Schumacher-Vettel, Audi-Porsche & other German F1 stories with Christian Danner (Voices of F1)

[00:00:02] Before we begin, I wanted to give a huge shout out to the folks at Amazon Music for partnering with us on this episode of the Inside Line F1 Podcast.

[00:00:10] But more on this later, right then, let's get right into today's episode.

[00:00:27] Welcome, ladies and gentlemen to the Inside Line F1 Podcast, where normally when we have guests on the show,

[00:00:42] we normally tend to bring in lots of paddock journalists, lots of team bosses, lots of people who have commented on this board.

[00:00:48] But today we have some proper racing royalty, someone who's not just racing Formula One, but also Le Mans, DTM and so many other championships

[00:00:57] and has also been a lead voice of Formula One in Germany for over two decades now.

[00:01:03] Ladies and gentlemen, I am so glad that we have Christian Dana on the show today on the Inside Line F1 Podcast.

[00:01:09] And Christian, firstly, can I just say how glad I am to speak to you?

[00:01:13] Because when Kunal told me that you would be coming on, I just again, for a reference, looked at your record and the teams you've raced with,

[00:01:20] the tracks you've raced at, the cars you've driven and the people you've raced against and then what you've achieved as well.

[00:01:26] I mean, for a motorsport fan, will your record blow anyone's mind?

[00:01:31] Well, don't exaggerate. I had a fairly good career to be perfectly honest

[00:01:38] and I was lucky enough to actually do all these different things.

[00:01:42] You know, there is not many people who have raced in Formula One and Formula Two, 3,000 in Formula Nippon in Japan.

[00:01:50] I was racing Indy cars in the States. I was doing Le Mans, all the long distance stuff with the sports cars.

[00:01:56] And it also had some touring car things and smaller touring cars and bigger touring cars.

[00:02:01] At the end of the day, I had a good career. I spent a fair bit of my life in the top end of the global motorsports business

[00:02:11] and that's fine, you know, and when I look back, I'm still healthy. I'm still fit. So I still love it.

[00:02:17] Wait, but the first question that comes into my mind looking at all of this is how would you transition?

[00:02:22] And that's a very nerdy question from my end to us because Indy cars are so light, rare heavy, touring cars are so heavy,

[00:02:30] but front ended in that regard. Formula One cars must have been a totally different experience for you.

[00:02:34] You've experienced the whole lot.

[00:02:36] Well, you see every racing car has to tell you a different story to be perfectly honest.

[00:02:43] I, you know, in general there is two, the world is divided into parts once you talk circuit racing.

[00:02:53] There is single-seater racing cars, there's Formula cars and tin tops or sports cars with a roof on it.

[00:03:00] So these two you have to separate because the only true racing car is a single-seater racing car.

[00:03:07] That is the only thoroughbred car that I would call a racing car.

[00:03:13] All the others are cars that you can race and they are fantastic cars and they're super machines

[00:03:19] and everything. You know, sometimes or some of them are actually extremely fast.

[00:03:24] However, the feeling in a single-seater is something that only a single-seater gives you.

[00:03:31] I mean from a driver's perspective, from a driver's point of view, single-seater racing cars are the only thorough real racing cars.

[00:03:41] How to adapt is kind of tricky because nowadays, Formula One drivers tend to stay in Formula One and that's it.

[00:03:50] And then they eventually fall out of Formula One and do a bit of this, that and the other and then they retire.

[00:03:56] In my days it was quite different because I had to race everything because I didn't earn any money otherwise.

[00:04:05] So there was touring cars with the BMW M3s and there was next weekend in 1985, I was doing everything you can imagine.

[00:04:15] I did Formula One to step in for Jonathan Palmer in these days, did my first Grand Prix.

[00:04:21] I won the Formula 3000 championship, I did Formula 3000 races in the Caribbean.

[00:04:28] I was actually doing the entire world championship for the Group C then which was sports cars.

[00:04:34] Nowadays it would be LM DH or LM prototypes, whatever.

[00:04:40] And I even did my first Formula 3 race after I did my first Formula on Grand Prix in Macau.

[00:04:47] So I had to do all that because I had no choice and because I have been doing it all the way through my career

[00:04:55] I knew exactly what I had to expect.

[00:04:57] Okay, so the attitude of a racing car, single-seater racing car is obviously very different compared to a touring car

[00:05:04] but to adapt is difficult but it's got a lot to do with experience.

[00:05:09] You know what you're expecting, touring cars are a lot slower, a lot less downforce, a lot less responsive.

[00:05:18] There you are.

[00:05:19] Once you know what you're doing, you can cope with it and you can adapt.

[00:05:23] It's not all that difficult.

[00:05:26] You need to know what you want to do and then you can do it.

[00:05:31] Wait, wait, you mentioned such an interesting nugget there.

[00:05:34] Racing in Formula 3000 after Formula One, why did that happen eventually?

[00:05:39] I mean, you must have gotten in in 1985 right and then eventually going back to Formula 3000

[00:05:45] was it a conscious choice that you had to make or is it something that was just thrust upon you?

[00:05:50] Well, you know coming back to that rather strange thing that I actually did.

[00:06:00] We're not talking about 3000, we're talking about Formula 3.

[00:06:03] I never did Formula 3 in my career because when I started racing I was quite old.

[00:06:10] I did the A-Levels to go to university and then I started racing with BMW

[00:06:15] and the BMW Racing Director, Adidas Stapart, he said to me,

[00:06:19] listen you should be doing Formula 3 because you've got no experience

[00:06:24] but we can't offer you a Formula 3 drive because we haven't got an engine for it.

[00:06:28] What we can offer you is go racing in Formula 2 with the March BMW Works team in England

[00:06:34] and then you can offer the European Championship and being who I am,

[00:06:39] there's no problem, let's go ahead with Formula 2.

[00:06:43] So that's why I ended up in Formula 2.

[00:06:45] I spent a fair bit of time in the championship but the problem was the Honda engine

[00:06:51] eventually because it was much better than the BMW.

[00:06:54] So then 3000 was good because I won the championship and during the year 1985

[00:07:00] I won the first Formula 1 Grand Prix, I think it was in Spa and then in Brands Hatch

[00:07:04] and after that come November I was invited to do a Formula 3 race in Macau

[00:07:10] and that was my first Formula 3 race after having done my first Formula 1 Grand Prix

[00:07:16] which I think is absolutely unique.

[00:07:19] It is indeed and before we go into the more contemporary stuff

[00:07:26] we're going to talk about that first Formula 1 experience because it came in so early into your career, right?

[00:07:31] I suppose only four years into your proper racing career you were thrust into Formula 1

[00:07:36] and into a team that wasn't really at the very top of their game

[00:07:40] to be very respectful, Zach Speed Racing at that time.

[00:07:43] But then was it very daunting for you because now when we hear experts like David Coulthard

[00:07:48] talk about getting into Formula 1, he says that a lot of drivers in the past used to feel

[00:07:53] there was a big jump that probably isn't there today.

[00:07:57] You feel the same, was it somewhat of a dramatic experience when you got in?

[00:08:02] Well it wasn't really a dramatic experience because after all it's a racing car

[00:08:07] and I was used to racing cars quite well by then.

[00:08:10] The problem was and that compared to nowadays

[00:08:15] the big problem was that you couldn't really test the car, there was no money, no budget, no nothing

[00:08:21] and you just had to jump in and get on with it.

[00:08:25] And that was difficult because the car had a one and a half litre turbo engine which was very powerful

[00:08:30] the car wasn't a very good car at all, it's never seen a wind tunnel, it's never...

[00:08:35] It was not anywhere near as good as the 3000 car I drove or the 3000 cars I developed over the winter

[00:08:42] for March and Lola, there were much better cars than the Grand Prix car I drove in my first Grand Prix.

[00:08:48] However I still had to get on with it and that's something that is nowadays quite a lot easier

[00:08:55] because the level of the technology level of our current Formula 1 car is so high

[00:09:03] that even the slowest car is actually quite nice to drive

[00:09:08] and the operation of the car, you know like turning the steering wheel

[00:09:14] putting the foot on the brakes and shifting and everything is dead easy nowadays

[00:09:19] and that was difficult then because it was a real beast to keep it all together

[00:09:25] and it was difficult but manageable for the good ones.

[00:09:29] Wait Christian so in terms of the workouts did you also go to the gym for three hours

[00:09:34] and do intense neck training like the modern Formula 1 drivers or was it more shoulder heavy

[00:09:38] because I can imagine no power steering using the clutch getting the shifts done, that's a workout on its own.

[00:09:44] Yeah but you know people regard the fitness of a Formula 1 driver as obviously very important

[00:09:53] and they judge it by how many hours in the gym has the guy spent

[00:09:57] and that is totally utterly wrong because what you need to drive a racing car

[00:10:02] is a long distance fitness so you need to go running, trail running, racing bike, cross country skiing

[00:10:12] and on top of that you need some particular muscle zones and you have to practice and train them

[00:10:19] and that of course I did but I was quite fit and I was for the time then

[00:10:26] I didn't have any problems apart from my sheer size which was in these cars a problem

[00:10:32] because there were no rules which defined the internal size of a racing car

[00:10:39] and that's why even kind of smaller people like Alan Prost and Piero Martini in these guys

[00:10:46] they sat in the car with the shoulders sticking out in the breeze

[00:10:50] and that was obviously not very funny for the neck and for longer people like me

[00:10:55] it was rather uncomfortable and that's why I'm laughing when nowadays drivers complain about

[00:11:02] oh it's so hard and Jesus Christ you know it's not.

[00:11:08] You know I actually have the best seat in the house when someone is interviewing you

[00:11:12] I get to hear all the stories and ask my questions in real time

[00:11:16] and going back to your part about drivers complaining

[00:11:20] and you know I'm gonna bring out a fact when you raced your last season in 1989

[00:11:26] there were 30 cars on the grid right now we have troubles giving entry to the 21st and 22nd car on the grid

[00:11:35] how was it back then to be 30 really quick cars on the grid

[00:11:42] so you had a pre-qualifying and then a qualifying etc so there was a way to deal with it

[00:11:47] but 30 cars on the grid just how crazy would it get?

[00:11:51] Yeah well 30 was probably a bit too much

[00:11:56] but the 26 cars was the standard and for Monaco it was 24 only

[00:12:01] that was pretty much average year after year

[00:12:05] I have to tell you two things

[00:12:08] Formula 1 I think 24 or 26 cars for Formula 1 is a much better field compared to the 20 we've got now

[00:12:17] but not so much as far as the spectacles concern the actual racing and so forth

[00:12:22] but it is more room for drivers in Formula 1

[00:12:27] when I was racing in Formula 1 it was always very difficult and the teams were about to go barely up on money issues and stuff

[00:12:34] that's not the case anymore because they're actually getting an awful lot of money from FOM

[00:12:39] and they can actually survive almost without any sponsorship and stuff

[00:12:45] however it'd be good for motor racing if we had more cars in Formula 1

[00:12:51] because we then have more Formula 1 drivers

[00:12:54] and every year there is a few guys that get stuck on their way up

[00:13:00] and can't actually make it to Formula 1 and that was better in the late 1980s

[00:13:06] however the quality of cars you can't compare it with what we've got now

[00:13:11] there is much much much better cars

[00:13:14] the slowest car in the current field is about one and a half or two seconds slower than the fastest

[00:13:22] and the difference when I was racing was probably five six seconds something like that

[00:13:27] so there was a much bigger difference

[00:13:29] interesting and can I also maybe quiz you a little bit about driver contracts back then

[00:13:34] because we're in the midst of a driver silly season everyone's trying to you know more than 12 drivers are looking for spaces

[00:13:40] how are contracts structured back then because when I was at Fosindia it was fairly simple

[00:13:45] you know you have a baseline fee and then every point you scored you got something

[00:13:49] but you had an extra filter of do you even end up qualifying for a race before you actually

[00:13:55] because you could show up with all full fanfare and you know have all tickets booked

[00:13:59] and then you would see drivers not everyone qualifying so how was

[00:14:03] was there a layered structure back then as well when you were racing with driver contracts

[00:14:08] yeah it was very simple it was all I had to rely on my on myself it was responsibility

[00:14:14] 100% responsibility with the driver I got fuckhole from the team

[00:14:19] no points no bonus no nothing I had a little bit of space on the overall which I could sell

[00:14:25] and that was it you know I could then say okay there is a contract for some I don't know supplier

[00:14:32] or something and and I got a little bit of money but at the end of the day

[00:14:38] no there was a contract but there was nothing in it for me nothing

[00:14:43] and that was not the only one with a kind of a contract like that

[00:14:47] yes along with technology when driver contracts have now become far more sophisticated in Formula One

[00:14:53] now you know don't misunderstand me it's not you know I don't want to take anything away from the current drivers

[00:15:01] however there is so much more money in the business nowadays compared to them

[00:15:07] and the team my team then say in 89 was a small team

[00:15:12] they had no room for drivers budget what they could do they gave a little bit of space on the overall

[00:15:17] and say okay sell it and do whatever you want with it if you sell it well you earn good money

[00:15:22] if you don't sell it well you earn not so good money and it was perfectly alright then

[00:15:28] because the fundamental difference in how you approach the whole issue

[00:15:37] was responsibility for yourself you got to be responsible for yourself now

[00:15:43] if you're listening to current drivers everything is responsible

[00:15:47] the track is not good the curves are too high the FAA is stupid

[00:15:53] the teams haven't done this that any other and the world is always

[00:15:58] it's always the world's fault never the driver in my world of motor racing

[00:16:04] there was no such thing I had to be responsible for myself if I hit the curb

[00:16:10] my problem and the car was broken if I hit the wall I can't complain about a bump

[00:16:16] or bad surface or you know when I ran out of puff during a race

[00:16:22] it was my responsibility to train harder not like you know the Qatar race last year

[00:16:29] where everybody complained I was too hot well surprise surprise it's hot in Qatar

[00:16:34] you know and that is that is the biggest difference from then to now

[00:16:39] it is a lot easier it is still very difficult to go fast in a current from

[00:16:45] on car absolutely but there is a few other things which are a lot easier

[00:16:52] but on that I really want to be touching upon what the scenario today is Christian

[00:16:58] because in that time there was such a different era nowadays things are all corporate factory backed

[00:17:04] there's a literal corporate machine behind it all and we've normally seen that Germany

[00:17:09] is different be it in football be it in racing as well

[00:17:13] it's a country that embraces sports quite differently to any other country in the world

[00:17:17] and that's evident in the culture and the way the fans follow which is so beautiful to see

[00:17:21] but isn't it weird that we don't really have a crown tree and we only have one driver

[00:17:26] when a decade ago we had Nico Rosberg Sebastian Fettel Michael Schumacher as well at that point

[00:17:32] and there were drivers like Mick Schumacher up in the ranks like where has it all gone wrong

[00:17:38] Well there's two things I can tell you on that point

[00:17:42] number one it's a natural thing it goes up and down look at the Brazilians look at the Italians

[00:17:48] we had seven or eight Italians in the field now we have not a single one

[00:17:53] same with the Brazilians you know we had the Piquets, the Senna's, the Barrichello's and all that

[00:17:58] and now what we've got and that's a natural thing it actually happens country to country

[00:18:06] what was amazing though was however when I you know Michael actually followed me into Formula One

[00:18:15] in 1990 I was still developing Honda engines and Bridgestone tyres for Formula One in Japan

[00:18:23] and he was only 91 when I basically went to the States and raced in Indy cars

[00:18:31] and kind of gave up on Formula One so Michael was the next but Michael was number one

[00:18:38] an extreme talent and he was he lucked in at the right moment because like every great driver

[00:18:47] in the history of Formula One you need the right time for your skills

[00:18:52] and Michael was a very hard very extremely talented and very hard driver

[00:18:58] and that suited these cars very well and on top of that he had the right people looking after him

[00:19:03] like Flavio and Benetton and then Sean told it Ferrari and so forth

[00:19:08] he made the best of it now coming back to Germany

[00:19:13] Germany never had a driver like Michael who was winning

[00:19:19] I was never winning in Formula One I mean I was reasonably popular as a driver

[00:19:24] but not anywhere near Michael's status Michael was the first one who introduced

[00:19:31] Formula One to the country of Germany and luckily I was part of it because I did all commentary for it

[00:19:39] so at least although I thought you know good I wish it was me but you have to be open

[00:19:48] Michael was a much faster driver than I ever was

[00:19:52] and then you look at it and you feel kind of privileged that you are allowed to actually follow such a fantastic driver

[00:20:00] all the way through his career and you're right there

[00:20:05] I saw him race every race and the good thing was that he actually conquered people in Germany

[00:20:14] from you know conquered the hearts of people in Germany who weren't motor racing enthusiasts whatsoever

[00:20:22] I mean they were just normal people they said oh Michael he just drives faster than the others

[00:20:27] you know that's fantastic and he was a reliable bloke he kept winning

[00:20:32] and you know this opened motor racing for a crowd that wasn't even anywhere near being a racing nerd by any means

[00:20:45] and the problem with it was however that how shall I say I kind of grew up in England

[00:20:53] you know with my racing career and British motor racing is something very traditional

[00:20:58] very fair very hard and very and full of spirit there is a lot of motor racing spirit in England

[00:21:09] which I absorbed when I was living there and I loved it and I still do love it

[00:21:15] in Germany they had no clue that you thought he drives fast and that's it

[00:21:20] and that led to how shall I say to to an understanding which basically defined motor racing is Michael

[00:21:31] which is not true there's a lot of other guys out there who are also very good

[00:21:35] and there's a lot of other championships and this was good for Formula One in Germany

[00:21:43] and everybody was mad keen on Michael and he was such a hero

[00:21:47] however did they understand the true meaning of it all? No

[00:21:52] because they just... everything was Michael

[00:21:58] for one was okay it's from one but Michael was he did an extreme favour for Formula One in the country

[00:22:06] and years later you know come Vettel and all the others

[00:22:11] the reason was that Mike had prepared this kind of playground

[00:22:17] and that's why we all have to be very very thankful and grateful to him

[00:22:22] that he actually achieved what he did achieve in this country

[00:22:26] now it's just gone down a little bit and it'll come up again

[00:22:30] you know I'm not worried

[00:22:32] A bit of a nerdy question here

[00:22:34] I find it fascinating that a lot of the German people associated motor racing with Michael

[00:22:39] because at that time as well the DTM was on

[00:22:42] the Nurburgring 24 hours were on and in their glory

[00:22:45] lots of German teams were doing great in sports car racing

[00:22:48] and Germany being on our automotive hub at that point

[00:22:51] I would have imagined that a lot more people enjoyed racing

[00:22:54] like they do right now as well in the country

[00:22:56] was it really not that case that then motor racing have a very niche audience

[00:23:01] and then Michael was more of a cultural phenomenon than an athlete

[00:23:05] yeah that's what it was, that's what it was

[00:23:07] it's a niche thing, niche audience

[00:23:09] it used to be a niche audience

[00:23:11] and it's actually moving back to becoming again a niche audience

[00:23:14] because it's only on pay TV at the moment

[00:23:17] apart from some races like 7-8 which we are doing on free TV

[00:23:21] and that reduced the number of TV viewers dramatically

[00:23:26] where in Michael's days we had an RTL

[00:23:28] something around 12 or sometimes even 15 million people watching

[00:23:32] now the sky figures are down to something like 450,000, 500,000

[00:23:39] and there's no real impact with the average people in the society

[00:23:46] and that's also probably normal because

[00:23:50] you mentioned DTM or sports car racing it's non-existing

[00:23:55] I mean DTM I think they have 100,000 spectators

[00:23:59] for their first race and WEC I don't know

[00:24:03] probably 50 or 60,000 there's nothing

[00:24:06] I mean living in India those sort of numbers seem like a dream

[00:24:09] but I get where you're coming from in terms of the perspective of it

[00:24:13] but I really want to understand just how big was it

[00:24:16] because when you see the Netflix documentary on Michael

[00:24:19] you get an understanding of how big he was to the motor racing world

[00:24:23] but in Germany just did you see him on the front pages every single day

[00:24:27] were there commercials constantly featuring him

[00:24:30] was he the talk of the pub all the time?

[00:24:32] How big was he back in the day?

[00:24:34] He was very, very, very big everybody knew him

[00:24:38] so you could ask anyone, anyone, anyone out there

[00:24:42] whether it was in the bakery or you went to the butcher

[00:24:45] you went to the restaurant and anybody knew absolutely everybody knew Michael

[00:24:50] so he was more popular than any other sports star ever

[00:24:55] because he was so successful and he was so

[00:24:59] because of the television we did at RTL

[00:25:03] it was free TV we actually delivered whatever they wanted to see

[00:25:07] every fortnight or every weekend whenever there was a race

[00:25:12] we delivered it into the living room

[00:25:14] and that was even now I get really sweet males from people

[00:25:20] who say, Mr. Dana it's so great to have you back

[00:25:24] on the TV screen because I grew up with you

[00:25:28] I was a five year old boy when my grandmother and my grandfather

[00:25:32] were watching Formula One and that was with you

[00:25:35] and it's so good to have you back and so forth

[00:25:37] sweet, I mean it's absolutely touching

[00:25:40] but it shows you it is more than just an impact of a racing driver

[00:25:45] it was an impact of a phenomenon

[00:25:49] you know first time ever Formula One driver wins races

[00:25:53] everybody in the country believes he can walk on water

[00:25:57] he could but they believed it

[00:26:01] and on that I really get so curious to know about the impact

[00:26:08] that Sebastian Vettel had on that because he carried on the legacy

[00:26:12] in such a spectacular fashion for consecutive titles

[00:26:15] and he was very much a man of his own

[00:26:17] very different in terms of his view on the world

[00:26:20] his openness to talk about things outside of racing

[00:26:23] his non-user social media which is quite something as well

[00:26:27] in the modern day and age but he did really inspire a generation

[00:26:31] in the same way that as Michael already had the same impact

[00:26:34] on the youth in that regard

[00:26:36] No, Michael was a very different person

[00:26:39] I mean first of all you mentioned social media

[00:26:41] I mean there wasn't going the internet was hardly invented

[00:26:44] and so there was obviously no social media

[00:26:46] so even if he wanted to he couldn't have done it

[00:26:49] Sebastian didn't like the social media at all

[00:26:56] he's changed his mind a little bit but he's very careful

[00:27:00] how he's using it

[00:27:02] so coming back to the, how shall I say

[00:27:06] it's, Sebastian was very very very very different to Michael

[00:27:12] because Michael came from, how shall I say

[00:27:16] I don't want to be rude by any means

[00:27:19] because I admired Michael all the time because of his driving

[00:27:22] but his level of education was fairly basic

[00:27:26] he had no real idea like

[00:27:32] I mean Sebastian Wettel did his qualifications for the university

[00:27:37] and he was a totally intellectually totally

[00:27:42] differently prepared for the world compared to Michael

[00:27:46] Michael had to learn the hard way and he did learn fantastically

[00:27:51] but it was a very different approach

[00:27:54] his friends are different, his lifestyle is different

[00:27:57] his pretty much everything was very different

[00:28:01] and that's why he didn't really hit the people's heart

[00:28:08] in the same way that Michael did

[00:28:10] Michael was a very down to earth, very average kind of a person

[00:28:15] that everybody could see, it's almost me

[00:28:17] it's you know, Sebastian was a little bit more intellectual

[00:28:22] and therefore he didn't have the same reach

[00:28:25] if you know what I mean

[00:28:26] and please I enjoyed very much meeting both of them

[00:28:34] because they were different characters

[00:28:36] and the good thing is that you know whoever you are

[00:28:39] wherever you come from you got a chance

[00:28:42] and Michael took his chance

[00:28:44] and Sebastian took his chance

[00:28:46] they were different

[00:28:47] and the fact that they were so different

[00:28:51] is also one of the reasons why Michael was more popular

[00:28:55] Michael was the first to achieve all that

[00:28:57] and Michael was from a different group of the society

[00:29:01] which basically made him everybody's darling

[00:29:06] Sebastian was slightly different

[00:29:08] everybody liked him, he was a very positive man

[00:29:11] but he was very different you know

[00:29:14] But was the sport as big as that point

[00:29:16] because in Sebastian's glory days we had him

[00:29:19] Nico Rosberg was also almost there at winning races

[00:29:24] Nico Hulkenberg was on the grid

[00:29:26] Adrian Sutil was on and off at that point

[00:29:28] the German Grand Prix was alternating between Hockenheim

[00:29:31] and then the Nürburgring

[00:29:32] it's almost perfect

[00:29:34] was the sport bigger than it has ever been at that point?

[00:29:36] No, the sport was biggest bit Michael

[00:29:39] we had two races one in Hockenheim

[00:29:42] one at the Nürburgring

[00:29:44] both were sold out

[00:29:45] I mean it was just incredible with Michael

[00:29:48] with Sebastian it was still big but it was a lot less

[00:29:52] and the reason we had so many drivers was the fact

[00:29:55] that there was quite a lot of money coming from Germany

[00:29:58] into Formula One

[00:30:00] and that brought more German talent into Formula One

[00:30:04] and you mentioned Adrian Sutil or Nick Heidfeld

[00:30:09] or Heinz-Harald Frenzen

[00:30:11] and there was plenty of them

[00:30:13] and Michael was the door opener for them

[00:30:17] and they actually made it

[00:30:19] and I mean Sebastian was inspired by Michael

[00:30:21] when he was a small boy

[00:30:23] and that's why Michael did such incredible good

[00:30:30] for Formula One in this country

[00:30:33] he opened a lot of doors for a lot of young drivers

[00:30:38] and it's a little harder now again

[00:30:41] but still that's what he did

[00:30:43] and that's what happened

[00:30:46] and following Michael was plenty of German drivers

[00:30:50] let's hope that Michael is able to come back to normal life

[00:30:56] as we would call it of course

[00:30:58] the unfortunate accident

[00:31:00] and the inspiration that you said

[00:31:02] that he was for Wettel

[00:31:04] as much as he was for millions of other fans

[00:31:07] and budding drivers

[00:31:08] I remember I took to Formula One

[00:31:10] and wanting to raise cars

[00:31:13] of Michael Schumacher himself

[00:31:16] but if I could stay on Wett Sebastian Fettel

[00:31:20] such a statesman, such an enigma

[00:31:25] won so many races

[00:31:27] and I think his exit from Formula One

[00:31:31] with Aston Martin was

[00:31:33] slightly out of frustration

[00:31:35] he'll time, didn't have the right project

[00:31:37] now he's making all the noises again

[00:31:39] I'm willing to come back

[00:31:41] if the project is right

[00:31:43] do you believe that that's actually true and possible

[00:31:47] would you know if there are things actually happening

[00:31:50] in the background

[00:31:51] given again how dynamic the driver market is this year?

[00:31:56] Well to give you a straight answer

[00:31:58] no, I don't think so

[00:32:00] No, I mean

[00:32:02] Sebastian Wettel was

[00:32:05] an incredibly young man

[00:32:07] when he entered Formula One

[00:32:09] and he looked even younger

[00:32:11] and I remember

[00:32:13] I had a glass of wine at the bar

[00:32:17] with Charlie Whiting

[00:32:19] who was the racing director in these days

[00:32:22] and Charlie and I go way back

[00:32:23] and we always had a chat during the weekends

[00:32:26] and you know in his office

[00:32:27] or about the weather

[00:32:29] and starting procedures

[00:32:31] and you know I just turn up at his place

[00:32:33] occasionally during the rest weekend

[00:32:35] we had a chat and it was lovely

[00:32:37] in the evening it was Herbie Blash his assistant then

[00:32:40] and him and Charlie

[00:32:42] and we just sat together having a glass of wine

[00:32:44] at the hotel bar

[00:32:46] and Charlie said, well Christian

[00:32:48] what a wonderful wonderful young man

[00:32:51] this Sebastian

[00:32:53] and I said to Charlie

[00:32:55] you're absolutely dead right

[00:32:57] a wonderful young man

[00:32:59] but even wonderful young men

[00:33:01] become not so young men eventually

[00:33:04] and they grow into

[00:33:06] even probably even more wonderful men

[00:33:09] and Sebastian

[00:33:11] was actually developing

[00:33:13] his character and his ideas

[00:33:15] and his thoughts and everything

[00:33:17] and he just reached a point

[00:33:20] where it didn't make sense any longer

[00:33:23] and that's why he quit

[00:33:26] and it was not like

[00:33:28] the Lauda thing or the Michael quit

[00:33:31] because he had to

[00:33:33] he never wanted to quit

[00:33:35] they basically threw him out

[00:33:37] and he had

[00:33:39] this feeling that there was more in him

[00:33:41] and you know and that's why he did a comeback

[00:33:44] with Sebastian

[00:33:46] with the portion with long distance

[00:33:48] and Lamar and something he loves racing

[00:33:50] so maybe that's realistic

[00:33:52] in Formula 1 I don't think so

[00:33:54] wait that nugget there

[00:33:56] I need to pick it up

[00:33:58] why do you think they threw him out

[00:34:00] because the Ferrari very unceremoniously

[00:34:02] dragged him out there

[00:34:04] but why do you think so

[00:34:06] because the commercial engine was running well

[00:34:08] performances were never an issue

[00:34:10] fitness with Michael Schumacher

[00:34:12] can never ever be an issue

[00:34:14] what just happened there

[00:34:16] look at the Montezemmola

[00:34:18] had a clear idea

[00:34:20] that it was time for Michael to go

[00:34:22] because don't forget

[00:34:24] he was look at the Semmel the president of Ferrari

[00:34:26] at that time

[00:34:28] he was a very dominating character

[00:34:30] and he had

[00:34:32] everything, everything he wanted

[00:34:34] and

[00:34:36] he got not only the

[00:34:38] the most tremendous amount of salary

[00:34:40] he also had

[00:34:42] such a privileged status

[00:34:44] in the team

[00:34:46] that it was time for the president to think about

[00:34:48] the actual structure

[00:34:50] of his team is it good to have a driver

[00:34:52] where nobody else could exist

[00:34:54] next to him

[00:34:56] and all the people who were next to him

[00:34:58] never really made it

[00:35:00] because Michael was much better

[00:35:02] and then the day came

[00:35:04] when you have to rejuvenate your team

[00:35:06] and prepare for the next future

[00:35:08] that was the only reason why they said

[00:35:10] thank you very much, you're wonderful

[00:35:12] but he didn't want

[00:35:14] to stop then for sure not

[00:35:16] well in my opinion anyway

[00:35:18] I mean how I see it

[00:35:20] how I look at this

[00:35:22] and with that

[00:35:24] I eventually did see his legacy

[00:35:26] being carried on with Mick Schumacher

[00:35:28] which was such a touching moment to see him in Formula 1

[00:35:30] and we all knew it was coming right

[00:35:32] looking at his talent in the junior formula

[00:35:34] looking at the way Ferrari airmarked him

[00:35:36] as one for the future

[00:35:38] it felt like it would be eventually

[00:35:40] his seat after Carlos Sainz

[00:35:42] but it all faded away

[00:35:44] and in many people's opinions Christian

[00:35:46] and in myself, in my opinion as well

[00:35:48] I do rate him as quite a decent driver

[00:35:50] from what I see but clearly

[00:35:52] that was not the case at Haas

[00:35:54] was it his talent lacking

[00:35:56] or was it just the wrong environment for him

[00:35:58] to enter Formula 1 that maybe didn't work out

[00:36:00] how do you view it?

[00:36:02] A difficult question

[00:36:04] I try to give you a decent answer

[00:36:08] well first of all

[00:36:10] in this country everybody believed

[00:36:12] he's going to jump into a racing car

[00:36:14] he's going to finish at the points in the first season

[00:36:16] he's going to be a Ferrari driver

[00:36:18] and keeps winning races like his father did

[00:36:20] no, the channel public were convinced

[00:36:22] this is going to happen

[00:36:24] and the tabloids and everything

[00:36:26] and everybody was like that

[00:36:28] I had a very different opinion

[00:36:30] because I knew his career

[00:36:32] I knew how there were

[00:36:34] actually the people around him

[00:36:36] were helping

[00:36:38] and pushing

[00:36:40] and actually making life

[00:36:42] as easy as possible on his way

[00:36:44] into Formula 1

[00:36:46] so he drove very well in Formula 2

[00:36:48] he then got into Formula 1

[00:36:50] very clearly

[00:36:52] wasn't up to it

[00:36:54] he did a lot of testing

[00:36:56] he was prepared and Ferrari

[00:36:58] but he wasn't up to it

[00:37:00] and

[00:37:02] he then didn't realize

[00:37:04] that I have

[00:37:06] to raise my game

[00:37:08] whatever I've done so far is not enough

[00:37:10] and you can't do it from one day to the other

[00:37:12] and that's how come

[00:37:14] that he was crashing

[00:37:16] all the time and he was doing

[00:37:18] he was slow

[00:37:20] actually very slow in the beginning

[00:37:22] and eventually he got better

[00:37:24] but it is never

[00:37:26] easy to drive a slow car

[00:37:28] or in a slow team

[00:37:30] because

[00:37:32] Jesus, I know what I'm talking about

[00:37:34] these cars don't

[00:37:36] give you back

[00:37:38] what you invest in them

[00:37:40] you give it all

[00:37:42] your heart, your blood, your soul

[00:37:44] your grandmother on top of it

[00:37:46] no problem, just to go faster

[00:37:48] but the reward is nothing

[00:37:50] because you're always P

[00:37:52] 15 or 20

[00:37:54] he was most of the time P20 or P19 anyway

[00:37:56] so the reward is nothing

[00:37:58] and that is difficult

[00:38:00] so

[00:38:02] it is actually very difficult

[00:38:04] but

[00:38:06] I think two years

[00:38:08] that Mick had in Formula 1

[00:38:10] was plenty of time

[00:38:12] to show to the rest of the world

[00:38:14] that I'm actually pretty special

[00:38:16] and that is not what he showed to the rest of the world

[00:38:18] because

[00:38:20] the teammate was nothing

[00:38:22] and Kevin Magnussen

[00:38:24] was good

[00:38:26] and he wasn't anywhere near Magnussen

[00:38:28] and you see what Hülkenberg does now

[00:38:30] with Magnussen, you see

[00:38:32] this is where you should be

[00:38:34] when you come to Formula 1

[00:38:36] and you want to prove that you're a future world champion

[00:38:38] that's exactly how Michael

[00:38:40] came to Formula 1

[00:38:42] Michael came to Formula 1

[00:38:44] and he was at an OP5 first practice

[00:38:46] you need luck

[00:38:48] you need the right car

[00:38:52] there's too much sentimental

[00:38:54] feelings probably behind Mick

[00:38:56] and not so much

[00:38:58] from the public point of view

[00:39:00] and not so much

[00:39:02] well

[00:39:04] analysis

[00:39:06] so

[00:39:08] an unemotional analysis

[00:39:10] of where are we at

[00:39:12] and there is quite a few people

[00:39:14] out there in the paddock

[00:39:16] who I've spoken to

[00:39:18] including Gunther Steiner

[00:39:20] who was very unemotional about it

[00:39:22] he said, well Jesus, the bloke is actually sweet

[00:39:24] and I feel sorry for him

[00:39:26] but

[00:39:28] that's not the way to become

[00:39:30] a good Formula 1 driver

[00:39:32] and he had his chance

[00:39:34] whether he's ever going to get another one

[00:39:36] I have my doubts

[00:39:38] that's actually very nicely summarized

[00:39:40] because the driver market

[00:39:42] is fully open

[00:39:44] but there is very little talk

[00:39:46] of Mick getting a seat in

[00:39:48] if you ask Alpine, they say

[00:39:50] he's contracted to Mercedes for Formula 1

[00:39:52] and Mercedes has an open cockpit

[00:39:54] with Lewis going to Ferrari

[00:39:56] and Toto Wolf was very vocal

[00:39:58] last year about the good work

[00:40:00] Mick was doing in the simulator

[00:40:02] behind the scenes

[00:40:04] but when he's got a seat open

[00:40:06] at Mercedes

[00:40:08] he's probably made no noise about

[00:40:10] putting Mick in that seat either

[00:40:12] so it seems extremely

[00:40:14] difficult that he's

[00:40:16] probably going to make a comeback

[00:40:18] get a second chance to Formula 1

[00:40:20] or do you probably think

[00:40:22] sports car if he does well

[00:40:24] because Alpine has now said, wow he's driven some lap times

[00:40:26] we never imagined

[00:40:28] so the PR machinery is back at work again

[00:40:30] do you believe that

[00:40:32] would you give him a second chance

[00:40:34] let me flip that around

[00:40:36] that's a hard one

[00:40:38] I would say it's very unrealistic

[00:40:40] to have a driver who had

[00:40:42] his chance back in Formula 1

[00:40:44] because he does well in a sports car

[00:40:46] so many good sports car drivers out there

[00:40:48] if I was a team owner

[00:40:50] like say Toto Wolf

[00:40:54] I knew everything about the driver

[00:40:56] from the simulator

[00:40:58] from the car because he's done some testing

[00:41:00] for them too

[00:41:02] I would know everything anyway

[00:41:04] and I would then have my reasons

[00:41:06] to say

[00:41:08] no, I need someone better

[00:41:10] and that's what Toto did

[00:41:12] he said, ah it's fantastic

[00:41:14] and he helps us a lot

[00:41:16] well that was PR bullshit

[00:41:18] yes he did a good job in the simulator

[00:41:20] absolutely I don't doubt that by any minute

[00:41:22] but

[00:41:24] if he

[00:41:26] you know nowadays in Formula 1

[00:41:28] everybody knows

[00:41:30] exactly what the opposition is doing

[00:41:32] you know exactly how good

[00:41:34] a better driver is

[00:41:36] how consistent he is

[00:41:38] so

[00:41:40] I don't think that

[00:41:42] there is

[00:41:44] Toto likes Mick

[00:41:46] and he liked obviously

[00:41:48] Michael

[00:41:50] but

[00:41:52] he has his reasons not to put him into that car

[00:41:54] and the driver who

[00:41:56] you know replaced Mick

[00:41:58] in Formula 1, Nico Hulkenberg

[00:42:00] he's of course made

[00:42:02] headline news

[00:42:04] because I remember when Audi first

[00:42:06] bought Sauber and they were buying in incrementally

[00:42:08] the conversation

[00:42:10] was 2026

[00:42:12] Schumacher and Fettel at Audi

[00:42:14] that's what the rumors at that time

[00:42:16] were, who would have ever imagined

[00:42:18] that Nico Hulkenberg after a 3 year absence

[00:42:20] would actually make a

[00:42:22] comeback with Haas

[00:42:24] and he would have known what they were missing

[00:42:26] and how good he was

[00:42:28] and be Audi's first ever

[00:42:30] signing in Formula 1

[00:42:32] how do you rate Hulkenberg

[00:42:34] do you think he is underrated

[00:42:36] especially because of this whole stat

[00:42:38] that most races without a podium

[00:42:40] but where do you think Hulkenberg fits

[00:42:42] within the talent pool

[00:42:44] currently in Formula 1

[00:42:46] I think he is exceptionally good

[00:42:48] and forget the fact that

[00:42:50] he hasn't finished a race on the podium

[00:42:52] you must look at the races he did

[00:42:54] and what he got out of the car he's driven

[00:42:56] and he got out of the car most of the time

[00:42:58] whatever was in it

[00:43:00] and if the car wasn't good enough for

[00:43:02] P3 it was probably good enough for

[00:43:04] P5 or P4 or P10

[00:43:06] and he always squeezed out the maximum

[00:43:08] and give him a car

[00:43:10] that's better and of course

[00:43:12] naturally he's going to be on the podium

[00:43:14] I rate him extremely high

[00:43:16] because he is very professional

[00:43:18] and he is no bullshit

[00:43:20] he is just fast

[00:43:22] reliable

[00:43:24] he knows what he's doing

[00:43:26] he knows what he's talking about

[00:43:28] and that's exactly what

[00:43:30] the team needed after

[00:43:32] someone who kept telling them

[00:43:34] I need to learn this and I need to learn

[00:43:36] that has no time to learn nowadays

[00:43:38] you have to deliver immediately

[00:43:40] and I think it's very good for him

[00:43:42] it's very good for Audi

[00:43:44] it'll be tough though

[00:43:46] but

[00:43:48] I think his bank account

[00:43:50] will appreciate

[00:43:52] I must

[00:43:54] add some more context

[00:43:56] using him being very professional

[00:43:58] and a very friendly driver

[00:44:00] because I spent years with him at Force India

[00:44:02] and especially the year when

[00:44:04] he was a test driver

[00:44:06] he made a lot of trips to India

[00:44:08] for the junior driver program

[00:44:10] for the sponsors

[00:44:12] and he and I actually spent a lot of time

[00:44:14] just talking about life in general

[00:44:16] and he walked away saying

[00:44:18] wow if this is how a hulk is supposed to be

[00:44:20] the hulk should be as gentle

[00:44:22] as how Nico is

[00:44:24] so it gives me awesome pleasure

[00:44:26] when I see him doing well

[00:44:28] I drop him a text or through year

[00:44:30] and now saying wow it's amazing

[00:44:32] to see you do so well

[00:44:34] but like you said

[00:44:36] Audi is going to be tough

[00:44:38] Audi is going to be where he gets his chance

[00:44:40] hopefully with 2026

[00:44:42] but would you know more

[00:44:44] Audi project

[00:44:46] because there's a lot of secrecy

[00:44:48] a lot of things not being spoken also out of the context

[00:44:50] that they want to give

[00:44:52] and previously last year

[00:44:54] Alfa Romeo all the respect for all the money they've put in

[00:44:56] but why is there so much

[00:44:58] why should a Formula 1 fan

[00:45:00] be positive about

[00:45:02] Audi entering 2026

[00:45:04] apart from the fact that there's just a new manufacturer

[00:45:06] coming in

[00:45:08] well yet again a very good question

[00:45:10] because

[00:45:12] Audi the mentality within Audi is very simple

[00:45:16] whatever they started in racing

[00:45:18] they won it

[00:45:20] whether it was rally

[00:45:22] whether it was the pre-war stuff

[00:45:24] whether it was

[00:45:26] during cars or transam

[00:45:28] whatever they did in the states

[00:45:30] whether it was DTM

[00:45:32] whether it was Le Mans

[00:45:34] with all sorts of cars and regulations

[00:45:36] with a diesel and with a spider

[00:45:38] and with a coupe

[00:45:40] and that is probably the biggest

[00:45:43] by far the biggest problem of the whole project

[00:45:46] because it's never been

[00:45:48] so difficult and they

[00:45:50] I don't think

[00:45:52] inside Audi they're aware

[00:45:54] of the difficulties you have

[00:45:56] in Formula 1

[00:45:58] the people Andreas and these guys are running the show

[00:46:00] they know obviously

[00:46:02] but it's going to be very very difficult

[00:46:04] and the approach

[00:46:06] and the expectations

[00:46:08] are

[00:46:10] not easy to compensate

[00:46:12] but on that

[00:46:14] it's sort of now

[00:46:16] Sao-ber becoming Audi

[00:46:18] and again with Sao-ber

[00:46:20] it's a team that has previously

[00:46:22] also gotten a manufacturer in the form of BMW

[00:46:24] and that eventually

[00:46:26] didn't quite work out very well

[00:46:28] with the financial crisis coming in

[00:46:30] the mistiming of it all

[00:46:32] it was almost about to peak

[00:46:34] and then it went away

[00:46:36] and then the next person would be

[00:46:38] would be Andreas Seidel because he was there at that time

[00:46:40] and he's now leading that project at Audi

[00:46:42] what do you think Audi has to do differently

[00:46:44] than what BMW did to make sure that this project works?

[00:46:46] Well

[00:46:48] more patience

[00:46:50] and

[00:46:52] they have to

[00:46:54] invest

[00:46:56] zillions and zillions again

[00:46:58] it's not done with what they think it is

[00:47:00] because

[00:47:02] you know I in real my girlfriend lives

[00:47:04] close to this place and I'm there

[00:47:06] drive past every now and then

[00:47:08] I know the place

[00:47:10] and it is

[00:47:12] last time it was renovated and brought up to speed

[00:47:14] and up to spec was with

[00:47:16] BMW

[00:47:18] they are way behind

[00:47:20] on construction

[00:47:22] and on

[00:47:26] production

[00:47:28] and construction facilities

[00:47:30] let alone

[00:47:32] the development

[00:47:34] you know and all that

[00:47:36] it's not just

[00:47:40] well

[00:47:42] I think Audi

[00:47:44] inside they are underestimating it

[00:47:46] totally underestimating it

[00:47:48] they think we're Audi and we're going to win it

[00:47:50] we're the best anyway

[00:47:52] I tell you the task

[00:47:54] is tremendous

[00:47:56] they have in Andreas

[00:47:58] they have a very very good man

[00:48:00] it's what it takes

[00:48:02] whether they're ever going to get there

[00:48:04] I don't know because at the moment

[00:48:06] that the team

[00:48:08] is so far away from

[00:48:10] the Red Bulls

[00:48:12] and the Mercedes and the Ferrari

[00:48:14] and even now the Aston Martins

[00:48:16] of this world

[00:48:18] it'll be a very much of

[00:48:20] an uphill struggle

[00:48:22] and it just depends on whether they

[00:48:24] they hang in there for long enough

[00:48:26] but you saw with

[00:48:28] BMW there's always a reason to pull the plug

[00:48:30] and there's always a reason for

[00:48:32] any manufacturer to pull the plug

[00:48:34] because if this is good for the company

[00:48:36] the shareholders in order

[00:48:38] they pull the plug

[00:48:40] they don't do it like a racing team

[00:48:42] that hasn't got anything else

[00:48:44] but it's racing activities

[00:48:46] you can't pull the plug on yourself

[00:48:48] you can't pull the plug on

[00:48:50] an activity that you're

[00:48:52] trying to use to

[00:48:54] boost your image and your technology

[00:48:58] we will see

[00:49:00] it's pretty much of an uphill struggle

[00:49:02] I think it won't be easy at all for Audi

[00:49:04] and Sauer as such

[00:49:06] I think the one driver

[00:49:08] who you need to take

[00:49:10] on the drive path that you said

[00:49:12] around Hinwill is Carlos Sainz

[00:49:14] because it's of course

[00:49:16] known in the paddock that Audi's made

[00:49:18] a significant offer to Carlos Sainz

[00:49:20] he's waiting to see

[00:49:22] whether to take it or not

[00:49:24] his answer will depend on Max Verstappen

[00:49:26] Carlos Sainz made a very interesting statement

[00:49:28] which I thought was

[00:49:30] a bit of a giveaway

[00:49:32] he said nobody knows where they're going to be in 2026

[00:49:34] it's all a lottery

[00:49:36] with the

[00:49:38] insights that you've shared

[00:49:40] that Audi is up for an uphill challenge

[00:49:42] maybe at least it will help

[00:49:44] Carlos make up

[00:49:46] some sort of a mind

[00:49:48] whether or not to take up the offer

[00:49:50] but do you believe

[00:49:52] that's where the crux of

[00:49:54] the market is right now

[00:49:56] what Carlos is going to do and hence before that

[00:49:58] what Max Verstappen is going to do

[00:50:00] and that's Audi's main game plan

[00:50:02] Well, you know

[00:50:04] number one Carlos Sainz

[00:50:06] Junior knows very well

[00:50:08] what's going on because of Carlos Sainz

[00:50:10] Senior

[00:50:12] Carlos Sainz Senior is very well connected to the Volkswagen

[00:50:14] Herakie because of his own history

[00:50:16] he's very well connected into

[00:50:18] Audi and not only top floor management

[00:50:20] also the operating

[00:50:22] level of it so he knows

[00:50:24] damn well what's going on and where the tasks

[00:50:26] and the challenges are

[00:50:28] so Carlos

[00:50:30] Carlos's words I appreciate

[00:50:32] what he said and I actually

[00:50:34] actually absolutely 100%

[00:50:36] right spot on

[00:50:38] the driver market as you mentioned

[00:50:40] is a little bit

[00:50:44] is a little bit crazy because

[00:50:46] it depends

[00:50:48] very much

[00:50:50] Louis started it all off

[00:50:52] with his move to Ferrari

[00:50:54] Ferrari then had to decide

[00:50:56] who am I going to sack and who am I going to keep

[00:50:58] the fact that Carlos

[00:51:00] now seems at least as good

[00:51:02] or even better than Leclerc

[00:51:04] doesn't make the situation any easier

[00:51:06] for Carlos Sainz

[00:51:08] the problem is

[00:51:10] you know he I'm sure he's

[00:51:12] speaking to Mercedes

[00:51:14] it's a possibility

[00:51:16] I'm sure he's speaking to Audi

[00:51:18] who else is he speaking to

[00:51:20] I don't know what other

[00:51:22] things are interesting for him

[00:51:24] but the driver market

[00:51:26] depends now very much

[00:51:28] not on the drivers but on Adrian

[00:51:30] what Adrian is going to do

[00:51:32] if Adrian knew he's actually leaving

[00:51:34] Red Bull then there is no

[00:51:36] reason for Max to stay more

[00:51:38] than a year because whatever

[00:51:40] is run and is designed

[00:51:42] now is still Adrian's car

[00:51:44] for next year

[00:51:46] and eventually they're going to run out

[00:51:48] of momentum without Adrian

[00:51:50] there's no doubt about it

[00:51:52] so wherever he goes

[00:51:54] makes a big change to the rest

[00:51:56] of the driver market because

[00:51:58] you know they're stopping can easily go

[00:52:00] to Mercedes if Adrian knew

[00:52:02] he's not staying with Red Bull

[00:52:04] and then of course the Red Bull

[00:52:06] is still a very attractive team

[00:52:08] so maybe Carlos is

[00:52:10] going to go there but it depends

[00:52:12] on Adrian and on the

[00:52:14] situation more than the driver market

[00:52:16] who would have thought

[00:52:18] a designer having so much impact

[00:52:20] on the way the market functions

[00:52:22] we truly are in such

[00:52:24] an unprecedented time

[00:52:26] and on Adrian knew he right

[00:52:28] everyone has their own opinion

[00:52:30] I know we all have spoken about it

[00:52:32] I'm sure you must have had a thought

[00:52:34] about it as well

[00:52:36] where do you think he's going

[00:52:38] I just have to ask it

[00:52:40] I know it's all in his head

[00:52:42] because unlimited money in Aston Martin

[00:52:44] you can speak English, you can stay where you are

[00:52:46] you can work with Fernando

[00:52:48] versus the one missing chapter

[00:52:50] in your life and career, Ferrari

[00:52:52] what a choice huh?

[00:52:54] Well I know Adrian

[00:52:56] since 1982

[00:52:58] when he ran my Formula 2 car

[00:53:02] it is a person

[00:53:04] who's very very keen on racing

[00:53:06] he loves

[00:53:08] designing racing cars, he loves to go racing

[00:53:10] and he doesn't want to have

[00:53:12] anything to do with politics

[00:53:14] and all this and this is why

[00:53:16] he is in a position where

[00:53:18] he says well I might want to leave

[00:53:20] and he might actually

[00:53:22] he will actually leave, I don't know

[00:53:24] it's not finalized and not confirmed

[00:53:26] but it's likely

[00:53:28] so

[00:53:31] I think

[00:53:33] in a way

[00:53:35] he has

[00:53:37] not been at Ferrari

[00:53:39] and everybody wants to go to Ferrari

[00:53:41] and maybe the structure there

[00:53:43] is now what he needs and what he likes

[00:53:45] but I can't tell you

[00:53:47] because Adrian is very British

[00:53:49] obviously

[00:53:51] and

[00:53:53] whether he can actually

[00:53:55] do what he wants

[00:53:57] at Maranello or not

[00:53:59] I can't tell you, it's only him who can decide

[00:54:01] because he knows what he wants and what he needs

[00:54:05] I have no idea where he's going

[00:54:07] absolutely no idea

[00:54:09] the obvious ones, yeah Ferrari everybody wants to go

[00:54:11] to Ferrari, fine yes

[00:54:13] but what am I expecting there

[00:54:15] are they all going to like me

[00:54:17] or not

[00:54:19] and the history of British designers

[00:54:21] in Ferrari is only really

[00:54:23] Rory Byrne from South Africa

[00:54:25] who was

[00:54:27] involved, designers

[00:54:29] I'm not talking technical directors like Ross

[00:54:33] whether that's possible or not I don't know

[00:54:35] and that's the best part is it not Christian

[00:54:37] the fact that all of us are

[00:54:39] completely unaware of what his next move could be

[00:54:41] and we're all on the hooks

[00:54:43] like what is he going to do next

[00:54:45] what a time to be a Formula 1 fan

[00:54:47] but before we conclude Christian

[00:54:49] lastly we have to touch upon

[00:54:51] the last German world champion

[00:54:53] and it's kind of

[00:54:55] absurd right that even though he is a champion

[00:54:57] and we eventually end up talking

[00:54:59] about him at the very end

[00:55:01] maybe just just that's just the nature in which

[00:55:03] his efforts are recognized

[00:55:05] but Nico Rosberg

[00:55:07] do you get a feeling that he is somewhat underappreciated

[00:55:09] in your eyes

[00:55:11] because nowadays he's getting a bit of a

[00:55:13] resurgence in popularity at least with the commentary

[00:55:15] that he's doing which is quite sharp and quite incisive

[00:55:17] well

[00:55:19] yes, the thing is

[00:55:21] that he everybody believes

[00:55:23] he's German but he never lived

[00:55:25] in this country, he lived in Monaco

[00:55:27] from, he was born

[00:55:29] in Wiesbaden in Germany

[00:55:31] and the family lived in Monaco

[00:55:33] so he's not German

[00:55:35] like

[00:55:37] like Wettel who grew up here

[00:55:39] and went to school here, I mean

[00:55:41] Rosberg went to school in Monaco

[00:55:43] number one, number two

[00:55:47] he, the fact that he won

[00:55:49] the world championship is something

[00:55:51] and I told him that

[00:55:53] because I get on with him really well

[00:55:55] and we work together on television and stuff

[00:55:57] and we have a chat whenever

[00:55:59] we meet at each other

[00:56:01] I think he did

[00:56:03] the most incredible job

[00:56:05] to beat Lewis because these

[00:56:07] drivers

[00:56:09] like Lewis, they are so incredibly

[00:56:11] good and

[00:56:13] he beat him fair and square

[00:56:15] however it was

[00:56:17] consumed a spot of energy

[00:56:19] and

[00:56:21] the reason why he might not be as popular

[00:56:23] as say Wettel or Schumann

[00:56:25] of course

[00:56:27] was the fact that he quit

[00:56:29] after he won

[00:56:31] and you need a few years in the business

[00:56:33] and you need a few years

[00:56:35] at the very top end

[00:56:37] to remain in the public eye

[00:56:39] and that's what he didn't do

[00:56:41] because he said I'm going to go

[00:56:43] for the children

[00:56:45] and for my wife

[00:56:47] and for my private life

[00:56:49] and it wasn't

[00:56:51] even true

[00:56:53] because the first thing he did

[00:56:55] was sign the contract with Sky

[00:56:57] to do television

[00:56:59] in Formula 1

[00:57:01] so

[00:57:03] it's a bit kind of

[00:57:05] I fully understand him

[00:57:07] and appreciate what he's done

[00:57:09] but

[00:57:11] the fact why he's not so popular

[00:57:13] is probably these two reasons

[00:57:15] number one, he's Monagask

[00:57:17] and number two

[00:57:19] he's not

[00:57:21] stayed there as a world champion

[00:57:23] and prepared to continue

[00:57:25] which I appreciate, you know

[00:57:27] I don't blame him like Nicky Lauda

[00:57:29] blamed him a lot and he was very cross with him

[00:57:31] and I said to Nicky

[00:57:33] I think

[00:57:35] it's his responsibility

[00:57:37] and he knows himself better than anybody else

[00:57:39] so

[00:57:41] he can take the decision every which way he wants

[00:57:43] and when he retired

[00:57:45] I think the timing wasn't quite brilliant then

[00:57:47] but

[00:57:49] that's fine

[00:57:51] I like his analysis

[00:57:53] he's a little anti-louis occasionally

[00:57:55] but

[00:57:57] which I can laugh about

[00:57:59] it like you can

[00:58:01] I mean, fair enough

[00:58:03] just a little bit would be okay after you've done so much

[00:58:05] and beating him

[00:58:07] but it's fun to listen to him

[00:58:09] do you get a chance to listen to his stuff

[00:58:11] sometimes Christian?

[00:58:13] yeah, yeah, I can

[00:58:15] nowadays on social media

[00:58:17] and

[00:58:19] you can get the clips from whatever he says

[00:58:21] and mentions

[00:58:23] in the internet easily

[00:58:25] so yeah, I'm not going to be

[00:58:27] watching him live on television

[00:58:29] because I'm doing my own job

[00:58:31] but I

[00:58:33] follow his

[00:58:35] his words

[00:58:37] but on that

[00:58:39] we should now also move on to

[00:58:41] Ayrton Senna

[00:58:43] unfortunately 30 years since the day where both

[00:58:45] him and Roland Ratzenberg

[00:58:47] unfortunately passed away, Immola 94

[00:58:49] and

[00:58:51] it was a time that was absolutely

[00:58:53] different from what we currently have

[00:58:55] and I firstly Christian want to know

[00:58:57] your story of it like where were you

[00:58:59] at that time? Were you at the races

[00:59:01] covering it for RTL?

[00:59:03] and if you were, what was it like?

[00:59:05] I was racing somewhere else with DTM

[00:59:07] I think and I

[00:59:09] called Heinz-Harold Frensson after

[00:59:11] it had happened

[00:59:13] and we were both talking to each other

[00:59:15] saying a word

[00:59:17] because none of us could actually believe

[00:59:19] what had happened

[00:59:21] and you know

[00:59:23] it is up until now

[00:59:25] today

[00:59:27] sometimes

[00:59:29] you wake up in the morning

[00:59:31] and you think this has not happened

[00:59:33] and you think

[00:59:35] ah no, no it was Immola

[00:59:37] and he got killed

[00:59:39] and it kind of

[00:59:41] appeared

[00:59:43] that happened to me occasionally

[00:59:45] that

[00:59:47] you know, Erton was such

[00:59:49] an incredible personality

[00:59:51] that you just don't want to believe

[00:59:53] it has happened

[00:59:55] and now all these years

[00:59:57] later it is still the same

[00:59:59] and I tell you what, sometimes

[01:00:01] I meet Roland Ratzenberg's father

[01:00:03] who lives in Salzburg

[01:00:05] not far away from here

[01:00:07] and I get the impression he

[01:00:09] still hasn't swallowed it

[01:00:11] somehow

[01:00:13] sometimes I'm sure he gets up in the morning and says

[01:00:15] no, it can't be true

[01:00:17] and then of course he is

[01:00:19] liaising with reality

[01:00:21] and he has to say

[01:00:23] it is true

[01:00:25] but

[01:00:27] with me and Senna

[01:00:29] I liked him an awful lot

[01:00:31] and I had the privilege to actually

[01:00:33] race in the same championship

[01:00:35] with him

[01:00:37] and he was the most extraordinary character

[01:00:39] I ever came across

[01:00:41] and for me he is

[01:00:43] light years ahead of anybody else

[01:00:47] not only his way of driving

[01:00:49] but also because of his personality

[01:00:51] and really

[01:00:53] you know, when I think of Erton

[01:00:55] I can tell you a little

[01:00:57] funny little anecdote

[01:00:59] not from the days then

[01:01:01] but you know

[01:01:03] a guy called Joe Ramirez

[01:01:05] Joe Ramirez used to be

[01:01:07] a manager at McLaren in the Senna days

[01:01:09] and when Joe was retired

[01:01:11] Ron Dennis

[01:01:13] kind of threw a little invitation

[01:01:15] I wouldn't want to call it a party

[01:01:17] but everybody was involved

[01:01:19] and everybody was invited

[01:01:21] the lads, the mechanics

[01:01:23] and a lot of

[01:01:25] people that was in the

[01:01:27] Italy York Museum in Indianapolis

[01:01:29] an Indian Native American

[01:01:31] Indian Art Museum which is a very nice

[01:01:33] location and I remember

[01:01:35] we were standing there having a beer

[01:01:37] chatting along

[01:01:39] and there was

[01:01:41] big huge photographs of the drivers

[01:01:43] appearing on the screen

[01:01:45] you know, like a huge screen there was

[01:01:47] and there was Martin

[01:01:49] Blundell

[01:01:51] and there was Prost

[01:01:53] and suddenly there was Senna

[01:01:55] and

[01:01:57] at this moment

[01:01:59] the whole party went silent

[01:02:01] I

[01:02:03] still get very strange

[01:02:05] feelings when I remember that moment

[01:02:07] that was the case

[01:02:09] you didn't really have to say anything

[01:02:11] it was as if Jesus Christ himself

[01:02:13] entered the room

[01:02:15] for a second

[01:02:17] remember

[01:02:19] and then went again

[01:02:21] everybody went quiet, I mean

[01:02:23] there was 150 people

[01:02:25] all chatting and having a beer in their hands

[01:02:27] and there was a picture of Airton

[01:02:29] and it went quiet

[01:02:31] that was

[01:02:33] very Senna, he wasn't just a driver

[01:02:35] he was

[01:02:37] from another planet

[01:02:39] let's call it that way

[01:02:41] so he meant a lot to me

[01:02:43] he helped me personally too

[01:02:45] in some difficult moments

[01:02:49] yeah, I mean what a privilege

[01:02:51] I had to actually

[01:02:53] get on with this

[01:02:55] kind of person

[01:02:57] he was very demanding

[01:02:59] we had a water skiing one day in Austria

[01:03:01] between the

[01:03:03] Budapest Grand Prix

[01:03:05] and the Austrian Grand Prix

[01:03:07] and we were all in the same hotel

[01:03:09] Gerhard

[01:03:11] Berger, Alain, myself

[01:03:13] also there

[01:03:15] can't remember

[01:03:17] and in the morning Gerhard

[01:03:19] had this boat to go water skiing

[01:03:21] and we went water skiing early in the morning

[01:03:23] which is very nice because the lake is very flat

[01:03:25] and it was Gerhard's boat

[01:03:27] well a friend of Gerhard's

[01:03:29] and therefore Gerhard's

[01:03:31] so Airton was there and

[01:03:33] happy to go water skiing

[01:03:35] and he just simply took over

[01:03:37] he was the captain in no time

[01:03:39] which is sat there

[01:03:41] and we're waiting

[01:03:43] for him to call his shots

[01:03:45] and shit, he was a good water skier too

[01:03:49] a lot better than Gerhard and I together

[01:03:53] but anyway

[01:03:55] lots of funny little stories to be told

[01:03:59] but the first one I gave you

[01:04:01] from Choromiris'

[01:04:03] party that probably

[01:04:05] says it all

[01:04:07] he was very very different

[01:04:09] to everybody else I ever met

[01:04:11] what year was this again if I may

[01:04:13] was it at the time when he was driving or

[01:04:15] no no no no this was

[01:04:17] Choromiris was retired in

[01:04:19] 2000 and

[01:04:21] ah it was back then, okay exactly

[01:04:23] Indianapolis Grand Prix when was the first

[01:04:25] Indian Grand Prix

[01:04:27] on the new track

[01:04:29] it was a little later than that

[01:04:31] the first and second

[01:04:33] it was years after he passed away

[01:04:37] what a personality

[01:04:39] and

[01:04:41] still get goosebumps listening to his stories

[01:04:43] every single time

[01:04:45] well I can't help it, it's just there

[01:04:47] unbelievable

[01:04:49] unbelievable

[01:04:51] well what else can we talk about Christian

[01:04:53] I really want to know your thoughts on

[01:04:55] Porsche because

[01:04:57] for me that story was also so

[01:04:59] big that while already was

[01:05:01] preparing an entry while Ford was also

[01:05:03] getting their way in, Porsche were also

[01:05:05] having chats with everyone

[01:05:07] I mean if the rumor was correct

[01:05:09] they spoke to all the big teams and

[01:05:11] had the potential of manufacturing their engines

[01:05:13] and it seemed odd to

[01:05:15] me because why would the

[01:05:17] Volkswagen group have two of their brands

[01:05:19] trying to enter at the same time I mean they really must have

[01:05:21] left Formula 1 at that point to think

[01:05:23] about it but what just

[01:05:25] happened there, why did it all

[01:05:27] not work out and why

[01:05:29] has Red Bull opted for Ford instead of

[01:05:31] Porsche? Well Red Bull didn't

[01:05:33] opt for Ford instead of Porsche

[01:05:35] Red Bull opted for

[01:05:37] remaining independent and do whatever

[01:05:39] they wanted to. I can understand

[01:05:41] that because they always thought that

[01:05:43] they are depending too much

[01:05:45] on the engine manufacturer

[01:05:47] they had a very very bad relationship

[01:05:49] with Renault because Renault

[01:05:51] never did what they wanted or at least

[01:05:53] that's the Red Bull point of view

[01:05:55] and

[01:05:57] eventually they

[01:05:59] lost a lot of championship

[01:06:01] simply because the Mercedes

[01:06:03] engine was so much better and it was

[01:06:05] a significant advantage to have your own car

[01:06:07] end engine with these

[01:06:09] complicated not engines anymore

[01:06:11] they are called powertrains

[01:06:13] nowadays.

[01:06:15] This is when they

[01:06:17] always wanted their own engine and

[01:06:19] once Dietrich Matyschitz finally

[01:06:21] agreed to now ok we've

[01:06:23] had enough because

[01:06:25] the Honda thing was a lot of

[01:06:27] Red Bull technical input

[01:06:29] until it

[01:06:31] became successful

[01:06:33] they said now

[01:06:35] let's do our own thing

[01:06:37] and eventually

[01:06:39] that led to the Ford thing which

[01:06:41] was then ok

[01:06:43] how about that we

[01:06:45] were Ford and we jump

[01:06:47] onto the development which they

[01:06:49] don't know what they've been doing

[01:06:51] that's

[01:06:53] that's what it was

[01:06:55] and the Volkswagen thing

[01:06:57] Intel politics

[01:06:59] crazy politics I don't know

[01:07:03] It's absurd like

[01:07:05] were you as confused as well at that point

[01:07:07] like Ford and like Appa Prussia

[01:07:09] and Audi both at the same time

[01:07:11] who have actually pulled their entries out from WEC

[01:07:13] together?

[01:07:15] I wasn't surprised

[01:07:19] it was in a way

[01:07:21] it was

[01:07:23] close to what you had to expect from

[01:07:25] a company called Volkswagen or

[01:07:27] a big holding

[01:07:29] they were always kind of

[01:07:31] strange

[01:07:33] they raised each other with Porsche versus Audi

[01:07:37] so it was no surprise for me that

[01:07:39] I was going to go ahead with the same project

[01:07:41] in Formula 1

[01:07:43] it doesn't make any sense at all as you all know

[01:07:45] but it's Volkswagen

[01:07:47] I just do it their way

[01:07:49] fine, I appreciate that

[01:07:51] very nice

[01:07:53] as we speak

[01:07:55] I just got a word from

[01:07:57] Kunal

[01:07:59] wait is it true that even he was leaving Kunal?

[01:08:01] just as we were recording?

[01:08:03] the news has just been confirmed

[01:08:05] yeah it's quite likely

[01:08:07] that he's going

[01:08:09] as I mentioned in this

[01:08:11] recording earlier on

[01:08:13] the official confirmation

[01:08:15] wasn't out yet if it is out now

[01:08:17] nothing has changed

[01:08:19] it doesn't surprise me

[01:08:23] it came from likely to affect

[01:08:25] so yeah

[01:08:27] well fine, the interesting thing is not that he's leaving

[01:08:29] where is he going to?

[01:08:31] exactly

[01:08:33] crazy how it's all working out

[01:08:35] well this was so much fun

[01:08:37] seriously Christian

[01:08:39] I mean

[01:08:41] we have had the time of my life

[01:08:43] literally listening in and just enjoying

[01:08:45] seriously thank you

[01:08:47] thank you for taking the time today

[01:08:49] I thought you were going to ask me about the new German drivers

[01:08:51] who is coming next

[01:08:53] and will rest a bit

[01:08:55] no you see, the thing is

[01:08:57] we do have a good German lad

[01:08:59] young driver called Tim Tramnitz

[01:09:01] he's racing in Formula 3

[01:09:03] and what I wanted to say

[01:09:05] and that maybe is a good end of the whole story

[01:09:07] people look at Formula 1 nowadays

[01:09:09] and they say ah it's all so different

[01:09:11] you can't compare it to

[01:09:13] Formula 1 when you drove it

[01:09:15] or to racing cars when you drove

[01:09:17] and

[01:09:19] it's all technology

[01:09:21] and it's all fantastic

[01:09:23] and I said well still at the end of the day

[01:09:25] you have to drive the car

[01:09:27] and I was in Misano, a little racetrack in Italy

[01:09:29] for the Formula E race

[01:09:31] and I ran into a guy

[01:09:33] into this guy Tim Tramnitz

[01:09:35] and a 19 year old kid

[01:09:37] he started the year

[01:09:39] very well

[01:09:41] and we talked about

[01:09:43] balance of cars and how to cope

[01:09:45] with attire performance

[01:09:47] and about steering angles and slip angles

[01:09:49] and car setups

[01:09:51] and that's when

[01:09:53] I was so happy in a way

[01:09:55] because there is a young guy

[01:09:57] who is just at the beginning of his career

[01:09:59] in Formula 3, in a modern world of Formula 1

[01:10:01] and in a modern world

[01:10:03] of St. Grand Prix racing

[01:10:05] and we're talking about the same

[01:10:07] fundamentals like

[01:10:09] I've done with Johnny Shacotto

[01:10:11] with Ertensenna, with Gerhard Berger

[01:10:13] with Alain Prost

[01:10:15] with everybody I spoke to about cars

[01:10:17] has never changed

[01:10:19] and that is something that I wanted to

[01:10:21] mention at the end of this interview

[01:10:23] because many people believe

[01:10:25] these old farts they got no idea

[01:10:27] we might not have the same

[01:10:29] approach as far as social media is concerned

[01:10:31] although you can reach me on

[01:10:33] social media

[01:10:35] but the laws of

[01:10:37] physics haven't changed

[01:10:39] and a general understanding in motor racing

[01:10:41] is still the same, you should win the race

[01:10:43] and not lose it

[01:10:45] and also the fundamentals

[01:10:47] I like that you mentioned that because so many drivers

[01:10:49] miss out on that but every good

[01:10:51] national champion I've spoken to here in India

[01:10:53] also says the same thing

[01:10:55] but if you know how to drive a race car

[01:10:57] you can drive anything

[01:10:59] and that's such a...

[01:11:01] it's four contact patches

[01:11:03] and you're fighting the laws

[01:11:05] of physics

[01:11:07] and the big hero in that respect

[01:11:09] is

[01:11:13] the law

[01:11:15] that any mass

[01:11:17] would like to stay where it is

[01:11:19] and you have to overcome this problem

[01:11:21] it's Sir Isaac Newton

[01:11:23] so you read Sir Isaac Newton

[01:11:25] back in the 17th century

[01:11:27] or whatever, 18th century

[01:11:29] whenever he had that

[01:11:31] this is a race car driver's day to day job

[01:11:33] overcome

[01:11:35] these problems

[01:11:37] that Sir Isaac Newton had written down

[01:11:39] for the first time

[01:11:41] maybe the next time we should chat about that

[01:11:43] more depth as well about how do you actually drive

[01:11:45] a race car, rather drive any race car

[01:11:47] fast because I know a lot of people listening

[01:11:49] would love to get to those depths

[01:11:51] as well and personally I might be a little nerdy

[01:11:53] because I'm looking at my Simrig right

[01:11:55] behind the screen

[01:11:57] it hasn't been touched for a while because I

[01:11:59] gave up on that idea of trying to explore the laws of physics

[01:12:01] as much so it'll be cool to listen in

[01:12:03] and get your insights on how to do better

[01:12:05] very good

[01:12:07] amazing, amazing

[01:12:09] thank you so much for your time

[01:12:11] the stories were unbelievable

[01:12:13] seriously

[01:12:43] huge thank you to Amazon Music once again

[01:12:45] for partnering with us on this episode of the podcast