The OG Connector ft. Komal Lath

[00:00:00] Ladies, gentlemen and others, today on the podcast I have someone who I consider a dear friend but we didn't start out like that. We started with a blogger agency relationship and when I met the founder of this PR firm, I was just very very happy because she is

[00:00:14] one of the most warm people you'll meet in this space. Along with me here today, I have the founder, very dynamic entrepreneur Komal Lath who is the founder and CEO of

[00:00:24] Tute PR. Welcome to the pod. Thank you, Aanam. This is such a fun set up. Thank you. And great to see from content creator on the gram to content creator across different mediums. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to have you on board because you know,

[00:00:40] I get called OG content creator very often which is of course a compliment and I think your OG PR person in this space. You've been around for over 12 years as an entrepreneur

[00:00:51] as the founder of Tute. Yeah, it's going to be 13 now and the same birthday month is yours and many many decades before that so 21 years now in this space. Wow. How has this journey

[00:01:03] been and what made you get into PR? A lot of rejections. So it was a simple summer job which you're looking for when you're like 17 and you write to a bunch of places. So I

[00:01:16] written to event companies and many advertising agencies, PR agencies, whatever was in the 5km radius that was the real real clincher. And then I think a lot of event agencies just rejected it.

[00:01:28] They had their own things. You've got to look in a particular way. You've got to talk in a particular way. And then there was this lovely PR agency which said come on board

[00:01:36] but started as a two month internship became a two and a half year stint with some fantastic people and it's no looking back from there. So 20 years ago was PR the same as it was today or

[00:01:48] rather what did you think of PR at that time? I want to know because 20 years ago it's evolved so much. Yeah, it's also difficult yet explaining to your parents what do you do right because you're

[00:01:58] not writing for a paper or a medium. You're also not on the brand side. So it's a bit of a misnomer to explain it to them but that's the fun part. No PR has evolved so much like

[00:02:09] all our professions have right. What we see in the fax days don't judge me by the age now. So from those days to seeing everything going the blackberry phase and now completely everything

[00:02:21] WhatsApp to WhatsApp notes, voice notes are saving the day. So it's been a journey of where it is but I think back in the day it was good old traditional. You had your print, you had your

[00:02:31] TV, a bit of the internet it was just catching up. Now it's completely topsy turvy into an entire new business each one having their influence of specialist agencies. There are analytic agencies and you name it there's a whole plethora of different things happening.

[00:02:47] Around 15 years ago would also be a good time stamp to put around when Samantha Jones, Kim Katral put PR on like the mainstream map with Sex in the City right because she made the

[00:03:00] job look really cool and I'm going to say that she made the job look a lot easier than I'm sure it is. It is and thanks to her at least the word PR professional got like a global stamp

[00:03:11] you're absolutely right onto that content creation right we almost are at the same time when we started our companies together and you were just fledging in to understand how do you make that happen right? We've seen that evolution. When I looked at shows like Emily in Paris

[00:03:25] right now I had an extreme urge to write to them if only client approvals were so easy. If only everybody just thought an idea this snap and good whatsapp and then you have the

[00:03:36] best of luxury brands saying yes to you I'd love to meet such clients if you do we'd share it. And on the flip side of that how quickly she goes viral and her followers go up hello as a creator

[00:03:46] I was like what is she doing? What app is she on? Because it's definitely not any of the ones I'm on. You bet so it's it's good to have the professions out there but the reality is a bit

[00:03:58] different than what we see like always is but it's been a lovely journey. Has there been like is there one significant change that comes to mind that happened then and doesn't happen now or vice

[00:04:09] versa? I think loyalty it was very very inherent to us whether it's client side or whether you're working for a company like your colleagues I think the loyalty factor the transparency factor

[00:04:21] if we didn't like something we'd voice it and it would get close there there was no quiet quitting there was no built up there was nobody doing those back deals and side deals life was good

[00:04:31] we enjoyed our work we worked all very very hard we were done and we would party later without any qualms I think that sort of a thing is very different now you you have to engineer a lot

[00:04:43] of things you have you're walking on eggshells every day and I'm sure you face it too right you have a team now and um it's very very different. Could it also be because there are

[00:04:52] so many more agencies and so you're not just competing for clients you're also competing for the best resources and talent? I've made my peace with it so there was a time when resources

[00:05:02] would leave us and join other companies which they yet to and I'd be like I train them I took care of them I took care of their education in many places families and now they don't seem

[00:05:11] to do. I think I needed to make that switch to me that they are wise enough to make their choices and you got to do best what you got to do and send out good talent in the world

[00:05:20] so be the best training school and that's what we are now. I don't know if enough people know this about you you are one of the most cheerleader-ish people ever you have never missed a moment where

[00:05:31] you haven't reached out to me today I know you for like let's say 10 years 11 years but even when I just met you like a decade ago I want to say we should put an exact like I'm sure

[00:05:42] that that's a quality that also helps you with work right like what would you say is something that APR entrepreneur today absolutely needs to be able to do. Very interesting question Anam we should respond and not react I've been in a phase where we all have reacted with

[00:05:57] immediate response like you know tuck tuck this happen do this and then you just ponder back and say now when I start responding instead of reacting I'm far more measured I think a

[00:06:07] more piece of things and when you are if your minds at that zen stage I think everything good happens because you're channeling the right energy and then it takes this course because if

[00:06:16] it is not supposed to happen like Brad Pitt says it's not going to happen why worry about that think about the possibilities of the happening and then go with that you're just going to be

[00:06:29] less disappointed so true is there something that you shouldn't do in the PR space today like the opposite of what I asked you earlier basically I think we transparent with people you work with whether it's the economy of creators or the media or your clients

[00:06:45] you speak one lie it will build up and today honestly everything is out on social media it's a small world just be transparent and be absolutely at it what you want to do I think it's just

[00:06:56] there and be timely I think it's a universal rule clause loops like we say right like if it's a no no is a response yes is a response silence is not yeah so I think what my pet peeve if you're

[00:07:09] asking me is the silence like close loops yeah give me an example of a really like shitty breaking of trust in the PR entrepreneur with either brand side or media influencer side because

[00:07:22] you guys do work with a lot of influencers but you work with more media no we work with both depending on what the mandates are but yeah we've seen the evolution of different channels

[00:07:32] and mediums and I'm a big believer you were one of the first ones to start the whole influencer program I think 10 years back when it was very very nascent so it's been a very very

[00:07:42] interesting journey to see how it's evolved and what the possibilities of it being but yeah I mean we've all got stories right so I think couple of interesting ones was that in trust when you

[00:07:52] go pitch in with a partner agency I remember asking this agency for some assistance saying hey you know what I don't have a deli office but we're looking into pitching with this client

[00:08:01] what's the intel like what's the on-ground thing like do people come for this kind of an event is it wise to commit to this so what's the client I can totally help you and I gave it got the intel

[00:08:12] only to know they landed the project they went behind my back and pitched the same brand and got it I'm like okay that's a trust too much but lesson learned that you keep your

[00:08:23] relationships absolutely one-on-one no matter what can you say no easy does that come easily to it's taken a while it's okay your mental health also matters but don't use that as a victim card to be

[00:08:38] able to you know I'm not coming to work today because this happened my mental health is not okay one day two day month two month and then you start taking advantage so you have these

[00:08:49] little anomalies that keep happening I think I'm just navigating my way learning every day on how to do it but taking on only that much that I want to handle so for us growth is

[00:08:59] not handling 300 brands is handling 30 brands beautifully will be all sleep and have great holiday photos I think that's a celebration more than hey this is my turnover and this is of course that

[00:09:11] matters but peace of mind what's the point earning when you can't spend it and be at peace and go and meet your mom and hug her what are you going to do that money for

[00:09:21] when there is a brand that's looking out for an agency to manage their rep there are multiple agencies that are called in for pitches you come in with tentative plans you come

[00:09:31] in with numbers you come in with suggestions and I think from the way I've seen it agencies lay out a plan but don't get into details obviously because they could just hire someone else and

[00:09:40] have someone else do your ideas but in situations like that where you need to assert yourself and having said that not lay everything out on the table I'm sure there are clients who want to dig in to more and understand more some for inquisitiveness and just general curiosity

[00:10:00] while for others it may be more strategic and I know because again I know you beyond you know just the workspace we've had meals together or we've hung out together so I just want to kind of

[00:10:11] set some context as to how I know already a decade right you're not very political in the way you network which works against people like you and I am gonna say it for us absolutely we're not good

[00:10:24] at that we're good at networking I feel like we can network if the energy is organic there I feel like we can people like us can network if there is a genuine vibe connection something to talk about

[00:10:36] but you know when somebody comes in says this person is so and so try and make a connection that I'm like shit you shouldn't have said that to me because now in my head I have my

[00:10:43] walls up for me I have the privilege of shutting down when I can but if you're pitching to someone like that and you're the founder of this agency how do you maneuver a situation where what you know

[00:10:58] is good for business versus in your head you're like yeah that happens so often no no you're right you know it's a lot of energy exchange sometimes you enter a room and you get hostile

[00:11:09] energy have you ever felt that you can't pinpoint it but it's there and you know the person or that team is not comfortable with you so I don't have that privilege yet of putting my

[00:11:20] guard up and saying okay no but that's because your business model is different from mine yeah you're still very high up there when people know you in your agency what I mean is your business

[00:11:29] structure yeah it requires you to people I have to get the work or for that matter it's a great business or a brand but maybe the people but people make it a brand right I think a lot gets

[00:11:40] sorted when you have a team talking for you because you know you have different energies mixing in but if we know that that person's not going to be the one that's really going to help

[00:11:50] you grow or your business grow it's okay to say no to it and that's fine because in the longer run toxic relationships are bigger killers of your mind businesses people quitting etc than three small happy businesses are so I think that's a conscious call one will take

[00:12:10] and it's very individual like you cannot say that this one this mold fits in the other people evolve we all evolve what we were to where we are now you know I remember I was a very different

[00:12:20] person 10 years back because when I was hungry ambitious did not care maybe on the emotional part that much as I did about the numbers but you transcend into different things and now I feel

[00:12:33] that if I blend my two pieces of advice and say don't worry you can scout all around when you feel we'll have a chat instead of just saying no it won't work for us I've just taken a different

[00:12:44] route of communicating the same thing trying to get more politically correct but no that's not our DNA have you ever had a situation where someone you were trying to work with gave you that

[00:12:54] hostile energy looked around the market and then came back you know the brands that have done we've discussed them but they've come back to you no they've come back a lot of them have come

[00:13:04] back and and in good faith like I'm not one of those who come back I'll be like hey I told you so this I told you so is just such a put-off you can't do that persons got their own learnings

[00:13:13] and journeys to go through you don't know what that person's journey is I remember you putting out stuff and social right when you said that don't judge a person because you don't know what's behind the camera that person could have had just an encounter before or something

[00:13:26] before so I'm taking the good sword in there and saying don't worry okay you need a piece of advice come to us but that's how it is okay so if you had to break down what a PR agency does for like

[00:13:40] the layman out there laywoman out there rather can you break it down for us just for someone who's not from the industry what does a PR agency do for a brand wow that's an interesting

[00:13:51] lots of questions rolled into one right okay so a simple one line answer will be we storytell or we make them fall in love with brands we represent but if I had to break it down what

[00:14:02] a day in the life for us is you'd be researching lot of reading lot of writing you'd be working on building the reputation for a brand using paid owned and owned mediums very simple so you got

[00:14:13] to have a pulse on pub culture you got to have a pulse on the sector that you will be working on and you have to fall in love with reading and writing that's it the rest all the skill can

[00:14:24] be teached the will has to be 100% and if you had a breakdown the three types of media you just mentioned paid owned and owned and earned can you define them for our listeners as well so we call

[00:14:35] them poems for memory sake right paid owned and media services just very simple to remember paid would be anything that you put a transaction to so it could mean paying a content creator

[00:14:46] paying a media putting out an ad advertorial those would fall under the paid mediums owned would be your own assets your own website the t-shirts that you wear to work maybe your own app your social

[00:14:58] media those would fall under the owned medium and earned is where you connered the comments the shares the editorials the organic gifting shoutouts all of those would fall under the earned medium so the combination of these three with earned being 80% would fall under the PR persons bracket

[00:15:19] when you do the owned part more you'd be part of the brand aspect and if you're in the paid aspect you'll be largely a media company or an influencer agency so that simplifies it for all so you

[00:15:31] deal with media you deal with influencers you deal with h&is across categories what's your favorite and least favorite category to deal with in terms of the kind of brands we deal with no in

[00:15:43] terms of the kind of media and relationship building right like our journalists easier to deal with than influencers i think my favorite medium is the owned medium where we do a lot of linkedin

[00:15:53] writing it's easy because you don't have to deal with the person you're dealing with a machine who listens to you so that's gonna be my top favorite found the trick answer out of this that's my most favorite category second most favorite i think uh content creators and media

[00:16:09] both would be no no i'm not accepting this answer you need to rank them one by one like i nobody gets on a time i don't know how to listen i'm not a favorite children right like if you had nibbles

[00:16:21] and you had one more would you be able to pick your categories of media not your children comal this is not an acceptable answer you are a i'm not on behalf of all content creators

[00:16:32] you have worked with not offended if journalists are easier to deal with you can say no i think it's a relationship game so i i'm comfortable if i have to personally deal i will pick up the phone

[00:16:42] with equal alacrity on both but if my teams have to deal with their own relationships to take but i think in today's time it's easier dealing with the media than content creators i don't remember any of the established ones like yourselves etc telling us that at any point

[00:17:00] it should be a conversation so to answer your question very politically correctly it would be the media to deal with is slightly easier or better it's easier that they want to do a story it's a yes

[00:17:14] and no in content creators we don't know what the outcome is and fairly so because that's how the medium is small dynamic but could it also be and this is just me analyzing what you're

[00:17:23] saying obviously coming from the point of view of a content creator could it also be because media you're not dealing with marketing slash sales you're dealing with editorial which means they have the discretion to say hey we'll integrate you somewhere

[00:17:37] hey it won't be an exclusive story about your client but we will include them whereas with content creators because a lot of it is short form which is i think what's the biggest star it's

[00:17:47] taking up a huge chunk of the kind of content that most creators are doing if it's a short form piece of content it basically becomes dedicated to your brand your client and then that takes away from the business model of a transaction in a potential monetizing opportunity

[00:18:02] like i have a lot of agencies that reach out to me and say hey can you do an exclusive story shout out and very transparently speaking i'll say no i'm going to see and try if i like the product

[00:18:13] and if i like it then i'm either going to do an exclusive or i'm going to feature it where i think it fits but i don't want to commit to anything before trying it out whereas with

[00:18:22] a magazine because they do have set number of pages to fill they have more and they're much more organized obviously as a medium right so i am very intrigued by the space of content creators

[00:18:34] because of course we started investing in it way back then you were one of the first movers into that space into that space i think they're more effective so if you ask me what's a more effective category today between media and content creators have to pick one today

[00:18:48] content creators you can perhaps see the numbers to know what the outcome of that content piece has been right so from an effective point of view it's audio visual as opposed to just print or just digital

[00:19:01] so it it may reach out to a larger number of people who are engaging with that content but there's no favorite i think it's a combination of all that actually works for a brand

[00:19:11] it's never a one-way street it's like doing a movie promotion right you have to do the trailer you have to do the post you have to do the pre can't say just because of the actor when he also

[00:19:21] has to do the promotion correct by that logic would you find it most easy to work with the digital part of a magazine because all of the data would be trackable because i know obviously over the last

[00:19:31] decade we've gone from magazines focusing as much on print as to also putting digital forwards so strongly and not just strongly i also feel like subscriptions have gone down print being kind

[00:19:42] of on a decline has been a massive conversation in media globally there are magazines that have gone from having monthly by monthly issues to becoming quarterly or becoming once every two months and i'm talking about mainstream magazines and publications right so do you then think that

[00:19:58] the direction of magazines focusing on their digital you know of verticals the easiest to work with in that sense because a they must be a cheaper than print for sure because the

[00:20:11] prestige factor of being in print is you know kind of taken away there and it's also trackable because then there's data to you know track where you're getting the traffic on your brand's website

[00:20:21] from and it's still got that new age buzz of absolutely so there's a lot of audio visual there one can play around with interesting formats podcast is one of the formats a lot of the publications are starting with and are dwelling into it doing their own videos events

[00:20:38] a lot of the publications today depend on events to be able to sort of bring out their brand message right so beauty awards to business awards all of those are by publications which hold a certain esteem so i think a combination of all this is what PR

[00:20:52] puts together which awards to gun for what are the reputation one should look at what linkedin pieces of writing that aren't needed to be able to create a certain image which content creators to partner with which journalists to have as advocates over a period of time

[00:21:08] because it's beautiful moving parts coming together as one and i think that's what the job role of a content creator plus PR plus teams get together you know so this year interestingly we launched something and um it's the first global copyright of putting together plans

[00:21:24] for integrated agencies to make sense of so many moving parts and we've been sharing this across with b schools and things in me one of the first ones to do it to only realize how well

[00:21:35] accepted a simple format or table can be so it's putting together those very little things that make life easy and that's going to be benefiting all not only content creators not only media

[00:21:46] but the world is moving to generative ai and a whole different space there with barred and chat gpt i'm sure you're hearing about this and using all of these tools so the world is moving towards very skilled people i think that's where the content creators

[00:22:05] that's where the PR teams lie that's where the game lies if you had to give a suggestion to any brand founders listening slash watching um and they wanted to get an agency on board to manage

[00:22:17] their reputation online offline with the media what is its refilters you would ask for them to have on the kind of to watch out for rather when their agency is pitching to them what does to do

[00:22:29] differently and what are the filters you would have them keep an eye out for great question especially because we've all built businesses from zero to ten and ten to hundred maybe number one

[00:22:42] it's a patient game if you had to throw money and get advertorials out you can do that but is that reputation that's for you to answer second um keep one focused goal don't have too many

[00:22:55] ands the minute you have ads it doesn't show clarity of thought on your end clarity of thought is when you're chasing one goal and that permeates into your organization and everybody that you work with

[00:23:06] so what's your soco single objective communication whatever whatever that is your key uh singular and third respect when you respect and hire experts don't tell them what to do you're engaged in an

[00:23:22] expert for expertise if you knew your job you wouldn't need us you knew your job you wouldn't need us especially i want to say that stands to for creators as well because so many times i will

[00:23:32] have brands who will come to me and say we want this this this and before we can say okay so let's do abc they'll be like we want this is this by doing this is this and i'm like

[00:23:44] yeah yeah and we fall into the trap you know sometimes like when my girls are asked to make these calls to uh we've done that to you so i know that or to uh you know for people saying this color

[00:23:54] of the outfit this this this because the brand is this you can give certain options saying hey this is the line of thought and they respect it but the minute you start micromanaging this is like

[00:24:04] micromanagement right telling every detail what to do then just hire somebody in house and get them to do what you want i had this client literally two days ago where we were having this

[00:24:16] back and forth on what's happened again my team's on it but because i'm like i know these guys i would much rather be better myself and they're like we want this this this and i've sent it out of

[00:24:25] here we make it look more organic i'm like your end-to-end ad lines here your hashtag five hashtags screen pay handles here organic kaha se lagne wala hai it's not if you want something to look organic let the media managers let the content creators construct the flow of the

[00:24:46] content we can tell you what will work if you let us tell you what will work if you give me a script or you tell me oh you're saying this is fine but now this needs to be done this new 50 hashtags

[00:24:59] how's it gonna look organic guys nothing you do yeah we do it but is it going to work for goal one it's definitely not going to because dictating anybody their expertise i think is one of

[00:25:10] the biggest drawbacks of everybody comes with the fact that you said no i know it all there's a very new thing going around and i've heard this from a lot of others i've experienced it only recently

[00:25:21] where they're like oh but so-and-so bloggers doing it and i'm sure you must have got the agency version of this so when i heard this for the first time recently i said to my manager

[00:25:32] i'm out yeah and then i backed out of the campaign and then i was reached out to directly by the brand saying hey we wanted you what happened and i was like well your agency said this to me

[00:25:42] then i'm like i'm gonna say it because if you're gonna force me into that situation then i'm sorry i'm happy to call a speeder don't sell yourself shot that's what i i think is one of my key

[00:25:52] learnings we say yes very easily because of relationships we'll do that for a relationship but when you know that's crossing a line not because of the relationship that you share with the person but because of external factors don't sell yourself shot i i know it's come we keep

[00:26:07] doing it but just don't i think like to stand in your own ground is such a high is such a feel good like i can see like you get into that i know what you're saying because that's exactly how it should

[00:26:20] be can have hundred comparisons about i'm going to this place because they are offering me so much or this agency is doing this but your deliverables are less i'm like there are enough recipes but

[00:26:29] you're getting a chef to cook it and you're not getting your cook to do it so it's your decision go have that you want a taj then don't compare it to the roadside hawker no they will be a hawker

[00:26:41] i will be a taj and i'm not going to lower my standards for that i love this metaphor the foodie in me is very satisfied with this metaphor so we play this fun game on the podcast it's called

[00:26:51] associate this and i want to throw this is going completely carajo around me i love it see i i don't know if i get a chance then i don't become a karani and i throw these words at people

[00:27:04] the key is i'm going to throw words at you and tell me what comes to your mind yeah go for it and don't have your words so i'm going to use my own so this conversation happens with influencers

[00:27:12] very often and i actually had a conversation with a food creator just last week who said that she has actually lost out on campaigns because she doesn't have the verification blue tick is that something that agencies truly genuinely care about no that's a myth that doesn't happen like

[00:27:30] that honestly if you're well invested with the brand and the brand trusts you so the current clientele attitude at least is a trustworthy one i must say they they will rely on your expertise

[00:27:40] to be able to do it they'll have their own wish list and categories but it's for you to fight for it and say hey we genuinely believe the content is here to stay so no that's a myth

[00:27:50] at least with most agencies this will be a myth we don't prefer a blue tick i think after what elon has done i think everything is out for everyone to know what are some other myths you've

[00:28:01] heard about like the creator economy or about the pr landscape are there any other myths that you can bust for us not immediately but i know there are a lot of these uh you know

[00:28:10] sideline conversations that happen that i know this one they will do it yeah i made a relationship i think that needs to be put a little bit more structured no matter how well do you know there's

[00:28:21] a certain boundary of saying yes and no and a way to ask i think that relationship across sacrosan should never be taken for granted we've all had those instances you make uncomfortable calls and say it

[00:28:33] but be transparent about it and then get your work done and honor your statement after whatever you have to do i think a lot of myth is also on the charging bit i think you know don't play this

[00:28:45] dual rates game etc it's all out there for the open so for creators especially keep it transparent it's only going to help you get more business yeah if you're gonna have this i know this one this rate

[00:28:56] for you this rate for them it's a small world the client is going to move the agency agency will move to client it's gonna be one happy family keep it happy we don't represent content creators

[00:29:07] unless you're really close to me i will do whatever it takes but doesn't make any difference keep it transparent keep it business like the more your structured the more it's easier for us to associate

[00:29:19] because we know from start to end it's taken care of yeah and there's no better joy than working with somebody who gets it whether it's your own team or anybody right true thanks for coming on for being so candid for being slightly politically incorrect you know i appreciate

[00:29:34] honestly i thought you would have been my most fun chat i've had in a long long time and laughed so much right i'm so grateful thank you thank you for doing this i hope that this episode has helped

[00:29:45] anyone from outside of the media space and industry understand a little bit more on how pr works the influencer world works just media at large and maybe we'll do a round two with you at some point when we have enough questions and hopefully we have loads of those

[00:30:01] we'll have lots of stories for sure and for everybody guys this is verified thank you comal for coming on the pod