Ep 6- The Eye Of the World- The Wheel Of Time Recap Show

[00:00:00] Welcome to UPodcast Presents The Wheel Of Time Recap Show.

[00:00:09] I'm Arsum Vernie and I don't know anything about the books.

[00:00:12] I'm Sojoy, I've read up everything about the series except for the books.

[00:00:16] And I'm Amrita, I'm a super nerd who's read all the books.

[00:00:23] Hi and welcome to the finale episode of The Wheel Of Time Recap Show with UPodcast.

[00:00:29] My name is Arsum Vernie and I'm joined by my co-host Ayam Rita.

[00:00:33] Hi.

[00:00:34] Hi Sojoy.

[00:00:35] Hi Asim.

[00:00:36] We have made it to this journey, this journey of The Wheel Of Time Season 1.

[00:00:43] It's finished.

[00:00:44] We managed to just watch the episode last night and I think everything is really fresh so

[00:00:51] I didn't even manage to really take notes.

[00:00:55] So this is going to be a more of a freestyle episode that we usually do.

[00:00:59] I do want to mention that if people have comments or they have an email, they can drop us an

[00:01:04] email at youpodcastingatgmail.com.

[00:01:07] I want to mention that Khandan podcast, our other Bollywood podcast is back so if you want

[00:01:12] to check that out, I'll add a note in our show notes and we have also launched a merch

[00:01:18] store to which I'll also add a link to the show notes.

[00:01:24] So yeah, that's how's keeping out of the way.

[00:01:28] Okay, this is the first episode of Ramanita.

[00:01:31] I'm going to have to rely on you to give me some sort of summary because I'll admit

[00:01:36] I didn't understand a lot of what was happening so I hope that's okay.

[00:01:43] But do you understand why I didn't understand what happened of Ramanita?

[00:01:51] I thought it was fairly clear actually.

[00:01:53] I didn't find, I didn't think like there was anything in there that was absolutely divorced

[00:01:57] from everything that happened before actually speaking.

[00:02:00] Okay, well that's good.

[00:02:02] I like that confidence then.

[00:02:03] So Joy, what were your general thoughts on this season finale?

[00:02:08] When you said we've been through this journey, it insert the Titanic meme, it's been 84

[00:02:14] years.

[00:02:15] It kind of felt like that.

[00:02:21] And yeah, I mean, I don't know and I don't like as a whole after having watched the finale

[00:02:28] I don't see this becoming the next big thing.

[00:02:32] This was, I don't know, like I think you would have to be a really strong part of the book

[00:02:38] fandom to be, you know, feel thankful that this has finally taken some sort of a fruitful

[00:02:46] place in popular culture where it's got a sort of TV presence now.

[00:02:54] But as somebody who's just coming in from a TV audience perspective, this didn't feel

[00:03:01] like a very strong first season.

[00:03:04] It just felt a lot of things were inconsequential.

[00:03:08] A lot of things were, yeah, it felt very, very weak for me.

[00:03:13] Not very, very weak but it just felt like just another, you know, fantasy show.

[00:03:19] It felt very mediocre.

[00:03:21] And he get lots of fantasy shows these days.

[00:03:24] So yeah, that didn't feel like, you know, must watch TV.

[00:03:30] So Joy, are you hinting that we might need to find a replacement for season two?

[00:03:34] Is that what you're hinting that you're not joining us anymore?

[00:03:37] Yes, is it?

[00:03:41] You'll still believe me into the future.

[00:03:45] You guys, I'll happily agree to it.

[00:03:48] You know, that's how I roll.

[00:03:52] Amitata, you've been waiting like decades for like, you know, seeing these characters on

[00:03:57] screen.

[00:03:58] Do you think after watching season one that this is going to get a season two?

[00:04:03] I mean, I know this getting a season two.

[00:04:05] They already shooting at so what that doesn't bother me.

[00:04:09] Do you think it deserves one?

[00:04:12] That's actually, I don't know, like I feel like the last two episodes for me as a book reader

[00:04:18] that was what I was hoping the show would be.

[00:04:22] But also, I agree that this is a very weak first season.

[00:04:27] Like it was all over the place.

[00:04:29] They cut out huge chunks.

[00:04:31] The editing was terrible.

[00:04:33] The sets were cheap and I've actually been watching a few behind the scenes.

[00:04:41] You know, like documentaries or whatever on YouTube that Amazon Prime has been

[00:04:47] apparently like uploading.

[00:04:50] That's another thing like the marketing for this has all the hallmarks of that, you know,

[00:04:54] that fine tuned Amazon marketing, which is the worst.

[00:04:59] I mean, they're like horrendous at marketing their own product.

[00:05:04] And then, you know, they think you actually find said product on their website.

[00:05:10] So if you search a lot, I guess you can find interesting things over there.

[00:05:16] But they're like so many things about this show that makes no sense to me because I can see

[00:05:21] now at the end of this season where they're headed in the next season and how they have sort

[00:05:28] of shortened and condensed a lot of the books into this one season and where they're going

[00:05:33] to take it in the next.

[00:05:34] But also, I feel like they didn't do a very good job of it.

[00:05:39] Like there's no flow to it, you know, like it's very stop and go, stop and go.

[00:05:44] There are some episodes that really knock it out of the park, but those appear to be

[00:05:48] the episodes that are entirely back story or else tangential information rather than the actual arc

[00:05:55] of the story itself.

[00:05:58] And it doesn't seem to know even now how to use the main characters apart from Rand, I think.

[00:06:08] I think like now that I've come to the eighth episode, I see how they've been building Rand.

[00:06:14] But all the other like the other four characters.

[00:06:17] I mean, Matt is just MIA but like the even the other three parents and a queen and a naive.

[00:06:24] Like I don't see them having done a very good job off them.

[00:06:31] And there's still scenes in here that should actually devastate you emotionally, such as the scene

[00:06:37] where Laan is saying goodbye to naive.

[00:06:40] But there's like literally like because we had that scene in episode seven,

[00:06:46] the impact of him saying goodbye to her in episode eight is sort of like swept under the rug.

[00:06:53] And there's like, there's like tons of things like that that make no sense.

[00:06:56] And I think like they left it too late to build momentum.

[00:07:00] So seven and eight were good episodes, but it came at the end of like six episodes that were extremely uneven.

[00:07:08] So as a book reader, I'm still excited to see where season two takes us because the Sean Chan have arrived spoiler.

[00:07:18] But I don't know.

[00:07:20] I absolutely respect Sujois take on it because I think like if I was a newbie, I'd probably be on his side of things.

[00:07:30] Yeah.

[00:07:30] Like the whole purpose of adopting a show like this from an existing IP which has, you know, like 15 odd books or 16 odd books is basically you have your dedicated fan base who will obviously support this at the beginning.

[00:07:45] But you also need to turn an entire generation and convert them to become interested in the original IP and they would probably get more interested and go back and buy the books perhaps and read up all the stuff whilst waiting for the seasons.

[00:08:00] And I think they failed doing that.

[00:08:02] They haven't pleased a new audience at all to, you know, they haven't been successful to excited new audience at all.

[00:08:09] I think it's not me.

[00:08:12] I think, you know, when we watched the Lord of the Rings movies, there was a you could really feel that Peter Jackson loved these books and has lived in that world.

[00:08:27] And I've never gotten the feeling of this with the creators of the Wheel of Time.

[00:08:32] It's like, you know, out of us three, it's like if they asked me to make the show who's like trying to figure out the show while he's making the show.

[00:08:40] And I just know, I mean, you're saying that, you know, they're picking things from book two and kind of mixing things up.

[00:08:51] But I just don't feel the momentum there.

[00:08:53] Like even when we reach the finale, like if this was a bingeable episode, I wouldn't be like, Oh, I really need to watch who these people are that are coming in these boats.

[00:09:03] I don't even know they've not set it up.

[00:09:06] You know, and it's like it's it's it's a very choppy flow.

[00:09:10] But I do like the characters that they've created a few of them.

[00:09:16] And I like the kind of journey they've been through.

[00:09:20] So I am interested in a season two.

[00:09:24] I'm just worried that with so much content out there that if this drops with another show that's more popular, I'll just not get around watching it.

[00:09:33] That's my that's my fair and away, which would be a shame because I do like a lot of the actors and I like the I mean, I've grown attached to some of the characters and their story lines.

[00:09:44] So yeah, I don't know.

[00:09:46] It's I think it's like a show that you enjoy despite the show itself.

[00:09:52] And that's kind of a weird thing to say in this.

[00:09:55] You know when it's coming from Amazon one of the you know the one of literally one of the biggest companies out there and that they've clearly thrown money at this and they put like, you know, they've had their bets on it and they still don't deliver which we've known that Amazon has done some great shows in the past.

[00:10:12] You know, you know like modern love stories for example or or a lot of Indian content that they've done which has been really good.

[00:10:21] Even preacher or you know like what was that God's so gods of God's American American Gods American Gods.

[00:10:29] Yeah, I mean there are there's been a few good ones.

[00:10:31] I think that Amazon is definitely done but I from a business perspective like sheer viewership.

[00:10:38] This is their most successful show and like we don't really get enough chatter about the wheel of time on our timeline or perhaps that's just because that's the kind of people that I'm following.

[00:10:51] We talk about Marvel and Matrix more than any sort of we I haven't seen wheel of time trending anywhere but from a

[00:11:00] viewership perspective I've seen some of the reports that have come for weak ending December 17th and it's the top most streaming show in the US in India in Australia and New Zealand as well.

[00:11:13] And it's better than Hawkeye and Arcane and Witcher which is quite fascinating that obviously it's getting a lot of audience but I'm not sure how many of them will be satisfied by it.

[00:11:28] Yeah, so I see a lot of newbies watching the show and they tend to be it's really wild.

[00:11:36] I think it's because of the casting actually because I know we've spoken before about how the you know the races are really mad that this is such a diverse cast and it's getting like review bombed on IMDB and stuff but also because the cast is that diverse and because that's very unusual for a fantasy show of this.

[00:11:56] Calibur it is also beginning to get a bit of word of mouth on certain parts of the internet so I see a lot of romance landia people for example talking about the show like people I didn't even know where we love time fans and turns out like you know they were all like reading at when they were kids.

[00:12:17] I see a lot of like people who have been following like certain actors you know like Daniel Hennie or Marcus Rutherford and saying that you know who are these people and how are they in this you know like an high fantasy show so they're like trying to like check this out and they seem to like it.

[00:12:42] You know and I guess like when you're coming in complete I need to like sit down and like binge it I'm going to binge it this weekend I think just watch the whole thing from beginning to end but my I honestly do think that this is basically the reason why we are reacting this negatively to it is because Amazon meddled a little too much in the production of the show.

[00:13:07] Because from what I remember of what Ralph Jardkins who's the show runner he wanted to premiere with a two hour episode he wanted to go into like really like you know good deep into the world building give you a very like lot of the rings experience without it being like lot of the rings light.

[00:13:29] And I think Amazon actually didn't want that they wanted something that was actually in fast paced and all that stuff and.

[00:13:38] What we got was a mess that was the first three episodes especially the pilot the pilot I will maintain is like the worst episode ever of TV that I've seen in a long long time and I think like if you were able to get past that pilot and still watch the show you're probably watching it to the to the last.

[00:13:58] Episode you know like your your tolerance for pain is very high.

[00:14:05] Shall we get into the episode itself a little bit yes and I think I'd like to hear this from you later on that I'm not that can we get into like spoilers a bit later on.

[00:14:18] Maybe you're going to be in about season two because I think now is a good time because by the time season two will come out although it's already apparently halfway through shooting in there in the Czech Republic.

[00:14:29] It's going to take a while and myself I'll probably I'll probably forgotten what you said so for me at that time spoilers are fine because I want to get excited for the second season in a way.

[00:14:42] So let's get into that a little bit like I said I'll probably need your help on this summary because I didn't understand most of it but we start in the cold open 3000 years ago and we're seeing a discussion between somebody who seems to be an old incarnation of the dragon reborn and a lady who seems to be the head of the ice to die.

[00:15:03] I am not sure they're debating about how to handle the dark one once and for all.

[00:15:10] The person that's a dragon reborn apparently wants to do this for his baby so it does seem that he's not this evil person that we've kind of heard about we plan out of the window and we see that actually the time before was actually a very high tech science fiction land before the wheel broke.

[00:15:32] That's what I understood from it. What did I miss here totally because I totally felt I missed a lot of things.

[00:15:40] No you're absolutely right that's exactly what it is.

[00:15:43] Okay okay.

[00:15:46] So are they married? Was the dragon reborn?

[00:15:50] No.

[00:15:51] So back in the time before the breaking in the age of legends that's what it's called the age of legends and in the age of legends men and women work together.

[00:16:03] And there's like actually a lot of like really cool stuff which is not really important right now but basically the thing that you need to know is that men and women were working together so.

[00:16:12] The dragon at the time was Lewis Telemon.

[00:16:19] Lewis Thryn Telemon that's his name and Lewis and the Tamarlin seat so that is a show doing a bit of a finesse saying with the titles because I guess they didn't want you know they didn't want to go too deep into the details but.

[00:16:38] It was possible for men or for women to be the head of all the Isodai and it wasn't as bifurcated as it is today so right now you know the Amalyn seat is only the head of all the women isodai.

[00:16:56] So that's the one Sanjay is the head of the women isodai but back then because there were men and women the Tamarlin seat was the head of all the Isodai.

[00:17:06] And so what they are discussing in that scene is basically Lewis Thryn Telemon has this idea about how to imprison the dark one but he wants like his idea is that men and women together will create this cage for the dark one because that's how he knows how to wield his power you know like men and women link all the time and work together.

[00:17:31] But the Tamarlin seat says no like that's a bad idea because you have to touch the dark one with your power in order to imprison him.

[00:17:42] So when you touch the dark one, the dark one can also touch you and so you know like that could lead to disaster.

[00:17:51] So she refuses to let any of the women help the men.

[00:17:55] So Lewis Thryn takes like 99 of his strongest channelers and they go out and they fight the dark one and they manage to keep him in a cage but like the Tamarlin seat said, the dark one touches them in return and poisons the male channeler source of power

[00:18:19] and turns them all mad. So that's why you see the black threads or the black fog going through the weaves when they're channeling.

[00:18:29] Yeah.

[00:18:30] Okay, okay. Yeah no thanks for that.

[00:18:34] So Joy did you how kind of surprised or shocked were you by this cold open?

[00:18:40] I was more surprised by looking at the fashion of these two people and they seemed obviously you know it was it seemed very futuristic compared to both to 3000 years how random that group from the two rivers addressing up in tevern clothes.

[00:18:59] That kind of was like oh it does feel like you know time is not linear in this world or something really bad happened that 3000 years after this civilization went way back you know something was reset as such.

[00:19:15] It's sort of felt like that.

[00:19:17] They reminded me almost of battle star galactica the how they were dressed you know and also I got worried because I was like damn this could happen to us you know it didn't made me think of that.

[00:19:31] But yeah no this was interesting I also like the fact that you know they show that like I think there's been a bit of a vilification in a wave of the dragon reborn and here you do see that it's kind of

[00:19:46] a kind of a disagreement on an approach more than anything right I'm not that it's not that he was necessarily evil it was just that they don't it didn't agree on how to solve this problem and that kind of leads to a little more you know humanity or how how small the problems wasn't in like the repercussion that has created 3000 years later.

[00:20:11] So that was kind of interesting I like this I liked also kind of the actor who was playing the dragon reborn.

[00:20:18] Not that we see much from him but I thought that was some good casting.

[00:20:24] So it is his baby but it's not the ladies baby yeah exactly okay good.

[00:20:32] Then I think we probably best to join at the siege right at Faldara I think maybe that's the better way.

[00:20:40] Rand and Morene have left the group behind in Faldara to get into go chase the dark one in the blight the group realizes this and they want to go after them but Faldara is also at that time going to be attacked by an army of trollecks.

[00:20:58] Nineeves tells land that when she found him or she tracked him earlier she wasn't actually tracking land but she was tracking more rain because she has a tell she basically is going to tell land how to track her because more and still hiding connection from land they they they part nine even land part and land is going after more

[00:21:23] rain Faldara gets attacked the king and his sister are kind of like manning the defenses and things like that a very kind of typical seat scene where the men fail but the women are kind of like an army of five wisdoms or and they connect their powers and then on their own they read all of the trollecks they kill all of them.

[00:21:50] I think what's happening then I don't again i'm so confused on the but it's like so they have to combine their powers to attack the trollecks but then the sister of the king gets addicted to that power and ends up killing nineeves which was very surprising and the other and might even kill eggwin.

[00:22:10] But at the last moment eggwin does some channeling I think and brings nineeve back alive is that what happens if it.

[00:22:21] So what you actually saw in that particular part is actually very important because you're seeing the women link and they in what you're seeing is that so lady amalisa who's like the king sister.

[00:22:37] She's not he's not actually a king like Agalmar is actually the Lord of Faldara but lady amalisa is very weak in the power and she is trained but she's not like very good at it.

[00:22:51] Suddenly she has access to not just for like other women's powers but also she has access to nineeves power and nineeves is like you know the strongest is being in like a thousand years.

[00:23:06] So when she draws in all that power and she you know kills all the trollecks that's great but then after that she's taken in more than her body can handle.

[00:23:20] So I said I when they are channeling like this is going back to the first couple of episodes when they were talking about menether and how you know menether and died because the queen took in too much of the power and that's basically what happened to amalisa and the women who are linked to her in that she can't let go of it and she you know it's like consuming.

[00:23:49] And so yeah so nineeves wasn't dead I think I think she was just you know and she wasn't burnt out or anything because she's so powerful she was able to sort of shield herself a little bit but a queen definitely heals her like that's what happened.

[00:24:08] Oh it is okay it is a queen that heals her even that part I wasn't exactly sure of if that was what happened why does nineeves not take the lead.

[00:24:18] Because she's like an untrained wilder she doesn't know what how to do it like even if you she could link by herself which she doesn't know how to do at that point.

[00:24:28] Actually I'm a little bit surprised that she was like amalisa was able to link to nineeves because nineeves doesn't know how to ready herself for linking so again they've just like altered the things a little bit.

[00:24:45] Right okay also like when they were linking when they had the other two channelers as well the intensity of the the channeling white thingy was weaker on the other side then you had really strong beams coming out of nineeves and a queen.

[00:25:04] That was kind of obviously set up to show that these two were really strong but again like nineeves almost going almost you know dying as well as like what we've seen with land before and also with more rain in this episode and random this episode like there's a lot of in consequential deaths or death scenes.

[00:25:33] That have been set up and that kind of really bugs me like there is no payoff to or there is no consequence to all these really final death moments but they just miraculously recover from it.

[00:25:53] What I also really found odd is the way the siege sequence was shot because like so the men are like far away at some wall that they're defending on a gap and then the trolux attack and then the only thing you really see is either CGI trolux climbing a CGI wall or like one random trolux appearing in front of like one of those holes where they're going to be.

[00:26:23] They shoot arrows from and that's it and then the king is dead or you know the Lord is dead. I don't know if that was supposed to show that this like the men are generally weak or bad at their jobs and the women are really good and that kind of seems to be the thread in the show maybe but so joy I mean you you love your action how did this whole I mean we've seen it right we've seen this in Lord of the rings we've seen this in game of thrones so many times how does that seem to be the way to do it.

[00:26:53] So this kind of siege set up and especially a seat set up at the end of the season finale how does it kind of stack up for you in terms of action.

[00:27:01] Yeah I think like we've been built up on the trolux army for long right they suddenly appeared in the beginning of the pilot episode and then we haven't seen them as much and we know that they are coming the fades are coming and they have dark friends within the folder kingdom as well so we know all of this is coming together

[00:27:22] and there will be a big fight and like I don't know if the show has done a good job with the build up but also the payoff isn't great like it's shot in a very very dark environment so it's not very visible of what exactly is happening.

[00:27:37] There is obviously watermark of Asim's name on the screen here is the whole which I will not forget to bring up in every episode but also like the yeah it was just really bad.

[00:27:51] It was just really bad CGI fest and like yeah if the women could channel and just kill all the trolux altogether while what was the reason of sending up the men in front to die.

[00:28:07] The first place I yeah it just felt really bad decision making on the part of the rulers.

[00:28:16] It was an odd one yeah I thought this siege setup was a bit was a bit weird.

[00:28:25] We've seen so many of these battle scenes right and we know when we see a really bad one.

[00:28:34] Yeah whatever you am with what did you think of this whole siege sequence?

[00:28:40] Yeah I don't like this is not a this is not how it works out in the books so this was something that they invented for the show.

[00:28:48] And I think like again like this is where like you know like as Sujoy was saying they've built it up over the season like you know this is going to be the last battle this is going to be the last battle and then you know it's a bit like stand-temp this.

[00:29:03] So it's that's actually what that so that particular M.O. is something that they've taken from the books because you know in the first book the characters do think that they're going to the last battle and they're fighting the dark one.

[00:29:18] And then you find out like you know like no you know like maybe it was maybe it wasn't and the second book you find out like no it wasn't like we have like a lot more to do.

[00:29:28] So I think that's what they were trying to recreate but the thing is when eight episodes there's so much stuff happening.

[00:29:36] And again like I go back to that scene between Lan and Naineev it was supposed to have such a pointy and say because it was going to be like the last time they saw each other.

[00:29:48] They probably never going to see each other. They were going on like completely separate parts in life and it was just like a very like yeah alright see around I guess.

[00:29:59] They just went on the separate ways. So yeah like it just and the fight needed more like you know they kept saying 10,000 trollegs, 10,000 trollegs but you needed to see like something like those just like a whole bunch of like you know dark screen.

[00:30:17] As Sujaya was saying so it's just awesome but and it was also very like reminiscent of a lot of the rings the two towers.

[00:30:26] Yeah you know and I don't see why they did that.

[00:30:32] Yeah yeah it's interesting I think these are all the trollegs or are there more trollegs like how many are there like they killed all of them?

[00:30:42] No no there's like hundreds of thousands of them.

[00:30:44] Oh okay okay so yeah and yeah I totally didn't get that Naineev and Lan were supposed to never see each other again.

[00:30:53] Like I did not get that at all. I thought they were just like you know going yeah on different different.

[00:30:59] So that's why I did think like oh they're not going to see each other and again when I thought Naineev was dead which actually made me sad but I also don't feel that they built up this love story either

[00:31:11] between Lan and Naineev really. I mean sure they banged but that's how far it's gone for me.

[00:31:17] You know I don't see this as this oh I really want these two characters to be together.

[00:31:22] I've not seen it although I do feel Daniel Henny was trying to give as much you know pay those as possible in the speech that he was giving to Naineev

[00:31:31] but it just that something was lacking and I think it's just in the execution of how they've built up these two characters together.

[00:31:38] Yeah and anything about the Lord and his sister anything I mean those characters are done right that's.

[00:31:46] Oh actually I want to ask Kamrit I think we can get into this a little bit how has it done differently in the books?

[00:31:52] So Agalmar and the rest of the you know his god they dried out to Tarvan's gap which is not like a tower fortress situation.

[00:32:06] It's literally like there's a narrow gap in the mountains and that's where you know the borderlands have been like fighting like the Trollocks in the open for like ages.

[00:32:17] So when they said right when they said the gap will not hold I wrote down mine the gap.

[00:32:25] So in the books is a little bit more mystical in that Rand fights like with his sword he fights the you know Ishmael who's the man that Rand is talking to at the eye of the world.

[00:32:46] So when Rand is fighting Ishmael every time that Ishmael advances the Trollocks advance and every time Rand advances the humans win as well.

[00:33:03] So it's a it's a it's tied you know like the dragon is the land and the land is a dragon like that's something that they say in the books.

[00:33:11] So when the dragon is winning the land or the people win and when the dragon loses the dark ones forces win so it's very different yeah.

[00:33:23] That's so much good.

[00:33:25] Yeah, why like there was the scene was set up to be interconnected and the edits go from you know for from marine and Rand versus Ishmael in the eye of the world and then back to the battle scene.

[00:33:38] And they had the same background score to sort of interconnect the two and there was like this hyping 10 score and they could have they should have gone with what the books did then because it's

[00:33:52] so it makes so much more sense that you know the dragon born is fighting the dark one and it definitely has consequences on how the the fades and the Trollocks versus you know the world are army.

[00:34:05] It has to be there has to be a link but they completely got rid of that entire concept and just concentrated on making it another lot of rings clone it's just terrible.

[00:34:16] Yeah.

[00:34:19] Let's move on a little bit while the siege is happening, a parent and loyal are kind of on a side mission and so the guard of the Lord has been giving like a special mission and they're trying to underneath the throne they bring out the horn of Valer.

[00:34:42] And and parent has a parent loyal have this discussion about the way of the leaf and being a pacifist and you need to take a stand or if you cannot fight there are other ways to help.

[00:34:55] They found the whole horn of Valer but at that time they realized that I think the character name is Padd and fein he arrives was the bard or the traveler in their village and he's working with the fades and he is a dark fein friend.

[00:35:11] And he takes the horn of Valer and basically escapes with it.

[00:35:16] I think that's what happens over there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why is the whole of Valer important there was something about that dragon needs it but what is it?

[00:35:28] It's a horn that when you when the dragon sounds it then the heroes of the past will come back and fight on the side of the light which is something that will become more clear as the series goes on.

[00:35:43] Oh, Lio also is dead right? It seems so. So we'll see because yeah, we'll see.

[00:35:53] Okay. Anything we missing in this I mean, this was kind of like a side story there wasn't much going on there right? Yeah.

[00:36:01] I think the main sort of point that the guy what was his name the guy who keeps selling the Chinese lanterns.

[00:36:09] Padd and fein yeah. He sort of pointed out right that it's not just the dragon reborn for this sort of generation of people.

[00:36:20] I guess the main thing is that there are five focal points on the wheel and and you all are important.

[00:36:27] And like parents obviously very, very surprised even now. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:34] Yeah. That's kind of important also he kind of says that this is just the start of what's happening right? So.

[00:36:42] Which I have to also say that I started suspecting and we will get this into this later bit that I think ran and more in our fighting this person.

[00:36:53] Let's call him the man and initially I thought that was the dark one but here I started to maybe understand that he wasn't the dark one.

[00:37:03] So maybe we can get into that a little bit because you can explain this theory.

[00:37:08] But yeah so parent is following the way of the leaf now.

[00:37:15] I don't think so. It still isn't.

[00:37:18] Okay.

[00:37:19] Which is why I was like a little bit surprised that he didn't attack Padd and fein and the feets with the you know, with the yeah.

[00:37:28] Yeah. I didn't understand because that's something I asked you guys last episode two when they were having that discussion in the tavern

[00:37:35] because I wasn't and I was unclear then and I'm still unclear now because why why does he just not want to fight when loyal is like dead on the floor or dying on the floor?

[00:37:45] Like doesn't that not you know affect him.

[00:37:50] Oh yeah, definitely I definitely wanted him to channel his like woof powers and bring his pack of wolves and like sort of attack the feets or the doctrines.

[00:38:01] How is that across coming?

[00:38:03] Welcome to the frustration that is Pelle Nai Barra like who will go your entire series going like parent do something and Pelle Nai is like but why?

[00:38:18] When he does it, it's very awesome but the thing is like for him to do it, it'll literally take mountains.

[00:38:27] Okay, yeah no that there was also seen between Egwin, Egwin and a parent earlier where Egwin is like are we okay parent?

[00:38:35] And he said we'll always be okay which again I don't know if that was alluding to Nai Neves revelation that there's like a love triangle or something else.

[00:38:45] I wasn't 100% sure what was going on there but also like Egwin sort of got really upset that rant left and she was like you know I love him

[00:38:55] and then parents are so do I yeah.

[00:39:00] But also like now I've seen all the episodes and like why like what was that whole thing with his wife because I definitely the first episode seemed to hint that there was a deeper thing between parent and his wife

[00:39:14] and we never find out what that is and also like why did we have that entire thing about how Egwin and parent have feelings for each other if that wasn't going to go anywhere like what was that about?

[00:39:29] Yeah, this is what I mean like there are like so many things in the series like make no sense and just like why would you put balls in the air if you're not gonna bring them down?

[00:39:39] Yeah, yeah it's weird to also like end that loop in a way where like it's just unclear what was happening so yeah this was kind of weird.

[00:39:51] What was there?

[00:39:54] Yeah, so this special guard of the Lord was kind of weak one like they got like gotten rid of it Marsuteha got rid of very quickly too.

[00:40:06] I was like why does this show not show us awesome action when it's needed like why you know why is land not being awesome wise this guard not showing us like a sword fight

[00:40:19] like I don't understand.

[00:40:22] There is a sort of podcast episode with Kevin Smith because he directs a lot of conversational movies right and he

[00:40:31] like shot a very short action scene in I think Jay and Silent Bob strikes back or something and he says like how much he hates shooting action so he went to director super hero movie

[00:40:42] probably basically somebody stopping and looking at in the distance and he sort of narrates what's happening in the distance because then you will have to set up shots and show all the action and choreograph and everything.

[00:40:55] It kind of felt like that you know everything is like a reaction shot in this episode where Perry is hearing people getting stabbed in the background.

[00:41:03] Yeah, yeah it's so it and I mean also this I think the show wants this pattern faint pattern faint thing to be like a big reveal or something like that.

[00:41:14] Am I am I right? Amrita is that like going to become a more important character later on?

[00:41:19] Yes.

[00:41:20] I do think you hinted on that last episode too but you didn't say anything much so yeah.

[00:41:27] Sorry, I could show does Logan come back?

[00:41:32] Yeah, yeah, yeah, Logan has more to do as well.

[00:41:37] And then the kind of the final storyline is Morene and Rand are in the polite.

[00:41:46] And then we're on their way to fight the dark one in the blight.

[00:41:53] I think the dark one reaches out to Rand a few times which in a kind of horrific kind of nightmare where we see Morene die very violently.

[00:42:05] And he basically tells Rand that they've not really revealed the powers that he has access to a bit later on when they're finding and well, where is it that they are?

[00:42:17] Amrita, where is that space that they end? Is that the eye of the world?

[00:42:21] I think that is what they I think that's what they mean to be the eye of the world.

[00:42:28] So in the books, the eye of the world is very different but it involves another character that I think they've done away with.

[00:42:35] No.

[00:42:36] So I think this is supposed to be the eye of the world in the show.

[00:42:39] Right. So when they are finally at the eye of the world there's a battle between the man and Rand in kind of like a fictional setting that he's created like a dreamscape where Rand is married and has a child with a queen.

[00:42:55] While Morene is in reality with a with an unconscious Rand kind of having this fight with the man which is not going well and the man ends up taking away Morene's access to the one power.

[00:43:12] And then I think Rand figures out that this is a fantasy and traps the man in like a special Buddha that he a Morene gave her.

[00:43:21] I think that's what happens.

[00:43:23] Amrita, no, no, no, that's not what happens.

[00:43:26] So this special Buddha is like it's like an amplifier.

[00:43:32] Are we calling it that?

[00:43:35] Yeah, I mean it's a perfectly good explanation for what it is.

[00:43:40] And that is literally how it's described in the books too.

[00:43:43] Like they're basically describing a lot of Buddha so I'm like, okay fine.

[00:43:47] But it's an amplifier for the power.

[00:43:51] So if you have, for example, 90 is like 100 times more powerful than any other Isadai.

[00:43:59] If she had this on real, then she would be like a thousand times more powerful like that.

[00:44:05] So it magnifies your power is what it is.

[00:44:09] So what happens is that Ishmael, so the man's name is Ishmael.

[00:44:16] And we find out who he is later on as the city's progresses but Ishmael traps Rand in an alternate universe and tells Rand that you know he can basically

[00:44:28] create that world for himself and make it real and like stay there basically.

[00:44:33] And everything will be lovely and fine.

[00:44:36] And what you see is Rand saying like no, like he'd rather live in a world where you know the woman he loves has a choice as to what she wants to do

[00:44:47] and the life that she wants to lead which is by the way very important.

[00:44:50] Like that is something that is going to resonate throughout the series.

[00:44:55] I thought that was important but the show doesn't make it clear that that's important.

[00:45:00] Yeah, yeah.

[00:45:03] But then what happens is that he, because Rand doesn't know how to channel and he can't learn how to channel for more rain because the process is so different for men and women.

[00:45:15] So Rand actually does something very clever. He lets Ishmael explain to him how to channel.

[00:45:24] And Ishmael tells him and Ishmael is actually trying to trap him which you will realize I don't know if the show is going to like go that direction and explain like how that was a trap but basically Ishmael was trying to trap Rand and instead Rand basically you know like kill some.

[00:45:41] That's what that's what happens.

[00:45:43] Oh he does kill her.

[00:45:45] Yeah, but again, like that is something that is going to be explained later on.

[00:45:50] And Ishmael, the man that was kind of chasing them through it is him.

[00:45:57] Okay, that was a really cool effect though and Rand shoots him with the arrow in the eye and then he just swallows the arrow and then that was really really cool.

[00:46:10] And yeah, even the more rain nightmare where she gets killed that was quite gruesome too.

[00:46:20] The part that works really well for me is how more rain loses their power.

[00:46:28] That was like a really, really big thing like I think that is one of the sequences that really work for me because you.

[00:46:37] One thing that they've established is that being an Isodai and having access to the power and having knowledge of the power is really what more rain has been about in this show.

[00:46:47] So losing that you could really feel it right at least that worked for me.

[00:46:54] What about you, so with that something that kind of got to you?

[00:46:57] I think I was more like sort of disappointed with the journey of land in this show and how it just disappears and shows up when needed.

[00:47:07] And in that scene, he just shows up and he's there to give his shoulder to more rain to be sad and cry about a loss of power but yeah, I was just more thinking about what has this?

[00:47:22] What did Daniel Haney do to the producers to deserve this treatment?

[00:47:28] Lan is Bollywood police at this point. He'll show up after everything is done.

[00:47:33] Exactly, like he should have had some really cool moments in this episode and it just felt I don't know why.

[00:47:42] What is the purpose of casting somebody who is so cool?

[00:47:47] And you know, you have definitely must have trained in a lot of action stuff and must have been built to when he was probably been pitched this role.

[00:47:58] He would have been aware of what sort of a character Lan is and then what the first season delivers on that part is just so disappointing.

[00:48:08] Sorry to totally deviate from your marine scene.

[00:48:13] Yeah, I was totally disappointed about Lan.

[00:48:17] I mean, I agree like Lan has a lot of like amazing moments but also like well we'll talk about this later but like in book to Lan and Rand have a relationship which I don't know how that's going to happen with you know, Rand disappearing.

[00:48:34] Sorry, Lan and who?

[00:48:37] Rand.

[00:48:38] Lan and Rand have a relationship as an like a mentor.

[00:48:43] Okay, okay, you kind of do my word for it.

[00:48:47] Okay, but also like marine like I don't really understand what is melded to her because he's clearly not still her because she if she had been if her connection to the power had been completely set.

[00:49:03] Then she would have also broken her bond with Lan and Lan would no longer be her water.

[00:49:15] So, and if he was not her water, he would immediately feel it and he would go insane the way step in there which didn't happen so.

[00:49:26] The more instil has her powers but she's been shielded in some way and it didn't disappear when ismail disappeared so that's interesting to me.

[00:49:38] But Lan did ask her to kind of you know switch the router on and off again so they can connect but she said you couldn't write.

[00:49:48] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:49:54] I mean there's a lot going on in this sequence right like where like so let's get back to the the man part ismail what are we supposed to kind of like he's not the dark one right?

[00:50:10] No, he's one of the forsaken so in one of the earlier episodes.

[00:50:16] There's actually a sequence about the forsaken and there are these little dolls that I think either Lan or one of the ice that I maybe Alana have like a little array of dolls and it's supposed to be the forsaken and I don't know if I want to tell you more about the forsaken except that they were followers of the dark one and we're going to see many more of them as the series progresses.

[00:50:45] Let's let's get into that a little bit when we get into spoiler and are they like as powerful as ismail the other for seconds because this guy was like single handedly more powerful than marine and run together.

[00:50:58] Yeah, yeah, if there was no amplifier then he would have totally killed them.

[00:51:05] So ismail and Rand in his previous life they were sort of equally matched in the power.

[00:51:12] And then the like these other like demand red and like all these other you know forsaken and they are all like around the same level maybe like a little bit above a little bit below.

[00:51:27] So Rand is also very powerful it's just that he doesn't know how to use any of his power.

[00:51:32] Right, I think that's kind of made clear though but I think also like more input simm in this weird position where you just like let's go find the dark one and you don't know shit you know you'll figure it out when you're in danger you have the power so I was like okay that's taking like a very dangerous bit more in you know so.

[00:51:51] But I like this character I like the actor I like the performance and I kind of added a bit more you know because I don't think.

[00:52:00] The show didn't need a bad guy right and I think even this bad guy kind of came in very late we only see him revealed in the finale and I think that's maybe one of the problems I mean that's maybe that load of the rings thing where you never really see Sauron but you do see Sauron at start you know you know

[00:52:18] there's like a visual representation of him and here I do think when you know even when the Trolluck army is attacking there's no real leader there they're all the same Trollucks you know that kind of thing and you need like a central bad guy and I think the actor did a good job of playing that that character in a way for what he had.

[00:52:41] I also liked his suit it was kind of very modern like the way he was dressed yeah.

[00:52:47] But I'm going to tell you find like the battle between him and and and like the whole dream sequence and that kind of.

[00:52:57] I mean the problem the channel is battling each other is that there isn't anything like dramatic going on which is why the books climax made so much sense when it happened because there was actually like you know like a sword fight going on.

[00:53:15] But here I mean it works pretty much as you would imagine it would you know within the within the lower of the books it's literally like the two of them have a stare off and then land is like boom you're done and then that's it.

[00:53:32] It's almost like that South Park episode where Cartman has learned being a psychic and then.

[00:53:40] Yeah yeah I mean I want to talk a bit more about you but I think we probably might end up in a spoilery kind of thing so let's get into that a little bit on later on but basically the finale is land finds more rain they try to reconnect again that's not going to happen because more

[00:54:02] rain has doesn't have access to the source power anymore the one power anymore then we break to a little girl on a beach on the western coast I think and then an army arrives which like a huge like a Navy that arrives and they've they have their own wisdoms

[00:54:23] and channels and they create like a massive massive wave and basically want to kill the girl or like maybe where she lives and I think they're called the Cianchen army the sunshine sunshine are you

[00:54:37] sunshine Sean Sean Sean Sean Sean Sean.

[00:54:39] And then one more thing that happens is that we see Matt back in on screen and I think he's walking back to Shadar Logot if I'm not.

[00:54:50] Yes yes okay okay so those are the final things that are happening here I'm going to explain to me because can you explain anything without spoilers here or why why the

[00:55:03] army is important. So I don't know why Matt isn't Shadar Logot I think what they're going to do is they're going to change one of the aspects of Matt's like art because this is whole

[00:55:19] thing about him going through a portal to another world and I think they're cutting that out which is very sad because it's really one of the

[00:55:30] better things that happens so I think they're going to make it that Matt goes to Shadar Logot and Shadar Logot functions in the same way as this other portal does in his story which is

[00:55:43] going to be interesting because Shadar Logot is really important for a few reasons either that or else you know they just needed like a

[00:55:53] shot of Matt somewhere and they were like well the only the only shot we have of that particular actor playing Matt is like this one and Shadar Logot so I don't know what's

[00:56:04] happening with that. The Shanshan are very important they are this entire other civilization and they've come from over the

[00:56:14] seas and it's going to be a completely different culture and they're sort of grey they're sort of morally ambiguous in grey and it's going to be

[00:56:28] awesome from what I saw. They seem like the fire nation literally right away they're like you know from the last

[00:56:37] airwinder I don't know if you've seen that show but that's what they really looked like and also quite a horrific kind of

[00:56:44] like the way they've made the wisdoms in their army that looked quite terrible like the wisdoms are not treated

[00:56:54] nicely as they are in the other kingdoms. That's also important. Yeah yeah yeah okay so I mean so joy

[00:57:06] anything to add about these two kind of sequences that get you like excited for season two. Nothing can prepare me

[00:57:13] for season two. I don't know if I mean if you guys really pull my ear I will definitely say

[00:57:23] for season two but at this point no nothing. The big tsunami that they create is not just to kill

[00:57:32] that little girl right they're actually attacking the Western front that's what's happening. I think that but also like I

[00:57:38] think they're floating the ships on to the beach. Okay okay okay I mean I guess that's it I want to like can we now

[00:57:50] get into spoilers a little bit? I think that would be really cool yeah I mean I'm going to

[00:57:57] give us maybe like three things that are really important that might get us like maybe I get

[00:58:02] to join more excited for season two. If they stick close to the books then you're going to see

[00:58:11] a lot of action sequences there's going to be a ton of action coming up because you're going to

[00:58:18] see like Rand is probably going to go to Kamel and he's going to meet you know he's going to meet

[00:58:26] like a princess and then he's going to go to the aisle waste and then you're going to see a lot more

[00:58:31] of the aisle which is what his mom was the one that fought like you know had that cool action sequence.

[00:58:37] So there's going to be that and then there's going to be the whole thing with like Rand and

[00:58:43] Lan hopefully they're going to have like a mentor protégé relationship and then you're

[00:58:51] going to see like what's happening in the tower and with the Sean Chan because it's a lot of

[00:58:57] violence is how gonna happen with both those storylines. In what terms is it between the

[00:59:03] Isodai and that kind of political thing that is going on or so yeah okay and what about

[00:59:09] this uh sunshine army that arrives what are we supposed to take from that is that are they

[00:59:15] vying for power against the Isodai or what are they trying to do. So they are incredibly

[00:59:22] against the Isodai and you'll see like you know what you said you know about how they don't treat

[00:59:27] their channels very nicely that is important that is something that is going to play into

[00:59:32] the larger Sean Chan plot line and also like their culture is like very distinct and I

[00:59:40] actually really enjoy it like it's very problematic but it's also like very enjoyable in a

[00:59:45] very high fantasy way. Okay okay interesting yeah okay that sounds interesting and yeah

[00:59:53] also Rand has basically left the group behind and told more rain that he's been killed which

[01:00:00] is a I didn't really understand why he did that. Oh he says right like when they have been

[01:00:11] touched by the dark one or dark force whatever they go mad and they go in a fit to kill the people

[01:00:18] that they love the most that's why he's isolating basically. Okay that's that's that's the

[01:00:27] reason of it. Yeah he's just trying to you know save everybody from himself that's it. Okay

[01:00:36] lame isn't that the perfect summary of the show? No I thought that was not so that was a bit

[01:00:47] lame yeah okay anything else Samarita that we should know that we should think about yeah

[01:00:55] I think I've got more confused now that we've talked about it than I did then I was

[01:00:59] before and I was really confused at the start but I am still excited for season two I

[01:01:04] want to know how this story ends and who knows like if it takes a long time I might like

[01:01:09] pick up the books and see how you know they did a better job of it you know so who knows

[01:01:13] I did that with Game of Thrones too back in the day. Yeah. At least this one is finished.

[01:01:19] Yeah exactly exactly let's wrap it up I'm not sure if we'll do another episode when like

[01:01:29] people have watched it or we rewatched it or like news comes out and there's like more fan

[01:01:35] series maybe we might do that or we might come back for season two or you know we might

[01:01:41] not come back if so Joy doesn't want to do it let's see but yeah I think this is that

[01:01:46] for this season of The Wheel of Time recap show I really enjoyed it I enjoy talking

[01:01:52] to you guys and I think I would have probably given up on the show if Amirita and

[01:01:56] So Joy we weren't doing the show and we were talking. Oh for sure. It was a lot of fun yeah

[01:02:00] yeah maybe we should do this for the Witcher too because I'm having trouble with that one too

[01:02:06] and I just watched episode one of that have you guys watched it already or I just

[01:02:10] just watched the pilot for it and I'm really enjoying it. I want to give it some time like I'm

[01:02:18] gonna watch it one episode per week yeah I think for After Wheel of Time the Witcher is

[01:02:24] probably going to be really refreshing for you. I've seen season one I'm waiting to see season two

[01:02:32] probably this weekend or something. Okay okay I watched I watched the first episode of season two

[01:02:38] and I watched the recap before watching getting into season two and I was reminded that

[01:02:46] I didn't understand anything that happened in season one. I just kind of like went with it

[01:02:50] and see how things find out but yeah in any case Amirita where can people find you online?

[01:02:56] You can find me on Twitter at Amirita IQ. So Joy? I'm on Twitter at 93k.

[01:03:02] I'm at Asim Burnie you've been listening to The Wheel of Time you podcast recap show.

[01:03:08] Drop us an email at youpodcastingandgmail.com

[01:03:12] Handan podcast is back live so if you want to hear us talk Bollywood we're there

[01:03:16] and yeah we'll be back with another season or whatever this drops we don't know

[01:03:22] but give me back thank you for listening