In this episode of 'Unmute with PRCAI', host Niret Alva engages in an in-depth conversation with globally acclaimed author, thought leader, and former top executive from Procter & Gamble, Gurcharan Das.
Born in pre-partition India, Mr. Das offers rich anecdotes from his childhood, insights into his personal philosophy, reflections on the transformation of India, his meaningful career shifts, and the evolution of global business environments. He also shares his views on leadership, the democratising force of technology, the impact of AI on jobs, and his concerns over the decline in global liberalism.
Chapters
00:32 Early Life and Experiences
00:55 Reflections on Life and Memory
02:32 Childhood Stories and Lessons
02:32 Experiences During the Partition of India
04:03 Transition from Corporate Career to Writing
06:12 Reflections on India's Economic Reforms
08:35 Personal Experiences with Corruption
08:35 Writing Journey and Motivations
13:36 Discussion on Brand India and Future Challenges
18:25 The Challenge of Investment and Job Creation
19:07 The Importance of Selling Reforms
20:38 The Interdependence in Business
22:24 The Contrast Between Bombay and Delhi
23:36 The Role of Attitude in Business Success
26:23 The Hallmarks of a Great Leader
27:47 Balancing Life, Work, and Creativity
27:47 The Impact of AI on Jobs and Society
29:29 The Changing Landscape of Publishing and Communication
32:31 Reflections on Liberalism and Freedom
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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Unmute with PR CA I. This
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Speaker 1: podcast is brought to you by a factors PR and
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Speaker 1: I'm Net Alba. We have a very special guest of
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Speaker 1: the show this week. He's an alumnus of the Harvard
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Speaker 1: Business School and has been featured in three case studies
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Speaker 1: of the school itself. He's held top management positions at
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Speaker 1: Procter and Gamble in India and abroad, and that was
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Speaker 1: not enough. He's a prolific author, thought leader and a
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Speaker 1: management guru. Mr. G and Das, welcome to Unmute with
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Speaker 1: PR C. I
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Speaker 1: thank you. Yeah, you were born in pre partition in
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Speaker 1: the prepart days in fad and have been a witness
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Speaker 1: to the tumultuous birth of a nation and its growth
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Speaker 1: and evolution over several decades. Tell us a little bit
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Speaker 1: about your early years and how they fashioned you into
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Speaker 1: the person you eventually became.
00:00:53
Speaker 1: That's a good, good question. That's a good timing, too,
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Speaker 1: because I've just been reliving my life. You know, when
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Speaker 1: you write a memoir, you you relive your life and
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Speaker 1: the nice thing about reliving your life is that you
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Speaker 1: can play God. You can choose what ha, What are
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Speaker 1: the incidents that happened to you And what, uh, that
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Speaker 1: and things that you don't want to talk about.
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Speaker 1: And and, uh and I must say one thing. I
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Speaker 1: found that reliving your life is better than living it,
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Speaker 1: and the it sounds a bit odd, but the the
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Speaker 1: fact is that it's like the memory memory of an
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Speaker 1: incident is is better than the incident itself. Because you
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Speaker 1: have control
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Speaker 1: and in your memory, and you're investing your memory with
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Speaker 1: things that you've learned subsequently. I. I would just say that,
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Speaker 1: Um Well, um, I I The reason I know a
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Speaker 1: bit about my childhood is because my mother kept the diary.
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Speaker 1: She went to ConEd College in Lahore and there was
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Speaker 1: a nun who told her to keep a diary. And
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Speaker 1: on page 17 of the diary, I appear and in that,
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Speaker 1: uh uh, she says,
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Speaker 1: This is a restless baby.
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Speaker 1: A year later, her diary is saying
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Speaker 1: he is a difficult child,
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Speaker 1: and then another year and a half later, she's saying
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Speaker 1: he's a troublemaker.
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Speaker 1: I'm talking about 1947.
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Speaker 1: Uh, we were in school in March, April or something
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Speaker 1: like that. Just moving on a bit from that, Uh,
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Speaker 1: because there are so many different, uh, key points in
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Speaker 1: your life. You had a successful corporate career, hugely successful
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Speaker 1: corporate career, you know,
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Speaker 1: Um, close to 30 years and then when many people
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Speaker 1: would say you were at the corporate pinnacle, you throw
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Speaker 1: it all the way and retire at a sprightly 50.
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Speaker 1: Why did you do that? You know, um, like many people,
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Speaker 1: I finished college. I got a job and a successful career,
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Speaker 1: uh, climb corporate ladders
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Speaker 1: and, uh,
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Speaker 1: got married, had Children. And, uh, But what happens to
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Speaker 1: many people in their forties is what happened partly to
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Speaker 1: me
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Speaker 1: that II I was most of my life. I was
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Speaker 1: with a consumer product company all my life, actually, uh,
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Speaker 1: Procter and Gamble before that Richardson Hindustan, which was acquired
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Speaker 1: by Procter and Gamble
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Speaker 1: here I was at the corporate headquarters when this realisation
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Speaker 1: hit me. I was managing director worldwide for global strategic
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Speaker 1: planning for the company, and we had good brands Wicks,
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Speaker 1: oil of Olay and lots and lots of, you know,
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Speaker 1: Gillette blades and
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Speaker 1: canteen shampoo and other health, beauty, aids and cleansing. And anyway,
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Speaker 1: my point is
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Speaker 1: that the trigger of The question came because I was
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Speaker 1: driving to work one morning and on the radio N
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Speaker 1: PR radio.
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Speaker 1: I heard that the reforms in India were in trouble
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Speaker 1: and, you know, for me reforms in India. I don't
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Speaker 1: know whether you read my book India unbound, but in
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Speaker 1: that book I describe how India got its freedom. Not
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Speaker 1: in 1947
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Speaker 1: but in 1991 1947 we got political freedom,
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Speaker 1: but we didn't have economic freedom.
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Speaker 1: Uh, until 1991.
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Speaker 1: And also, I mean, we were a very under performing
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Speaker 1: economy and during the licence ride. And I must tell
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Speaker 1: you a scathing episode. I mean, I lived through that period.
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Speaker 1: Most young people today have no clue what it must
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Speaker 1: have been like. But,
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Speaker 1: uh, so much so that I, from a Socialist, I
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Speaker 1: became a liber libertarian, a liberal classical liberal as a
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Speaker 1: result of that. Anyway, my point is the reforms were
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Speaker 1: in trouble. According to the radio, Nasima Rao was under
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Speaker 1: attack from the left wing of the Congress Party. Plus,
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Speaker 1: the leftists were shouting that India had sold out to
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Speaker 1: the multinationals. This is another East India company invasion
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Speaker 1: and and and so on. And I got very disturbed
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Speaker 1: because I thought that this was our India's one chance
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Speaker 1: of the ordinary Indian to rise.
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Speaker 1: And so I since I knew, uh, Doctor Manmohan Singh,
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Speaker 1: I shot off a telegram to him also, I said,
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Speaker 1: I'm very concerned. And why aren't you selling the reforms
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Speaker 1: to the people we were reforming by stout at night
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Speaker 1: to get to get to get to, You know, nobody
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Speaker 1: was explaining why we were doing these reforms, why we
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Speaker 1: were opening the economy to competition and so on. Anyway, Uh,
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Speaker 1: I think I had to go to a meeting afterwards
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Speaker 1: for a global meeting of managers who were on the
00:06:32
Speaker 1: Pampers diapers business.
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Speaker 1: And suddenly I asked myself, What am I doing discussing
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Speaker 1: baby diapers in Belgium
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Speaker 1: when there's a fire burning at home
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Speaker 1: and so I I mean, I kind of had a
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Speaker 1: midlife crisis. That's what my wife called it. And I
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Speaker 1: didn't have to go to the doctor or anything, but I, uh,
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Speaker 1: I, I decided, uh, to quit.
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Speaker 1: Over the years you've morphed into, you know, one of
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Speaker 1: India's leading public intellectuals, a much sought after speaker and
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Speaker 1: a best selling author. What inspires you to write the
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Speaker 1: way you do, you know, on the diverse subjects that
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Speaker 1: you cover, not just in your books but also in
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Speaker 1: newspaper columns and in your speaking individuals. Well, I, I
00:07:24
Speaker 1: normally write
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Speaker 1: on a subject that I want to know something about
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Speaker 1: something that's been troubling me. I don't know enough. I
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Speaker 1: write
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Speaker 1: like the first book I wrote. First nonfiction book was
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Speaker 1: called Indian Bound and you know, any sort of And
00:07:46
Speaker 1: I mean any Indian who's well off
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Speaker 1: looks around and sees poverty
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Speaker 1: and asks this question. How can a poor country become
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Speaker 1: rich
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Speaker 1: and uh, especially when you've been abroad and you've seen
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Speaker 1: that people have become, they've become middle class nations,
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Speaker 1: And, uh so that was the beginning of the Indian bound,
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Speaker 1: uh, the motivation for Indian bound. Then there was a
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Speaker 1: hell of a lot of corruption. I mean, by the way,
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Speaker 1: Indian Bound was the first book that predicted the rise
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Speaker 1: of India
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Speaker 1: based on the reforms that were done in 1991 and, uh,
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Speaker 1: and India obliged by rising.
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Speaker 1: Uh, but amidst the rising prosperity, growing prosperity, there was
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Speaker 1: a lot of
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Speaker 1: corruption
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Speaker 1: and I
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Speaker 1: I said I must find out what this business of
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Speaker 1: corruption is all about.
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Speaker 1: And so I wrote the book called The Difficulty of
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Speaker 1: Being Good,
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Speaker 1: and it was basically about Dharma.
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Speaker 1: We are doing right and wrong. So I knew that
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Speaker 1: the Ma Bharat was obsessed with this idea of Dharma.
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Speaker 1: So that's when I went to read the Mahara and
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Speaker 1: and wrote the difficulty. So
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Speaker 1: it is. And the third book, for example, was
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Speaker 1: on a comma
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Speaker 1: desire. So I've been troubled by desire all my life.
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Speaker 1: And so I wanted to know what to do about desire.
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Speaker 1: And and so I think it's these Every book is
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Speaker 1: a is a lesson is a form of self education,
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Speaker 1: self cultivation
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Speaker 1: and to try and solve the problems for myself. Some
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Speaker 1: people do it by taking a seminar in a college.
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Speaker 1: I do it by, uh uh researching and writing books.
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Speaker 1: And so I've just I discovered that, um, I had
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Speaker 1: written without realising it a book on Earth, a Dharma
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Speaker 1: and karma. Now this is in the Sanskrit. It's the
00:10:06
Speaker 1: three Varga, which is part of the Puru Sha,
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Speaker 1: for which are the goals of life
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Speaker 1: and I had written about the three goals of life
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Speaker 1: and and and and so now the last one that
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Speaker 1: I've just brought out is on moksha and which is
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Speaker 1: called another sort of freedom. That's a fascinating because in fact,
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Speaker 1: the You, um, brought the answers to 23 of my
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Speaker 1: questions together in one crisp one. I was going to
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Speaker 1: ask you about this, and I found I found this quotation,
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Speaker 1: you know, really powerful,
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Speaker 1: and I just want you to react to it. It's
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Speaker 1: what you've written. When individuals blunder, it is unfortunate, and
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Speaker 1: their families go down when rulers fail. It's a national
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Speaker 1: tragedy from India unbound. That's such a powerful statement. And, um,
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Speaker 1: very quickly. What inspired that? Well, the licenced Raj
00:11:01
Speaker 1: Most people don't realise. I think Nero was a great man,
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Speaker 1: but he had one flaw,
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Speaker 1: and that was in the economic sphere. And I can't
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Speaker 1: really even blame him because you have to blame Indira
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Speaker 1: Gandhi more than Nehru because during Nehru's time it was
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Speaker 1: a socialist age. Everybody was a socialist. But by the
00:11:25
Speaker 1: time Indira Gandhi became prime minister, we had found the
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Speaker 1: world had discovered another way for a poor country to
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Speaker 1: become rich. It was shown by Japan after the war,
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Speaker 1: then followed by Taiwan and Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore. These
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Speaker 1: became Asian tigers and they became middle class societies within
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Speaker 1: a generation and a half.
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Speaker 1: And whereas we sacrifice two generations to this madness called
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Speaker 1: licence Raj, you know the command economy, Mr. Das. Everybody
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Speaker 1: today talks about brand India, you know, and how powerful
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Speaker 1: it's become, how the world respects us, how we are
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Speaker 1: taken seriously. But what is the counter to that? What
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Speaker 1: do you think we need to look out for as possible? Uh,
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Speaker 1: slip ups stripping stones as we go forward.
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Speaker 1: Frankly, we have done well from if you take from
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Speaker 1: 1991
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Speaker 1: to 2000 and say, 30 years
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Speaker 1: that we have been we we we are a 30
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Speaker 1: year old country. We're not a 75 year old country
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Speaker 1: because we got our real freedom only in 91.
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Speaker 1: And so since 91 we've grown at almost 7%
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Speaker 1: a year. Not for a democracy that's very good, and
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Speaker 1: so we should be happy
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Speaker 1: about it.
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Speaker 1: But the reality is that we haven't created the jobs
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Speaker 1: that a 7% growth should have created. And why have
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Speaker 1: we not created the jobs? Because we have not experienced
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Speaker 1: an industrial revolution, which is how every other country did it,
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Speaker 1: meaning that we did very well in agriculture and we
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Speaker 1: created a green revolution. So we created food surplus, which
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Speaker 1: is necessary. Then
00:13:28
Speaker 1: we jumped. We skipped from a green revolution to an
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Speaker 1: IT revolution, a digital revolution.
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Speaker 1: And that's great. I mean, we really it's an outstanding achievement.
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Speaker 1: But how do you take 45% of your population that
00:13:47
Speaker 1: is on the farms and which is excess? We could
00:13:50
Speaker 1: do with half those people on the farm and still
00:13:54
Speaker 1: have a have a equal level of productivity. How do
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Speaker 1: you take these people to higher productivity jobs
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Speaker 1: so they can have a better income and a better future?
00:14:05
Speaker 1: The only answer is manufacturing
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Speaker 1: and every these Asian tigers. China is the latest example
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Speaker 1: to follow that path that Japan started, which is essentially
00:14:19
Speaker 1: Manu export of labour intensive manufactured goods. Today, manufactured goods
00:14:26
Speaker 1: manufacturing accounts for 16% of GDP. It should be double
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Speaker 1: our exports of goods. Manufactured goods is only 1.7% of
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Speaker 1: world exports.
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Speaker 1: It should be at least double of that if and
00:14:42
Speaker 1: for that, you have to create an industrial revolution, and
00:14:47
Speaker 1: we haven't done it. So you asked me the question.
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Speaker 1: How will we do it? The answer is this one
00:14:55
Speaker 1: now and now we are actually better placed than ever
00:14:58
Speaker 1: to do it.
00:15:00
Speaker 1: Uh, we should have done it earlier. Now we are
00:15:02
Speaker 1: aware of it make in India, et cetera. But it
00:15:05
Speaker 1: should always have been make in India for the world.
00:15:08
Speaker 1: But we still have Tariffs are too high if we
00:15:11
Speaker 1: have to join the world. These, uh, listen what they
00:15:16
Speaker 1: call supply chains and global supply chains. And so whoever
00:15:22
Speaker 1: wins the 2024 election,
00:15:26
Speaker 1: they have to go back and do the reforms which
00:15:30
Speaker 1: M Manon Singh should have done in the UP. A
00:15:33
Speaker 1: one on two.
00:15:34
Speaker 1: And Modi tried in his first term, which was the
00:15:39
Speaker 1: land acquisition bill, the labour laws and the farm laws.
00:15:44
Speaker 1: And there are more. But these are the big ones.
00:15:47
Speaker 1: And the opposition did not allow him to do it.
00:15:50
Speaker 1: But I think it's not opposition's fault. Only the oppo
00:15:53
Speaker 1: opposition fault opposition opposes whatever you do. Unfortunately, the answer
00:16:00
Speaker 1: is that you have to sell the reforms. What I
00:16:03
Speaker 1: told Dr Manmohan Singh,
00:16:06
Speaker 1: you know, he said, You come back and you sell
00:16:08
Speaker 1: the reforms. I mean, the finance minister's job. Margaret Thatcher
00:16:13
Speaker 1: used to say that I spend 20% of my time
00:16:17
Speaker 1: doing the reforms 80% of the time selling reforms. You know,
00:16:22
Speaker 1: it's not easy, Uh, because it's not clear to ordinary people,
00:16:27
Speaker 1: uh, and and how does the market work? How is
00:16:31
Speaker 1: it that all of us we try to maximise our profit?
00:16:36
Speaker 1: And in the end, that lifts the whole society up? Uh,
00:16:41
Speaker 1: it's He called it an invisible hand. He called it
00:16:45
Speaker 1: now because it's invisible. The voter also doesn't see it.
00:16:50
Speaker 1: I'll say, Well, we should get investment. We create with investment.
00:16:55
Speaker 1: We'll create jobs. We'll produce goods and there'll be taxes paid,
00:17:01
Speaker 1: and I'll try to explain it. And there people will
00:17:04
Speaker 1: say you won't even be around after five years to
00:17:08
Speaker 1: see that. So it's very difficult, very, very difficult and frankly,
00:17:13
Speaker 1: but I mean Deng Xiaoping in China, he did that.
00:17:18
Speaker 1: He he sold. He didn't have to sell them. That
00:17:21
Speaker 1: was an authoritarian society. But he still had to tell
00:17:25
Speaker 1: people why he was turning away from Mao's China
00:17:29
Speaker 1: to this. Yes. So, yes. The answer to your question
00:17:34
Speaker 1: is we can do it. We have to do the reforms.
00:17:38
Speaker 1: And
00:17:40
Speaker 1: we have to get out of this freebie rarity culture.
00:17:44
Speaker 1: And And we have to sell the reform. Like, in fact,
00:17:47
Speaker 1: I told Mr Modi once. And what and what did
00:17:50
Speaker 1: he say to that? How do we respond? No, he
00:17:53
Speaker 1: was positive. He says mode one pager, the DJ. He
00:17:57
Speaker 1: used the word one pager, and, uh and and And
00:18:01
Speaker 1: I think that, um I don't think he did it, though.
00:18:05
Speaker 1: I mean, I sent him that one pager, but
00:18:08
Speaker 1: it didn't quite, Uh, it didn't quite grab his imagination,
00:18:13
Speaker 1: but frankly, that's the thing we have to do. And
00:18:16
Speaker 1: therefore people believe that the rich get richer through reforms.
00:18:21
Speaker 1: The poor get poorer through reforms, and people don't really
00:18:26
Speaker 1: respect the the business.
00:18:30
Speaker 1: In fact, they can't tell the difference between being pro
00:18:32
Speaker 1: market and pro business. And so and you know, after
00:18:38
Speaker 1: I've been I've lived to I've won. I've had two careers.
00:18:41
Speaker 1: I want two hats through life,
00:18:44
Speaker 1: and,
00:18:45
Speaker 1: uh, the fact of the matter is that I believe
00:18:50
Speaker 1: I've been a businessman and a writer, and I believe
00:18:55
Speaker 1: a businessman is a better human being than a writer.
00:18:58
Speaker 1: Now you'll wonder why. How do you say? Because the
00:19:04
Speaker 1: businessman knows interdependence immediately and understands that he needs other
00:19:11
Speaker 1: people for his success.
00:19:13
Speaker 1: He needs customers to buy his products. He needs suppliers
00:19:19
Speaker 1: to help him make his product. And if he doesn't
00:19:23
Speaker 1: do a good job, I mean, if it doesn't do,
00:19:26
Speaker 1: if he doesn't satisfy his customers, they won't come back
00:19:30
Speaker 1: and repeat, Purchase, uh, the purchase again. And and and
00:19:35
Speaker 1: suppliers Unless he's fair to suppliers, he'll get a bad
00:19:40
Speaker 1: component for his own product product,
00:19:43
Speaker 1: and he needs employees.
00:19:46
Speaker 1: He can't do everything himself or she can't do everything herself.
00:19:50
Speaker 1: And so he has to respect his employees. And so
00:19:55
Speaker 1: he understands that he
00:19:59
Speaker 1: dealing with people that, as we say, it has to
00:20:02
Speaker 1: be a win win for a transaction to go through.
00:20:06
Speaker 1: Winning a buyer and a seller come together,
00:20:10
Speaker 1: and when they agree on a price, then the transaction
00:20:14
Speaker 1: goes through. That requires a spirit of abundance of compromise
00:20:21
Speaker 1: every day,
00:20:23
Speaker 1: and and that's why? Actually businessmen get a bad name,
00:20:27
Speaker 1: but actually they're much better than artists and all these
00:20:30
Speaker 1: people who smoke around, I can tell you that. And
00:20:33
Speaker 1: I really believe that Bombay people are better than Delhi
00:20:35
Speaker 1: people because Bombay is a city of commerce and business.
00:20:39
Speaker 1: You know, I hope I hope you realise you're saying
00:20:43
Speaker 1: wonderfully controversial things and it would be good, you know,
00:20:46
Speaker 1: to get to react to you. And this goes you
00:20:49
Speaker 1: know why Bombay people are nicer because
00:20:52
Speaker 1: it's a city of commerce. One is this interdependence. And secondly,
00:20:58
Speaker 1: if I don't like my boss in my company, I'm
00:21:03
Speaker 1: not stuck with him for life. I can quit if
00:21:07
Speaker 1: I want to be CEO of my company and they
00:21:09
Speaker 1: don't make me CEO. There are 200 CEOs of 200
00:21:14
Speaker 1: companies that I can choose from.
00:21:18
Speaker 1: Whereas in Delhi there's always been one CEO, the emperor.
00:21:23
Speaker 1: It used to be the emperor. After that, it was
00:21:27
Speaker 1: the king. Then it was the prime minister.
00:21:31
Speaker 1: And there's one Finance Secretary
00:21:34
Speaker 1: and everybody does G hazo that culture of G hazo
00:21:39
Speaker 1: and and here you just walk out of the company.
00:21:42
Speaker 1: If you don't if you if they don't treat you well,
00:21:45
Speaker 1: so it's much more dignity. The best thing that's happened
00:21:49
Speaker 1: to Delhi is gorga finally Delhi to see another, more
00:21:55
Speaker 1: cultured way of behaving. They look down on gorga, but
00:21:58
Speaker 1: they don't understand.
00:22:00
Speaker 1: Uh, can you share some of the key lessons from
00:22:03
Speaker 1: your books that can be applied to the world of
00:22:05
Speaker 1: marketing and communication? Essentially, how, um, to to use elements
00:22:11
Speaker 1: from your books
00:22:12
Speaker 1: to and apply some of them to the present day
00:22:15
Speaker 1: world of marketing and communication? Is that too difficult a
00:22:18
Speaker 1: task to ask you to do?
00:22:21
Speaker 1: Well, you know, people often ask me
00:22:25
Speaker 1: that
00:22:26
Speaker 1: you went to Harvard
00:22:29
Speaker 1: as an undergraduate and you studied philosophy, and later you
00:22:35
Speaker 1: started working and you went I to Harvard Business School.
00:22:40
Speaker 1: I just went over two summers and did an executive
00:22:43
Speaker 1: MB a programme wasn't a proper MB a and they
00:22:47
Speaker 1: asked me Well, how did philosophy help you? And I
00:22:50
Speaker 1: try and tell them that that business is more to
00:22:55
Speaker 1: do
00:22:57
Speaker 1: with understanding human beings with, uh, it's got more to do, um,
00:23:04
Speaker 1: with attitudes
00:23:06
Speaker 1: that you bring to your work and none of these
00:23:09
Speaker 1: require an MBA. I would encourage companies to hire people,
00:23:15
Speaker 1: hire people who are non MB A and who have
00:23:19
Speaker 1: a broader background in literature, history, whatever economics.
00:23:26
Speaker 1: And also I would encourage companies to hire people with
00:23:31
Speaker 1: true attitude by attitude. I mean, take rather than purely skills.
00:23:37
Speaker 1: Determination is one attitude. Somebody who is determined,
00:23:43
Speaker 1: uh, that I think gets you further skills everybody can
00:23:47
Speaker 1: pick up.
00:23:49
Speaker 1: But attitude you can't change. Another attitude would be humility.
00:23:55
Speaker 1: But let me give you my my definition of humility.
00:23:59
Speaker 1: My definition of humility is
00:24:03
Speaker 1: to take your work seriously, but not yourself seriously. It's
00:24:08
Speaker 1: the attitude of self forgetting. It's the attitude
00:24:12
Speaker 1: of getting so absorbed in your work that you're not thinking.
00:24:18
Speaker 1: When am I going to get promoted in this company?
00:24:22
Speaker 1: You know? So that's to me, humility and so on.
00:24:27
Speaker 1: So the trouble, the mistake we make as companies is
00:24:31
Speaker 1: to hire we In the interview, we are asking a
00:24:35
Speaker 1: guy who's top of the class and the I am
00:24:38
Speaker 1: bad what he knows
00:24:40
Speaker 1: well, of course, he knows everything. Find out his attitude.
00:24:43
Speaker 1: That's what's gonna decide whether he's a great leader or not. Yeah,
00:24:48
Speaker 1: Mister Das what would you say are the hallmarks of
00:24:50
Speaker 1: a great leader? Well, I, I feel that, Um, probably
00:24:55
Speaker 1: I've answered that question because, uh, it's it's it's the attitude,
00:25:01
Speaker 1: I think, is what differentiates the the. The difficulty with
00:25:05
Speaker 1: attitude is
00:25:06
Speaker 1: that it's set very early in life. You can't, it's
00:25:09
Speaker 1: you can't change attitudes of people and you can give
00:25:12
Speaker 1: them skills, et cetera. So attitude, I would say an attitude.
00:25:15
Speaker 1: I subdivided it between things like determination. Another was this
00:25:21
Speaker 1: quality of self forgetting
00:25:24
Speaker 1: that, you know, you're not always saying how great I
00:25:27
Speaker 1: am a hum, the ego is is diminished. And that's
00:25:33
Speaker 1: the freedom I was talking about. And the I also
00:25:38
Speaker 1: said that they live lightly.
00:25:41
Speaker 1: Uh, they don't carry the burden of the world on
00:25:45
Speaker 1: their shoulders, great leaders and and I would say, that's
00:25:49
Speaker 1: really and you know
00:25:52
Speaker 1: that you are
00:25:55
Speaker 1: in the zone, whether as an athlete like Tendulkar or
00:26:00
Speaker 1: whether you're a CEO, whatever
00:26:03
Speaker 1: you're in the zone
00:26:05
Speaker 1: when you don't exist yourself
00:26:09
Speaker 1: that the bat is hitting the ball before we get
00:26:12
Speaker 1: to deep this question quickly. Mr Das, what's your take
00:26:16
Speaker 1: on a I and the rapidity with which it is evolving. Well,
00:26:20
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I. I haven't read too much
00:26:24
Speaker 1: about a I but I've done chat GP T a
00:26:27
Speaker 1: few times and I I it's amazing. And and, uh,
00:26:32
Speaker 1: I just worry about one thing with this technology now,
00:26:37
Speaker 1: whether it's robotics, a I and so on
00:26:41
Speaker 1: that if it goes the way it's going, there won't
00:26:45
Speaker 1: be jobs left. I worry about that. Uh, and we
00:26:50
Speaker 1: were talking earlier about creating industrial revolution
00:26:54
Speaker 1: and and, you know, those jobs disappear. There won't be
00:26:57
Speaker 1: an opportunity for our kids
00:26:59
Speaker 1: to really have a middle class life. So I worry.
00:27:03
Speaker 1: I worry there, but, uh, I don't know enough about it.
00:27:08
Speaker 1: Mister Das. It's been wonderful talking to you before we close. Um,
00:27:12
Speaker 1: we have a final question that deep. The city will
00:27:15
Speaker 1: ask you deep the city over to you.
00:27:22
Speaker 2: Thank you, nit. And, uh, Mr Das, what a wonderful conversation.
00:27:27
Speaker 2: I think we can title this whole episode about life
00:27:30
Speaker 2: reimagining life and so much deep things that you know
00:27:33
Speaker 2: that you talked about. Um I still believe and I'm
00:27:37
Speaker 2: gonna
00:27:38
Speaker 2: counter argue you said business or writers. I think writers
00:27:41
Speaker 2: are writers because they can influence change and just listening
00:27:46
Speaker 2: to your conversation and the day that I had this morning, uh,
00:27:49
Speaker 2: you've given me a fresh way of thinking at and
00:27:52
Speaker 2: looking at life and things and
00:27:54
Speaker 2: careers and many other things. So thank you so so much.
00:27:57
Speaker 2: I'm gonna ask you a question. Belonging to the industry
00:28:00
Speaker 2: of communicators and the publishing business has changed. And through
00:28:05
Speaker 2: your journey of three books, how do you think? What's
00:28:07
Speaker 2: the role? Public public relations and communication
00:28:11
Speaker 2: is playing in the world of publishing authors. Uh, how
00:28:16
Speaker 2: do you see that
00:28:17
Speaker 1: contribution? So my, uh, it's a work in progress. Well,
00:28:21
Speaker 1: one obvious way is actually the democracy that has brought
00:28:26
Speaker 1: about the Internet has brought about before. We were all
00:28:31
Speaker 1: dependent on a very hierarchical structures and
00:28:36
Speaker 1: now a start up. And we become very powerful very quickly.
00:28:43
Speaker 1: And so, um, it's it's a world for the many,
00:28:49
Speaker 1: and I in I mean, it's it's it's wonderful, actually,
00:28:52
Speaker 1: I remember in in when I was living in America,
00:28:57
Speaker 1: Um, the most powerful czar was, um, CBS CBS, and
00:29:05
Speaker 1: Walter Cronkite on CBS was if he said something, Boy
00:29:10
Speaker 1: America believed it the next day
00:29:13
Speaker 1: Well, now, there are 100 Walter Cronkites out there.
00:29:18
Speaker 1: So anyone with a blog, anyone who's good, will Ghana
00:29:23
Speaker 1: people will follow. And, uh, so that to me, it's
00:29:28
Speaker 1: the democracy,
00:29:30
Speaker 1: the opening to everybody. I mean, I was lucky to
00:29:35
Speaker 1: get to Harvard. Now, you don't have to go to Harvard.
00:29:38
Speaker 1: All the lectures of Harvard are there on online. He
00:29:42
Speaker 1: can He doesn't have to go. He just has to
00:29:45
Speaker 1: have the the spirit to listen and to learn.
00:29:51
Speaker 1: And, uh, so that's the wonderful thing about this period.
00:29:54
Speaker 2: Has have you done, uh, through your books when you've
00:29:57
Speaker 2: launched them? Have you done things differently from the first
00:30:00
Speaker 2: book launch, uh, to now?
00:30:02
Speaker 1: Well, there are a lot more podcasts now, You see,
00:30:07
Speaker 1: before they were when the first books came out, there
00:30:11
Speaker 1: were no podcast. And, uh, so we are experiencing one
00:30:15
Speaker 1: difference right today. Um,
00:30:19
Speaker 1: then a lot of digital channels, Uh, you know, uh,
00:30:25
Speaker 1: today I went earlier today, I went to speak. And
00:30:29
Speaker 1: what I thought was, uh, India today, uh, India, today's
00:30:34
Speaker 1: TV channel.
00:30:36
Speaker 1: But no, they told me this is not the TV Channel.
00:30:39
Speaker 1: This is the digital. They have 25 digital channels of
00:30:45
Speaker 1: ads stuck so people have in their phones
00:30:51
Speaker 1: in their pockets
00:30:52
Speaker 1: the kind of knowledge and entertainment that a king didn't
00:30:57
Speaker 1: have 100 years ago.
00:31:00
Speaker 2: Thank you On that note, Mister Das Great. Great discussion
00:31:03
Speaker 2: and back to you, Neris to close it.
00:31:06
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Mr. Das Really enjoyed talking to
00:31:09
Speaker 1: you and hope to meet you in person soon.