In 1978, Elaine Fogle was found murdered in her home in rural South Carolina. After months of investigation by local and state investigators, the case went cold. But one of those investigators, Lieutenant Rita Shuler, wouldn't let it go: Shuler would spend the next 40 years pursuing Fogle's case until she finally cracked it -- and then wrote a book about it. This episode is part one of our two-part interview with Shuler, author of "The Lowcountry Murder of Gwendolyn
Elaine Fogle: A Cold Case Solved", out now from Arcadia Publishing.For decades, evidence of the 1978 murder of Gwendolyn Elaine Fogle lay in the evidence room at the Walterboro Police Department. Investigators periodically revisited the case over the years, but it remained the department’s top cold case for thirty-seven years. Special Agent Lieutenant Rita Shuler worked on the case shortly after she joined the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division (SLED), and she couldn’t let it go, not even after her retirement in 2001.
In May 2015, Lieutenant Shuler teamed up with new investigator Corporal Gean Johnson, and together they uncovered key evidence that had been overlooked. With new advancements in DNA and fingerprint technology, they brought the case to its end in just four months.
Join host Ben Morris as he interviews Rita Shuler, author of Murder in Pleasanton: Tina Faelz and the Search for Justice, published by The History Press.
Find us on your favorite podcast provider, or on evergreenpodcasts.com.
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[00:01:02] Everybody remembers their first.
[00:01:21] A police officer friend once told me, we're calling his first arrest decades before we met.
[00:01:28] He's right.
[00:01:29] Some cases just stick with you.
[00:01:32] They follow you around, keep you up at night, wake you up in the morning.
[00:01:37] You try to move on, work on other things, but it's no use.
[00:01:42] They won't let you go.
[00:01:44] Not when you were the same age as the victim.
[00:01:48] Grew up in the same town.
[00:01:50] War the exact same clothes.
[00:01:54] Today on Crime Capsule we have the story of two women who lived almost exactly the same life.
[00:02:00] Who could have been sisters, almost certainly would have been friends,
[00:02:04] but the women's had one of them that had her life taken from her in May 1978.
[00:02:11] Elaine Fogel, native of Orangeburg, South Carolina, was murdered in her home at age 26.
[00:02:19] But taking up her case was Rita Shuler, a freshly minted officer with the state law enforcement agency
[00:02:26] who would follow Elaine's story for the next 40 years, even after it went cold.
[00:02:33] Rita wouldn't just write a book about Elaine's murder.
[00:02:37] First, she would solve it.
[00:02:42] Rita, thank you so much for joining us.
[00:02:44] It's a pleasure to have you.
[00:02:46] Before we get into the details of Elaine's case, can you tell us how did you get your start back in the day?
[00:02:52] Well, when I graduated high school, I decided that I either wanted to be in the medical profession
[00:02:59] or be a police officer.
[00:03:02] I was a little skittish about being a police officer out on the street
[00:03:08] and forensics wasn't really big back then.
[00:03:12] It wasn't even hardly a word back in the 60s when I graduated.
[00:03:16] So I decided to go ahead and try my hands at being an x-ray technologist.
[00:03:22] I didn't want to be a nurse and an x-ray technologist.
[00:03:25] Then we had a school not too far from where I was born and raised down in the country there,
[00:03:30] maybe about 20 miles, Orangeburg, South Carolina.
[00:03:34] So I went into training there.
[00:03:37] I had a two-year training.
[00:03:39] It was certified as a registered radiologic technologist.
[00:03:45] And during my time there, I got interested in the homicides that happened there in the city
[00:03:54] because the police officers that they needed help with an investigation,
[00:04:00] such as finding a bullet in the body, they would bring them over to the hospital
[00:04:06] and we had to go down to the morgue and x-ray those bodies to find that bullet.
[00:04:11] And the first time that the police officers brought in a deceased body
[00:04:17] and they needed to find the bullet, the senior technologist came to me
[00:04:23] and said, okay, since you're a student, you're going to have to go down in the morgue,
[00:04:28] assist and find that bullet for them and x-ray the body down there.
[00:04:33] I think they wanted to see how shocking it would be to me.
[00:04:37] And I looked at them and I said, man, send me on down there.
[00:04:41] And I went on down and came back up after we did find the bullet in the body.
[00:04:47] And I said, man, I am so interested in this.
[00:04:50] Next time you got a dead body in the morgue, I said send me.
[00:04:53] You don't have to worry about sending anybody else.
[00:04:56] So that dates me back to during my younger years.
[00:05:02] I was always really interested and curious about crime
[00:05:09] and how one person could do something to another person's body.
[00:05:15] How could you shoot them? How could you stab them?
[00:05:18] And mom and dad, being graced on the farm, we had newspapers, we had radios
[00:05:25] and if we had a murder around the neighborhood or anywhere close,
[00:05:31] they would involve my brother and I in this.
[00:05:34] They would tell us about it, not to shock us but to let us know that bad things went on out there.
[00:05:39] And that's when my little mind just really started turning.
[00:05:43] And I said, you know, this is just interesting to me
[00:05:47] and that's when I got interested in police work.
[00:05:51] So how did you make the transition from working in medicine to working in law enforcement?
[00:05:56] After about 12 years in the hospital, I kind of got burned out a little bit
[00:06:01] and during the time of my x-ray career, we were fortunate enough
[00:06:07] that we could travel to different states and go to conventions and go to seminars.
[00:06:14] One of those courses happened to be forensic photography and radiology.
[00:06:20] It showed us how photographs and x-rays got into the legal system
[00:06:27] in order to explain to the jury how the case proceeded
[00:06:33] and to try and solve the case.
[00:06:37] And my little mind just started turning.
[00:06:40] I said, oh my gosh, I said I've got to be a part of this when I get back.
[00:06:45] That's when forensic was just starting around, that was around 76, I believe.
[00:06:52] And during my time in my x-ray career, my chief technologist had a dark room
[00:07:00] so he was teaching me how to develop film in that dark room.
[00:07:04] And when I got back to the x-ray department after that meeting,
[00:07:09] I was talking to one of my x-ray maintenance guys
[00:07:12] and I was telling him about the convention and when he listened at me,
[00:07:15] he said, Rita have you thought about maybe checking with the South Carolina Law Enforcement Division?
[00:07:21] I said I hadn't really thought too much about law enforcement in my career
[00:07:25] and the agency here and he says, well I've got a friend over there
[00:07:30] and his name is Mickey Dawson.
[00:07:32] He used to be in the photography area but he has now switched over to the question documents area
[00:07:38] so they need a forensic photographer in the photography area.
[00:07:42] And I said oh my gosh, I said I know Mickey Duperson.
[00:07:45] I said he is married to an x-ray technologist that works at one of the other hospitals there.
[00:07:50] So that was kind of my connection.
[00:07:53] I called Mickey and he said Rita, he said we do have an opening over here.
[00:07:57] He said but I'll tell you, he said I know they won't pay as much as they do at the hospital.
[00:08:04] I said I ain't worried about the pay.
[00:08:06] I said this thing is just fascinating to me
[00:08:09] and I want to really get into the photography part of it
[00:08:12] and investigation part of it.
[00:08:15] That was it.
[00:08:16] I went, I interviewed, they did my background check and I checked out.
[00:08:22] So I got the job within a couple weeks
[00:08:26] and that was when I started with SLED in October 1, 1977.
[00:08:33] And that was probably one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life
[00:08:39] because I really did have a successful career there.
[00:08:44] In the first day I went, they were showing me around doing a little orientation.
[00:08:49] One of the crime scene investigators took me over to their area
[00:08:54] and I was a part of the crime scene area.
[00:08:57] My photography lab was a part of the crime scene area.
[00:09:01] I assisted them with all the evidence and all photographs
[00:09:05] and developing their crime scene photos.
[00:09:09] So they took me over to their crime scene lab
[00:09:12] and they pulled a drawer open
[00:09:14] and in that drawer there was a picture of a dishpan
[00:09:19] and in that dishpan was a decapitated head with a bullet hole
[00:09:24] in the side of the head right below the ear.
[00:09:28] I don't know if they were doing that to shock me or whatever
[00:09:32] but I looked at it and he said,
[00:09:34] Rita you're going to be working with cases like this, can you handle it?
[00:09:37] I looked at it and I went, you know what?
[00:09:40] I know that case.
[00:09:42] I said, this case happened in Pamplico South Carolina
[00:09:45] and he said, yeah, how do you know that?
[00:09:48] I said man, I was a little eight-year-old girl
[00:09:51] and this thing happened back in, I think it was 1958.
[00:09:55] Anyway, I was a little eight-year-old girl
[00:09:58] and I said this thing happened
[00:10:00] and it was all over the newspapers in our area
[00:10:03] and mom and dad would read it to us
[00:10:06] and keep up on what had happened
[00:10:09] and until they found the bad guy
[00:10:12] and I started giving them some history of it
[00:10:15] and he said, well, he said, I guess you want to see the rest of the pictures
[00:10:18] and you want to see the knife that he decapitated this head with
[00:10:22] and I went, oh yeah, I said I really want to see that.
[00:10:26] So they took me and showed me all of that
[00:10:29] and you know, that was the first day I was there
[00:10:32] and I just felt like, okay, I know this is where I'm supposed to be now
[00:10:38] and that was my first day at SLID.
[00:10:41] You get there October 1st, 1977.
[00:10:45] You had been on the force for about seven months
[00:10:51] when this case crossed your desk.
[00:10:55] May 27th, 1978 was the day that Gwendolyn Elaine Fogles was killed.
[00:11:03] Where were you when you first heard about the murder?
[00:11:06] I was in the photography lab.
[00:11:08] You were?
[00:11:09] When they brought the case over to me
[00:11:11] and that was the first time I had heard about the murder
[00:11:14] I always get an incident reports and synopsis of the case
[00:11:19] when they bring them in.
[00:11:21] That is filing my case file as well
[00:11:24] and that's when I saw that Elaine was from my home county.
[00:11:28] The Fogle name was familiar to me as well.
[00:11:32] I knew some Fogles but I did not know her.
[00:11:35] She was around my age.
[00:11:38] She was a little younger and when those photographs came in
[00:11:43] when I developed them, I had this eerie feeling that went through me
[00:11:50] because as I say, she was from my hometown.
[00:11:54] She had been in the medical profession
[00:11:58] before she left Orangeburg to go to Walshburg.
[00:12:02] I was in the medical profession before I left the country
[00:12:05] to go to my training and then on to Columbia
[00:12:10] and when I saw her in the photographs
[00:12:14] when they found her body, Elaine was dressed like me.
[00:12:19] We dressed in little rug of shirts back then
[00:12:22] and she had a little rug of shirt that was pulled up above her breast
[00:12:27] and had jeans that were pulled down below her waist
[00:12:31] and they were missing but her shoes were still on.
[00:12:35] Around the house there were things in her house
[00:12:40] that I had in my house, country things like stone jugs
[00:12:46] there was even an iron corn shell.
[00:12:49] If you don't know what a corn shell is
[00:12:51] one of my investigators asked me that too.
[00:12:53] He said, Rita, what in the hell is a corn shell?
[00:12:55] I said, well it's an iron piece of equipment
[00:13:00] that you put dry corn into it.
[00:13:03] After it's dried on the ear you put dried corn into it
[00:13:06] it has spikes and when you turn the handle
[00:13:08] it'll shell the corn for you.
[00:13:10] And he said, well I guess that tells me
[00:13:13] that not everybody would have a corn shell
[00:13:15] or in their house and I said yeah.
[00:13:17] And then she had different tables in there
[00:13:21] like I had in my house
[00:13:23] and the scary thing was that the metal fire poker
[00:13:30] that was wrapped around Elaine's neck
[00:13:33] I had one of those same fire pokers in my house
[00:13:37] and that's when I just felt an eerie feeling
[00:13:41] that I almost had a connection to Elaine
[00:13:44] because it kind of just really hit home to me.
[00:13:48] When I found out more about Elaine
[00:13:51] she was 26 years old at the time.
[00:13:54] She worked at the hospital for a little while
[00:13:56] and then she went to work for a prominent doctor there
[00:13:59] also as a medical technologist.
[00:14:02] So she was out in the public
[00:14:07] the public knew her, the patients
[00:14:10] and she did a lot of community work
[00:14:13] she loved children
[00:14:15] she took them to ball games sometimes
[00:14:18] she babysat a lot
[00:14:20] she worked with the children in the church
[00:14:22] she was just a lovely person
[00:14:24] and everybody in Walterboro
[00:14:26] because it was a small town
[00:14:28] they pretty much knew Elaine
[00:14:30] was coming in the doctor's office
[00:14:32] and they just, they loved Elaine
[00:14:35] they just said there was no more beautiful person
[00:14:37] in the world than Elaine.
[00:14:39] Well I'm afraid we have to do
[00:14:42] we do have to talk about this part of it
[00:14:45] Elaine was attacked
[00:14:49] about 11 30 p.m.
[00:14:53] on the night of May 27th, 1978
[00:14:58] her roommate Nancy Hooker
[00:15:02] found her
[00:15:04] you write in the book that Nancy
[00:15:06] and her boyfriend came home late that night
[00:15:09] sort of early Sunday morning
[00:15:12] can you describe what they found
[00:15:15] and I have to say for our listeners
[00:15:17] this is a terrible crime
[00:15:19] and your description in the book is graphic
[00:15:23] but the details distressing as they are
[00:15:26] they are actually very important
[00:15:29] to our understanding of the case
[00:15:32] can you describe what they found?
[00:15:34] Elaine had babysat that night
[00:15:37] forcing friends
[00:15:39] and she left their house around 11 15 p.m.
[00:15:43] so that would put her arriving home
[00:15:46] at about 11 30 p.m.
[00:15:48] now Elaine's roommate
[00:15:50] and her friend had been to a meeting
[00:15:52] down in Myrtle Beach
[00:15:54] which was probably 100 or so miles away
[00:15:58] and they returned to the home
[00:16:01] around 1 45 8 p.m.
[00:16:05] and when they went inside
[00:16:07] they saw Elaine covered in blood
[00:16:10] unconscious and partially nude
[00:16:13] lying on the living room floor
[00:16:15] in front of the couch
[00:16:17] they immediately rushed to the police department
[00:16:20] Walterboro Police Department
[00:16:22] and it was only a mile away
[00:16:24] and they told police what they'd seen
[00:16:26] they did not disturb anything in the house
[00:16:29] and they weren't even sure if Elaine was alive or dead
[00:16:33] her friend, her roommate's friend
[00:16:35] did say it appeared that she had been beaten
[00:16:39] and was sexually assaulted
[00:16:43] right
[00:16:45] and the EMS arrived
[00:16:48] and Walterboro Police arrived immediately after that
[00:16:52] and of course they found that Elaine was deceased
[00:16:56] and then of course that's when
[00:16:58] they called the pathologist in back then
[00:17:01] Dr. Sexton they called him in
[00:17:04] also the medical examiner
[00:17:06] they also called Dr. Flowers too
[00:17:09] to tell Dr. Flowers about Elaine
[00:17:12] and he also came over to the scene
[00:17:15] and that was back then
[00:17:17] people came to scenes today
[00:17:19] you know it's a lot different
[00:17:21] but there was some foot traffic in and out of the scene
[00:17:24] after the body was removed too
[00:17:27] but it appeared that Elaine had come home that night
[00:17:31] opened her front door
[00:17:33] when she opened that door
[00:17:35] they believed that the person was inside of the house
[00:17:40] in the midst of a burglary
[00:17:42] and when she opened the door
[00:17:44] kind of element of surprise
[00:17:47] he saw her and that's when
[00:17:50] he took the first blow to her
[00:17:53] and she fell right there by the front door
[00:17:57] because there was a pattern of blood
[00:18:00] dragged blood over to where her body was found
[00:18:05] down below the couch
[00:18:07] so apparently he had hit her there
[00:18:09] and dragged her over to that couch
[00:18:11] and that's where the rest of the assault happened
[00:18:15] So she was surprised but
[00:18:18] he was surprised too?
[00:18:21] Yes, he apparently closed the front door
[00:18:25] locked the front door after he got her in there
[00:18:28] and when the roommate and friend came home
[00:18:33] the door was locked
[00:18:35] but the light was on inside the house
[00:18:39] and that's when they thought that strange anyway
[00:18:42] because Elaine didn't usually stay up that late
[00:18:45] and they had heard her say that she was going to her mother's
[00:18:48] the next day to her mother's birthday party
[00:18:52] in Orangeburg
[00:18:54] so that's when they thought it was strange
[00:18:56] and when he opened the door
[00:18:58] it was just a horrible sight for them
[00:19:00] but they just backed out
[00:19:02] and went to the police department
[00:19:04] At some murder scenes the victim is caught off guard
[00:19:07] and that's just kind of it
[00:19:09] the killer gets one strike
[00:19:11] and the victim goes down
[00:19:13] and that's kind of the end of the story
[00:19:16] but in this case there was a fight, wasn't there?
[00:19:19] I mean Elaine seems to have fought back
[00:19:22] she was dragged, she put up a
[00:19:24] life or death struggle
[00:19:26] Yes, when the pathologist got there
[00:19:28] the first thing he saw was that
[00:19:30] she had defense wounds to her knuckles
[00:19:34] and on her arms
[00:19:37] and he said this woman put up one
[00:19:40] hull of a fight against this guy
[00:19:43] you know that's one thing too
[00:19:45] that if she put up a fight with this guy
[00:19:49] he may have had bruises
[00:19:53] and cuts all over him too
[00:19:55] so that was one thing investigators said
[00:19:57] well if she put up this big of a fight
[00:20:00] he may have had cuts and bruises
[00:20:03] or he was using a knife or whatever he was using
[00:20:06] he may have cut himself
[00:20:08] and made him bleed
[00:20:10] and that happens a lot of course at a crime scene
[00:20:13] but the shocker was
[00:20:15] when they examined her body
[00:20:19] there was a metal fire poker
[00:20:22] wrapped around her neck
[00:20:24] and we later learned that
[00:20:26] her dad had given her this fire poker
[00:20:29] to keep next to the door
[00:20:32] for her protection
[00:20:34] that was what killed her, strangulation
[00:20:37] and then the amount of death was of course homicide
[00:20:40] but along with all the beatings
[00:20:43] and powerful blows that he gave her
[00:20:46] the ending product was
[00:20:48] strangling her with that fire poker
[00:20:51] and affixating her
[00:20:54] How had her killer gotten entry into the house?
[00:20:58] The investigators found
[00:21:00] that he had entered a back window
[00:21:03] there was three windows on the back of her house
[00:21:06] and he had entered one of the windows
[00:21:09] by knocking out the glass
[00:21:11] and we know he was outside
[00:21:14] because the glass was knocked
[00:21:17] to the inside of the dining room floor
[00:21:20] and he reached in and unlocked the glass
[00:21:23] and pulled the window up
[00:21:25] and got into the house
[00:21:27] there was also footprints down below that window
[00:21:31] that was photographed
[00:21:33] and there were very clear footprints
[00:21:35] So all cases turn on evidence
[00:21:38] but this case turns heavily
[00:21:41] on the evidence that was found
[00:21:43] at the scene you write
[00:21:45] that about 40 pieces overall
[00:21:48] were collected
[00:21:50] and if we can I'd like to ask you
[00:21:52] just a few questions about
[00:21:54] some of the key pieces of evidence in turn
[00:21:57] so you mentioned the fireplace poker
[00:22:00] that was by the door
[00:22:01] her father had given that to her
[00:22:04] that was the murder weapon
[00:22:07] the weapon of strangulation
[00:22:09] her clothing
[00:22:11] there were some unusual aspects
[00:22:14] of her clothing weren't there
[00:22:16] was there a dresser with her blue jeans
[00:22:18] where they were found
[00:22:20] can you describe what was going on
[00:22:22] with the clothing in the house
[00:22:24] they found like I said
[00:22:26] her jeans were missing from her body
[00:22:28] but her shoes were on
[00:22:30] and they found the jeans
[00:22:33] on the roof of her little back porch
[00:22:36] so apparently
[00:22:38] he took those jeans
[00:22:40] and threw them up on top of the roof
[00:22:43] and then the next day
[00:22:45] that guy when he left
[00:22:47] that's where her jeans were found
[00:22:49] they did find a pair of panties
[00:22:53] on the couch
[00:22:55] they weren't sure if they were the roommates
[00:22:57] panties or Elaine's panties
[00:22:59] but at that time
[00:23:01] they photographed it
[00:23:03] why were her jeans on the roof
[00:23:05] you know we don't know
[00:23:07] after I read the thing
[00:23:09] I just kind of felt like
[00:23:11] I threw them up on the roof
[00:23:13] those are my thoughts
[00:23:15] people do crazy things
[00:23:17] when they kill people
[00:23:19] in investigations
[00:23:21] it is, they just do
[00:23:23] crazy things
[00:23:25] and some of them have their own little signatures
[00:23:27] that they leave at every crime scene
[00:23:29] they go to
[00:23:31] but I think this guy
[00:23:33] he just kind of said
[00:23:35] okay well maybe he was thinking
[00:23:37] he was going to take them home for a souvenir
[00:23:39] but he obviously took them out that back door
[00:23:41] and threw them up on top of the roof
[00:23:43] which was crazy
[00:23:45] but that's where they ended up
[00:23:47] and that's where and thank god
[00:23:49] the officers looked up there and investigated us
[00:23:51] and found the jeans
[00:23:53] the shoe prints in the sand
[00:23:55] you mentioned what kind of shoes was he wearing
[00:23:57] did we learn anything from them
[00:23:59] we did not see that in the report
[00:24:01] there was a report
[00:24:03] but they could get a size
[00:24:05] and they could get the tread marks
[00:24:07] from that shoe print in the sand
[00:24:09] it was very clear
[00:24:11] and I've got to admit
[00:24:13] during my career we photographed
[00:24:15] a lot of shoes from
[00:24:17] persons of interest
[00:24:19] they would bring the shoes in the meter
[00:24:21] photograph and if they had a shoe print
[00:24:23] of any kind
[00:24:25] in blood or in the sand
[00:24:27] and I photographed the soles
[00:24:29] of those shoes they could possibly
[00:24:31] match them back
[00:24:33] to the bad guy's shoes
[00:24:35] because there's always imperfections
[00:24:37] in everybody's shoes
[00:24:39] even the way they are worn
[00:24:41] or if they're a little cuts in them
[00:24:43] but this particular one
[00:24:45] did not yield
[00:24:47] anything back in the original investigation
[00:24:49] you write in the book
[00:25:22] that there is
[00:25:24] a considerable amount of bodily evidence
[00:25:26] that was taken from this scene
[00:25:28] we have
[00:25:30] fingerprints, palm prints
[00:25:32] fingernail scrapings, blood
[00:25:34] hair
[00:25:36] samples from the rape kit and so forth
[00:25:38] what did the organic evidence
[00:25:40] what did the autopsy
[00:25:42] reveal about Elaine's murder
[00:25:44] there was a considerable amount of
[00:25:46] evidence taken
[00:25:48] from Elaine's body as well
[00:25:50] during the autopsy
[00:25:52] and so that was
[00:25:54] co-mix
[00:25:56] co-bing of the pubic hair
[00:25:58] and pubic hair
[00:26:00] was pulled from the skin
[00:26:02] and fingernail scrapings
[00:26:04] from her left hand
[00:26:06] and her right hand
[00:26:08] and of course
[00:26:10] the black metal polka
[00:26:12] was taken from around her neck
[00:26:14] and I'd like to say
[00:26:16] that
[00:26:18] at the autopsy
[00:26:20] the pathologist told me
[00:26:22] that it took two people
[00:26:24] to unwrap that polka
[00:26:26] from around Elaine's neck
[00:26:28] and then there was
[00:26:30] a huge amount
[00:26:32] of semen collected
[00:26:34] from Elaine
[00:26:36] vaginally
[00:26:38] and antilyne
[00:26:40] and the pathology
[00:26:42] he was very meticulous
[00:26:44] he put those into vials
[00:26:46] and
[00:26:48] we had colostopas back then
[00:26:50] for the vials
[00:26:52] and he had them all
[00:26:54] packaged up
[00:26:56] and they were to go to sled
[00:26:58] later
[00:27:00] for the blood analysis
[00:27:02] and the semen analysis
[00:27:04] and he signed them over
[00:27:06] to the sled agent
[00:27:08] to take two
[00:27:10] sled headquarters in Columbia to the laboratory
[00:27:12] and the same thing
[00:27:14] with the fingernail scrapings
[00:27:16] and the pubic hairs
[00:27:18] they were to be taken to sled
[00:27:20] and some were doing it
[00:27:22] at the medical college here in Charleston as well
[00:27:24] but the main ones
[00:27:26] went to sled
[00:27:28] to be analyzed
[00:27:30] You write in this very unusual
[00:27:32] passage in the book
[00:27:34] that one of the great mysteries
[00:27:36] of this crime scene was
[00:27:38] her car keys
[00:27:40] they were never found
[00:27:42] First investigators
[00:27:44] original investigators
[00:27:46] kind of summarized that
[00:27:48] they thought this was a burglary
[00:27:50] going bad
[00:27:52] and the guy was in the house
[00:27:54] when Elaine got home
[00:27:56] in the process of burglary
[00:27:58] and possibly back then
[00:28:00] looking for drugs
[00:28:02] that was a possibility
[00:28:04] and being that Elaine
[00:28:06] worked to the doctor's office
[00:28:08] that put another point
[00:28:10] in their head that
[00:28:12] maybe they were seeing
[00:28:14] if she had any drugs in the house
[00:28:16] or
[00:28:18] possibly if she had
[00:28:20] access to the doctor's office
[00:28:22] all the time
[00:28:24] if there was any keys in the house
[00:28:26] and it turned out that
[00:28:28] the only thing that was missing
[00:28:30] from that crime scene
[00:28:32] that they could tell
[00:28:34] was her car keys
[00:28:36] but her car was still in the driveway
[00:28:38] Dr. Flowers had come
[00:28:40] over to the house that night
[00:28:42] the doctor she worked for
[00:28:44] and he immediately
[00:28:46] had
[00:28:48] a friend that came in and found her
[00:28:50] he and Billy went over
[00:28:52] to his office
[00:28:54] and immediately changed the locks
[00:28:56] on the office doors
[00:28:58] in case the guys knew
[00:29:00] that Elaine weren't there
[00:29:02] and we were going over and maybe like can steal some drugs
[00:29:04] from there breaking and steal some drugs
[00:29:06] but that never occurred
[00:29:08] and nothing else
[00:29:10] could be found missing in that house
[00:29:12] so if it was a burglary
[00:29:14] he didn't get anything out of the house
[00:29:16] except the car keys
[00:29:18] and you would think
[00:29:20] that he might have was going to steal the car
[00:29:22] but he left
[00:29:24] and the car was still there
[00:29:26] So Rita let me ask you
[00:29:28] you have
[00:29:30] the evidence that's collected on scene
[00:29:32] you have the synopsis
[00:29:34] given to you by
[00:29:36] the investigator
[00:29:38] who arrives
[00:29:40] to write it up
[00:29:42] but why do you think
[00:29:44] that was killed?
[00:29:46] I believe that it was a robbery
[00:29:48] going bad
[00:29:50] murder of convenience
[00:29:52] she walks in and the bad guys
[00:29:54] surprised
[00:29:56] and oh my god
[00:29:58] she looks at me
[00:30:00] maybe she recognizes me
[00:30:02] and Elaine started
[00:30:04] fighting back
[00:30:06] and we later found out
[00:30:08] that the bad guy did
[00:30:10] not like a woman
[00:30:12] who had to do
[00:30:14] or fighting back
[00:30:16] he was in control
[00:30:18] and he wanted to be in control of her
[00:30:20] and I think it was just the robbery going bad
[00:30:22] and then
[00:30:24] he just started beating her
[00:30:26] he kept beating her
[00:30:28] and he wanted to make sure
[00:30:30] that she was dead
[00:30:32] and he ended up putting that fire poker around her neck
[00:30:34] So Walthbourn goes in
[00:30:36] that night they shoot the scene
[00:30:38] they do a pretty good job as you say
[00:30:40] and then they bring everything back
[00:30:42] to sled where you were
[00:30:44] that Monday in the crime lab
[00:30:46] what were your
[00:30:48] first steps once you got that
[00:30:50] evidence in hand
[00:30:52] what did you do at that point?
[00:30:54] When Walthbourn would bring it to sled
[00:30:56] they had to sign in
[00:30:58] as evidence downstairs
[00:31:00] in our evidence logging area
[00:31:02] then it would shift to the correct
[00:31:04] apartments that it needed to be
[00:31:06] such as photographs
[00:31:08] would come to my department
[00:31:10] film would come to my department
[00:31:12] evidence would go to the crime scene
[00:31:14] department
[00:31:16] and then the crime scene
[00:31:18] if they needed photographs of what
[00:31:20] the evidence came in
[00:31:22] they would bring it over to me
[00:31:24] and in this particular case
[00:31:26] the lifts from the crime scene
[00:31:28] that Walthbourn brought
[00:31:30] to the crime scene investigators
[00:31:32] that slayed
[00:31:34] which included
[00:31:36] that examiners were a part
[00:31:38] of that crime scene
[00:31:40] they examined that evidence
[00:31:42] for any fingerprints
[00:31:44] after they dusted it and they would bring it
[00:31:46] over to me to photograph the fingerprints
[00:31:48] as well as
[00:31:50] then bringing that evidence over to me
[00:31:52] before they dusted
[00:31:54] for fingerprints so that it would
[00:31:56] not be altered
[00:31:58] so we photographed it
[00:32:00] before they would dust it
[00:32:02] and then if they found
[00:32:04] fingerprints then they would bring it
[00:32:06] over to me to photograph it
[00:32:08] and I would photograph it
[00:32:10] and file those negatives
[00:32:12] in my photo file
[00:32:14] and give the crime scene
[00:32:16] team a hard copy
[00:32:18] photograph
[00:32:20] so they had a hard copy, I had the negatives
[00:32:22] and you can go back to those
[00:32:24] negatives that's one good thing about
[00:32:26] photographs you can go back
[00:32:28] to them 25 years later
[00:32:30] and that shows you
[00:32:32] exactly how
[00:32:34] the crime scene looked back then
[00:32:36] how the evidence looked back then
[00:32:38] and we had that as a
[00:32:40] permanent record and that is still
[00:32:42] today even with digital photography
[00:32:44] the initial crime scene
[00:32:46] photography is just
[00:32:48] 100%
[00:32:50] important
[00:32:52] and being able to file it and go back
[00:32:54] when you need to
[00:32:56] refer to it
[00:32:58] to assist with investigation
[00:33:00] and it's crucial
[00:33:02] Well let me ask you
[00:33:04] until very recently photography
[00:33:06] was a slow process
[00:33:08] it's a meticulous process
[00:33:10] you were having to be very careful with the chemicals
[00:33:12] with the developer
[00:33:14] with the integrity actually of the negatives
[00:33:16] that they're not over exposed
[00:33:18] to what degree as you are doing
[00:33:20] your work is
[00:33:22] time of the essence
[00:33:24] the killer is still
[00:33:26] out there and yet you are handling
[00:33:28] the evidence which could be
[00:33:30] pertinent to the case as it is
[00:33:32] unfolding right then and there
[00:33:34] so how does that work
[00:33:36] time is the important
[00:33:38] thing get it out as soon
[00:33:40] as possible and with
[00:33:42] a case like this I mean when they brought
[00:33:44] it in we got right on it
[00:33:46] and take care
[00:33:48] of any kind of evidence
[00:33:50] that we have because
[00:33:52] we've got a killer out there
[00:33:54] there may be another victim before you can
[00:33:56] get him so yes it is
[00:33:58] definitely
[00:34:00] time so we would get on
[00:34:02] it right then and
[00:34:04] give them an investigation
[00:34:06] something to work with
[00:34:08] How long did it take you to go through the material
[00:34:10] for Elaine's case to process it
[00:34:12] Myself
[00:34:14] it probably took me an hour
[00:34:16] to go through the film
[00:34:18] that they brought into me now the investigators
[00:34:20] they were examining
[00:34:22] evidence as I was
[00:34:24] processing the film
[00:34:26] from the crime scenes of course that took
[00:34:28] longer that took longer because
[00:34:30] if they brought in like I said
[00:34:32] any kind of piece of evidence that they brought
[00:34:34] in they bring in
[00:34:36] doors sometime or
[00:34:38] tables and chairs and
[00:34:40] glasses and they had to
[00:34:42] dust them for fingerprints
[00:34:44] in order to see if there was any
[00:34:46] prints or any blood
[00:34:48] patterns or anything on them
[00:34:50] so theirs took a lot
[00:34:52] longer but we had
[00:34:54] in Elaine's case
[00:34:56] they had the lifts
[00:34:58] from the crime scene
[00:35:00] and me photographing them
[00:35:02] in just a matter of the days
[00:35:04] and when they got them to me and I
[00:35:06] photographed them I probably
[00:35:08] processed that film and printed it up
[00:35:10] within an hour to two hours
[00:35:12] and gave the investigators those prints
[00:35:14] where they could work with
[00:35:16] You guys are processing an enormous amount
[00:35:18] of material in your lab at that point
[00:35:20] what specifically
[00:35:22] did the crime scene
[00:35:24] photographs reveal
[00:35:26] if anything?
[00:35:28] There was an enormous amount of blood
[00:35:30] all over that living room
[00:35:32] and that was important
[00:35:34] because our investigators
[00:35:36] could actually tell
[00:35:38] you've heard a blood spatter
[00:35:40] and then droplets of blood
[00:35:42] going 90 degrees down on the
[00:35:44] floor and was it from the
[00:35:46] victim or was it from the bad guy
[00:35:48] and we just didn't know back then
[00:35:50] because all you could do
[00:35:52] was get a blood type
[00:35:54] so that was important
[00:35:56] is to the position
[00:35:58] location of the blood
[00:36:00] as I said too
[00:36:02] it showed where she was dragged
[00:36:04] from the front door over
[00:36:06] to the position they found her in
[00:36:08] when the roommate came home that night
[00:36:10] and then they always
[00:36:12] document too
[00:36:14] when they lift these prints
[00:36:16] they're lifted from
[00:36:18] so that we'll know where they were
[00:36:20] lifted from when we
[00:36:22] photograph them and file them
[00:36:24] and maybe have to go back to them
[00:36:26] and also the shoe print
[00:36:28] we had to
[00:36:30] really document that
[00:36:32] with the best lighting in the photo lab
[00:36:34] that I could
[00:36:36] in order to enhance
[00:36:38] any of the threads on the shoes
[00:36:40] and the same thing with the fingerprints
[00:36:42] if you could enhance them
[00:36:44] not all to them
[00:36:46] like the word also it's always
[00:36:48] enhance prints for
[00:36:50] the examiners to be able to use
[00:36:52] them better and there was
[00:36:54] one area
[00:36:56] on a lean stomach
[00:36:58] that appeared to be
[00:37:00] a bloody
[00:37:02] shoe print
[00:37:06] and when they looked at the design
[00:37:08] of that blood pattern on her
[00:37:10] abdomen area
[00:37:12] and looked at the
[00:37:14] photograph of the print outside
[00:37:16] the window it had
[00:37:18] the same design
[00:37:20] so they were pretty sure that
[00:37:22] he probably had
[00:37:24] stepped in the blood
[00:37:26] and when he was holding her down
[00:37:28] with his shoe
[00:37:30] as he was putting that
[00:37:32] firepoker around her neck
[00:37:34] we were hoping we could do something
[00:37:36] with that but
[00:37:38] it was just like the shoe print
[00:37:40] we didn't have any shoes
[00:37:42] of the bad guy
[00:37:44] to match it back to at that time
[00:37:46] and we didn't have a suspect
[00:37:48] or any person of interest
[00:37:50] at that time
[00:37:52] so take us forward a little bit
[00:37:54] take us into the days
[00:37:56] and the weeks following
[00:37:58] the murder
[00:38:00] who were
[00:38:02] Walter Burrow, P.D.
[00:38:04] and Sled
[00:38:06] who were they interviewing
[00:38:08] and what are they learning?
[00:38:10] Well, one thing that
[00:38:12] they really thought about
[00:38:14] to begin with was there
[00:38:16] two people
[00:38:18] because of the firepoker wrapped around
[00:38:20] her neck or was there
[00:38:22] one person that had brute strength
[00:38:24] that he could wrap that firepoker
[00:38:26] around her neck
[00:38:28] from day one the investigators
[00:38:30] started thinking
[00:38:32] about persons of interest
[00:38:34] and one of their main interests
[00:38:36] was that he had kind of focused on
[00:38:38] one person
[00:38:40] who lived
[00:38:42] right around the corner from Elaine
[00:38:44] in a trailer with his wife
[00:38:46] the reason they focused on him
[00:38:48] was because
[00:38:50] they had had some run-ins with him in the past
[00:38:52] he'd had some DUIs
[00:38:54] and they knew
[00:38:56] Ronald Allen
[00:38:58] and he was a big man
[00:39:00] he was what we call a shade tree mechanic
[00:39:02] down here in the low country
[00:39:04] he had a lot of cars in his backyard
[00:39:06] he had a hoist in a tree
[00:39:08] where he could almost lift the car
[00:39:10] of himself
[00:39:12] he had a workbench, he worked out
[00:39:14] he had a workbench in his front yard
[00:39:16] he worked out
[00:39:18] and he was very muscular
[00:39:20] they decided that
[00:39:22] let's go talk to Ronald Allen
[00:39:24] so they did go talk to him
[00:39:26] he said
[00:39:28] you know I didn't have anything to do with this
[00:39:30] and they actually
[00:39:32] looked at his shoes too
[00:39:34] to see if it would match up to the shoe prints
[00:39:36] under the window
[00:39:38] and he had no shoes that even
[00:39:40] had the appearance of the design
[00:39:42] on the shoe print under the windows
[00:39:44] and there was quite a few shoe prints
[00:39:46] under those windows
[00:39:48] with the same design so they figured that
[00:39:50] was a bad guy's shoe prints
[00:39:52] they just kind of stayed focused on him
[00:39:54] and
[00:39:56] they talked to other people
[00:39:58] that had a record around the area
[00:40:00] some that
[00:40:02] had been in jail and out of jail
[00:40:04] they actually took a few up
[00:40:06] to Columbia
[00:40:08] to polygraph them
[00:40:10] but none of them panned out
[00:40:12] with the shoe prints or anything
[00:40:14] but they just couldn't get
[00:40:16] Ronald Allen out of their minds
[00:40:18] they were just determined
[00:40:20] that it was Ronald Allen because he was
[00:40:22] close vicinity
[00:40:24] crime of opportunity
[00:40:26] for him
[00:40:28] he drank a lot
[00:40:30] and doing some
[00:40:32] drugs probably
[00:40:34] and he had a few DUIs
[00:40:36] so that's the reason they really focused on him
[00:40:38] we haven't said much about
[00:40:40] the Fogel family
[00:40:42] about Elaine's parents
[00:40:44] Murtis and Wells
[00:40:46] her sister Eolian
[00:40:48] and her brother-in-law Larry
[00:40:50] in your book
[00:40:52] you note this unusual
[00:40:54] experience Larry had before the murder
[00:40:56] almost
[00:40:58] kind of like a premonition of something that was
[00:41:00] about to happen
[00:41:02] what was going on there
[00:41:04] Eolian and her husband Larry
[00:41:06] were also
[00:41:08] going to meet at her mother's
[00:41:10] on that Sunday
[00:41:12] to celebrate her mother's birthday
[00:41:14] but
[00:41:16] when Eolian got home from work that night
[00:41:18] Larry told her
[00:41:20] you know I've got a funny feeling
[00:41:22] he said why don't we just go down
[00:41:24] to your mom's tonight
[00:41:26] and we'll meet
[00:41:28] Elaine there in the morning
[00:41:30] so they decided okay we'll
[00:41:32] go on down and
[00:41:34] we'll stay with them
[00:41:36] and Elaine will come on down
[00:41:38] on Sunday
[00:41:40] so when they got there
[00:41:42] Eolian, her mother
[00:41:44] Larry and her dad they sat around
[00:41:46] and talked a little bit
[00:41:48] and then Larry
[00:41:50] and Elaine's dad
[00:41:52] Elaine's mom and
[00:41:54] her sister sat around
[00:41:56] and talked till around 2 or 3 o'clock
[00:41:58] in the morning it wasn't long
[00:42:00] after they got in the bed
[00:42:02] that they heard a knock on the door
[00:42:04] and that was
[00:42:06] one of the Orangeburg County
[00:42:08] offices
[00:42:10] who knew the Fogel family
[00:42:12] coming to relay the message
[00:42:14] that Eolian
[00:42:16] had been killed
[00:42:18] and the pastor
[00:42:20] was also with them
[00:42:22] let's move forward a little bit
[00:42:24] you write
[00:42:26] that by the following year
[00:42:28] which is 1979
[00:42:30] Elaine's murder was
[00:42:32] Walter Burroughs
[00:42:34] number one
[00:42:36] cold case
[00:42:38] yet
[00:42:40] the investigation by this point
[00:42:42] had not turned up anything
[00:42:44] concrete
[00:42:46] the Ronald Allen lead had fallen through
[00:42:48] and there weren't any other strong contenders
[00:42:50] the evidence didn't have
[00:42:52] any more to reveal at this point
[00:42:54] in time
[00:42:56] and troublingly
[00:42:58] some of the really important evidence
[00:43:00] the semen samples
[00:43:02] had gone missing
[00:43:04] so 1979 passes
[00:43:06] 1980
[00:43:08] 1981
[00:43:10] year after year goes by
[00:43:12] and
[00:43:14] nothing new
[00:43:16] coming to light
[00:43:18] and then in July 1985
[00:43:20] Chad Caldwell
[00:43:22] one of the sled lieutenants
[00:43:24] files a report
[00:43:26] and
[00:43:28] this report is not
[00:43:30] what Elaine's family
[00:43:32] wanted to hear
[00:43:34] and it's not what anyone
[00:43:36] in Walter Burrough wanted to hear
[00:43:38] what did he say
[00:43:40] the
[00:43:42] regional agent that was working
[00:43:44] with the Walter Burrough Police Department
[00:43:46] he was not a
[00:43:48] crime scene investigator
[00:43:50] we have regional agents all over the state
[00:43:52] that can respond to the
[00:43:54] immediate
[00:43:56] location
[00:43:58] he lived in the Walter Burrough area
[00:44:00] he actually was the one that the
[00:44:02] semen samples were signed over to
[00:44:04] you
[00:44:06] were on this case
[00:44:08] from
[00:44:10] the very beginning
[00:44:12] it was just your job
[00:44:14] it was
[00:44:16] something more than that
[00:44:18] despite the fact that you and Elaine
[00:44:20] never met
[00:44:22] you felt like you already knew her
[00:44:24] that
[00:44:26] given the chance the two of y'all
[00:44:28] probably would have been
[00:44:30] best of friends
[00:44:32] even though I never met Elaine
[00:44:34] after I did
[00:44:36] have
[00:44:38] the pleasure of meeting
[00:44:40] Elaine and some of her extended family
[00:44:42] Eolian
[00:44:44] told me
[00:44:46] Rita
[00:44:48] you
[00:44:50] and Elaine look alike
[00:44:52] y'all could have been the best of friends
[00:44:54] and I told her
[00:44:56] I've already felt that Eolian
[00:44:58] I said that's the reason I could not
[00:45:00] get this case out of my mind
[00:45:02] although I wasn't on
[00:45:04] the frontline investigation
[00:45:06] I had
[00:45:08] all this evidence that I had worked with
[00:45:10] and I go back
[00:45:12] a lot
[00:45:14] and just pull that file out
[00:45:16] and look at it
[00:45:18] but the investigation had stalled
[00:45:20] but I did
[00:45:22] I just
[00:45:24] it was just my personal quest
[00:45:26] that I said this case
[00:45:28] can be solved
[00:45:30] and then it got to the point where
[00:45:32] they just had nothing else
[00:45:34] around 1985
[00:45:36] and it just went cold
[00:46:18] and that's it
[00:46:59] and he's creeping
[00:47:01] and he don't follow
[00:47:03] with them
[00:47:05] let me introduce you to Barry Clue
[00:47:07] an authorised financial advisor from New Zealand
[00:47:09] and a very special kind of
[00:47:11] stain on humanity
[00:47:13] he was a very knowledgeable young guy
[00:47:15] he was a registered financial advisor
[00:47:17] type of guy that was bending over
[00:47:19] backwards to help you
[00:47:21] now you could be forgiven for thinking that Barry sounds like a great guy
[00:47:23] and you'd be right
[00:47:25] well right up until the point
[00:47:27] when you're wrong
[00:47:29] you stole from my son
[00:47:31] who has a disability
[00:47:33] Chris never knew
[00:47:35] he died believing that we're all taken care of
[00:47:37] a psychopath is somebody who
[00:47:39] lacks empathy acts impulsively
[00:47:41] I think there's a strong case that Barry might be all of those things actually
[00:47:43] to find out how Barry Clue
[00:47:45] stole over $15 million from
[00:47:47] 81 victims
[00:47:49] subscribe to Clueless the Long Con
[00:47:51] that's Clueless spelt
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