Chasing Jasper Spanjaart

[00:00:00] Hey Listener, Welcome to Talent Chasing where we bring real world stories from the fields,

[00:00:21] courts and pitches of Major League Sports and Offices of Corporate Talent.

[00:00:26] It's our job to amplify those hidden stories in finding, retaining and motivating the best

[00:00:32] talent in the world because we all know no team exists anywhere without great talent.

[00:00:38] My name is Brian Johnson, I'm a former Major League Baseball player and scout.

[00:00:42] I'm Jasper Spanjot, I'm a journalist and filmmaker.

[00:00:45] And I'm Chad So-Osh, Recruitment Industry Veteran.

[00:00:48] Welcome to Episode Number 2, Chasing Jasper.

[00:00:54] In the first episode we delved into my story, which was a kid with a dream that persevered,

[00:01:00] had successes, had some failures, but was touched by several different people and acts of kindness

[00:01:05] along the way.

[00:01:06] Then that dream became a reality.

[00:01:09] Now it's time to delve into the story of the guy who brought all of us together for

[00:01:13] this podcast.

[00:01:14] We thought we'd do an introductory episode for each of us so you get to know all

[00:01:21] of us at least right?

[00:01:23] So who's Jasper?

[00:01:24] That's the question.

[00:01:25] Who is Jasper?

[00:01:26] So where did all of this start Jasper?

[00:01:29] And I don't mean about mom and dad.

[00:01:31] We don't need to hear the conception story, okay?

[00:01:34] Let's go beyond that.

[00:01:37] So where did this start?

[00:01:39] Where were you born, grew up, sports, that kind of stuff.

[00:01:43] Give us a little background about you.

[00:01:45] Cool, that's about six questions there, Chad.

[00:01:47] I always do that.

[00:01:48] I was born in 1995, so that makes me, it was my birthday last week.

[00:01:53] So yeah, 29 now.

[00:01:55] Oh wow.

[00:01:56] Yeah, I was born in the south of Holland, a small village we moved to, a slightly bigger

[00:02:01] city because my dad got a job there.

[00:02:04] Interestingly, you know, if my dad's from the middle of Holland, my mom's from the

[00:02:07] south, they sort of met in the middle.

[00:02:11] Well my dad got a job as an English teacher and then pretty much went on from there,

[00:02:15] grew up in a really nice household.

[00:02:18] And that was always one of the smart kids in school.

[00:02:19] Yeah, I mean, stuff to say exactly, to give you full background story on it.

[00:02:25] So you are a nerd, so we can ask the nerd.

[00:02:27] I mean, yeah, let's just put that right on the table.

[00:02:31] Yeah, I'm a bit of a nerd.

[00:02:32] I don't shy away from that.

[00:02:34] But Holland, okay, it's always, there are so many different terminologies like the

[00:02:39] Doc region in Europe and Stude Dome Americans are like, what the hell are they talking

[00:02:44] about?

[00:02:45] Holland versus the Netherlands.

[00:02:48] What is, are they the same?

[00:02:49] Are they exactly the same?

[00:02:50] What's the difference?

[00:02:51] I mean, they're used interchangeably, right?

[00:02:53] The Holland is actually, so we've got South Holland, which is a province here as well.

[00:02:57] So, but Holland has always been around.

[00:02:59] I use them interchangeably.

[00:03:00] I don't really care.

[00:03:01] Some people get sort of fussed up about it because they're like, it's not Holland,

[00:03:04] it's the Netherlands.

[00:03:05] And I'm like, why should I care one bit what it's called?

[00:03:08] Oh yeah.

[00:03:09] Yeah, but I mean, it's a flat country in French.

[00:03:11] It's called the pay bar.

[00:03:12] So it means a flat country.

[00:03:15] It's just flat everywhere.

[00:03:16] It's everywhere you look.

[00:03:17] Is that why everybody cycles everywhere?

[00:03:18] Yeah, well, it makes it slightly easier than some Italian mountains for sure.

[00:03:22] Yeah?

[00:03:23] Yeah, I mean, it's why we cycle.

[00:03:25] It's why we cycle through the rain, through the cold, through the winds.

[00:03:28] We don't care.

[00:03:29] We'll get on our bike.

[00:03:30] It's a mentality, but it's part of the country's DNA for sure.

[00:03:33] Well, we'll dig a little bit more into you in a minute, but we, Brian just got

[00:03:36] back from Kenya.

[00:03:38] And I want to touch on this.

[00:03:40] What were you doing in Kenya, Brian?

[00:03:43] So we went to Nairobi, Kenya in the eastern part of the country.

[00:03:47] And it was a medical mission strip.

[00:03:49] My wife is a physician.

[00:03:51] We had another physician on our team.

[00:03:54] We had an EMT.

[00:03:56] We had two nurses.

[00:03:57] We had a seamstress and even a scientist.

[00:04:00] So we went with a person who had been there four times.

[00:04:04] So the idea was to build a relationship with one region, with one area, with

[00:04:09] two companies in surrounding areas.

[00:04:12] So instead of doing the touristy thing, my dropping in, doing Safari and then taking

[00:04:15] off, it's a sustained effort to build relationships and really try to help folks there with needs

[00:04:21] that they may have.

[00:04:22] How did you get involved in doing that?

[00:04:25] So my wife knew the woman, organized the trips for four years.

[00:04:29] By word of mouth, my wife and Pam is the woman that organized this.

[00:04:34] So they got to talking, putting something together.

[00:04:37] My wife was like, hey, can my husband come?

[00:04:42] And she was like, it's all women.

[00:04:44] It's seven women, so there's not really a role for him.

[00:04:47] But over time, they developed to, hey, you can fit here.

[00:04:50] Hey, what if he did that?

[00:04:51] Hey, he could do this.

[00:04:52] He could do that.

[00:04:53] So I did six different roles.

[00:04:54] Like your college career.

[00:04:56] You played every position.

[00:04:57] Hey, there we go.

[00:04:58] There's the connection.

[00:04:59] Plug and play.

[00:05:00] Yeah.

[00:05:01] The ultimate utility, man.

[00:05:03] That's right.

[00:05:04] Master of none and decent at one or two.

[00:05:10] Yeah.

[00:05:12] Brian's trying to save the world, right?

[00:05:14] I'm in Vegas for a week and then I go to Amsterdam.

[00:05:18] Yeah.

[00:05:19] What did you do, Chad?

[00:05:20] Yeah.

[00:05:21] We don't have to go through what I did, okay?

[00:05:23] Just saying.

[00:05:24] I was in Vegas and in Amsterdam.

[00:05:27] We did have dinner though, Jasper.

[00:05:28] So it was good to meet Renee who actually if you're looking at talent chasing on any

[00:05:35] of the platforms out there, the awesome cover art was done by Renee.

[00:05:39] So she's.

[00:05:40] Yeah.

[00:05:41] I mean, had you all met before?

[00:05:43] Not Renee.

[00:05:44] In person.

[00:05:45] No, not Renee.

[00:05:46] Jasper and I met about what about a year and a half or so ago, face to face in Belgium.

[00:05:52] See, I was kind of left out of that meeting, so I won't take it personally.

[00:05:56] You were saving the world.

[00:05:57] I'll wait patiently for my invitation for the next one.

[00:06:00] It didn't have the heart to ask you to leave saving the world to go to Vegas

[00:06:05] and then go to Amsterdam.

[00:06:07] Just did.

[00:06:08] I didn't have it in my heart.

[00:06:09] Yeah, forget about Africa.

[00:06:11] Yeah, I'm so much above you all.

[00:06:13] I'll look down my nose on you and say, oh.

[00:06:16] Well, that being said, let's get back to Jasper.

[00:06:19] Jasper.

[00:06:20] So grew up, grew up.

[00:06:22] We kind of have an idea of what Holland is now.

[00:06:24] Nobody cares.

[00:06:25] I care and I care that the French took time out to make sure everybody knew there

[00:06:32] was flat.

[00:06:33] Yeah, true.

[00:06:34] Yeah.

[00:06:35] It's just the French people, right?

[00:06:36] Always thinking they're better than us.

[00:06:37] Yeah.

[00:06:38] I mean, who takes time to think of that?

[00:06:40] And the nickname's something very well.

[00:06:41] Only the French.

[00:06:42] Only the French.

[00:06:43] Right.

[00:06:44] So keep at it.

[00:06:45] Born, raised.

[00:06:46] Yep.

[00:06:47] When you got into sports, you were fairly early, right?

[00:06:50] Yeah.

[00:06:51] When you got into sports.

[00:06:52] Yeah, I must have been like, my parents usually make the joke.

[00:06:56] I was sort of born with a ball at my feet, well, literally, because that's one

[00:06:59] of the first presents I ever got from my grandparents.

[00:07:01] So I got a ball.

[00:07:03] So they decided I was going to be a footballer.

[00:07:06] But I just loved football at a very early age.

[00:07:08] I absolutely adored it.

[00:07:09] Like, I could just spend...

[00:07:11] If you just gave me a ball and you gave me a grass pitch to play on, I would be

[00:07:15] satisfied for the rest of the day.

[00:07:16] I would try to mimic what I saw growing up.

[00:07:21] I loved our holidays to England.

[00:07:23] So my dad was actually an English teacher.

[00:07:25] So that meant we'd go to England about four or five times a year.

[00:07:29] So every holiday, every opportunity we had, they would ask us, like, where do you

[00:07:32] want to go?

[00:07:33] And we always answered the same thing.

[00:07:35] We want to go to England.

[00:07:36] And we went camping there, usually, which meant, like, big fields.

[00:07:40] So again, give me a big field, give me a ball and I'll be happy.

[00:07:43] So that was usually the case.

[00:07:44] My...

[00:07:45] As soon as we got to a place in the UK, my mum and dad would set up the tent

[00:07:49] and I was just like, oh, there's a football there.

[00:07:52] You just run off and play your football.

[00:07:54] So yeah, that was...

[00:07:55] That's the lucky memories I have of my childhood just running around on all

[00:07:59] these different fields around Europe, just playing football.

[00:08:02] I still love the game today.

[00:08:04] I stopped playing about 16, 15, 16, but I played organised sports football for

[00:08:10] a very long time.

[00:08:12] I think I started around five or six years old and played for about 10 years.

[00:08:15] So yeah, I still love the game today.

[00:08:18] Fortunately, don't play anymore.

[00:08:19] But yeah, football is a part of it.

[00:08:22] Yeah, favourite team.

[00:08:23] I loved English football growing up.

[00:08:25] So Newcastle United was my biggest team.

[00:08:28] But people can't imagine that now.

[00:08:31] Like the youth, they can just turn on a TV on their laptop and they can watch

[00:08:34] your game for the first years of following my favourite teams.

[00:08:37] I had to follow BBC Live updates where you got...

[00:08:41] It was just text.

[00:08:42] There was nothing there and I would stay up late at night in Newcastle

[00:08:45] to watch Match of the Day on the BBC.

[00:08:48] That was my youth.

[00:08:49] I wasn't able to watch those games live.

[00:08:51] You had to follow just by the information you were getting.

[00:08:53] But luckily now I'm able to put on a TV and can watch any time,

[00:08:58] anywhere I want.

[00:08:59] I became quite fond of German football in the past few years.

[00:09:02] So I always sort of pivot towards Newcastle in the Premier League

[00:09:06] and FC Heidenheim in the Bundesliga.

[00:09:08] Those are probably my two favourite teams.

[00:09:11] Very cool.

[00:09:12] If anyone's to look at your bio, you see a combination of sports,

[00:09:15] journalism and movie making.

[00:09:17] True.

[00:09:18] I was kind of curious and you kind of mentioned a little bit about

[00:09:20] your dad being in the academic field.

[00:09:23] Where did all those dreams come about?

[00:09:26] When did you start thinking about being a writer?

[00:09:28] Was it along the time that you were on the pitch at the same time?

[00:09:31] Did it come later, before or after?

[00:09:33] And then even to that, making movies.

[00:09:36] Where did that come into play?

[00:09:37] Right.

[00:09:39] I need to credit my dad again because he was also a photographer.

[00:09:43] So there were always cameras lying around my house.

[00:09:45] So every holiday went to...

[00:09:47] I also got a ball to play football and I got a camera

[00:09:50] just to run around with and like the cheapest one obviously

[00:09:53] because I would break it.

[00:09:54] Just to take pictures of everything.

[00:09:56] So I loved photography at a really early age.

[00:09:58] Like I've got plenty of pictures that my dad took of me just

[00:10:01] running around taking photos of something.

[00:10:03] And storytelling wise, I loved football.

[00:10:06] I knew I wasn't going to be quite good enough.

[00:10:08] It was also quite clear to me that I didn't love some of the...

[00:10:12] Well, I'm quite a competitive person

[00:10:14] but some of the competitive aspects of it.

[00:10:16] I struggled with coaches in my youth that were just...

[00:10:20] Well, I usually tell the story of a game

[00:10:22] that we were three-nil up at halftime.

[00:10:24] And I'd made one really bad pass

[00:10:26] which nearly resulted in a goal for the opposition team.

[00:10:29] And the coach came in at halftime

[00:10:32] and just completely blasted me in front of everyone.

[00:10:35] And I was like, well, actually I made two assists.

[00:10:37] I'm having quite a good game.

[00:10:38] Yeah, okay, sorry.

[00:10:40] My bad on the bad pass.

[00:10:41] But then you get into the whole argument.

[00:10:43] Well, you can't speak back to your coach

[00:10:45] and you can't...

[00:10:46] And I was always a guy that wasn't going to speak up

[00:10:48] if I saw some type of injustice.

[00:10:50] And I would also speak up for teammates

[00:10:52] that got the same treatment.

[00:10:53] But I got to a certain point where I got really fed up with that.

[00:10:56] But as far as storytelling,

[00:10:58] I've always been fascinated by stories,

[00:11:01] just character development in all types of genres.

[00:11:05] Sports has become sort of my second nature.

[00:11:08] So I feel like sports is just such a great platform

[00:11:11] to tell stories because the highs and the lows

[00:11:13] are measured like nowhere else, right?

[00:11:15] It's like nowhere else in the world.

[00:11:17] So yeah, I mean, I love stories and I love sports.

[00:11:20] So the two sort of naturally came together when I was,

[00:11:24] well, looking for what on earth...

[00:11:27] What it was on earth that I wanted to do for a living.

[00:11:30] So I went into a sort of business degree to start with.

[00:11:35] And funnily enough, my mum knew it was the wrong degree for me.

[00:11:39] But she let me make my mistake anyway,

[00:11:41] which I'm grateful for in the end

[00:11:43] because I feel like as a kid,

[00:11:44] you can try and, well,

[00:11:47] prevent your kids from making mistakes.

[00:11:49] But I'm really fortunate in the sense that I have parents

[00:11:51] who support me fully in whatever I decided I wanted to do.

[00:11:55] So when I decided I wanted to do that on the end of a sort of...

[00:12:00] There's a series called The Apprentice in the UK.

[00:12:02] I don't like the US version so much, wonder why.

[00:12:06] But in the UK, so I just binged that for an entire summer.

[00:12:10] And I came to the conclusion,

[00:12:12] I want to be an entrepreneur, I want to start a business myself.

[00:12:15] Turns out I didn't quite want to do that.

[00:12:16] I do feel like I'm a bit of an entrepreneur now,

[00:12:19] but it's crazy, it's a lot of work.

[00:12:22] So make that mistake first,

[00:12:24] then sort computers for about a year

[00:12:27] because I had 18, 90 and needed something to do.

[00:12:30] And then came back to what I probably was gonna do anyway.

[00:12:33] Yes, study journalism.

[00:12:35] I feel like that was always gonna probably be where I ended up.

[00:12:38] I just took a slightly different route to get there.

[00:12:41] My brother had also studied journalism.

[00:12:43] He'd worked in motoring journalism for a few years.

[00:12:47] So I had a great example there.

[00:12:49] I knew what the job was and yeah, that was a study

[00:12:53] I felt far more familiar with and far more comfortable with.

[00:12:56] Just one sibling, did you and your brother?

[00:12:57] Yeah, no, my sister also.

[00:12:58] So I'm the youngest of three.

[00:13:01] All the brother, all the sister,

[00:13:02] so plenty of people to look up to.

[00:13:04] Well, that being said, mentoring wise sounds like dad.

[00:13:08] Pop was like, he was a good mentor, at least a good guide.

[00:13:11] What coaches or mentors actually got you

[00:13:14] to where you are today?

[00:13:17] At almost 30.

[00:13:18] Almost 30, yeah, yeah.

[00:13:21] I've never been one to care much about age though.

[00:13:23] I think it's just a social construct.

[00:13:25] That was actually time, time.

[00:13:28] Yeah, time just passing, yeah.

[00:13:30] Nothing you can do about it too.

[00:13:31] It's just gonna happen.

[00:13:32] One day I'm gonna be 30 and that's gonna be fine too.

[00:13:36] Yeah.

[00:13:36] Rough, it's rough.

[00:13:39] It takes one, yeah.

[00:13:40] No, I feel like a lot of that credit

[00:13:42] has to go to my parents.

[00:13:43] Like I live close to them right now

[00:13:47] and that's a conscious choice as well.

[00:13:49] I was just there earlier for a cup of tea

[00:13:51] because they've always been like...

[00:13:53] So British.

[00:13:55] Yeah, I mean, I've just such a great relationship with them

[00:13:58] and they've sort of trusted me

[00:14:00] to make all the right decisions

[00:14:01] and they've supported me

[00:14:02] and they've backed me in whatever way they can.

[00:14:05] Obviously because I'm the youngest of three,

[00:14:07] my sister will say,

[00:14:08] well, you're getting a bit of nicer treatment

[00:14:10] because well, they've had to go through more stuff than me.

[00:14:14] But yeah.

[00:14:16] As far as mentor-wise,

[00:14:18] I mean, I have to credit my parents

[00:14:19] and also just my brother and sister

[00:14:21] who have always been there for me

[00:14:22] and well, coincidentally,

[00:14:25] fully enough, I've ended up working together with them

[00:14:28] as well in the past few years,

[00:14:29] just as they needed someone either who could do a video,

[00:14:32] who could write a story about something,

[00:14:34] who could do some photos.

[00:14:35] Like I've always been trying to pride myself

[00:14:39] on doing as many jobs as possible.

[00:14:41] So yeah, I just have to credit my family for that.

[00:14:43] Nice to have four mentors in the household.

[00:14:46] But it's good to hear their brother and sister

[00:14:48] beating you up a little bit.

[00:14:50] Absolutely.

[00:14:51] Yeah, you have to say even keeled like in life.

[00:14:54] I've always been not too high, not too low.

[00:14:56] I feel like that mentality really suits me,

[00:14:58] but it's nice to have people

[00:15:00] that can keep you grounded for sure.

[00:15:02] Yeah, well, let's get into your documentary making.

[00:15:05] You've made two, The Unknown Torres and Gate Money.

[00:15:09] Both fascinating.

[00:15:10] You talked about before with us

[00:15:13] that the first one was kind of low budget,

[00:15:15] but you wouldn't know it by watching it.

[00:15:17] I mean, the story is great.

[00:15:19] The interviews are great.

[00:15:21] The editing and production was great.

[00:15:23] But the Gate Money one secondly

[00:15:26] taught me so much more about English football

[00:15:29] and the non-leagues and all the different levels

[00:15:33] and the challenges of it.

[00:15:34] And for me, it's similar to minor league baseball,

[00:15:38] which is what I grew up with.

[00:15:40] And so very much a connection there.

[00:15:43] But tell me more, I mean, my goodness,

[00:15:45] you must have had a lot of resistance in making Gate Money.

[00:15:48] God, yeah.

[00:15:48] You must have had a lot of resistance

[00:15:50] in trying to get information

[00:15:51] because there's a lot of crookedness going on

[00:15:53] and people tend to hide and obfuscate and get away

[00:15:59] and do all that.

[00:16:00] And you saw that in the film,

[00:16:01] but how much did you experience it in your work?

[00:16:03] Yeah, I mean, I still talk to it.

[00:16:05] I work together with Fred Atkins,

[00:16:07] who's a British journalist on that film.

[00:16:09] And we still talk about it today,

[00:16:11] that just the amount of, well, like see,

[00:16:14] I got used to making stories that will quite feel good.

[00:16:17] So The Unknown Torres to pivot back,

[00:16:19] that was the first full feature film I'd done.

[00:16:22] And that was just a happy story, right?

[00:16:23] It was just a happy story about this Argentinian guy

[00:16:25] who really pursued his dream

[00:16:27] and he got a lot out of it.

[00:16:29] And like everything is quite uplifting.

[00:16:31] There's a few emotional things in there,

[00:16:33] but generally the sentiment is good.

[00:16:35] So when I was approached to do this story,

[00:16:38] I just, you delve into it, right?

[00:16:40] And there's this money scandal in non-league football.

[00:16:43] And I've grown used to non-league football

[00:16:44] because I've been in the UK a lot

[00:16:46] and I knew what it meant.

[00:16:47] Like just semi-professional footballers.

[00:16:49] So the ride back is also your local plumber,

[00:16:51] so to speak.

[00:16:53] And these are like community clubs.

[00:16:56] Like in the UK, unlike most countries now, sadly,

[00:17:01] the UK is still quite good in grasping that concept

[00:17:04] where a football club belongs to its community.

[00:17:06] You wouldn't say, like, just on the Premier League

[00:17:09] because it's like the millionaires

[00:17:11] just trying to ruin everything, in my opinion.

[00:17:14] But in non-league and at that sort of level,

[00:17:17] like there's the fans can still interact with the play.

[00:17:20] It's like you can tell the striker at full time,

[00:17:22] like you did a great job well done

[00:17:23] on missing the penalty but scoring two goals.

[00:17:26] Like it's still a community-oriented sport there.

[00:17:30] And so what happened is during COVID,

[00:17:33] those clubs come to a standstill

[00:17:35] because these clubs rely on gate money.

[00:17:38] The money coming in from fans attending games

[00:17:40] on Saturday, three o'clock,

[00:17:42] coming in spending their money, drinking a few beers,

[00:17:45] having a few chats with their friends

[00:17:46] and the players and then going off home again.

[00:17:47] So community-oriented, those clubs are struggling.

[00:17:50] So those clubs need money to survive

[00:17:53] because no one else is gonna help them.

[00:17:54] Right, the fans can't come in because there's a lockdown.

[00:17:57] So 10 million pounds is sort of arranged after a few months

[00:18:01] by the British government to help these clubs.

[00:18:03] And then these clubs are like, okay, well great,

[00:18:05] that's gonna help us, like the money that we lost

[00:18:08] by the fans not being able to attend

[00:18:09] is now gonna come in

[00:18:10] and we're gonna be saved for a few years, great.

[00:18:13] So when that 10 million gets divvied up,

[00:18:16] it just, it doesn't add up

[00:18:17] because there's certain clubs that just get way more

[00:18:20] than they probably should have done

[00:18:22] based on just calculations

[00:18:24] of how many fans attend games, et cetera.

[00:18:26] So you get into sort of nearly a gritty of it

[00:18:28] and it's clear story of injustice.

[00:18:31] And I've got a sort of radar for injustice.

[00:18:33] I've sort of built that up in the past few years

[00:18:34] where I hate it.

[00:18:35] I absolutely despise any form of injustice.

[00:18:38] I hate it, I hate it seeing kids being bullied

[00:18:41] in school, I still hate it today.

[00:18:42] Like any form of injustice will really get me wound up.

[00:18:45] My girlfriend Renee will attest to that.

[00:18:47] My parents will attest to that.

[00:18:48] Absolutely despise it.

[00:18:50] So when this happened, like clubs got hard done by

[00:18:52] some clubs that were counting on money

[00:18:54] just didn't get that money.

[00:18:56] So we delved into it and we found out

[00:18:59] together with Fred Atkins, a journalist

[00:19:00] we delved into it and we just quickly found out

[00:19:02] there was a few clubs actually benefiting from this.

[00:19:05] And coincidentally those were the clubs

[00:19:07] that belonged to the National League Board

[00:19:09] which was the organization

[00:19:10] and National League is what the division is called

[00:19:12] the board that was actually in charge of the place.

[00:19:16] So then you go, well okay but it's still journalism, right?

[00:19:19] We try to get two sides of the story here, right?

[00:19:22] These clubs have been hard done by their feel at down shore.

[00:19:25] We can tell that side of the story quite easily

[00:19:27] because they were happy to talk.

[00:19:28] Then you get into the murky side

[00:19:30] which is just an organization

[00:19:32] that doesn't wanna say anything.

[00:19:34] We try every which way.

[00:19:37] The only thing we didn't do was just go

[00:19:39] with a rolling camera up to their house and be like,

[00:19:41] okay, can you please explain for yourself

[00:19:43] because we felt like that type of journalism

[00:19:45] didn't quite suit us.

[00:19:46] But yeah, we just got nowhere.

[00:19:48] It's like running into a brick wall

[00:19:49] which is I learned a lot from it

[00:19:52] as a storyteller, as a journalist, as a filmmaker

[00:19:54] but it wasn't easy to do put it that way.

[00:19:57] Yeah, well I mean when one side doesn't wanna participate

[00:20:00] and you wanna give the full story,

[00:20:02] it's incredibly hard.

[00:20:03] So you just have to go off the facts

[00:20:04] and I thought while watching it is,

[00:20:07] I mean we saw the same thing

[00:20:09] and this is mainly it was impressed by the pandemic.

[00:20:11] We saw the same thing here in the US

[00:20:13] on how the PPP loans and those types of things

[00:20:17] were actually handled.

[00:20:19] Who got money like Brett Favre's dumb ass

[00:20:22] took a bunch of cash, like millions of dollars

[00:20:24] when there was no reason for him to be getting money

[00:20:27] when there were other organizations

[00:20:30] who really desperately needed that cash.

[00:20:34] That to me was interesting.

[00:20:35] One thing that's also interesting

[00:20:37] is being an American and looking at

[00:20:40] like Premier League football.

[00:20:41] So let's say for instance, the UK.

[00:20:43] The UK Premier League, English Premier League 20 teams, right?

[00:20:47] And that's in the UK.

[00:20:49] Now the UK is the size of a state here

[00:20:52] in the United States, okay?

[00:20:54] Now let's take a look at California real quick.

[00:20:56] What are their three NFL football teams in California?

[00:20:59] Three, there's 20.

[00:21:01] And that's just a Premier League.

[00:21:02] Yeah, you've got the championship, right?

[00:21:05] And then you've got the ones underneath that

[00:21:07] and Wrexham taught us all of that, Jasper.

[00:21:11] Yeah, well Wrexham actually gave us,

[00:21:13] we were worried about that to start with

[00:21:15] because when we were doing this story,

[00:21:16] welcome to Wrexham came out.

[00:21:18] And we were like, well,

[00:21:19] that's surely gonna sort of ruin our story

[00:21:21] because maybe they're gonna draw parallels

[00:21:24] because Wrexham was actually one of the clubs

[00:21:25] that was hard done by the original deal.

[00:21:27] So we actually reached out

[00:21:28] to the original owner of Wrexham at the time,

[00:21:31] asking for an interview.

[00:21:32] He wasn't willing to participate.

[00:21:34] Later we found out why

[00:21:35] because the club was being sold.

[00:21:37] But yeah, I mean, England is filled with football clubs, right?

[00:21:41] It's like we've got four professional divisions

[00:21:44] and then you've got like a hotbed of,

[00:21:46] I don't know, maybe 20, 25 different leagues

[00:21:48] underneath that which are technically called non-leagues.

[00:21:51] So semi-professional.

[00:21:53] When you go to England, I usually advise like,

[00:21:55] please go and see a non-league football game.

[00:21:58] It'll absolutely change your mind about football.

[00:22:00] Like it's, I love it when you can just stand on the side,

[00:22:04] like, and you hear the players shouting at each other

[00:22:06] and you can just be part of the actual atmosphere

[00:22:10] rather than just be a seat in a 60,000 stadium

[00:22:14] where, well, it's actually filled up mostly of tourists

[00:22:17] and people that are not actually participating

[00:22:20] in creating a good atmosphere.

[00:22:21] So yeah, if you're keen on football,

[00:22:24] go to a non-league game.

[00:22:25] That's the best part.

[00:22:26] Yeah, and what's nice too, again,

[00:22:28] having that same experience

[00:22:29] in the minor leagues of baseball in America

[00:22:32] is that when you're talking about these local teams,

[00:22:35] I mean, the players get an appreciation

[00:22:38] for the community, right?

[00:22:39] And to get build relationships with people

[00:22:42] that are outside of the soccer world

[00:22:44] or outside of what they do.

[00:22:45] And it's a great experience to a way

[00:22:49] to experience different parts of the country

[00:22:51] that you hadn't lived in before.

[00:22:53] Absolutely.

[00:22:54] But also it's an appreciation for,

[00:22:56] hey, I used to be that little kid.

[00:22:58] I was, I used to be a little Jasper in the stands

[00:23:00] looking at me.

[00:23:01] So I feel a responsibility to make sure I talk to him

[00:23:04] and sign whatever he wants.

[00:23:06] Yeah, I mean, it's about building relationships, right?

[00:23:08] I mean, I've been to a few games of the same club

[00:23:11] where I actually took a share of the ownership,

[00:23:13] which cost me 55 pounds.

[00:23:15] Yeah, hell of it.

[00:23:16] To Bridge Angels, which is all,

[00:23:18] it's all about that.

[00:23:19] I went to a few games with the,

[00:23:22] who was then the chairman, Dave Netherstreet,

[00:23:24] fantastic guy who's on his pension,

[00:23:26] just running around as great guy.

[00:23:29] But you can just feel a sense of community there.

[00:23:33] And I was only there for about three weeks.

[00:23:35] I attended about three games

[00:23:36] and I could already sort of feel like

[00:23:38] I was getting emotionally involved

[00:23:39] because I was starting to get to know these people.

[00:23:41] Like after the game,

[00:23:42] you can just walk up to the striker

[00:23:44] who's having a pint, literally that

[00:23:45] and just have a conversation about anything.

[00:23:48] That's funny because I signed the striker,

[00:23:50] played quite a bit of football manager.

[00:23:52] It's one of my favorite games growing up

[00:23:54] and I'd actually signed the striker for a different team.

[00:23:57] So I was having a conversation with this guy

[00:23:59] who had signed on my laptop years earlier than that.

[00:24:02] It was a fun conversation.

[00:24:03] We ended up talking about philosophy

[00:24:05] and all these different kinds of stuff.

[00:24:06] And he was like, oh, I need to go.

[00:24:08] But that sense of community is worth a lot.

[00:24:12] It's worth far more than just being in the stands

[00:24:15] and then leaving a game

[00:24:16] and then being in the mass of people running out

[00:24:20] and running in, it's, yeah,

[00:24:21] it's a vastly different experience.

[00:24:23] I also love the promotion and relegation system.

[00:24:26] I wish we had that here in the States.

[00:24:29] I mean, it would give that churn.

[00:24:32] For me, it makes the system feel more fluid.

[00:24:36] We live in Portugal part of the time

[00:24:39] and one of our local for rents actually was just promoted.

[00:24:44] And I mean, that just brings more life to the area.

[00:24:48] No, you've got a chance to be promoted.

[00:24:50] I love it about sports.

[00:24:52] I don't love it per se because I've followed teams

[00:24:54] that have been relegated in the past

[00:24:56] and it's when new cars have been relegated twice

[00:24:59] in my life, but it is quite demoralizing.

[00:25:01] At the same time, it gives you an added incentive

[00:25:04] to stay competitive because so many of these,

[00:25:06] I love baseball, we can get into all baseball thing

[00:25:09] and I love, absolutely love Major League Baseball

[00:25:11] and Japanese Baseball.

[00:25:13] But like when you're in the middle of the pack

[00:25:16] and it's your trending towards September or even July

[00:25:20] and you're like in the middle of the pack

[00:25:21] and you're not really going anywhere,

[00:25:22] you can see, well, I'm a Marlins fan

[00:25:24] so you can usually see the Mets going up.

[00:25:28] You can see the Phillies going up.

[00:25:29] Usually even the Nationals going up

[00:25:31] and you can just, the Marlins would say

[00:25:33] sort of stack them in fourth place.

[00:25:35] It was going nowhere and you get to a point in the season

[00:25:40] where the season sort of becomes pointless, right?

[00:25:43] But when that happens in European football,

[00:25:44] it doesn't happen because it's states relevant

[00:25:47] whether you're performing or not

[00:25:48] and you're just not gonna, well, it's a trade deadline.

[00:25:50] We're gonna sell off all our best players.

[00:25:52] We're gonna get some prospects

[00:25:53] and we'll see you guys again next year.

[00:25:55] You can't do that because you're gonna get relegated

[00:25:58] and you're gonna be in a second division

[00:25:59] earning a lot less money.

[00:26:01] Players wouldn't wanna come to you

[00:26:02] because you're not playing in the highest division

[00:26:04] so it's not relevant.

[00:26:05] So it's big, big difference in mentality for sure.

[00:26:09] Yeah, yeah.

[00:26:09] If you were to talk to a younger version of yourself

[00:26:13] wanting to make either one of your documentaries,

[00:26:16] what advice would you give them?

[00:26:18] I was given great advice during the first film I did.

[00:26:22] So The Unknown Torres which was a 90 minute feature

[00:26:25] which is in hindsight just crazy doing that all by yourself

[00:26:28] because I'd written it, I was filming everything.

[00:26:31] I was doing all the interviews.

[00:26:32] I was editing everything.

[00:26:34] It was crazy.

[00:26:35] Was that the advice?

[00:26:36] Was the advice do it all yourself?

[00:26:38] I think not.

[00:26:39] No, but I love doing everything myself

[00:26:41] so I'm a bit of a control freak I guess.

[00:26:45] But I think the best advice I got was during that trip

[00:26:49] where I met up with Russell Martin

[00:26:51] who's now the manager at Southampton FC

[00:26:53] and a second division.

[00:26:54] They're probably gonna get promoted at some point.

[00:26:57] I was in the studio, I was in the studio

[00:26:59] and I was playing for a while.

[00:27:00] I had to go to Glasgow to film him

[00:27:02] because he was playing for Glasgow Rangers at the time.

[00:27:05] And I was just running.

[00:27:06] And I feel like he could sense that I was just

[00:27:08] running and running and running.

[00:27:09] And he sort of grabbed me for a second.

[00:27:11] He was like, are you enjoying it?

[00:27:13] And I was like, what do you mean?

[00:27:14] Of course I'm enjoying it.

[00:27:15] I get to come up to this stadium.

[00:27:18] I get to watch games.

[00:27:19] I get to do all of this.

[00:27:21] It's my job now so this is so much fun.

[00:27:24] It was like yeah, I can see that you're enjoying it

[00:27:26] but are you enjoying the process of making this?

[00:27:29] And I was like, well I can't wait for it to be done.

[00:27:32] He was like, but you need to remember

[00:27:35] that as soon as it's done, it's done, right?

[00:27:37] So make sure you enjoy the journey

[00:27:40] more so than the end result.

[00:27:42] And that's something that's,

[00:27:44] I've constantly got in mind when I'm doing projects now

[00:27:47] is where just enjoy the journey of making it

[00:27:49] rather than being so fixated on,

[00:27:52] well it needs to be this one MP4 file

[00:27:54] that I'm gonna send off to Amazon

[00:27:56] or iTunes or somewhere else

[00:27:58] because that's gonna be an empty feeling

[00:28:00] because there's really nothing at the end of that.

[00:28:03] So yeah, that's probably the advice

[00:28:05] I would give myself at an earlier stage even

[00:28:08] because it gets you thinking about what's important

[00:28:12] and what's important isn't finishing a job,

[00:28:13] isn't finishing that film,

[00:28:15] isn't thinking it's about the relationships

[00:28:17] that you build up, the places that you get to see,

[00:28:19] the people you get to talk to.

[00:28:20] That's the experience.

[00:28:22] It's not about the result.

[00:28:24] That's amazing and great advice

[00:28:25] for anything that we do, right?

[00:28:27] I agree.

[00:28:28] Enjoy it.

[00:28:29] One thing that you can enjoy is being a Jets fan.

[00:28:31] I don't understand that at all.

[00:28:34] Well yeah.

[00:28:35] You said before to Marlins,

[00:28:36] I mean now that I mean-

[00:28:38] Miami Marlins.

[00:28:39] Okay.

[00:28:40] Yes, Miami.

[00:28:41] It makes it better being Miami,

[00:28:42] but I mean-

[00:28:43] I'm not sure.

[00:28:44] It's not so good better since their name changed.

[00:28:46] If you visit, it makes it better.

[00:28:50] But Jets, it's like you're a masochist here.

[00:28:52] What's going on?

[00:28:53] Right.

[00:28:54] Yeah, you can see it as a sort of self-hatred.

[00:28:57] At least you're in good company.

[00:29:01] There's so many masochistic Jets fans

[00:29:04] in and around New York and everywhere else.

[00:29:07] So you're in good company.

[00:29:09] I picked a good team.

[00:29:10] That's totally fair.

[00:29:11] I don't know what it's like.

[00:29:13] I could watch any game, right?

[00:29:15] Any game.

[00:29:16] And I had this with my friend the other day.

[00:29:17] We were watching a game of football.

[00:29:18] We watched Bundesliga together.

[00:29:21] We were putting a game on.

[00:29:22] The game had finished.

[00:29:23] OK, put on something else.

[00:29:24] Just put anything else.

[00:29:25] We got to an Italian game, Serie A,

[00:29:28] and Juventus were playing Hellas Verona.

[00:29:30] And I had no affiliation with any of the teams.

[00:29:32] But automatically, I will go, let's go, Hellas Verona today.

[00:29:36] So we're doing 18th plays.

[00:29:38] Juventus are in second place.

[00:29:39] So I'll all automatically support the underdog.

[00:29:43] Anywhere I can go.

[00:29:44] So same happened.

[00:29:46] I watched ESPN America.

[00:29:47] I was just trying to that channel

[00:29:49] and I watched a Patriots v Jets game.

[00:29:51] Patriots are absolutely hammering the Jets.

[00:29:54] And I was like, the Jets are going to be my team then.

[00:29:57] Jets are my guys.

[00:29:58] Am I?

[00:29:59] Yep.

[00:29:59] So that being said, are you are you optimistic

[00:30:03] with Rogers coming back or do you just think that's going to?

[00:30:05] I'm never optimistic.

[00:30:06] I'm a Jets fan.

[00:30:08] I'll try to me.

[00:30:09] I try to lure myself into optimism every year.

[00:30:13] But that applies to any team I follow.

[00:30:15] Like with the Marlins, with the Jets,

[00:30:17] you have to preseason, you have to lure yourself

[00:30:20] into a false sense of optimism because otherwise,

[00:30:23] you're just going to be depressed all year,

[00:30:25] which you're going to be depressed at the end of the year,

[00:30:27] probably anyway.

[00:30:28] So you might as well be hopeful to start with.

[00:30:31] Yeah.

[00:30:32] You tie for first place in both those teams and the offseason.

[00:30:35] Exactly.

[00:30:35] So you tie for first place.

[00:30:36] Yeah.

[00:30:37] But to be fair, the Jets have had a good offseason.

[00:30:40] I say that every year and then it all falls down

[00:30:43] after a few years, but for you a few games,

[00:30:45] but we'll see.

[00:30:46] I don't.

[00:30:47] But I always say this to people.

[00:30:48] It's good for your soul to support a bad team.

[00:30:52] That's right.

[00:30:52] Because if you get used to your team winning all the time,

[00:30:55] as soon as that stops, look at the New England Patriots fans

[00:30:59] being all miserable now.

[00:31:00] No, no, no, no.

[00:31:01] You've had 10 years of glory.

[00:31:03] You know, you have not earned the right to be miserable.

[00:31:06] But you need a little bit of like, just stay even keeled.

[00:31:10] Not too high, not too low.

[00:31:11] You can win this game, but probably not going to happen.

[00:31:14] But if it does, it's going to be all the better.

[00:31:16] Like if the Jets were to win a Super Bowl or the Marlins

[00:31:19] win a World Series, I'll be top of the world, man.

[00:31:22] I'll be delighted because I've endured 20 years

[00:31:25] of horrible things happening to me.

[00:31:28] So yeah, it's good for your soul.

[00:31:30] It's a great point.

[00:31:31] And I kind of like the green.

[00:31:33] I feel sorry for Jets fans.

[00:31:36] So I hope that they do well too.

[00:31:38] And I have to say when the Lions went

[00:31:40] 0-16 a number of years back, that's

[00:31:42] when I became a Lions fan.

[00:31:44] And now it's kind of more fun to be a Lions fan.

[00:31:47] So I can relate, I can relate.

[00:31:49] But at least I live in Detroit.

[00:31:51] True.

[00:31:52] You've got an actual reason to.

[00:31:54] You're not actually right around the corner

[00:31:56] from the Jets stadium.

[00:31:57] Not quite, man.

[00:31:58] I don't know.

[00:31:58] No, but luckily for globalization,

[00:32:00] you can watch any game.

[00:32:01] And you can still get riled up.

[00:32:03] You can watch all the press conferences.

[00:32:05] And you can watch.

[00:32:06] Yeah.

[00:32:06] But that to me is great about living in this moment.

[00:32:10] Because you can just follow as sport

[00:32:11] as if it were your local team.

[00:32:12] Yeah, I got to say though, Brian,

[00:32:14] that in Chattanjee's podcast we have a fantasy football league.

[00:32:19] Oh, don't bring that up.

[00:32:20] And we pick, right?

[00:32:22] You know, people to actually join the league

[00:32:24] and then we talk about it on the air every week

[00:32:26] and so on and so forth.

[00:32:27] Jasper for a couple of years, he was like begging,

[00:32:30] let me on.

[00:32:31] I am so good at this.

[00:32:33] He got waxed this year.

[00:32:35] He got waxed.

[00:32:36] And here I am.

[00:32:37] I'm like telling Joe.

[00:32:38] I'm like, no, we need some Europeans on here.

[00:32:40] This is this will be fun.

[00:32:42] And yeah, so now Jasper screwed it up for all Europe.

[00:32:47] I need a retry on that because honestly, that wasn't me.

[00:32:51] That wasn't me.

[00:32:51] No, but I've grown quite good.

[00:32:53] I play fantasy baseball and football.

[00:32:55] I've won plenty of leagues, which is not everyone wins their league.

[00:32:59] I've gotten quite good at baseball in particular.

[00:33:02] But yeah, I mean, that was just a glitch

[00:33:04] in the matrix, man.

[00:33:05] I'm normally I'm good.

[00:33:06] Normally I'm good.

[00:33:07] I've done fantasy football a couple of times.

[00:33:09] I was awful at it.

[00:33:10] My wife did it like four years in a row, one

[00:33:13] twice in the league that she was in.

[00:33:15] So you won't be you won't be here

[00:33:17] and me asking to be in your league.

[00:33:19] I don't give a damn about fantasy football.

[00:33:23] We can do we can do a talent chasing league.

[00:33:25] That'd be good.

[00:33:26] That's right.

[00:33:27] Yeah, Brian just won't he won't participate at all.

[00:33:30] That's fine.

[00:33:30] There's another spot for us.

[00:33:32] Right.

[00:33:33] I'll be the critic.

[00:33:34] I'll be the critic on the side.

[00:33:35] I'll be I'll be criticizing everybody.

[00:33:37] But I feel like fantasy football, you can get lucky.

[00:33:38] You can get really lucky and you can win.

[00:33:40] Fantasy baseball takes a much more measured approach.

[00:33:43] I feel like especially it takes forever.

[00:33:45] I know, I know.

[00:33:47] Yeah, I mean, I have a life and be involved in fantasy.

[00:33:49] I have to set up a lineup every day, every day.

[00:33:52] This is yeah, I know.

[00:33:54] Yeah, no, just one a week is really all I need to focus on.

[00:34:00] I can do March Madness.

[00:34:01] Yes, I can have the computer pick my picks for me

[00:34:05] and then see if it works.

[00:34:07] That's it for me.

[00:34:09] I'm good like that.

[00:34:09] I've tried March Madness.

[00:34:10] I'm horrible at it.

[00:34:11] I'm horrible at it.

[00:34:13] Computer chooses the teams.

[00:34:15] I mean, imagine that.

[00:34:16] So so Jasper in if companies are chasing you said that somebody

[00:34:20] actually came to you to create, you know, gate money, right?

[00:34:25] How how do they find you?

[00:34:27] I mean, are you just out there or just it was where they local

[00:34:31] was as just a connection that you had before?

[00:34:34] How did that happen?

[00:34:35] And how do companies generally like find you or people like you

[00:34:38] other than Fiverr?

[00:34:39] Fiverr is not a no go because I need to earn a actual living.

[00:34:45] But what is we can get into all that all debate?

[00:34:49] The concept of Fiverr is pretty awesome.

[00:34:51] Yeah, the race to the bottom though, right?

[00:34:53] I know exactly.

[00:34:54] Like, oh, no, I'll charge 10 euros.

[00:34:56] No, I'll charge nine.

[00:34:57] Yeah, and not worth it.

[00:34:59] No, so usually it's just word of mouth.

[00:35:01] I've been lucky in the sense that I've not had to do a lot

[00:35:03] of acquisition myself.

[00:35:05] I've just been able to get quite lucky with companies that find me

[00:35:09] or the gate money document I ended up doing because I got to know

[00:35:14] this owner of football club through that first film, The Unknown

[00:35:17] Torres. You actually wanted to buy the the commercial rights

[00:35:21] of me for that film because it was really impressive.

[00:35:23] I obviously said no because I thought this was going to be a big hit.

[00:35:27] It turned out to do quite well, but good.

[00:35:29] Documentary is unease, right?

[00:35:30] It's really niche.

[00:35:32] I'm a huge documentary fan.

[00:35:34] My wife is my wife is not everyone wants to watch documentaries,

[00:35:37] but no one will pay for it.

[00:35:38] That's sort of the sentiment I got from when I was sort of getting into it.

[00:35:42] I spoke to quite a few British documentary makers and I got that

[00:35:45] advice from a few people like it's a lovely job.

[00:35:49] Like everyone wants to watch it, but when's the last time you paid

[00:35:51] to go to a cinema to watch a documentary?

[00:35:54] You didn't. You don't say.

[00:35:56] Yeah, that's and then you get into the whole Netflix part of it,

[00:35:59] which is they sort of dramatizing stories to sort of add a layer

[00:36:04] of fiction to nonfiction, which is horrible in my opinion,

[00:36:07] because you need to you need to have an authentic story.

[00:36:10] So yeah, I mean, I've just been lucky going from one place to another,

[00:36:13] meeting one person who knows a person who needs you know,

[00:36:16] he needs an article or needs a cool video about something.

[00:36:21] Yeah, I think I've just been quite lucky with that.

[00:36:23] Gate Money actually you went down to the UK, right?

[00:36:26] To be able to go through the whole red carpet ceremony and what not

[00:36:30] to actually to open it.

[00:36:32] Yeah, we're moving very quickly or we have moved, I guess you could say,

[00:36:36] to streaming. How is that going to affect the industry?

[00:36:40] Number one and number two, how in the hell do you get your content on streaming platforms?

[00:36:45] It's it's for that's a good question.

[00:36:47] So for both films, I've been lucky that we've been able to

[00:36:51] premiere at different places in the UK.

[00:36:54] So we've been organizing screenings.

[00:36:56] People have paid a few pounds to get to there.

[00:36:58] We did a Q&A after all films like you get to talk to the people who've just watched it.

[00:37:03] I got to sign autographs for the first time, which was yeah, hilarious.

[00:37:08] But it was so funny.

[00:37:10] First film I did the Anontoros, we did a premiere at the Aldous Cinema in Brighton,

[00:37:14] the Aldous Cinema in the UK actually.

[00:37:16] We managed to sell it out and afterwards we were selling DVDs

[00:37:19] because the British are quite still they like a DVD to have something physical.

[00:37:24] So we produced about 500, maybe a thousand DVDs

[00:37:28] and we just we were selling them afterwards.

[00:37:30] Like my dad was selling him and I remember this one kid came up to me like,

[00:37:34] are you the director of the film?

[00:37:36] I'm like, yeah, can I please get your autograph?

[00:37:39] And that was like so that's what it feels like.

[00:37:43] We ended up spending the night like signing autographs.

[00:37:46] It's just so funny because you feel like you feel like an imposter.

[00:37:49] Yeah, he didn't know that you're just a few years older than he was.

[00:37:52] Yeah, and it was everyone's calling me Mr.

[00:37:55] And I was like, dude, I'm like 25 or 24 at this point.

[00:37:59] He's relax.

[00:38:00] It was it was awesome.

[00:38:02] But to get to get back to your question, like streaming is is difficult

[00:38:06] because I've had to enjoy this with both films.

[00:38:08] Both of my ideas were like, OK, let's get this onto a platform

[00:38:11] because we want to get as many people as possible to see.

[00:38:14] We were lucky to sell the Anontoros to a company in London

[00:38:19] who are going to distribute it for us.

[00:38:21] But then that sounds great, right?

[00:38:23] Selling selling your film.

[00:38:24] You think, wow, this guy's done well for us.

[00:38:26] And we've got we got 200 pounds for that film.

[00:38:29] I'm not joking. 200 pounds.

[00:38:31] That's all. Wow.

[00:38:32] I know. And that wasn't because it wasn't a good film.

[00:38:35] That was just because it's impossible to get your film up to a channel

[00:38:40] and then to get some sort of revenue from that.

[00:38:43] It's so hard.

[00:38:43] And we try Netflix like going the Netflix route.

[00:38:46] And then you quickly find out, right?

[00:38:47] Netflix only works with a limited amount of distributors.

[00:38:51] And those are distributors that they've worked with for years.

[00:38:55] So it's like it's a machine that's already going and trying to get on.

[00:38:59] It's a train and you're trying to get on, but there's no way there's no platform.

[00:39:03] You can't get on because they're already sort of stuck with their own.

[00:39:07] These are the companies that we work with and no one else.

[00:39:09] No one from the outside can just get their film onto Netflix.

[00:39:13] Absolutely impossible.

[00:39:14] But Amazon, on the other hand, they're quite open about it.

[00:39:18] You can actually self distribute on Amazon, which is quite easy to do.

[00:39:22] Well, you need to get all the right specs.

[00:39:24] With both films, we were lucky that we managed to distribute in a way

[00:39:28] that it got technically it got sold.

[00:39:31] It's Netflix has sort of made it impossible.

[00:39:35] Prime is much better because you can also just rent films there.

[00:39:37] You can buy films.

[00:39:39] I'm a much bigger fan of that platform also for distributing your own books.

[00:39:44] It helps the independent storyteller who just wants to get the story out there,

[00:39:50] who doesn't want to have all these contractual obligations.

[00:39:53] He doesn't want to have all these commercial interests in their story,

[00:39:55] but just wants to get an authentic story out there.

[00:39:58] But then there's the types of Disney's Netflixes of this world,

[00:40:01] which have made it just too hard in my opinion.

[00:40:05] Yeah, Jeff Bezos rules the world, but he provides some good stuff.

[00:40:08] True. So I mean, last but not least for me,

[00:40:11] kind of a weird turn, but you're a big fan of World War Two Japanese strategies.

[00:40:18] Now, that to me was incredibly specific

[00:40:21] because you'll see that, you know, like the Pacific and then obviously European

[00:40:25] theaters and whatnot, but specifically Japanese strategy.

[00:40:30] So what actually drew you into that?

[00:40:33] I know you have a love for Japanese baseball.

[00:40:35] Did that like draw you in?

[00:40:37] How did that happen?

[00:40:39] So I live in a country that is obviously a big part of World War Two

[00:40:43] in the sense that we got occupied by Germany.

[00:40:46] We were one of the first countries to get occupied by Germany.

[00:40:49] It only took him about two days because we only had two tanks, I believe.

[00:40:53] So that wasn't too hard.

[00:40:54] But it's I grew up on that narrative all the time.

[00:40:57] But I was so familiar with that narrative at that point

[00:41:01] where I was in like middle school, I guess it's called like 15, 16 years old.

[00:41:06] And I just sort of got, well, OK, I know this side of the story,

[00:41:10] but what happened there? Right.

[00:41:12] And it all sort of started with my fascination for Pearl Harbor, that whole incident.

[00:41:18] To me, if I found it captivating that we were being told one side of the history,

[00:41:23] which was, well, OK, it's local, so it makes sense to tell that site.

[00:41:26] But I was amazed because I sort of inquired in my class at the time,

[00:41:30] like, do you guys know that what happened in Japan and on all those tiny islands

[00:41:34] was actually also part of World War Two.

[00:41:36] They were like, no, wasn't that like a separate war?

[00:41:39] Really? I was almost, yeah, I know.

[00:41:41] And I was almost because you're going to get you're going to get it completely different.

[00:41:44] You're you you're accustomed to the other way around, right?

[00:41:47] Now we're accustomed to the two front.

[00:41:49] I mean, we were in the Pacific and we were in the Europe.

[00:41:52] Because you were at both places.

[00:41:54] Yeah. But it's for us, it's like almost as if that war,

[00:41:57] that side of war didn't exist.

[00:42:00] And I'd read the book, The Pacific.

[00:42:03] Ambrose, I believe is the writer, which was fascinating to me.

[00:42:07] And it was around that age where I read it and I just delved into that war

[00:42:10] because I found the intricacies of what happened in the Pacific

[00:42:14] so much more interesting of what happened here

[00:42:16] because Germany occupied Europe in a quite simple fashion.

[00:42:21] The Brits fought back, France fought back.

[00:42:24] Obviously everyone tried to fight back in its own right, but they were

[00:42:26] they were no match.

[00:42:28] The what happened in all those tiny islands in the Pacific

[00:42:32] completely different story, especially just the US having to go there

[00:42:37] and having to fight in the in this sort of atmosphere

[00:42:40] and a culture and a climate that they had.

[00:42:42] Like Europe can feel familiar to an American soldier.

[00:42:46] Right. When you go into those Pacific islands

[00:42:49] and you get into the monsoon season.

[00:42:50] Yes. No. Completely different.

[00:42:53] So it sort of started with Pearl Harbor reading about that,

[00:42:57] watching every documentary I could find on that

[00:42:59] and then just also being amazed by the strategies,

[00:43:02] strategies that the Japanese had opted for.

[00:43:05] And just the element of surprise in war is is the biggest thing.

[00:43:09] And they just sort of managed to nail it completely with like with Pearl Harbor.

[00:43:14] And I just I just find it fascinating.

[00:43:17] So I spent the entire summer just reading about Japanese war strategies at that point.

[00:43:22] It is an incredible story.

[00:43:23] And I locked myself onto it too.

[00:43:25] I became a non historian, but a fascinated about the whole story

[00:43:30] and how it came about for many different countries, not just the United States.

[00:43:33] But as we talked about earlier offline,

[00:43:36] I wish more of us in the world were curious about how that happened.

[00:43:39] Absolutely. And where the mistakes were made.

[00:43:41] Yeah. And why it's important for us to keep NATO healthy

[00:43:45] and and functioning and why it's important to make sure Ukraine is supported now.

[00:43:52] History history is very important for all of us.

[00:43:55] And I'm glad that each of us at least have taken an interest in it.

[00:43:58] Yeah. I mean, like history is what is always going to teach us

[00:44:02] about what's going to happen in the future.

[00:44:03] If we don't learn from history, then history is just going to repeat itself time and time again.

[00:44:08] And we've seen that so many times, even what's happening with Ukraine and Russia.

[00:44:12] I'm always amazed by I don't find history interesting at all.

[00:44:15] I was like, yeah, but that's just because you had a boring teacher.

[00:44:18] It's actually fascinating.

[00:44:20] You need to try and educate yourself because it's so important.

[00:44:23] Yeah. And you've never been occupied or you've never been under duress.

[00:44:28] You've never had your life at stake for the governing body

[00:44:31] that is responsible for your safety.

[00:44:34] That makes it real relevant real quick for any of us.

[00:44:37] Yes, yeah. Agreed.

[00:44:38] Well, and on this podcast, we talked to interesting people this time

[00:44:43] we're talking to Jasper, so we'll kind of let that one go.

[00:44:45] But we're talking to interesting people about their history,

[00:44:49] about their background, about the actual talent,

[00:44:53] the hunt, the chase, all those things.

[00:44:55] So, you know, Jasper, we appreciate you letting it all out in your whole almost

[00:45:01] 30 years of living.

[00:45:03] Is there anything that we miss that you wanted to throw out there?

[00:45:06] That's just a great story.

[00:45:08] Well, I don't know guys, you think you've you've covered quite a bit.

[00:45:11] I don't know if you've got any more questions for me.

[00:45:13] Yeah, we've covered quite a bit.

[00:45:15] And I think we hit all the areas that I really wanted to hit.

[00:45:18] So I think we're good.

[00:45:19] Nice. Excellent.

[00:45:21] Brian Johnson, Jasper Spandart and Chad So-Wash,

[00:45:25] we will see you next week on Talent Chasing.

[00:45:29] Thank you for tuning in to this week's episode of Talent Chasing with Brian

[00:45:32] Johnson, Chad So-Wash and Jasper Spandart.

[00:45:36] Don't forget to subscribe to Talent Chasing on your favorite podcast platform.

[00:45:41] We'll see you next time.