The Indian space programme, which began on November 21, 1963 with the launch of a Nike Apache rocket from Thumba, recently celebrated 60 years. Dr V R Lalithambika, distinguished scientist and former Director of the Directorate of the Human Spaceflight Programme at ISRO speaks about the journey of India's space programme in the past 60 years.
00:00:04
Speaker 1: The Indian Space program began on November 21st, 1963 with
00:00:09
Speaker 1: the launch of the Nike Apache rocket from Tumba. The
00:00:14
Speaker 1: launch was an international effort under the United Nations. The
00:00:18
Speaker 1: rocket came from the US, the sodium vapor payload from
00:00:21
Speaker 1: France and the range clearance from an M four helicopter
00:00:25
Speaker 1: from the then Soviet Union.
00:00:28
Speaker 1: The rocket and payload engineers were Indians. We have come
00:00:32
Speaker 1: a long way since today, India's space program has reached
00:00:36
Speaker 1: coveted heights under the leadership of the Indian Space Research
00:00:40
Speaker 1: Organization
00:00:42
Speaker 1: with Chandra and three. We have become the first nation
00:00:45
Speaker 1: to land on Moon's South Pole with Ghanian. We are
00:00:48
Speaker 1: navigating new heights in human spaceflight capability and with Aditya
00:00:53
Speaker 1: El One, we are navigating the mysteries of the Sun.
00:01:05
Speaker 1: Hi, you're listening to on Manorama Explainer podcast newsbreak, a
00:01:10
Speaker 1: weekly show that breaks down news in a clutter free manner.
00:01:13
Speaker 1: This is Harita Benjamin and today's episode is dedicated to
00:01:18
Speaker 1: the 60 years of the Indian Space program.
00:01:22
Speaker 1: Today we have with us, Doctor Wear LGA, distinguished scientist
00:01:27
Speaker 1: and former director of the Directorate of Human Space Flight
00:01:30
Speaker 1: program at the Ira Specialist in advanced launched vehicle technology.
00:01:36
Speaker 1: Dr Laliga has worked extensively on various ISO rockets, particularly
00:01:42
Speaker 1: the PSLV. She has also led the space agency's prestigious project,
00:01:47
Speaker 1: the Gagan mission.
00:01:48
Speaker 1: She was recently conferred with the top French civilian honor
00:01:53
Speaker 1: of Chevalier de la Legio Donne. So, congratulations, Doctor Laam Bear.
00:01:59
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank
00:02:02
Speaker 2: you, Harita.
00:02:03
Speaker 2: I look forward to our conversation.
00:02:05
Speaker 1: All right. So, uh it's been 60 years since the
00:02:08
Speaker 1: launch of uh Indian space program in 1963. And around
00:02:12
Speaker 1: the same time, you were also taking your baby steps
00:02:15
Speaker 1: a few miles away from Tumba, right? And uh you
00:02:18
Speaker 1: have joined VSC around 25 years later and also became
00:02:23
Speaker 1: a part of Isro thereafter. Now, if you are to
00:02:26
Speaker 1: look back, what do you think of the growth of
00:02:28
Speaker 1: uh Indian Space program and what has it achieved so
00:02:32
Speaker 1: far
00:02:33
Speaker 2: as you rightly put it? I also grew up along
00:02:36
Speaker 2: with the Indian Space program. Initially, we were just launching
00:02:40
Speaker 2: sounding rockets. We didn't have our own space infrastructure at
00:02:44
Speaker 2: that point of time. But over the years slowly, we
00:02:47
Speaker 2: have built up our launch vehicle capability
00:02:51
Speaker 2: from the PSLV to the GSLV Mach three, which is
00:02:55
Speaker 2: a really heavy lift launch vehicle.
00:02:57
Speaker 2: And we have achieved our founding father, Doctor Vikram Sarabhai
00:03:03
Speaker 2: vision to benefit space for the common man. And we
00:03:07
Speaker 2: have moved beyond that. So now we have a wide
00:03:10
Speaker 2: variety of missions, both the scientific missions, the space exploration
00:03:14
Speaker 2: missions and a wide variety of applications.
00:03:18
Speaker 2: And we have the launch infrastructure
00:03:22
Speaker 2: which is uh the Ricotta and we also have a
00:03:27
Speaker 2: large number of space assets which we are maintaining, right?
00:03:31
Speaker 2: And in addition to all this, we are able to
00:03:33
Speaker 2: carry out launches for other countries as well.
00:03:37
Speaker 2: So definitely the Indian Space program has reached a a
00:03:40
Speaker 2: level of maturity and there are now a lot of
00:03:44
Speaker 2: friends who are also coming in and uh this is
00:03:47
Speaker 2: going to become even more vibrant in the US,
00:03:51
Speaker 1: right? Uh So I know this is gonna be a
00:03:53
Speaker 1: difficult question. But if you were to pick a favorite
00:03:56
Speaker 1: moment in India space history, what would it be and
00:03:59
Speaker 1: why
00:04:00
Speaker 2: you are right? It is definitely a difficult question. Uh
00:04:04
Speaker 2: Probably
00:04:05
Speaker 2: one would be uh remembering or the most memorable
00:04:10
Speaker 2: instance would be where one is directly associated with. So
00:04:13
Speaker 2: I will pick two such a very challenging uh events.
00:04:17
Speaker 2: The first one which I would say is the first
00:04:20
Speaker 2: launch of the GSLD Mach three. Now, it's called the
00:04:23
Speaker 2: LVM three. So that is our heavy lift launch vehicle,
00:04:26
Speaker 2: which I was mentioning at that time, the cryogenic stage
00:04:30
Speaker 2: was uh in just getting developed. So we had the
00:04:33
Speaker 2: first experimental mission, it was called an LVN three X
00:04:37
Speaker 2: mission
00:04:37
Speaker 2: where we had the first two stages. And on top,
00:04:40
Speaker 2: we had another mission that was the crew module reentry
00:04:45
Speaker 2: experiment and it was called a care mission. So that
00:04:49
Speaker 2: was also a precursor to the Human Space program.
00:04:52
Speaker 2: So it was a it was a resounding success and
00:04:56
Speaker 2: it gave so much of satisfaction to all of us
00:04:58
Speaker 2: who were involved, both the mari part and also the
00:05:02
Speaker 2: care mission where the module was brought down and it
00:05:05
Speaker 2: splashed down safely in the ocean. And gave us a
00:05:08
Speaker 2: lot of confidence on the external uh characteristics and the
00:05:13
Speaker 2: thermal characteristics of the crew module,
00:05:15
Speaker 2: which uh definitely that experience has come in very useful.
00:05:19
Speaker 2: Later on. I would also like to mention a different
00:05:21
Speaker 2: class of launch vehicles that is the reusable launch vehicles.
00:05:25
Speaker 2: The shape is like an like an airplane. So we
00:05:29
Speaker 2: had a, we had a demonstrator and this is really
00:05:32
Speaker 2: a technology for the future. And that also was a
00:05:35
Speaker 2: great where the control is done through the aerodynamic surfaces
00:05:38
Speaker 2: as in an aircraft.
00:05:41
Speaker 2: These are the two ones which I can not right now,
00:05:44
Speaker 1: right? Uh So, I mean, obviously there are also perks
00:05:47
Speaker 1: and you know, there are also disappointments, right? Uh So
00:05:50
Speaker 1: in your long career, if you were to uh you know,
00:05:53
Speaker 1: pick out an upsetting or disappointing moment, then what would
00:05:55
Speaker 1: it be?
00:05:56
Speaker 2: So the first thing I would like to say is
00:05:59
Speaker 2: that as a scientist, you know,
00:06:02
Speaker 2: uh even something which uh is is upsetting or disappointing
00:06:08
Speaker 2: that those emotions are uh very momentary, we immediately look
00:06:12
Speaker 2: at it as a great challenge.
00:06:14
Speaker 2: So definitely those are the moments where we had the
00:06:17
Speaker 2: failures starting from the first PSLV failure, then we have
00:06:22
Speaker 2: had in GSLV, then we had in Chandra and two.
00:06:26
Speaker 2: So there are moments which are very uh potentially very upsetting.
00:06:31
Speaker 2: But generally as scientists and as engineers, what we focus
00:06:35
Speaker 2: on is uh what
00:06:37
Speaker 2: could have gone wrong, why it has gone wrong? How
00:06:41
Speaker 2: do we rectify it? How do we ensure that it
00:06:43
Speaker 2: never happens again? So we look at it as a
00:06:46
Speaker 2: huge learning experience and we emotionally distance ourselves from these
00:06:51
Speaker 2: feelings while we go ahead and do what needs to
00:06:54
Speaker 2: be
00:06:54
Speaker 1: done. I think that's something a message which we should
00:06:57
Speaker 1: take in life as well. You know, everything should be
00:06:59
Speaker 1: a stepping stone, even mistakes, right? So uh so nice
00:07:03
Speaker 1: of you to take it that way, ma'am
00:07:06
Speaker 1: anyway. Uh So moving on uh another aspect which has
00:07:09
Speaker 1: been highlighted by the Western media and other space agencies
00:07:13
Speaker 1: like the NASA, for instance, is that uh our top
00:07:17
Speaker 1: notch space programs are always executed with a limited budget.
00:07:21
Speaker 1: So uh did you ever feel that, you know, the
00:07:24
Speaker 1: budget constraint is holding back when it comes to innovation
00:07:27
Speaker 1: uh or has it motivated you to become a more innovative?
00:07:33
Speaker 2: See Harita, we are a developing country and when our
00:07:37
Speaker 2: program was starting out, I would say we were just
00:07:41
Speaker 2: becoming a developing country now, we are much better. So
00:07:45
Speaker 2: we have always been conscious that we are using our taxpayers'
00:07:49
Speaker 2: money and the taxpayer has with the maximum benefit out
00:07:52
Speaker 2: of the money which is given to us.
00:07:54
Speaker 2: So the money which is given to us is within
00:07:57
Speaker 2: the constraints in the country. So it has always, uh
00:08:02
Speaker 2: I would say it has pushed us to become more
00:08:05
Speaker 2: and more innovative and the frugal engineering, all those terms
00:08:08
Speaker 2: you hear, we have learned to make optimal use of
00:08:12
Speaker 2: whatever resources we have,
00:08:16
Speaker 1: right? So uh you were, you just mentioned that you
00:08:18
Speaker 1: were an integral part of PSLV. And this is one
00:08:21
Speaker 1: of the, you know, most uh wonderful moments which you
00:08:24
Speaker 1: had in your career. So uh could you share your
00:08:27
Speaker 1: experience working with the same? And you know, from the, the,
00:08:30
Speaker 1: the first uh the problematic launch uh to the successful
00:08:35
Speaker 1: missions which came and uh could you probably, you know,
00:08:38
Speaker 1: share your experience uh about the PSLV experience?
00:08:43
Speaker 2: Certainly when I joined in 1988 the PSLV, the overall
00:08:50
Speaker 2: structure of the vehicle was finalized. So it would have
00:08:53
Speaker 2: solid stages, it would have two liquid stages and it
00:08:57
Speaker 2: would have strap strap ons all that was finalized. Uh
00:09:00
Speaker 2: But I had specialized in control design and uh we
00:09:04
Speaker 2: had a small team working on the control design of
00:09:07
Speaker 2: the
00:09:08
Speaker 2: uh that's the autopilot design, it's called of the PSLD.
00:09:11
Speaker 2: And the PSLD vehicle is very different from the earlier
00:09:14
Speaker 2: one which came, which was the A SL which is
00:09:16
Speaker 2: an all, all solid rocket. So there were challenges in
00:09:19
Speaker 2: understanding the system in modeling it and then evolving what
00:09:24
Speaker 2: works for uh this system.
00:09:27
Speaker 2: And we had also one of the disappointments that you
00:09:30
Speaker 2: are mentioning, which actually was a great learning experience in
00:09:33
Speaker 2: the first launch of the PSLB, which happened in nine
00:09:37
Speaker 2: 93. So there was a failure and uh that was
00:09:41
Speaker 2: traced to the onboard software and that software happened to
00:09:44
Speaker 2: be the software responding to the control system. And uh
00:09:48
Speaker 2: we learned such a lot from that, the importance of
00:09:52
Speaker 2: software testing by itself. And it was not just the failure,
00:09:56
Speaker 2: it didn't happen, right in the beginning, it was after
00:09:58
Speaker 2: the second stage. And we saw there were other anomalies
00:10:02
Speaker 2: in the other, even in the second stage would not
00:10:05
Speaker 2: have caused mission failure, but definitely the modeling uh uh
00:10:09
Speaker 2: knowledge which we had that also got really augmented by this.
00:10:13
Speaker 2: We built up an entire system to make sure that
00:10:16
Speaker 2: there would not be any such failures for the PSLD.
00:10:20
Speaker 2: And the very next year, we came back with 100%
00:10:22
Speaker 2: successful launch.
00:10:24
Speaker 2: And uh since then PSLB has not looked back, it's
00:10:27
Speaker 2: called the work of this kind of versatile. And then
00:10:32
Speaker 2: it was really a stepping stone to the the higher
00:10:35
Speaker 2: lift capability launch vehicle and it continues to be there
00:10:39
Speaker 2: very much in our uh arena of launch vehicle,
00:10:43
Speaker 1: right. So now let's talk about Gian, uh how far
00:10:46
Speaker 1: ahead is the project now and you've been an integral
00:10:49
Speaker 1: part of it since the beginning? Right?
00:10:51
Speaker 1: So, uh when can we expect to see its completion?
00:10:53
Speaker 1: Could you elaborate a bit on the project?
00:10:57
Speaker 2: Uh I will, I will just tell you see that
00:11:00
Speaker 2: uh this is a program, it's a national program. It's a,
00:11:04
Speaker 2: it's not just this Rules program, it's a national program.
00:11:07
Speaker 2: It's being undertaken by our country for the first time.
00:11:10
Speaker 2: We have had no experience of uh
00:11:12
Speaker 2: I taking a human being to space and then uh
00:11:15
Speaker 2: maintaining him or her there safely and bringing them back
00:11:19
Speaker 2: to earth. We didn't, we don't have any experience. So
00:11:23
Speaker 2: we need, we need to that knowledge. It's a gap
00:11:26
Speaker 2: in our knowledge. So that's what we are trying to
00:11:28
Speaker 2: achieve with Gina. But uh since humans are involved, uh
00:11:33
Speaker 2: there are so many new things which we need to learn,
00:11:36
Speaker 2: we need to have human centric products. We need to
00:11:38
Speaker 2: make sure that safety.
00:11:40
Speaker 2: Anyway, we have the mission reliability, but this is a
00:11:43
Speaker 2: safety critical mission. It's not the objective of attaining a
00:11:48
Speaker 2: particular orbit. It is to make sure that humans are
00:11:51
Speaker 2: always safe.
00:11:52
Speaker 2: So there are robot capabilities which are built in. So
00:11:55
Speaker 2: all these need to be tested. And I'm sure that
00:11:58
Speaker 2: you would have yourself seen in the newspapers that there are,
00:12:01
Speaker 2: there have been a series of tests, the parachutes have
00:12:04
Speaker 2: been tested to a certain extent. Then the abort system,
00:12:07
Speaker 2: one test was there all this you would have seen
00:12:10
Speaker 2: we had a test for TV D one and there
00:12:13
Speaker 2: are a series of such tests in which will give
00:12:16
Speaker 2: us the
00:12:16
Speaker 2: confidence to go ahead. And even once we have that confidence,
00:12:21
Speaker 2: what we would do would not be to send the
00:12:23
Speaker 2: human being straight away, we will be sending Andrew B
00:12:26
Speaker 2: which will be fully instrumented and which, which will also
00:12:29
Speaker 2: carry the scientific payouts. Keeping in mind not to waste
00:12:33
Speaker 2: a single rupee of the taxpayers' money. Even those launches
00:12:37
Speaker 2: have to have further objectives, not just to give confidence.
00:12:41
Speaker 2: Ok. So, so that will, that will happen and that
00:12:45
Speaker 2: is slated for this coming year. And uh if once
00:12:49
Speaker 2: that is 100% OK, you know, then you get the
00:12:51
Speaker 2: conference and then uh you will go ahead with the
00:12:54
Speaker 2: human
00:12:54
Speaker 1: lunch. So uh in 2024 we are expecting uh the
00:12:58
Speaker 1: final test to happen and maybe uh the next next year,
00:13:02
Speaker 1: we could uh see the human
00:13:04
Speaker 1: uh element coming in.
00:13:06
Speaker 2: Yes, I know right now I have a superannuated from
00:13:10
Speaker 2: Israel but uh just we, we, I think this has
00:13:13
Speaker 2: come even in the newspapers that we are planning to
00:13:16
Speaker 2: have the first hand road mission in the first half
00:13:19
Speaker 2: of uh next year. And depending on its success, depending
00:13:23
Speaker 2: on its success, the others will follow. Ok.
00:13:28
Speaker 1: Yes. OK. Uh So uh to wind up, I have
00:13:31
Speaker 1: two questions. One is uh the scientist who has inspired
00:13:35
Speaker 1: you the most uh in all these years because, uh
00:13:39
Speaker 1: uh you know, it's, it's difficult because you've been a
00:13:41
Speaker 1: part of the entire process and, you know, you might
00:13:43
Speaker 1: have come across a, a great many scientists in different fields.
00:13:48
Speaker 1: So if you were to choose one person who has
00:13:50
Speaker 1: inspired you uh in India or elsewhere, uh who would
00:13:54
Speaker 1: it be?
00:13:56
Speaker 2: Actually, it's not a difficult question for me is a
00:13:58
Speaker 2: very clear answer. It is Marie Curie.
00:14:01
Speaker 1: Oh really? OK.
00:14:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. She was in the 19th century and she lived
00:14:08
Speaker 2: in a, in a time where women were not having
00:14:11
Speaker 2: the kind of respect they have. Now, in spite of that,
00:14:15
Speaker 2: she won not one Nobel Prize but two,
00:14:18
Speaker 2: she became the first woman to win a Nobel Prize.
00:14:21
Speaker 2: She became the first person to have two Nobel Prizes
00:14:25
Speaker 2: and the only person to win two Nobel Prizes in
00:14:29
Speaker 2: two different disciplines, different scientific disciplines that is physics and
00:14:34
Speaker 2: of course, afterwards,
00:14:35
Speaker 2: one more, one more. But he won, he won in
00:14:39
Speaker 2: uh one in scientific and the other was a peace prize.
00:14:42
Speaker 2: So Mari record even now it remains so it's hugely
00:14:48
Speaker 2: inspiring for any woman scientist I would say.
00:14:52
Speaker 2: So I just, she's the
00:14:54
Speaker 1: one for me. All right. So now you mentioned about,
00:14:58
Speaker 1: you know how tough it was for women in the
00:15:00
Speaker 1: past and it's still a little tough, maybe not as
00:15:03
Speaker 1: much as in the 19th century, but there are limitations
00:15:06
Speaker 1: for women to pursue their dreams, right? So if you
00:15:09
Speaker 1: are to give a message to the many aspiring uh
00:15:12
Speaker 1: space scientists out there, uh especially women, what would it be?
00:15:17
Speaker 2: Uh what I would say is, see, i it's uh
00:15:20
Speaker 2: applicable for women as well as for men that we
00:15:24
Speaker 2: have to identify. What really um what shall I say?
00:15:28
Speaker 2: What is your passion?
00:15:30
Speaker 2: Just follow your passion and then you are sure to
00:15:34
Speaker 2: gain great heights and but you have to keep yourself
00:15:37
Speaker 2: abreast of the happenings because things keep changing so fast.
00:15:40
Speaker 2: There are disruptive technologies which are coming and uh it's,
00:15:44
Speaker 2: it's actually not true only of space. It is true
00:15:47
Speaker 2: of every domain of life. I'm sure you agree. Give
00:15:51
Speaker 2: yourself a pu your passion.
00:15:54
Speaker 1: So
00:15:54
Speaker 2: that's it. But, but for women,
00:15:57
Speaker 2: the there are still challenges. Uh We cannot, uh we
00:16:01
Speaker 2: cannot say that everything is uh perfectly fine. As far
00:16:04
Speaker 2: as women are concerned, they have to believe in themselves.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: I feel they have to push beyond the comfort zone,
00:16:11
Speaker 2: not be afraid of anything,
00:16:13
Speaker 2: just go ahead and uh definitely fortune will
00:16:17
Speaker 1: favor you.
00:16:18
Speaker 1: All right. So that's the word follow your passion and
00:16:22
Speaker 1: you will achieve your dreams. So, thank you so much
00:16:25
Speaker 1: for joining us today, Dr Lizama. It was an honor
00:16:28
Speaker 1: to have you on Newsbreak podcast. This is on Manorama
00:16:31
Speaker 1: Newsbreak and Explain a podcast produced by Harita Benjamin, which
00:16:35
Speaker 1: is me with technical production by idea Brew Studios, it
00:16:38
Speaker 1: comes out every week and is available on all podcast platforms.
00:16:42
Speaker 1: Do follow on manora.com for more updates.