Strap in for another episode of HR's most irreverent show where we dive headfirst into the HR abyss. The Chad & Cheese sit down with John Baldino, a man whoтАЩs been around the HR block longer than our interns have been alive, and dissect everything that's hilariously wrong (and sometimes right) in the world of human resources.
- Fear Factor: HR Edition: Why is HR so terrified of the C-suite? We'll explore the existential dread of asking for more budget and why HR prefers to live in the land of "No Money, Mo' Problems."
- Tech Wreck Tech Deck: Listen as we ridicule the shiny new HR technologies that promise the moon but deliver a piece of cheese. John breaks down why these tools often end up as expensive digital paperweights.
- The Boomerang Boomers: Why are retirees flooding back to the workforce? Is it for the love of the job or just because they can't afford Netflix on their pensions? We'll look at why the golden years are now being spent in cubicles rather than on cruises.
- Leadership or Lack Thereof: Get ready for John's rant on why today's HR leaders might just be masquerading as competent professionals. Spoiler alert: It involves a lot of snark and some uncomfortable truths about leadership (or the absence of it).
Tune in for an episode that promises to be as enlightening as it is entertaining, with plenty of laughs, a few cringes, and maybe some existential questioning of your career choices. Don't forget to leave your sensibilities at the doorтАФthis ride isnтАЩt for the faint of heart or the humorless in HR.
[00:00:00] Hide your kids lock the doors. You're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast Chad Soosh and Joel cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry
[00:00:10] Right where her complete with breaking news
[00:00:13] opinion and loads of snark
[00:00:24] Yeah, what's up everybody we are live at transform is bumping up in this is bugsy seagulls favorite podcast
[00:00:30] Aka the Chad and cheese podcast
[00:00:33] I'm your co-host Joel cheeseman joined as always the David to my copper field Chad So washes here and we welcome
[00:00:41] John Baldeen
[00:00:45] President of huma rezo nice nice wait a minute. I thought he was tech support for Chad and cheese
[00:00:53] Just on battery duty. It doesn't pay very well
[00:00:56] I think president of humor rezo
[00:00:59] Was a better gig for you look at you. I'm gonna have you do voiceover work
[00:01:05] I was gonna make a bald Dino joke, but I won't know anything about my D. I got I got two bald guys ganging up on me
[00:01:13] That's he wishes he did though. He wishes he did that's an Oreo
[00:01:16] I don't want to be any part of
[00:01:18] John a lot of our listeners don't know you give them the quick Twitter bio and a little bit about the company before we get into it
[00:01:24] Let's start with an insult a lot. Don't know about me. That's really nice
[00:01:29] We like to start things we got set expectations. There are three billion people in the world John
[00:01:34] How many know you know, I've only been doing this work for you know, 30 plus years. I've been around a minute
[00:01:41] That's a flex. I've been in this industry
[00:01:44] total flex
[00:01:45] Listen, we're here at transform. I keep walking around and there's these like 19 year olds that are selling product
[00:01:51] I'm like, what are you doing?
[00:01:53] There are no 19 year olds. This is not the beverage and food
[00:01:58] First of all, don't knock beverage and food. Oh, I don't knock beverage and food. I'm just saying that's where the 19 year olds
[00:02:04] Anyway
[00:02:05] John Baldino like I said been around a long time in HR
[00:02:09] Currently it's been 12 years actually for Humoriso at this point, which is crazy Wow
[00:02:14] And we're just having a blast honestly
[00:02:16] We're doing consulting work all over the country
[00:02:18] International as well have great people working with me and for me at Humoriso
[00:02:23] What would a company come to you for they're coming to us for everything from tactical to transformative work
[00:02:29] So technology related org design
[00:02:32] But all the way to compliance handbooks administration. I think you're saying you're a good guy to interview
[00:02:37] We are saying that's what I'm hearing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah lots of opinions. Thank God. Thank God
[00:02:43] So you are speaking at transform
[00:02:48] What's it about? What are you what are you gonna rant about? So I've got a few people joining me tomorrow on
[00:02:53] Really selecting HR technology when you have no budget
[00:02:57] So it's a good talk
[00:03:01] Really the focus will be a lot of HR departments at one like how do you get things done with a limited budget?
[00:03:06] Shouldn't that be like prefaced with how to set your business case so that you can go get cash to actually buy
[00:03:14] Technology because a lot of these individuals like you're saying they don't have budget
[00:03:17] That's total bullshit because none of these companies run without talent. Period, right? So why are we not prefacing with?
[00:03:24] Okay, here's your business case to go get cash from the C-suite because if you don't then guess what shit's gonna break
[00:03:32] Yeah, so first reason we don't is because of fear
[00:03:35] You're a fear your fear or their fear their fear well as a practitioner
[00:03:40] I think we have a lot of folks who are afraid to have these conversations risk risk
[00:03:43] Oh my gosh
[00:03:44] They should not be in leadership positions then well their argument will be what touch that hot stove before and when I sit with my director of
[00:03:50] Finance or CFO they just give me a hard time. And so I don't want to do that anymore
[00:03:54] Okay, well then you're just giving up your power
[00:03:57] That's doesn't sound like the right role for you then no have to give up your power because to your point
[00:04:01] There is money like there is budget to spend on these things and one of the things that's happening
[00:04:07] Is you both know right now is that some of these teams have been cut a bit right?
[00:04:11] There's been riff a team of five is down the four a team of four is down the three whatever
[00:04:16] But you still have to get that work done and so you can offset some of that cost with
[00:04:21] The headcount that you saved even if it's a fraction of it to say we're gonna apply it to this in a different way
[00:04:27] It's not it shouldn't be a net zero. I like you know, we laid somebody off for 80 grand now
[00:04:31] We have 80 grand no no no that worked for 80 grand still has to get done
[00:04:35] You may have cut 80 grand, but we're gonna spend 30 of it on a piece of technology
[00:04:40] That'll help and so you say 50. That's what you should use
[00:04:43] So I digress because we're talking about something entirely different today. We're going to have a different discussion about this
[00:04:49] I'm telling you right now because this is this is one of my biggest issues in our space is we have HR leaders that are not
[00:04:56] Fucking leaders in the first place and that drives me nuts. Yes. I mean that sounds harsh, but it's true
[00:05:01] I mean sometimes the truth is harsh, right? But we're today. We're gonna talk about something even more harsh and that's the
[00:05:07] Aged coming back the return
[00:05:11] aged
[00:05:12] The Empire Strikes back
[00:05:14] Mthuzela coming back to take to take those coming back to the workforce
[00:05:20] So say more what are you gonna talk about in your presentation? The
[00:05:24] Estimates kind of run the gamut right now. Uh-huh on the low end
[00:05:28] 2023 saw at the low end 2 million 65 plus returning to the workforce
[00:05:33] High-end we're seeing numbers 7 million somewhere in that range and those are the boomers
[00:05:38] 65 plus returning to the workforce a couple things to that one is summer part-time
[00:05:44] So it's not full-time. It's in a capacity some way shape or form they've returned to the workforce
[00:05:50] And we're having companies wrestle with that part-timeness
[00:05:55] Because you know, we've got some companies that are like stuck. Yes, you can only work for us 40 hours a week
[00:06:01] No, that's actually not true
[00:06:03] And so they're wrestling with so I can get this person with X amount of years of experience
[00:06:08] Right who's looking to to be useful for 15 hours a week. Can I make that work? Yes more companies are starting to say yes
[00:06:15] Are they returning because the retirement's not there? They're bored
[00:06:20] There's just so much money because there's a labor shortage like why are these folks that should be enjoying their twilight years?
[00:06:26] Yeah back at work
[00:06:27] So it's a great question part of it is the 401k crap out for some people, right?
[00:06:33] They're not they're just not able to bank on as much tensions went away and therefore we're in this situation
[00:06:38] Yeah, I get it. Yeah, and then look we see what the prices are for things
[00:06:42] Right you go to the grocery store and you were budgeting X two years ago when you retired and now you're like, okay
[00:06:47] I can't afford 10 but $10 eggs. Uh-huh something's got to give okay
[00:06:51] So here's the problem John the boomers put us in this fucking situation in the first place and
[00:06:56] And they it's taken them so long to get out of the workforce as it is
[00:07:01] So that the Xers and Millennials can actually get the leadership experience. They need to run companies
[00:07:06] Yeah, these guys are gonna fall off the face of the earth
[00:07:09] That I mean they're going to have actually end up dying out of the workforce, right?
[00:07:13] Then we're going to have
[00:07:15] Organizations that are not prepared because they don't have the talent ready. Yeah, because these assholes won't leave
[00:07:22] Well, first of all, we're still at we're still at about 79 years old for the average death age
[00:07:27] So somebody who's 66 might have a couple of years left on average
[00:07:31] What kind of life is that though right find a beach?
[00:07:34] I mean listen some of them are working as we say this 15 years from now
[00:07:39] We'll be at this stupid podcast booth talking about
[00:07:42] I'm still young I could still do this shit and we're gonna play back this episode
[00:07:46] We're gonna bring some youth into this though. We're going to make sure that the Millennials
[00:07:53] I think that first of all, I think you're you're too kind to be honest
[00:07:57] I think you're too kind that they're in the way of these Millennials becoming
[00:08:02] Yeah, yeah, okay, so be meaner than him. So what I would say is I
[00:08:07] Mean this is a whole other episode I have millennia Millennials that are too afraid to own anything
[00:08:12] They're so risk adverse that they don't want the positions of leadership quite frankly
[00:08:17] Listen, it is and I'm not that I necessarily want to be political
[00:08:21] But I want to be it is absolute tell that we have two
[00:08:24] Methuselahs who are likely to be running for president because we can't get people who want to be leaders in their 40s and 50
[00:08:31] They don't want that responsibility. They should that's a big fucking responsibility
[00:08:36] I'm John being president absolutely, right? You know, I tell this story all the time
[00:08:40] Hold up a second. Hold up like yeah
[00:08:41] Yeah, are you saying there there aren't enough young people who want to be president? Yes, because we had people under 70 in the primary
[00:08:48] Yes, the better argument would be the people don't want younger people running things
[00:08:53] I won't argue that to say that's completely wrong, but I don't know that it's a clear cut
[00:08:57] That's the reason I would say though look when I was young we they used to say the flakes rise to the top
[00:09:03] So when you look in any organization the people who wind up in leadership positions are the ones that just sort of dumbed their way into it, right?
[00:09:11] 90% is just showing up the other people were smart enough to get out of it and say I'm not doing this
[00:09:15] Well, and those people are actually the ones who got out are actually making more money because every time they switch
[00:09:21] They got a 20% rate. That's right, right? Yep. So the flakes. Yeah, they stayed in
[00:09:25] They were the go-to
[00:09:27] Individual at the organization, but they didn't really want to move up
[00:09:31] Well, and I don't know that they know how to sell themselves as well
[00:09:34] Yeah
[00:09:34] So this is connected to the older generation because when the older generation comes back and is helpful
[00:09:40] And I honestly I don't know how the numbers are gonna shake out
[00:09:43] My guess would be the largest percentage will be part time not full time
[00:09:47] And so I think that it's the wisdom in how do you use this older generation in coming back so that they're not in
[00:09:53] The way to your point. Yeah, but they're mentoring and really helping people that are younger to say there's a
[00:09:58] Yeah, they're advised this is how you have to work with the knowledge that you have as opposed to just going on your performance review and saying
[00:10:05] I think I'm pretty good. Let me give myself all fives. What do you mean? I'm meeting expectations
[00:10:10] I'm now gonna boohoo and leave and see if I can be appreciated somewhere else
[00:10:13] Yeah, that's not leadership that isn't teaching anyone how to be a leader when we allow that to happen at all
[00:10:18] Okay, so I'm gonna be I'm gonna generalize. I'm very good at that
[00:10:22] The boomer generation is not a giving generation. It's a me me me
[00:10:26] Rugged individualism fuck off if you can't do it yourself, right? So they're not great mentors
[00:10:31] So is this like a daddy issue thing for you?
[00:10:34] Definitely it definitely is not only that having mentors or quote-unquote
[00:10:39] Leaders above me for my entire career who were boomers. Yeah, it's been a daddy issue from company to company to company
[00:10:46] Right so I mean again, this is more generalizing. This is this is my story
[00:10:51] I guess you can say I'm trying to get it all out here on the Oprah show
[00:10:55] But but that's that's been my experience man. It's been like hey go do it yourself
[00:10:59] It's funny that you say that because what I would say statistically though is you do see more older generation
[00:11:06] Softening so you get to your 70s and you're like
[00:11:09] I don't want to lose my mind on things that I used to lose my mind on yeah
[00:11:13] My parents are a great example of that and I'm sure my mom will listen to this which is gonna be awesome
[00:11:18] They were not kind people my mom and dad. They loved me
[00:11:23] Yes, they were not kind in that regard. No, that's how you're there. That's right
[00:11:27] And my mom still like if you wrong her she's got the book from 1974
[00:11:31] She's gone way back and is going to tell you everything that went on she's ready for it
[00:11:36] My dad was was tough. Yeah, very tough
[00:11:40] But I will tell you by the time the grandkids came along and his
[00:11:43] 60s 70s hit he was a different person than when he raised me, right?
[00:11:49] He was a different person and my kids had a hard time reconciling
[00:11:53] Those stories of what once was with who they understood him to be now
[00:11:57] Yeah, so I liken that a bit to what's happening in the workforce
[00:12:00] And I know it was you know a movie but if you look at the intern if you remember DeNiro
[00:12:04] Yeah, yeah in that movie
[00:12:07] You when he was in his 30s
[00:12:09] He was more the DeNiro that we knew right in that movie both by the time he got to retirement
[00:12:14] It's the DeNiro and heat. Yeah, right
[00:12:16] Then he got to Anne Hathaway and he's like can I drive you somewhere? You know like so much
[00:12:22] Yeah, puppy yeah
[00:12:25] Sleeping with a massage
[00:12:27] You also had the Irishman which computer generated him into a young man again
[00:12:32] Kicking ass and taking names. So I want to get back to something said earlier about maybe we don't need for we'll have three
[00:12:39] But automation and technology will will fill in the gaps
[00:12:42] I want to go back to this executive discussion because there's a startup by the guys in that started jibe
[00:12:49] sold to iSEMs called fora that is sort of a
[00:12:52] Executive co-pilot so using large language models. What kind of decision what an executive make?
[00:12:59] So my question is we're now bringing back the elderly part-time. Yep
[00:13:03] Is there gonna be a world where we don't need them to come back because we have AI?
[00:13:08] To treat us like we have executives on staff. We don't have to hire real people
[00:13:12] I mean fools gold. No, I don't think it's fools. Do I think it's a hundred percent? No, I think look we're already seeing
[00:13:22] AI modeling working in different ways already within organizations, right?
[00:13:26] And so they're adopting it because in some ways they have to and some of it is look
[00:13:31] I can have chat you PT do a development model for me of a program
[00:13:35] Yeah, seven minutes and I'm not buying three people overseas to do this anymore
[00:13:39] That kind of stuff is already happening. Yeah, so when you talk about that specific example though
[00:13:44] I think that one of the things that's difficult for AI to get down in terms of what would their decision-making be?
[00:13:52] There's still something about reading the room that I don't know that we've completely
[00:13:56] Absurd yet. Yes. Well and and also models
[00:13:59] So you've got the Jack Welch model and do we have a model based off of that?
[00:14:03] Right, is that I don't know that you want that that model today doesn't quite work, right?
[00:14:08] So so how does it actually again you talk about nuance nuance and how do you train these models?
[00:14:14] I mean, that's that's the hardest part of it all
[00:14:16] I think culturally we have to look at this from how do we meet people where they are?
[00:14:20] But I can't develop AI modeling that's going to meet people where they are and then keep them where they are
[00:14:26] Some of this AI has to be able to take that person and move them forward
[00:14:31] Yes, so they are gonna have to grow a set they are gonna have to understand
[00:14:34] There's going to be tough conversations. You're not going to get everything you want
[00:14:37] You know, I love what Claude Silver yesterday shared from VaynerMedia in this session
[00:14:42] Where you know
[00:14:42] It was supposed to be like how do we reach out to Gen Z and make them make sure they know
[00:14:46] They're loved and cared for and clothed and fed and you know diapered and all that sounds familiar
[00:14:52] Yeah, how do we do this? And it was like well, we have to be leaders and not bosses
[00:14:56] That's crap
[00:14:57] Because we have to be bosses sometimes and who's defining these words. Well, you have to do both
[00:15:02] You have to do you have to lead and manage. Yes, because managing something's entirely different than being a leader
[00:15:09] 100% right. Yes, we're getting I'm getting applause already from the back
[00:15:12] But it is like that was for me. Thank you. Yeah, okay
[00:15:16] He timed it perfectly. But the idea is like
[00:15:19] She was sharing Claude again that they're there allow people to do gigs, right? They have side gigs
[00:15:25] We love for you to do that go ahead and be have your creative outlet
[00:15:29] But you can't do it for companies that would be competitive to your day job
[00:15:33] And she talked about finding someone on her team who was doing work for a pharmaceutical company
[00:15:39] That wasn't one of their clients
[00:15:40] Okay, I had to go to this person and say you're not allowed to do that and your job is now in jeopardy
[00:15:46] Now is that a boss sure sounds like it to me? Yep sure sounds like it to me. Is she wrong? No
[00:15:52] We teach people how to deal with there are standard operating procedures
[00:15:56] There's no question
[00:15:57] There are guidelines and again you have to manage to those guidelines
[00:16:00] Yep
[00:16:01] But then you have to lead as you're talking about before
[00:16:03] To be able to allow to bring those people forward as opposed to just keeping them in a single level and that's what?
[00:16:09] Coming back to your question Joel
[00:16:11] I think AI will struggle for a little while to do and why some of the influence from from the older generation coming back and saying
[00:16:19] Yeah, what do you see when you see this? How do you network we my gosh even older folks in the business development end of things
[00:16:25] I want them to come back. Yeah, because I'm watching business development people right here right now standing at a booth
[00:16:32] Terrified to talk to anybody walking by
[00:16:35] That's never been it's always been that way though John
[00:16:37] But we have to teach people how to do it nobody's doing it
[00:16:40] I get it, but that is the company's job
[00:16:43] Right and they still haven't fucking learned. No, I know it just it drives me crazy. They sit behind the table
[00:16:49] They don't come in front of the table. I mean, they're just the basics
[00:16:52] Yes, just the basics, but you know you got uncle Vinnie coming to this you bring for 15 hours
[00:16:57] You're like uncle Vinnie show him how it's done. Yo, come here. Let me show you
[00:17:00] We know we laugh about Jack Welch, but I guarantee you if it hasn't been built yet
[00:17:05] What would Jack do calm? Yeah, where you AI Jack's content through the air and say what would Jack do we're down
[00:17:13] And it will tell you what Jack would have done
[00:17:15] Oh, yeah
[00:17:16] In that way like that will be a thing if it isn't already and it would be fairly simple on every occasion
[00:17:21] It would get out the whip fire everyone fire everyone fire everyone
[00:17:26] Yeah, and if that works for an organization great
[00:17:29] But I mean again different organizations different cultures
[00:17:32] So you're in a really unique spot where you cover a lot of general issues with with HR and recruiting and the whole process
[00:17:39] Give us like a state of the industry. What are the pain points that people are talking about?
[00:17:43] What are they sort of wanting from the the the vendor space that they're not maybe getting just give us sort of an overview
[00:17:50] Yeah, I think that you're watching organizations
[00:17:53] struggle
[00:17:54] With managing talent and they're depending upon software to do it and they're starting to realize it
[00:18:00] And I like it in a bit too, you know
[00:18:02] You have kids you send them to school and we wind up having this expectation of what teachers should be doing
[00:18:08] What schools should be doing and we pass it off
[00:18:11] And we don't parent maybe as effectively because we expect the school to do some of this stuff
[00:18:16] Uh-huh. I know there are schools that are doing a good job
[00:18:18] That's not my point and I think HR folks are starting to realize well, I we bought this software
[00:18:24] How come my people aren't up skilled?
[00:18:27] How how are they not up skilled?
[00:18:30] Did you not get the magic wand yeah with the
[00:18:33] Subscription that's a much deeper discussion, but yes, I totally get it right every single company
[00:18:38] We talked about this on the podcast almost every week
[00:18:39] They buy tech and they expect the easy button to be right there and the tech to take care of everything for them
[00:18:46] Not to mention they buy tech that's like six years in place then they come back to it later and say well
[00:18:51] It sucks. Well, you haven't done anything to it's only as smart as the input
[00:18:56] Yeah, I think that we are also seeing HR practitioners who who are uncomfortable with tech to be honest
[00:19:02] Yeah, and they're working with implementation teams on the software side who I'm not knocking them. They're lovely whatever
[00:19:08] But it never looks like the demo and then they're pissed yeah, and they're like well this I'm gonna change again
[00:19:15] I'm gonna find another one and it's like no the problem is nobody is owning this in your organization
[00:19:19] Yeah, and someone has to own it so we you know for in terms of what we're seeing
[00:19:24] We're doing a lot more that I would say over the last 18 months than we ever have before
[00:19:27] We've always done it but it's been asked for a lot more because it's a lot of lift to change or add systems
[00:19:33] Yep
[00:19:34] And it not to do what it is that it you bought it to do
[00:19:37] Green I agree also have HR practitioners that are not being taught how to HR
[00:19:42] Which is hard for me to say
[00:19:44] Because I've been in it so long yeah, we are not doing a great job of teaching people how to do HR
[00:19:49] They know how to make sure the forms are filled in they know how to make sure Jimmy knows it's a life event
[00:19:54] You're 26 and get ready to be screwed
[00:19:58] That's the admin yeah the routine
[00:20:00] To sit and have a nuanced conversation with the manager around how to have you know
[00:20:05] Progressive talent management discussions. Yeah, they don't know how to do it. That is John Baldino
[00:20:11] Everybody president at humor reso
[00:20:15] John for our listeners that want to connect with you or learn more where would you send them?
[00:20:19] Uh, you can go to humoriso.com find me on
[00:20:22] LinkedIn John Baldino HR either way I love it. We are here live it transform Chad. That is another one in the can
[00:20:29] We out
[00:20:32] Thank you for listening to what's it called a podcast the Chad the cheese
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