The Tortured Recruiters Department

[00:00:00] This week on the Recruitment Flex, Dropping Breadcrumbs Just Like Taylor Swift, The FTC

[00:00:06] is saying no to non-competes.

[00:00:08] Layoff!

[00:00:09] Not good news at many high profile companies.

[00:00:13] Plus, call me when you have 10,000 H1 GPUs.

[00:00:21] TRF with my dad and Shelly starts right now.

[00:00:31] Welcome to the Recruitment Flex with Serge and Shelly.

[00:00:33] I'm Serge.

[00:00:34] And I'm Shelly.

[00:00:35] And we talk all things recruitment starting right now.

[00:00:40] Bonjour, Shelly.

[00:00:43] Have you listened to Taylor Swift's new album yet?

[00:00:47] Not the whole thing.

[00:00:49] Like when she first dropped her first songs.

[00:00:52] Yes, I've listened to about the first five or seven on the first album, but I've

[00:00:57] not listened to the entire Tortured Poets Department anthology from end to end.

[00:01:03] Tell me how exciting was it at your house?

[00:01:06] Very exciting for Mallory, I think.

[00:01:08] She's been waiting for this for a long time.

[00:01:10] So in the morning she has a little Google Alexa thing and she always asks like what's

[00:01:15] the news?

[00:01:16] And a week before the news came up that Taylor Swift new album was coming out really

[00:01:21] soon.

[00:01:22] So she's been asking every day when is this album coming out?

[00:01:25] So when I woke up, I saw it on Spotify that it popped up and I showed it to her.

[00:01:30] And she loves it.

[00:01:31] Like she loves Fortnite the first song.

[00:01:32] I don't know if she's listened to like the double album or all of it, but I've

[00:01:37] heard random songs going across the house for the last week.

[00:01:41] Do you know what surprised me, Serge, was how explicit the lyrics were?

[00:01:46] I hope you noticed that when you're letting Mallory listen.

[00:01:50] But of the first 16 songs, I think in terms of explicit lyrics, I think there's like

[00:01:58] five songs that have an E rating.

[00:02:00] Just a heads up, dad.

[00:02:01] Thank you for that because I had no clue.

[00:02:04] Yes, a few F-bombs, which I thought that was an interesting choice.

[00:02:11] That's interesting because I don't know Mallory sometimes overhears some of the

[00:02:15] music that I listen to and I can guarantee you there's some explicit ratings on those

[00:02:19] songs. But she's the first one, say we're in the car and I'm not expecting a song to

[00:02:23] have an explicit lyric.

[00:02:24] She's like changed that song.

[00:02:26] So now that you're saying that, I don't know if I like that because she's such

[00:02:31] a role model and she might think it's OK now.

[00:02:34] It's just not daddy's bad rap music.

[00:02:37] It's Taylor Swift swearing.

[00:02:38] So good point.

[00:02:40] I'm going to have to check that out.

[00:02:41] Yeah, you should check that.

[00:02:42] I was surprised when I downloaded it.

[00:02:45] And as I listened to the first few songs, loved it.

[00:02:49] Loved it.

[00:02:49] Did you hear the one that is her response to Kim Kardashian?

[00:02:55] Yes, yes.

[00:02:57] I have heard it.

[00:02:58] One of the lyrics is Taylor Swift says that she's referring to her own

[00:03:02] mother and saying everyone knows my mother is a saintly woman,

[00:03:06] but she wished you were dead.

[00:03:09] Wow.

[00:03:09] I love that Taylor Swift is going out there and she's like a rapper from

[00:03:14] the 1990s doing diss tracks.

[00:03:17] It doesn't matter anymore, right?

[00:03:19] She can put pretty much any song and people are going to listen to it.

[00:03:23] So good on her.

[00:03:24] But it was big news last week.

[00:03:27] I haven't seen the video for Fortnite.

[00:03:29] So good.

[00:03:30] So good.

[00:03:31] Really creative, incredibly creative.

[00:03:35] So audience, there goes your Swifty update for the week.

[00:03:39] That was big news last week, but we have bigger news this week.

[00:03:43] We do.

[00:03:44] Shelley, the floor is to you.

[00:03:45] Yes, big drum roll.

[00:03:47] It's probably been the biggest event in my life in seven years.

[00:03:52] I am so pleased to announce to everyone that Surge has joined my

[00:03:58] company, Higher Value, as VP of Gross.

[00:04:02] I've been working on bringing Surge on board and knowing what we know

[00:04:07] about the talent acquisition industry, adding you into the organization to look

[00:04:13] at partnerships and technology.

[00:04:16] Our increase in productivity since you joined has just gone through the roof.

[00:04:21] So I am very pleased to welcome Surge as my VP of Gross to Higher Value.

[00:04:27] I'm really excited of joining you, Shelley, and what you've been able to

[00:04:30] build in 10 years since you've been in business, mostly by yourself.

[00:04:35] And obviously you've grown over the years, but you have built something

[00:04:39] really impressive and there is another layer to it.

[00:04:42] There's another stage leveraging Taylor Swift terms.

[00:04:45] We're going into a new era for Higher Value and we're just going to kill it.

[00:04:49] So I'm excited.

[00:04:50] I think there's a ton of exciting things that are coming out.

[00:04:53] And we talk about this all the time.

[00:04:55] We're very connected to what's going on in this industry.

[00:04:59] And we know there's a wave coming.

[00:05:01] There's a huge wave.

[00:05:03] And what I mean by that, there is so much innovation that's happened in this

[00:05:07] particular space and the market is finally shifting and adjusting to it.

[00:05:12] And we want to be there to ride that wave to grow, Higher Value to be the

[00:05:17] best and the biggest recruitment advertising agency in Canada.

[00:05:23] I am so excited.

[00:05:24] I'm just absolutely thrilled on what this means for how we're going to

[00:05:28] up our game.

[00:05:29] So I'm so glad you responded to the job ad search.

[00:05:34] Yeah, but Shelley, there's a lot of news this week and I want to jump into it.

[00:05:40] The biggest news just happened yesterday.

[00:05:42] The Federal Trade Commission is advancing a proposal to ban non-compete

[00:05:47] clauses in employment contract.

[00:05:50] The proposal is expected to face opposition from some business groups

[00:05:54] and lawmakers who believe non-competes are necessary to protect trade secrets

[00:05:58] and investments in employee training.

[00:06:01] If approved, the ban would mark a significant shift in a labor policy

[00:06:06] and could impact millions of workers across various industries.

[00:06:10] So obviously, Shelley, we're Canadian.

[00:06:12] A little bit different for us.

[00:06:14] So I was really curious.

[00:06:15] I was trying to see is there anyone in our space talking about this

[00:06:18] and what could be the potential impact when it comes to recruitment,

[00:06:22] the labor market?

[00:06:23] And there's a gentleman named Brian Finks.

[00:06:26] He works for McAfee, which is a computer security, cybersecurity software company.

[00:06:32] Used to be at Twitter.

[00:06:34] He's very well known in the industry and he had a really interesting article

[00:06:38] or blog post that talks about it.

[00:06:41] He's predicting there's going to be a tidal wave of talent mobility.

[00:06:46] I'm going to go through all of them and then let's talk about it.

[00:06:49] He feels that this is going to be the golden age when it comes to the

[00:06:54] marketplace for recruiters.

[00:06:55] We are now going to become the most solid out talent because we're going to go

[00:07:01] aggressively and try to recruit from competitors.

[00:07:06] OK, the other thing in this one I might agree with is we're going to see

[00:07:11] a surge of startups and a different wave of innovation is going to now

[00:07:16] release people to go out and do something that's competing against who

[00:07:20] they were working with.

[00:07:22] Obviously, they gain a lot of knowledge, a lot of skills there.

[00:07:25] And what basically held them there was the non-compete either going to a

[00:07:28] competitor or starting a competing firm.

[00:07:31] And the last thing he thought is the competition is going to get extremely

[00:07:36] ferocious between companies trying to recruit from each other.

[00:07:40] My perspective was a little bit different because if we look at the law,

[00:07:44] there is still non-competes in Canada, but there's been so many cases

[00:07:49] that have been thrown out when it comes to non-compete that there's

[00:07:52] really no legal basis.

[00:07:54] It just doesn't stand on his own feet here in Canada.

[00:07:57] And we have seen nothing of this.

[00:08:00] It's not like people are jumping from competitors to competitors.

[00:08:03] It never really happened here.

[00:08:06] But is it different in the U.S.?

[00:08:08] What's your thoughts here, Shelley?

[00:08:10] First of all, were you surprised that the FTC is looking to ban non-competes?

[00:08:15] So we had a little bit of a heads up about this in the fall, and I'm pretty

[00:08:19] sure we reported on it around August of 23.

[00:08:24] Part of me says, I agree.

[00:08:26] You should not be able to steal company secrets.

[00:08:32] That's not a non-compete though.

[00:08:34] No.

[00:08:34] You have what's in your brain and you know what you know.

[00:08:38] Don't steal clients.

[00:08:39] I think that will stay because leaving an organization and then thinking you

[00:08:44] can take the client list with you, that's what holds up in court,

[00:08:48] Canada or the U.S.

[00:08:49] Yes.

[00:08:50] And then bringing other employees with you.

[00:08:52] So that will also hold up in court.

[00:08:55] And it's not that uncommon regardless of industry, like not just the tech

[00:08:58] industry, even if you look at the energy sector here in Canada,

[00:09:03] that's what is taken very seriously is when three or four people leave a

[00:09:06] department that have knowledge of a certain oil and gas play.

[00:09:12] That's a problem.

[00:09:13] But leaving and going to a competitor, you should not be prevented from

[00:09:18] being employed.

[00:09:20] And what I agreed with most of his commentary was sparking innovation.

[00:09:26] Because I have met people who have worked for these big companies,

[00:09:30] have come up with great ideas that solve a problem,

[00:09:33] but it never makes it on the roadmap.

[00:09:36] Customers are asking for a solution, but the organization has other

[00:09:41] priorities.

[00:09:42] So for you to leave and try and make it out on your own,

[00:09:46] I think we should encourage that.

[00:09:48] I agree.

[00:09:49] I'm glad you brought up one point.

[00:09:51] Non-solicitations are not going away.

[00:09:54] And that is just stickler, right?

[00:09:57] That is the most challenging because here in Canada, there's been plenty

[00:10:02] of cases of people going over, starting recruiting folks that they

[00:10:05] used to work with.

[00:10:06] That is still against the law.

[00:10:08] If you have a non-solicitation going after the clients, that will

[00:10:11] hold up in court.

[00:10:12] And everything I read here, not a lot was discussed when it comes

[00:10:16] to non-solicitation agreement.

[00:10:17] It wasn't even brought up in most articles that I read, unless I

[00:10:20] missed it.

[00:10:22] Really interesting times.

[00:10:24] So we'll keep a close eye on this.

[00:10:27] Shelley, over the last two years, the biggest complaint that I've had

[00:10:30] from companies advertising jobs is the amount of foreign

[00:10:36] non-Canadian applicants applying for jobs that are not in the

[00:10:40] country.

[00:10:41] So Brendan Bernard, who's the senior economist at Indeed.com,

[00:10:45] I think he's actually based here in Canada.

[00:10:48] What he shared is to share a clicks on Canadian job postings made by

[00:10:52] job seekers abroad is down 40% since mid 2023.

[00:10:59] The drop has been particularly sharp for lower paying service sector

[00:11:03] jobs where foreign interests jumped most earlier.

[00:11:07] We've talked about this, the growth in population that we've seen

[00:11:10] Canada has been incredible, but also has proven to be not sustainable

[00:11:15] and has caused a lot of challenges when it comes to our housing

[00:11:19] market infrastructure.

[00:11:20] So I think the message is being sent to other countries that were

[00:11:24] not as open to business as we were a year or two years ago.

[00:11:29] Hence, they're looking at other alternatives.

[00:11:31] The other factor to it, and I don't know if you're following

[00:11:34] or you've seen this, there's been plenty of discontent from

[00:11:37] people that have moved to Canada and coming into a very tough housing

[00:11:41] market, a really tough job market.

[00:11:43] And they're like, this place is not as great as we thought it would be.

[00:11:47] And I think that's discouraging other people, especially maybe family

[00:11:50] members.

[00:11:50] What's your take here, Shelley?

[00:11:52] Yeah, Brendan also pointed out in his article that foreign job

[00:11:57] seekers have gotten wise to the fact that there's been some recent

[00:12:01] policy changes.

[00:12:03] Because as we know, the cap on international students

[00:12:07] so it's not the students, it is their family members, their spouses that

[00:12:12] would be coming with them.

[00:12:14] And there is a cap now on how many hours international students can work.

[00:12:19] So knowing the cost of housing, you got to do the math.

[00:12:23] I think this is a good sign.

[00:12:25] It's well done if foreign job seekers now know that it's not what

[00:12:31] it was in 2023.

[00:12:33] And they're starting to curb Canada as a destination.

[00:12:37] I don't know if it's a win, but this is great news for employers because

[00:12:41] there was a lot of situations for a while that 70 to 80% of job

[00:12:45] applicants were non-Canadians, which I don't think any of our clients

[00:12:50] had bias or anything.

[00:12:51] But we all know the challenges of bringing people with our LMIA

[00:12:56] process, all those things that we rather look at someone that's

[00:12:59] already a permanent resident or a citizen here in Canada before we

[00:13:03] start looking at those options abroad just because the process is so

[00:13:06] much longer.

[00:13:07] And if you're getting 500 applicants and 450 are not in Canada and you

[00:13:12] have to sift through them, it's not a good experience for anyone.

[00:13:16] I'm glad to see this.

[00:13:17] I think this is good news across the board for employers and

[00:13:21] also job seekers.

[00:13:23] Shelly, I know you don't like layoffs, but there is a bunch

[00:13:26] of layoffs this week.

[00:13:28] There is a bunch of layoffs and there's also a little bit of

[00:13:31] drama going on at Google.

[00:13:34] Google did announce a second major job cut round here in 2024.

[00:13:39] They also have had a little bit of a revolt going on.

[00:13:44] The Google CEO, Sundar Pichai has reportedly fired 20 employees

[00:13:51] on top of the 28 people already fired in their involvement

[00:13:55] for protests against the company.

[00:13:58] There's a little bit of discontent going on over there.

[00:14:01] I think they're scared.

[00:14:03] Honestly, I feel that the expectation that Google has been so

[00:14:08] far ahead of the market and everything they did yet with AI, they

[00:14:13] seem to be almost putting their head in the sand because there

[00:14:17] is a belief that open AI is going to diminish the need for

[00:14:24] Google.

[00:14:25] And he wants 2.4 million results when I just say, give me

[00:14:29] the top flower shops.

[00:14:30] I don't need 2,400,000 responses.

[00:14:34] Right?

[00:14:35] So there's some serious stuff going on over there.

[00:14:38] I think.

[00:14:39] Yeah, I have a couple of points there.

[00:14:40] Then we'll move on quickly.

[00:14:42] So the employees are protesting Google's 1.2 billion cloud

[00:14:46] computing project with the Israeli government project Nimbus.

[00:14:51] One of the challenges that Google has had and we saw this

[00:14:54] with Gemini when any picture that you would try to get from

[00:14:59] their AI product, you can find a white person.

[00:15:02] It was impossible.

[00:15:02] George Washington was black.

[00:15:05] So they purposely have built the system to be ultra wool.

[00:15:10] And they're finally putting their foot down.

[00:15:12] They're putting their foot down of these protests are not

[00:15:15] accepted.

[00:15:16] Like you can have your political views, but when you're

[00:15:18] trying to intimidate other employees with your political

[00:15:22] views, you're going to get fired.

[00:15:24] So are you surprised by looking outside of this?

[00:15:28] Google laying off a bunch of people again.

[00:15:31] Do you think it's just the market dynamic of being

[00:15:35] challenged by open AI or is it just the industry in itself?

[00:15:38] Everyone is looking at their companies being like, we have

[00:15:41] way too many people.

[00:15:42] I think the latter.

[00:15:44] I really do.

[00:15:45] I believe they have ballooned up to an organization where

[00:15:50] obviously the CEO was beginning to question.

[00:15:53] Do we have the right people?

[00:15:55] Yeah.

[00:15:56] Yeah.

[00:15:57] In other layoff news, Nike plans to lay off 740 employees

[00:16:02] at his Oregon headquarters.

[00:16:05] So Nike in February announced they were going to cut

[00:16:09] around 2% of his total workforce or more than 1600

[00:16:13] people recently announced there's going to be 740

[00:16:16] employees at its Oregon headquarters, which would be

[00:16:20] included in that 1600.

[00:16:23] I love Nike.

[00:16:24] Nike is like one of my favorite companies.

[00:16:27] I am not surprised to see this because definitely they

[00:16:29] changed their approach during the pandemic.

[00:16:31] They closed some really popular retail stores like

[00:16:34] Urban Outfitters, Olympia Sports and Footwear Giant DSW

[00:16:39] and tried to focus their business on the direct to

[00:16:41] consumer.

[00:16:42] So obviously buying online and they've had some success

[00:16:44] but not as much success as they wanted and their

[00:16:47] competitors like Hookah.

[00:16:49] Have you seen Hookah shoes?

[00:16:50] They're everywhere.

[00:16:52] They're everywhere though.

[00:16:53] Honestly, everywhere.

[00:16:55] And I'm noticing everywhere I look, people are wearing

[00:16:59] these Hookah and On is the other brand.

[00:17:03] Yes.

[00:17:04] Yes.

[00:17:04] Yeah.

[00:17:05] And we're talking the younger generation.

[00:17:07] They're not as in love with Nike as our generation is.

[00:17:12] They were though even a couple of years ago.

[00:17:14] So the Air Jordans are still the most popular shoe

[00:17:16] in the world but their sales have been flat.

[00:17:19] Which has made their share slump 24% over the past

[00:17:23] year.

[00:17:23] So they're making some adjustments and continuing on

[00:17:26] that path.

[00:17:27] And I swear this is the last one, Shelly.

[00:17:29] Okay.

[00:17:29] So today, so Tesla is going to reportedly slash over 10%

[00:17:33] of its global workforce.

[00:17:35] Not surprising.

[00:17:36] We're seeing a lot of challenges right now when it

[00:17:38] comes to the EV market and they knew this would happen.

[00:17:41] You hit a certain point.

[00:17:42] It hasn't gone to the next level where people across

[00:17:46] the world are like, let's replace our combustible

[00:17:50] engine with electric.

[00:17:52] Like Elon is always like this.

[00:17:54] And this is one of the things working for Elon is

[00:17:57] there's a good chance that you could get laid off.

[00:17:59] He doesn't really care about the individuals in this

[00:18:03] case has never been his MO.

[00:18:06] And this is a perfect example, right?

[00:18:08] He's seeing inefficiencies and he's cutting it.

[00:18:11] And obviously there's probably a ton of pressure

[00:18:13] on the stock.

[00:18:14] There's a lot going on.

[00:18:15] So I'm not surprised to see this.

[00:18:18] In total, this is 6020 employees.

[00:18:22] 3,300 in California and around 2,700 in Texas.

[00:18:28] So there you go.

[00:18:29] That's the news.

[00:18:30] A lot of news.

[00:18:31] We're already halfway through the show.

[00:18:32] So let's jump into the tip of the week, Shelley.

[00:18:35] All right.

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[00:19:06] So the tip of the week is why have we been asking this question?

[00:19:12] Where do you see yourself in five years?

[00:19:15] And we need to stop and ask ourselves, first of all,

[00:19:19] why are you asking that question?

[00:19:22] And what would constitute a good answer?

[00:19:25] When we look at the pace of how things change,

[00:19:28] asking somebody about five years from now is just a ridiculous question.

[00:19:33] And I think it's just breaking an old habit.

[00:19:36] So my tip of the week is stop asking.

[00:19:40] Where do you see yourself in five years?

[00:19:43] I disagree with your assessment there, Shelley.

[00:19:46] I disagree with your tip of the week because the goal is not to...

[00:19:50] Say more.

[00:19:52] The goal of asking that question is not to know exactly what they're going to do in five years.

[00:19:57] You might be right that some employers are a little bit delusional and be like,

[00:20:00] I want them to say that I want to grow up in the company and become the CEO.

[00:20:05] That's probably not the case.

[00:20:06] But if I was asking that question, Shelley,

[00:20:08] the main reason I would want to know is are they intentional?

[00:20:11] Are they intentional of how they plan their life

[00:20:14] and what they want to do and how they set goals?

[00:20:16] Because that tells me a lot about a person.

[00:20:18] If they're living their whole life thinking a month at a time,

[00:20:23] how do you get anything accomplished?

[00:20:25] So I'm going to respectfully disagree that we should remove that.

[00:20:29] Okay.

[00:20:30] Game on.

[00:20:31] Listen, the gloves are off.

[00:20:32] Search.

[00:20:34] Tell me when you ask a candidate what constitutes a good answer?

[00:20:39] I always say if you're in the business of being a recruiter and interviewing people,

[00:20:45] don't ever ask a question that you don't know the answer to.

[00:20:49] So give me at least two things that would constitute a good answer

[00:20:54] if I asked you where do you see yourself in five years?

[00:20:57] What would you have to hear?

[00:20:58] Well, first of all, Shelley, before you go any further,

[00:21:00] I disagree with what you just said that you should know the answer for an interview question.

[00:21:06] You do need to know why you're asking it.

[00:21:08] Yeah, yeah.

[00:21:09] No, you didn't say that.

[00:21:11] What would you need to hear that convinces you that this person can think past next week?

[00:21:17] Yeah. So I'm not going to know the answer, but here are the two things that I'm looking.

[00:21:22] I'm looking for them that they plan.

[00:21:24] They can communicate what they're trying to achieve, right?

[00:21:28] Like communication and then intention are the things that I'm looking there.

[00:21:33] That's it.

[00:21:34] That's all I want to know.

[00:21:34] Is there an exact answer that is correct?

[00:21:39] No, there's not.

[00:21:41] In most interview questions, there's not an exact answer that is correct 100% of the time.

[00:21:46] So being intentional and being able to communicate as long as it's relevant

[00:21:52] to being successful in that type of work.

[00:21:56] But I don't think a lot of times we just keep asking the same old questions

[00:22:00] and never stop to think why are we asking them.

[00:22:03] I will agree with that.

[00:22:05] A lot of people ask that question and what they expect is exactly what I said at the top.

[00:22:10] Software developer as an example, I want to become a senior.

[00:22:13] Then I want to be the lead and I want to be the CTO.

[00:22:18] If that's what you're looking for, well then,

[00:22:21] yeah, you're going to get a bullshit answer, right?

[00:22:24] Exactly.

[00:22:24] If you're going in with an open-

[00:22:26] They need a bullshit answer.

[00:22:27] Yeah. Maybe you're right on that point because it does,

[00:22:30] depending on how it's asked, you'll probably get a bullshit answer now that I'm thinking about it,

[00:22:36] but I still don't think it's a bad question.

[00:22:38] All right. Let's jump into the recruiting insights.

[00:22:41] Okay.

[00:22:41] The recruiting insights brought to you by Mitova.

[00:22:44] Shelly, are you tired of the same old outsourcing woes?

[00:22:48] Well, say hello to nearshoring.

[00:22:50] It's like outsourcing, but closer and it won't make you pull your hair out.

[00:22:55] Picture this, top-notch IT talent from Latin American.

[00:22:59] Many Latin American IT professionals have strong English language skills

[00:23:03] and even live in the same time zone, so no more midnight conference calls.

[00:23:08] Hallelujah.

[00:23:09] Plus, Latin America's growing tech ecosystem,

[00:23:13] strong educational institutions, and a pool of skilled IT professionals

[00:23:18] make it the perfect region for recruiting talent.

[00:23:21] I have the perfect company that does this.

[00:23:23] The company's name is Mitova.

[00:23:25] They have local experts who handle everything from recruiting to HR support.

[00:23:31] So why settle for the same old outsourcing blues

[00:23:34] when you can have the nearshoring party with Mitova?

[00:23:38] Look them up at mitova.com and let's get the fiesta started.

[00:23:44] You know, Shelly, I want to jump into the recruiting insights and talking about

[00:23:48] if you were a recruiter hiring AI,

[00:23:51] this is a very unique skill set at the highest level and probably the most

[00:23:58] challenging role that companies will need to hire moving forward

[00:24:02] because there's a huge competitive disadvantage when it comes to hiring an AI.

[00:24:08] And I'll give you an example.

[00:24:09] So Aravind Sivarnath, the founder and CEO of Perplexity AI recently revealed

[00:24:16] he was told, come back to me when you have, I don't even know what this means,

[00:24:22] 10,000 H1 GPUs when trying to hire a senior AI researcher from Meta.

[00:24:29] So what I mean by this is there is this subset of companies that have

[00:24:34] a huge advantage over the rest of the marketplace when it comes to hiring AI.

[00:24:41] This is where startups, how are they going to survive?

[00:24:43] How are they going to compete for talent when you go against the Meta,

[00:24:47] the Googles, the OpenAI, Microsoft, all these players have all the money in the world to buy

[00:24:54] these extremely expensive NVIDIA chips.

[00:24:58] So what's going to end up is all the top talent in that space is all going to be gathered up

[00:25:04] around those fan companies.

[00:25:06] OpenAI would be included in that.

[00:25:08] The rest were just going to be basically fighting for the scraps.

[00:25:12] What's your take here?

[00:25:14] I think this is going to be extremely challenged because the skill set that we're going to need in

[00:25:18] the next five years is going to be so huge and it's going to get hoarded by the big companies

[00:25:24] with massive computing powers.

[00:25:26] And then on the other side is they're going to be competing against each other

[00:25:30] and poaching talking about non-compete.

[00:25:33] No one is paying attention to non-compete when it comes to AI.

[00:25:36] Like you got Mark Zuckerberg, like we talked last week, that is openly recruiting.

[00:25:41] Google's doing the same thing.

[00:25:43] Every company in the space is putting all their top dogs in this fight for this talent.

[00:25:49] What do you think is going to happen, Shelley?

[00:25:50] I think we've seen it before.

[00:25:52] This is the same old story.

[00:25:54] And if we recall, was it data scientists four years ago?

[00:26:00] Everyone was just so hot for data scientists and they're offering them $750,000 a year.

[00:26:07] What's unique about this is the computing power that candidates are asking for.

[00:26:14] The quote that you had here from Arvind Cervantes, the CEO of Perplexity AI,

[00:26:19] the candidates were demanding that they had higher computing power.

[00:26:24] So I'm not interested in working for a small player who's only got, say, $4,000.

[00:26:30] Don't even attempt.

[00:26:31] Yeah, 20%.

[00:26:33] Well, no, those are the chips, right?

[00:26:36] That's their computing power.

[00:26:37] So give me something sexy is what I took away from this.

[00:26:42] And employers think if you can just offer competitive compensation or provide skill

[00:26:48] development or, hey, we've got a great culture, that's not cutting it.

[00:26:53] This top talent wants something so remarkable.

[00:26:58] Like give me bigger tools.

[00:27:00] That's what I loved about this article.

[00:27:02] Yeah, it's fascinating because the best stock to own and if you don't own it,

[00:27:08] you should have bought NVIDIA three years ago.

[00:27:11] I know it's a little bit late, but you bought ZipRecruiter instead.

[00:27:16] Little bit different in their directions here.

[00:27:19] Never let me live that down.

[00:27:21] But the example is Meta plans to acquire over 340,000 NVIDIA H100 GPU chips.

[00:27:30] And that's a chip of choice right now.

[00:27:32] They are hoarding the chips so they could hoard the talent.

[00:27:37] I should have gone in AI or maybe it's not too late.

[00:27:39] Maybe, Shelley, I know I just joined you, but I might be going in AI because there's a ton of jobs.

[00:27:46] And basically, you're able to set your market.

[00:27:48] I don't think there's a number.

[00:27:50] If you are at that high level going to Meta and saying, I need a million dollars,

[00:27:54] I don't think anyone blinks an eye at that.

[00:27:57] I think what this is saying is that money, that kind of money is table stakes.

[00:28:02] It is.

[00:28:02] It's like saying, oh, by the way, we have a medical dental plan.

[00:28:05] What's table stakes?

[00:28:06] So what?

[00:28:08] This is really exciting.

[00:28:09] This was a really fun article for sure.

[00:28:11] It'll be great to watch.

[00:28:13] So speaking of new jobs,

[00:28:18] there was a report that came out that talked about what is the lowest average pay

[00:28:24] people would be willing to accept for a new job.

[00:28:27] And so what's interesting is in America, it has now, and these are average numbers,

[00:28:32] $81,822 as of March, which is the highest it's been since 2014.

[00:28:40] And it's a big jump because in November they had polled Americans on this topic

[00:28:46] and the number was 73,391 on average.

[00:28:52] This is on average to take a new job.

[00:28:54] So salary expectations is an interesting conversation because men said that the lowest

[00:29:02] they'd accept, so if we parse this data out again, 81,000 was an average, but men said

[00:29:08] the lowest offer they would accept to change jobs was 95 compared to women who said they'd change

[00:29:16] for 66,300.

[00:29:18] Wow, that is a big disparity in gender gap for sure of what women are willing to change jobs for.

[00:29:28] Let's talk about that first.

[00:29:29] Why do you think that is Shelley?

[00:29:31] So what this doesn't talk about is same for same, right?

[00:29:36] So pay equity if I'm doing the same job and I have the same level of experience

[00:29:42] and expertise, but it's essentially same work, same pay.

[00:29:45] What this is telling me is that women still are not asking for as much money as a man

[00:29:55] because these are averages.

[00:29:56] Keep that in mind and yeah, I think it's just going to continue to increase the gap

[00:30:01] in what men and women get paid or even for to change jobs.

[00:30:06] It depends on how you look at it.

[00:30:07] Being devil's advocate here, there's a couple of factors.

[00:30:10] There's a couple of factors.

[00:30:11] We know that women generally are in sectors that pay less.

[00:30:15] We also know that women are the most cases to primary caregiver of their children.

[00:30:21] So they might work part time, like different hours or more flexibility.

[00:30:25] What I'd like to know is like for light, like a marketing director, male and female,

[00:30:30] what are they asking for?

[00:30:32] Is that $30,000 different?

[00:30:35] I don't think it is, but I might be wrong.

[00:30:38] I think the data doesn't give us a true picture of what this actually means.

[00:30:43] But if you're right, that people in the same like for light are asking for $30,000 less.

[00:30:48] No, it's not like for like this isn't just averages and we'd have to

[00:30:54] peel things back a long way to get to that.

[00:30:58] Yes, because if it was like for like something needs to happen to dramatically change it.

[00:31:02] But again, why do you think women ask for less?

[00:31:06] I don't know, Serge.

[00:31:08] I really don't.

[00:31:09] It was through CNBC and Bloomberg reported this.

[00:31:14] We'd have to do a much deeper dive to really understand why.

[00:31:18] The difference here.

[00:31:20] Let's switch to the other element of how much higher that we're asking compared to November.

[00:31:28] I think we've all realized that our cost of living.

[00:31:31] Inflation.

[00:31:32] A lot of cases.

[00:31:33] We're talking about doubling.

[00:31:35] It's very evident that the cost of living $90,000 is not a lot anymore.

[00:31:42] Six figures, 100,000 used to be something to be proud of.

[00:31:46] In reality, it's almost like table stakes for a lot of families.

[00:31:50] Inflation and the cost of living.

[00:31:52] This is what we need for us to make that change.

[00:31:55] We're not going to change a job for the same that we make now or less.

[00:32:01] Why not just stick around?

[00:32:03] This is in the US where the minimum wage is still $7.90 an hour or something ridiculous.

[00:32:11] What I'm seeing in Canada is we're not seeing a big rise in salaries.

[00:32:16] I haven't seen it.

[00:32:17] Maybe you've seen it more than I have, but salaries are not that different than they were

[00:32:21] five years ago overall unless you have a very specific skill set like AI.

[00:32:26] Aside from that, salaries have not gone up.

[00:32:28] Minimum wage has gone up.

[00:32:30] A fair amount since 2014 and I think we're going to see that continue.

[00:32:35] But not a big increase.

[00:32:37] So from what I've been hearing, like more through just client conversations,

[00:32:43] the percentage of salary increases for employees has eeked up like tiny percentages.

[00:32:50] Like a 5% increase is like a big deal.

[00:32:53] And I get that.

[00:32:54] I'm getting a lot of rumblings about Q3 this year.

[00:33:21] There's not been a lot of change.

[00:33:23] It's been very vanilla.

[00:33:25] There's been a lot of maybe holdbacks, but I think we're going to see a lot of people

[00:33:29] changing jobs in Q3.

[00:33:32] Interesting.

[00:33:34] Well, there's one thing you need to have jobs out there for people to change jobs.

[00:33:39] So you might be right, but I would not put money on it right now, Shelley,

[00:33:43] because we just showed three of the biggest companies laying off people and I'm hearing

[00:33:47] it across the board.

[00:33:49] But you are the most positive person that I know and you think about what did you call it?

[00:33:55] You're very Pollyanna.

[00:33:57] I've heard that before.

[00:33:58] I'm very optimistic.

[00:34:00] I try to balance you out.

[00:34:01] That's why we work so well together.

[00:34:03] So on that note, Shelley, it says our first podcast that we actually work

[00:34:08] together outside of the recruitment flex.

[00:34:11] And if you want to know more about higher value, come on, reach out.

[00:34:15] I want coffee, lunch, zoom call.

[00:34:19] Let's do it on that note, Shelley.

[00:34:21] Have a fantastic rest of the week.

[00:34:24] Thanks, Serge.

[00:34:25] Au revoir.

[00:34:34] Shelley, let's face it, texting candidates is the easiest way to hire quicker today,

[00:34:40] but your cell phone doesn't connect to your ATS.

[00:34:42] You're sharing your personal number with strangers.

[00:34:45] It's pretty scary, right, Shelley?

[00:34:47] And it's not even legally compliant.

[00:34:50] This is where our friends at Rectex come in.

[00:34:52] They've created simple yet powerful text recruiting software that works with your ATS.

[00:34:58] Plus, it's designed by recruiters for recruiters so you know it works.

[00:35:03] To learn more and book a demo, visit www.rectxt.com, mention the recruitment flex

[00:35:12] and get 10% off annual plans.

[00:35:16] The Jim Stroud Podcast explores the discoveries and trends forming the future of our lives.

[00:35:25] Brain to brain communication, robot bosses, microchip implants for workers,

[00:35:30] and artificial intelligence replacing human workers are all happening now.

[00:35:36] If you want to know what's happening next, subscribe now to the Jim Stroud Podcast.