The Podcast Report 2023-24

[00:00:01] Hi, I'm Samiran. Hi, I'm Muleh. Hi, I'm Sheetal. And you're listening to 3TB. 3 Techies Banter

[00:00:10] Hey, hi, we won Welcome to another episode of 3 Techies Banter. This episode of 3 Techies is kind of a little different than others because it's a podcast about podcasting

[00:00:26] And as you may or may not know, I'm Sheetal had actually gone out and done this amazing report about the podcast industry.

[00:00:36] And when we started, relation I started reading it, you know, of course, I was struck with some very strange things.

[00:00:45] One of them being at the issue content that is created. So apparently there are 4 million podcasts in number of episodes.

[00:00:51] So it will apparently take 400 years to finish listening to them, apparently if you start listening.

[00:00:59] But we also have the other side that is this whole phenomena that bulk of 50% of podcasts don't make it past the 7th episode. So that's a phenomenon called pod fading.

[00:01:10] So that's another thing. The other funny thing I came across is that blood of people record their podcasts in their closets because it apparently absorbed sound of the clothes.

[00:01:23] So and to give you a funny one line of it that gives a whole new meaning to come out of the closet.

[00:01:35] But the genre actually lends itself to, you know, if I get lends it, there's a lot of micro micro genres.

[00:01:44] So then you have the history of potatoes, how to keep house plums and there is actually one podcast which is about it's actually ambient office sounds for people who miss working in Cuba.

[00:02:03] So all in all very, very interesting space and she tell us dead to venture into it.

[00:02:12] So we kind of now roll it over to she tell us how she kind of navigated all of this.

[00:02:18] So a lot of the findings that he stated are not there.

[00:02:22] We have done this is a we run to his mad research which really puts a lot of data into space, but I'm like just go back to work if you're missing office so much.

[00:02:35] But you need a podcast with the weird sounds companies are dying to get people back to work and nobody wants to go back.

[00:02:44] So that's interesting having said that I think three of us when we started off one of the biggest challenges we had is every would sit and say who's listening to podcasts.

[00:02:54] That was a question we were constantly asking who's listening to the podcast. Why are people listening to podcasts?

[00:03:02] You know, somebody in Metro's listening to podcasts is somebody down into two listening to podcasts should be doing on English, should be doing Hindi these were questions are three of us.

[00:03:15] I think have debated over the last three years a lot and we ran as there was nothing which was telling us who's listening to it.

[00:03:23] So we have a sense of, I run on back and search it made sense to go out there and say hey listen let's go and understand who's listening to podcasts and that's the starting point for this.

[00:03:35] We also did very interesting stuff so we went and met 2,000 plus people to understand just awareness levels right how many people are actually aware of podcasts because data that we had picked up said that he never was the third largest podcast consumer.

[00:03:53] After the US and China and this was just on the back of the pandemic and we said okay third largest means a lot of people must be listening to it.

[00:04:01] I think there is a need 12% listening because they even aware of it and so aware on listening is 12%

[00:04:08] and we said 12% of the Indian population is listening and that makes us third largest so can you imagine the potential that this industry has.

[00:04:17] And so we went and said okay has the awareness level shifted which was one of the first questions that we checked and we said from the 2022 data to now 2024 data.

[00:04:29] It's shifted it's gone to 15% awareness which is not bad, represent in a couple of years and on a basis as there so that's something that was interesting to know that people are listening.

[00:04:43] We also continue to focus on audio podcasts because we realize that video podcasts are becoming big but we decided to focus on audio and we realize that actually a lot of people love audio podcasts.

[00:04:59] So while video is emerging to be the next big trend, the younger generation prefers video etc but I think audio is not dying in a hurry.

[00:05:08] So for a lot of people who are out there wondering whether I should stay with audio or should I go with video I think audio still staying.

[00:05:15] The challenge may be getting money on the audio piece of it but audio podcasts are going to definitely be her.

[00:05:21] So I think that's what started us off.

[00:05:24] Our conversations started me off on this.

[00:05:26] So the recent election world a lot of focus back on psychology and research right so I was for me also to have a bit new feel and I was introduced to how the research is done right.

[00:05:41] So could you tell a bit about you know which cities, I mean the philosophy of your research for part first how.

[00:05:48] So like a urban phenomenon and like you know more widespread.

[00:05:53] So it is more like so what we did was we partnered with the idea group just to understand which cities are actually listening more.

[00:06:01] So from a listenership data we picked up top 10 cities of India.

[00:06:04] So we went to different places.

[00:06:08] So we went to of course Mumbai Delhi, Chennai Bang Bangalore, Calcutta and the bad luck now in the or partner.

[00:06:18] The one city which didn't emerge in the top 10 was actually Calcutta but we went to Calcutta because we realized.

[00:06:30] So Calcutta is a big role in.

[00:06:34] So Calcutta Dindi Maajam on set up 10 but we said we needed representation out of the East in India.

[00:06:41] So we went to Canada and what caught us by surprise was Jepur.

[00:06:45] So partner Jepur caught us by surprise.

[00:06:47] We didn't think that partner Jepur were going to come into it.

[00:06:49] But otherwise the other ones were fairly.

[00:06:52] We expected and dissipated and landed in the sea.

[00:06:55] So we did.

[00:06:57] Ten cities.

[00:06:58] So we went to 2000 170 people just to check on awareness.

[00:07:04] And this notion level.

[00:07:06] Then we went to 18 hundred people who were actual listeners and these were people who would have heard podcasts in the last three four six months.

[00:07:14] So we went to listeners and then we went into a deep dive with the listeners.

[00:07:18] What we also did, Malaysia is we identified a hundred people.

[00:07:25] Who were active listeners of podcast and we did a five day digital diary with them.

[00:07:31] So we actually got them to tell us what is in the life of the five days.

[00:07:36] So five days what their behaviors was.

[00:07:39] We actually got them to send us screenshots of the podcast.

[00:07:42] They were listening to the platforms they were listening to.

[00:07:45] Why were they listening to it?

[00:07:47] We asked them to do relationship trees with the podcast to understand what is the relationship that they have with a podcast.

[00:07:54] Is the podcast are more important?

[00:07:56] Is the podcast more important all of that?

[00:07:57] So five days of intense diary work where they were doing tasks and then we followed it up with focus groups with them.

[00:08:04] So we actually went into understanding.

[00:08:07] So we got the data saying for example,

[00:08:11] The Ranveer show is extremely popular across the country.

[00:08:15] Yes, more so in the north than the south but extremely popular.

[00:08:18] So that we got as content in the dimes.

[00:08:22] But why was he so popular?

[00:08:24] Was what happened when we did the focus groups at them.

[00:08:27] So we were able to understand the psychology of why the behaviors were happening.

[00:08:33] While we got all the behaviors from the quantitative and the diary.

[00:08:37] So the question therefore is that obviously this is extensive but you kind of doing it by yourself.

[00:08:44] So is there any comparable industry reported anyone else has done which is as exhaustive or anything comparable anywhere else?

[00:08:52] So there are reports elsewhere but I don't think we've come across a single report which has given you both the quantitative and the qualitative aspects.

[00:09:01] And the reason why we decided to do the quantitative and the qualitative is everybody puts out quantitative data.

[00:09:07] But that tells you what is happening.

[00:09:09] Nobody's telling you why somebody's being a simple platform specific.

[00:09:14] Even people do their own platform.

[00:09:16] Nobody does where is your people do cross platform?

[00:09:18] So there are international reports which are there which has cross platforms just to understand.

[00:09:23] But nobody does it in nobody's done it in there.

[00:09:25] So you get global data but you don't get in there data and the other thing is it's always quantitative.

[00:09:31] It's never been qualitative.

[00:09:33] It's never about going deeper into understanding why you motivated to listen to an audio-bursts.

[00:09:39] That's a big question.

[00:09:40] So we question when you mentioned all those cities and when I see Chennai, Bangalore, Mumbai and partner Jaipur al-Kamta.

[00:09:52] Did you find that is English, podcast more or regional vernacular this thing is more common?

[00:10:00] Honestly I think the growth in India is going to come largely from the vernacular space.

[00:10:05] It's going to come from regional languages.

[00:10:08] There are listeners to English podcasts but the challenge is you're not getting enough content in regional.

[00:10:15] So for example we had this one guy in Amthivar saying I would want to listen to it in Gujarati but I don't get enough in Gujarati.

[00:10:24] So he's listening to Hindi which is a great substitute for Gujarati but if you did podcast in Gujarati then you would get the listenership of that space.

[00:10:34] So this is a conversation.

[00:10:39] And that podcast in the whatever.

[00:10:43] But we always run into this issue that you never get the nuance.

[00:10:47] And especially since you did the qualitative analysis, I mean do people listen to it translated for probably not right?

[00:10:56] So interestingly, Kuku which does a lot of audiobook translations and sells it is a very large platform which came as a complete surprise to us.

[00:11:05] We'd heard of it but we didn't think it would feature so heavily.

[00:11:09] Also Kuku is one of those few platforms which gets heavily paid for because people want to listen to books in language.

[00:11:15] You know it was so strange my mom listened to it.

[00:11:19] It was very interesting yeah this vernacular content on.

[00:11:24] So we had these young kids who told us rich dad for dad the book getting translated.

[00:11:29] It's a book everybody in a certain generation wants to read and the fact that it's got translated into a language which is their first language really makes them work for it.

[00:11:42] So I don't know some you're on about the translation bit because I think it's about the nuance.

[00:11:48] So comedy for example in vernacular does exceedingly well because you pick the nuance of the place.

[00:11:56] Right and you get it so English comedy does well but Hindi does even better and you know Bengali.

[00:12:03] Bengali joke is a Bengali joke.

[00:12:05] I get to point because I guess what it is obviously if you're doing science and if you're doing science it's doing fact based things.

[00:12:12] Then you can translate because the fact that it is the same in another language but if you crack a reference to context,

[00:12:17] you can English very difficult to translate it into Tamil or any other language because there's no reference at all.

[00:12:24] Absolutely and also regional references are there. So I'm a Gujaratia.

[00:12:28] Everybody knows the third word of Gujaratis but there are inherent things that if you are a Gujaratia you will understand the behavior and you'll understand the nuance of it.

[00:12:40] Which maybe a Marash can won't get because that's not how the community operates.

[00:12:44] So I think the future definitely in India is going to be so if you did it in this year right.

[00:12:54] In the soul 23, 20, 20 years 24.

[00:12:56] So if you have to summarize the quantitative part of it you would say that today it is English more or no it isn't.

[00:13:05] It isn't Hindi still the largest.

[00:13:07] So English is the second but Hindi is the biggest.

[00:13:10] but this is very true relationship, most media know what we see typically like with these

[00:13:15] different variants, I think English channels in there. But then give it to all the English news

[00:13:20] is a microcosm of the regional news and it's like literally 10x or whatever you know,

[00:13:27] a fact set of something of the regional language so Hindi are a much more people are

[00:13:33] listening and therefore influence. So you know what you're seeing, English, you know,

[00:13:37] the opinions so balanced but that's not what is kind of. Yeah, no, it's Hindi first,

[00:13:43] it's the largest and then you have English and then all the other languages.

[00:13:49] The southern languages are kind of catching up but you're not seeing as much in Karnad and Tamil

[00:13:53] and things like that. It's generally was there right? Yeah, it's a nice, almost on top of it.

[00:13:58] So it will be, but it's a little more English or a little less Tamil but

[00:14:03] Calcutta for example, there's some podcasts which are doing exceedingly well in Bengali.

[00:14:10] The other interesting thing is that you know, when we went into this research, my assumption was

[00:14:16] that the older generation would prefer each and the younger generation would prefer English.

[00:14:24] To why surprise? No, the younger generation is equally happy listening to regional languages

[00:14:29] and it's also very interesting because I remember this one girl who's a pingoli for whatever reasons.

[00:14:38] But she actually said that it is so important to stay in touch with the roots that she goes back

[00:14:47] to listening to things in socialism, Mumbai but she listens to her podcasts also in Bengali because

[00:14:54] she feels like it's closer to her roots and that I thought was a very very interesting thing

[00:15:01] to figure that the younger generation is going back to listen to it in their mother tongue because

[00:15:07] it makes them feel connected to the roots. So, so yeah, I was looking at that report and there

[00:15:13] was one. So why didn't you tell us about those couple of those trends that you saw which were

[00:15:17] more qualitative now? I'll say rather than you know, the number given trends.

[00:15:22] So when we went into the research, everybody told us that with YouTube coming in into podcasts

[00:15:28] and things like that it's going to be video all the way and all of that. So when we chose to

[00:15:33] deep time into audio, I was a little tentative saying should we only do audio should be to audio

[00:15:38] video etc. And we said no, we'll jump into audio. We can do video in the next report that we do.

[00:15:45] And so while video is gaining traction, we found that audio is doing exceedingly well and we

[00:15:52] asked them why. And they said work from home happened. I'm constantly in front of a screen.

[00:16:00] So whether it's your laptop or it's your OTT, so television or it's your phone and you know,

[00:16:13] on the eyes that they want a detox out of screens. So one of the big reasons for

[00:16:22] audio podcasts doing well is a sonic respite. So they want to move away from a digital overload

[00:16:28] and say, okay, I want to listen. I need it and that will bring me to the second trend. So they

[00:16:34] want something but they didn't want it as video. So it's interesting. I don't know whether it

[00:16:41] comes to you and this is the question to you. So whether it goes a part of your collet into research,

[00:16:46] I have seen personally when I look at when I hear a podcast, okay, there is a certain level

[00:16:53] of retention of information. When I look at a video, I think for me it drops. And as tell

[00:16:59] you how further it drops. If I look at a video with subtitles, it drops further. I mean,

[00:17:05] I'm seeing retention. I might enjoy it but I really don't. So there are some movies where there is

[00:17:11] a bad audio and you start looking at, you know, the correct. So time is that.

[00:17:17] And then you're not really so really like for me, I personally felt the pure audio one,

[00:17:24] my retention was higher. So I would gravitate towards, you know, the science technology or fact based

[00:17:31] probably I have never heard a story based thing. I don't know, so I won't comment.

[00:17:36] But I think that's right, that I think in the radio world, I think it is,

[00:17:42] what do you say? Senior radio broadcasts are that the radio lens is at the imagination.

[00:17:50] So when you hear a story, so if you are making a star wars and you put something on screen,

[00:17:58] it is what it is. But if you hear a star wars, you can imagine anything and my imagination

[00:18:03] and your house will be completely different. So that experiences I think very different.

[00:18:09] And I don't know if this plays a part or know that regional language wise is that one is of course

[00:18:14] literacy, they're not a community understandings English. So if you're comfortable in your native

[00:18:17] tongue, then you'll like to listen. And number two, the previous silly reason that audio bandwidth is less

[00:18:23] than video bandwidth. So it's just a means, right, because you can for the same amount of money,

[00:18:29] maybe listen, then or might have changed by the way, but I can only say that obviously there is

[00:18:36] some element of audio truth in it is that even the Prime Minister chooses monkey bar in an

[00:18:41] audio format and of course it gets transferred. But obviously he also knows that that

[00:18:47] is much at that maybe somewhere very far away, maybe there is no TV, somebody still has a

[00:18:54] radio set that is broadcasting as opposed to a TV. So yeah there is some truth in this audio business.

[00:19:00] So you know, Nilech, for what you are saying, we had a couple of them say that I feel

[00:19:06] there are memory loss over when I'm wanting to watch a video. I think the other challenge that is happening

[00:19:12] is that our attention spans are becoming very, very poor because we have so much of overload.

[00:19:20] All of us, I don't know, there was a time when I could sit for two hours and read a book nonstop.

[00:19:26] Today I can't. I must to take a break. And I think that's what's happening. So now you have

[00:19:32] really short passages where you get distracted by something or the other. What's up, pops up,

[00:19:38] something else will happen. None of us has the bandwidth. So a lot of them are talking about the fact

[00:19:44] that when you're so much into you and when it's video, you tend to kind of just skim over it.

[00:19:52] From your perspective of imagination, what we found interesting is that parents are willing to let

[00:20:00] their kids listen to podcasts more than they're willing to do. They don't do TV dinners out there.

[00:20:07] This is where I am so happy to be in such a parents in this country,

[00:20:12] because they're not our own dirty right now. I think, but the fact is what is saying is that today

[00:20:20] when you give access to video, despite putting all kinds of net manys and all of that, the kid gets

[00:20:28] access to certain things. What happens with audio is that the mother is listening to the

[00:20:34] girl. That's what happens. It doesn't work that way. Also, the child is watching it or listening

[00:20:42] to it on the parents phone, which means there's more control. True, true. So to that extent,

[00:20:47] the exposure, I mean dirty diner and porn to that, you know, an audio format may not make any sense

[00:20:53] to a child. And not so, really. Yeah. So that's another thing. And they all talk about the fact

[00:21:00] that it allows for imagination to happen. And that's why I think audio works very well, which is why

[00:21:07] so if I go to the genres, true crime does exceedingly well. Because a lot of them say that,

[00:21:14] or so I have a lot of women who said horror and true crime work, because when you watch or

[00:21:20] watch, true crime, there is a goreeness attached to it. When you listen to it, it's in your

[00:21:27] imagination. Right? So you can control how horrible it gets. So single ad as a person, the

[00:21:33] first of that I remember that when we were going to go, there was this movie that comes to

[00:21:37] called evil dead. Yeah. Because it's supposed to be really bad. But they actually said that

[00:21:41] you know, watching evil dead without sound is not as frightening as watching it with sound.

[00:21:47] Can sound actually has this. I mean, it can't have that they're able to build up anticipation

[00:21:52] and then that time I accidentally, you know, this something is going to happen. And you know,

[00:21:58] that happens with, I'm assuming I'm using music as an audio thing as a part of the movie. So sound

[00:22:04] is a big part of all this. So the first trend that I was talking about was this whole, I want

[00:22:11] a sonic respite. The other very interesting thing one for us was, and this is more the younger generation

[00:22:18] millennials and onwards is they are always filling gaps. They don't want, they don't want

[00:22:28] moments of peace with themselves or silence, which is what we have very comfortable with.

[00:22:31] Our generation I think is very okay with that. These guys constantly need to fill it because

[00:22:38] there is so much loneliness. It is so bizarre. And I just one girl who spoke so frankly to us, she said,

[00:22:44] you know, in the middle we look at social media. I mean, they are phoma. So you're living that because

[00:22:51] you're seeing this one's gone there, this one's wearing this dress, this one's eating over there,

[00:22:55] whatever she says we know it's fake. Sometimes it's all not true but we're watching it.

[00:23:01] And she says, phoma create it. Then Rathopiram, mythology and motivational speakers

[00:23:08] on day so that we feel better about ourselves. And it's a cycle. So it's like phoma motivation repeat.

[00:23:17] That's their life. But there is a paradox of loneliness. So the more they are on social media,

[00:23:24] the more lonely they are and they're constantly filling the gap and that gap often gets filled in with

[00:23:30] audio. So that's another one. The third very interesting thing for us, which I think is a global trend

[00:23:37] but very large in India is this whole thing of going back to your cultural roots. Because

[00:23:44] what's happened is we've had a breaking down with the whole family system whether so I thought that was

[00:23:51] we know that that's not a matter of phenomenon anymore. Tier 2, Tier 3 has also gone into the space.

[00:23:57] When you have that breaking down kids now don't have access to cultural roots. So when we grow up,

[00:24:05] our grandmothers would tell us stories, kangania's all of that right? Where do you go now? Because

[00:24:12] either the grandparents are living in different cities. The new age grandparents have a life

[00:24:17] of their own and they're not looking after the kids right. So even if they're living in the house

[00:24:21] they have their own personal lives and they've put children have finding these gaps and

[00:24:27] what was interesting for us is a lot of them are going to podcasts to get to those cultural stories.

[00:24:34] So the reason why I'm out of her it does very well is one is it's a first telling you how to

[00:24:40] live life but the other is I know what is happening. In the lots of them like in Calcutta you will

[00:24:47] listen to Tagore, right? And things like that. So it's a good job you find that there is you know

[00:24:54] old literature which was there which is getting a revival thanks to partners because that's

[00:25:00] killing in the gaps and the need for going back to cultural roots. Whether we like it or not

[00:25:05] I think there is a certain changing sense of pride of being Indian and now you want to know what

[00:25:10] it means to be Indian. All this while you were vaping the West and adapting, now we're saying

[00:25:16] no I'm proud to be Indian now let me go back and figure out a lesson. Yeah Indian podcast

[00:25:20] reform are more popular in India than the international version. And this is very interesting because

[00:25:27] if you remember our episode with Amish and he mentioned that essentially the culture part of India

[00:25:35] is scriptures and it is passed on from one generation to another through oral history right.

[00:25:44] I mean so that oral history thing was very I think Amish doubt about it I I did somewhere else also

[00:25:49] it's the most powerful form actually of a building culture and I think you're absolutely right somewhere

[00:25:56] I do a post story is completely I mean all of it. So so I think I can relate with that totally

[00:26:04] and so it's getting it was dying and I think it's got a revival thanks to that. So

[00:26:11] what was interesting for us is that amongst the genres it came across as mythology and it didn't

[00:26:17] it was one specific part of stuff. So down south you will listening to Mahabharat but there

[00:26:25] version of the Mahabharat and he looked that's the truth right. Our versions of the Mahabharat also

[00:26:30] changed depending on where you are from. So down south has a different literature of not as a

[00:26:35] different literature and that's what builds it for you so I think that's it. And either which

[00:26:41] I mean I'm pretty sure with the kind of access to media and everything youngsters have today

[00:26:47] reading that Mahabharata and I have actually picked up the original Ramayana and tried to read once

[00:26:52] it's very difficult to read the actual scripture. So stories the only and best form of a

[00:26:58] little yet transcribed literally, you can't read it correctly. So even the Bhagwat Gita you can

[00:27:09] read the Bhagwat Gita and assimilate but when somebody like a you know one of the spiritual leaders

[00:27:15] comes in tells you the story and actually how should I say demystifies all of it for you and put

[00:27:23] it in a cultural context. I think it makes it easier to assimilate that's it that's it.

[00:27:28] That's what people are looking at and that's quite interesting. So yeah that's one part of the

[00:27:35] report we can go on and on but let's take a break and see where we want to take the next questions.

[00:27:40] Oh so I guess now that we've talked about I guess the obvious only one would be that

[00:27:47] is there an outlook that kind of emerged or like a two, three year horizon you know this will

[00:27:54] look better that will grow or you know something else will happen. So let's take a quick break and

[00:28:00] come to that. Okay. So you know the life of a podcast that is really really tough as we have said earlier

[00:28:19] the attention span of a human being is less than that of a goldfish. So it's like less than eight

[00:28:24] seconds. So you're going to get cats them in that much time. However there are some very

[00:28:29] die-hard podcastes so apparently the world record for the longest podcast is held by two

[00:28:34] Australians which is 36 hours nonstop talking. Wow. So but yeah so that's what I mean by die-hard podcastes.

[00:28:43] So but I think for all of us you know we've already struggled with this thing. You know what is

[00:28:49] the creator, the podcast and you know how does the ecosystem grow and we keep it up with

[00:28:54] the ecosystem in other areas. So one is the you know the podcast making the effort from

[00:29:00] taking away others and then there's the I don't promote as the agmit it is the platforms and

[00:29:05] that which kind of ties into what we left of the what is the future and you know it cannot just be

[00:29:10] individual ex-sellers you know trying to push their ways there has to be something more of these

[00:29:15] of you know what's the outlook looking at us anybody having a great insights there. So something

[00:29:21] that has part of the research we also interviewed some bot ask us right? Because we wanted to get

[00:29:27] so the so the interesting thing is that we actually said we would also get the platforms to

[00:29:32] comment speak to us and we approached all of them I think practically none of them was really

[00:29:38] a good thing information. So I think they are all holding onto this information as power kind of

[00:29:46] a space so we decided to drop that part of it. We spoke to everyone I think it is a large one

[00:29:52] and but we said at least let's get the podcast a perspective. So from audience retention,

[00:30:00] is it seven seconds etc that was another question. So there's lots of questions that

[00:30:05] are the bot answers in terms of what is a good time for duration for the podcast when do they

[00:30:12] listen to podcasts like all of us are wanting right do you listen to a podcast in the morning

[00:30:16] do you listen to it at night when do you listen to a podcast so the report answers all of that.

[00:30:22] I went in with the thought because everybody kept saying we don't have attention spans we don't

[00:30:26] have attention spans we do long podcast 30 45 minutes and I know we started with one hour and we've

[00:30:34] stopped in the middle of 30 minutes and you're people dropping off etc. People listen so I think

[00:30:40] content is still holds. So you have so most of the consumer say between 15 to 30 minutes is a good

[00:30:55] time. But if you look at the zero dog right his podcast are very long and they're two of

[00:31:05] it sometimes and people listening to it they may not listen to it at one stretch but they finish

[00:31:12] the entire thing and the reason why they do that is because they say that the content is extremely

[00:31:17] extremely strong and powerful. So when you learn something when something adds value to your life

[00:31:23] then you are willing to give it. So we had so many people who said oh I listened to it in half of it

[00:31:28] so in the morning I listened to half an hour I listened to it in the afternoon or evening for half an hour

[00:31:33] and I covered a one hour part of it so it happens. So depending on whether the content is really

[00:31:39] powerful or not so you have an uncle Variku who does bite size and then who also does learning but does

[00:31:44] bite size and then you have the zero dog guys who do it for really long. He does a very long part.

[00:31:53] He's like you said depending on the what you're getting out of it. So I think content still

[00:31:59] rooms so that decides whether your podcast will be heard or not. Having said that every single

[00:32:06] podcast that told me that you get into podcasting only if you have the passion for podcasting.

[00:32:13] If you get into it thinking that I'm should become a millionaire billionaire it's a jorogan

[00:32:18] which rarely happens in the middle of the unicorn. So that is not the role of podcast because

[00:32:27] I think unfortunately the ecosystem podcast is being treated as secondary to music so whether it's

[00:32:36] a Spotify gun you know wing whatever they all cheat music as the primary source and podcast as

[00:32:44] secondary source despite the fact that consumers are now listening to vodka. So a couple of years

[00:32:49] of people one podcast used to be there now people as they mature they go pick up a second podcast

[00:32:55] and a third podcast. So they are increasing the number of podcasts that they're listening to

[00:33:00] but I don't think that the ecosystem is pushing for it. I think it's really

[00:33:06] the podcasters and the creators who are creating that ecosystem. So they are the ones who are

[00:33:11] putting it on social media and then somebody discovers them and then gets hooked onto it.

[00:33:17] So that's very strange because the platforms are not doing it at all.

[00:33:20] That's very strange. And using the same 12, 13, 15% penetration in the country.

[00:33:26] It's been 80, 10% un-penetrated. So it's that the market goes every one will grow but

[00:33:32] they're still eating. But the ecosystem is not as supportive. So it's very strange. So one

[00:33:37] of thought that platforms will do a lot more to grow it because then it makes sense then you

[00:33:43] can get the advertising. You know the other thing is we also asked consumers if they were okay

[00:33:49] with advertising on podcasts, right? Because that's a big question. And the truth of the matter is

[00:33:56] that they're saying so will you pay for a podcast or would you have an add on a podcast? Most people

[00:34:00] have now got trained that I will listen to an add because YouTube's straight into you. Right?

[00:34:05] See the hide seconds or 10 seconds of add if you want it free. I think the consumer has prepared

[00:34:11] as long as you don't in the middle of a crime story in the middle of, you know, the most

[00:34:15] serious moment you don't put an add in they're okay. The other interesting thing is podcast

[00:34:21] is communicating brands has far more weight than just an add because there is now a relationship

[00:34:29] that has been built with the podcast. So podcast sources, brand ambassadors is a big thing but

[00:34:35] I don't think brands are leveraging that. And so advertisers are missing out on it because everybody

[00:34:41] is trying to use a traditional method of how many views, how many down those, how many lessons,

[00:34:47] how many whatever. But tell me one space where you get somebody listening to a podcast or anybody

[00:34:55] for 30 minutes on the wagon. That's where you've got to start thinking of in different and not just

[00:35:02] I'll dump an add in it or I will do something. So it's about really rethinking the way you

[00:35:07] would engage with your consumer, which I don't think anybody is doing. So 30 minutes of a

[00:35:13] tentative listenership versus, you know, 3 million followers. That's the trade of that you're doing.

[00:35:19] But I think that's where advertisers are falling. The platforms are not really promoting podcast.

[00:35:25] Spotify doesn't benefit and so does geo in that soon. So then promoting partners within their

[00:35:32] space. But again, a lot of podcast sources will tell that if I have to pay so much to promote

[00:35:38] the podcast, it makes no sense. The other thing that partners does are doing is this is like the

[00:35:42] top of the funnel for them. So it's not really bottom of the funnel way. So the podcast is really

[00:35:48] a promotion space and then business is coming from us. So that's where the challenges. And I think

[00:35:57] the other big issue is that we need to bring in quality control because like you said 4 million

[00:36:06] podcasts with multiple episodes. But what is the sense check on the quality of the podcast?

[00:36:14] Because let's say I get introduced to a podcast and then it turns out to be a crappy quality

[00:36:19] podcast. Then I drop off and I never come back. So that's something I think everybody says,

[00:36:25] it's easy to do a podcast that needs a podcast but doesn't work like that. You've got to give

[00:36:29] a quality production for it to do.

[00:36:31] But we're pushing that way. Like a market decided. I mean, since if it's bad, they will not listen.

[00:36:35] It's good. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's good.

[00:36:37] No, no, you know, just a banding with the issue is I'm just thinking what she told just said.

[00:36:44] But if I, if I on my work, I listened to a music, I now want to switch to a podcast and then

[00:36:50] first podcast I hear is crappy. I mean, never come back to podcasts itself to search and that might

[00:36:56] be true because I was just making a parallel. Right? You have access to even put your music.

[00:37:02] Okay, right? Very easily. But the thing is that you know, you may never get hurt because there

[00:37:09] are really good music there. But podcasts, you might because there is no such like

[00:37:14] barring one or two, you're not defining brands and podcasts. So you might pick up a one which is

[00:37:20] really crappy. And then there's a lot of barista as you're some singing and talking that

[00:37:25] is what you're doing. That's a different thing. But you know, you're right, seeing a nice and

[00:37:32] category music is not nice. Yeah. No, that's a much more good guy. You know your artists,

[00:37:37] you know the playlist. You create those playlists. It's all of that is there.

[00:37:43] Podcasting is a very nice and space. The journey of the consumer is right now at the first level.

[00:37:50] Right? They've not, we're not a mature market unlike the US for example. We're not as much

[00:37:56] or as a market. Now in an immature market where somebody is experimenting with the first experiences

[00:38:01] bad, you're going to say I'm never going to go back to it. The industry knows this. And I think

[00:38:06] that's where the need for quality check and making sure that we're putting our quality product

[00:38:12] is both on the creator and on the platform. So I won't just recommend that people just start

[00:38:19] with drink tech is better. Isn't the best? It's the podcast. The podcast listening podcast.

[00:38:26] Absolutely. Don't say it. So so if I had to just you know, summarize what you're trying to say

[00:38:34] advertising, there is no support from advertising. There's no support from platforms. It's essentially

[00:38:40] a creator, a developer. A creator led kind of a model probably in the web three words. The podcast

[00:38:48] would be the king. I think about it. A creator led things is getting you 12%

[00:38:56] listeners and which is the third largest market in the country in the world. Then where do you

[00:39:03] think is the potential of this space right? And the more you get into audio and video both. So

[00:39:08] YouTube music is creating confusion right now, but I think at some point in time they will stop

[00:39:12] creating confusion because most people get a little lost when you say audio podcasts video podcast.

[00:39:19] You cast a lot of it. Maybe that's a way for YouTube to brand date. But there is something which

[00:39:28] is available there, but I think there is a lot more that this industry needs to do. I had heard

[00:39:35] I think I don't know whether we talked about I think one of the big easter it was an Amazon or

[00:39:40] Netflix. They did kind of put up a lot of budget at one point of time for podcasts. It just didn't

[00:39:47] take off in US. It was not globally, but they were trying to but yeah I think some embedders from

[00:39:53] platform is needed. And it's sustained. This is not like again it's not like a I mean like

[00:39:58] it's a good like a good thing. It's just like how is it different? I mean you have to kind of

[00:40:04] put three years into words. Then you'll see some episode. No and I like what Sheetal mentioned

[00:40:10] and I hope so advertisers are listening about it because if a person is listening to someone

[00:40:16] for 30 minutes plus mind-estend. It's a big area where you will listen to that person if

[00:40:25] that person talks about a brand and hopefully it might also get bad name at someone or

[00:40:31] trying but if the brand is kind of in line or gels with the theme, it will be very powerful

[00:40:38] message. I mean rather than arguably looking at a holding or something.

[00:40:44] One can learn from various things. It's a five second, 10 second whatever and give them a

[00:40:50] skip option if it comes to that point is that there is potential and the point is that there

[00:40:56] is and there's a relationship. It's a big issue that we figured out in these researchers also

[00:41:04] they actually build a relationship with the podcast and that would be very, very powerful because

[00:41:11] I mean look what is your relationship with film stars right? It's a one-way relationship.

[00:41:19] There isn't a podcast thing it can easily become a two-way relationship where you can

[00:41:23] have interactions where it's not completely inaccessible. That potential which is available.

[00:41:30] I think a lot of brands are not looking at this. So that brings me to a very quick,

[00:41:35] you know interesting question just problem. Is there a space for life podcasting

[00:41:41] interactive, interactive, but most of these podcasts are recorded right? Do you know

[00:41:46] how I'm not having any of them? There are life podcasts that what is that? The infinite monkey cage

[00:41:51] so that one then that interaction possibility. But that's the point in the list that if you

[00:41:57] explore you will find that this works. So it's like a LinkedIn live. Why did it do well? It's because

[00:42:04] somebody experimented with it. I'm sure the podcast is going to be a very good place that the

[00:42:09] BBC, the guests, the people are podcasting very good. But in the get-and-ordians and it happens

[00:42:15] in front of a live audience and stuff like that. So the potential is that it's how you take this

[00:42:20] format and work with it which is going to make the difference. So I think if we can ship the needed

[00:42:26] from 15% awareness to 30% awareness and listenership the game changes because the numbers change

[00:42:34] dramatically. So yeah I think there is potential audio video whichever way we decide to go

[00:42:40] but there is and I think that's something we should kind of look at. And that's why I think

[00:42:45] I've always said let's continue. We'll see three decades, but because I think there is potential

[00:42:51] in this space. So think of millions of questions you think where do we get this report?

[00:43:00] Yeah so it's not available for free. For sure. So if you go to our website which is on

[00:43:07] PackrySearch.com it is available on the website it's also available on the idavouro website.

[00:43:14] So it's available for a small sum on our website.

[00:43:19] Fantastic. Great. So with that I think thanks a lot.

[00:43:26] It's a two day U.R. guys in a way. It feels so strange.

[00:43:30] So that brings us to an end of another episode of 3 TAKIS BANTER, a podcast about partners this time

[00:43:39] and yeah we'll continue our BANTER next time. This reminds me of the podcast we did with you

[00:43:44] when you went to Natalia. Oh yeah I'm really feeling very limp down now right now.

[00:43:49] You're not tired. And you can do something. Yes. So it reminds me about the time and we spoke about

[00:43:54] all the experience you had at this year. So I think it's just one of those moments.

[00:44:00] I mean in time you picked up your bags and went somewhere and did something.

[00:44:04] Thank you guys and hope that you find enough in this conversation to want to go and buy a report.

[00:44:12] It will add a lot of value to your decision making on whether you should invest in podcasts as a medium or not.

[00:44:20] Thank you. Thank you.