How Will Water, Sanitation and Hygiene Look in Post-COVID World?

[00:00:00] You are listening to the Quint's podcast.

[00:00:13] The Quint and the Nudge brings to you Charcha 2020, a platform for India's development

[00:00:18] sector to come together and engage on the most pressing human development challenges

[00:00:24] on the issues of gender, policy, law, climate change, social development and much more.

[00:00:35] How will water, sanitation and hygiene look like in the post-coronavirus world and how

[00:00:40] are the governments expected to address such issues?

[00:00:44] This is Vanita Suneja from WaterAid India, in conversation with G. Mathi Vatanen, Principal

[00:00:49] Secretary of Urban Development for the Government of Odisha.

[00:00:53] Akhila Shivadas from the Centre for Advocacy and Research, Manvita Bharati from the Urban

[00:00:59] Management Centre in Ahmedabad and Sandeep Khare from Vigyan Foundation.

[00:01:13] In our urban areas, cities whether they are metropolitan or small towns, you know how

[00:01:24] the need of the vulnerable population has been met during COVID or even in the new normal

[00:01:31] where we are going to live with COVID situation for some time to come.

[00:01:35] How those needs are being met?

[00:01:39] To discuss this, we have a very esteemed set of panelists with us.

[00:01:45] We have Mr. G. Mathi Vatanen who is Principal Secretary of Urban Development of Odisha.

[00:01:52] We have Ms. Akhila Shivadas, Centre for Advocacy and Research, New Delhi.

[00:01:58] We have with us Mr. Sandeep Khare, Vigyan Foundation in Lucknow and we have Ms. Manvita

[00:02:04] Bharati from Urban Management Centre in Ahmedabad.

[00:02:09] Before we initiate, I will just put two points there.

[00:02:11] With limited resources in place in this pandemic, the need of the R is for the public and the

[00:02:16] private sector to come together to make our healthcare more robust.

[00:02:21] And while COVID-19 overwhelms the entire health system, vulnerable groups with non-COVID-19

[00:02:27] health issues also face the brunt of this overload on the health sector.

[00:02:31] How can we mitigate the impact on them and ensure access to healthcare for us?

[00:02:38] This is Dr. Shailendra Hegre from Perimalt Swastia in conversation with renowned surgeon

[00:02:43] Devi Shetty.

[00:02:48] This is Dr. Shailendra Hegre from Perimalt Swastia in conversation with renowned heart

[00:02:52] surgeon Devi Shetty and Ashoka Alexander.

[00:03:03] This is Dr. Shailendra Hegre from Perimalt Swastia in conversation with renowned heart surgeon

[00:03:11] Devi Shetty and Ashoka Alexander, founder and director of the Antara Foundation which is

[00:03:17] a non-profit organisation focused on public health delivery.

[00:03:22] So, with this, we will start.

[00:03:34] I will first ask Mr. Ji Mati Vatnand who is here with us and all our panelists are in a very

[00:03:44] nice space where they are the practitioners, they are implementing things on ground as

[00:03:50] well as they are working at the policy space also.

[00:03:54] So we are expecting to hear very good inspiring insights from each of you and first we will

[00:04:00] start with Mr. Mati Vatnand and in terms of, you know, in Orissa, I would, you know,

[00:04:09] it would be great to know that how the Orissa government has planned to ensure access

[00:04:16] to water, sanitation and hygiene in urban areas and what has been your challenges while

[00:04:23] doing that.

[00:04:25] And if you think there are some learnings for other states to pick up, you know, so it

[00:04:30] would be great.

[00:04:31] Over to you sir.

[00:04:32] Thank you.

[00:04:33] Thank you madam.

[00:04:34] As far as the strategy for the current COVID situation is concerned, I would like

[00:04:40] to mention here that providing uninterrupted water supply is highest priority for us as

[00:04:46] of now.

[00:04:47] During the current ongoing lockdown period, as most of the population is forced to remain

[00:04:52] inside the home, the domestic water demand has sharply increased beyond our expectations

[00:04:59] and along with the increased requirement of frequent hand washing, sanitation practices,

[00:05:05] it has really caused a great challenge on the water supply authority, its organizations.

[00:05:10] The government considered operation and maintenance of the water supply and sanitation as most

[00:05:16] essential services during this COVID and have given highest priority.

[00:05:22] Our workforce has been continuously mobilized 24 by 7 to ensure uninterrupted services.

[00:05:28] In fact, if you visit our towns, you can take feedback.

[00:05:32] If you would know that the city is under lockdown as far as the water supply and sanitation are

[00:05:36] concerned, we'll find absolutely no difference in the service level.

[00:05:40] Rather, we have enhanced the service level, increased the number of hours of supply, increased

[00:05:45] the quantity of supply to the public so that they don't feel they don't get the pinch

[00:05:51] of that.

[00:05:52] In fact, during this period only, the water supply and sanitation services have been

[00:05:57] notified as essential services under the ESMA Act.

[00:06:01] As a preparatory activity, we didn't want to face any eventuality.

[00:06:07] So in advance, we notified both the services, water supply as well as sanitation as essential

[00:06:11] services so that we will have the protection of ESMA Act.

[00:06:16] To provide 24 by 7 customer care, our centralized customer care is now converted to IVRS

[00:06:22] based with 24 by 7 automatic complaint login, automatic transfer of the complaint to the

[00:06:26] Voindum staff and online tracking of the redressals.

[00:06:30] We are also introducing the mobile van laboratories on wheels.

[00:06:36] It's not that you get complained and then there is a time lag between the complaint

[00:06:40] and redressal.

[00:06:41] So the moment you get a complaint, the mobile van having the laboratory will reach.

[00:06:45] We are working on that.

[00:06:47] We have also taken up a campaign called Pure for Sure and we provide the real

[00:06:54] time water quality data available for the public.

[00:06:58] We have a digital display system in all the urban local bodies where on daily basis, we

[00:07:04] display the quantity of water supply, quality of water, water parameters, number of hours

[00:07:09] of supply, all those things for the public domain.

[00:07:13] We have also every year, Odisha faces almost every year we face a cyclone threat.

[00:07:21] Disaster rates are very common to us.

[00:07:22] So power backup is very, very critical, especially in the cyclone prone areas.

[00:07:27] So we have over the period of time, we have enhanced our disaster preparedness and almost

[00:07:33] all our water supply installations are provided with alternative power supplies.

[00:07:39] The DG sets are provided and also it is not possible to cover even smaller water

[00:07:48] supply installation.

[00:07:49] So what we have done, we have now have DG sets on wheels of varying capacity.

[00:07:56] Wherever we have disaster, wherever we have problems, we can build those DG sets quickly

[00:08:02] within few hours of time and those DG sets are positioned in critical locations and

[00:08:09] migrant workers is a current huge problem for us.

[00:08:17] So we have a lot of migrant workers all over the country from abroad also.

[00:08:23] Many of the migrant workers are actually plumbers, Odisha is known for plumbers.

[00:08:29] There are few blocks and a district.

[00:08:31] The Kendrappadap district and the Patamundai block is known for providing plumbers all

[00:08:37] over the world, we can say.

[00:08:39] So many of them have now returned back.

[00:08:42] So we are actually exploring to enlist them, empanel them and then use them as our technical

[00:08:50] personnel in our ongoing water supply maintenance works as well as to provide household connection

[00:08:56] works.

[00:08:57] So community participation has been a very, very important component of our strategy for

[00:09:04] community-centric water supply service.

[00:09:06] BATCO has rolled out a reform initiative called the Jalsati.

[00:09:11] Members from the women's self-help group, Odisha is actually very strong in women's self-help

[00:09:17] group movement.

[00:09:18] It's called the Mission Sati.

[00:09:19] The members of these Mission Sati who are among the community or appointed as Jalsatis

[00:09:25] and they work with us on incentive based contract mechanism.

[00:09:28] So they are our partners at the grassroot level.

[00:09:30] This is a novel initiative we have taken up and their role is to distribute the

[00:09:34] bills to the households including meter reading.

[00:09:38] They collect the revenue from the households, facilitate complaint management and they also

[00:09:43] carry out household level on site water quality testing.

[00:09:47] This is a huge jump we have made.

[00:09:50] We are not only using as a sub staff or unskilled laborers.

[00:09:55] We are also enhancing their skill level and using them as a technical personnel.

[00:10:01] We have provided quality training and we are using them as our field quality personnel.

[00:10:08] So they undertake the quality testing.

[00:10:11] So they have been trained with the regular capacity building programs and they are

[00:10:15] provided with hand held M-PASS machine which they use for collecting the revenues from

[00:10:21] the households.

[00:10:22] They are also provided with water testing kits and other accessories.

[00:10:27] Incentives are paid based on the activity, based on revenue collection, based on new connection

[00:10:32] made, based on the number of quality tests they have performed.

[00:10:35] Based on those things incentives are paid to the self-employed group members.

[00:10:40] This actually this program has helped us now to build up the community linkage very

[00:10:44] strongly with the water supply authority.

[00:10:47] Perhaps we will hear more on those from Akhila when she will talk about also some

[00:10:56] of the work which Akhila has done and linking it to that.

[00:11:02] In terms of challenges I think it is very, you know this thing that you know water is

[00:11:07] essential sanitation is sorry sanitation and hygiene is important but at the same

[00:11:13] time the investment might drop in this sector.

[00:11:17] I think this is something which we all need to be very careful about and you know

[00:11:21] be kind of advocating for that because COVID has shown that how important it is.

[00:11:27] So while we are prioritizing different sectors, how this sector gets that new investment.

[00:11:32] So not taking much time we will again come back to Mr. Mathi Vanan in the end and now

[00:11:38] I will ask our second speaker Ms. Akhila.

[00:11:42] I will ask Akhila to come on board now.

[00:11:45] And you know Akhila in terms of like the way Mr. Mathi Vanan has talked about lots of

[00:11:53] you know government policies initiatives but I would like you and he also talked about

[00:11:58] rights and you know slums you know but I would like you to specifically focus on

[00:12:03] the equity and the whole you know inclusion bit that lens you know taking that lens

[00:12:11] for urban wash what you think you know what could be the mechanism how do we bring that

[00:12:17] and the second is also you know what role I mean we have seen what role government can

[00:12:22] play and also at the local level the capacity building of messians and you know so much

[00:12:29] and so far but at the same time what role can be played by the community based organization

[00:12:35] you know at the local governance level.

[00:12:38] So basically on these two over to you Akhila thanks.

[00:12:42] Thank you Venetan thank you Raman for you know giving us this opportunity and of course

[00:12:48] a big hello to all the co-panelists and people apart you know you have joined the webinar.

[00:12:54] I want firstly to at the outset to commend what you know Mr. Mathi Vanan has presented

[00:13:03] it really is walking the talk and you know we are all privy to what is happening and he

[00:13:11] never fails to be part of the community process even at seven in the morning is out there

[00:13:16] with us so notwithstanding that I'd like to profess my presentation with two you know

[00:13:24] sort of revolutionary remarks when it now one is that this is not about us and them

[00:13:31] a lot of this you know the kind of points that civil society makes it's not about just

[00:13:38] pointing fingers or blaming anybody or creating you know criticizing for the sake of criticizing

[00:13:47] we are all really in a difficult predicament today and we stand to lose a lot of what

[00:13:54] we have gained over the years in the months to come you know the challenge is enormous

[00:14:01] and what we are witnessing today the migrant workers something that has been steadily growing

[00:14:09] and simmering since the 70s this has not happened overnight you know it's not something

[00:14:15] that has just suddenly exploded it's been simmering and it's reflected in the wider insecurity

[00:14:23] that the urban poor has been facing but there was a time in early 2000 when they were virtually

[00:14:30] disenfranchised they were getting no rights they were running from pillar to post they were being

[00:14:36] told everywhere that your gayar kanuni that you're illegal your existence cannot be recognised

[00:14:43] you know and it is at this time in civil society networks movements and particularly

[00:14:49] state and city governments i'm not putting them out of the radar at all they played a huge role

[00:14:55] they all realised that the situation is untenable and it was in the mid 2000 that suddenly people

[00:15:01] were woke up to the huge you know shall we say crisis in the country and that you know it's

[00:15:08] not about just rural poverty there is something called urban poor and the first time in the

[00:15:13] five-year plan you got actually an acknowledgement of that that you know there's something called

[00:15:19] urban poverty and something called urban poor and not many years have gone by you know in the

[00:15:25] in the history of a nation what is 10 years and we are faced with this crippling crisis called

[00:15:30] covid-19 and so what are what were we facing at that time which is what i would like to

[00:15:38] highlight and this includes your basic services and wash services a combination of what you call

[00:15:45] administrative process very difficult to fulfil very difficult to comply in terms of schemes

[00:15:53] services and social entitlements and local dynamics with very little decentralisation

[00:15:59] happening you know and shall we say power brokers and local you know power leaders or

[00:16:06] power structures taking over and even often paralyzing the formal structures and forcing

[00:16:14] them to capitulate to what they want so you do have that kind of situation in large pockets of

[00:16:20] the country there's no getting away from it and it is in this context you know the urban poor

[00:16:27] were being squeezed they were not being given a left to do what they could do if you are a sex

[00:16:32] worker you were haunted by the police if you're a straight vendor you were thrown out of the lanes

[00:16:37] that you're not supposed to you're not licensed to be in so it was all very very ugly you know

[00:16:42] that the situation was very very grim it's in this scenario the response of many of us who stand

[00:16:50] by the rights of the workers is it's important to talk about and it is in that context that

[00:16:55] Mr. Madhi Vavinen's presentation becomes so significant you know did not just rest on a problem

[00:17:03] went about trying to solve it and address it and in the urban context is much more difficult

[00:17:09] lift cities and there are sort of you know there are what are called locked-in processes in the

[00:17:15] system you're like your land locked your system is locked you can't budge you can't move you

[00:17:21] can't converge even if you converge over a meeting it doesn't converge the heart or whatever you're

[00:17:27] intending to converge so the first thing we had to do and the government did it in its own way

[00:17:32] and we did it in our own way is to contend with those informal structures at the local level

[00:17:38] we had to strongly convert content to collective collectivize not just about expressing needs

[00:17:45] just Mr. Vavinen was saying about you know reading the meters meeting the bills collecting the dues

[00:17:52] all of that going beyond just expressing needs and demands actually aggregating the demands so that

[00:17:59] we don't get into one size fits all but everybody has a special need and here I would like to

[00:18:05] profess and you know join with Mr. Vavinen saying that it's not just about the poor within

[00:18:12] the poor there are ranges of you know what are called hidden communities communities that have never been

[00:18:18] mainstream that are struggling to make ends meet and there are innumerable of them you know so this

[00:18:26] entire collectivization to be strengthened with skills ability capacity to forge consensus gather

[00:18:35] evidence give feedback set right the grievance redress all of that on the other end there has

[00:18:43] to be equal bigger you know and they should be very close collaboration with civil society we have

[00:18:50] nothing no other intention except to help the entire process to move forward second thing we did

[00:18:57] you know a part from collectivization and it's a shall we say a co-terminus thing

[00:19:02] that is engage with the system day after day it doesn't matter if they don't respond

[00:19:09] doesn't matter if they don't listen doesn't matter if you don't get a reply they rarely reply

[00:19:15] do they do silently do they do their work but they don't necessarily reply it's important to

[00:19:21] do it every day right because you need to sensitize them they often don't take decisions

[00:19:28] because they do not know things you know it's quite amazing despite them being on the ground many

[00:19:34] things they do not see and they do not know so to help them also to take decisions they're as fragile

[00:19:40] as any of us are because they're often lonely in their jobs often get very little support the

[00:19:46] system is never a collaborator system it's highly competitive systems so nobody really helps each

[00:19:51] other they try to try and maintain the civility of help it doesn't go too far always so our role

[00:19:59] in sensitizing the system becomes very very critical and this is where in the context of

[00:20:05] covid Mr. Mati Badanand said no we are locked down how do we link what do we meet communities

[00:20:12] how do we reach out to them how do we create that kind of what we call a meaningful connect

[00:20:19] that you know actually impacts people's lives you can actually see something hitting the ground

[00:20:25] and that's where and I and it's also about hand washing in the context of wash definitely hand

[00:20:31] washing the entire sanitation value chain everything is you know making people nervous

[00:20:39] if waste is spiling they're getting nervous if you know it's not being D slash they're

[00:20:45] getting frightened so entire you know value chain and this is where now we really have to understand

[00:20:52] community empowerment we really must decentralize and we must understand however much you do from the

[00:21:00] top however much you enable from the top however much you you know create these conditions these have

[00:21:07] to be seized at the bottom things have to be you know shall we say nurtured and taken to scale from

[00:21:16] at the bottom so this is really very critical in covid context and to do both what has really stood

[00:21:24] us you know we have been able to with the community platforms across 14 cities we have been able to

[00:21:30] zoom in relief one of course is food relief but there's also what is called the dignity kit

[00:21:36] hygiene kit many things people need where is the soap where is the detergent where is the

[00:21:42] sanitary napkin where is all the stuff that you're expected to use to be able to stay healthy and

[00:21:48] prevent the virus so we've been the community platforms have just zoomed in we are working with

[00:21:54] over 25 relief agencies in the remotest part of the cities in the country reaching out to the

[00:22:00] most hidden groups right from people living with HIV transgenders sex workers denotified tribes

[00:22:07] to people living in education sites just about you can name anything we are there and the entire

[00:22:14] credit goes to the community platforms thanks thanks akhila yes so i think very you know these

[00:22:24] insights we were looking forward to in terms of the whole you know urban poor and the

[00:22:29] desegregation of those categories as such and the deeds would be very different and then the whole

[00:22:36] you know the governance at the very local level either through self-help groups or the management

[00:22:40] committees and how that that process itself helps in the overall governance of you know

[00:22:47] the government and otherwise at the community level so so and it's also great to see that

[00:22:53] the kind of collaboration which is there with the civil society and at the government level

[00:22:58] in orisa and we just hope i think these are also some of the lessons for other states as well

[00:23:04] so so with this thanks akhila and we will again come back to you later and now i will ask

[00:23:12] sandeep chet sandeep kare who is from vikyan foundation lucknow sandeep chet aap

[00:23:49] yeah

[00:24:02] uh

[00:24:19] I will share the experience of COVID-19.

[00:24:24] If we look at the preface of COVID-19 and the preface of lockdown,

[00:24:30] we see that this is the first time that the city was divided from the city.

[00:24:36] We do not see it.

[00:24:38] It has come before us in a living form.

[00:24:42] Everyone is sleeping in the care of the people of the country.

[00:24:47] So, this is a time of crisis that is taking place after the lockdown.

[00:24:54] We also have the opportunity to see ourselves in the service of the people of the city.

[00:25:03] We can think of new ways of development and models.

[00:25:09] If we look at every city where we live in Lucknow,

[00:25:14] and the rest of the cities in India,

[00:25:18] if we look at their development, then there is a centralized development.

[00:25:22] If we look at Lucknow, Delhi, Farizabad, Calcutta, Chennai,

[00:25:29] then the city around them is like a dead city.

[00:25:32] It is not a living city.

[00:25:34] The resources of the city are in one place.

[00:25:40] We see the idea of the JNNRM, which came and there are 63 cities for services,

[00:25:47] and there are 100 cities in the smart city.

[00:25:49] And the services are being developed in a very strict way.

[00:25:52] But there is a lot of attention and discussion on the services around it.

[00:25:56] So, this is the first time that we have the chance

[00:26:01] to see the model of development in a very strict way.

[00:26:05] We have to think about the services of other services.

[00:26:09] We have to think about the services we want to give.

[00:26:13] Secondly, I would like to say that this is a matter of cleanliness and water.

[00:26:22] When the crisis that took place during the lockdown

[00:26:28] was over the water, and the water spending was the biggest effect

[00:26:34] on women, then it was more than that.

[00:26:37] Because we work with those people, especially in the villages.

[00:26:40] The water is mostly used to kill women.

[00:26:45] So, this crisis was caused by the water,

[00:26:49] and the work was also increased.

[00:26:51] And the water and water supply of the work was increased.

[00:26:57] That is also related to violence.

[00:26:59] So, we should see the question of water and water.

[00:27:03] I am able to see that because of the water,

[00:27:08] and because of the water, it was not as frequently accessed.

[00:27:12] So, in some places, we see it as a matter of violence.

[00:27:15] So, we have to understand this question in the coming days

[00:27:18] that the relationship between water and poverty

[00:27:21] with the violence that was related to it

[00:27:24] is not as common as in the future.

[00:27:27] Secondly, I would like to say that this is also a time

[00:27:34] when we should think about the rights of the refugees.

[00:27:40] Because when we designed the whole development model

[00:27:44] and made huge highways,

[00:27:46] made huge cities and cities,

[00:27:50] and made huge highways,

[00:27:54] made huge cities and cities,

[00:27:56] we don't have access to water,

[00:27:58] or any facilities.

[00:28:00] And in the end, we had to pay millions of rupees.

[00:28:04] But today, without water and water supply,

[00:28:07] we had to think about the areas

[00:28:10] that we considered to be very good.

[00:28:12] So, we should look at the future

[00:28:16] and see if we can design a model

[00:28:20] that is more of an energy-based model.

[00:28:23] Because the more energy-based models we try to find,

[00:28:26] the burden will ultimately be on the society.

[00:28:29] And the burden that will be there

[00:28:32] after the public economy,

[00:28:34] there might not be enough people to support such a burden.

[00:28:37] So, we have this opportunity

[00:28:40] to see how we can get less energy-based models.

[00:28:45] We can find them in the city of Vaas.

[00:28:49] And the model of centralized development

[00:28:54] is in front of us.

[00:28:56] We are talking about decentralization,

[00:28:58] but it is not a model of decentralization.

[00:29:01] So, we should think about that.

[00:29:03] Another thing I would like to mention

[00:29:05] is that if we look at the cities

[00:29:08] and cities in the cities,

[00:29:10] we don't have any reporting

[00:29:12] with us.

[00:29:14] And that is why when the lockdown started,

[00:29:17] neither the government nor the civil society

[00:29:19] had any idea

[00:29:21] nor did anyone have any idea

[00:29:23] that so many people will leave the city

[00:29:25] and go to the houses.

[00:29:27] So, this is a good opportunity

[00:29:29] when we can map the urban parts,

[00:29:31] we can map the occupational mapping

[00:29:33] of the areas where people are going,

[00:29:35] where they are going,

[00:29:37] and then we can facilitate them

[00:29:39] by organizing them.

[00:29:42] So, this is a great opportunity.

[00:29:44] If we look at the situation as an opportunity,

[00:29:46] it is the first time

[00:29:48] when we are all talking about

[00:29:50] the issues of the development

[00:29:52] and the development.

[00:29:54] And we can see that there are some states

[00:29:56] like Satyasgarh, Bihar, Jharkhar,

[00:29:58] Uttar Pradesh,

[00:30:00] where there is a lot of development,

[00:30:02] and not only development,

[00:30:04] but also the development of the image,

[00:30:06] and the development of the image.

[00:30:08] I will give an example.

[00:30:10] There is a district of Baraban

[00:30:12] with the image where

[00:30:14] people are coming to work in the potato factory

[00:30:16] during the lockdown.

[00:30:18] This is not a good opportunity.

[00:30:20] So, this is a great opportunity

[00:30:22] when we can see that

[00:30:24] all the people who go to other cities

[00:30:26] and are looking for work,

[00:30:28] we can help them

[00:30:30] by organizing the services of the farm.

[00:30:32] So, that is the side of the people.

[00:30:34] I will also try to make another

[00:30:36] note because

[00:30:38] there are still

[00:30:40] sanitary workers

[00:30:42] who are responsible for

[00:30:44] the entire lockdown

[00:30:46] and after the lockdown,

[00:30:48] they will be responsible for it.

[00:30:50] Because COVID-19 has taught

[00:30:52] that

[00:30:54] the world will change

[00:30:56] in the future.

[00:30:58] So, according to the

[00:31:00] community,

[00:31:02] the burden on the cleaners

[00:31:04] is increasing.

[00:31:06] If we look here,

[00:31:08] in Lucknow,

[00:31:10] the cleaners are around 6,920.

[00:31:12] And their workload

[00:31:14] is so high that they take them

[00:31:16] from 6 am to 2 pm.

[00:31:18] Now, they are going

[00:31:20] for a long time

[00:31:22] and the workload is

[00:31:24] increasing.

[00:31:26] So, we should talk about

[00:31:28] how cleaners are,

[00:31:30] how they live properly,

[00:31:32] how they are safe

[00:31:34] and how they are doing.

[00:31:36] The standard

[00:31:38] of the cleaners

[00:31:40] should be at least followed

[00:31:42] by the population.

[00:31:44] This is a big source of information.

[00:31:46] There is another place

[00:31:48] where we need to understand

[00:31:50] and believe that

[00:31:52] as the minister said,

[00:31:54] the number of people in India

[00:31:56] should increase.

[00:31:58] In the nation of India,

[00:32:00] in fact, the world,

[00:32:02] as well as COVID-19 has taught us

[00:32:04] that we should not

[00:32:06] serve the people.

[00:32:08] Because wherever you look

[00:32:10] at the health sector,

[00:32:12] where the service was

[00:32:14] more important,

[00:32:16] the service is very bad.

[00:32:18] Their situation is very bad.

[00:32:20] So, this is a chance

[00:32:22] that we should

[00:32:24] think about the health sector

[00:32:26] and the health sector

[00:32:28] and think about them

[00:32:30] and the government should

[00:32:32] take responsibility to the people.

[00:32:34] Because our experience

[00:32:36] is that

[00:32:38] especially during the lockdown

[00:32:40] or even after the lockdown,

[00:32:42] the service has been

[00:32:44] reduced.

[00:32:46] They are not able to work in the areas of the people.

[00:32:48] Their society is very limited.

[00:32:50] So, the people who are working

[00:32:52] with the government

[00:32:54] and the government

[00:32:56] are able to collaborate

[00:32:58] with them.

[00:33:00] So, this is a chance

[00:33:02] that we should make our servants

[00:33:04] more self-sufficient

[00:33:06] and more worthy

[00:33:08] of working in the areas of the people.

[00:33:10] So, we need to

[00:33:12] define our citizen charters

[00:33:14] again.

[00:33:16] We need to define the services

[00:33:18] that are being given

[00:33:20] to the people.

[00:33:22] So, the water that is being

[00:33:24] provided to the people

[00:33:26] or the public toilets

[00:33:28] needs to be designed

[00:33:30] to provide a better

[00:33:32] service.

[00:33:34] We also saw

[00:33:36] that in the last few weeks

[00:33:38] we have made a

[00:33:40] contribution to the people

[00:33:42] because they are not free.

[00:33:44] So, during that time

[00:33:46] when the community toilets were

[00:33:48] being built

[00:33:50] we had to take a loan

[00:33:52] and we would be able to pay

[00:33:54] the money later.

[00:33:56] Or in some places

[00:33:58] people knew that

[00:34:00] the people who were donating

[00:34:02] the money

[00:34:04] were using the community toilets

[00:34:06] in some areas.

[00:34:08] So, we need to think

[00:34:10] that when we call them public

[00:34:12] services and we give them a lot of open

[00:34:14] defecation, the free zone

[00:34:16] because the community toilets

[00:34:18] were built around the slums

[00:34:20] and they were called open defecation

[00:34:22] areas.

[00:34:24] So, if people go

[00:34:26] to such a place

[00:34:28] to avail the service

[00:34:30] we need to talk

[00:34:32] about the

[00:34:34] resources and the

[00:34:36] resources

[00:34:38] that are being provided

[00:34:40] to the people.

[00:34:42] Thank you.

[00:34:44] I think

[00:34:46] that is the

[00:34:48] question

[00:34:50] that you said that there is no water

[00:34:52] on the highways

[00:34:54] where people are going.

[00:34:56] Similarly, public taps

[00:34:58] can be re-entered

[00:35:00] or paid attention to.

[00:35:02] Along with that

[00:35:04] sanitation workers

[00:35:06] are coming from

[00:35:08] all over the world

[00:35:10] the issue of sanitation workers

[00:35:12] is that they have to do

[00:35:14] they have to be out on the street

[00:35:16] whether they have protective workers

[00:35:18] whether they are working hours or more than required

[00:35:20] which is an essential

[00:35:22] duty.

[00:35:24] This is also a very important part

[00:35:26] of the sanitation chain

[00:35:28] as such

[00:35:30] and also the issues of gender

[00:35:32] which you raised about women

[00:35:34] the whole responsibility

[00:35:36] which comes on that.

[00:35:38] I think very interesting ideas

[00:35:40] I will take this discussion further

[00:35:42] because

[00:35:44] some of these ideas

[00:35:46] have to be

[00:35:48] urban local bodies level

[00:35:50] how the urban local bodies

[00:35:52] are responding to some of these requirements

[00:35:54] some of these contextual needs

[00:35:56] so I would ask

[00:35:58] Malvita Bharat to come

[00:36:00] and

[00:36:02] thanks Sanjeev

[00:36:04] to talk about

[00:36:06] what are the lessons

[00:36:08] from the measures taken by

[00:36:10] urban local bodies

[00:36:12] in technical situations

[00:36:14] in COVID situation

[00:36:16] and how

[00:36:18] development partners

[00:36:20] and technical agencies support urban local bodies

[00:36:22] for all these suggestions

[00:36:24] which we have been hearing.

[00:36:26] Over to Malvita.

[00:36:28] Thank you Vanita and

[00:36:30] Ramanji and all my colleagues

[00:36:32] on the panel

[00:36:34] so we could

[00:36:36] have had a situation

[00:36:38] where probably we knew

[00:36:40] how many urban poor are there

[00:36:42] how many distressed communities are there

[00:36:44] and where are the invisible

[00:36:46] people living.

[00:36:48] Mostly they live in urban slums

[00:36:50] which are the

[00:36:52] neglected areas

[00:36:54] though as we all know

[00:36:56] the 74th amendment to the constitution

[00:36:58] in 1992-93

[00:37:00] suggests that

[00:37:02] city governments role

[00:37:04] is to work with the urban poor

[00:37:06] empower them

[00:37:08] and it is

[00:37:10] inclusive cities

[00:37:12] which is mandated by the constitution

[00:37:14] cities have done

[00:37:16] some work since then

[00:37:18] I wouldn't negate

[00:37:20] what has not been happening

[00:37:22] until now

[00:37:24] but a comprehensive

[00:37:26] understanding

[00:37:28] and kind of blending them into the fabric

[00:37:30] which has not happened

[00:37:32] there are

[00:37:34] schemes and if you look at our

[00:37:36] apps and schemes they are amazing

[00:37:38] there is a possibility

[00:37:40] to have a society which is

[00:37:42] we all dream of

[00:37:44] more inclusive, equitable

[00:37:46] and just

[00:37:48] however why are we

[00:37:50] where we are

[00:37:52] what is it that we are missing out

[00:37:54] maybe the convergence point

[00:37:56] between

[00:37:58] various government departments

[00:38:00] because I am sure

[00:38:02] all of us including

[00:38:04] the parts of the government

[00:38:06] believe in what we all believe

[00:38:08] the civil society and the governments

[00:38:10] are mostly

[00:38:12] mostly on the same page

[00:38:14] they want to deliver

[00:38:16] because we believe in welfare

[00:38:18] however it has not been done

[00:38:20] the greatest

[00:38:24] blame I would put

[00:38:26] or the greatest culprit

[00:38:28] probably the intersection of that

[00:38:30] or to be able to work

[00:38:32] cohesively between civil society

[00:38:34] the government and the communities

[00:38:36] the intersection has to come out

[00:38:38] very strongly we have to work together

[00:38:40] to achieve something

[00:38:42] attempts are being made

[00:38:44] but COVID situation through this

[00:38:46] challenge in front of us and it's

[00:38:48] out and open earlier we were talking

[00:38:50] in our groups, networks

[00:38:52] no now it's people everybody

[00:38:54] knows what's happening

[00:38:56] what can be done

[00:38:58] it is high time

[00:39:00] that we look and relook

[00:39:02] at our cities

[00:39:04] and the way we integrate the functions

[00:39:06] the basic services have to be provided

[00:39:08] so some examples

[00:39:10] for instance in Ahmedabad in 1996

[00:39:12] onwards we had a SLUM

[00:39:14] networking program

[00:39:16] under which they

[00:39:18] decided very important thing

[00:39:20] is dealing

[00:39:22] the land tenure

[00:39:24] basic services

[00:39:26] you provide water

[00:39:28] and sanitation

[00:39:30] and people will construct their own houses

[00:39:32] on their own

[00:39:34] and they will invest

[00:39:36] in the formal house

[00:39:38] so that it's a better

[00:39:40] clean environment to live in

[00:39:42] why have we thrown this out of our window

[00:39:44] why is it not

[00:39:46] replicated all over the country

[00:39:48] I know Mr. Mathi sir

[00:39:50] has already worked in

[00:39:52] Orissa on similar lines and provided

[00:39:54] much more actually

[00:39:56] their scheme to Jagga mission

[00:39:58] is amazing

[00:40:00] they have in short ten year

[00:40:02] status to the SLUM dwellers

[00:40:04] that is a way forward

[00:40:06] maybe their state could do it because of the will

[00:40:08] our other states ready for it

[00:40:10] why are we not

[00:40:12] contemplating

[00:40:14] of giving cleaner environment

[00:40:16] to our residents

[00:40:18] who contribute to the GDP

[00:40:20] and we are not even capturing those numbers

[00:40:22] because it's all informal

[00:40:24] they are contributing to our GDP

[00:40:26] we have to keep them in our fold

[00:40:28] we need them as much

[00:40:30] as they need us

[00:40:32] but we need them more I would say

[00:40:34] because we need our services to be moving

[00:40:36] having them

[00:40:38] be productive citizens

[00:40:40] is very very important

[00:40:42] so how can we achieve it

[00:40:44] one example I gave

[00:40:46] is probably a way to

[00:40:48] provide for

[00:40:50] securities

[00:40:52] they will invest in their house

[00:40:54] just assure them that look

[00:40:56] nobody is going to evict you

[00:40:58] you'll be here

[00:41:00] we cannot provide

[00:41:02] affordable housing

[00:41:04] to all our citizens who require housing

[00:41:06] that's not our country

[00:41:08] it's not moving towards it

[00:41:10] what is the best possible way

[00:41:12] where you are maybe provide

[00:41:14] for them

[00:41:16] is important

[00:41:18] once that is taken care of

[00:41:20] people will invest in their own

[00:41:22] other things

[00:41:24] so what we are discussing currently

[00:41:26] we are working with four levels of the government

[00:41:28] we are also working at New Elements

[00:41:30] New Delhi with them

[00:41:32] we are working with the state government

[00:41:34] in Telangana and Orissa big time

[00:41:36] and we are working also with the

[00:41:38] communities and cities

[00:41:40] in Orissa and other parts of the country

[00:41:42] about 20 of them

[00:41:44] we have learnt

[00:41:46] that unless the community is a partner

[00:41:48] which many states now are looking at

[00:41:50] self help groups

[00:41:52] is a way forward

[00:41:54] we organise them, we provide for them

[00:41:56] and we have seen in the Covid times

[00:41:58] what response they have given

[00:42:00] making of masks

[00:42:02] making of sanitizers

[00:42:04] making of even

[00:42:06] giving little help

[00:42:08] cash help from one

[00:42:10] household to another

[00:42:12] through the Sakhibanking

[00:42:14] loops

[00:42:16] it has been possible

[00:42:18] so we have to strengthen that mechanism

[00:42:20] and what we are suggesting

[00:42:22] is let's talk about

[00:42:24] citywide

[00:42:26] and decentralised

[00:42:28] city facilitation centres

[00:42:30] what can it do

[00:42:32] it can enrol

[00:42:34] urban poor

[00:42:36] it can enrol migrants

[00:42:38] because people who come to city

[00:42:40] are looking for jobs

[00:42:42] then it's killing

[00:42:44] they need

[00:42:46] to find where the jobs are

[00:42:48] the city facilitation centres

[00:42:50] which are also embedded in some other way

[00:42:52] named as city

[00:42:54] livelihood centres in many of the

[00:42:56] in the NULM guidelines

[00:42:58] the livelihoods mission guidelines

[00:43:00] if we can strengthen that

[00:43:02] would that be a way forward

[00:43:04] we will have to enumerate

[00:43:06] people who are coming

[00:43:08] probably

[00:43:10] supported by the self-help groups

[00:43:12] the urban poor communities

[00:43:14] can take charge of it

[00:43:16] will require NGOs to

[00:43:18] skill them, to council them

[00:43:20] build their capacities

[00:43:22] and provide

[00:43:24] legal aid if they require

[00:43:26] see that they are placed

[00:43:28] in appropriate locations

[00:43:30] so as I started talking

[00:43:32] we have

[00:43:34] acts which give that

[00:43:36] that

[00:43:38] support

[00:43:40] the unorganised

[00:43:42] workers social security act

[00:43:44] of 2002

[00:43:46] provides us possibility

[00:43:48] that we work with local governments

[00:43:50] give them the power

[00:43:52] to create such

[00:43:54] maybe facilitation centres

[00:43:56] get the workers

[00:43:58] when they come back

[00:44:00] it's unfortunately

[00:44:02] it's unfortunately

[00:44:04] they have gone

[00:44:06] but when they come back

[00:44:08] they have a better

[00:44:10] life

[00:44:12] better living conditions

[00:44:14] their jobs are secure

[00:44:16] they get legal aid and they are placed

[00:44:18] properly we have to do it

[00:44:20] it's high time, thank you

[00:44:22] okay thanks Manavita

[00:44:24] I think you have already taken us

[00:44:26] in the future scenario

[00:44:28] what needs to be done

[00:44:30] so now I think

[00:44:32] in a way

[00:44:34] talked about

[00:44:36] in quite futuristic terms

[00:44:38] what should be done

[00:44:40] in those terms as well

[00:44:42] but I think

[00:44:44] this, to me

[00:44:46] these discussions were very insightful

[00:44:48] very useful and I hope

[00:44:50] people who have been hearing

[00:44:52] would also have

[00:44:54] it must have been come as very

[00:44:56] interesting for them as well

[00:44:58] and as there is a lot of work

[00:45:00] to be done and to learn from

[00:45:02] what is happening in each other state

[00:45:04] and I think that's why these

[00:45:06] platforms are very important

[00:45:08] the way we heard from Orissa what is happening

[00:45:10] or some of the ideas which are coming from

[00:45:12] other civil society members

[00:45:14] and think tanks

[00:45:16] so with this I will

[00:45:18] close the session and

[00:45:20] thanks a lot to all the people

[00:45:22] panellists as well as

[00:45:24] the NARCH team who has been supporting this

[00:45:26] as well as the WaterAid team

[00:45:28] so together

[00:45:30] thanks to all

[00:45:32] and thank you very much

[00:45:34] Namaste