That's a wrap for Season 3!

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to the final episode in series 3 of Fashion Not all as it seems.

[00:00:07] I'm Emma, I'm your co-host today and I am so pleased to be joined by all of the other

[00:00:14] co-hosts as well. We have Jo, Nairi and Koshy joining for today's wrap up conversation where

[00:00:22] we're going to be talking highlights, learnings and how we're going to carry forward into

[00:00:26] season 4 which is also super super excited. So I'm going to kick start the conversation

[00:00:33] hand over to the other ladies. Jo, I'm going to start with you. Talk to us about your biggest

[00:00:41] highlights from season 3. First of all what a great season. I think it's just been really

[00:00:47] interesting to hear so many different perspectives. It was amazing to interview Gemma, she's

[00:00:52] been on my wish list for such a long time. So to kind of see her journey and how passionate

[00:00:58] she is about everything was just super inspiring. I've loved hearing your episodes Emma you know

[00:01:05] and it just reinforces how craft is innate within you and it's been such a joy and

[00:01:11] I think that's been a real observation of mine there. You know we all work in slightly

[00:01:16] different fields that are complementary but actually through all of the seasons we're

[00:01:21] just kind of going deeper and deeper into our niche and I think that's really come out

[00:01:24] with episodes that I've heard from your guests. And I think it's been really good to kind

[00:01:29] of just ask some questions that we don't know the answers to. You know the AI episode

[00:01:35] you know none of us are experts Koshy really is the one that leads that but to kind

[00:01:40] of say how is this going to evolve? I think it's just great to have those open conversations

[00:01:45] and especially right now when we've got that after strike and to see how things are

[00:01:49] going to develop. You know it's just been interesting to kind of kick it off so lots

[00:01:55] and lots of highlights. I was listening again last night and just super inspiring to have

[00:02:00] such great guests who give their time and share their information and knowledge and also

[00:02:06] their passion. I think that's the key thing that's come out this season how passionate

[00:02:09] everybody is and how our guests kind of live and breathe what they do. So those

[00:02:15] have been my highlights. What about you Nairi? I have really liked this sort of the more

[00:02:21] setting of the tone of the episodes that we have been creating. Virtually sort of

[00:02:28] replicating what you have just said Joe, you know working more into our passions

[00:02:35] or our I don't really like using the word passion because it seems to be used quite

[00:02:39] you know you must have a passion in this to do this. Well it's not necessary

[00:02:43] just a passion it's also what ignites us and what drives us I think. And that's

[00:02:49] where I'm seeing this season is going and really like to see the highlights of

[00:02:59] the crafts and the artisans because for me these are the people that need to be

[00:03:05] shouted out more about they can do quite a lot of support and help to make

[00:03:13] the fashion industry so much better. And people have the misconceptions of it and

[00:03:19] I think highlighting these is very important to showcase that you know

[00:03:25] maybe we need to consider and look at different ways things are created as

[00:03:31] well. And then that jumps to the AI episodes. It's I'm still sat on the

[00:03:37] fence with AI but I still I think you know as you mentioned with the actors

[00:03:44] striking you know their rights may be taken away if AI is replicated with

[00:03:50] them in their bodies and they're in the films. So they say okay well we don't

[00:03:55] need actors or we have already various movements and scenes in the way that

[00:03:59] you express and then people create an AI based video or movie which has

[00:04:05] you know happened. So I still feel that maybe something is being taken away from

[00:04:11] us or our ability to keep control of what we have as a writer as an artist

[00:04:19] because you know artists are forgotten about as well when whether it is

[00:04:26] painting, drawing, creating even the fashion designs even creating code on

[00:04:32] websites and things you know these are all artists that are doing things and

[00:04:37] maybe AI is taking something away so that's where I stand. Yeah so talking

[00:04:42] about AI again that sort of I sit on the fence when it comes to that. I'm

[00:04:49] concerned that it may take away our rights as artists or creators especially

[00:04:58] when the manipulation can be created artificially basically. So you know take

[00:05:06] for example the actors who are striking you know maybe their images could

[00:05:13] be manipulated and put into a movie for example what about all the web

[00:05:19] developers and the designers and the other creators as well you know it's

[00:05:26] great that we have this opportunity but how far do we take it. Maybe I'm

[00:05:33] still completely yeah I will say I'm not knowledgeable enough still in it and I

[00:05:38] think you know it is a really big world to sort of deep dive into and again

[00:05:43] Koshi you are the leader in that. You're the expert of AI so you know

[00:05:52] I'll hand it over to you to put some input in as well because that would be

[00:05:57] really great. Thank you Nairi. I think one of the conversations that will be

[00:06:01] continued throughout many industries is around AI. The impact of AI on

[00:06:08] creatives and their job prospects is a complex and multifaceted topic. While

[00:06:16] AI has the potential to revolutionize the creative industry in various ways

[00:06:23] its effects are not uniformly positive or negative. We're still

[00:06:30] investigating into that. AI will change many key points in the way we work

[00:06:38] and create for example increased efficiency and productivity new creative

[00:06:45] tools and mediums personalization and audience engagement challenges to

[00:06:52] traditional creative roles copyright and ownership concerns skills and

[00:06:58] education job displacement and redistribution also very important

[00:07:04] ethical consideration. We need to credit artists that AI is inspired by

[00:07:12] AI does copy styles and signature styles of creatives and we need to sit down

[00:07:20] on a table and talk about this and create a system where these artists

[00:07:26] and their work their life's work is protected. It has been a great season

[00:07:32] overall. Emma why don't you share some of the highlights from season three.

[00:07:37] So in terms of this season's highlights again I love the guests that we have

[00:07:45] on and the range of guests with very broad and different perspectives.

[00:07:52] So I'm always inspired and motivated by everyone that comes on and the

[00:07:56] knowledge gained. And so that's yeah I love that but I also this season

[00:08:04] as also I found you know it's challenged me as well of my viewpoints when I go

[00:08:09] back to the interview we had with Kavita Parma from Extant and her

[00:08:18] belief that you know globally we just need to stop producing we need to stop

[00:08:22] making and you know I was like within I was like but we can't what about

[00:08:26] you know people that have a living and they they need to you know they

[00:08:29] need to make a living from what they do and they're preserving these

[00:08:32] beautiful traditional art forms and crafts what would happen to them.

[00:08:36] So I'm always I always love and am motivated by these conversations but I

[00:08:41] also find them really challenging as well which I always think is a really

[00:08:44] good thing because they highlight so many different things that

[00:08:48] that we need to be looking at that we need to broaden our views on and

[00:08:53] how do we come together and change things collectively but I do think

[00:08:58] different views and different perspectives are what's necessary to

[00:09:03] actually foster togetherness in a way as well and to welcome those different

[00:09:08] perspectives I think is is always really really cool.

[00:09:12] And so in terms of you know what what are the you know we've talked about

[00:09:19] what we love but in terms of the conversations we've had what are

[00:09:23] your biggest takeaways from any of them. Nairi I'll hand over to you.

[00:09:28] Is there something that stays with you because I often get these seasons where

[00:09:31] I'm like oh this keeps on coming up for me this is something that's really

[00:09:35] challenged me or that you know I need to explore more what does it bring up for you.

[00:09:40] Yeah for me I would definitely yeah it's the AI I'm still as I said sat on the fence

[00:09:49] but then when you've got the the crafters and the artisan textiles you know if we do

[00:09:55] stop as you've just spoken about if we do stop producing which I can see and

[00:10:01] rightly so we do need to stop what happens to those crafts and those skills

[00:10:06] because we're already seeing in other parts of Asia and also here in Europe

[00:10:12] that these skilled people are disappearing and those skills are not being followed on

[00:10:18] and they're not being saved and okay do we take it cold heartedly and say well it's the evolution

[00:10:27] and this is how we are working and living nowadays so we have to accept it or

[00:10:33] is there a way that it can be stored and kept for records because I think that's also important

[00:10:39] yet I still feel that the hand you know when we're it's okay to sit and punch the

[00:10:47] azure tea or the acuity keyboard but when you're weaving and when you're spinning or

[00:10:54] when you're knitting or when you're doing anything with your hands tangibly

[00:10:59] you know you are also helping hand-eye coordination you're also helping your

[00:11:05] your mental health and well-being as well so I think if we lose some of these skills

[00:11:11] where you are needing the hands to use will be disappointing because I do see

[00:11:19] that the coordination is also disappearing with younger children as well

[00:11:24] I'm referring back to when I used to be a scout leader and children could not bounce balls

[00:11:32] they did not know how to bounce a ball from left to right hand so

[00:11:37] because they're so used to punching you know buttons on on computers and things I'm going

[00:11:42] off tangent here but to me you know it is it it's key to keep these skills and to embody them because

[00:11:52] we will need them in future generations as well especially if resources are disappearing as well

[00:11:59] maybe Joe what's your thoughts well I love your tangent lyrian I'm going to take it and run

[00:12:05] with it I know we keep talking about education and I'm passionate that we're going to do something at

[00:12:10] some point but I was talking about school and they had a big textile department and they were actually

[00:12:16] saying actually from the past few years what would take them one lesson now is taking them three

[00:12:21] or four so for example quilting the children are really struggling aim with the hand-eye

[00:12:26] coordination but be with the idea that it's not perfect first time and that they have to

[00:12:31] iterate almost they want to be taught something and kind of given the answer and I thought that was

[00:12:38] really interesting and one of the books that always keeps coming back to me is called expert

[00:12:43] and it interviews a tailor and it interviews a surgeon and it talks about the process of being

[00:12:48] an expert but the surgeon basically says you know the skills needed to stitch up wounds

[00:12:54] are going because we don't have this hand-eye coordination you know we're not doing the

[00:12:59] same things as we were many years ago so very fascinated with that I think that might be one

[00:13:04] for season four and I read that we we take up but just to go back to Emma's point in terms of what

[00:13:10] are the key takeaways I was really inspired by Kavita's episode and how she talked about things

[00:13:18] like scale you know and almost we have this one model of growth and when we talk to companies

[00:13:26] about things it's always about how we're going to grow this product how are we going to scale it

[00:13:30] and I thought it was interesting her take on it actually we need to reconsider so much of what

[00:13:36] we're doing and you know I'm so passionate about circular economy and we do need to kind of throw

[00:13:41] out a lot of the rule book in terms of how we built our growth economies so I think that's

[00:13:46] really interesting to hear these perspectives and hear other ways of doing things because you

[00:13:52] know if you end up starting a small brand it's always about how do you build that brand

[00:13:56] and I think actually it should be more about how much good that brand can do

[00:14:00] so you know I work with a lot of corporates and I'm kind of saying well what about your

[00:14:04] environmental profit and loss how do you consider value you know there's other ways to consider

[00:14:08] value and I think that really struck a chord with the Kavita episode because I felt that was

[00:14:14] also what she was saying. The other thing for me with second hand with Gemma you know that

[00:14:21] I'm passionate about circular business models second hand being one of them but also what that

[00:14:27] brought home to me was is it really replacing the amount of new clothes that we're buying

[00:14:32] and I've found myself going down a vintage hole lately where I am buying too many things from

[00:14:37] vintage and it's become like one of my social media apps that I will just go on every day

[00:14:42] and take a look so yes I feel I'm being really good because I'm not buying new clothes

[00:14:48] but I'm still consuming more because I wouldn't be buying you know four new items a month but I'm

[00:14:53] buying it because I think well it's second hand I can give those a new home but then I kind of say

[00:14:59] am I just part of a problem you know then because then you get too many clothes it's stored waste

[00:15:04] so I was interested to hear from her that actually you know second hand might not be

[00:15:09] this solution because is it really replacing consumerism and actually it's just encouraging

[00:15:16] us to consume and buy more in some ways so really interested to hear what happens through the course

[00:15:22] of her research and then quite a personal one for you Emma is that I've really enjoyed listening

[00:15:28] to your personal journey through the people that you've interviewed because in the podcast I can

[00:15:35] hear you reflect you know and I think in Kavita's episode you said you know when you look

[00:15:40] back on the questions now that you'd asked her through the course that conversations you

[00:15:44] realise the bias that you'd written those questions with and I think that's so interesting

[00:15:51] you know how through these conversations we are learning and growing and developing

[00:15:56] and seeing those different perspectives and actually you know sometimes you can not be

[00:16:02] have blinders on but you know you're in an echo chamber of your own knowledge sometimes

[00:16:07] and it's really good for somebody to come and say no what about this you know and a really

[00:16:11] kind of challenge perspective so that's why I've enjoyed these episodes because not only did I find

[00:16:17] them fascinating you know I was listening to one last night and just thinking oh this is brilliant

[00:16:22] but also to hear personally as a friend how that has helped you grow so those are by

[00:16:28] been my key takeaways I don't know if you got any thoughts on that Emma?

[00:16:32] Yeah so many I loved what you just mentioned about vintage and the second hand

[00:16:42] resale market is absolutely fascinating but what fascinated me as well was the ideology of us

[00:16:47] still seeking out that bargain still seeking out something that you know is is cheap for us to

[00:16:55] be able to buy and that boasting of finding something of x y and z on this platform and

[00:17:00] it's only been like five or six quick because that's exactly the same that I what I do at the

[00:17:04] moment is I especially my daughter a lot of her wardrobe is from vintage and I'm always saying

[00:17:10] to friends like this is this is the way forward this is where you need to be buying because it

[00:17:13] just it's cheap and you get decent stuff on it and it's better than buying from and putting

[00:17:18] our money in x y and z pocket but yeah no it's interesting so that kind of those

[00:17:24] those habits we have formed about seeking out bargains and being purpose driven as well that's

[00:17:31] a really interesting conversation I think that's yeah she should be a guest on again to see what

[00:17:40] her research has shown and brought to the table because that is fascinating but yeah I think

[00:17:45] Kavita's conversation for me was very self-exploratory as well as I was going through and looking at my

[00:17:53] questions at the end I was like oh my goodness I am coming from this point of view I am coming from

[00:18:01] you know how do how do businesses grow and scale through craft or through artisan productions

[00:18:08] you know it's the that kind of capitalist bigger bigger bigger is is better ideology so she

[00:18:16] threw me challenge to me and even you know even when we wrapped up the episode it stayed with

[00:18:22] me for days that conversation and days and I think it's one of those conversations that you can

[00:18:27] always go back to and you'll find something else in it that will challenge you she's

[00:18:33] a fascinating woman and I love the way she talks about her her career as her life journey and her

[00:18:41] life story with textiles and artisans I think that's so beautiful but yeah her views on industrialization

[00:18:49] and scale really kind of you know they stop you in your tracks and you think well how can I grow

[00:18:55] a business then what can how can we you know we there's there's there's purpose yes and there's our

[00:19:01] motivation for doing something for humanity and nature hopefully yes and that's why I really love

[00:19:07] having people on these conversations but we've also got to talk about the fact that you know

[00:19:11] is there's something else we want from it as well like money and a lifestyle change or you know

[00:19:17] how do we evolve through that lens of which is a kind of capitalist lens in in in terms of

[00:19:24] the society we live in so I think there's a lot to be dug deeper on that and I love Farrah's episode

[00:19:36] I loved meeting her at London Craft Week and the conversation we had that really was

[00:19:42] not just textiles being tangible but being incredibly spiritual as well and that for me

[00:19:49] was such a beautiful conversation and for a 25 year old woman she has incredible wisdom

[00:19:56] incredible wisdom and I'm just sitting there going wow at 25 I was like what am I wearing to go clubbing

[00:20:02] on Saturday kind of thing and it's just like you know it's just this really unbelievable woman is

[00:20:09] you know at that age is talking with with such integrity and just you know and respect and

[00:20:18] passion and I love that episode for me what I really loved was the fact that they when you talk

[00:20:24] about crafts not being passed down through generations but being a significant problem

[00:20:29] they're doing that they're showing the daughters of the mothers and the aunts that actually there

[00:20:36] is a commercial aspect to it that is going to support them economically as well and so

[00:20:44] therefore the daughters are seeing it and some of them are taking up those skills which is just

[00:20:50] which just you know filled my heart and yeah I just thought that was incredible as well and

[00:20:57] really enjoyed the conversations with her as well so you know again it's been the most brilliant

[00:21:03] learning reflective experience and it's very motivational as well and so onwards and upwards

[00:21:08] for season four just going into season four now who are you looking at bringing in have you all got

[00:21:18] any ideas yet what sorts of conversations we're going to be having um Koshy I'm going to pass over

[00:21:24] to you I hope season four is packed with bite size current news from the fashion and textiles

[00:21:31] industry I would love to cover what's happening with the implications of AI metaverse and

[00:21:39] technological advancement in the industry and how it's being used or abused well I am super

[00:21:46] excited about season four we've talked about trying a new format so that we will each record

[00:21:52] an episode each week per month so that there will be four new episodes every month so that's

[00:21:58] quite exciting I am looking forward to just generally having more chats with you guys I think

[00:22:04] we have had so many great guests on but I'm also really interested to hear what everybody's doing

[00:22:10] so I think there'll be a lot more kind of one-to-ones with us as a group um I'm also keen

[00:22:17] to discuss some like key issues you know there's certain things that I am seeing right now and I

[00:22:22] just feel like you know I'd want that discussion a little bit like we've done with AI but I'm

[00:22:27] sure there's many other product categories you know I'm doing a lot in sports apparel and there's

[00:22:33] so much happening there so I think that will be a focus for me in season four I'm also really excited

[00:22:39] to have more guests on some of which I don't know personally but also to really kind of connect

[00:22:46] with people who I do know you know and get them having the discussions you know on a public

[00:22:52] platform and share their knowledge so I think it's going to be quite varied in terms of the

[00:22:56] next season it's obviously going to have a lot more content because we're going to be recording

[00:23:01] multiple episodes every month and yeah just very keen to keep the conversation very current because

[00:23:10] I think there's so many changes happening in the industry right now you know I'm working a lot

[00:23:14] with legislation that is ever-evolving we have AI you know but then also the parallel to that

[00:23:21] is what is happening with things like craft and how do we support those industries so I think

[00:23:26] it's going to be a melting pot of amazingness that is my takeaway for season four so now we

[00:23:33] I'm going to pass on to you yeah season four is exciting I've been a little quiet for season three

[00:23:39] so you'll obviously hear a bit more from guests that I'm willing to connect with a few authors

[00:23:49] also champion a few Belgium brands that are doing some really interesting things

[00:23:55] around clothing for people who have disabilities and how seams and labels and clothing can have

[00:24:07] impacts as well as a really interesting leather producer I will take you up Joe on the education

[00:24:16] because we do need to look at that because to me I'm just seeing it more and more with people

[00:24:23] that I'm talking a with the industry but also with the within the school side that you know

[00:24:30] people expect to know what 600 grams of fabric is or what 2000 kilos of wool creates

[00:24:40] I would love to share my woolly story it was something that we were going to do but

[00:24:47] time just sort of passed by for this season because things are progressing slowly but surely

[00:24:57] and yeah to to reconnect with you three lovely ladies as well because I have been missed and

[00:25:06] it would be lovely to even do maybe a live recording where we could all get each other

[00:25:12] under the same roof because I still haven't met you in person I know you've met some each

[00:25:19] each other in persons but I've not met any of you in person and this is you know coming on to be

[00:25:25] what the third or the fourth year so I think that's my mission over the next coming months as

[00:25:32] well so big hugs to everyone who has been listening and joining and a big big thank you

[00:25:39] to our wonderful editor and co-chair Koshi and also to Joe and Emma as well so humble thanks to

[00:25:50] everyone involved and also to our guests because you are amazing and keep on doing what you're doing

[00:25:56] thank you Emma I'll hand it over to you thank you to you thank you to our guests

[00:26:02] thank you to everyone listening thanks to Koshi for being our producer and also managing our

[00:26:08] social account it's really nice to get feedback I've had some lovely feedback this season on

[00:26:15] Instagram for some people that have been listening in and it's good to kind of encourage those

[00:26:21] conversations and continue those conversations I think with the next season and our new format

[00:26:26] it's going to kind of you know have that organic growth that this has had since the first

[00:26:32] season which is amazing so I'm also really excited and thank you all so so much