From Self-Doubt to Self-Worth | Navixha Bagga on Confidence, Seva and Inner Growth

[00:00:00] And just the two words which you said, I stood up for myself, not waiting and not hoping and not fringing. I think, you know Shailja, that especially for women, it has been established and just drilled into our psyche that somebody else is going to be your hero.

[00:00:19] You know, it's so typical. I've seen, I don't know, I don't want to put gender to it but women do it to themselves that they will not respond or take an action but they'll soak it in. Go take that spotlight, claim that spotlight as your own. Stop waiting for it to be offered to you, right? And the moment you do that, that flip, that switch automatically flips.

[00:00:43] Because until I keep waiting for you to tell me that Navixha, you're worth it, you're worth it, you're worth it. I'm just, I'm so desperate. And you're waiting, you're in the queue. I'm waiting. Yeah, so it's the person, not the problems. Because people will only treat you the way you treat yourself. And if you treat yourself with lack of confidence and if you under, I'm giving you license. Shailja, if I treat myself poorly, I am handing that license to you.

[00:01:28] Welcome, Navixha. Thank you so much, Shailja. So exciting and such an honor to be here finally. We spoke a month ago. Was it a month already? And it was a one-hour chat. It was. Not planned to be an hour long. We couldn't stop. I could have just put on the record button. On hindsight, right? On hindsight, yeah. But it felt like such an instant connection with you. Absolutely. Absolutely.

[00:01:53] I mean, I think the sort of journey you are on right now resonates with me at the moment because I'm going through transformation as well. You know, moving from corporate, trying to start my own venture and coaching is one major part of it, but not the only part. I see you doing a lot more of what I've done, which is content, podcasts, creating a lot of visibility in certain areas. You're very passionate about women empowerment especially.

[00:02:21] But we're going to start at a very different chapter. Are you ready for that? Let's roll. Let's go down your memory lane and go into your childhood. Now, me personally, Shailja, I was always a very introverted, thoughtful, introspective child and extremely self-conscious and extremely doubtful of my own self. Wow. Wow.

[00:02:51] I can't imagine. The person I'm meeting today is far from it. She's still there. She's still there. She's still there. She takes work and she's taken a lot of acceptance, compassion and conscious growing. And when were the early realizations that I am not tapping into my full potential? Right. Because when you're talking about that person who's still in, you're talking about a lot of self-love and care. And you also made that person grow.

[00:03:21] Right. Were there any early realizations and were they tough or were they easy realizations? So going back to when, you know, I went to this very popular, very elite girl school in Calcutta. I never really fit in. OK. Where the other girls were all giggling about the boys school on the other side or these movies. And I'm sure they'll ring a bell with you as well.

[00:03:47] The QSQTs and, you know, other blockbusters of those times and the stars coming to various clubs and all the girls who are excited to go meet them. That never sort of rocked my boat, never made my eyes sparkle. I was always seeking for that something magical, fantastic, fantasy based in my life. But I didn't know what it was.

[00:04:14] So I never really felt fully excited, fully fulfilled. I was constantly seeking something. And in those days of early youth and adolescence, I had the misnomer in my mind that maybe it's going to be a night on shining armor. Somebody who will come and roll the red carpet for me and my life will be like some magical romance. But even then, like, I wasn't sure that was quite it.

[00:04:42] So to answer your question, there was a certain emptiness, a certain something magical and something more, except I didn't know what it was. Okay. Now, fast forward a few years later in my maybe early teens. There was this cool girl, Timit, the way she was and short hair. I literally had a boycott and that made me so self-conscious. I'd recently gained glasses as well.

[00:05:08] But coming home each day and tuning into Oprah Winfrey and just losing myself in her demeanor, in her warmth, in her intellect, in her compassion, in her ability to relate with people and unravel their stories. I would come home each afternoon and just dissolve into that space. What was so exciting about people's stories to you at that age?

[00:05:36] It was about nurturing human conversation, mutual learning from each other, sharing of that human experience and understanding this fabric that connects and binds all of us together. So in that connectivity, I just felt that this is my space. This is my zone.

[00:06:01] And somewhere it began to maybe just germinate that I want to be a talk show host when I grow up. So somewhere in your subconscious mind, there was some picture which was being formed. Yes. Because you felt good when you're watching and sitting in that space. That human to human connection is what is making you happy. At least watching it. And it seemed so distant.

[00:06:27] It seemed so improbable that, you know, that doesn't happen to people like us. No. But it's at the germination, I guess, began then. Yeah. Did you see anything come close to it during your college time or otherwise? No. I was always the girl, not the backbencher, but somewhere in distinct, nondescript in the middle. Never the one on the stage. Never the one emceeing. Never the one debating. Uh-uh.

[00:06:56] But a switch did flip for me in my early 20s. Without meaning to, I just stumbled upon a spiritual pathway. And I think, boom, swoosh. Like so much was cleared for me. I was not anticipating it, not expecting. And I think I was born again after that. What really switched? I connected with my own inner potential. Okay.

[00:07:23] Literally, like I said, somebody who's just sitting lost in the crowds. I started enjoying being this person with the microphone, talking to my people, my group, connecting with them, helping them blossom and come out of their comfort zone and their shell as well. And the more I did that, guess who was growing the most in this whole journey? Yeah. I was. And I could not stop. Okay.

[00:07:49] And when you went through this spiritual journey, was an effort you were making or the techniques were working on you? And you were just witnessing all of that happen. So I've given myself, you know, I painted this really very demure picture of myself. Let me share some other shades to my personality as well. So, please. I had read a lot growing up in my early years because obviously if you're not social, if you're not, you're doing something with your time.

[00:08:18] So I'd done a lot of reading. And that in my head had given me this whole bloated intellect that I know it all. Like I figured it all out. I have all the formulas in my head. So when I first experienced this workshop, I'm telling you, it was such a humbling experience. It's like somebody had taken literally a hammer and shattered all these walls of ego and self projection that I had constructed.

[00:08:47] And what I understood Shailaja is that granted, I may have known many of these concepts, but I was not implementing or practicing ZIT out of those. Okay. And that hit hard. So with the, in tandem with the techniques that I was taught, the breathing, the breath work, the introspection, the swadhyay, the service, seva, all of that, right?

[00:09:15] Those were my tools that helped me ingrain these concepts and to start inviting and practicing them in my life. Okay. So fair to say when you are doing techniques like breath work, more expanded awareness, you do get in touch with a part of you which is shrouded by ego. Right. Right.

[00:09:36] So it goes beyond the ego identification and you feel, no, I can do this as well and I can do more seva as well and I can contribute more to the society as well. I mean, that's a sense I'm getting. Yeah. Yeah. And I think you resonated that very closely because if we are just in that headspace, we can only develop one part of our faculties. That's never complete or total growth.

[00:10:02] And in order for us to blossom fully as a person, we have to connect with our emotions. And we've got to make that connection between heart space and headspace more intuitive, more emotionally intelligent. It's not just about brain intelligence now. It's about emotional intelligence. And for that, you've got to go with it deeper. And towards that, the breath, I guess, is the most amazing tool. Okay. Okay.

[00:10:28] So before you go ahead in timeline, I just want to come back a little and it's going to be important for our audience as well. Because you balance the corporate and the corporate world with the inner growth. Right. And you did it beautifully. And it was happening parallelly from what I can see in terms of timelines. Right. Yes. So you were working in IT and you were doing pretty well and you were having your own sort of learnings and challenges there as well.

[00:10:55] So how did this breath work, inner work really help you to excel in corporate? It helped me grapple with and overcome my own self-doubt. Okay. Because, you know, somewhere intrinsically we are who we are. So this self-doubt is at my core. I guess this is a part that needs deep nurturing.

[00:11:16] And it would get easily, I guess, inflamed or under scrutiny in the corporate space where everybody is so extremely qualified, so extremely confident. And I don't even look like them. I don't even sound like them. And I'm talking about corporate America here. So from Calcutta, somewhere in my mid-20s life shifted. Marriage happened. Work happened. Both simultaneously. And I moved continents and cultures from Calcutta to Philadelphia, US.

[00:11:47] And my husband, I don't know where in the timeline this fits in, but has always been my most audacious supporter. My soulmate, my partner, my, you know, really crime buddy through it all. Thank you. He's sitting right here. And thank you for supporting my soul sister. No, absolutely. We need partners in life who can actually be real partners, you know, through thick and thin. And really happy to know that he's been one.

[00:12:15] So I live vicariously off of him. For all that lack of confidence, which was part of me. I had somebody cheering for me who was bursting with confidence. So that sort of I lucked out. It gave me that impetus. And you know, like they say, I don't subscribe to fake it till you make it. But it's a process of becoming. And that fuel helped me in my journey of becoming. So and I guess I was always a very hard worker.

[00:12:44] In one of your interviews, you mentioned that it, you know, it was always difficult to get seat at the table. Yeah. And it comes from a also a space of little pain, which I can feel when I'm watching that video. Yeah. Is there any incident behind it? Because it's not offered. To me, it was never offered. Okay. And I wasn't someone who'd ask for it. I always felt that behind the sidelines, there's no need. You don't deserve the spotlight. No, no, no, no, no.

[00:13:12] You just back off a little. Do your hard work. And sooner or later, they shall notice. And they noticed, but not to highlight my work, but to assign more. Okay. Okay. So that, so for me to really, I felt like, how can I be so shameless to seek more, to seek that next level, the promotion, the raise, whatever. That's shamelessness to me. That was my fallacy.

[00:13:42] So you will, oh, now I know, and this is what I say to my clients now, and we work on it. Because people will only treat you the way you treat yourself. And if you treat yourself with lack of confidence. It will show. If you under, I'm giving you license. Shailja, if I treat myself poorly, I am handing that license to you. And I did that. Okay. Yeah. But did you see a switch happening there as well with your inner practices, inner mastery you were working towards?

[00:14:12] You said that this is what was going on. And this is the lay of the land when it comes to corporate world. Right. But with the new found wisdom which you got from inner work, did you apply it then? Certainly. Okay. Because through my entire intense 20 years of corporate and IT and then leadership also happened.

[00:14:33] And I did many amazing things and managed global teams and cross-sectional stakeholders, internal, external, government-facing stakeholders and high visibility projects, etc. Did all of that. But where was this inner, I guess, nurturing or fuel coming from? Well, family, of course, as I said, was a big support system. But I was doing a lot of hands-on work through my spiritual organization and my volunteering and developing other people continuously.

[00:15:03] Through the birth of my first child. Literally, I'm telling you, I delivered my first baby and my husband and I, okay, delivery done. The child is all healthy. Everything is going on now. But in the meantime, three days in the hospital or two days. What are you going to do? So we had a big advanced level retreat happening in our area that we were hosting a few weeks out. And a very senior American instructor was coming and he was going to... So we would answer emails in between.

[00:15:31] I've just, okay, eight hours since my baby's been delivered, coordinating all of that. So that kept me going. And we all know that, you know, the more you give, the more you get. Sure. So this was my inner, I guess, stoking my bravado, giving me that confidence and filling that lack. I had so much lack. It's pathetic when I look back at myself. I was so needy.

[00:15:55] And I guess just doing this work, applying myself and helping others develop, just did tremendous, tremendous leaps of growth to my own self. So just for our audiences, when we are saying seva and service. So essentially it is that when you do work unconditionally without any expectations in return is the work which you were doing at that time. And it was being done at a community level, at government body level and in prisons.

[00:16:25] And all of that gave you a lot of goodwill back. Yes. Which then the goodwill went back to the corporate boardrooms. Yes. Which gave you energy to face anything and everything which was coming your way. See, seva is also a mechanism to upskill. You polish so many skills. Can I name a few? Yes, please. I'm sure you know them already, right? But for everybody's benefit. Yes. Problem solving. Leading without having authority. Communication.

[00:16:55] Lovely. Logistical planning. Financial planning. Project planning. If you're organizing a big event, you can only imagine the different components associated with it. Budget planning. And what was I doing at work? I was a portfolio program manager. So all these skills, risk mitigation. Team management. Team management. Work allocation. Communication. Yeah. So seva is not, you know, let's not portray seva. Some people may have this concept that, oh, poor you.

[00:17:24] You're just giving like without, you know, just selflessly giving. No, no, no. Seva helps you develop and find that inner potential and really achieve a more optimized version of yourself. You grow in your skills and your capabilities. Beautifully put. And that happened to me. That happened to you. And you could see that impact coming into work. Absolutely. Right? Yeah. So the same situation, same problem seemed lighter and easy to handle. Yes. If I can say it. Yes.

[00:17:54] Because the situations would be, would have been similar anyway. Right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And pick at me, they did. Okay. Whether it was in the conference rooms, whether it was IMs and gaggles of laughter and giggling down the aisle. I knew what was happening. I guess the others did too. But for them, it was a show. They were all spectators enjoying, you know, free entertainment. And then one day, I guess, maybe something happened.

[00:18:23] I don't distinctly remember what triggered it. But one day I invited the two ladies into the conference room. They didn't know what it was like, you know, was it a common project or what? Because it didn't sound like an official meeting. They showed up full of their condescending attitude. And I looked them squarely in the eye and I said it in black and white. What is so funny? Okay. Why do you do that?

[00:18:53] Okay. What can I do different? I feel terrible. Please don't do that. Please don't pass those chits when I'm on the table myself. I see you doing it. I hear the laughter. It makes me feel terrible. Their heartbeats stopped. There was pin-drop silence in that whole big wide room. Their jaws hung down, literally scraping the floor. I was worried for them. But you know, let them not go into some panic attack.

[00:19:23] They froze. They could not imagine. That you're going to confront like this. That this weakling would have the gall to sit down and say this. And I said it like a stoic. No emotion. Like now I'm, you know, feeling all those things and I'm feeling the tingling. But when I said it to them, it was said with utmost calm. And they left in that frozen state. And then I guess the floodgates opened and I had this breakdown and I cried. But nobody else saw it. I cried.

[00:19:54] Picked myself up. Walked out. Nothing worked through that afternoon. Next day, the leader of the organization who was a senior director. She invited me into her office. And I was a consultant in this role. Okay. And I was trembling a little that I got myself in the naughty book. Are they going to like, you know, just dissolve my contract? What happened? And she said, congratulations Naviksha. Okay.

[00:20:22] This is the kind of culture and value system we're looking to create an uproot. Thank you for showing our employees what we could not. Okay. And I walked out of that troupe with a five buck raise. Wow. Which. One pat on your back on the picture. I guess was such an affirmation. Yeah. That stop underselling yourself. Stop sticking out that nonsense. And stand up more for yourself.

[00:20:51] That was my lesson. Stand up more for yourself. Stand up. And I learned that huge lesson. Maybe not extremely consciously. But I think it was set in me for life. That stop being your own adversary. And start being your own champion. Lovely. Kudos. And we are so happy you did that. And just this story which you're sharing and many more are going to listen and watch will bring that impact.

[00:21:21] Thank you. You know, it's so typical. I've seen, I don't know, I don't want to put gender to it, but women do it to themselves that they will not respond or take an action, but they'll soak it in. And soak it into the point that it goes messy or it hurts. And just the two words which you said, I stood up for myself. Not waiting and not hoping and not fringing, right? It's just you. And lovely. Thanks for sharing this.

[00:21:50] Sure. I think, you know, Shailja, that especially for women, it has been established and just drilled into our psyche that somebody else is going to be your hero. Yeah. Someone will come to the house or, you know, your husband, your dad or somebody else is going to be that protector for you and be that hero. Like you don't need to stand up for yourself because it will be done. But why will it be done? I am capable. I've got it. I can do it for myself.

[00:22:21] So I guess that is the mindset shift that all women need to recognize. Granted, you will have that support system. You may or you may not. But that should be optional. What is mandatory is that you be your own survival system and you be your own defense and your own supporter.

[00:22:44] So all this power and all the, you know, the rigor which you got in was because of your spiritual practices, your breath works and your seva and service. And then it became a second nature is from what I'm guessing. Yeah. If there is somebody watching this right now, let's say, and they don't have all this. They don't have these techniques. They're saying, yeah, this is easy for us. We will do it. So do you have anything to tell them?

[00:23:13] Let me share an anecdote. Yeah, please. Frequently. Frequently. Recently, but frequently women come to me and they have this issue that I don't fit into my friend circle. And this is now women in their 40s, 50s are stage of life. The other women, they laugh at me and I went on a vacation and I shared those pictures and I can tell they are making fun of me or my outfits or this or that. What do I do? I want to get along with them.

[00:23:43] Okay. So what are you doing so that you find greater confidence? Not acceptance. But do you feel kind of, no, I have no confidence. I've lost. What are you doing to build yourself up? I don't know. Nothing. Maybe I will join one more party. Maybe I will call them. Stop. You cannot beg or pay your way through acceptance. Okay.

[00:24:11] The only way to grow is by investing in yourself and working on yourself and growing in different ways. See, very practically speaking, if I am upskilling myself, or if I have a spiritual practice or, you know, I'm learning a hobby. Obviously, I have less time to think about all those other people and other nonsense. I'm occupied constructively. And in this process, I'm also growing.

[00:24:38] And the more we grow, the more all the stupid and frivolous things start dropping from our mind. Stress later. You'll get stuck there. Huh. And it's a vicious cycle then. Absolutely. Never ends. Absolutely. You know, there's something very interesting which you've been talking about. And I'm very happy when you say that. It's about that women should not look for validation from outside. Right? We touched upon it briefly. Yeah.

[00:25:04] And it's also core to what you teach now in your programs. And you talk very passionately about this. And I see a lot of, I come from branded content and content marketing. I see a lot of brands also picking up on this narrative. Right? That, for example, just naming. L'Oreal. I'm worth it. I mean, earlier, it was about you are worth it. Right? So, their tagline was you are worth it for decades and decades together.

[00:25:31] And off late, maybe five, seven years, they've changed their tagline to I'm worth it. So, you see how the validation is also evolved. I don't need validation outside. I'm validating myself that I'm worth it. Right? Basically, pop culture, content marketing always reflects what's happening in life per se. Okay. So, how are you bringing this in at the core of your programs? And any breakthroughs, again, you've seen? Yes.

[00:26:00] And again, this is my own story. I said I was extremely needy. And the moment I realized that I am the one who needs to cheer, be your own cheerleader. Champion. Yeah. Go take that spotlight. Claim that spotlight as your own. Stop waiting for it to be offered to you. Right? And the moment you do that, that flip, that switch automatically flips. Because until I keep waiting for you to tell me that, Naviksha, you're worth it. You're worth it. You're worth it. I'm just, I'm so desperate.

[00:26:31] And you're waiting. You're in the queue. I'm waiting. Right? Yeah. Right? She noticed her. She noticed her. Noticed her. When is she going to notice me? But if I can fulfill that for me, myself, then I fulfill the prophecy of being worth it as well. So how does this manifest when it comes to working with my clients? Whether it's somebody who wants to blossom into that next leadership role at work.

[00:26:56] Whether it's somebody who wants to amend her relationships with her family members, in-laws, parents, whatever. Whether it's somebody who wants to come out of a toxic relationship. Okay. It all has to start with inner self-work. What are you feeding your soul? How are you taking care of yourself, your wounds? How are you becoming better every single day? And how are you becoming more peaceful every single day?

[00:27:21] And then again, the beauty of this is that A, you bolster your own inner tenacity. You become more resilient. Because you've improved the quality of your inner being. You've upgraded. Exactly. Exactly. The upgraded fabric is more. We all know that. But the other one has two lines. It's been opened. So you upgrade that inner fabric for yourself, number one.

[00:27:49] And number two, once you heighten your inner consciousness, you yourself, your lens changes. Lens changes. And then you stop noticing all the issues, all the little things that are holding you back. And from that microscopic, you develop a macro view of your life. And that helps you with perspective. And then we start the remediation. Got it. So if anybody comes with me with any problem that I'm getting a promotion,

[00:28:18] that boss is behind me, that mother-in-law is behind me. Let's park all of that. Let's focus on you first. Let's build you. So it's the person, not the problems. Yes. So coming to this and the other thing in common with us is coaching as well. And coaching is very different from the inner work which you've done. Right? So inner work was more about techniques and techniques working on yourself.

[00:28:46] And coaching is more about then you're the thinking partner. And you're letting the person sort of evolve and let them take the action in their life. What transformations did you come across in your life when you were learning coaching leadership program at Yale? And I'm sure you went through a program to learn coaching. You were coached by some great coaches out there. Did you see any transformations happen within you before you started?

[00:29:17] And I did undertake a leadership certification through the Yale school as well. But truth be told, Shailja, between you and I and your audience, I think my biggest learnings have been through life itself. Through life. So life has taught you. Yeah. And this entire person who's a lifelong coachee in you. Yeah. Right? The one who's saying that, no, I have to take action. Motivation is okay.

[00:29:45] But I need to take action in my life. And that has become very core to who you are as a coach. Because when I see and I get a sense of your programs, you're very action oriented. Very active. I think you also call yourself like an active wellness and emotional well-being coach. Right? If I have called it out properly. Yeah. Action oriented. Action oriented. So growth mode on is important to you. Yes.

[00:30:14] So can we just stay here and unpack it a little bit so that audiences also understand? When we say growth mode on versus fixed mindset, what is really going on? Why are people then stuck to fixed and not growing if growth is so great? Because is growth really fixed? And if most of us look back in our life, right? We've been stuck in many places, in many concepts, in our minds, whatever, habits.

[00:30:44] And we've grown in so many places as well. See that? And where we've grown, we've discovered something more powerful, something more beautiful. Yes. And where we haven't, that small zone of staying stuck has also magnified and it's become a bigger problem. Correct. You see that? So I guess my approach is that either you subscribe to the problem and you contribute to the problem or you choose being a part of that solution and designing that solution.

[00:31:14] Okay. So to me, that's the primary difference of growth mode on or what did you say? Fixed mindset. Fixed mindset. Yes. Yes. Because when you are fixed, you've already put a cap to it. Yeah. You're already confined. You know, you set that limits. So coming to this, Navik Shah, and because coaching is very new in India, I'm sure it's taken off big time in US and other places. It always gets confused between, I'm going to take a coaching from my home.

[00:31:44] There are therapists, counselors. Right? So what does a coach really do? And you'll be surprised when I speak to my clients and they're like, oh, you don't have any suggestions? I say, no, I'm a thinking partner. Like I'm qualified to take you through the journey. So you start taking your own action. So let's just talk about a little bit more in terms of why it is important for the person to take an action and not coming as a suggestion from someone. The ownership.

[00:32:13] I'm laughing because of this. Recent incident. Okay. Please. Let me share that. So in working with one of my youth students, she was experiencing anxiety from an academic standpoint. And you know how it is with all teenagers. God damn it. I was there myself too. And I have teams at home. So we all know that. Two of them. Yes, two of them. That too. So what difference of opinion? Bolo. Generational gap. Bolo. Jogo bolo. Sare challenges hai.

[00:32:43] Kabhi room ganda hai. Kabhi saf hai. Kabhi laundry is getting stacked in time. Kabhi it's not. Sure. So when parents make that same common sense counsel that wake up 10 minutes early, have your breakfast, hydrate well, what happens? Literally in the tone that I just emulated, the teen hears it as constant nagging. Constant lecturing.

[00:33:08] It comes to a point where the child wants to shut out the parents, not just mentally, but literally also keep the door to their bedroom perpetually closed. Yeah. So then finally, but I compliment these parents. At least they understand and they take the right action to hire a coach and pay the coach and you know, have their child spend their time doing this work. And now the same child is taking care of her things. They're not having those panic attacks.

[00:33:37] They are notching up their grades. Their relationship with their parents is improving. So there are many parents who are so complimentary. And I guess any parent would be relieved to see your child thrive better. Right. But there are some who will also say that, we have been saying the same thing to him for so long. Same only coach. We said you meditate.

[00:34:02] No, when you say, and the biggest irony, everybody out there, I'm a coach. I help other kids develop and become more blossomed. But I am ineffective after a certain point with my own kids. I can understand. Because I'm mom, I'm not coach to them. Yeah. Yeah. That's a tough one, right? Like you really can't coach. They also say you can't coach your direct reportees. Yeah. It's the same reason.

[00:34:30] Going to OYL, it started as a blog for you. Organicize. Organicize. Organicize your life. Got it. Yeah. Got it. And then this took shape of workshops, classes, masterclasses. No. No. I was still in my corporate, you know. You were still working. Gamut there. Okay. But to my own shock, the Facebook space started garnering a lot of traction. I was shocked more than anybody else.

[00:34:58] Of course, a lot of backlash as well. Are you kidding me? There was hate. There was trolling. There was all that drama as well. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. But through it, there were so many women who were saying that you really helped me there. Okay. And that really touched me. And I was enjoying the journey. I was not looking for any monetization. I was not looking for any so many K followers. I was enjoying that journey of expressing and communicating. This is your personal reflections or this is life observation?

[00:35:28] My personal life observations in general. Even my learning moments where I have caught myself and I have picked myself from a poorer choice to a better choice. Can you give an example? Losing my patience at someone, maybe even at checkout at the grocery store. Okay. And being a little abrupt or abrasive than I should have been. Okay.

[00:35:52] And realizing that before leaving the store, turning around, apologizing with a bright smile and wishing them a good day. So more conscious living. More conscious living in the vicinity, full view of other people who observe the whole thing. Got it. Yeah. When you actually start planning to move out of corporate. And you're financially supporting your family at that time.

[00:36:19] Was there a conversation you had with your husband, your kids that this is what you're deciding? And how did you go about it? This is going to touch into some raw areas of my life. Are you okay to do it? Let's do it. Okay. Okay. So, but thank you for asking. So, I never could muster the courage to really take a hard call. And I wasn't, like I said, my blog was not monetized.

[00:36:46] It was a passion project of mine and it was having impact, but it had no monetary returns. Okay. And it never struck me that this could actually be a mode of earning as well. Okay. So, corporate was always my source of livelihood. Yeah. And that continued. I mean, I didn't know where I wanted to go. I mean, I was, I think, still actively seeking that next role. VP. If it's been a role, then we'll become a VP. We'll do it. I was looking at all of that.

[00:37:13] And then boom, life happens. And I guess the economy has really shifted and changed as so many of us have experienced or witnessed it. So, that I was directly hit by it two years ago. And my very high titled role was eliminated. Okay. My position was dissolved. And then it was a moment of reckoning. Now, the blog, the social media was all thriving at that point.

[00:37:41] But again, as an altar shade to my personality, not as my pride. Right? Sure. And at that moment, Shailija, there is somebody I look up to who's part of the spiritual organization that I mentioned earlier. And they coached me and asked me that, what do you really want to do? Like, you know, you'll get that next title. Do you know if you can sustain it or how long you can sustain it? Or whether it's somebody else's choice. Right?

[00:38:11] Got it. To take that, yank that away. And will that really bring you fulfillment? And what it is that will fulfill you? And what is your purpose? And they also, and I was still full of self-doubt that, you know, how do I go? This is like, I've never done that. So, they said, okay, look at your social media. Look at all this followership. These people trust you. So, if you introduce to them that, okay, now you are doing this professionally and you're coaching professionally.

[00:38:40] Do you think they would want to? And I just put it out in my stories. And that's where my first couple of clients came from. But I still wasn't sure. So, how's it been as a coach after that? How's your journey been for two, three years now? I think I've grown the most in my life in these past two years. Am I where I want to be in terms of success or impact? No. But have I come a million miles from where I started off two years ago?

[00:39:09] For sure. So, there is a become a much more smarter in how I plan and my logistics, my approach, my, you know, networking, all of that. My connections have really blossomed and snowballed my, the people that I'm working with. So, it's all, there's a lot of impatience in me as well because it seems sometimes that it's happening at a very snail, painful pace. But I have to get, but I've got to get real as well.

[00:39:39] A lot has happened in the two years. And maybe I'm hoping this is the year, 2026 is the year where bigger breakthroughs, more traction, more velocity. Absolutely. Thank you. Absolutely. We bless you with that and with your unstoppable spirit, stay with you and blossom. See, you've always been a coach, right? You coach yourself through inner transformation, inner mastery.

[00:40:06] And then three years, you're professionally coaching your clients. And this is women and this is teenagers, corporates, leaders. You've trained everybody or you've coached everyone. Now, if you were to look at people out there who want to get into coaching industry, are there any steps to follow for them?

[00:40:33] Firstly, understand why you want to coach and what is it that you're bringing to the table. Okay. And see what tangible shifts have you been able to make in your own life? Because this becomes your soil. And if the soil is not well fertilized, if it's not rich in minerals in itself, then it will not be able to help others grow. So, take an honest look at yourself. Take some time.

[00:41:02] Do that whole inner work. Got it. And then have clarity. Please don't try to have a perfect plan because it's going to change so many times that you will have no control over it. But at least have something more tangible before you put yourself out there. Like because there has got to be a specific call to action. Just saying that I'm a coach. Okay. But how do I help others? And what value do I bring? Okay. One, I guess, a concrete tip that I can make.

[00:41:32] And this is something I learned myself. Sure. That I provide mindset shift or I provide inner work or I provide whatever else that I do. Nobody is interested. Excuse me. No one's interested in knowing what you provide. All they care about is how will this help me?

[00:41:52] So, frame it in such a manner, not from the stance of your delivery, but the benefit, growth, impact, value to your client. One high achiever, how do you avoid burnout in your life? Because you're doing quite a bit.

[00:42:12] Yes, I have some days where I completely give in and I don't force myself to be everywhere, look a certain way. I allow myself those few days of slump so that I can sleep in a little. If my meals have to slide off and have to even assign them to a family or they need to do takeout, that's fine. I've stopped striving for perfectionism. Okay.

[00:42:40] So, perfectionist is not a… No, I will pick and choose where I want to be perfect. And I'm okay because it's my decision. So, you're intentionally choosing. Yes, yes, yes. Let's talk about this because, you know, we've seen, especially with women, Devi's hands are very good. So, you have to be perfectionist in everything which you do. And how do we set intention behind it and be okay with what we are not picking up, you know, and be at rest.

[00:43:07] So, let's see how you've done in your life. So, there are long-term priorities and short-term priorities. Sure. So, long-term, obviously, the wellness of your family, well-being, children, education, these are important things, your health, your projects, all of that, right? And then, short-term, if I am crashing and burning right now, is it really what is more important? That my child, my family gets that fresh home-cooked meal right now?

[00:43:34] Or, if there is a pitch I have to deliver because I could potentially get a breakthrough at, you know, for an important contract, I work on my pitch. So, in the short-term, you have to pick and choose. Because irrefutably, something will suffer, one or the other or all of these areas will suffer. Okay. You know, you've been talking about getting seat at the table right at the beginning of the show. And now, you're getting seat at the table everywhere. How does it make you feel?

[00:44:04] The shift two decades down the line. I think the shift really has happened a lot more in terms of how I perceive myself. I don't know how I perceive myself. I give myself a lot of credit. I've been strong. I've seen some real storms, all of that. So, I give myself that credit and I applaud my strength. Okay. That's the personal shift. But the external shift might be that people perhaps perceive me a little differently.

[00:44:34] Now. Okay. You can see that. I can see that. Yeah. Yeah. Does it put a smile on your face? It does. And for certain, for some of them, it even puts a grin. Okay. So, with women you coach, right? What's one question you ask often brings them to tears or silence? Why did you wait so long? Ah. Painful one. What took you so long?

[00:45:06] Most often it's this. Did he change? Because by now they've told me umpteen instances of how they've experienced toxicity one after the other. How they've been the victim of gaslighting. Your only option is to set boundaries or to step off. Got it. Got it. Um. These seem to be really impacted you. I mean, I can feel it, you know, like when you're talking about it.

[00:45:35] These are some of the stories that I have really seen. Yeah. Okay. So, can you also recall a coaching moment where the client's breakthrough mirrored a struggle you once had in your own life? And it happens, you know, as coaches, we have been told that most of the time you'll get a client with a problem which you're yourself facing in your life. Um.

[00:45:59] I guess lack of just finding your own inner voice and your confidence and speaking up for yourself is the biggest. Because that has been my the rawest side of myself. Okay. So, self-doubt. Yeah. Stop needing external validation. Hmm. Knowing I am enough. And knowing this from within. Knowing this at the soul level, at an emotional level. Hmm.

[00:46:27] And so that aside from that, there's always constant learnings. For instance, if there's someone, you know, who's doing a lot for their parents or not doing enough. Hmm. Makes me realize that I, we live of course continents apart. But sometimes I'm not emotionally as plugged into them as I want to be or I should be. Should be. And yeah. And that, that, you know, that makes me do better as a daughter. Okay. Yeah.

[00:46:56] And you're also living not in India. Right. So how has living been, how's it been like living outside India, different culture, adopting different identities literally. Right. And moving from corporate and now into coaching. You've gone through a lot. Yes. Right. It's, it's been breaking barriers all through and through for you. But does it question you? You question yourself sometimes that where do I belong?

[00:47:25] Or your identity so solidified in yourself that it is me. It really doesn't matter the land I'm sitting on or the soil I'm walking on. No, because I think I am finally connecting with the person that I always was. And now I have the courage to own her fully. Wow. Very well said. And from Naviksha, like you said, different identities from Naviksha to my friends being Navi.

[00:47:52] And now to the Western population being Coach Navi. When I look at it, all these different names, but essentially the person, she is the same. And Shailija for me, because I was with the spiritual organization and people where I live in the US, they have seen me as an ambassador of this organization and doing the hands-on work and coaching. So they already knew me and recognized me in that space.

[00:48:20] It's not that suddenly one day I decided to roll off the bed and say, okay, I got a certificate and now everybody I'm a coach. Yeah, sure. So it's essentially taking you back home is what I'm sensing, right? So you always knew inside who that vulnerable little Naviksha is. But now you're closer to her. Now I can own it. It really doesn't matter. And you owned her completely. Yes.

[00:48:46] What myth about midlife reinvention do you wish people would stop believing in? Damn, have you not seen my TED talk already, people? So, yeah. So it is that this is not the end. This is not game over. The second chapter. This is game on. And whether it's the second chapter or the third chapter or fourth chapter, but you begin that new chapter. You don't second guess yourself. Okay. So coming to our quick bites.

[00:49:16] You ready for that? Let's do it. So one question every woman at the crossroads should ask herself. Who do I want to be when I grow up? To have a vision, have a purpose. Have a vision. And are you actioning that? If not, what are you waiting for? Got it. What's the most underrated leadership skill that never appears on a resume? Self-awareness.

[00:49:43] Imagine a leader who has no handle on their own temperament, right? How are they going to teach communication or effectively communicate with their team? True that. Yeah. Name a habit more transformative than any promotion you ever received. Learning to stand up for myself. That was very profound. Yeah. That experience. You found your voice. I could speak up. Like I said, I had a seat at the table, but I did not have a voice.

[00:50:13] Because I had to speak up and I had to make my voice heard, right? So the more confident I started becoming about myself, and the more I started treating myself as an equal, I began speaking up. I started taking more responsibility. I started showing up as an equal amongst other leaders. So that in itself just resolved and dissolved so many blockages for me. So many other blockages. Lovely. Which emotion did you have to befriend?

[00:50:43] To stop seeking approval. Self-acceptance. And just going a little easier on my own self. And I know this is for a fact. This is not just my own story or saga. We are our worst critiques. Most people, especially women. So cutting myself some slack and some grace. And saying, okay, if I messed up. That I can, let me take a pause. Come back and let me do better. So it's not giving yourself a license.

[00:51:12] But you know, it's okay. I'm not going to go and kill myself for this. I will take some hard lessons and I will work on that. Self-acceptance. Lovely. What does self-respect look like in the middle of a messy day? Honoring what is truly important to me. Because when things are going messy, something obviously is not working out.

[00:51:37] But through all of this dynamic, what are the truly true most important things? And am I safeguarding those in the moment or not? That could be the emotional health of my family. That could be the atmosphere of my family. That could be maybe some financial task that I have to ensure is gotten done. Whether I have to go to the bank or make a call to customer care.

[00:52:03] Like through this whole messy equation, what are the true important priorities that will have long-term effect? Sure. So you're shifting your energies. Yes. Instead of draining, you're saying, okay, let me put on two positive or three positive and that'll take me ahead. Like I have to feel upset. I have to feel angry. But if this needs to be done, I will do that. I will do it. What's the thing you stop doing that set you free? Stop waiting for things to change.

[00:52:31] If I had to take that step to change them and then they may or they may not change. But if I don't even take that step, they will never change. And there are so many times that women choose not to enter the workforce because if I do that, who will cook? Who will take again a macro view? Does it serve your family better actually to outsource the cooking and the cleaning and for you to go and get that paycheck? I mean, figure out what suits your equation the best and decide based on that.

[00:53:00] And not just by societal programming. Got it. So finish this sentence. For me, the unstoppable spirit means to fall and to get up once again. Thank you. Thank you, Namiksha for bringing in so much positive energy. And I haven't seen a person who's constantly endorsing growth. Thank you so much, Shailja.

[00:53:28] It speaks through everything I have seen, read about you now that I met you today. You are growth in entirety. Right? And unstoppable for me would be somebody who really doesn't want to stop because there's no reason to stop for you. Right? And that's the thing. You're saying, I will fall but I will get up. It really doesn't matter. Thank you. Thank you.