From Sheep and Geese Chats to an Innovative Circular Business: The Wool Journey with Ngaire Takano.

[00:00:00] Hello and welcome to Fashion- Not all as it seams.

[00:00:05] I'd normally say we're going into season four now but the structure of the podcast is changing slightly so it's going to be ongoing.

[00:00:14] You're going to be hearing from us every week with a guest, a conversation, a topic.

[00:00:20] Of course we'll have breaks every now and then but we want to continue this work, continue the conversations

[00:00:27] and just keep them going because we think they are really, really powerful.

[00:00:32] So I'm really happy today to be kicking off this new season that we're all in.

[00:00:41] I have been wanting to interview this guest for so long now and she's been ignoring me completely

[00:00:49] but she is an absolute force of nature. She's the most incredible woman.

[00:00:55] We first connected during Covid when we were recording our clubhouse

[00:01:03] and then we decided that she had to be part of the Fashion- Not all as it seams team because she's just so amazing.

[00:01:10] And when I did my research on her and I looked at her bio, it stands out for so, so many reasons.

[00:01:20] She's done so many things during her career.

[00:01:24] Even she couldn't describe her bio really simply for us all because she's just so phenomenal and has done so many things.

[00:01:31] So today I am really, really happy to be interviewing our very own Nairi Takano.

[00:01:38] Nairi, beyond excited for today's conversation. How are you?

[00:01:45] I don't know where to start actually. You've beefed me up so much and I'm not used to it.

[00:01:53] It's like can I just stay underneath a laptop please?

[00:01:56] No, I am.

[00:01:57] Now I'm good and this has been my highlight of the week.

[00:02:02] I will say A, not just being able to get back, wearing the boots of being a podcaster but also talking to you, Emma.

[00:02:11] It's always a fun, exciting, laughable, crazy time but at the same time we do hit topics that are important to be spoken about.

[00:02:22] And I have to give a big thank you also to our fabulous, fabulous, fabulous editor and that's Koshi who's also part of our team.

[00:02:34] She's sat there quiet. We should reverse roles Koshi but today I'm very grateful and humbled being invited as a guest so thank you.

[00:02:45] You know when I look at your, I did go back and do some research and I dive back into your bio Nairi and we're going to touch upon what you're doing now.

[00:02:54] But I just want to share with the listeners who might not know your journey.

[00:03:01] You really were a kind of self starter from the age of like 10 years old.

[00:03:12] There was an inner activist in you from a really, really young age.

[00:03:17] At 15 you worked on merino sheep farms.

[00:03:21] At 16 you started your own business, supplying restaurants with local or an organic green piece.

[00:03:28] Where did this come from? Where did this inner activist come from?

[00:03:33] I think for me it's always, I've always been inquisitive.

[00:03:37] So I wanted to know but the first thing that I campaigned about was about irradiated food and it's something that happens in the US where basically they irradiate the food to give it a longer shelf life.

[00:03:54] And this was, it was going to be set up in the city that I was living in Australia at the time and we didn't have the internet in the 80s.

[00:04:04] So I was just astounded and thinking here we go, we've got tomatoes that I picked today but if I irradiate them then they're going to be still alive and looking greeny red in six to eight weeks time.

[00:04:16] And I'm going, this doesn't sound right and something in me was just not sitting comfortably.

[00:04:21] So I started investigating and reading about it and being inquisitive like I was.

[00:04:29] And that sort of was the starting point and then there was campaigning against deforestation.

[00:04:35] Then there was also the wailing.

[00:04:38] So I was active in terms of whale watching so we would sit on the edge of a cliff and watch the whales migrate and count them and monitor them.

[00:04:51] So I have done various activists, activities over the years to where when I was living in the UK I've dressed up as a penguin and gone down the northern line and knocked on a government door.

[00:05:07] And I won't say one thing because that will probably incriminate me but I've also dressed up as a cow as well and walked through Bournemouth.

[00:05:17] So there's been a few things that I've done so yes, bit mad.

[00:05:21] Yeah and your career has taken you also to Greenpeace and it's also taken you to Downing Street I understand.

[00:05:29] Downing Street or Greenpeace was me dressing up as a penguin and as a cow.

[00:05:36] But I also worked with within the headquarters in London.

[00:05:43] Downing Street was from when I was doing voluntary work for an organisation in the UK.

[00:05:55] And I was overseeing four projects around the UK.

[00:05:59] One was funnily enough in Brighton and it was getting young children out engaging, working with the environment.

[00:06:09] And so we were doing gardening activities and a lot of those children lived about say six miles away from the beach but some of them have never ever been to the beach before.

[00:06:21] Wow.

[00:06:22] And you know these times were sort of yeah this was in 2012, 13 or even a little bit earlier than that and to me it just did not make sense.

[00:06:34] So I gave a bit of a wacky insight to these projects and it was very honourable to have the opportunity to go and meet one of the Prime Ministers.

[00:06:46] I will say his handshake was not the most firm.

[00:06:51] Oh that's telling.

[00:06:54] It was very sort of limp.

[00:06:58] Oh no, that's rubbish.

[00:07:01] But hey ho it was lovely and I know dear Maggie Thatcher got a lot of slack and still continues to get a lot of slack.

[00:07:13] But I will say she was an incredible beautiful woman when some of the photos inside number 10 of her and of previous Prime Ministers were incredible and you think wow, she was just as a human being just as we are.

[00:07:31] And we forget that because they're Prime Ministers they should be also treated just like as humans as well just because they have a title.

[00:07:42] It doesn't mean that they're greater and better than us even though people want them to think it and they may think it.

[00:07:48] But they're just as human and they have an impact in what they're doing as well not as a PM but also as a human being.

[00:07:57] So it was a good eye opener to sort of see that little bit of the world and the building is gorgeous.

[00:08:08] But what goes on there must be a hell of a lot of secrets in that building as well.

[00:08:12] Yes, it's hilarious isn't it when you think about politics and everything that goes on behind the scenes but with the advent of the internet and social media and the likes of Twitter and things like that we are starting to see much more of what is truly going on behind the scenes and not all of it good obviously.

[00:08:36] But in grey, let's not digress. Let's get back to you.

[00:08:41] Tell me tell the listeners what's been going on with you for the last couple of years.

[00:08:47] Oh, the last couple of years I moved country, learnt a new language still learning a new language.

[00:08:57] I've moved to Belgium.

[00:08:59] Yes.

[00:09:00] The land of fries, chocolate and beer.

[00:09:03] Not all on one plate but some people possibly do.

[00:09:07] Absolutely.

[00:09:08] I've had my ups and downs living here.

[00:09:12] Yeah.

[00:09:13] Though I think what I'm working on now has helped me grounds myself probably more so in the last year.

[00:09:21] But there is still a bit of a battle and that battle is also being a foreigner here.

[00:09:28] Yeah, yeah no it's not easy is it?

[00:09:31] It isn't easy.

[00:09:32] Okay, this is the country and I'm sorry to say where I've had the most sort of pinpointed you are from another country foreigner.

[00:09:45] Yeah.

[00:09:46] Race has been highlighted and I've lived in Japan and I've lived in Germany.

[00:09:50] And those countries I didn't suffer the same as I have experienced here.

[00:09:56] But in saying that what I'm doing is making me love the place and the people that I'm connecting with is making me love the people that I'm connecting with and really appreciating things and just acknowledging that okay this is a lesson, this is me learning.

[00:10:18] But there is so much that I can take from this country as well as also give back to the country which is what I want to do.

[00:10:25] So in hindsight it is a positive move that has happened.

[00:10:34] But yeah, you know you try and settle in another country and I care have lived in others before but this has sort of been the most challenging.

[00:10:46] So yeah, but I will say it's a ultimately it's a positive move.

[00:10:53] I've worked as an employee, I've worked as a freelancer and now I've set up a company so and I said back in 2015 when I moved here I will never work within the fashion industry again because I just got tired.

[00:11:11] What are you doing now then?

[00:11:14] Yeah, well I'm working in the fashion industry in one aspect yet also jumping onto other industries as well.

[00:11:25] Yeah it's very multifaceted isn't it? Why don't you tell us a bit more about the company you've established and what it is you are doing?

[00:11:33] Well I met a farmer two and a half years ago.

[00:11:39] Funnily enough he had six sheep so I won't really call him a farmer but he liked to feel that he was a farmer.

[00:11:49] And it was funnily enough opposite the English supermarket that's located here in Brussels.

[00:11:58] Funnily enough it's not really an English supermarket anymore, it's more Irish because that's Brexit.

[00:12:03] But anyway that's another conversation and I went over to the fence and started talking to the sheep and then I knew that he had some geese so I started talking to the geese like you do, completely bonkers.

[00:12:16] And he heard that they weren't quiet so he came out and he said you okay?

[00:12:21] And I said yes I'm just having a conversation with your geese like you do.

[00:12:26] And he said what happens to your wool? He goes I take it to the recycling centre and otherwise from there on it then gets burnt.

[00:12:40] And I knew of this problem already happening in the UK that wool was being incinerated whether on farmers lands or being recycled to the recycling centre.

[00:12:52] And that got me looking into other areas within Europe and it is a European wide problem.

[00:13:00] We have a glut of wool, yes we have a glut of wool that is not being used.

[00:13:07] So when he told me that it was like as if something went right through my chest.

[00:13:14] And I got really quite emotional about it as well because it was like why is this resource that we're not using being valued but at the same time being used?

[00:13:28] But it goes further down the chain which we'll probably touch on further in the conversation.

[00:13:35] And it was like right I got in the car and I said right I'm going to set up a mill and that's what I'm going to do.

[00:13:41] But you know in hindsight great ideas don't always come to plan because then you go okay well that's too costly you've got to find a location.

[00:13:54] But then I did a deeper dive and looked at the issues that were occurring.

[00:13:59] And I think one of the biggest areas when it comes to wool processing is the washing.

[00:14:06] And that's where I have focused so officially I have set up a wool scouring mill.

[00:14:14] Okay.

[00:14:15] And that's me.

[00:14:17] Amazing.

[00:14:18] But going from having this idea to actually setting up the mill you've missed out a whole journey because I know you've had numerous challenges.

[00:14:27] You've talked and we've talked about the funding of it.

[00:14:30] The challenges of getting funding of it.

[00:14:33] So fill in the gaps there.

[00:14:36] Yes still having issues with funding.

[00:14:40] But that is why I have taken on some freelance work to assist in paying.

[00:14:49] So in the last two and a half years I have mapped out the whole process from sheep dog sheep farmer sheep right through to finished item within the fashion industry and other sectors.

[00:15:02] I've looked at the loopholes and the hurdles where there are problems and it is the washing of the wall.

[00:15:09] And then I've looked at the sheep as a whole because at the moment we only look at a part of the sheep.

[00:15:15] We only take part of that wall and we use that the rest of it is thrown away.

[00:15:20] So when you take, when wool goes to a processing mill whether it is being washed or or scalloured or carded you're going to lose up to anything of half percent of that.

[00:15:34] So 50% of it.

[00:15:36] So if you take 10 kilos of wool and you give it to me you will get back at least eight kilos back.

[00:15:43] If you take it to a traditional mill you'll only get four and a half to five kilos back.

[00:15:48] Wow.

[00:15:49] So you're already have got an item that is a waste item yet on top of that you've got a waste item within a waste item if that makes sense.

[00:15:58] Yeah, my God.

[00:16:00] So I then have developed five different methods of cleaning the wool using completely circular methods because the biggest problem with the wool washing at the moment is that we've been doing it for centuries and it does work.

[00:16:17] Yet we're using a lot of water and we're using a lot of energy and water is not as abundant as it has been.

[00:16:28] It comes also with the cost factor, same with electricity and gas and heating and mills in the UK last year had to increase their prices threefold within six months because of the ongoing changes within the electricity and the gas prices.

[00:16:45] So when you think that okay I've just dropped off a couple of tons of wool to get cleaned your pricing is always going to be was jumping up and up and up.

[00:16:55] So therefore it was making wool sort of not realistic in terms of washing it and that's why we also have a glut but there's many other issues why.

[00:17:06] So for me, I have worked with two universities here in Belgium they have developed or they have undertaken the process that I have done.

[00:17:16] And they have given it a tick of approval and said yes it is proof of concept. Yes it is scalable because that's one thing when you speak to funders and you speak to businesses is scalability scalability.

[00:17:31] Yet in real world scalability is not the way really to be looking for a business. Yes you need to be more conscious in the way that you produce but at the same time you need to ensure that you can keep building but not at scaling and that is I think the difference

[00:17:51] and that's where there has to be a real change within the business mindset of scalability versus actually building a business and growing a business.

[00:18:01] You know for me scalability is I can't do it yet I want to be employing people in two or three years time. Yeah, and I want to be having you know 500 square meters of a building where I'm actually having more coming in being processed and going out and being used.

[00:18:17] So that is the vision. People get the vision but it is does always come back to scalability. So there that has been a hurdle to get people to understand that. Yeah, because if you are looking at a circular methodology you're looking at a circular business or a donut style

[00:18:37] business scalability don't doesn't come into it. You are ideally looking at the resources and seeing how you can reuse them. And then reuse them again. And with all you can.

[00:18:52] And also with the byproducts of all you can as well. You know we forget lanolin is a brilliant material for beauty sectors for agricultural sectors for automobile sectors for any building structure as well.

[00:19:10] It's a great grease. You know we used to use it in cosmetics and shampoo but we don't because combination of vegan and cruelty to animals but at the same time also palm oil is as much cheaper.

[00:19:25] Yes. So it has replaced that yet there are brands that are returning back and needing it and seeing that there is a use because it's great my hands have been super soft for the last two and a half years.

[00:19:41] Because of all the washing of the wall and the processing and the handling it is it's lovely and it's really nice to sort of handle and it's great for skin problems as well. So anyway I digress.

[00:19:57] No it's amazing because you just really what I love about you Nairie is your conviction behind what it is you want to do and this really deep sense of not just responsibility but you care so very deeply about what you're doing as well.

[00:20:15] And that's why I think that whatever you turn your hands to you will make it work and you make it work in this really holistic way as well that I think you've touched upon and that's really really important.

[00:20:29] So where exactly are you now with the business? What are the next steps?

[00:20:33] Well I was accepted on an accelerator program last September which is coming to the end which has been absolutely brilliant. I will give it a plug it is started at CarBC. It's a Belgian program.

[00:20:47] CarBC is a bank here but you don't get funding but you get a hell of a lot of support and that comes with mentoring coaching training advice. They push you they push you so but they push you for the reason because they want to see you achieve and deliver.

[00:21:04] So I will be graduating in October sadly to say I have actually joked and said I'm going to set up another business because I don't want to leave start up.

[00:21:14] I started at CarBC but no I have to focus on mobile.

[00:21:17] This time last year I did get some money from the bank to buy a carding machine but subsequently in the last year I have been able to buy now two carding machines, a felting machine and I'm still working at home but I'm still respecting it.

[00:21:47] I'm still loving and appreciating that even though it drives myself and my partner Potti because the house has got multiple levels and we have got wool on every level.

[00:22:00] I love it.

[00:22:02] And in every stage so some of it is carded you know I will show you but you will see over there is a felt machine.

[00:22:11] Oh my goodness.

[00:22:13] Yes felt machine.

[00:22:15] So it's not just a home?

[00:22:17] It's a working business as well.

[00:22:22] So that's where I am.

[00:22:25] I have had various opportunities to present what I'm doing to businesses.

[00:22:32] I'm now speaking internationally.

[00:22:36] I have actually received some funding from the Belgium government to travel to various countries to share what I have done with the processing and the washing of the wool because what's different for me is I use less water, less energy.

[00:22:55] I look at the whole fleece.

[00:22:57] I use no chemicals in the processing whatsoever but I can also take from what I'm washing the wool and use that as well into another product too.

[00:23:09] So there is multiple diversions just from taking the wool and there are people in Scotland that are interested in what I'm doing.

[00:23:18] There's people in Germany interested in what I'm doing.

[00:23:21] People in France are interested in what I'm doing.

[00:23:23] So this is slowly growing and it's only been in the last sort of two months or so that this bubble has sort of not popped but it's growing.

[00:23:35] And I say that's a combination of perseverance as well as also again I have to say a plug is working with and being part of the accelerator program I started at Carbisi.

[00:23:50] It's so important to get the support and the mentorship and I thought yes I could do it on my own but I realise now that I can't.

[00:24:00] But also connecting with people as well which is one thing that I love doing especially and that's talking with farmers.

[00:24:12] This time last week I was meeting a farmer.

[00:24:18] He has got farming in his blood.

[00:24:22] Previous generations have farmed.

[00:24:26] He's got milk sheep as well as land sheep so he actually creates and makes his own yoghurt and cheese and ice cream which he sells.

[00:24:35] He has not had to worm his sheep for the last two years.

[00:24:39] Now that is one problem that we have here in Belgium is that sheep and I'm not just saying it's a Belgian problem but we seem to overwhelm the sheep here.

[00:24:51] Which subsequently means that the sheep are building resistance to the medical or the medicine that they've been given which means that they have to do it more frequently at the same time.

[00:25:04] They have to continually change the medicine as well.

[00:25:07] This farmer that I met last week, he is looking at more of a regenerative type of farming.

[00:25:16] He's got seven different grasses that he actually grows which he then feeds his sheep and in the last two years since he's been doing this he's not had to worm his sheep.

[00:25:25] The quality of the wool you can tell the difference. It is stronger, it is brighter, it's not brittle and he gave me two different fleeces to test.

[00:25:41] Just by me handling it and testing it I knew the difference between them.

[00:25:48] These are people that should be highlighted and celebrated because it's not what I'm doing, it's also what they're doing.

[00:25:57] What I say to people is if we have shitland we're going to have shit sheep and if we're going to have shit sheep we're going to have shit wool.

[00:26:07] But it's not just the wool, it's the lanolin, it's the meat and it's the milk.

[00:26:10] And sheep are so important for the land, for the maintenance of the land. They know where to walk, they know what to eat and they only take what they need.

[00:26:22] They don't overtake and if you farm them in the right way you have better quality of meat but you also have a better quality fleece which means therefore you don't need to eat and consume as much or you don't need to have as many sheep on the land as well.

[00:26:38] So it works hand in hand but we are so focused that sheep, oh well there's thousands of them on three square meters and it's impacting the land and the environment.

[00:26:52] And here in Belgium probably elsewhere as well in Europe is farmers are having to pay carbon emission tax on their sheep.

[00:27:02] Wow.

[00:27:04] But the thing is because the value of wool which is anything between 0.002 to 20 cents per kilo, this is per kilo, they're at a negative, continually at a negative.

[00:27:19] Which seems hugely unfair.

[00:27:21] Absolutely, absolutely and that's because we don't have enough processing outlets here in Europe.

[00:27:28] Right.

[00:27:29] We're not aligned to on sending it overseas.

[00:27:32] People have lost the interest in wool even though wool keeps us warm, keeps us cool, enables our body temperature to be kept at a level when we're sleeping.

[00:27:46] It's even great for blisters you know there's just so much potential with wool.

[00:27:54] You know you can actually have a slow cooker just using wool.

[00:27:58] You don't need to plug it into a socket.

[00:28:00] No way, how does that work?

[00:28:05] That's another story.

[00:28:07] Okay, it's a great thing though.

[00:28:09] It is and to me there is just so much that we can do with wool yet I still go back to we need to be respectful and celebrating the work of the sheep dogs.

[00:28:21] Because the sheep dogs do a hell of a lot of work.

[00:28:25] Excludes the profanities to you know in this recording I've sworn a bit and what have you.

[00:28:30] The sheep dogs are part of the puzzle, the farmers are a part of the puzzle, the sheep are part of the puzzle, the land is part of the puzzle.

[00:28:39] And that's where we forget we just go okay well it's wool that's fine but it's not.

[00:28:45] Yeah no absolutely it's an incredible ecosystem yet we as humans do have this hierarchical approach to everything and that is where we are divorced and disconnected from ourselves, each other, nature and animals as well.

[00:29:02] But what you're doing just and whilst I am you know I don't have the knowledge that you have what you are painting a picture of to me is this incredible system based on reciprocity.

[00:29:14] Which is just exactly what we need in this circular system that we need today for ourselves and for each other and for nature as well.

[00:29:24] Yeah isn't it so you're finishing the accelerator very soon you're going to be doing internationally who do you want to work with in your business.

[00:29:35] I want to work with farmers at the same time I want to work with farmers who respect their land and appreciate the land.

[00:29:45] As well as also their sheep and sheep dogs that's also very important.

[00:29:50] Yes but I am looking at working with people from the automobile sector people from the fashion industry people from the beauty sector because I now can take Lanolin from the wool that I'm processing.

[00:30:06] So that is a byproduct that can be used.

[00:30:09] I'm working already with interior designers and fashion designers who are using the wool to felt to make beautiful carpets and hanging rugs and so forth.

[00:30:22] Very interesting in working also with packaging companies because wool is great as I said that keeps and monitors the temperature so if you're shipping your cold stuff or your hot stuff.

[00:30:33] You can do that with wool there are British companies already that are doing wall packaging for shipping.

[00:30:41] There's also Eastern European company that's doing great stuff with with wool and they've actually instead of the plastic bubble wrap they've actually made a wool felted bubble wrap.

[00:30:51] Wow.

[00:30:52] So okay you don't get the bubbles but you get the little mounds on the on the felted wool.

[00:30:58] And it's just brilliant so and the building industry.

[00:31:03] Okay yes it's great for insulation but I have done a cheeky test in terms of making a brick with mud and wool and so far it's standing up so there are possibilities.

[00:31:17] It's nothing you say ever surprises me.

[00:31:21] An inventor as well aren't you.

[00:31:24] Yeah I'm such an incredible multi functional product.

[00:31:29] It is multi dimensional in so many ways.

[00:31:33] Yeah yeah why have we not discovered this before.

[00:31:38] We have but we've just lost disconnection and then we've lost interest and then other materials have come and replaced it because they're cheaper.

[00:31:46] As well as also they're easy but then we haven't jumped 15 years ahead and thought okay what are the ramifications of using these materials.

[00:31:57] And that's the problem.

[00:32:00] I think also people are continually looking at pricing and costs and yes that is part of running a business as well as also ensuring that consumers get the best price.

[00:32:12] But we all have to have a piece in the puzzle.

[00:32:17] For me when I source my wool at the moment I'm very humble that farmers are giving their wool to me.

[00:32:24] They don't want anything from it but there are farmers that I am buying the wool.

[00:32:28] But next season I will be paying them but it won't just be a one off payment.

[00:32:33] I will be paying them within and above the 50 cents per kilo which is the maximum that farmers are getting at the moment.

[00:32:43] So I'll be paying them around 50 to 60 cents per kilo.

[00:32:47] This is Euro cents.

[00:32:49] So at the same time when I then sell it I will then make sure that I take a percentage of that and then also give that back to the farmer as well.

[00:32:57] Because to me they should be paid along the chain of when that wool is used.

[00:33:04] Because therefore it gives them that additional income.

[00:33:09] So I buy it then I give them a percentage when I have sold it.

[00:33:13] Hopefully when that person has sold it and they return it back to me whether I'm going to include a recycling of the wool then I will then also pay a dividend back to the farmer as well.

[00:33:24] Because it doesn't just stop at one single transaction.

[00:33:30] It needs to be an ongoing transaction because farmers costs are increasing they're being pressured.

[00:33:36] For a farmer who has 200 sheep he has to pay 6000 euros a year for his sheep for carbon emissions that they're outputting.

[00:33:45] Yet he doesn't know that he could be carbon sequesting.

[00:33:48] He could be taking that carbon back and actually earning some money back.

[00:33:53] That is incredible.

[00:33:55] So yeah there is a lot to do.

[00:33:59] I can't do it on my own.

[00:34:02] If there's people out there that want to help please do get in touch.

[00:34:08] Because to me it's not just me and it isn't me it's the sheep it's the land.

[00:34:14] It's ensuring that we continue to work with them.

[00:34:20] To me I was shocked to hear that Apple is stopping using leather.

[00:34:24] Okay that's a hot topic in their products basically they're what is it they're leather cases then they're stopping it.

[00:34:33] Yeah leather is a byproduct.

[00:34:36] Again it is another topic of conversation at some point within the podcast I think.

[00:34:44] But what's going to happen to all the leather that's been processed.

[00:34:48] And I know there are pros and cons of you know why people don't want to eat meat and consume because of the carbon emissions that are emitted in and maybe the animal welfare.

[00:35:03] But when I saw those sheep at the farmer last week they were happy they had beautiful big ears and we have to share sheep.

[00:35:11] If we don't share them they die.

[00:35:14] We have as humans whether you look at it in a positive or a negative we've created sheep that are reliant upon us to share.

[00:35:22] And if you have a good shearer then the sheep are not harmed.

[00:35:26] If anything one shearer has said to me that it's like a dance with the sheep.

[00:35:32] And if you are respectful of the sheep the sheep remember that as well.

[00:35:37] You know they remember a human face for up to seven years.

[00:35:42] Wow.

[00:35:44] So they're not dumb.

[00:35:46] No that is nighy I'm so in awe of you and your drive and passion and motivation for everything you do for the animals for the farmers or nature as well.

[00:35:58] And I can hear it in everything that you have said and I love the fact that what started with a conversation with geese and a conversation with a farmer is now at this stage of you know what is going to be not just you know

[00:36:17] and the most incredibly beautiful holistic business that is really conscious is really considered and has so much potential for good.

[00:36:30] And I am so happy you came on to talk to me about this today and to share all of this incredibleness that you're doing with the listeners.

[00:36:42] Thank you so much for your time.

[00:36:45] The conversation has been amazing I'm so grateful to you.

[00:36:49] If there is anything you want to share before we wrap up over to you.

[00:36:55] Loveful.

[00:36:57] Love will.

[00:36:59] Love our farmers.

[00:37:01] Yes.

[00:37:03] We are reliant upon them and we need to be supporting them more than we do.

[00:37:07] Yeah absolutely.

[00:37:08] Whether you are vegan, vegetarian or meat eater you need to be going out there and showing some love to the farmers.

[00:37:19] Yeah and you've touched upon you know the very important need for education behind this as well that there is.

[00:37:26] There is you know there is so much behind sharing sheep as well.

[00:37:29] Yeah.

[00:37:31] And multi faceted conversation and one that I know we're going to have again and again with you because now that we have this podcast we can keep having these conversations with you and we can bring the education into the forefront of our discussions as well.

[00:37:45] Nairi thank you so much for joining us today I always love talking to you it's just been wonderful thank you.

[00:37:53] Thank you no thank you Emery it's been a pleasure highly humbled.

[00:37:56] And all of the details will be in the show notes for everyone to be able to connect with you and what you're doing.

[00:38:02] Super thank you.

[00:38:04] Thank you.