From Banker to Building India's Most Loved Restaurant Empire | Ft. Sameer Seth

[00:00:00] Bank is going to leave the bank in the parathia base. Oh my god, this is so good but I'm too distracted. See that didn't need any explanation. And when you take the first bite of the plate, it's taking you to a flavour, it's taking you to a memory. That's what food is supposed to do. There's I think over 1.4 lakh restaurants in Mumbai, but most people get it wrong in the first 90 days.

[00:00:26] A running restaurant is like a trading floor. Multiple things are happening at the same time. You need 6-12 months of OPEX in the bank. We found the space, we were convinced that these would be it. During the due diligence process, we realised the potential landlord had a mobile case on there. Opening a restaurant is like moving into a new home. It's only 50% ready the day you open it. It's just mind-blowing. Everyone's giving me looks because now everyone wants to dig in. It's been about 115 crores in terms of revenue.

[00:00:54] Bombay Switchamp makes up about 50% of the business today as we look at it in 2026. Given that it forms 50% of the revenues, can you break it down for me? Some things I will not reveal. But if you'd asked me three years ago, would people buy 800 rupees sandwich outside Bangor? I would have said maybe not. The moniker of success is scale. Scale at all costs. There's a reason why Bombay Can't Be One.

[00:01:18] Sometimes a single unit can also be extremely profitable. It's the perfect hospitality actually. I think that's the hardest to crack. Our first ever collaboration was with Parve G. In their 80 year history, this was the first time they were doing a product collaboration. The most outrageous request or guest that's called to reserve a table personally? Team was offered. Whoa! And did you do it?

[00:01:47] Today's guest is someone who has quietly helped build one of the most interesting modern hospitality companies in India. From banking at Citibank to building restaurants like Bombay Canteen, O Pedro, Veronica's and Papa's and scaling Bombay Sweet Shop into a brand people now actively crave,

[00:02:06] he has been part of reshaping how India thinks about food, space and hospitality. Along with his co-founder Yash Bhange and in partnership with the late chef Floyd Cardos, he has helped build Hunger Inc. into something far bigger than just a restaurant company. It's a collection of experiences that sit at the intersection of food, emotion and design and culture.

[00:02:31] Why do they care about seasonality when it's inconvenient? Why is a 12 seater restaurant more talked about than a 200 seater? And why hospitality in their world is not about food on a plate, but about how people feel when they leave. Today we're going to unpack what it really takes to build in one of the toughest businesses in the world, the unit economics, the failures, the scaling challenges and the very human side of running restaurants in a city as brutal as possible.

[00:03:01] And beautiful as Bombay. Sameer, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here. Not at all. Thank you. Okay, so let's start at the beginning from Citibank to Hunger Inc. Your father was in the corporate world. Your mother was a teacher. Was there ever any pressure to sort of fit the mold as a child? All the time. I think came from a very typical middle class family, I would say, and the idea of going into food was almost anathema.

[00:03:29] I think when I made that move, my grandmom definitely used the words with my parents, bank chhod ke paranthe bechne ja ra hai. So I think it just didn't fit the mold of what they imagined. Call it conditioning, call it whatever else. Right. And so, but I think that being said, they've always been super supportive, even though there was that initial hesitancy of what life might look like in this world.

[00:03:55] And I think at each stage, I'd always wanted to do something in the world of food, but they were pretty convincing to do something else. So chemistry in undergrad and MBA and then with banking. But I think it took a couple of years of banking to convince me that was not for me. And now I am where I am. Yeah. I think sometimes you need to know what you don't want to do. Yeah, absolutely. And that's how you know what you want to do. Absolutely.

[00:04:19] And you started off in the restaurant business in New York and you've gone on record to say that you need to start in operations when you begin in the restaurant business. Why do you think that's so important? So I think just a little before New York, I got a really interesting chance after leaving Citibank in Delhi to join a small restaurant company there. So I think I got my sort of training wheels, so to speak, in the business over there. But that was a transition from banking.

[00:04:47] So I always kind of did operations, adjacent roles from marketing to finance, etc. I was a jack of all trades in that company, so to speak, and really got a chance to get a front seat to what it takes to run restaurants, what it takes to shut restaurants and all of that in between. And I think I got some really good advice to go to the US to study more from a mentor of mine at that point.

[00:05:12] But another professor who kind of convinced me while I was at Cornell that unless and until you don't get into the literal nuts and bolts of what's happening in the business, which is operations, you will always never have the confidence to operate on your own. And they say hindsight is 20-20, but I completely agree with that statement. I think it gives you a certain level of experience and that experience gives you the confidence to take decisions as things are happening. I always feel running restaurant is like a trading floor.

[00:05:40] Multiple things are happening at the same time. And I think that ability to absorb that information or the uncertainty of that moment comes from the ability of having done it before. Yeah, you know, I couldn't agree more. Being on the job, really getting your hands dirty, like you said, gives you that confidence. And, you know, when it comes to the restaurant business, you've said that the glamorous side of it is completely a lie.

[00:06:05] What we see when we go, you know, being served and dipping into the delicious food. So what is reality? What does it really look like behind the scenes? The reality is 90% of the time you're focused on doing the same thing over and over again. Right? Like at the end of the day, you could be my friend or family. You will come back only if you're assured of a consistent experience.

[00:06:27] And I think a lot of our time goes, whether in the kitchen or the front of the house, how do you ensure that there is a really great experience every time you walk through our doors? Do we get it right every time? No. But that is the endeavor. And I think for us, really, I think as founders and now operators, every day is sort of spent thinking through the guest experience.

[00:06:49] Every day is spent thinking through what will make that memory for our guests in a way that it lasts them a lifetime. Absolutely. So if I were to take the clock a little bit back, before you actually guys started out on your own, you called up Yash, I believe one day and said, how long are we going to keep doing this for someone else?

[00:07:10] What gave you that entrepreneurial sort of itch? Was it always there? What do you want to tell people who are sort of consistently working with someone in this business? When's the right time to start out? So the itch, I think, was always there in whatever way. I think even when I started off in that small group in Delhi, I think the idea was always to do my own thing.

[00:07:31] But initially didn't have an idea, I didn't have the team. And I think I was fortunate enough that along, along sort of various life experiences came Yash and then Chef Floyd, who were both very instrumental in my life to be able to take this step. I think without either of them, I don't think I would have had the confidence to be able to do it. I remember there was a fork in the road while I was working in New York that I could take another role with the company I was working with. But I think those conversations with Yash really turned my mind that if there was a moment to give this a try, it was then.

[00:08:02] And I think I always say that it takes time to make things happen. But in this case, it literally took two and a half years from that moment of that phone call to actually seeing Bombay Canteen open. I think that phone call happened sometime in the middle of 2012. We opened in February 2015. So even though you think like, okay, we've taken this step, it's going to go great. Things take time.

[00:08:25] So what really went wrong? I mean, because you're starting out in a city where there's multiple restaurants, very established brands. What gives you the gut and gumption to think that you're going to make it? So I think maybe call it a little bit of ignorance and a little bit of foolhardiness. There we were so convinced that our idea had the time for our idea was now. And I guess you need that. You need a little bit of that because if you sit and analyze everything, you will always find a reason to be convinced out of it.

[00:08:54] But I think the piece, what we were super confident about was once we found the space, we knew what we were doing because we'd done it under some of the best mentors, teachers and companies across the world. Yeah. I think what was hard was just understanding the landscape and getting into Bombay. I remember coming in early 2013. And I think both Yash and I, I remember very clearly we came in early 2013.

[00:09:21] We guys, if one of us is not on the ground, we are not going to be able to sort of piece the various parts together. At that point, I had already sort of quit my job. So it didn't make sense for both of us to do it. So I kind of made the first move back to Bombay and it just took time. I think finding the space we're sitting in took the longest, it took almost nine months to find it. And I think after that, it took another six months to close it.

[00:09:44] Those are the things which I think you don't realize are the smaller things that sort of just take time. Yeah. And I don't think that's an India thing that's anywhere. I've heard similar stories by anyone starting up for the first time. And I think I'm glad we took our time because I think we were able to find a space that we really felt. We saw two, three spaces before that, that we were convinced that these would be it.

[00:10:07] And they fell through for whatever reason, including one space where during the due diligence process, we realized the potential landlord had a murder case on them. So we walked away from that for obvious reasons. Yeah. But those are the kind of things which you don't expect to encounter. Right. Yeah. And I think taking that slow step in the beginning has almost given us that ability to lay the foundation that allows for that longevity over the long run. Yeah, that steady foundation.

[00:10:36] So, Hunger Inc. was built as we know alongside the late Floyd Cardos and he's had a massive impact and influence on the both of you. Can you share some of the biggest lessons you learned? I smile because I don't even know where to start with that. I think the couple of things, actually two things stand out immediately. Floyd was someone who gave me my first chance in New York.

[00:11:01] And I think even my first interview, he kind of said what and this was, I feel, 2011, yeah, 2010, 2011. He was like, what are you doing here? Why aren't you going back to India? And I think at the end of the interview, he's like, if you decide to go back, I'll do a project with you. Who knew, right? Like people say things. But luckily I got that job. It took a little while for that to happen, but, and we built an amazing relationship together. And I think that really laid the foundation to be able to do this together.

[00:11:32] And a couple of things that stay, I think the foundational piece of what Bombay Canteen became, especially on the culinary side was, Floyd was like, we, I hated that in India, people don't use local ingredients. Why are we flying things from all over the world? Why are we not changing menu seasonally? That's the way we eat at home. And those have become foundational to what we do across, not just Bombay Canteen, but across everything that we do. We're constantly innovating. And I think that ability to innovate definitely came from Floyd.

[00:12:00] And the other thing he would say on that front is still, you don't take time to understand tradition. You will not know how to innovate. And that really played out, especially with Bombay sweet shop, because when we came up with that idea, none of us knew the world of Mithai or Namkeen or sweets, et cetera. It took almost two year journey, especially with Chef Girish to sort of travel the length and breadth of India, understanding from local Mithai walas, et cetera, and how things are made.

[00:12:26] And we saw the beauty firsthand of how that comes to life. And that became the basis of Bombay sweet shop. And I think if I had to highlight something else that he would, that is stuck in my head, he would always say, you're never as good as they say, you're never as bad as they say. You know, but we were at a time when modern Indian cuisine was all about molecular gastronomy and theatrics. And yet you went down the regional food route. Why is that? Thank God we're over with that.

[00:12:56] I feel, I think that's the misconception around something that's molecular or modern, right? Like it is a technique. It is not a cuisine. Yeah. As in it allows for certain things to happen. It's like saying my entire cuisine is based on frying. That's never, that's never what happens. And I think that's really, I think it became cool. It became Instagrammable. It became all of those things, which is why it had its moment.

[00:13:23] And I think we use modern techniques in what we do even today. But does that, is that what a guest is interested in? That's the question we ask. To me, this is modern. This is a carrot and white bean hummus, thorn. With a fresh tomato salad and a curry leaf khakra with it. And it takes the flavours of India from different places, but brings it together in a way that hopefully in a form that you've not had before.

[00:13:48] So to me, that is what represents modernity where you're taking what I was saying about what Floyd would say about tradition. And taking that root and foundation and then having your own spin on it. And I think what we always say across hunger ink is hopefully we are creating the traditions of tomorrow. I think someone who's growing up in our restaurants, eating at our restaurants, craves that 10 years from now as their traditional food. And I think that's what you see time and time again across the world, not just in India. Absolutely. Should we dig in and have a bit?

[00:14:18] Okay. So how do we do this? Yes, chip and dip it. Chip and dip it. Love it. So easy to eat. Correct. Ooh, can I serve you some? Oh my God. This is so good. Simple, right? Simple, but like you said, understood the tradition and then you go ahead and innovate and there's magic in your mouth. And when you take that first bite, hopefully it's taking you to a flavour, it's taking you to a memory, which is very much your own personal one. Yes.

[00:14:47] And that's what food's about. That's what food's supposed to do, evoke those memories. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, but I think there was a time when guests came in and they asked, why aren't you serving normal butter chicken? How did you face that problem? Did it happen a lot? Was people as evolved at the time? Yeah, it definitely happened. I remember standing right there at the front door where a guest came up to you have a tandoor, you have chicken. Why can't you serve us chicken? Tikka or some version of that. And our response was very simple.

[00:15:12] We have, I can't remember what exactly we had in the menu back in the first year on that front. But even today we have a Ghee Rose Seek Kebab. Now, a Seek Kebab is something, is a form that we're all familiar with. Would you have a Ghee Rose flavour from Mangalore in it? No, absolutely not. But today it's been almost five years since it's been on the menu and it can't go off. And so that's what I mean by hopefully we are creating the traditions of tomorrow. And there are thousands of restaurants that will serve you the chicken. I was going to say, if you want that.

[00:15:41] So you can go to multiple other places here. Come, experiment a little. Maybe you'll try something which you've never tried before and fall in love with it. Well, I've fallen in love with so many dishes in this restaurant. But I believe the name was initially going to be Tiffin Club. But I just want to understand before it became Bombay Canteen, how important is the name in building this kind of a legacy or a cult brand, if you will? So to the second half of your question, I don't think the name is the foundation to it.

[00:16:11] I think it's the meaning the team gives to the name eventually. And what I mean by that is I think naming a restaurant is the most painful part because everyone has an opinion and a half and you can never please everyone. Yeah. And I think to us, the idea of Bombay Canteen really came from evoking memory again. And I think both worlds, Bombay and Canteen sort of resonated to us as places that we had been to

[00:16:40] and we had specific memories around and bringing them together really came together on that. Over the years, we've had multiple debates, arguments about what other restaurants and brands should be named. Veronica's came because it was on Veronica Street. Sometimes just keep it simple. Sometimes just keep it simple. So I don't think there is a method to the madness, but I think whatever, I think eventually to what you were asking about it becoming a brand.

[00:17:08] I think it's eventually what the team lends to it from their point of view, which leads to the formation of that brand. And the product itself, right? The food, which is just phenomenal. That keeps people coming back. Since you spoke about Veronica's, let me go to that one. It's very intentionally simple. It's very comforting. The food, do you think this sort of casual comfort is becoming a big thing now in the cuisine world in India? I think it never went away.

[00:17:35] If you look at it in your day or my day, there are days, you don't want to have like a very put together meal at any, all through the week. Right? I think there is a mood for each kind of meal. And I think for us, Veronica's really came out of the fact that during COVID, we really were experimenting with multiple things just to keep the lights on.

[00:17:56] And one of the ideas that came to our mind at that point, especially after the first, after 2020 wrapped up was people were, if you wanted to be entertained, there was Netflix. If you wanted community, there was Zoom calls at that time. But if you wanted comfort, you were still ordering in from your restaurants and like it or not Bombay Candid or Opeiro were never built to be delivery restaurants. What we realized is people were missing comfort and we were missing things that we were. So every 30 to 45 days, we would come up with a new restaurant on delivery.

[00:18:27] And we've done from Indian Chinese to Thai food to a bakery. And the one that really resonated was something which was, we called at that time Pedro's Sandwich Shack, which had American-style pastrami sandwiches, fried chicken, all those things which are super comforting and travel really well. And I think that seeing the response to that gave us the kernel of the thought that yes, eventually this can become something really interesting.

[00:18:56] And that's what eventually sort of evolved into Veronica's. And I'm so excited now that you just told me that we're opening Veronica's right beside the Bombay Canteen in Lower Perel. Correct. So that's super fun. And O Pedro, I believe that was envisioned like sunshine after a bad day at work, but it was originally going to be Mexican. How come you didn't stick with Mexican? I mean, we don't have great Mexican restaurants in Mumbai. Why not go that route?

[00:19:18] We don't have great Mexican restaurants in Mumbai, but I think when coming up with a concept, the real belief system that we have is context is everything. And I think we took our first steps towards formulating or articulating this philosophy with O Pedro, because I think while Floyd, Yash and I were very clear that we wanted to do Mexican. Yash actually reflected on the fact that what is the context of Mexican cuisine in a city like Bombay?

[00:19:45] And the reality is, number one, a lot of the ingredients even back then were quite expensive. They still are, but they're less so now, especially something like avocados. And number two, we've grown up with like Tex-Mex or cheesy nachos. Like we've not grown up with Mexican food. So we were like, do we really want to do something? And we just gone through the process of educating people on what modern Indian food is. Do we want to go through that whole process?

[00:20:12] And we were very confident on doing Mexican food was Floyd had opened a Mexican concept in the US and had traveled through the country and really wanted to bring that authenticity and bring that version of Mexican food here. But we really questioned ourselves, is this the time to like take guests through that journey of educating them again? And then when we sort of connected the dots about where I think the true connection of dots happened when Yash came up with this thought that.

[00:20:42] When you are in New York in the winter and you're thinking of running away, you're thinking of Mexico. But when you're in the glass and steel buildings of BKC and stuck, where do you think of running away to? It's Goa. And Floyd's going. And Floyd's going. And I think it was the quickest decision we ever made because we were again confident that we could do this. So it's important to stick to that, the ethers that you were building. Okay, let's break down the business talk numbers and things.

[00:21:08] Bombay Sweet Shop is the most profitable, is part of your portfolio today. Am I right? How much does it make up of your total portfolio? How many stores do you have and how much revenue are you generating? So we, Bombay Sweet Shop makes up about 50% of the business today as we look at it in 2026. We are six going on seven stores in Bombay. We have 20 odd dark stores through which we sort of are able to deliver on Sweetie and Zomato within 15-20 minutes to wherever you are.

[00:21:37] Because that realization really was there that when that craving hits, you need it now. You're not going to wait a few hours for it. And the other significant part of the business is the sort of institutional side. What we look at weddings, we look at corporate gifting, we look at social gifting.

[00:21:59] Those things because at the end of the day, one of the biggest reasons for us to come into the space was we realized that eating sweets or celebrating sweets is so ingrained in us. That moment isn't complete without kuch metha ho jai. And I think that really became sort of the underpinning of what has become Bombay Sweet Shop.

[00:22:19] And I think if the question in 2020 when we opened in all sorts of harrowed circumstances with the pandemic was that will people buy a premium Indian Mithai online? The answer has been a resounding yes. And we've been finding various ways of bringing it to people now in today's day and age and to a new generation. And I think collaborations has been a huge part of being able to do that.

[00:22:44] Our first ever collaboration was with Parleji, which really in their 80 year history, this was the first time they were doing a product collaboration and really struck a nerve with guests all over. And just this summer we've been working with Naturals ice cream where we've created two flavors with them, which they kind of distribute all over the country. So we're finding new ways to take the gospel of Bombay sweet shop all over the country. Yeah, Parleji, Naturals, those are OG Bombay brands.

[00:23:12] But since we're talking financials, I can't deviate. So wouldn't it be more economical for you to have more dark stores? How much is it costing you to have the actual sort of restaurant format for a Bombay sweet shop versus just being online and having dark stores? How much capex are you putting in? No, so I don't think we view it in that way. I think you have to view it in terms of what is eventually creating that flywheel that allows for people to get Bombay sweet shop whenever they create it.

[00:23:43] And to me, while yes, we went through this moment in the early 2020s where everything was on a screen. I think true brand love is not built on the screen. It's built through touch and feel. So to us, the stores really represent and we're not going to have hundreds of stores. We're going to have strategically placed stores based on our understanding of the city. But what's the capex per store? It's about a crore and a half or so. Okay. And you generate profitability within how long? Within the first month and a half. At a Bombay sweet shop.

[00:24:12] Yeah. All the spaces we open, we aim for sort of operational sort of break-evens very, very quickly. But what about a place that's in the market? But the thing is you have to look at Bombay sweet shop slightly differently from regular restaurants. Not from any other. Also, there's a huge seasonality to this category. Like where basically 50 to 60% of your business will happen between Rakhi and December. Right. Because that's when people are truly gifting. People are truly sort of going out, etc.

[00:24:40] And that's why something like the Naturals partnership made so much sense. Where it's a lull in our sort of category, but ice cream is going through the roof. And very like ice cream will go through that in the summer and then they'll have a lull later in the year. So I think it's really understanding behavior in the category and then building for it. And to us, the stores, the dark stores, to me, the Mithai shop was the original QSR of India. There was a reason to go to it through the day. Right.

[00:25:09] People look at obviously burger chains and pizza chains, but really every neighborhood had one. And there was a reason to go to it. So there is a profitable model already that exists there. But to us, it's more a function of how do we get to you in the quickest way possible as soon as you crave it. And that's our North star more than anything else. And we are building our system around that. Okay. And given that it forms 50% of the revenues, can you break it down for me in terms of the other restaurants that you have?

[00:25:38] Oh, Pedro, Veronica's, Bombay Canteen, how much that forms? And what would be like the average rent in, you know, lower Perel prime property in South Mumbai for a place like this? Some things I will not reveal. But I think for us, Bombay Canteen is the oldest. So it's sort of the rest of the half. It does about a little over a third of the rest of it.

[00:26:03] And then Bombay, O Pedro and Veronica's are sort of and Veronica's is also now growing as I was mentioning earlier and taking its first steps towards seeing how it can scale. If you'd asked me three years ago, would people buy sort of indulgent 800 rupees sandwich outside Bandra, I would have said maybe not. But I think things have evolved significantly. And I think we are taking that first step towards being able to see how that might happen.

[00:26:31] And I think time will tell in terms of how that plays out. Okay. So, Hunger Inc., I think it's been about 115 crores in terms of revenue, but margins are at about 9% or so. How do you plan to grow your margins and what really makes the margin picture so difficult in the hospitality business? I think there are multiple things, right? Like, I think if you look at the last year, there's been massive fluctuation in sort of the input costs, etc.

[00:26:57] I think you have to have the systems around to manage that from a supply chain point of view. But I think more than anything else, it's a balance between growth and profitability that we are always striving towards. Yeah. I think right now Bombay Sweet Shop is very much in a growth trajectory.

[00:27:17] So, we are investing heavily in terms of like building out capacity on the operation side, on the production side and looking at those as long term investments that eventually get amortized using distribution. Right? I think that's a classic product company sort of business model that you apply there versus the restaurants where you need to look at each unit in specifically in terms of.

[00:27:39] And I think what the point you brought up about rentals is very important where I think the sort of thumb rule would be you have to keep rent around the 15% margin of your revenues to really be able to make sure that that is one lever. Because that's one lever you cannot change over a period of time. The rest I can still control. But you are usually locking into 9 to 15 year contracts on the rental side. So, how do you make sure that you are able to predict that out in a way that it actually does not affect your margins in the long run.

[00:28:08] Say that again. Rent should be how much? 15%. Okay. Roughly 15%. As a thumb rule. As a thumb rule. Okay. It depends again on your concept, your pricing, etc. In terms of what you can sort of afford in your business model in particular. But 15% is a good sort of benchmark to have. Okay. And then Papas. 12 seater, but it's the highest revenue per square foot business. Am I right? Sure, if that's what you're focusing on.

[00:28:35] But otherwise, to us, Papas represents the pinnacle of what you can do with Indian food and Indian hospitality. We call it like the new age Indian hospitality. And to us, it's not about the revenue number you're generating, but it's really about the innovation you're driving and the memories you're creating. Because at the end of the day, if you look at the 12 seats to be in Bangra, it's not going to be able to sort of survive of those rentals because you'll have to do some very different things.

[00:29:04] We combined it with Veronika's very intentionally to not allow for that pressure to have happen at Papas so that we can really, Chef Hussein and team can really sort of push the boundary on what both Indian cuisine can look like and Indian hospitality can look like. I'm asking these hard hitting financial questions while this amazing plate is in front of me. What do we have here? It's a safe puri that you've never eaten before. So, imagine ceviche and safe puri coming together. Oh, yum!

[00:29:32] So, it's a sea bass safe puri with a little, all sorts of fun flavorings and on a, like a tostada. Incredible. I mean, who doesn't love ceviche and, hmmm, it's at sea bass, right? Yeah. So good. It's with a little chundo. It's just really bright. Can we make every bhel puli bhala make this now?

[00:30:00] So, I understand that at Papas, so if you're booking a regular spot, whatever you pay, but if it's on the day when the restaurant is closed or something like that, how, or if I want to book out the entire space and get maybe more than 12 people of my own, how much am I going to do? Oh, we can't do more than 12 people. Okay, if I want 12 people but only my curated guests. As in, depending on when we are having that conversation, we have a chat with the guests and like to figure that piece out. I've heard some wild numbers.

[00:30:29] Everything is folklore at the end of the day. Oh, okay. But now let's get down to the real thing because, Samir, you guys have succeeded. It's like you have this golden touch when it comes to the hospitality business. There's, I think over 1.4 lakh restaurants in Mumbai, but most people get it wrong in the first 90 days. Why are they failing? What are the other restaurants doing wrong, you think? See, I can't comment on what other people are doing wrong. I can reflect back at what we-

[00:30:57] But I mean, for instance, we're in Kamala Mills. I worked here 16 years and every few months there was a new establishment opening up outside the office. And that's crazy. So that's the point I'm making, right? Like I think, can I pinpoint exactly when wrong? Did they, after we came into Kamala Mills, rent skyrocketed in this particular compound, right? Because we were basically the shop window for people to come in and see how well you will do in Kamala Mills. But did they then figure out- By how much did it skyrocket?

[00:31:25] I think at some point there were 30 restaurants around us. So I think it really took off. We were one of the first few. We are definitely the oldest at this point. How many years have we been here? Almost 12. Almost 12 years. So I think, but did they consider what is the rent they're paying versus the kind of product they're wanting to serve? Who did they build the right team to be able to consistently have that experience in the first 90 days, as you rightly said?

[00:31:51] There are a few things that we strongly be, you need to build confidence in the first 90 days. And that means programming your restaurant in a way that it allows for that. So when Bombay Canyon opened, for example, for the first month and a half, we didn't open for lunch. We didn't open on Mondays. Why? Because you need to have a little bit of downtime to actually assess on what's going right, what's going wrong, and to be able to actually, again, going back to building confidence, right?

[00:32:16] And I think those are the smaller, more things hidden behind the curtain for the lack of a better term, which we end up doing, which allow for us to slowly build that forward momentum and which we are able to then capitalize on later on. Okay. So what would you say are the most important metrics for someone within the hospitality sector that they really need to focus on to make it?

[00:32:43] I think you have to look at your original business plan and your business plan as it's kind of evolves for the first six odd months. I think it's hard to see it first couple of months will never be the true picture. So I think waiting a little time and seeing how it kind of shapes up would be really important within that. I think one parameter, which depending on the kind of cuisine, food costs would be an important one. Like I mentioned earlier, rentals would be another one which you need to pay a lot of attention to right at the beginning.

[00:33:13] And I think eventually as time goes on, you look at things like how are you being able to keep your teams? What is the culture you're building? Those pieces really become important in being able to assess how you are doing, because I think too often what happens is the first six months will be really great. You will get a lot of offers to start. Okay, you can open here, you can open there, et cetera.

[00:33:38] But does the concept call for it being scaled? There is a reason why Bombay Can Team is only one over 12 years because when we thought about it, it never linked itself to scale. Scale is eventually a function of process. We change our menus every three to four months. You can't standardize that. And just because I put it 10 kilometers away, what is the uniqueness of the space we've created going away?

[00:34:01] Those are the harder questions which I think that need to be answered when truly looking at what to do with the business. Because I think what ends up happening is we are in this environment where the moniker of success is scale. Scale at all costs because everyone is scaling and we've gone through the last decade and what's the last decade and a half. That's all that people end up focusing on. But no, sometimes a single unit can also be extremely profitable.

[00:34:30] Depends on the kind of life you have chosen to live. Right? Like, well, I know Yash and I and the team are extremely ambitious. So we've gone down the path of scale. But for the first two years of Bombay Can Team, we were very clear we will not consider anything other than Bombay Can Team. Not for any other reason is because we wouldn't have had the time to set that foundation to be able to then build Hungar Inc as an organization. Okay. Let's keep focusing on this sort of masterclass with you for people within the hospitality business.

[00:34:58] I believe Danny Meyer says that he hires people with 51% emotional skills and 49% technical skills. Do you agree? Yeah, I think hiring for that attitude, hiring for that ability to really fit be that cultural fit is so important. And I definitely went through that process, having worked with him back in New York along with Chef Floyd.

[00:35:24] And I think we today are able to reap the benefits of having grown like that. I think at the end of the day, will you get every higher right? No, you won't. But I think that endeavor that to focus on the cultural fit is so important because at the end of the day, if you're coming to Bombay Canteen or any of our other restaurants, more often than not what you'll go away is that conversation with your server.

[00:35:50] And that conversation with the server comes because we've been intentionally talking about it and hiring for it. There have been detailed trainings, right? With the server. So why is that so important? I think it's important for two reasons. One, I think if you look at it, not just the server, but anyone on the team, you are walking into a restaurant and you're walking into their space where they're really taking quote unquote,

[00:36:16] taking you through an experience. And if they are not up to speed with what the product is, what the experience is, the dissonance in you will kick in immediately. Imagine you ask someone what's in this dish and they give you a floozy answer. You will immediately be like, okay, I don't know what's going on here. Number two, especially in the context of India, I think what was really important for us even 12 years ago and even today is that the context of India is that service equals servitude.

[00:36:47] And how do you break that barrier down where you feel like an equal when you're serving in a restaurant such as Bombay Canteen or O Pedro or any of our other places where that relationship is being formed? We all love traveling abroad, sitting at the bar, having a chat with the bartender. But how often do we look forward to that in India? And I think those things only happen with call it training, call it constant conversations,

[00:37:11] call it confidence building. Those are all part and parcel of what we truly believe is the culture that hunger inc embodies. But you know, I'm sure there's a lot of restaurants who try to have the similar vision as hunger inc, but very few are executing consistently. So if you could just tell me a few things that you're doing differently that make you stand out. I think a calling it out that that is our focus as founders is very, very important.

[00:37:40] I think from day one, Yash and I have very pointedly called that out to our team saying that this is what is important to us. What? The fact that this culture, the way I said culture, the way I just described it exists, right? Where we want you to be able to confidently go up to any table and it should not just be the servers who are being able to describe the food. Anyone on the team should be able to describe the food. You can't describe it in English. That's perfectly fine. Describe it in whatever language you're comfortable in at the moment.

[00:38:09] And I think then there is no one size fit all. I think the way we think about it is initially there was a lot of intuition that came and that intuition was with Yash and me on the floor. We were serving. We were talking to guests. We were with the team in the trenches, right? There was. And then as we've gone now that we are over a decade, there's a lot of intentionality with which we're building. And that requires then systems around it because we are not going to be the only ones who are going to be doing.

[00:38:38] I think Yash puts it really well. Initially, culture can be caught where you're imbibing it, but eventually it needs to be taught. And how do you sort of evolve to that version of an organization that allows for that? And in that comes the consistency and the execution. Okay. I'm sure you guys had your fair share of challenges, things you got wrong, things you were convinced would work, but probably didn't.

[00:39:07] Can you take me through some stories or instances that you remember? I think what, there was a lot. I think we've celebrated as we sort of completed a decade. Wow, you're spoiling me. That's one dish which will never go off the main. That's the XKG. That's the XKG. Oh wow, that's so good. Inspired by Wellington Club but done in our own spin. Yeah. See, that didn't need any explanation. Yeah.

[00:39:37] Amulchi is egg brioche with a coconut and garlic chutney. You make it sound so simple, but no, but it looks so yum and I'm sure it tastes equally good, which we'll try. Yeah. So you were saying, yeah. Yeah, in terms of like, I would say more than the successes, it's the failures that teach you so much. Right? We, when we completed 10 years, we literally created a menu. We create these cocktails on the failures that got us to this moment.

[00:40:04] And I think for us, I think on the food side, there was such a huge learning curve in terms of what works and what doesn't. I still remember this one dish we were convinced we hit it out of the park. It was a prawn rasam that we made, which had this umami in depth of, and it kind of reminded you of eating Maggi noodles. Right? Like, and we, oh, sorry, a Maggi broth. Yeah. And we were like, oh, let's do a spaghetti dish and it'll be a riff on a Maggi, which we've all grown up with.

[00:40:33] We were convinced of it. We bought it to a table and it kept on going out and people just couldn't understand what was a spaghetti dish doing on an Indian restaurant menu. Right? So it kind of gave us our first sort of thought of like, how important it is when you're playing with memory, the form and the flavor matter. And if I push both of them far too far away, you're left with something completely alien, which I don't resonate with at all.

[00:41:01] I think that was became one of our earliest lessons when Bombay Canteen opened. And then over the years, I feel we've, I don't want to distract you. No, no, not at all. I'm too distracted. Yeah. Um, yeah, over the, over the years, we've really gone through iterations of menus of the concept itself where the way Bombay Canteen looks like today is different after the 2022 makeover we gave it.

[00:41:25] We were convinced in order to save, uh, electricity and power. We'll divide the restaurant into two parts. And we were convinced that people would love to sit in that section because that was closer to the door at that time. Not at all. People wanted to be in the center. So things that you imagine, like opening a restaurant, like moving into a new home.

[00:41:49] There's a lot of things that you learn as once you move in, you can imagine a lot of it, but it's only 50% ready the day you open it. So I think those were some of the things that pop into my mind immediately as we sit in this space. So is there some sort of number that you think someone who is looking to start out on their own within the hospitality space, say they've been working with someone in any capacity. And now they're looking to start out on their own that they need to have that much capex to be confident enough to start out on your own.

[00:42:17] Like without that, you will not succeed or nothing like that. No, there is. I think again, go back to a thumb rule. I think the capex is very dependent on the kind of concept you want to open. Right. So figure that out, be that piece out. How much space do you need? What is the kind of equipment you need for the cuisine? But what most people fail to do is to plan for OPEX. And I think having that in the bank is critical on day one that you need six to 12 months of OPEX in the bank because you don't know what you don't know at that moment.

[00:42:46] And having that comfort in your mind to say that, okay, mistakes will happen. Things might not pan out exactly the way we thought it would for that. That buffer is super important. And I think that's the that's when the pressure kicks in that, okay, you were imagining a kick in on the cash flows, which never panned out the way you imagined it. And then you are making decisions because of that and not because of what is good for the concept. Okay. At the rate of being repetitive, Samir, because I just want to understand from you and I want our viewers as well, too.

[00:43:15] Do you have do you think for someone starting out here, like you said, plan for OPEX? That's one thing. What else should make it to their checklist of am I ready to do this or not or ready to succeed or not? From a financial point of view? No, just running this hospitality. You have to take a hard look at yourself that why is it that I want to do this?

[00:43:37] Okay. And I think that's equally important. That's equally important. I think when Yash and I came up with the idea that eventually became Bombay Candy, we were very clear. We are not the cooks. We don't know how to cook professionally. Having that conversation with Floyd and convincing him to come on board for that journey was the one I would say the most important step more than raising capital even. Right. To be able to say that, okay, we actually now have the pieces that come together.

[00:44:06] I had a certain experience coming in. Yash had a certain experience and but Floyd bought the product like it's like imagine. Well, in today's AI world, it's very different. Everyone can create a product very quickly. You can wipe code something. But imagine 10 years ago opening a tech company without a CTO. It wouldn't happen. And that's the context we were in. People would open restaurants with consultants. The consultant would go away after three months.

[00:44:31] Then what are you going to do? How are you going to evolve? And I think those are the things that are important to ask that if you are confident about a certain thing, where is that confidence coming from? Okay, I don't know how to make it. I know enough people who've gone who are not from a culinary background, but have immersed themselves into the side and built the product themselves and doing extremely well. So that your personal context makes a huge difference in the eventual success of what is happening, what you're building.

[00:44:58] So how do you get these fantastic chefs? How important is it to get your ace get the chef and how easy or difficult is it? I think it's extremely important, first of all, to have, especially if you're building something for food that someone who deeply understands food to be there.

[00:45:18] And I think it is not easy at all. I think it takes a lot of effort to find the right people, especially, and I think finding Chef Floyd very early on because of our, because I used to work for him became a big thing for us. And as you have a Mexican riff, these are the pork birria tacos, but with a Maharashtrian twist.

[00:45:43] So, oh yeah. And this eggs cajari is just insane. I wish this like the Willington Club would do this now. Yeah. I think you'll have a mutiny over there if anyone tried to change the eggs cajari well. Yeah. Yeah. So I think it's extremely hard to find the right chef. And I think having Chef Floyd on board really allowed us to, uh, A, have the confidence in building the product first of all. Yeah.

[00:46:08] And I think he was very much part of the founding team. And I think the younger chefs really looked to him when they were joining us. And I think that played a huge role in Chef Thomas or Chef Hussein joining us right at the beginning to be able to then come along the journey for us. But was there a lot of, were there a lot of chefs who came and they were struck off or did it just. No, I think we obviously had conversations with a number of folks at the beginning, but then eventually, uh, we went with the opening team that we sort of went with.

[00:46:37] And we would, I think we had a really good run, uh, with a bunch of them. And then I think things evolved and people have their own lives to live. You know, like you said, everything looks super glamorous, but there's a lot of blood, sweat and toil that goes in behind it. What's the hardest part about being in the hospitality business? Are there nights that you say, man, why am I doing this? It's super hard, at least maybe at the start. Not just the start even now, I think it is hard, right? Like I think.

[00:47:06] But what, what's that component that? So I don't think there is a one consistent component. That's, that's why I was thinking for a minute. I think it just changes as I, as in we've gone through some, as in the pandemic had its own version of like craziness that came, including losing Chef Floyd and then trying to rebuild the company from pretty much from scratch at that point.

[00:47:27] I think, and today, uh, there are things that happen across various properties or across, uh, the brands, which you need to dip in and dip out. I think the one thing that we've been fortunate to do is that have a really great team. And what we say the village come along for the ride with us. And I think we're being able to build that resilience in the system because of that. I think the reason we were able to even survive the pandemic, despite everything that happened was because of the resilience the team gave us.

[00:47:57] And I think. So people and teams are. People and teams are critical. What I was going to say is, I think there was a lot of fear that kicked in for us when the pandemic happened. And today, I think having been through some of the lowest of lows, you also develop this thicker skin, which allows you to not get so perturbed with things happening. And maybe it's, uh, being in your mid forties also helps. Okay.

[00:48:25] I guess the business lesson and the entrepreneurial lessons aside, let's talk food because that's what you guys are really masters of when you're building a new dish, what goes into it? Can you tell me a little bit about this one? What are the ingredients like? Is there a lot of back and forth in terms of opinion, et cetera? Yeah. So I think we go through rigorous tastings for everything that we do. I dip it in. Yeah. Okay. Uh, so I think this dish is such a great example of what I was talking earlier about form and flavor, right?

[00:48:55] Uh, there you go. Where the form comes from a Mexican birria taco, but the flavors are purely Maharashtrian. And it's, uh, the rasa is very, very traditional where you dip it in with a jawar bakri. But what we've also done is evolved it a little bit where you'll see slices of dill pickle in there.

[00:49:17] Because when you're having something that rich with pork and the rasa and the rasa is made with the broth of the pork bones, et cetera, you want some freshness to cut through it. Yeah. And that comes with the pickle in the line. So I think those are the things that we're constantly striving towards is how do you get a dish that's balanced? Hmm. Now, whether it's on the Bombay sweet shop side or in the, at Bombay Cantina or any of the restaurant, that sense of balance is what really brings you back to eat it again and again and again. Okay.

[00:49:45] So, um, how much of it is creativity in terms of the menu design? How much of it is sort of operational? I think first step is always creativity. Okay. And how do you drive that wow in people's minds? And then certain things do fall off the curve. Like you go to brunch anywhere in the world. It's one of the hardest services. I still remember just because it's usually busy. It's usually really fast paced. People want their food quickly, et cetera.

[00:50:15] Uh, one of the first brunches we did back in Bombay Canteen was like something as simple as a dosa took us down because just making dosas at high speed. We are not used to it and to be able to actually be able to do that. So it's one of those things where you live and learn a little bit, even though the idea sounded really great. Uh, and now we, I think we have versions of it at different menus, et cetera, but just to give you an example of what might end up happening. Uh, if you really like something and then operations comes in the way of it.

[00:50:44] Um, and you know, so much of Bombay Canteen is about, like you said, what you feel the emotion that it evokes and the architecture and the interiors really speak volumes. What was the inspiration behind it? Tell us a little bit more about what's around us. Very much rooted in the city of Bombay. And I think, uh, Bombay Canteen, when we found this space, it was an old parking lot, but we said, imagine if we create an old, the ruin of an old Bombay bungalow that represents the new and old of India.

[00:51:10] So up to three and a half feet where we sit is old Bombay with the Mallard stone, the Bharat tiles, uh, evocation that there was a bungalow that existed here. And juxtaposed on top of that is the glass and steel and the art deco style stained glass, which really represents post independence Bombay.

[00:51:31] So to us, when we were working with Ayaz and Basra who came up with this sort of philosophy, we were really, he, he actually lent into the philosophy of the food of the new and the old coming in as I was talking about. And then took it into the city of Bombay and then came up with this. And I feel it's timeless. You've had it 12 years and 12 years down, this would look as cool and maybe more appreciated. Absolutely.

[00:51:52] Um, you know, you have the big guns now, the likes of Aditya Birla, the Tatas, et cetera, looking and exploring the hospitality space very closely with a lot of acquisitions. How do you feel about that? And is it something that you would consider? Have you had any talks? No, we've not considered it. We've not had any talks, but I think all boats rise with the tide, right? Like, so I think there's more and more capital flowing in because I think you as they are seeing an opportunity in the way India is moving.

[00:52:21] We we've traveled all over the world and we want similar experiences to come to India and people are now backing ideas which allow for that to happen. And I think it's great. I think there should be more and more of it. And I think it just grows the market for all of us. So more competition or you're happy where you are and your help at all. We are happy where we are. And I think people will constantly keep figuring out how to come up with their own concepts or own sort of ways of interpreting the market. Correct.

[00:52:48] And I think we are very comfortable with the point of view we've taken as I was describing earlier. Speaking of happiness. And a point of view this to me sort of is the perfect sort of culmination of the start of Bombay Canteen and where we are today. So this is a dish that started off in a very different way. So hidden at the bottom is Rasgulla soaked in espresso. Wow. The original version of this dish actually just had a salted caramel ice cream with a little praline with it.

[00:53:18] Yeah. During the pandemic it evolved at Bombay Canteen into a delivery focused tiramisu. Okay. That's what you're having today with a little brittle, almond brittle, etc. With again the scoop of that ice cream. But this is also. Can we both dig in? Yeah, yeah, of course. Yeah. But this is also then gone to Bombay sweet shop now. So where we sell a few maybe 80 of them a week here in Bombay Canteen. We sell thousands of them at Bombay sweet shop every week.

[00:53:45] I know I passed by the one in Palladium and it was fun to say I'm being honest with you. It was 10 PM and it was the most packed spot. So yeah, okay. Let's dig in. I'm going to go all the way to the bottom. Yeah, please get all of it. I mean, it's 10 PM somewhere because it's 11 AM here. I can't. This is just mind blowing. Everyone's giving me looks because now everyone wants to dig in. Okay.

[00:54:16] And I have such a serious question because now I want to ask what the game plan is in terms of revenues right now. And are you looking at an IPO? Is that ever going to be on the Anvil? Who knows? Never say never. Yeah, sure. Never say never.

[00:54:33] But honestly, like those are things which don't really, we don't focus on it at all because I think those are pieces which eventually happen if you lay the sort of foundation for it. Right. Yeah. It's very easy to say, let's go for an IPO. But it's a whole different. Yeah. We are very focused on growing Bombay sweet shop right now with the next couple of years. We're hopefully in Delhi by next year.

[00:55:00] I think on the institutional side, we are really forming some great partnerships to be able to scale across geographies again on that front. Veronica, as I was sharing with you, is taking its first baby steps towards scale. So I think a lot of that is what we are focused on versus worrying about what happens five years from now. But I think what we do end up focusing a lot on is what are the kinds of teams that we will need in the future.

[00:55:25] Because the context of the way we started off in 2015 has completely evolved to where we are today. Today for a company like ours, which needs to build systems to what I was talking about intentionality earlier, it would be completely amiss if we didn't focus on what, how AI can be part of it. It could be completely amiss if you were. How so, how so? As in whether on the back end or in the front, on the front. Right. Like there are so many systems that you need.

[00:55:53] Like we were talking about, imagine at scale, you need to control your supply chain. Okay. What are the kind of systems you're putting in place? What are the kind of analysis you're doing? How are you thinking of newer markets? All of those things become so much more faster and easier with the advent of artificial intelligence across the board. And also then seeing as in to give you a very simple example, last December, we launched our first product completely designed at Bombay switch up completely designed on AI. We said, oh, gingerbread.

[00:56:22] Usually you have gingerbread men, which are designed for Christmas. Imagine if you had a gingerbread halwai and that entire design piece we did on, you did using AI and sort of created the molds, created all of it. And I think that you can be equally creative again. It's a tool. Yeah, it's a tool. And how do you use that tool? So to us, a lot of that is what's happening right now for us versus focusing on an IPO. Okay.

[00:56:50] Um, I forgot to ask you about your marketing spends. Um, who was your agency because they're doing fabulous work with your packaging and your branding. And everything. And how much should one typically spend on advertising or promotion? And I believe a lot of it initially failed. And then you realize just the simple stuff like on, on social media. And it was just a nice, simple post. That was, yeah. Yeah. Simple post. So again, I think what was true then is definitely not true now on social media. Okay.

[00:57:20] As in, because 2015 was a different world altogether. Right. We work very closely with our design partners at please see on all things packaging and sort of, uh, from, on the design front. But a lot of what we do now is also in house. We've built that those teams to be able to on social media, on content, et cetera. I think the way content is today, there is no running away from it. And I think a few years ago we took that call that we need to have that capability in house to be able to truly, uh, scale with what we're doing.

[00:57:50] Okay. How important is that piece of the pie, uh, for your business? I think if 10 years ago we said food and hospitality are the two pillars, storytelling is a massive component to it as well. Okay. I think at the end of the day, all the dishes you had have a story to it, but today people consume story, not just in physical spaces, but they consume it on their phones. Right. Yeah. And you have to have that ability to be able to speak to them over there. And so 115 crores. What's the vision?

[00:58:17] Where will you end the year with what kind of margins are you looking at? I think I can speak to where we'll end the year at, where we are looking at about, we ended last year at about 160 odd crores. And, uh, I think we are very looking, very much looking forward to sort of scaling that within Bombay for this year and then going to, going to newer geographies. Yes. Tell me more about that. Which other geographies have you planned apart from Delhi? So from Delhi, Delhi is the focus right now.

[00:58:45] And like how do we get Bombay sweet shop there is something we're working on quite actively and to see. And no other geographies. No, not right now. Not right now. Because again, think of it as you're basically taking something that's worked in Bombay for years and then you'll have to learn how to, how it works in a newer geography before you start replicating it. Right. Like it's easy to say that we'll just go to five geographies at the same time, but you are then not setting yourself up for success. Hmm. You really have to control some variable to be able to actually be able to build a foundation again.

[00:59:15] So how do you stay relevant in this ever evolving world of hospitality? I think you need to be constantly listening, constantly listening to what's happening around us, what our guests saying. And again, I go back to what I was telling you, what Floyd said, you're never as good as they say, you're never as bad as they say. Right. I think that really is critical.

[00:59:42] I think with each new store that we open at Bombay sweet shop and now at Veronica's, we're constantly asking us questions. What is the context of that neighborhood of that place, which we need to think through and how we build for that versus just saying, let's just go templatize it and start putting it there. I think that those are the, and I think that thinking will also evolve two to three years from now. But for now, that is the right point of view that we need to be taking. All right. Before we let you go, let's get into the rapid fire.

[01:00:11] One dish from hunger Inc. that tops the charts for you. I know it's super difficult because I'm saying across all restaurants, but that you'd never take off the menu. Oh, it's definitely the XKG was. Oh, really? The OG. Okay. What is one of the most overrated dishes though, that you think, or, you know, one of the most overrated concepts in India? In India? Yeah. In the... That's a hard one. Okay, sure. I just changed it.

[01:00:40] I love all food. Okay, wait. Okay. So the question is, what is the most overrated dish that people just order because it sounds cool? And then I don't think you will say that anything's over. No, I think... I feel right now, matcha is having its moment. So everyone is like ordering anything and everything matcha. So there you go. Yeah. Okay. If you had to build a menu using only five ingredients, which five ingredients would you choose?

[01:01:11] Actually, the simplest is eggs, bread, cheese. And I go back to the KG while, funnily enough. No, I think eggs is my one of my favorite things in the world. So I think eggs anytime is great. Okay. Okay. Um, what's harder to crack? The perfect menu or the perfect vibe? I would say the perfect hospitality actually. Okay. I think that's the hardest to crack. Okay. What is the most expensive meal that you've ever had?

[01:01:42] I think the most expensive meal I've ever had would be at Per Se in New York. Was it worth it? I think, yes, it was because I think I never had a meal like that in my life in 2011. And I think it was just like this aha moment that what the epitome of fine dining can be. How much did you spend? I think at that time, luckily someone else was paying, but I remember the bill was about $500 a head. Okay. And that was 2010, 2011. Okay.

[01:02:10] Um, according to you, apart from the chefs that you have at Hunger Inc., who's the best chef? Or a few? In India or? No, no. Globally as well. Okay. No, no. Let's do India. Make it more spicy. Make it more spicy. Um, I would say have a lot of respect for what Alex is doing at Americano. Uh, and, and Otra.

[01:02:35] And I would also say, I think I would move away from chefs a little bit and also say, if you look at the concept that's come up in the last two years with Bene Dosa. I think what they've been able to do with something as ubiquitous as the Dosa, but really sort of get a fan following going because it's the consistency of that product, which I think Akhil and team have just like cracked absolutely really well.

[01:03:00] So say it wasn't Hunger Inc. that you guys were running, which would be the next best or the next hospitality company that you think you would be behind? Again, in India? Yeah, yeah. In India. In India. Um, tough one. Tough one. Okay. In the sense that I feel there are lots of aspects we really admire on a whole. Okay.

[01:03:28] I think what Riaz and all have been able to do with taking the idea of social and really sort of building it as that third place for so many cities in India is being great to see. And I think there are aspects which we love from so many places. Okay. Um, shit. I had a question. Okay.

[01:03:48] Is there one dish in or any hospitality company in India that you think really needs that rejig and revamp and you want to change everything about it in India? One dish? A restaurant that needs a rejig in India. Yeah. I would love to see a modern version of an Indian Chinese restaurant. A modern version. Okay. Um, do you have any regrets? No, not right now. Okay.

[01:04:16] The most outrageous request or guest that's, you know, called to reserve a table personally? I think the most outrageous request was where the team was offered cold plate tickets to give them a Papa's reservation. Whoa! And did you do it? No. By whom? No idea. I don't know. I don't know who it was. Okay. Your dream guest at one of your restaurants? I... Damn, these are hard.

[01:04:45] Like, I can't believe... It could be someone you worked with or you dreamed of. Yeah, actually, yeah. Sorry. I would love for Danny Meyer to come and visit our restaurants. You worked with him. Yeah. So how come you've never had that conversation? No, definitely had that conversation. He's just never been to India. Okay. Okay. He's just never been to India. And Indian hospitality in the next 10 years will be? Ruling the world. Whoa! I think you're already seeing it happen all over.

[01:05:11] I think the waves of brands which are doing fantastic things across the world are only going to grow and grow from here. Well, we're bon appetit to that maybe because that was great. Thank you so much, Sameed, for joining in. Thank you so much. And sharing with me so candidly. The rest of that is waiting for you. It is. It is. It's going to be mine and everyone else's around here as well.

[01:05:35] But just going to sort of sum up that interview because we've had so many key takeaways, especially for those who are looking to enter the hospitality business. You need to assess what's working and what's not. That's very important. Build a culture that's very critical. Know what can scale and answer the question as to why you're in this business in the first place. Failure teaches you a lot more than success ever will. Do remember to plan for OPEX at least six to 12 months.

[01:06:01] And people and the team that you have is very important in the hospitality business. Input cost fluctuation, all of that, you need to be on top of it. Try to balance growth as well as profitability within this space. Rent should be about 15% of the overall pie as a rule of thumb. And the reality of the hospitality business is doing the same thing again and again. I really hope you enjoyed watching this interview.

[01:06:27] Do remember to like, share, comment and subscribe. Thanks so much for tuning in.