. And we can fight for equal opportunities for the two genders only after acknowledging this fact. So while respecting the Supreme Court's observations on menstrual leave and its larger repercussions,

[00:00:25] we cannot help but delve into a deeper debate on the subject. Hi, you're listening to Onmanorama's explainer podcast, News Break, a weekly show that breaks down news in a clutter-free manner. This is Harita Benjamin and today we are diving into a topic that's been making headlines

[00:00:49] and storing debates. Menstrual leave policies in workplaces. Let's start with a brief overview of what happened. The Supreme Court bench, led by Chief Justice D.Y. Chandrajoot noted on July 8 that while introducing such a menstrual leave policy might encourage

[00:01:07] more women to join and stay in the workforce, there is also a concern that employers might be reluctant to hire women if it impacts workplace productivity. The court was hearing a petition seeking menstrual leave for female students and working women across India.

[00:01:26] My colleague Deepa Soman joins me today to discuss the subject further. So Deepa, what is your take on the subject? I or Nay for menstrual leave? Hi Harita, I'm backing menstrual leave all the way, especially as a woman who has been

[00:01:41] going through painful periods from the age of 12 and have been taking a day off every month for it. I'm diagnosed with no medical issues and I'm very active person. Doctors always say I'm very healthy and have regular periods.

[00:01:56] Still, I deal with this unfair anatomical condition that I have no control over. I didn't choose it right? True. Now think of this. A study that came out a few years ago said one in five Indian women have PCOS, polycystic ovary syndrome.

[00:02:15] It's a condition with a lot of discomfort, pelvic pain and the like alongside menstrual cramps. Now, women have different levels of pain and pain thresholds that's all true. But I believe as we have more women in the workforce now, it is only fair to give

[00:02:32] them at least one day a month as period leave. It's high time we do away with the eat a tablet, pretend you're fine, get to work philosophy. It's absolutely unfair. Agreed. But what do other women think about this?

[00:02:47] A few moments prior to this podcast, you actually took a survey across our office floor right? So what were you finding Ziba? Yes I did and so we have around six teams on our floor and I spoke to all the women

[00:03:00] in these teams who were on the morning shift. I asked whether they believe it is essential to have a day a month as period leave or not. 73% of them said yes and cited extreme pain and mood swings as reasons.

[00:03:15] Apparently they end up taking their sick leave to handle period cramps but when they actually fall sick, like if they twist their ankle or they get a flu or fever or anything, they don't have any leaves left for it.

[00:03:28] Therefore, they felt the division of leaves is not equal between genders who don't have to handle monthly periods. The other 27% said that period pain is a reality but they don't want to demand special allocation of period leaves because they feel it might result

[00:03:43] in not hiring enough women in the workforce. Yeah I think that is quite unfortunate right? Well, in a country like ours where women working in the sugarcane fields were asked to do histric dummy if they need work.

[00:03:55] I'm sure you remember this controversy from a few years ago right? Yeah. We can't blame women who fear that they would lose opportunities if they sought period leave. But menstrual leave policy is something that has been successfully implemented in many countries. Has it not Haridha? Absolutely Ziba.

[00:04:11] Actually I was reading upon it more since this Supreme Court verdict and many countries such as Japan, Indonesia, United Kingdom, Wales, Spain, Zambia, China, Taiwan and even South Korea have introduced menstrual leave policies. Japan in fact had menstrual leave policies in place since 1947.

[00:04:31] So women can take time off during their menstrual period if they experience difficult menstruation of heavy periods. This policy is widely recognized and accepted at their workplaces. Now South Korea for instance introduced menstrual leave in 2001,

[00:04:46] allowing women to take one day of menstrual leave per month as paid leave. Now this policy has been integrated into the country's labour laws. This is the same case in Indonesia where female workers are allowed two days of menstrual leave per month.

[00:05:03] In Zambia it's one day per month and in Taiwan it is three days a year. So however there are some arguments against this saying that what is the necessity of implementing a law on the matter? Can't it be a part of a company policy?

[00:05:20] Even the apex court said that this has to be a policy which is made by the government from the side of the union ministry of women and child development to formulate a policy on the matter. See I believe menstrual leave should be a law in India.

[00:05:37] This is because a law can ensure that women are menstruating trans people across all sectors, all income groups and all proficiency have the right to take at least a day off when they have periods. See a law ensures that not just work spaces with HR teams or

[00:05:55] considerate superiors get a menstrual leave. You know ours is a country that has discriminated against menstruating people right? So majority of those on periods don't open up about the issues they face and their suffer in silence even in their work spaces.

[00:06:10] We even have girls who stop going to school after they get periods isn't it? A law can acknowledge the universal nature of menstruation and how it can be difficult for those on periods to work as efficiently as others. If it's illegal right?

[00:06:24] Both a daily wage worker or a CEO gets the space to manage their menstrual issues without fear, discrimination or even losing their pay. Even showing it will also promote better sensible equality. Agreed but I also think the court made a valid observation

[00:06:41] when it said that the mandatory menstrual leave might actually impact the perception of women in workforce right? Now Ashwin J. Kumar, a colleague of ours has also joined in our news break to offer a male perspective on the matter.

[00:06:55] While we talk about menstrual leaves in work places, I think we should start from school days because I have a reason for this. I remember as a student when Ayas would come to a classroom, their arms holding a sanitary pad wrapped in newspaper.

[00:07:11] They would do their best to hold it away from our site, I mean boys, as though it was something forbidden. Looking back, I don't feel good about those moments because when we, the boys in the class would shamelessly, without any sensitivity, laugh, smirk and

[00:07:29] even enjoy crude comments exchanged among us. One of our classmates would be in severe pain, she would have come unprepared and Ayas and teachers were trying to help her. I was one among the boys who laughed during those moments because I was woefully unaware of the

[00:07:45] fact that she was in pain. She was finding it difficult. As I grew up, I understood if only somebody told us, beta parents, teachers that it is a biological phenomenon and sometimes it is not easy for girls to go

[00:07:59] through that spells of pain and crimes and it was downright silly to laugh at them. Once menstrual leaves are mandated from school days, the shades of taboo and shame surrounding periods could be gone. I mean that would be the first step to normalize it.

[00:08:14] As we all grow up to take up jobs and share work spaces in future, we would know that these days will be hard and it's perfectly okay if they take some days off or we made it flexible enough for them. Thanks Ashwin for sharing that really personal story.

[00:08:29] Though a majority of the male workforce in the country don't share the exact same view, I think an increasing majority are becoming receptive of the period leave policy nowadays like him. I'd also like to add a point of clarification here for the ones who argue that the productivity

[00:08:46] of the company will be hit by the menstrual leave policy. Not all women choose to avail this leave. Even global records show that not all women actually avail the leave while menstruating. In South Korea for instance, the percentage of women availing the period leave was only 19.7

[00:09:05] percent back in 2017 and Japan it was only 0.9 percent in the same year. But maybe the cultural taboo could also be one of the reasons why the figures are so low. But let's talk about my example here. Now I can work on my first day of periods almost 70

[00:09:22] percent of the time. I feel focusing on the work actually helps me to take my mind off the cramps right? But for the rest of the time that is a remaining 30 percent at least I can literally do nothing due to the pain.

[00:09:35] So what do you think Leba, what about you? So like I said before, ever since I had my first period it has been extremely painful and I don't even want to touch on the discomfort that starts 10 days before the period as

[00:09:48] PMs or the fact that I have a short 21 day cycle. I work out regularly, I eat healthy and my medical reports I am fine. Whenever I have asked doctors why I have such debilitating pain the answers I often get are

[00:10:03] oh you have a low pain threshold or it can be genetics or simply this you're stressed a lot and all that. Basically all I can do is pop a pill, rest, wait for my body to stop acting crazy you know and I end up taking one day of

[00:10:18] at least every month to handle periods and when I really fall sick this becomes an issue and that's been the story of my life. A depressing story indeed but now we need to look at another question with the court raised. Will employers actually shun women

[00:10:33] employees if menstrual leave is mandated? See if you look back at our history this discussion of will employers shun women has come up at many junctures when maternity leaves were introduced, when prevention of sexual harassment at workplace was introduced, when the need to movement

[00:10:51] happened all of this right? If you look at what happened in countries where menstrual law was implemented you can see it mostly increased productivity reduced absenteeism and there is no evidence of employers deciding against hiring women because of it.

[00:11:07] So such a fear I would say is just misplaced. Absolutely but let's see the law on menstrual leave is not going to be implemented soon. What are the alternative solutions that could be proposed to support women in experiencing menstrual pain without mandating this leave?

[00:11:24] How can companies actually for a foster or more inclusive and supportive work environment for women without facing backlash or discrimination? I don't want to restrict it just to companies you know. All workspaces, big or small, should be concentrated about it.

[00:11:43] If at all they come to a point where law is impossible. They should start with good washrooms. You know there are women who don't go to work on their period days because their workspace has no facility to dispose of pad or access to

[00:11:58] clean water or a clean toilet. Also educate the workforce in general about the existence of periods and how they can support them and straighten colleagues. Even the senior people, men or women in the workforce who had it tougher because of how their generation was

[00:12:14] should stop glorifying suffering in silence as some act of bravery or virtue. If an employee wants to misuse a leave be it a man or woman they can misuse it you know misuse any kind of benefit or leave be it the sick leave or casual leave or LTA.

[00:12:30] Right and to add to your point Deepa I think wherever possible the work from home facility can also be introduced till period leaves are in place at least. Yeah let workspaces be more understanding of those who ask for a day off during their periods.

[00:12:45] Yeah I think with that we can wind up our conversation for the day. Thank you so much Deepa for joining us as we continue to discuss and explore these questions. It's essential to consider the perspectives of all the stakeholders involved employees, employers and even policy makers.

[00:13:03] Let's hope that these stakeholders take the Supreme Court observations as a cue and engage in a proactive discussion to formulate a policy on this matter. So that's a wrap for today's episode of On Manorama's Newsbreak an explainer podcast which is produced by Haritha Benjamin with

[00:13:19] technical production by Ida Bruce Studios. It comes out every week and is available on all podcast platforms. Follow on manorama.com for more updates.