In this episode of the Thrifty Titans Podcast, we connect with Sarbojit Mallick, the co-founder and CBO of Instahyre - a leading AI-driven hiring platform among startup companies in India. Instahyre has revolutionized India's startup jobs market by enabling recruiters from over 10,000 organizations, such as Google, Amazon, Flipkart, Microsoft, and Swiggy, to effortlessly hire top-notch talent.
During our conversation, we delve into the significance of an Ivy League education in today's competitive job market and discuss what brands search for in exceptional candidates. We also explore compensation trends and engage in the ever-present generalist versus specialist debate for mid-career professionals.
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00:00:09
Saikat Pyne: Hello. I'm sa marketer, creative and all around Alpha nerd.
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Saikat Pyne: Welcome to the you incorporated podcast on this show. I
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Saikat Pyne: catch up with some truly bad ass entrepreneurs, business leaders,
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Saikat Pyne: marketers and content creators to discuss thoughts, stories and ideas
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Saikat Pyne: at the intersection of business influence and design. If you
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Saikat Pyne: want to stay ahead of the curve and build your
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Saikat Pyne: brand your voice your way, you're in the right place.
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Saikat Pyne: Hello? Hello. Welcome to the you Incorporated podcast. Please join
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Saikat Pyne: me in welcoming SHAJEET Malik, the Co-founder and chief business
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Saikat Pyne: officer of Insta Hire an advanced E I led hiring
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Saikat Pyne: platform that has enabled recruiters from over 10 companies, including
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Saikat Pyne: the likes of Google, Amazon flip card Microsoft and Spy
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Saikat Pyne: to hire top talent effort. Leslie
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Saikat Pyne: Strait is an expert in leveraging tech for recruitment and
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Saikat Pyne: helps enterprise talent acquisition teams succeed in their recruitment goals.
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Saikat Pyne: In this episode, we'll discuss career planning, job search strategies
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Saikat Pyne: that work and much more with him. Welcome to
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Sarbojit Mallick: the podcast strategy.
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Sarbojit Mallick: Hey, Thank you for the introduction. I'm happy to be
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Sarbojit Mallick: here with all of you.
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Saikat Pyne: So in the course of the show, we'll get insider
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Saikat Pyne: scoops from you about hiring processes at some of these
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Saikat Pyne: bigger startups and m n CS in the country, and
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Saikat Pyne: we'll try and demystify how our listeners can use your
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Saikat Pyne: insights and get ahead in their career. What is the
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Saikat Pyne: typical brief? A job brief that an enterprises would
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Sarbojit Mallick: approach you with like it's basically very candidate centric? OK,
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Sarbojit Mallick: so it depends on the candidate personality.
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Sarbojit Mallick: And when we gauge a certain personality, then only we
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Sarbojit Mallick: show them the rules, which they will be suited for.
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Sarbojit Mallick: So it depends on a different person of the candidate
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Sarbojit Mallick: where they come from. And what are the companies they
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Sarbojit Mallick: are working with? What are the technological skills or non
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Sarbojit Mallick: technological skills which they possess? What are
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Sarbojit Mallick: their preference is OK, and we understand all these points,
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Sarbojit Mallick: and then we show them the jobs. And how
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Saikat Pyne: much does the perceived brand value of your current employer?
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Saikat Pyne: How much of a role does that play? In terms
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Saikat Pyne: of the job opportunities, you might land with some of
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Saikat Pyne: the bigger startups and m n CS
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Sarbojit Mallick: in the country,
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Sarbojit Mallick: so brand plays a big role in this. But I'll
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Sarbojit Mallick: tell you one thing. Candidates they prefer, the rule like
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Sarbojit Mallick: role is valued much much higher than the brand, because
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Sarbojit Mallick: if you can see in the freshers or the mid
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Sarbojit Mallick: career people like 5 to 10 years of experience, they
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Sarbojit Mallick: will always prefer rules, which they can
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Sarbojit Mallick: help themselves to get better opportunities in the near future.
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Sarbojit Mallick: For that, roles are the most important thing, not the brands.
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Sarbojit Mallick: So everyone refers roles which are suited with this. And
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Sarbojit Mallick: I personally also advocate this because companies they do hire
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Sarbojit Mallick: for skills right now, they do not hire for pedigrees.
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Sarbojit Mallick: On the other hand, candidates also they prefer
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Sarbojit Mallick: and job roles which may be interesting, which will which
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Sarbojit Mallick: are very aligned to what they are thinking, how they're
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Sarbojit Mallick: thinking and how they operate than brands providing roles which
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Sarbojit Mallick: might not be suitable for them. And they might not
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Sarbojit Mallick: be aligned. Maybe after working for six months, they realise
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Sarbojit Mallick: that no, this is not my cup of tea and
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Sarbojit Mallick: then they want to
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Saikat Pyne: shift. We are a status driven society, and there has
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Saikat Pyne: been over the past couple of years this
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Saikat Pyne: quote unquote signalling that you do with the perceived brand
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Saikat Pyne: value of your employer or more with your education is
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Saikat Pyne: the value of the tag of of an I V
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Saikat Pyne: League education. Is that diminishing? Are brands coming to you
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Saikat Pyne: more for
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Sarbojit Mallick: skill? Would they prefer somebody with
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Saikat Pyne: lesser demonstrated skill, but with an education tag? Or would
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Saikat Pyne: they prefer somebody with the skill set? But he is
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Saikat Pyne: from like
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Sarbojit Mallick: a Tier two college,
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Sarbojit Mallick: the second one. So right now, if you see India
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Sarbojit Mallick: is going through a sea change, the mentality is also
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Sarbojit Mallick: changing
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Sarbojit Mallick: at some point of time. 10 years back if I
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Sarbojit Mallick: take you 10 years back 15 years back, it was
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Sarbojit Mallick: mainly pedigree, right? It was all the Tier one colleges,
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Sarbojit Mallick: all the cream of India going to companies which are
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Sarbojit Mallick: very highly regarded. And these companies usually went to campuses
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Sarbojit Mallick: usually and after lateral hires. Also, they will do from
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Sarbojit Mallick: this tier one, or like the top 10 colleges.
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Sarbojit Mallick: Right now, it's completely changed. Right now. It's basically upon skill.
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Sarbojit Mallick: When they assess skill, they will assess that. How important
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Sarbojit Mallick: is this candidate for my company?
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Sarbojit Mallick: And in that if a person who is who has
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Sarbojit Mallick: never had a college degree but knows better development or
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Sarbojit Mallick: can sell better than a person who has a an
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Sarbojit Mallick: Ivy League degree, that person will have an upper hand.
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Sarbojit Mallick: OK, and there are many companies, even the larger ones
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Sarbojit Mallick: also behaving this way. And we have seen from data
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Sarbojit Mallick: from our own insta inside data that in the last
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Sarbojit Mallick: one year, 1.5 years, that has been the change. Where
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Sarbojit Mallick: companies are looking for skill and skill is more preferred
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Sarbojit Mallick: than pedigree
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Sarbojit Mallick: in the tech community. Yes, it's it is. It's very
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Sarbojit Mallick: common in the last 1, 1.5 years in a non
00:05:53
Sarbojit Mallick: tech community. Also, it's becoming common, so I may safely
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Sarbojit Mallick: say that within, like, a couple of years or three
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Sarbojit Mallick: years down the line, it will be purely based on skill.
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Sarbojit Mallick: And yes, uh, we have seen Tier two tier three,
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Sarbojit Mallick: even without any college education, self taught developers, self taught salespeople,
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Sarbojit Mallick: self taught designers getting pretty good jobs and jobs at,
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Sarbojit Mallick: like the largest M n CS or the largest startups
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Sarbojit Mallick: or the Unicorns. How
00:06:21
Saikat Pyne: is the role of online job portal changing now that
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Saikat Pyne: there is no uniform skill platform?
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Saikat Pyne: Are brands taking it on themselves to conduct these tests?
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Saikat Pyne: Or does the owners then fall on the online, Uh,
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Saikat Pyne: job portals like insta I
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Sarbojit Mallick: Yeah. So second, Excellent question. I want to divide this
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Sarbojit Mallick: question into three parts. OK, so if you see the
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Sarbojit Mallick: change which has been there for the last 10 years
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Sarbojit Mallick: and then companies preferring skill over pedigree is because of
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Sarbojit Mallick: the advent of online education.
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Sarbojit Mallick: OK, there's a lot of online stuff going around and
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Sarbojit Mallick: people can learn all the things over Internet. They do
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Sarbojit Mallick: not go to college. And I have seen, like mechanical
00:07:09
Sarbojit Mallick: engineer being a very good developer. I have seen the
00:07:12
Sarbojit Mallick: chemical engineer becoming very good. U X designers. If you
00:07:15
Sarbojit Mallick: go to LinkedIn and you check out the best designers
00:07:18
Sarbojit Mallick: or the best engine managers CTO s,
00:07:21
Sarbojit Mallick: you will find that mostly they are from they are
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Sarbojit Mallick: self learn. OK, they have taught themselves So this is
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Sarbojit Mallick: number one and we have seen self learning getting into
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Sarbojit Mallick: the next level. With the advent of education over online media,
00:07:35
Sarbojit Mallick: there are schools. There are colleges which are presenting their
00:07:39
Sarbojit Mallick: courses everywhere. We have YouTube where you can easily learn
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Sarbojit Mallick: any kind of things if you have the dedication to
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Sarbojit Mallick: so that is number one.
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Sarbojit Mallick: Number two companies believe in more giving out like hackathons
00:07:52
Sarbojit Mallick: and tests where they want to have a bunch of
00:07:55
Sarbojit Mallick: people and they take the test and bases on that test,
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Sarbojit Mallick: which is a skill based test, obviously, which is an
00:08:01
Sarbojit Mallick: aptitude based test or skill based test. After that, they
00:08:05
Sarbojit Mallick: continue the hire.
00:08:07
Sarbojit Mallick: Plus we have. The change has been located on our platform,
00:08:12
Sarbojit Mallick: also which we use a lot of machine learning OK
00:08:15
Sarbojit Mallick: to understand a candidate psyche. And with that we understand
00:08:18
Sarbojit Mallick: if the candidate is really good or not. How
00:08:21
Sarbojit Mallick: if the candidate starts contributing a lot of stuff on
00:08:25
Sarbojit Mallick: github and and gets a lot of traction on github,
00:08:27
Sarbojit Mallick: so that person might be good if the candidate has
00:08:31
Sarbojit Mallick: a lot of certification and does work on very critical
00:08:35
Sarbojit Mallick: projects in very good companies may not. The candidate may
00:08:38
Sarbojit Mallick: be from a tier two tier three college, but he
00:08:40
Sarbojit Mallick: or she has worked in certain projects, which are very good.
00:08:43
Sarbojit Mallick: So then we understand the psyche of the candidate, and
00:08:47
Sarbojit Mallick: then we
00:08:47
Sarbojit Mallick: start showing them jobs which are relevant for them. So
00:08:50
Sarbojit Mallick: this is how we have evolved our system. So our
00:08:53
Sarbojit Mallick: technology learns from these actions, learns from So suppose a
00:08:58
Sarbojit Mallick: candidate from an Ivy League versus a tier three applies. OK,
00:09:02
Sarbojit Mallick: so I'm talking about two candidates when they apply. We
00:09:05
Sarbojit Mallick: see all the data points where they are applying, why
00:09:07
Sarbojit Mallick: they are applying and after a certain stages. We see that, OK,
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Sarbojit Mallick: these guys are passing the test,
00:09:13
Sarbojit Mallick: whereas this guy is not passing the test. So that
00:09:16
Sarbojit Mallick: way we create a model, a mathematical model and we
00:09:19
Sarbojit Mallick: suggest candidates to these kind of companies we have seen
00:09:23
Sarbojit Mallick: with that. A lot of guys who are very skillful
00:09:27
Sarbojit Mallick: and we have self learned and self taught themselves are
00:09:31
Sarbojit Mallick: getting better jobs a day by day. Yes, that is there.
00:09:34
Sarbojit Mallick: So there are three things to it. The education which
00:09:37
Sarbojit Mallick: is mostly free right now test
00:09:39
Sarbojit Mallick: which is done by companies to find out who the
00:09:42
Sarbojit Mallick: best candidates are There. You'll find a lot of hackathons
00:09:45
Sarbojit Mallick: going around, a lot of assignments going around, and then
00:09:48
Sarbojit Mallick: we have, like photos like us who use a lot
00:09:52
Sarbojit Mallick: of machine learning and artificial intelligence to find out this
00:09:55
Sarbojit Mallick: candidate base and show them jobs which actually suits them,
00:09:59
Sarbojit Mallick: suit their
00:10:00
Saikat Pyne: skills. You said something very interesting. Education is free.
00:10:05
Saikat Pyne: Yeah, So in this age, where education is free on
00:10:10
Saikat Pyne: course are on on YouTube. How do you think the
00:10:14
Saikat Pyne: role of higher
00:10:15
Sarbojit Mallick: education will change? The colleges have been very adaptive to
00:10:19
Sarbojit Mallick: this change in attitude of the candidates because they have
00:10:23
Sarbojit Mallick: introduced courses. They encourage people to join other courses also,
00:10:27
Sarbojit Mallick: but they encourage online education Also.
00:10:30
Sarbojit Mallick: Now we when we see the top tier engineering colleges,
00:10:33
Sarbojit Mallick: if you have a sample set of the top tier
00:10:35
Sarbojit Mallick: engineering colleges, say I take a bunch of N I. T.
00:10:37
Sarbojit Mallick: S and understand what their candidates are doing from first year,
00:10:40
Sarbojit Mallick: second year, third year, final year,
00:10:42
Sarbojit Mallick: you will see many of the candidates they have, like
00:10:46
Sarbojit Mallick: who has a knack of, say, designing or say, a
00:10:50
Sarbojit Mallick: development who are not from the software branch. Also, they
00:10:53
Sarbojit Mallick: are doing development who are not from who are engineers
00:10:56
Sarbojit Mallick: but are very good in marketing, very good in design.
00:10:59
Sarbojit Mallick: They are doing it from the 1st 2nd year onwards,
00:11:01
Sarbojit Mallick: so they the colleges are like supporting this kind of curriculum,
00:11:05
Sarbojit Mallick: and they are looking at these companies. They will, they come.
00:11:08
Sarbojit Mallick: They get a lot of very
00:11:10
Sarbojit Mallick: candidates because, as you have told earlier, there is a
00:11:14
Sarbojit Mallick: aptitude thing which goes on when, like people join such
00:11:17
Sarbojit Mallick: tier one colleges, they have as you, they have, like,
00:11:20
Sarbojit Mallick: better aptitude than, say, guy joining a tier three college.
00:11:23
Sarbojit Mallick: That is one assumption. But yes, some people do have that,
00:11:26
Sarbojit Mallick: and they learn things on their own. So self learning
00:11:29
Sarbojit Mallick: is not only for tier two tier three college guys,
00:11:32
Sarbojit Mallick: They are also for this tier one colleges also, they
00:11:36
Sarbojit Mallick: do also self learning and others.
00:11:39
Saikat Pyne: Right? Right. Let's speak about the candidates themselves and how
00:11:42
Saikat Pyne: enterprises are looking at candidates and how that has changed.
00:11:46
Saikat Pyne: How often do you find enterprises willing to negotiate on
00:11:51
Saikat Pyne: the candidates compensation? And how far are they willing to
00:11:54
Saikat Pyne: stretch for the right candidate?
00:11:57
Sarbojit Mallick: Oh, that then this is if you think of the
00:11:59
Sarbojit Mallick: compensation and salary part, the general idea has completely changed.
00:12:03
Sarbojit Mallick: So at some, Like I'm talking about around 10 years
00:12:07
Sarbojit Mallick: back when everyone had a set salary and you cannot
00:12:11
Sarbojit Mallick: go above that. And normally it was like 20% of
00:12:15
Sarbojit Mallick: what you're getting, or 30% plus what you're getting right now.
00:12:18
Sarbojit Mallick: It has changed completely.
00:12:20
Sarbojit Mallick: So right now, companies, startups, unicorns, uh, m n CS
00:12:24
Sarbojit Mallick: very large tech companies they don't have a bar on
00:12:29
Sarbojit Mallick: salary or compensation. If they find a very good candidate,
00:12:33
Sarbojit Mallick: they will take it up at any cost. OK, because
00:12:37
Sarbojit Mallick: if you think it like this,
00:12:38
Sarbojit Mallick: India is a very evolving economy. So if you can
00:12:42
Sarbojit Mallick: crack that very good candidate and he or she can
00:12:45
Sarbojit Mallick: produce projects or can produce something which can change your
00:12:49
Sarbojit Mallick: say top line by, say, 0.1% that is a few
00:12:53
Sarbojit Mallick: 1000 crows or a few crows say, And you're giving
00:12:57
Sarbojit Mallick: like a
00:12:58
Sarbojit Mallick: one person to that candidate Or maybe less than that, OK, A.
00:13:02
Sarbojit Mallick: As as a salary. So if you think like that,
00:13:05
Sarbojit Mallick: so that is a very wise decision for a company
00:13:08
Sarbojit Mallick: to make right. So if they get the best candidate
00:13:10
Sarbojit Mallick: out in the market and if they can offer him
00:13:14
Sarbojit Mallick: or her competitive salary, which is much more than the
00:13:18
Sarbojit Mallick: competition provides, then he gets a good candidate and this
00:13:21
Sarbojit Mallick: good candidate can change entirely. So you we have seen
00:13:25
Sarbojit Mallick: that companies doing that, um,
00:13:27
Sarbojit Mallick: like hiring a candidate at like the cost, which is
00:13:31
Sarbojit Mallick: much higher than the market value, as they say the
00:13:33
Sarbojit Mallick: market value of a candidate. But this candidate turned out
00:13:36
Sarbojit Mallick: to be very well. They kept on improving themselves. They
00:13:39
Sarbojit Mallick: kept on learning. They kept on performing. And now they
00:13:42
Sarbojit Mallick: are at a leadership position which the company has gained, say,
00:13:46
Sarbojit Mallick: a few million dollars because of this good candidate. On
00:13:49
Sarbojit Mallick: the other hand, they might have given, say, 100
00:13:52
Sarbojit Mallick: percent or 1 50% on top of what he or
00:13:55
Sarbojit Mallick: she was getting in the previous company. So that is
00:13:58
Sarbojit Mallick: a very good deal to do so. This is what
00:14:00
Sarbojit Mallick: we are seeing right now. Companies have evolved. We are
00:14:03
Sarbojit Mallick: seeing companies offering the salaries which are, uh, maybe above competition, OK,
00:14:11
Sarbojit Mallick: and only looking for people who are very skillful, who
00:14:13
Sarbojit Mallick: can help. Actually, the company to grow from 0 to 11, 200.
00:14:17
Sarbojit Mallick: So this is what they're looking for. OK, so it's
00:14:20
Sarbojit Mallick: not a very set practise, OK, just giving, like a
00:14:24
Sarbojit Mallick: percentage hike on the previous one. But it's basically how
00:14:28
Sarbojit Mallick: the candidate matters to the company and
00:14:30
Saikat Pyne: does that formula apply of only for startups or are
00:14:35
Saikat Pyne: m n CS looking at candidates in their individual capacity
00:14:38
Saikat Pyne: as well, and are willing to compensate based on the
00:14:41
Saikat Pyne: value they bring to the table.
00:14:43
Sarbojit Mallick: Yeah. So second. So first of all, we need to
00:14:45
Sarbojit Mallick: understand one thing. So these candidates, they can apply to startups, unicorns, startups,
00:14:50
Sarbojit Mallick: very large startups, even very large M n CS smaller
00:14:54
Sarbojit Mallick: companies also. So it's the same market out there. And
00:14:57
Sarbojit Mallick: if you want to get the best candidate, everyone should compete.
00:15:00
Sarbojit Mallick: So this competition takes in the unicorns, the large companies, everyone.
00:15:05
Sarbojit Mallick: So everyone must compete for that good candidate for the
00:15:08
Sarbojit Mallick: perfect hire. And like
00:15:10
Sarbojit Mallick: both these parties, even like the enterprises and the set ups,
00:15:14
Sarbojit Mallick: they are ready to shell out for the best candidate.
00:15:17
Sarbojit Mallick: And that is the beauty of it. Both these companies,
00:15:20
Sarbojit Mallick: both this type of companies, OK, they had a type set.
00:15:24
Sarbojit Mallick: I will not give this much of hike above it.
00:15:27
Sarbojit Mallick: But right now it's completely changed. So they are competing
00:15:30
Sarbojit Mallick: with the same candidate, and then also they are changing
00:15:35
Sarbojit Mallick: their outlook. So if you see employer branding,
00:15:37
Sarbojit Mallick: that has changed completely. So if you see if when
00:15:40
Sarbojit Mallick: I talk to HR heads of very large m n CS,
00:15:44
Sarbojit Mallick: they want to change their employer branding, they want to
00:15:46
Sarbojit Mallick: change their outlook to candidates to attract them, though, So
00:15:49
Sarbojit Mallick: they come out with things which make them look a
00:15:52
Sarbojit Mallick: very tech savvy outlook because they are doing a lot
00:15:54
Sarbojit Mallick: of things, which is very high skill. But the company
00:15:57
Sarbojit Mallick: might be say,
00:15:58
Sarbojit Mallick: on on on the grounds of a candidate, maybe a
00:16:01
Sarbojit Mallick: traditional one. OK, but right now they are doing very
00:16:04
Sarbojit Mallick: interesting projects. How will they show? Right? They have to
00:16:07
Sarbojit Mallick: rebrand themselves. They have to show the outlook that Yeah. Hey,
00:16:11
Sarbojit Mallick: we are doing this and this is much more interesting
00:16:14
Sarbojit Mallick: than what you are doing. So you should join us.
00:16:17
Sarbojit Mallick: So this is the thing they do. They pitch
00:16:19
Sarbojit Mallick: entire employer branding on the problem. They are solving the
00:16:22
Sarbojit Mallick: scale of the problem and what the candidate will get
00:16:25
Sarbojit Mallick: to learn new technology, new things of, like, new architecture
00:16:29
Sarbojit Mallick: and new scale. So if they are operating on a
00:16:31
Sarbojit Mallick: very high scale, they will do it. So if you
00:16:33
Sarbojit Mallick: see all the large m l CS, they are also
00:16:35
Sarbojit Mallick: changing their outlook to get the best candidates. So everyone
00:16:38
Sarbojit Mallick: is putting an effort to build their teams right now?
00:16:41
Saikat Pyne: Sure, sure, sure. Coming back to the compensation fund, I
00:16:46
Saikat Pyne: hear my colleagues in HR often say there is no,
00:16:50
Saikat Pyne: there's no budget for the right candidate, but
00:16:53
Sarbojit Mallick: there has to be some budget, right? So there are
00:16:56
Sarbojit Mallick: 23 things. First thing is basically there will be a
00:16:59
Sarbojit Mallick: salary comp and there will be ESOPs. So right now
00:17:02
Sarbojit Mallick: we have seen a lot of ESA buyback by many
00:17:05
Sarbojit Mallick: of the larger unicorns and larger startups. And it's a
00:17:08
Sarbojit Mallick: very interesting thing, which is happening
00:17:10
Sarbojit Mallick: in the Indian scenario, where a lot of startups are
00:17:13
Sarbojit Mallick: doing their IP o and the stocks are going public. Also,
00:17:17
Sarbojit Mallick: ESOP buybacks is very common phenomenon, if you see in
00:17:21
Sarbojit Mallick: the last two years, three years down the line. So
00:17:24
Sarbojit Mallick: ESOPs right now is quite valued by the candidate. And, yes,
00:17:28
Sarbojit Mallick: ESOP is a one section of the salary which is
00:17:31
Sarbojit Mallick: provided to mid level and also for
00:17:34
Sarbojit Mallick: or the senior level is yes, mid level. Some companies
00:17:37
Sarbojit Mallick: do so 70% of the companies do ops and then
00:17:40
Sarbojit Mallick: the salary. But the question of yours is basically what
00:17:44
Sarbojit Mallick: is the price of a good candidate? There is no
00:17:45
Sarbojit Mallick: price of a good candidate, first of all, so there
00:17:48
Sarbojit Mallick: is nothing like there is no set formula so every
00:17:50
Sarbojit Mallick: candidate brings something onto the table. And when you get
00:17:54
Sarbojit Mallick: that candidate that right higher, the companies are willing to
00:17:57
Sarbojit Mallick: get them
00:17:59
Sarbojit Mallick: the as an employee at whatever cost. And that is
00:18:03
Sarbojit Mallick: very justified, right? Because companies say, a startup which is growing, say, like,
00:18:08
Sarbojit Mallick: a 30% month on month or, say two weeks yearly
00:18:11
Sarbojit Mallick: if they get this candidate and if he or she
00:18:13
Sarbojit Mallick: can change fraction of it, so that moves the needle.
00:18:17
Sarbojit Mallick: So that is, that increases your evaluation by some, like
00:18:20
Sarbojit Mallick: some 100 million. And then that
00:18:22
Sarbojit Mallick: 100 million, uh translates to a bigger round or bigger,
00:18:26
Sarbojit Mallick: becoming bigger in the market and dominating the market, maybe
00:18:29
Sarbojit Mallick: getting the competition out of the market So a good
00:18:32
Sarbojit Mallick: candidate can change a lot of things. And so there
00:18:35
Sarbojit Mallick: should be no, like no price tag on a good candidate.
00:18:39
Sarbojit Mallick: So that is one thing which we
00:18:41
Sarbojit Mallick: which companies do so the companies directly ask What is
00:18:44
Sarbojit Mallick: your expectation? And they try to provide that, And if
00:18:48
Sarbojit Mallick: there are competing offers, then they also have to be
00:18:53
Sarbojit Mallick: creative to add certain components to make a competitive offer
00:18:57
Sarbojit Mallick: to them also so that they select themselves.
00:19:00
Sarbojit Mallick: Plus, there are other things to it. You know, there
00:19:03
Sarbojit Mallick: are a lot of interesting things which companies do to
00:19:05
Sarbojit Mallick: taking candidates, not only in the money and composition part,
00:19:08
Sarbojit Mallick: but also in the learning part. So there are companies
00:19:11
Sarbojit Mallick: who provide courses for free so that the candidate can
00:19:14
Sarbojit Mallick: learn a lot of stuff so before they join also.
00:19:18
Sarbojit Mallick: So these kind of things actually helps the candidate and
00:19:21
Sarbojit Mallick: also helps the company, because when the candidate joins, he
00:19:24
Sarbojit Mallick: or she is,
00:19:25
Sarbojit Mallick: say, Number one is very confident about what you do.
00:19:28
Sarbojit Mallick: The course Number two there is a faith, and there's
00:19:31
Sarbojit Mallick: a connection which is getting established between the new company
00:19:35
Sarbojit Mallick: and the new joint. So it's a very good form
00:19:37
Sarbojit Mallick: of candidate speaking from the
00:19:39
Saikat Pyne: candidate's perspective. If I am somebody with between 5 to
00:19:43
Saikat Pyne: 10 years of experience,
00:19:44
Saikat Pyne: when is the right time for me to start niching
00:19:48
Saikat Pyne: down into a role or a sector of my choice?
00:19:51
Saikat Pyne: Should I consider that exactly a year on and try
00:19:54
Saikat Pyne: to niche down? Or should I try and dabble in
00:19:58
Saikat Pyne: multiple sectors for as long as I can until I
00:20:02
Saikat Pyne: reach the top and that's when I decide. Maybe a
00:20:05
Saikat Pyne: sector like this or that works for
00:20:07
Saikat Pyne: me. See it
00:20:08
Sarbojit Mallick: first of all, say, suppose I'll take, for example, suppose
00:20:11
Sarbojit Mallick: a person from marketing OK, say a digital marketing person
00:20:15
Sarbojit Mallick: who has three years of experience or a five year.
00:20:17
Sarbojit Mallick: So if we are talking about 5 to 10, so
00:20:19
Sarbojit Mallick: let's consider five years of experience. He or she has
00:20:23
Sarbojit Mallick: worked with a couple of companies before, and they are
00:20:26
Sarbojit Mallick: all different companies. So right now
00:20:29
Sarbojit Mallick: he or she wants to switch to another sector. So
00:20:32
Sarbojit Mallick: sector is basically supposed he or she wants to switch
00:20:36
Sarbojit Mallick: to education sectors Edu or fintech? OK, so these kind
00:20:40
Sarbojit Mallick: of sectors they want to shift. But the thing is
00:20:43
Sarbojit Mallick: like the core of the job profile is the same, right.
00:20:47
Sarbojit Mallick: The core is same, and you want to operate with
00:20:50
Sarbojit Mallick: different type of tools and different type of users. OK,
00:20:53
Sarbojit Mallick: you want to in in
00:20:55
Sarbojit Mallick: you want to acquire users who want to buy your
00:20:57
Sarbojit Mallick: course in Fintech. You want to acquire users who take
00:21:00
Sarbojit Mallick: your credit card or any kind of schemes, which you
00:21:02
Sarbojit Mallick: said so it's the same. So now when when you
00:21:06
Sarbojit Mallick: shift to different sectors, you need to take up certain skills.
00:21:09
Sarbojit Mallick: You need to understand the user person OK, when you
00:21:13
Sarbojit Mallick: take all different sectors. So when I see that I'm
00:21:16
Sarbojit Mallick: an expert in the people say I'm an expert in
00:21:19
Sarbojit Mallick: digital marketing
00:21:20
Sarbojit Mallick: but after 10 years, they might say I'm an expert
00:21:23
Sarbojit Mallick: in digital marketing in Fintech. So many of the fintech
00:21:26
Sarbojit Mallick: firms will want this person on that team. So I
00:21:30
Sarbojit Mallick: think for the best time to do it is after
00:21:33
Sarbojit Mallick: 7 to 8 years of experience when you have understanding
00:21:37
Sarbojit Mallick: of the technologies which are behind your role the skills
00:21:41
Sarbojit Mallick: which you have acquired and now you can
00:21:44
Sarbojit Mallick: basically single-handedly lead a team or change the outcome of
00:21:49
Sarbojit Mallick: a team or a department. So that is the right
00:21:51
Sarbojit Mallick: time when you want to shift to a particular domain.
00:21:55
Sarbojit Mallick: So I want to only work in the finance domain
00:21:57
Sarbojit Mallick: when you can change or impact the team or a
00:22:01
Sarbojit Mallick: company in that sense that the company is not that big,
00:22:04
Sarbojit Mallick: so you can impact the company. Go also,
00:22:08
Saikat Pyne: I'm sure you've seen hundreds and hundreds, probably even thousands
00:22:11
Saikat Pyne: of CV s in your career. What's common in the
00:22:15
Saikat Pyne: profiles of the CV s of the mid senior hires
00:22:19
Saikat Pyne: on your platform. What are the things that they do
00:22:21
Saikat Pyne: right in their career and in their
00:22:23
Sarbojit Mallick: CV? The things they do right is the number one they.
00:22:27
Sarbojit Mallick: The resumes which get selected, which are getting shortlisted, are
00:22:31
Sarbojit Mallick: very crisp. OK? And they also put in some data.
00:22:36
Sarbojit Mallick: So data will mean like I have increased the click
00:22:39
Sarbojit Mallick: through rate by, say, 20% OK or the click through rate,
00:22:43
Sarbojit Mallick: or the open rate by 10% or 15%.
00:22:47
Sarbojit Mallick: What they do wrong in the data is basically they
00:22:50
Sarbojit Mallick: want to take the onus of everything that was done
00:22:52
Sarbojit Mallick: in the department onto themselves, and that is not true.
00:22:55
Sarbojit Mallick: The recruiter or the team leader or whoever is like
00:22:59
Sarbojit Mallick: having a look at the regime will understand that you
00:23:01
Sarbojit Mallick: have not done that, and this does not give you
00:23:05
Sarbojit Mallick: a very good signal about the candidates of that we
00:23:07
Sarbojit Mallick: should refrain from doing.
00:23:09
Sarbojit Mallick: The good thing is, if you have done something, you
00:23:12
Sarbojit Mallick: put that in numbers. I have increased the user base
00:23:16
Sarbojit Mallick: by how much by 10 times 20 times. Or see
00:23:19
Sarbojit Mallick: if you can get to particular say from one million
00:23:22
Sarbojit Mallick: to three million
00:23:23
Sarbojit Mallick: and then you tell them how you have done it
00:23:26
Sarbojit Mallick: so that suppose you want to get hired like a
00:23:29
Sarbojit Mallick: suppose head of growth or head of director of marketing.
00:23:33
Sarbojit Mallick: So the person who is hiring you, maybe a senior
00:23:36
Sarbojit Mallick: level guy, they want to understand what you have done
00:23:39
Sarbojit Mallick: and in three lines, you tell me that. Hey, I
00:23:42
Sarbojit Mallick: have done these three projects in these three projects. I
00:23:45
Sarbojit Mallick: have increased by certain percentages, which I have noted down,
00:23:48
Sarbojit Mallick: and I have done using this and this is the
00:23:51
Sarbojit Mallick: impact on the company. This is very easy and, uh,
00:23:54
Sarbojit Mallick: mid level mid level candidates 5 to 10 years. They
00:23:57
Sarbojit Mallick: do that because they have a lot of experience in
00:24:00
Sarbojit Mallick: doing that. Second is also put in the certifications which
00:24:04
Sarbojit Mallick: you have done, or the courses which you have done. See,
00:24:06
Sarbojit Mallick: everyone wants to have people in their team
00:24:09
Sarbojit Mallick: who are performers, plus learners. So learning is a very
00:24:13
Sarbojit Mallick: important thing, and companies do value them very highly. So
00:24:17
Sarbojit Mallick: if you have done certain courses, you make sure to
00:24:20
Sarbojit Mallick: put them up on the resume. So learning is the
00:24:23
Sarbojit Mallick: second thing, which is very important. Third thing is extracurricular.
00:24:27
Sarbojit Mallick: What have you done in the past? And people might
00:24:30
Sarbojit Mallick: not have much extracurricular because after 5 to 10 years,
00:24:33
Sarbojit Mallick: people stop doing like in college. You used to have that,
00:24:36
Sarbojit Mallick: but that is also pretty important because
00:24:39
Sarbojit Mallick: 5 to 10 years you are directly looking at a
00:24:42
Sarbojit Mallick: mid senior level guy or mid leadership level guy who
00:24:45
Sarbojit Mallick: has to take care of the team. So you need
00:24:47
Sarbojit Mallick: to show them two things. Number one is if you
00:24:50
Sarbojit Mallick: have led a team, how big is your team? And
00:24:53
Sarbojit Mallick: how many direct reporters do you have? You should mention that. OK,
00:24:56
Sarbojit Mallick: if you mostly 5 to 10 years very less will
00:24:59
Sarbojit Mallick: be in the IC or the
00:25:02
Sarbojit Mallick: by, I see individual contributor role. Many will be in
00:25:05
Sarbojit Mallick: the management role in the management role. They will need
00:25:08
Sarbojit Mallick: to have an understanding of how to lead a team
00:25:11
Sarbojit Mallick: so they if they have managed the team if they
00:25:13
Sarbojit Mallick: have grown a team from two people team to 20
00:25:15
Sarbojit Mallick: people team, they need to write that right. This is
00:25:18
Sarbojit Mallick: very important, and many people do mention that many people don't,
00:25:22
Sarbojit Mallick: and you should mention that if you have led a team,
00:25:24
Sarbojit Mallick: you should mention that amount. Like, uh, we have led
00:25:28
Sarbojit Mallick: a team of 20 have lead of eight.
00:25:30
Sarbojit Mallick: If there's a large team, don't ride. They have led
00:25:32
Sarbojit Mallick: a team of 80 because that is not possible. You
00:25:35
Sarbojit Mallick: should write. You have led a team of eight minutes
00:25:38
Sarbojit Mallick: under which there were 80 people. So that is how
00:25:40
Sarbojit Mallick: you design your resume. First thing
00:25:43
Sarbojit Mallick: and second thing is sorry, The last thing which I
00:25:46
Sarbojit Mallick: want to tell that about your hobbies or whatever your
00:25:49
Sarbojit Mallick: interests are so say some people will have interest in
00:25:53
Sarbojit Mallick: in marketing. Some people might have interest in, say, development. OK,
00:25:57
Sarbojit Mallick: so they know a bunch of languages, say python or
00:26:00
Sarbojit Mallick: C Plus or some design. That is very important because
00:26:04
Sarbojit Mallick: if a person has a little bit of interest in
00:26:06
Sarbojit Mallick: this kind of things, they might add a lot of value.
00:26:09
Sarbojit Mallick: So this guy will be
00:26:12
Sarbojit Mallick: understanding the design or understanding the code, which goes into
00:26:15
Sarbojit Mallick: their marketing tools or platform. That is very helpful because
00:26:19
Sarbojit Mallick: if
00:26:20
Sarbojit Mallick: as a product company say, I am hiring for a
00:26:22
Sarbojit Mallick: growth guy, I would always want a guy who understands
00:26:25
Sarbojit Mallick: how to run SQL or do a certain bit of
00:26:28
Sarbojit Mallick: understanding products and evaluate products, software products for marketing that
00:26:34
Sarbojit Mallick: needs a little bit of technical aptitude, which you can
00:26:38
Sarbojit Mallick: mention on your resume. That will help you a lot.
00:26:40
Sarbojit Mallick: So these are the things you should do, and and
00:26:43
Sarbojit Mallick: you should put this on a resume to get better calls.
00:26:46
Sarbojit Mallick: So on a
00:26:46
Saikat Pyne: lighter note, outrageous. But I recently
00:26:50
Saikat Pyne: received a CV first from somebody who wishes to be
00:26:53
Saikat Pyne: on my team and in the skills and hobby section
00:26:56
Saikat Pyne: the person had written. And these were the bullet points
00:26:59
Saikat Pyne: meal and snack preparation, bathing and dressing, activity planning, routine management,
00:27:07
Saikat Pyne: meal planning and preparation and the last ones emergency First
00:27:11
Saikat Pyne: Aid certified. So what are the strangest thing you've seen
00:27:16
Saikat Pyne: on a CV? Given your experience browsing through hundreds, probably
00:27:19
Saikat Pyne: thousands of CV s
00:27:20
Sarbojit Mallick: strangest thing will like I have received a lot of
00:27:23
Sarbojit Mallick: c DS. Where they have written that are the hobby
00:27:26
Sarbojit Mallick: is sleeping and movies is like pretty common watching Hindi movies,
00:27:31
Sarbojit Mallick: watching hinie songs, watching Bollywood songs. OK, so these kind
00:27:35
Sarbojit Mallick: of things I have seen and preparing food and foodie
00:27:38
Sarbojit Mallick: is OK. I have seen that many of people who
00:27:40
Sarbojit Mallick: are into creative space. They have this, they do write this.
00:27:44
Sarbojit Mallick: They love to prepare food at meals and all that.
00:27:47
Sarbojit Mallick: That is OK, but yeah, so,
00:27:49
Sarbojit Mallick: like day to day activities you should not mention as
00:27:52
Sarbojit Mallick: hobbies because you have to understand the meaning of hobbies.
00:27:55
Sarbojit Mallick: So I've received quite a bunch of resumes, which has
00:27:58
Sarbojit Mallick: this kind of thing. But yours is quite interesting. Let's
00:28:02
Sarbojit Mallick: shift gears and
00:28:03
Saikat Pyne: talk about changing careers
00:28:06
Saikat Pyne: going forward. It's expect that the job market will disproportionately
00:28:11
Saikat Pyne: reward people with high skill and high calibre. It is
00:28:15
Saikat Pyne: quite naturally going to be slightly more difficult for people
00:28:19
Saikat Pyne: who decide to shift their career to be hired.
00:28:22
Saikat Pyne: Because if you worked in a certain job profile in
00:28:25
Saikat Pyne: a certain industry for multiple years, it's natural for you
00:28:29
Saikat Pyne: to be typecast in a way where it might seem
00:28:32
Saikat Pyne: to recruiters that you're starting from square one if you
00:28:35
Saikat Pyne: decide to shift gears. So what are your insights and
00:28:39
Saikat Pyne: your tips for candidates in mid senior roles who have
00:28:42
Saikat Pyne: successfully changed careers and domains,
00:28:45
Sarbojit Mallick: careers and
00:28:46
Sarbojit Mallick: domains in this kind of job market is not very uncommon.
00:28:50
Sarbojit Mallick: I have seen a lot of people doing that, and
00:28:53
Sarbojit Mallick: I have seen example. I take careers. So if you
00:28:56
Sarbojit Mallick: want to shift from, say, electrical engineer to computer science
00:29:01
Sarbojit Mallick: engineer electrical engineering to computer science engineering. So not computer science,
00:29:04
Sarbojit Mallick: maybe and develop it. So you want to develop software products? OK,
00:29:08
Sarbojit Mallick: how will you do that? And
00:29:11
Sarbojit Mallick: five years, 10 years back, it was almost impossible. You
00:29:16
Sarbojit Mallick: cannot go back and enrol to college and then get
00:29:19
Sarbojit Mallick: a degree in computer science and come back and again
00:29:21
Sarbojit Mallick: do it. Many people have done that after, like dropping
00:29:24
Sarbojit Mallick: out of college for one year and then shifting to
00:29:26
Sarbojit Mallick: another college. But in the mid senior level, it's not
00:29:29
Sarbojit Mallick: possible at all
00:29:30
Sarbojit Mallick: now. It's possible because, as I told you, online education
00:29:33
Sarbojit Mallick: has come as increased leaps and bounds, and we have
00:29:36
Sarbojit Mallick: seen people educating themselves on a one year course or
00:29:42
Sarbojit Mallick: a eight month course and becoming developers. And they're getting
00:29:45
Sarbojit Mallick: good developer jobs who has experience of, say, 5 to
00:29:48
Sarbojit Mallick: 6 years in a completely different field altogether. So why
00:29:54
Sarbojit Mallick: is that? Because companies large companies also do take them,
00:29:57
Sarbojit Mallick: and we have seen people who
00:30:00
Sarbojit Mallick: learn development or design or marketing skills. You doing internships
00:30:07
Sarbojit Mallick: doing free internships, doing all like freelancing and then joining companies,
00:30:12
Sarbojit Mallick: which are very good companies for this kind of roles.
00:30:15
Sarbojit Mallick: So that is, this is why, because companies
00:30:18
Sarbojit Mallick: prefer skill and calibre, so if the person has a
00:30:22
Sarbojit Mallick: good aptitude, has the ability to learn and retain and
00:30:25
Sarbojit Mallick: use it OK, in the practical world, they will get
00:30:29
Sarbojit Mallick: more and more opportunities if they want to shift gears
00:30:32
Sarbojit Mallick: to a different domain or a different skill set altogether. OK,
00:30:37
Sarbojit Mallick: and companies are ready to take chances. That is the
00:30:39
Sarbojit Mallick: best thing
00:30:40
Sarbojit Mallick: before. Companies would say, You have experience on this, you
00:30:44
Sarbojit Mallick: should go for this. I will not consider people who
00:30:47
Sarbojit Mallick: does not have any experience on this. Right now, it's
00:30:50
Sarbojit Mallick: completely different. You get to a hackathon and you pass
00:30:53
Sarbojit Mallick: an assignment. The company will take your interview, and that
00:30:56
Sarbojit Mallick: is entirely dependent on your interview, how you perform and
00:30:59
Sarbojit Mallick: how you go to the next level and get the offer.
00:31:01
Sarbojit Mallick: That's simple. So companies are preferring skill and Cali, that
00:31:05
Sarbojit Mallick: is a very
00:31:07
Sarbojit Mallick: novel move by very large tech companies, very large companies, OK,
00:31:12
Sarbojit Mallick: not only in tech in non tech. Also, we have
00:31:14
Sarbojit Mallick: seen this happening, and that is why because
00:31:19
Sarbojit Mallick: come in India is a place where everything is evolving
00:31:23
Sarbojit Mallick: in a like in in minutes. So if you see
00:31:26
Sarbojit Mallick: 5 to 6 years back, we hardly used any of
00:31:30
Sarbojit Mallick: the apps, which are right now, though they the apps,
00:31:33
Sarbojit Mallick: might be like 10 year old or an eight year old.
00:31:36
Sarbojit Mallick: We hardly ever used it because we
00:31:38
Sarbojit Mallick: we did not need using it. We never ordered, say,
00:31:42
Sarbojit Mallick: from sugi up like in 2015 16. Or like when
00:31:46
Sarbojit Mallick: Twiggy started, they had a very low traction. When uber started,
00:31:50
Sarbojit Mallick: they had a very low traction. But companies, the companies
00:31:54
Sarbojit Mallick: got users, and when they got users, they wanted to
00:31:58
Sarbojit Mallick: expand their teams. And
00:32:01
Sarbojit Mallick: then they realise the basic thing is, it's not about pedigree.
00:32:04
Sarbojit Mallick: It's not about the work experience, which they had previously.
00:32:07
Sarbojit Mallick: It's about the skill of the person if the person
00:32:09
Sarbojit Mallick: can perform with me
00:32:11
Sarbojit Mallick: and I'm trying to give him her opportunity. I have
00:32:14
Sarbojit Mallick: seen people who have biotech degrees, who is a biologist
00:32:19
Sarbojit Mallick: for 10 to 15 years, shift entirely to development, and
00:32:25
Sarbojit Mallick: right now they are. Engineering managers are like leadership level
00:32:29
Sarbojit Mallick: engineer leaders in very good companies. I've seen that
00:32:32
Sarbojit Mallick: right.
00:32:33
Saikat Pyne: So tell me what would be the most effective job
00:32:37
Saikat Pyne: search strategy for somebody who has around 5 to 10
00:32:40
Saikat Pyne: years of experience and is willing to explore
00:32:43
Sarbojit Mallick: new opportunities. So, see, job search strategy is a three
00:32:48
Sarbojit Mallick: way is a three way process. It's a three part process. Sorry,
00:32:51
Sarbojit Mallick: a three part process. So
00:32:54
Sarbojit Mallick: the first thing is you have to build a good
00:32:58
Sarbojit Mallick: resume so that companies can understand what you are trying
00:33:03
Sarbojit Mallick: to do, what you have done, what your skills are.
00:33:05
Sarbojit Mallick: If you have changed your field, say, from mechanical engineering
00:33:09
Sarbojit Mallick: to software development,
00:33:11
Sarbojit Mallick: what is your projects? What are the what are projects
00:33:15
Sarbojit Mallick: you have freelanced on and you have to give them
00:33:17
Sarbojit Mallick: solid proof. See if you have developed something. Put that
00:33:21
Sarbojit Mallick: link in that resume so that everybody can see
00:33:24
Sarbojit Mallick: Number two. When you have done this resume, you want
00:33:28
Sarbojit Mallick: to seek out to companies. But that is not a
00:33:30
Sarbojit Mallick: very good thing. To Cold Call is not a very
00:33:32
Sarbojit Mallick: good thing. It's basically outbound job strategy, which hardly works.
00:33:37
Sarbojit Mallick: It's basically inbound. If the other person has interest in you,
00:33:41
Sarbojit Mallick: you will finally land up in a job, and we
00:33:45
Sarbojit Mallick: have seen the like companies doing that. First of all is, uh,
00:33:49
Sarbojit Mallick: one is. You can use referrals. You can connect with
00:33:52
Sarbojit Mallick: your friend circle,
00:33:53
Sarbojit Mallick: send them the resume. That friend of yours can forward
00:33:57
Sarbojit Mallick: that resume or upload the resume and with a note
00:34:00
Sarbojit Mallick: or recommendation note, or just forward it. That is one
00:34:03
Sarbojit Mallick: thing which actually works.
00:34:05
Sarbojit Mallick: Put into a different job boards where you get good
00:34:08
Sarbojit Mallick: offers or opportunities, and this is how it should look
00:34:12
Sarbojit Mallick: like it. It will be, say, depending upon your profile,
00:34:15
Sarbojit Mallick: it will be a process which might take like from
00:34:18
Sarbojit Mallick: like start of the process to end, which is the offer.
00:34:21
Sarbojit Mallick: Stage and acceptance might take seven days to around 2
00:34:25
Sarbojit Mallick: to 3 months, depending upon how you position your service.
00:34:29
Sarbojit Mallick: Positioning is very important.
00:34:31
Sarbojit Mallick: Positioning yourself in the market is very important. So the
00:34:35
Sarbojit Mallick: right now there there is a lot of opportunities in
00:34:37
Sarbojit Mallick: the market. In the software and technology space, we have
00:34:42
Sarbojit Mallick: seen people getting very good jobs, and the heights are
00:34:45
Sarbojit Mallick: already very good. So we have seen this position happening,
00:34:49
Sarbojit Mallick: and this is the three things which I can suggest
00:34:52
Sarbojit Mallick: for any job seeker, which has an experience of five years.
00:34:56
Saikat Pyne: Thank you so much for your insights and your advice.
00:35:00
Saikat Pyne: And with that, it's a wrap. Thank you for being
00:35:03
Saikat Pyne: on the podcast. Please tune in next week for the
00:35:07
Saikat Pyne: next episode of the You Incorporated podcast. See you,
00:35:21
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00:35:26
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00:35:29
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00:35:34
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00:35:42
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00:35:44
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