Fraud, French AI, and Boring Acquisitions: Joonko, Mistral, and Gem

[00:00:00] Hide your kids lock the doors you're listening to HR's most dangerous podcast Chad Sowash and Joel Cheeseman are here to punch the recruiting industry right where it hurts Complete with breaking news, brash opinion and loads of snark. Buckle up boys and girls Oh Yeah

[00:00:24] Welcome to the Chad and cheese HR's most dangerous podcast. I'm Chad Euro 2024 so wash and on today's show we're diving into AI washing drama with the SEC and Junco Zipper-cruiter is a great place to work not mistral AI scored a big round and Gembot Who let's do this?

[00:00:48] Well, welcome back kids. Yes, Joel's on a beach in Vietnam. Everybody knows that but no I'm not gonna be alone this week because you know, I wasn't hugged enough when I was a kid

[00:00:58] So I need somebody on the show with us. So I have a special guest and give me a second I've got actually pull this up so that you can see the the lovely website That's right. We have marine Wiley Clough host of it gets late early

[00:01:14] The podcast welcome to the show mo how's it? How's it going? It is going. Thank you so much for having me I'll try to do my best to stand in for the inimitable Joel. So yeah, we'll work on it

[00:01:26] Yeah, it won't be as hard as you think I promise you don't tell him that Not to mention we both have drinks you have a moment and and What you call

[00:01:39] And I was very I'm very surprised that you know because not many people know the green Portuguese wine is You're very cultured. No, you're very cultured. I'm very cultured. I like alcohol. Does that make me? And Yeah, just just just smart

[00:01:55] So anyway, um do us into is a quick a quick and dirty Twitter bio Who is mo all those people who don't know you should know you tell them why so?

[00:02:05] I have been working in the tech industry for a while and at the ripe old age of 37 was referred to as a Dino at which point I had an obvious existential crisis and I looked around I was like wait a minute This is actually pretty accurate

[00:02:19] I'm one of the oldest people at this company and it was a smaller startup But then I like did a retrospective analysis and I was like wait throughout my corporate career Even at like the likes of Bloomberg and SAP concur

[00:02:31] I was among the oldest people there and I was like dude wait people are living to like literally a hundred now and No one's saving enough for retirement So like how does this work out and I realized I had this really

[00:02:42] Intense pressure to feel like I had to make VP or something by age 40 to like Solidify my chance to have a seat at the table, especially as a woman I felt like that too So I started thinking like why the hell is no one talking about this?

[00:02:55] This seems to be a very obvious problem with no very quick solution And so I started the podcast it gets laid early to have these conversations with with experts with

[00:03:04] Thought leaders one of my favorite terms with my peers and it turns out like everybody's thinking about this too And just no one's talking about it. So I thought why not? Weren't math thing and us growing growing older for longer and you're right

[00:03:20] I mean even if females get to a VP rank It's not that they actually get the pay or the the responsibility or what have you so, you know There's still a lot of work to happen there let alone it's age but also age and gender in many cases

[00:03:36] So, you know race all those things and there is an under representation of older people especially in the tech industry But I think ageism extends across all different industries because humans are amazing

[00:03:46] Um, but it's it's something that we have just left off the table from DEIB conversations when we know it to be a factor And so I'm on a mission to ensure that we bring it into the conversation and I firmly believe just like all other forms

[00:04:00] Of diversity is going to add to the bottom line Which is frankly the only fucking reason anyone would ever give a shit about it in this capitalistic hellscape of a society

[00:04:07] So there you go. So let's go research that let's go figure it out and yeah get people to give a shit All right I'm just gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna let you keep rolling and we're just gonna go ahead and we're gonna go straight into

[00:04:19] Time shout outs and you have the first shout out. So who would you like to shout out? So I would like to shout out first of all, it's it's kind of a movement

[00:04:29] I want to shout out and it is the concept that your midlife is not the end Okay, that it is in fact the beginning which is Encapsulated in some ways that I find to be really uplifting and fantastic

[00:04:41] And in others that I find to be a little I don't know maybe So I found this this person is a is a rather large for lack of a better term influencer She's also a doctor. She's a psychologist Yeah, why don't you go go ahead and roll this?

[00:04:59] Yeah, Gucci all women are born with a magnetic energy inside of their souls You too were born with that energy when a woman radiates that energy She is memorable that magnetism is impossible to miss You know that she is the main character in her life

[00:05:19] You have that energy and that energy must be nurtured because over time with every heartbreak With every life-changing event it becomes harder to see it in yourself Okay, I gotta stop this I gotta say this is okay. It's not you get you got to give me a minute

[00:05:40] This is a white Cisgender straight dude. I don't understand Females, I just don't ask my wife. You know, she explains all the time I don't understand first and foremost what that energy is right? I don't

[00:05:58] Can you help me with that? And also can you help me with the cultish the cultish piece to this because it's all So I love that you called out that you are a white cisgender male because you are in fact that and so in

[00:06:10] General, I would be like yo, you don't get you you don't get to opine on this But in this case I am right there with you where I see that and Colt alarm bells go off at me

[00:06:22] I mean first of all when I saw it I literally was like is this satire is this like SNL because What you didn't see in that clip and I urge everybody to go watch it because you have to see it to believe it

[00:06:32] It next becomes like scarf dancing on the beach and women like caressing one another's faces Trust me, it is not please go look at it and tell me what you think afterwards

[00:06:46] But I was like what in the fresh hell is this and like I don't want to be a hater But also like what is going on with this this like event that she's throwing

[00:06:55] I had I got curious because I was like, you know, I want to be magnetic I want to I want to find my purpose and I went to the website and again, this is a legitimate doctor

[00:07:04] She's a psychologist, you know, she's a mass like a massive following and and following is a great term for it because again Super cult vibes there but you go to the website and she's got this event coming up in

[00:07:15] I think November of this year and I think it's in Arizona and it's it's like at least $1,000 or some like angel number or something to attend like I don't know if you know angel numbers

[00:07:26] Chad I I fortunately do not but I was clued in that these these dollar amounts like it's like 999 or 444 1111 97 at the end of everything here 96 You know, it's like like those online courses that are all like a weird number Anyway, I was like

[00:07:46] What is this and I can't help but feel like everybody wants to be stepping into their power Everyone wants to be feeling more confident like despite the fact that we do deal with a very ageist society

[00:07:56] And so I get like and some of the things that are said they're not wrong They're actually a hundred percent true, but it seems to me a little bit it's got like Colts MLM like predatory vibes for me because I

[00:08:13] Mean, I don't know if you're in a place where you are connecting to that and scarf dancing and facial grabbing and stuff And you're you're maybe not in your best moment In yoga had a baby. Thank you

[00:08:26] That is you know what that is actually a perfect encapsulation of what that feels like it's got MLM vibes It's got like preying on people who are at a low point who need inspiration It's got all that like personal development right and you you know

[00:08:40] Yeah, like the mysticism and like the the spirituality and and there's so much there was actually I gotta stop this before I faint This is just too much for me

[00:08:49] The point is like midlife is good and we're going into a great era and like I think that it's really awesome to see That kind of momentum and there have been more more representation of women in film and in media

[00:09:01] And I think women are collectively collectively saying like we are going to refuse to Fade back into the into the you know recesses we want to be front and center We want to step in and have the confidence in our second halves of our lives

[00:09:13] But like this vibe it just it feels off to me. Yeah main character energy I love that she used that like Gen Z specific phrase. I was dying It was like I don't think that's what they mean. But anyway, it was very

[00:09:28] Yeah, I found that to be an interesting an interesting output from all of that collective It was a thing and we're gonna we're gonna pivot back to the industry stuff right now kids because I can't take any more of this

[00:09:41] Shout out to our listeners, right? We love our listeners I received a direct message this week from a listener that shared this post from zip recruiter Here we go. We did it again

[00:09:54] Zip recruiter is thrilled to announce that we have been certified as a great place to work for another year Okay, here's a listener response quote How the fuck did zip win an award for being a great employer when they fire so many staff so regularly?

[00:10:11] What metrics are used? when judging this award and all I gotta say is we have These smartest listeners because our listeners can spot bullshit from a mile away So, you know if you're watching on YouTube

[00:10:28] I'm actually gonna flash something up here, but it says and in this is no shit kids. It says that 92 percent of employees at zip recruiter say it's a great place to work

[00:10:43] 92 percent I guess my biggest question is right now how many of these people are suffering from Stockholm syndrome? The kids at home Stockholm syndrome is basically when you fall in love with your actor

[00:10:56] But you know moving on big shout out to our listeners being able to call out bullshit on companies like zip recruiter Who literally are kicking people out the door and people again?

[00:11:07] Stockholm syndrome also isn't that shit like pay-to-play like best places to work you like nominate yourself and like pay a submission I mean that shit. Yeah, most of them are

[00:11:15] I mean, it's kind of like a glass door and getting a higher rating when literally you're gaming your people It's almost like the same kind of thing. So anyway again our listeners are smelling it

[00:11:25] It's bullshit. Nobody cares, but what people do care about and you should care about it mo is free stuff That's right. We have t-shirts an app beer from Aspen Tech Labs

[00:11:38] Whiskey from our friends at Tex kernel all this gets delivered to your front door by the way birthday a little rum from plum which everybody little likes The only way you can get registered for this kids Chad cheese calm slash free Chad cheese calm slash free then

[00:12:00] Moving quickly we have a couple of back-to-back events number one is wreck fest at Nebworth Park July 11th. Yes, that's just north of London kids And then we have wreck fest September 12th and 13th in Nashville these I don't have you been to one of these

[00:12:16] Did you go last year I did not but man do I ever want to sign up for this year let me tell you Oh, I'll make sure Jamie knows I'll make sure Jamie knows

[00:12:23] So if you're listening, you don't know kids wreck fest is all-hand staff type of meeting This is where you bring your staff to learn bond connect with peers Learn practical applications of process tech AI standardized procedures experts in the in the space are gonna be there

[00:12:41] In London and also in Nashville so go to wreck fest REC FES t.com ASAP and get those tickets. What have you heard about wreck fest? I'm interested because you haven't been yet, but what have you heard?

[00:12:56] I have heard that it is rad and it's a lot of fun and they do things differently and it's like a big outdoor Festival which is very different from your typical concert. It's a lot of fun Big outdoor festival which is very different from your typical conference

[00:13:11] And so that speaks to me because you know Hey, we're all getting together for the first time since kovat basically these days and like why not do it outside in a

[00:13:19] Fun festival vibe like I'd like Coachella with my business. Thank you. That's on man. I'm in a man Yeah, and you know where it's held in that worth is amazing big field but Nashville again This is year two in the US

[00:13:32] It's more than likely gonna double in size at about 1200 people last year looking at probably going over 2500 it was Amazing and we're pretty excited Nashville is a great town to you as is obviously And you know what else is great? The securities and Exchange Commission

[00:13:57] SEC for short kids charged the founder and former chief executive of now bankrupt AI recruitment startup AI recruitment startup Junco with defrauding investors out of at least 21 million dollars the SEC alleged illit Ros former CEO of Junco provided potential investors with

[00:14:19] Listen to this false client lists fake testimonials False company earnings false bank statements forged contracts falsified the number of job seekers using the platform and Provided fake claims of how Junco's AI worked all in the attempt to close more funding

[00:14:40] And it worked as Junco closed a series B funding in September of 2022 for 25 million dollars Ross also Faces parallel criminal charges of securities fraud and wire fraud from federal prosecutors in Manhattan each of the charges carry a

[00:15:01] Maximum sentence of 20 years in prison according to the Justice Department. This sounds like a Backstory for a character in orange is the new black. Does this have potential for? Netflix documentary maybe it a hundred percent does I mean, this is the first I'm hearing of all of this

[00:15:18] But I'm sadly not very surprised. It sounds like a tale as old as time It sounds like what just happens in the VC funding world like these people are total charlatan

[00:15:27] Just assholes like and they get the money don't fund women though fund these guys great awesome like perfect It's just like how does this continue? How how does this it blows my mind it boggles my mind?

[00:15:39] But yeah, it's sadly a tale as old as time at this point Junco also another also a diverse platform a diversity platform Number one number two the CEO a female so at the end I mean just not good all the way around. No, that's like horrifying

[00:15:59] I'm very disappointed in that there there likely will be some sort of documentary Especially because the CEOs of female because we love to tear females CEOs down. That's like our favorite. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah I mean Theranos right we've got all these all these do

[00:16:13] The entire fucking financial system, but what what what how many of them let's focus on her in cuffs, right? Yeah exactly So true. Yeah, so true such a thing. But yeah, we should we should definitely prepare ourselves to see that

[00:16:26] We don't it's gonna happen. It's gonna be maybe a dramatization. Yeah, I mean, we just don't see I mean There's we crash. Yes. We yeah we crashed super pumped Also dumb money which is about GameStop the GameStop our games stop

[00:16:40] Game stop so good. So good. Yeah, I bet that's I'm gonna check that out. So good. Anyway, yes This is in our space kid kids Junco. We've talked about him for years now and Last year around around this time last year. We actually reported on the prospect of

[00:17:00] Junco going bankrupt. It's all done now. There's a lot happening here. We're going to keep you abreast of it It's not good news sorry to be the bearer of bad news

[00:17:10] But you got to hear what's going on so that you don't do stupid shit like this moving on Okay, so yeah moving from a I to I sure the hell hope this isn't bullshit AI as Paris based Mistral AI announces

[00:17:26] 600 million euros in series B funding after only a year in operation which brings total funding to 1.1 billion and a valuation of 6 billion this new funding round will accelerate Mistral's roadmap and it continues to bring Frontier AI into everyone's hands. The company is developing various generative AI models

[00:17:49] Co-founded by Metta and Google's deep mind ex workers the firm will support foundational models and aim to compete with go figure open AI Anthropoc and others some of minstrel's investors including light speed ventures partners and recent Horowitz Nvidia love those guys Samsung ventures and

[00:18:10] Salesforce ventures open AI Gemini cloud and now Mistral not minstrel but mistral have you tried them all have you tried any of them? Tell me about your AI journey thus far. I have not tried them all I have tried mostly open AI and

[00:18:28] It's pretty impressive. I know it's one of those things It's like on my list like I really need to dive in much more than I have that's very clear But you know to me I see this news and it's like well Yeah

[00:18:38] Anything with AI in it it gets funded like to the hilt right and if you will if you don't have AI in your pitch Deck, what are you even doing? It has to be there but it is it is interesting to see that they're going after this

[00:18:50] I mean this category is pretty crowded at this point and I wonder what the Differentiation between their their tool and the others will be and you know how much of a commodity it'll be and you know ultimately Who's gonna win out right?

[00:19:02] So and if there's gonna be like an aggregator of LLM models or how how this is all gonna play out But yeah, I love me a Paris based startup though Like super super into the fact they call it le chat like that's freaking rad

[00:19:13] Yes, let's chat like sign like I want to try it everything better comes from France Well, it's funny because I always I always ask questions whenever I jump in and I asked fairly I think that are hard questions not too incredibly hard

[00:19:27] I mean, I don't know enough about physics to ask those questions So I asked what's the the main problems with the US political system and generally you'll get back some Bullshit that just kind of fluffy and whatnot

[00:19:39] But I did this with Mistral and it outlined like ten things and they were on point really they were on point Did you try the same prompt? The rest of them was a little bit more flowery, right?

[00:19:52] This one was not and I don't know if it's because it's out of Paris and they could be the euro one of the things one of the things that Parisians can do is they can rebel and this might be the rebel large language model

[00:20:05] They're also really good at shitting on Americans. Not that we don't deserve it Not that we don't deserve it But although I did look on on LinkedIn and the job openings that I saw were all based in San Francisco

[00:20:18] So that was go figure go figure so staying in the looking Valley I sector new McKinsey research shows quote as generative AI adoption accelerates survey respondents report measurable benefits and

[00:20:32] Increased mitigation of risk of inaccuracy a small group of high performers lead the way end quote. Well, no shit McKinsey it's like saying in 1910 automobile adoption accelerated and and Survey respondents report getting to work faster and not smelling like horse shit when you're arriving in the morning

[00:20:50] I mean sometimes this this research drives me crazy. I was reading through it There was some there were there were some good nuggets, but I mean it was way too long to To play this game. Yes

[00:21:00] Yes, I actually have to throw it into chat GPT and say, you know get through the horse shit Let's talk about practical applications so you said that you've played with them a little bit I have played with them a lot

[00:21:12] How are you using AI how where and how much time does it save you? So I will tell you that I am NOT using AI the way I should like I absolutely am NOT the Person who should be the poster child for this why? Well, let's see laziness

[00:21:27] ADHD if you were lazy you'd be using AI because I know I know it's like hypocritical in some ways It's just like an order of operations issue for me. Like I know I need to be using it

[00:21:39] I've used it just to kind of test, you know, what can I get out of this? Like for example, I wanted to find a certain episode of Silicon Valley HBS Silicon Valley my all-time favorite show

[00:21:48] I mean, it's just the fucking best also they like predicted so much of what happened in our world It's pretty awesome. But it's terrifying. I'm like god damn it. You guys were on something

[00:21:57] I asked it to send me the episodes that had specific reference to age and like made fun of older people and it Categorized all the episodes like boom this episode episode 10. I'm like, thank you I didn't have to watch the entire season and like get my notebook out

[00:22:11] You know, so stuff like that can be helpful and it's also you know I asked it I just was curious like write me a script for a show all about age bias on this and it did it now Was it great? No, but it is a starting point

[00:22:23] So I know that it could help someone like me with organizational tasks and it's really it's just a matter of me not Actually sitting down and taking the time to do it and it's my own fault. Like I'm an idiot

[00:22:32] I should be using this stuff and I know that I'm setting myself back by not so I mean even you Chad You've been like yo mo why aren't you using AI for your podcast? I'm like, you're right. You're right

[00:22:40] You're right. You're right. Always right. That's dead. Thank you. I'm sorry carry on I stopped you at the right point Seriously, I so I use chat GPT for titles and Dolly for cover our ideas

[00:22:54] Riverside creates transcripts. I mean, this is our this the platform that we're using right now to actually record on I use transcripts then that uses the transcripts to create overviews takeaways and short video clips I use opus clips for more video clips Gemini daily for Google Assistant and

[00:23:13] Chat GPT for executive summary. So I have to say that yeah, you're doing it Is like let's say for instance for for Riverside the platforms who are implementing AI into their system like Riverside are what we should be using and here's what I mean

[00:23:27] When we record this podcast and create an enormous amount of content through the text in the transcript Then audio then video the platform can then Consume all of that content and then split it out into suggested video clips

[00:23:44] Podcast titles audio clips still captures and takeaways. So all the suggested content Yeah, all the suggested content comes together and it literally consumes it and then it spits it out It's not all great, but it is Better than than most stuff. Oh, yeah

[00:24:02] There I've done the like magic clips things and I'm like that did not Encapsulate any sort of point and that was super random. Why did you pick that? It's still cool that it exists and it's gonna get better and better use opus

[00:24:13] I use opus because of that and I'm hoping I'm hoping that let's say for instance A Riverside buys an opus and then you know that happens and they just get better better Tech inside of it

[00:24:23] But I mean the way that I can see something like this working is let's say for instance like a sales copilot pilot and advisor AI listens to calls transcribes creates a summary of the call provides advice

[00:24:35] That's amazing and then AI follow-ups with the prospect or client to provide additional information and or schedule follow-ups right this to me is fucking magic and We're gonna talk about in the next segment how we're going to be doing this hopefully in recruiting but until then

[00:24:57] Before before we get out of there just give me your kind of like overall of you were talking about who's going to win Do you really think there's going to be an AI winner or do you just think there's going to be a small group?

[00:25:09] Who literally commands the space? I'm not very good at predicting the future But what I can tell you is I mean you think about like the the search functionality even just like Google killed that right?

[00:25:19] So there were all these different people vying for search functionality and then Google became the just like me So I could see that happening Potentially I think you know there has been such incredible adoption as you pointed out like the whole

[00:25:33] Henry Ford like car adoption thing too right in the McKinsey report I get it but like there has been just this massive growth in the AI industry and people are testing it out And some people are testing it out more than others Chad versus me

[00:25:46] However, I do use it I realize now because I have an otter that transcribes all of my meetings and whatnot It helps me as someone who has ADHD and found out at age 36

[00:25:55] It's really helpful because then I can like really zone in to the conversation and know that I'm not gonna miss anything Like it's gonna tell me what to do next et cetera

[00:26:02] But I think that it could very plausibly become kind of one winner out of all this and you know It's just like an arms race hurtling through space towards something That's you know, but not necessarily known at the outcome that potentially possible

[00:26:17] Which is a little scary when we're talking about like for-profit companies who don't actually give a shit about ethics or baked-in-biased Or anything because they all just make money so it's scary

[00:26:25] I mean like when the platforms start saying we won't even charge you because we want your fucking data so much that Sends off alarm balls for me Like I'm like, holy shit

[00:26:34] But I do try to remain as optimistic as possible as someone who considers herself a bit of a realist slash verging on pessimism Great point about Google. It's a long story short great point about Google

[00:26:45] I mean you were 100% right they own the fucking search market. It's all there is to it. I mean Bing No, yeah, no And I think that's what scares the shit out of Google is they were leapfrogged by open AI in that in that 97 95 percent

[00:27:00] Ownership of search in the market. That's that in itself could I mean next thing, you know could go away I mean that that that's a very great point. That's a great point So we have you on the show mile cuz you're smart. Yeah, what can I say?

[00:27:13] I know a couple things experience matters my old age Let's talk about now some some tech in recruiting right after the break You're gonna pour ourselves a little bit more green wine a little bit more momosa and we'll we'll be right back All right, Mo

[00:27:32] Get ready. So we're gonna So it's running. Oh, yeah, you're good. That's good. That's good show right there. Look at that. Good poor poor poor So we're going to start the conversation about AI with a smart but rather boring acquisition

[00:27:46] You cool with that Mo? I'm in. Okay. Okay. So the following No, the following is from Steve Bartle co-founder and CEO over at gem quote today we Welcome interview planner to gem we acquired interview planners

[00:28:04] Intelligent scheduling automation to help teams fast-track hiring and deliver exceptional candidate experiences with this new edition We bring powerful scheduling automation to the rest of gems powered Platform and quote big startup not so big acquisition. What do you think Mo?

[00:28:22] I mean my initial thought was like do we really need this like like don't we have scheduling tools like I Won't say that I've used gems. So let's throw that out

[00:28:33] Reality, but it's it's it's the ever-present like build versus buy right? Do you build it? Do you buy it? Partner it's just that always that question I will say when I went through the rest of their Beautifully worded our article where they showed all these benefits and features

[00:28:47] I thought man, yeah that actually sounds pretty good because let me tell you using an ATS is a shitty Situation like it's a horrible experience interviewing at tech companies is abysmal and these panel interviews It says allegedly that it's gonna make everything easy to panel interview schedule

[00:29:03] Obviously has a lot of complexity baked into it and my initial thought was like cool that it's gonna be easier But does that mean I'm gonna have to do more interviews because I'm out on that

[00:29:12] If it's so simple that you just hit a button and then they're gonna be like, oh we're gonna interview you with like 17,000 people at this company and make you take the you know process ten times longer like I'm out

[00:29:22] But it looked the functionality look good. I gotta say it looked pretty nice and I was like, you know, hey tech stack You know pulling it together and diminishing the number of different technical applications that you have to work in. Yeah, sure

[00:29:36] I like that. That's that's nice. It's easier As a partnerships person as my background in business development I'm like I love the whole plug into different API's and bring the best of breed and whatnot

[00:29:48] But perhaps that's what they think they've done by acquiring them. So yeah, well, I mean so interview scheduling not a big problem these days It's the interview themselves, right? It's being able to conduct those whether you have a third party doing them

[00:30:01] You have you know video or audio doing them or whatever you might have doing but interview scheduling seems to be the place Everyone starts with process automation. Why because scheduling is time-consuming. It's boring and it's a true pain in the ass

[00:30:15] So it's one of the most logical places to start plus it's not just making it easier for the candidate Easier process for the recruiter hiring manager and everybody involved so I would have to imagine this very

[00:30:29] Narrow point solution. Let's call it a micro point solution was a bargain basement aqua hire type of Acquisition in September of 2021 after receiving a hundred million dollars in funding CEO Steve Bartle once again said quote It's time to accelerate and quote and it's 2022

[00:30:48] So Jim has added an ATS AI process automation. They're partnering with point solutions like happy dance to deliver Dynamic career side experiences and we're seeing very basic use of AI in gem thus far

[00:31:04] So we just talked about practical application for the use of AI mainly around use cases on on Riverside So tell me your thought on how do we how do we use AI?

[00:31:14] Especially in systems like gem knowing the kind of data that they have available. How do we use those systems to really? Advance the use of AI man the use of AI around these systems I would I mean hopefully there's a way to Pull feedback from these interview loops

[00:31:32] I would think like from different managers to to get sort of I mean, I would say here's one thing Actually applaud Amazon for is they have a hiring process that while arduous and miserable as an applicant actually seeks to reduce the bias in

[00:31:46] Internal candidates would face or excuse me external candidates would face with all the different people looking at them So perhaps there'd be a way to like pull in the information that was input by different

[00:31:57] Managers and different people who are interviewing candidates and I don't know assimilate that data and pull some nuggets out or something But I mean, I'm trying to think of how AI could also influence the that sort of a tech piece but

[00:32:12] That's the thing that comes to mind for me is I'm thinking about the biases that we all have when we look at different candidates and maybe there's also a way to Standardize some of the interview process because the other thing I've seen in companies is holy shit

[00:32:26] like we don't teach people how to interview others and it's just like It's like Really ridiculous the the difference between the experiences of interviewing with person a versus person B at a company and how much of it?

[00:32:39] Just goes back to like gut sense or who you know or who someone just like happened to like its affinity bias stuff So I think that there is an opportunity for AI to come help democratize the hiring process a bit

[00:32:52] Potentially, it also has the chance to do really shitty things Like for example, there was a company called I tutor group out of out of China that was summarily rejecting Yeah

[00:33:02] the EEOC nailed them because they were rejecting candidates who applied to the company who were 55 if they were female and 60 if they were men because again men are allowed to age more than women actually in our shitty So we die earlier our life expectancy

[00:33:18] So it was wild but so there are ways that ATS systems can be programmed for for you know Malevolence as well but I think that there is also opportunity if you just get it in the right hands for it to Level the playing field make things better

[00:33:31] It's all about who whether it gets in the hands of bad actors or not, right? And whether we have the appropriate sort of regulatory arms to go Yeah I think first and foremost your you hit the nail on the head with regard to standardization and then also

[00:33:43] Like you have high volume versus middle management versus like executive, right? That's all entirely different. Yeah and Interviewing is the hard part So if you're in high volume and you have literally four knockout questions, if you do you have a heartbeat? You know, can you get to work?

[00:34:00] I mean those types of things right and then right at the end of it if you hit all those and You pass it you go directly to an interview. That's all there is to it, right?

[00:34:10] You go directly to a fucking interview. There's that's the cheat code right for that level You can do that at middle management level as well. There's there's no question There's better ways of doing it but I'm expecting core talent platforms

[00:34:23] They applicant tracking systems to start recording more information much like I was talking about the sales example Then consuming that information and spitting out messages Rescheduling in fielding basic Q&A from job seekers hiring managers and recruiters. So anyone with access It could be amazing anybody with access

[00:34:40] It could honestly anybody should be able to go into the system ask for a situation report on the specific Requisition or candidate a VP should be able to go ask the system to pull together a report on how many?

[00:34:53] Interviews are rescheduled by managers and then ranks them best or worst, right? So I mean, yeah, there's so many different ways to apply this I'm really excited to continue to see boring acquisitions fit a need but we've got to get to the next step in

[00:35:10] the talent industry around advancing Process methodology and AI Joel is always talking about Facebook's year of efficiency. We're in fucking HR Okay, we're not following Facebook. Give me a goddamn break, but we need to I mean we need to not in the in the fact

[00:35:26] That we need to bloat and then throw, you know 20,000 people away. We need to be more efficient Yeah, and that could absolutely help get you there for sure

[00:35:34] I think there's some really great applications you just threw out there that could could actually democratize the playing field a bit It's what we're trying to do Big surprise coming from the AP by the way see CEO pay it's out of whack

[00:35:47] Did you know that the median pay package for CEOs for S&P 500 companies rose? 6216 point three million dollars up twelve point six percent according to data Analyzed from the AP meanwhile wages and benefits netted from private sector workers rose four point one percent through

[00:36:10] 2023 that's right CEOs get a twelve point six bump and the people actually doing the work four point one Percent bump so ding ding for some perspective back in 2021 EP I published a report which showed that since

[00:36:26] 1978 that's right. We have to extract this out so we can understand the actual trends kids since 1978 CEO pay has risen over 1300 percent and today that's closer to 1500 percent while normal American non-exec workers only saw a 13.5 percent raise from a

[00:36:48] 1978 till fucking today, but hold on kids the government is here to help a new proposed bill I know I have to laugh when I say that to a government bill proposed bill in January of this year would mean that under the tax

[00:37:03] Excessive CEO pay act tax penalties would begin at point five percent points percentage points For companies that pay their top executives between 50 and 100 times more than their typical workers companies that pay top executives over 500 times more than

[00:37:22] Typical workers they're gonna get hit with a five percentage points, and we just touch hell I just talked about two companies last week that does do that Walmart and fucking American Airlines

[00:37:32] anyway all private and publicly held US corporations with average annual sales for the three preceding years of At least a hundred million would be subject to this tax the bill would raise an estimated 150 billion dollars over ten years that could be used to support working families and reduce

[00:37:55] Inequality is this the right way to go at this problem mo I mean we have to do something clearly companies aren't doing any of this work on themselves They're just continuing to you know

[00:38:08] What blew my mind about that article too was that there is an active mention of? Boards being concerned that if they don't keep on inflating the pay of their executives that they will walk and I'm like well Why the fuck they why don't they do that for employees?

[00:38:20] We're the ones making the money we're the ones doing the work it was like that Spotify CEO He was like we let we let 1500 people go and like oh my god It like had an impact on our operations like hello

[00:38:31] It's just I think we've reached a level of corporate greed in this country. That is just like unconscionable I mean you have Boeing out there just stuffing the pockets of the shareholders at the risk of the flying public and Actually in some cases like maybe killing whistleblowers

[00:38:47] I don't know not to be a conspiracy theorist, but like what the fuck yes, and then you have like I mean honestly it looks So I was like guys can you make it like more plausibly deniable that you didn't do this looks like Putin's Russia exactly

[00:38:59] That is literally what I said. I'm like what happened and so that happened I mean you had like gosh there was the the surge pricing incident for hamburgers and Wendy's there was the McDonald's or no it wasn't McDonald's it was the Kellogg CEO who said hey guys

[00:39:15] Why don't you just eat cereal for breakfast if you're struggling Has your family eaten cereal recently Kellogg CEO, it's just disgusting and despicable so we got to do something They're not gonna do this themselves. They're in it the self-dealing. They're interested in fattening their pockets

[00:39:30] I am grossed out by it I think Americans have had enough of it And so I think that the fact that there's regulation that's being proposed is is indicative of that And so it's reached like a bit of a fever pitch people just they're done in tech

[00:39:43] So many of us have been laid off and we were the ones who made the profits for these companies happen And it used to be we're laying people off because of the economic environment then we're doing well getting record profits

[00:39:52] Oh, we're still laying you off. It's like there's no loyalty. There's no career trajectory. There's no longevity And I think people are just pissed so yeah, I'm I'm for it I would love to know exactly what they think they're going to do with those funds

[00:40:05] You know in general with with the funds they collect I'd love to see the plan for that and I hope it's a good one But yeah, hell yeah, I'm into it. I feel I feel like it's a good call

[00:40:14] Yeah, I gotta say one thing. I want to see something happen, but You done messed up a Ron so the problem with Democrats and I'm I actually grew up probably about 40 years of my life Don't hold this against me as a Republican and I am I am

[00:40:32] And I am totally not that today but the problem with Democrats is that most of them play small ball 150 billion in ten years even even Attacks for those companies when you're talking about Walmart. That's a really good all might buy themselves make

[00:40:48] 158 billion dollars a year in profit. That's fucking bull. That's bullshit. Wow, so it's chump change It's just performant just gonna shit on this I'm gonna have a proposal I've been thinking about this I've been listening to podcasts. I've been playing the whole economics thing game

[00:41:03] I could be a hundred percent wrong first and foremost you tie CEO compensation directly to the base number for example A CEO cannot receive compensation over 30 times that of their lowest paid worker in that scenario

[00:41:17] The CEO would need to raise the lower paid workers wages to receive an incentive themselves if the CEOs bonus then exceeds That's of the base number in this case 30 30 times They and the company would be fined at a 6% of overall

[00:41:34] Global revenue the fine has to be stringent enough to ensure compliance This would give companies a reason to rein in the out-of-control CEO comp raise workers wages and have a stiff enough fine that would make any board member wake up in night sweats

[00:41:51] That's what Jeff Bezos wants his employees to do wake up with their sheets drenched in sweat So sure, let's do that. Let's get a four fucking super yacht, right? It's a yacht with another yacht

[00:42:03] It's it's like yeah, it's like five on top of one another but that's the thing to me The egos are so big Why don't we I don't understand how someone like that wouldn't want to just go and and some people will probably hate me

[00:42:15] For this conversation, but they got why don't you just go save the world then you're the man Right, like if you can just go like eradicate poverty or like help people from facing homelessness or stop people from starving

[00:42:26] Like you are the man like I will sing your praises all day everyone on planet Earthwood So like stop building some stupid dick-shaped spaceship and do that like Jesus well, I can't do any better than that dick shaped spaceship penis rocket. That's what we call it penis rocket

[00:42:44] All right, well we are back we're gonna finish up with guess what? We're gonna finish up with some some mo right because there's there's no such thing as less. There's only mo here we go I'm here for all the pints today

[00:42:59] So you had you had a tick-tock that I Really enjoyed and we actually changed this entire topic because I saw this tick-tock. I'm like fuck this We've got to talk about this

[00:43:09] So we're gonna so if you're watching on YouTube here it comes if not, you'll you'll hear the audio here Here we go. Let's run put out an age ban and people are pretty pissed Take a look. You cannot eat here if you are under 30 years old

[00:43:23] So this restaurant in st Louis decided they wanted to keep the vibes grown and sexy and so they decided they could have nobody under the age of 30 And they're in order to achieve that and so the owners are getting a lot of heat on social media and otherwise

[00:43:35] But their answer to this is like sorry This is what we need to do in order to keep the vibes we want and we don't want any sort of Routiness that comes with like younger people eating at our restaurant now

[00:43:44] Some people are rightly pointing out that your age does not dictate your behavior But other people are like dude, no, this is great Like we really want to just have a chill time and we don't want the drama that quote younger people bring right?

[00:43:53] So I'm curious like do you guys think this is offensive or do you think this is something that you would like? Are you over 35? Do you want to eat with only people who are over 35? Like I really want to know your thoughts

[00:44:02] Oh, well, you're gonna get my thoughts whether you like him or not. Okay, so First and foremost I couldn't get into a bar until I was 21 Even though I was in the military and shot at when I was 18 years old and I still couldn't get into

[00:44:16] When I was 18 or so I kind of have that and that's it. That's a personal thing that I've got to deal with I agree with you wholeheartedly Resorts that are adults only some are couples only and then there are others that are just family-friendly, right?

[00:44:31] So just as long I believe just as long as they aren't discriminating on race gender sexual orientation or religion I'm not seeing a problem. But again, I don't know. I need to say this again

[00:44:42] I'm a white cisgendered straight guy. So what the fuck am I missing here? Help me out. I mean, yes It is an ageist policy and obviously on its face I also understand some people are like well hell yeah

[00:44:54] I don't want any kids here like get them out of here and and I'm thinking more like literal children than people in their 20s But I think that there are other ways than expressly calling out like we don't want your kind if you're under 30 or 30

[00:45:06] For guys or no, excuse me 30 for women and 35 for guys which made me laugh. Yeah Like Different sliding scale based on your gender So there is gender discrimination in there too

[00:45:15] But I was like there were other ways to just attract the demographic that you are hoping to have at your restaurant then like overtly Saying thou shalt not come right?

[00:45:24] So you can have the vibe that maybe wouldn't appeal to someone who you would stereotype as like younger than 30 Right or 35 as a dude. So I think that there are ways of doing it

[00:45:33] I think you know, there's no such thing as bad press and this could easily have been a PR ploy for them To get more people in the door the comments on my on my post are really hilarious Some of them were like hell yeah

[00:45:43] I get those kids off planes too or and then other people were like dude the worst behaved people are the boomer Karens at these restaurants like what are they even talking about?

[00:45:51] So there's just a lot of stereotyping going on and this is like classic media shit because they love to pit Generation against generation we've been doing it like since the beginning of time and it's clickbait coverage

[00:46:04] Like I know what's going on here and I think that restaurant probably was like we're gonna get some we're gonna get some free press Out of this. We're gonna get some like hate we're gonna get a lot of love and Yeah, I find it more than anything

[00:46:16] amusing honestly and technically it's legal for companies to do something like this because it's within their own right? It's not an employment situation. They're not saying we won't hire people under age 30 although however That would be federally legal to say because the protection only is for those over 40

[00:46:34] So you can actually actively discriminate against younger people at the federal level in some states and different cities. That's illegal But anyway, that's that's kind of a side note, but yeah, I mean would I do it no but like I

[00:46:48] They're technically allowed to and it is getting the most shitload of press some love some hate Which they might love not everybody loves the Chad and cheese podcast But it doesn't matter but more of them love the Chad and cheese podcast

[00:47:01] Why because Moe's been on it so moe if somebody wants to find out more about you maybe listen to the podcast or something Like that, where would you send them? I would send them to either my website at it gets late early calm or on Apple podcasts

[00:47:13] It's just type in it gets late early. You will find me. I'm also on the socials I'm Maureen W. Clough that clou On both Instagram and on tick tock. Yes, I am on tick tock

[00:47:27] I am 41 and I am on tick tock it is people up there exist on tick tock. Yeah. Yeah exactly Chad I wasn't gonna call you out. But yeah, you're on me in years. I'm on tick tock I don't give a fuck. Where's the bar? Moe we out

[00:47:45] Thank you for listening to what's it called a podcast The Chad the cheese Brilliant, they talk about recruiting they talk about technology But most of all they talk about nothing just a lot of shoutouts of people

[00:48:01] You don't even know and yet you're listening. It's incredible and not one word about cheese But one cheddar blue nacho pepper jack Swiss So many cheeses and not one word So weird any who we should have subscribed today on iTunes

[00:48:22] Spotify Google Play or whatever you listen to your podcasts that way you won't miss an episode And why you're at it visit? www.chadcheese.com Just don't expect to find any recipes for grilled cheese is so weird we out