Lost Sopris with author Genevieve Faoro-Johannsen Pt 2

[00:00:00] Welcome back to Crime Capsule. I'm your host Benjamin Morris. This week we are continuing

[00:00:12] our conversation with Genevieve Faro Jahanson, co-author of Lost Soprice, published by

[00:00:19] the History Press. If you missed the first part of our interview be sure to look it up wherever

[00:00:24] you get your podcasts. Thanks as always for listening. Let's dive back in. Every good story needs a villain,

[00:00:35] though. And we do need to turn to the villain of this particular story, right? I mean you had us all

[00:00:45] American childhood and it just sounds totally glorious but little did you know that changes were coming

[00:00:53] and they were coming in the 60s and in the 70s. So I wanted to ask who in this account is

[00:01:03] the villain? As we start to turn to the reasons for the end of this city there are a lot of factors

[00:01:12] that we're feeding into it, but who's the antagonist here? Is it industry? Is it over exploitation

[00:01:20] of the minds? Is it scarcity? Is it the railroads themselves? Is it the purgatoire river?

[00:01:26] Is it bad engineering? Who's who's the villain here? It was a variety of things. The coal industry

[00:01:32] was fading, the mines were closing but the river kept causing damage and you've ridden trains

[00:01:38] perhaps. They build the trains right along the river banks because it's beautiful and it's

[00:01:43] flat and it's so of course when the river floods it takes out the train track and it stops

[00:01:50] transportation and it impacts everything and everyone along the way. There were several floods

[00:01:58] that began in the 1800s, probably the most significant one. A recorded history was 1904

[00:02:06] and it wiped out, I think all of the bridges on the purgatory going through Trinidad

[00:02:14] and when the purgatory flowed into the Arkansas then it added too much water to the Arkansas

[00:02:21] and created flooding along the Arkansas east into Kansas and stranded trains there as well.

[00:02:27] So there was this need but in 1936 the Army Corps of Engineers was given authority over rivers.

[00:02:36] And so there's an article that's in 1937 where they sent out the first group of engineers to look

[00:02:41] for places to build this dam. And so we always heard growing up being born in the 50s,

[00:02:51] the dams coming, the dams coming but nobody knew just when because it hadn't been funded yet

[00:02:56] but the actual impetus to create a dam in reservoir began back as early as 1937 and in the book

[00:03:03] there is a timeline of this being passed or that being passed the Harbor Act because originally

[00:03:11] Eisenhower had vetoed something that would have funded it and then it was made, it was presented

[00:03:18] again in a different format and it passed and then it all became part of a harbor's

[00:03:24] rivers and harbors act and was actually funded at that point in time. So the river itself

[00:03:32] could have been blocked anywhere else up other canyons and so on and we're not sure exactly why

[00:03:39] Soapis was the ultimate place to do that because that will always be a debatable issue

[00:03:45] but for whatever reason that's what they chose. Yeah and as I was reading your account,

[00:03:51] I mean it kind of regularly comes up that it's too simple to say that just one factor was

[00:04:00] the cause of the dam and dams are enormously complex things in order to build, not just the

[00:04:08] engineering but the permitting and the legislation surrounding them and stakeholders.

[00:04:13] It's just there may not be a more complicated project, less perhaps nuclear reactors I'm not sure

[00:04:21] but it is fascinating to see what the counterfactual histories could have been there had a different

[00:04:28] location been chosen. What was so as you said growing up in the 50s, you heard that the dam was

[00:04:35] coming, the dam was coming and finally the pieces begin to fall into place for it to actually

[00:04:42] sort of take shape. What was the response from the town's vote there? I mean was it sort of resignation?

[00:04:50] Was it anger? Was it denial? Was it did they sort of organize to try to actually stop it or have

[00:04:57] it done elsewhere or did they realize we can't actually fight this and we need to start preparing

[00:05:04] for what's next? Yeah, we're not the we're going to keep this from happening at that point.

[00:05:10] They were accepting the fact that it was going to happen because they kept getting these

[00:05:14] updates on it but there was definite remorse and in fact in one of our interviews for the

[00:05:23] documentary, Bernie Morgan says his mother was actually physically ill because she had grown up in this

[00:05:31] area. She had sister-in-laws and sisters that she was able to see every day they were able to have

[00:05:37] Sunday dinners together and suddenly they were going to have to be dispersed throughout an area

[00:05:43] and so we looked at a lot of houses for my grandparents not for ourselves,

[00:05:48] in Trinidad and what do you think of that? What do you think of that?

[00:05:53] And so that was one of the things that some people wanted to stay local. They wanted to at least go

[00:05:57] to the same church as their friends still did and still have contact with them. We moved in 62

[00:06:04] because they were thinking about closing down the high school component because Lincoln's school

[00:06:09] was K through 12 and so they were thinking of closing down the high school and sending the kids on

[00:06:15] over to Trinidad and the letter simply states that we will not be offering any contracts so

[00:06:21] we had no choice. There were three of us under six and then my dad was teaching my mom wasn't so

[00:06:28] we moved to Pueblo at that time but we were there one weekend a month at least holidays

[00:06:35] and seasonally in the summertime and because Monument likes the best fishing spot

[00:06:41] up in Stonewall I mean why go anywhere else when you got Monument like to go too and so

[00:06:48] so you know that was and as people for example Aldo Seabent saw an opportunity when the Air Force

[00:06:55] Academy opened up there was a need for labors there and the men all had skills and carpentry

[00:07:02] and other works and so we lost that family at that point in time. People had started to see the

[00:07:10] riding on the wall people had started to make other plans my grandparents were married at the same

[00:07:17] time as Victor and Mary Vergoni and then they moved to Chicago where there were I think for other

[00:07:23] family members as well but they always stayed in touch but that was very early on it was before

[00:07:29] the 1940s when they had chosen to read the writing and move to another location so it slowly emptied

[00:07:37] out and those new generations realized that there really wasn't anything for them to come back to

[00:07:41] unless you were a teacher and our teachers did come back. John Seabent and Dominic and Cheety were

[00:07:48] lifelong friends they went to Colorado's Teachers College in Greeley together. John came back and taught

[00:07:56] at the high school that he just graduated from five years ago Dominic I think started out in the

[00:08:01] Trinidad they both ended up in the Colorado spring system Ron Seabent who graduated later was one of

[00:08:08] the last people to teach at that school before it was closed down they had such a love for this town

[00:08:13] that it's like they probably weren't making anywhere near what they could have made if they'd just

[00:08:17] gone to a big district immediately but they didn't want to do that they wanted to be home again.

[00:08:22] You know it's funny Genevieve as I hear you describe this you know for me an outsider looking

[00:08:28] at this particular historical case you know I think of it in terms of you know like almost the macro

[00:08:37] terms you know the industry and the infrastructure and kind of okay what were the environmental

[00:08:42] necessities and that sort of thing. And I just love the way that you your view on it is so granular

[00:08:49] it's in its terms of individual people and families and the folks that grew up with on the same

[00:08:54] block you know we don't often talk in American history about the end of a place you know because

[00:09:01] we don't like to think that they're going to have ends right we kind of imagine things are

[00:09:04] going to go on forever and ever. And so when you have an instance like this I really appreciate

[00:09:11] the way that you view this almost like squarely on the ground you know what I mean like your

[00:09:18] feet are on the ground and you were looking around at your neighbors you know I'm looking at it

[00:09:23] from the position of birds IV on you know dot on a map but you have the exact opposite perspective

[00:09:29] and I really value that. You know these are people that again they took that friendship with them

[00:09:35] and when we went to Pueblo Catechism there was Bacetti's daughter who's the same age as I am there

[00:09:42] was mom's cousin Mary so you know that friendship just went wherever they went it continued to live

[00:09:49] so yes it's very personal because it was such an amazing community not only sopers but the entire

[00:09:57] structure of Colorado fuel and iron and Dr. Corwin I think has a lot of credit to be given on that

[00:10:03] initially because he started the sociology department back in you know 1901 there was the

[00:10:11] Camp and Plant magazine that was written in multiple languages it gave him hints on how to you

[00:10:16] know grow a garden and and how to do this and that and you could see like there one suggestion was

[00:10:23] how to beautify your home and it was grovines and you look at those canyon pictures that they have

[00:10:28] on file it still works and they grew vines and covered up that stucco exterior they had already completed

[00:10:37] the cottage in 1915 and there are all of these pictures that keep making their way to book covers

[00:10:44] of children dressed up as minors and laborers and so on and that was the cottage dedication apparently

[00:10:50] I found the newspaper article where the kids presented what they knew about this and what they

[00:10:55] learned about that and they were all dressed up and I want to ask you about the early 70s because

[00:11:00] that that really is the moment at which you know we put a period on the end of the sentence right

[00:11:07] and the story of sopers comes at least in one of its chapters to a close the residents were given

[00:11:13] a deadline of December 31st 1970 to be out of the flood zone the impact zone for where the dam

[00:11:22] would be creating Trinidad Lake and then the dam was finished in 1972 was anyone there to record

[00:11:34] the really the moment at which like the the waters began to overtake the town I'm sure they were

[00:11:42] the official dedication happened actually a few months after they'd begun to to flood the area

[00:11:49] but they hired people local people to help when they because they had to move railroad track

[00:11:56] higher up the hillside they had to move highway 12 to make room for that so for example

[00:12:03] Sam Terry Jr. was involved with that in in resculting the hill size and making it possible to move things

[00:12:11] around so they did hire a lot of local people who were there watching the entire thing and of course

[00:12:17] there were announcements in the newspaper the interesting part is call out a fuel an iron it was like

[00:12:23] well we own the water rights and it went to court and the court said you haven't used them in 45

[00:12:29] years we consider them abandoned wow whoa huge but you know you spend all this money building a dam

[00:12:36] and then you don't have any water to put it in so yeah so when you go there today what's

[00:12:44] what's left I mean what can you see anything you can well you can see the slak dumps and

[00:12:49] tell they reclaimed them no no you that's that's the that's the part those of us who were there

[00:12:58] have a sense the south side does have the slak dumps it does have LHS so Paul Fintine

[00:13:09] grew up just at the base of LHS and in 1952 he came home don't know if it was for my parents

[00:13:17] wedding or you just happened to come home that summer also but you know dad and Paul were so close

[00:13:23] and was up on the top of LHS and he took three photos and so if you put them together you get a

[00:13:30] panorama of it and so you can tell that if you just go straight down from those letters you're

[00:13:38] gonna end up pretty much in the Fintines back and then I have a photo because we were on Dexter

[00:13:43] Street as it came through Sopris and I'm 18 months old whatever in a little sunset in Moments

[00:13:51] nap this picture and not that far beyond me is the slak dumps well I think that that part is

[00:13:58] still not actually underwater that is the South Shore camping area you can't really see our houses

[00:14:05] there are a few coke ovens left but I don't want people to go claim bricks from

[00:14:09] no sure probably a little dangerous so but there was an entire bank there were over a hundred

[00:14:14] and you know I have other pictures that you and I don't know this very well but you know let's

[00:14:19] finish this role of film so we can get it developed right yes no I know I know I get that I'm old

[00:14:24] enough oh yeah yeah okay you and I and dad and mom and it was probably right after they're married

[00:14:30] in 52 53 and Adolf and Mary Ida Sivan had purchased the store from Pete Salvatore and his wife Hazel

[00:14:38] I believe and so it's after church there are the two sons and the daughter Juni and Ronald

[00:14:47] and and patty and so they are pictures with all the guys pictures of mom and Mary Ida and patty

[00:14:53] pictures and you can see the whole bank of coal of of coke ovens right behind them there so

[00:14:59] you know once you find those coke ovens you know where you're low where you are there aren't a

[00:15:04] lot of foundations but someone recently bought land see they take it away from us and they sell

[00:15:10] it to someone else and he has come up with he had questions about it because he felt that he had

[00:15:16] like the original mine footings and stuff and so I had responded to an email and said check with

[00:15:24] Steelworks Museum look at these maps and that will tell you what was where and so I think he may

[00:15:30] have done that but other people he's invited them to their property and a cousin Sal Margarano and

[00:15:37] others have gone out and shot footage there and so then people come and his wife is joined their

[00:15:43] Facebook page and I said I hope we're not imposing on you it's that oh no we love showing people

[00:15:49] the remnants and stuff because it really binds us to this area so I'm so grateful that they are

[00:15:55] so gracious to everyone because we are all curious in a sense but but we don't want to all go

[00:16:02] knocking on their door and go hey can I see you

[00:16:17] well it does raise the question especially last year when we had that historic drought I mean of course

[00:16:22] you know like mead at historic lows and you know you had bodies turning up in the lake basin right which

[00:16:29] were you know potentially from unsolved murders from Las Vegas from you know years past and

[00:16:38] all this archaeology is coming to light and so forth when when we had the historic drought

[00:16:43] last year did that actually affect like trended at as well whether they sort of new glimpses

[00:16:49] of sopris that were made possible I don't think so because it had been so full from like the snow

[00:16:56] melts and whatnot and when we were there in July of 2022 it was it was pretty full I don't think

[00:17:05] that we noticed a whole lot but of course I my grandparents home was sold to you know Army Corps

[00:17:10] of Engineers but then also I think some people bought reclamation rights and one of my cousins who

[00:17:16] lives in Janssen had said yeah we'd go up to St. Oprisome we got all the center blocks to do the

[00:17:20] basement thing with you know from the houses that were left and we took out windows and we did this

[00:17:25] and that so people were either reclaiming because they had purchased the property to reclaim or it

[00:17:30] had just been abandoned two interesting stories when you ask about planning ahead the

[00:17:37] Farias family so Nick Farias graduated in 1947 and went through Trinidad Junior College

[00:17:45] in building trades and then he became a faculty member well when he and when he married and

[00:17:51] when he built his home he knew it was going to have to move so he built it for that purpose and so

[00:17:56] they have pictures of the pink house moving down to Trinidad to the lot that he bought because he

[00:18:03] had planned ahead for that and by the same token the Ceramie family had their own home and

[00:18:11] the Fintine children all lived distantly and so Irene Ceramie was amazing at checking on you know

[00:18:19] the Fintine parents over and over again and when it came time to sell that house they sold it to

[00:18:24] Ceramie's who moved into that house while they distressed and no deconstructed their home to build

[00:18:30] their new home in Janssen so they recycled a lot of material so there was that kind of planning going

[00:18:36] on. The last question that I have for you just briefly is some lost cities are lost in gone forever

[00:18:45] last week when we were speaking to Marc Lardos about Indianola Texas I mean I think Marc would forgive

[00:18:53] me for saying that sucker is toast it's you know Madaguarda Bay hurricanes it's gone pulverized

[00:19:01] no hope of a new Indianola or anything like that but Soapus is interesting because

[00:19:09] it's lost but it's not completely lost you know it's gone but it's not completely gone and the way

[00:19:16] in which it is not completely gone is that it lives on in the community of former residents who

[00:19:27] still remember it who still you know have artifacts memorabilia momentos you know that sort of

[00:19:32] thing such as yourself and you guys have a reunion of soprians soprites what is the term of

[00:19:41] yeah I'm sure with the official so I'll let you work sopricians I will let you work on that but

[00:19:46] but just be curious you know what does this reunion look like what do you guys do when

[00:19:52] when you get together and and recall a city that is now 50 years underwater so you know one of

[00:19:58] the things is we have a collection of t-shirts okay John Cunico was he's involved with a friend who

[00:20:06] did NCAA tournaments and stuff so yet all the right connections and and so someone would create

[00:20:12] a design and it would identify that year and so you could order t-shirts you could order caps

[00:20:17] and at that time the youngest and cheedy son Joe and Cheedy and his wife Shirley owned of what

[00:20:24] was the old American Legion Hall downtown where many of the proms had been held and so it was

[00:20:31] called jujos and everyone just gathered jujos on friday night independently but you cannot sell

[00:20:37] anything at the lake it's a state park which makes sense so you'd pre-order it then you'd go down

[00:20:42] to jujos and you'd pick up your order from john and you'd hang out and say hi to everyone and so on so

[00:20:49] friday nights are independent last time was the 50th anniversary so we tried to plan an event and

[00:20:55] it turned into you know a couple of events and so we're debating because I mean that was because

[00:21:02] it was a milestone and then on saturday father Jim canyxveld came to us from Iowa right out of

[00:21:09] seminary and it was in 68 65 he came to us just before the dam was in process and so he was only

[00:21:22] there for a couple of years but he was young he was the oldest of 11 children so he related to

[00:21:28] all ages before I got into church you know I mean it's a big brother to everyone and so

[00:21:34] and he was the one I think that said we can't just let this town disappear we need to celebrate it

[00:21:39] and so he got the people who continue to live there and working there because a lot of the miners

[00:21:44] drove up to valdez and drove up to the alan mine to work so they remained in sopers it's closer

[00:21:50] and then trinidad and so they put together the first reunion and it started out with mass in

[00:21:56] st. Thomas church and from then on the mass is over on south shore and we just contract with someone

[00:22:04] to put up a great big canopy and fill it with chairs and people come and then everyone brings

[00:22:10] their own picnic lunch and the afternoon there's bochi going on I don't know if you know bochi

[00:22:16] I do indeed I've played it okay and more where you try to anticipate how many fingers the next guy

[00:22:21] is going to throw out that's going to equal and so there's horseshoes there are you know there

[00:22:27] were some races and coal races and things so things just to keep people active but more than anything

[00:22:33] we just want to see how everyone's doing we just want to talk to you we want to love on you we want

[00:22:38] to so and then it ends in the afternoon and then the evening there's usually an open house again

[00:22:44] back at jujose and refreshments that everybody you know brings and and then you just some of them are

[00:22:51] tagging along with their class reunion like this are a family reunion on the Sunday instead and

[00:22:56] stuff so we're all here let's have a family reunion the next day kind of thing. That sounds like

[00:23:01] such a joy to get to do that and you know as I said earlier I'm just so charmed by the notion

[00:23:06] that you know here you have a foot both both firmly in the past and firmly in the present and you're

[00:23:12] able to kind of you know experience both both eras simultaneously that really is very unique and

[00:23:19] it is marvelous to get to hear about your experience and to get to read this account of the work

[00:23:25] that you did you and Robert V Hill did to bring that story to us so in jinnavive thank you

[00:23:33] so very much for for joining us just the last thing I wanted to ask you was how can folks

[00:23:39] get hold of a copy of your book well there are several ways um for those who are in Colorado

[00:23:46] basically we're donating 10 copies to Trinidad Historical Society friends of historical Trinidad

[00:23:53] the Steelworks Museum the Colorado Southern Colorado Cole Miners Museum and the Walsonburg

[00:24:01] Miners Museum because we obviously want to fund them so everything from those book sales go directly

[00:24:08] to them and hopefully they will find the need to order more copies and be able to distribute it

[00:24:13] it's also available on amazon and we will be doing certain events that I have pre-ordered some

[00:24:20] books to have available to people and I think their usual outlets go through Costco and Barnes

[00:24:26] and Noble always and so they would have access through those two resources as well but but thank

[00:24:33] you for your kind comments and for reading the book and enjoying it I learned so much and it really

[00:24:41] was a a true pleasure um we wish you all the best for your next project and we will hope to see

[00:24:46] you again soon thank you well bannis been a pleasure I appreciate it very much

[00:24:55] thanks for listening our guest is Ben jinnavive faro jahanson co-author of lost soprice published

[00:25:02] by the history press to order a copy of the book visit your local independent bookstore or visit

[00:25:08] arquedia publishing.com and join us next time for a very special milestone no spoilers see you then

[00:25:18] thanks as always to our producer bill huffman our production director rigid coin

[00:25:23] audio engineer Ian Douglas in our executive producers michael de lauia and your router or landau

[00:25:30] i'm your host Benjamin Mars crime capsule is a production of evergreen podcasts and a signature

[00:25:38] title of the killer podcasts network you can find crime capsule wherever you listen to podcasts

[00:25:45] discover more great true crime and paranormal programming at killerpodcasts.com

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