Gargi, Maitreyee and other Brahmavadinis (Part 3)

[00:00:01] filled with the spirit of the past and alive with the realness of the present. I am ancient, I am new. I am Heritage India.

[00:00:14] Now her full name is Gargi Vachak Nami.

[00:00:19] So people say that we will come to her story also.

[00:00:23] People say that Vachak Nu was the name of a king and

[00:00:27] Shankaracharya says no, Vachak Nu was the name of a Rushi because Gargi is so great, so her father must be Rushi.

[00:00:34] Some sort of logic behind this.

[00:00:37] And that is why she is called Vachak Nami. If you ask me

[00:00:43] She is called Vachak Nami. Vachak, you know the word Vak.

[00:00:47] And if Vachak Nu means a man who is a good orator,

[00:00:52] Vachak Nami means a woman who is a go

[00:00:56] wonderful orator and I'm sure that that is why she was called Vachak Nami. Now, where do we meet her?

[00:01:04] Again in the same Bruhada Rannayaka Upanishad where we saw we met Maitreya and Yarnia Valkya.

[00:01:11] And in Janaka Vaideha also comes now

[00:01:15] It is in the court of Janaka Vaideha that I told you that he used to hold

[00:01:22] Brahmodyas

[00:01:23] philosophical discussions and Yarnia Valkya was the judge. He was the court philosopher

[00:01:31] for these

[00:01:33] Brahmodyas

[00:01:34] Many philosophers were there

[00:01:37] And one of them was Gargi

[00:01:40] Just as I told you that one of the Tarpa Rushi is it's Sulabha Brahmavadini

[00:01:47] Here also I'm surprised look at the greatness of Janaka also that he has invited a woman

[00:01:57] Please remember all this has happened

[00:02:00] 4,000 years back

[00:02:02] and even in those times

[00:02:05] If people respected women and her intelligence

[00:02:10] Then I think we have to give them credit

[00:02:14] We have to give even these women a lot of credit, but these people also we must respect

[00:02:21] So she was there too and then one day you know after a lot of there were many others like usha stash chakra

[00:02:28] And Gargiya, Kahola and all those people great philosophers and Gargi was one of them

[00:02:35] Yarnia Valkya, sorry Janaka Vaideha one said there are always discussions in our court philosophical discussions

[00:02:46] Let us find out who is the best one of them and he says for the best one who is the best philosopher

[00:02:52] I mean of course there will be a competition and whosoever gets the first prize in debating gets

[00:02:58] 1000 cows whose horns are adorned with gold dipped ornaments

[00:03:06] So just imagine cattle was the real wealth gold was just incidental in those days, you know, but it still was

[00:03:15] precious

[00:03:17] so people are looking at each other, you know that

[00:03:20] Who thinks that he is the best who would say that that I'm the best one and I'm taking the cattle

[00:03:27] No one had the guards and no one had the courage

[00:03:32] So Yarnia Valkya

[00:03:34] He is the court philosopher. He is also a great philosopher. So he calls one of his students and says

[00:03:42] Hey, Samya Osan come here and take all that cattle and put it to take it to our guru kuru

[00:03:50] And then the philosopher suddenly get I mean they get agitated why

[00:03:55] We won't even had haven't even had any discussion. He says, okay ask me questions and I'll prove that I am the greatest one

[00:04:03] So first question is put by

[00:04:06] Usha stash chakra, Yana, which Yarnia Valkya easily answers ushastra keeps quiet

[00:04:13] Then the second question is asked by Gargy

[00:04:17] Yarnia Valkya

[00:04:18] Mutes him to you know, he gives the perfect answer then kahola

[00:04:23] No problem at all

[00:04:25] And then it is the turn of gargah

[00:04:29] Okay, see though upanishad gives you only a paragraph about every philosopher

[00:04:35] probabilities went on for a

[00:04:37] Whole entire evening with every philosopher gargah's turn was fourth

[00:04:42] So probabilities happened on the fourth evening and that gargah

[00:04:47] she first

[00:04:48] Did namaskara to everybody and said

[00:04:52] Bhoyad Nya Valkya

[00:04:54] all this earth

[00:04:56] That we see

[00:04:58] kasmin idam jagat

[00:05:00] otam cha protham cha

[00:05:03] This entire earth in what is it contained?

[00:05:08] By what it is covered? We know the word otaprotham

[00:05:13] But in marathi we use it in a very different sense

[00:05:16] but here it may otah and protham are the

[00:05:20] warp and weft that is ubhe adave tantu

[00:05:26] When you weave a cloth a framp family

[00:05:29] So she says in what are they contained what covers the earth and he says

[00:05:36] apah

[00:05:37] That she goes one step ahead

[00:05:40] And apak kasmin kalutad otam cha o protham cha

[00:05:45] He says oh that is vayu

[00:05:47] Okay, and in vayu

[00:05:50] Antarikshaya gargi it is easy antarikshaya

[00:05:55] And antarikshaya kasmin otam cha protham cha

[00:05:59] Just see she is taking him from sthula to sruksha

[00:06:05] From macro to micro because pruthvi it's sthula

[00:06:11] And then it's not only from macro to micro

[00:06:14] But it is also one more thing that the next answer is

[00:06:19] vyapak

[00:06:20] It contains or covers the first thing and the most important thing is there is a cause effect relationship

[00:06:29] so anyway

[00:06:32] Gargi then asked in what is this uh antarikshaya

[00:06:37] Contain he says

[00:06:40] Something like you know he then goes on like deva loka gandharva loka chandra loka aditya loka nakshatra loka

[00:06:49] And all those things and kaswin lu khaluidam otam cha protham cha her thirst for knowledge is not quenched

[00:06:58] The others have asked only one question. She keeps on asking questions till her

[00:07:04] Jidneyasa will be satisfied

[00:07:07] Okay, so she asked and kaswin lu khalu idam brahmalo sorry i am brahmalo ka otascha prothascha iti

[00:07:16] And then yad neval kya says

[00:07:18] gargi

[00:07:20] maati prakshi hi

[00:07:22] murn maate murda vyapta adi

[00:07:26] He says gargi you are asking too many questions atip prasana. You are asking too many questions

[00:07:33] I hope your head doesn't fall down

[00:07:37] I hope your brain is able to sustain these complicated topics

[00:07:44] he says don't ask about something which

[00:07:48] cannot be

[00:07:50] Concerned or explained only by turkle that is logic or nyaya

[00:07:57] For that you need something else maa atip prakshi hi

[00:08:03] And then when he says that maa te murda vyapta ad

[00:08:08] She says she sits down and then keeps quiet

[00:08:13] This was actually you know probably in this

[00:08:17] short

[00:08:19] discussion

[00:08:20] Yad neval kya could not fathom how deep gargi's knowledge and her thirst for

[00:08:27] Knowledge is and therefore he kind of shut her off

[00:08:31] I don't like it

[00:08:33] Maybe it was also his i'm sorry to say i'm not judging anyone

[00:08:37] I'm not commenting anyone and i'm not blaming anyone at all this is only my approach

[00:08:44] And my attitude and only my

[00:08:47] Guess what i would say that there was also his male ego which was heard that she's asking questions

[00:08:54] Which none other have asked and she is asking too many questions

[00:08:58] And I have to disclose a lot of lot more philosophy to her

[00:09:04] Anyway gargi keeps quiet and goes back home

[00:09:10] Now see even ushastachakrayana went home and went home in the sense

[00:09:14] You know they kept quiet sat in the court, but they kept quiet never came back and asked any question

[00:09:21] Gargi was restless

[00:09:24] She wanted to know the answers to all her questions

[00:09:28] After four days she comes again to the court

[00:09:32] And doing namaskara to the brahmanas

[00:09:37] She says

[00:09:38] And this again, you know the sowskirt language is so beautiful. You know, even however good

[00:09:45] I may be at english and i translate it well

[00:09:48] You cannot get that beauty that's deep sense. She says

[00:09:53] yatha vai

[00:09:55] kashova vaidehova ugra putraha

[00:09:58] dvau vada vantau

[00:10:01] Amazing it is you know now i will explain it in english she says just as

[00:10:07] ugra putraha a brave soldier

[00:10:10] From either kashi or videha, of course she is standing in the court of videha

[00:10:16] So she better say something about videha too, which is very perfect

[00:10:22] ugra putraha

[00:10:24] udajjam dhanur adijjamukrutva in his quiver

[00:10:29] He takes that dhanu that is bow in his hand and he has only two arrows

[00:10:36] dvau vada vantau, but how are these two arrows?

[00:10:40] sapatnati vyadhinau he is very sure

[00:10:44] That with these two arrows he will kill all his enemies and he will win

[00:10:51] Similarly

[00:10:53] O yadna valkya i have only two questions

[00:10:59] If possible answer them

[00:11:02] Shankaracharya says brahma vith che

[00:11:05] If you really know the brahman then answer my questions

[00:11:10] Don't just shut my mouth. Don't just make me keep quiet answer them

[00:11:16] First of all before we go to those questions, aren't you stunned?

[00:11:23] That the courage with which gargi has come back

[00:11:28] How does it come to her?

[00:11:30] I'll tell you how it comes

[00:11:32] When there is a real pursuit of knowledge

[00:11:36] It doesn't matter whether you are a man or a woman, you know

[00:11:40] Not to that person not to the society

[00:11:44] Secondly she was convinced

[00:11:47] So the courage came by conviction

[00:11:50] The courage came because of her pursuit of knowledge

[00:11:54] And third and most important the courage came because of her

[00:11:59] Self confidence and self esteem

[00:12:02] Which is amazing

[00:12:05] Real fascinating woman from ancient India

[00:12:09] She said she was so sure you know

[00:12:11] That with these two questions she would make yadna valkya keep quiet

[00:12:15] And she would win the brahma vith che

[00:12:18] Now let's come to the questions

[00:12:20] Yadna valkya of course had to accept

[00:12:22] I mean when there is a philosopher

[00:12:24] See now I do not want to say a woman philosopher

[00:12:27] She is a philosopher

[00:12:29] Beyond any caste, creed, gender and what we say you know

[00:12:34] So when a philosopher challenges you

[00:12:36] With two questions who are sure to defeat you

[00:12:40] These are the words gargi uses

[00:12:43] Then it is important for yadna valkya

[00:12:48] It is important for yadna valkya to accept the challenge

[00:12:53] He says okay I also like gargi for one more reason

[00:12:57] She does not break the protocol

[00:13:00] She does not break the decorum of the code

[00:13:04] She takes permission from all the brahmin's

[00:13:07] All the philosophers sorry

[00:13:09] All the philosophers who are gathered there

[00:13:11] From king jannaka and then addresses yadna valkya

[00:13:16] This is important because you know sometimes if you are over confident

[00:13:20] You cross the limits and then you say things which you shouldn't have said

[00:13:26] Because it then

[00:13:29] Tills to arrogance

[00:13:32] But she was not arrogant at all

[00:13:36] And then she asked two questions

[00:13:40] To be honest for me and for everyone around

[00:13:44] The question itself the both the questions itself are going to be difficult

[00:13:50] So probably the answer is a little simpler compared to that

[00:13:55] Because we all know what is brahma at least on academic level

[00:14:00] Gargi says you talked about all those brahmalo

[00:14:03] Um aditya loka chandra loka and all that

[00:14:07] But tell me one thing and listen to this very carefully

[00:14:11] She says yadna valkya how does this happen

[00:14:17] That

[00:14:18] Surya chandra masau vidhrutau tishtha

[00:14:24] Surya and chandra ma the sun and the moon they stay away from each other

[00:14:30] They move but they never collide

[00:14:33] They take their own course their own orbits their own velocity speeds and all but they never clash

[00:14:41] They never crash into each other also

[00:14:44] How does this happen?

[00:14:46] kasyaprashasane

[00:14:48] Under whose command who decides that in other words

[00:14:55] In other words she is talking about this physical things you know space

[00:15:02] She's talking about space

[00:15:04] And she asked this question

[00:15:07] And the next question she asked is asks is

[00:15:11] sarvam yadidam bhutam

[00:15:14] vartamanavishad

[00:15:16] future vartamanam cho

[00:15:19] kasyaprashasane idam sarvam bhaavati

[00:15:24] Under whose command does it happen?

[00:15:27] I'm surprised because the first question I haven't given you the details

[00:15:32] But the first question talks and pertains to the space

[00:15:38] And this question obviously

[00:15:40] Bhuta Bhavishav vartamanam pertains to time

[00:15:44] and remember

[00:15:46] Space and time

[00:15:48] Are very important elements in philosophy on theoretical level. They are very important

[00:15:55] That remember when I was in Ferguson college professor Esway Bokil had taught us

[00:16:01] About western philosophers. They were all men and one of them. I think he was german Kant

[00:16:07] And he had first said

[00:16:09] That space and time are same

[00:16:13] I'll come to this

[00:16:14] Had I known gargi more in those days?

[00:16:17] I would have told him that he was kan't was not the first one

[00:16:21] Gargi was the first one

[00:16:23] anyway, she he is sorry gargi says

[00:16:28] That space and time

[00:16:31] Under whose juris riksha under whose command they work so perfectly well

[00:16:37] Yeah, they will chase also surprised

[00:16:40] And he says gargi

[00:16:43] Now that you have asked a question

[00:16:45] Let me tell you

[00:16:47] and he says

[00:16:48] that

[00:16:50] aksharam

[00:16:51] Instead of saying brahman. He uses the word aksharam

[00:16:56] Aksharam is something which does not change at all and that is brahman

[00:17:02] But you know the description I must say something more about the description first

[00:17:07] He's both of them. They tell you that this space

[00:17:11] Which is below the earth and beyond the sky

[00:17:16] Akashi

[00:17:18] Now here the word akash is not used in the sense of sky, which we see, you know

[00:17:24] Like the clouds and all it is not that's akash. Akasha is something which is

[00:17:32] Beyond the sky it is beyond space

[00:17:36] Even it is beyond the outer space on

[00:17:39] That national geography channels many times we see these programs

[00:17:43] And there they talk about

[00:17:46] Expanding universe yad neval kya and maith reya discussing that

[00:17:53] One of the very modern philosophers

[00:17:55] Or please remember that all physicists have turned philosophers in the end whether it was newton or einstein or steven hawking

[00:18:06] When steven hawking he was the first modern philosopher to talk and give us a wonderful terminology

[00:18:14] He talks about

[00:18:16] space time singularity

[00:18:18] That is both are same

[00:18:21] Maith sorry gargi is using the same idea in a different in different words probably

[00:18:30] But she's tackling the same question the same problem and then yad neval kya says

[00:18:37] Everything happens whether space or time or whatever you say

[00:18:42] Happens only under the jurisdiction prasah sanam of akshar

[00:18:48] And he says he gives many examples, you know not many but he gives some examples and he says

[00:18:56] Therefore

[00:18:58] Prachan adhyahashwethe bhyaparvate bhyavatheerya

[00:19:02] All those rivers which move towards the east prachya

[00:19:07] They come from the mountain

[00:19:10] Obviously himalaya and they go in that same direction

[00:19:15] To the east who tells them to go to the east

[00:19:19] Right and then about the time he says

[00:19:27] Nimisha is the time taken to blink your eyelid

[00:19:32] Muhurta muhurta is a moment

[00:19:35] Ahoratrani day and night

[00:19:37] Ardham asa

[00:19:40] Half a month

[00:19:42] Masaha months

[00:19:44] Ruta vaha seasons and

[00:19:48] Samvat sarani jya and even the year

[00:19:52] Everything happens under the aksharasya prashasani. So first he says talks about akasha

[00:20:01] And when gargi asks him

[00:20:03] Kasminu khalu akasha utascha prutascha. He talks about akshah

[00:20:09] And this brahmadnyana or this aksharadnyana

[00:20:14] It's something which is the real upanishadic philosophy

[00:20:18] Even today all the scientists all over the world have started believing that it is

[00:20:26] There is some

[00:20:27] Power, you know, there is some principle

[00:20:32] Which governs this entire universe and we are unable to even understand that

[00:20:40] And they call it expanding universe and therefore he says

[00:20:49] And then he said

[00:20:54] So just imagine and then gargi is convinced but before that yadniyavalki tells her many other things

[00:21:01] He says

[00:21:03] A person who understands brahman and by the way brahman is always described as

[00:21:13] It is not sukshma. It is not sthula. It is not dry. It is not wet

[00:21:17] Sorry wet it is not big. It is not small

[00:21:21] so

[00:21:22] Because it doesn't have any qualities of its own like water, you know

[00:21:27] Tessless odorless colorless and all those things

[00:21:31] So this is what he says and

[00:21:34] He says a person

[00:21:37] who

[00:21:39] A person who

[00:21:41] Leaves this world that is dice, but they don't say die because the atman never dies who lives this world

[00:21:48] Without understanding this akshara

[00:21:52] Is called krupana

[00:21:54] So krupana in south split. It means a poor fellow. You know, it doesn't mean

[00:22:00] A stringent fellow. It means a poor fellow

[00:22:04] He does if he doesn't understand and leaves this world

[00:22:07] He is a krupana and a person who understands it

[00:22:13] And then leaves this place is called a brahman

[00:22:17] Because he has understood brahman and therefore he is called brahman

[00:22:22] So just remember brahmana unlike

[00:22:26] All those things have which have been

[00:22:28] People have been saying about brahmana and brahmanatva are not there in the open issues at all

[00:22:36] So we better be very careful about that and then

[00:22:40] Gargi

[00:22:41] folds her hand

[00:22:43] Says namaste to yad nia valkya because she is convinced because she's it is the first time she has got the knowledge of

[00:22:50] Brahman and i'm very sure later on like maitreya even she would become his disciple

[00:22:57] And not only that she says to other philosophers who have gathered in the court that

[00:23:03] Oh philosophers you better go home because i'm very sure that none of you can match

[00:23:11] The widths and knowledge and the method and philosophy of this great person yad nia valkya

[00:23:18] And this is where the gargi yad nia valkya samvada ends like i told you all these

[00:23:26] Philosophies, you know they are woven with stories. They are always in conversational style

[00:23:32] So it becomes easier for the reader or the listener to understand the meaning the sentences are small

[00:23:39] The similes are beautiful. It's at the same time just as it is a philosophical discourse

[00:23:45] It's a piece of literature which you can enjoy, you know

[00:23:48] It's a wonderful thing and that is why gargi has become the greatest

[00:23:55] woman philosopher in the entire history of the entire world

[00:24:01] Okay, not only india not only baharata

[00:24:04] But all over the world gargi is considered to be the greatest one

[00:24:10] Even then I always say there are many

[00:24:13] Girls, you know who are named as my tree but very few who are named gargi in my life

[00:24:20] I have made on mate only one person whose name was gargi

[00:24:25] Anyway, so this is how the women philosophers the intellectuals of india were right from bharati to

[00:24:34] Uh, sullabha brahmavadini maitre ye gargi and in my invocation

[00:24:40] I also said that I pay respect to all those women who had done brahmay shana

[00:24:48] Do you think only four women were brahmavadini's? No, there must have been many more, you know

[00:24:55] Because all these women they must have learned from women philosophers and there must have been more philosophers

[00:25:02] But who are adnyatas? We don't know anything about them unfortunately

[00:25:08] And I would dedicate this talk of mine

[00:25:12] To all those adnyatas tree tatvadhyani

[00:25:16] Because of whom because of that tradition

[00:25:20] Even in 2020

[00:25:22] We as women

[00:25:24] Can show our metal and

[00:25:28] Have the courage of gargi have the confidence of gargi

[00:25:34] Have the humility and understanding of maitre ye

[00:25:38] And also be judges like bharati. Thank you very much. I am ancient. I am new. I am heritage india