Lesson's from Bluey

[00:00:00] This week on Recruitment Flex, challenging times for recruiters trying to get the candidates to

[00:00:06] move to cities for a job. CEOs are quitting at a pace we've never seen before. What are the best

[00:00:14] candidate attraction channels? Plus, the post-hire work HR has to do for skills-based hiring to

[00:00:23] succeed. TRF with my dad and Shelly starts right now.

[00:00:30] Welcome to the Recruitment Flex with Serge and Shelly. I'm Serge.

[00:00:37] And I'm Shelly, and we talk all things recruitment starting right now.

[00:00:44] Bonjour and welcome to the Recruitment Flex. Shelly, do you have your passport? Do you have

[00:00:49] your travel wear already because you've been traveling quite a bit now?

[00:00:54] Do you know what I'm so ready for is to put away my winter coats. Oh my god, oh my god.

[00:01:00] And I have to admit, I don't know if maybe I'm having travel withdrawal or just FOMO because

[00:01:07] I'm seeing like all these events or maybe it's just the way my social media feeds are

[00:01:12] pre-programmed. But I'm really having a bit of withdrawal here of getting out and talking to

[00:01:18] our colleagues and just having that face-to-face time. Like I looked at the SHRM event and I was

[00:01:25] like, oh, because Tim Sackett was signing his volume two and I was like, yes.

[00:01:33] Okay. Yeah. It's on pre-order.

[00:01:34] Yeah. I bought it on pre-order because I want him to get 5,000 copies sold so

[00:01:39] he can be on New York Times bestseller. So I don't know if you got an email. I got an

[00:01:44] I did get the link and the message because I saw that he was at SHRM, right? And I was like, oh

[00:01:50] god, I'd like to be there. I'll tell you the talent fix. The first book was amazing. So

[00:01:56] I'm really looking forward to this one. If the first one is the catalyst for the next one,

[00:02:01] it's going to be a great book. But Shelley, we are going to unleash in a couple of weeks.

[00:02:07] We're not doing a lot of podcast recording and that's on purpose. We'll do a couple,

[00:02:12] but we just want to mingle and meet everyone and go to all these parties and you know, do.

[00:02:19] Are we supposed to admit this? Honestly, there is a lot of different events that we're trying to

[00:02:25] hit all of it and spread ourselves so we can do as much as possible. So we are going there

[00:02:30] for business. Like Shelley, we are doing business. It's not always like sitting at

[00:02:37] the desk or sitting at a boot and try to sell stuff. It's like we're doing business through

[00:02:42] relationships, through our peeps. So that's the goal. But we also have TA Tech in Washington,

[00:02:51] DC. So for anyone listening that wants to go to this conference, we have a special offer.

[00:02:57] I'll put the link to the TA Tech conference registration page. All you have to do is click

[00:03:03] on get tickets, then enter the promo codes, which is friends 25. So friends win an S at the end,

[00:03:11] 25 is the promo code and you'll get to save up to $400. And this is only for our friends

[00:03:17] here at the recruitment flex. It's going to be great. And this is at the International Spy

[00:03:23] Museum with TA Tech and it's in Washington. In two weeks now, we have an event in Toronto

[00:03:31] with our friends at Plum that we're really excited. Yes, and humanly. Yes, there are

[00:03:37] friends too and the hosts. And it's an invite only private event where we have reached out

[00:03:44] and invited talent acquisition execs and leaders from some of Canada's largest companies. And

[00:03:50] we're going to come together for one night and do what we love doing. And that's talking about

[00:03:56] the issues that we're facing in talent acquisition. So the idea is that we will eventually do these

[00:04:02] sorts of events in other parts of North America because it is that opportunity to be in a very

[00:04:11] small closed environment where we can talk freely about the things that we know are happening.

[00:04:17] What do we see happening for global trends and just sharing with each other? And it's

[00:04:24] amazing how it keeps us connected as well to the practitioners, right?

[00:04:28] Totally. It's funny because when I see the invite that goes out to the guests,

[00:04:32] have dinner with the recruitment flex surgeon Shelley, I'm just picturing those emails coming

[00:04:37] in. Who the fuck is Serge and Shelley? I don't know. But on that note, let's jump

[00:04:43] into the news. We've got a couple of quick hits when it comes to industry news. So our

[00:04:48] friends at Hi Bob, we had Sarah Reynolds, the CMO on the show probably a couple of months ago

[00:04:53] and she had talked to us about them eventually launching an ATS because Hi Bob was basically

[00:05:00] everything but an ATS. It had every other module. Now it has an ATS so they launched it

[00:05:06] yesterday. Do you know what the name of it is? It's called Bob Hiring. Clever? Not clever?

[00:05:14] I guess it makes sense. Yeah, it's on brand.

[00:05:17] It's on brand, right? Yeah.

[00:05:19] The other news and I thought this one was very interesting because you remember we broke the

[00:05:25] news here of the Veritone acquisition of Broadbean and then we met Alex from Broadbean who has

[00:05:34] become the senior VP and general manager of Broadbean and Pandologic. They have now combined

[00:05:41] both companies, so Pandologic and Broadbean and it's called Veritone Hire which Veritone is

[00:05:48] obviously the parent company of Pandologic and so good on them. I was looking at LinkedIn,

[00:05:53] Alex is now the senior VP and GM of Veritone Hire. What do you think of that? Do you think

[00:06:00] that's a good move? Yes, to do away with the brand because actually Broadbean is predominant

[00:06:07] certainly in some parts of the world and same thing with Pandologic.

[00:06:12] There's always history with those names and to give it a fresh start with Veritone Hire,

[00:06:17] we remember when Veritone first set their toe in the water and we were going like who are

[00:06:21] these guys? Yeah. Look, it does seem like they've got staying power. They've certainly

[00:06:26] got money. They do have money and it's funny because today I was actually doing research

[00:06:30] for something else and I came across Wade and Wendy which is a chat bot that Pandologic

[00:06:36] acquired in 2021 and I'm trying to find does Wade and Wendy still exist? Is it part of Pendo's

[00:06:42] offerings? So if anyone knows what happened to Wade and Wendy and I'm not saying about two

[00:06:48] people, that's the name of the company that was acquired. I'd love to know because I have no

[00:06:53] clue if they're still part of this, they're part of the offerings. Now let's jump into

[00:06:59] more interesting news when we talk about what's going on in the world right now and

[00:07:03] I came across a really interesting article that talks about the challenges of folks that have

[00:07:10] low rate mortgages compared to the mortgages that are available right now and how it's

[00:07:15] affecting people moving or relocating for roles because obviously if you have a mortgage at a

[00:07:22] low rate and for you to sell your house and buy a house in the new market, you're going to

[00:07:27] be on the new race which like here in Canada, it went from 1.7% I think at its best and now

[00:07:34] mortgage rate is around 6.7%. So huge gap if you're thinking of your mortgage payment,

[00:07:38] it's almost doubling it. But to dig in a little bit deeper what it says,

[00:07:43] so job recruiters in the South are facing hurdles to attract skilled professionals from

[00:07:47] the Midwest despite offering competitive compensation packages according to Bloomberg.

[00:07:54] That's because too many of the potential hires are locked into super low 30-year mortgage.

[00:08:00] During the fourth quarter of 2023, the proportion of job seekers in the U.S. who relocated

[00:08:06] for employment dwindled down to a mere 1.5%. Let's look at what the mortgage data is saying

[00:08:15] in the U.S. So one fifth of U.S. homeowners have mortgages with interest rates below 3%,

[00:08:22] while nearly 35% have rates between 3 and 4%. Then the rest is basically right now the 30-year

[00:08:30] fixed mortgage is around 7%. So that's doubling what the historic low in the U.S. was of 2.85%

[00:08:38] in December 2020. So it makes a lot of sense if you had to move for a job and you had to

[00:08:45] pay double on your mortgage unless the company is going to make that up to you in some ways.

[00:08:51] I wouldn't move. I don't know. Would you move, Shelley?

[00:08:54] No. And I think recruitment is not just new hires coming from outside the organization.

[00:08:59] Think about your internal mobility. If part of your career progression and there are a lot

[00:09:05] of big U.S. companies where internal mobility or job progression means you move. A friend of

[00:09:12] mine's daughter works for KPMG and that's part of the deal. When you sign up that you

[00:09:19] will move to different locations. And it's great if you don't have a mortgage. But if you are

[00:09:26] mid-career, you're right. Why would you move? Because even if your compensation stays the same

[00:09:32] or goes up a little, it's still not going to double but your mortgage rate is. Your quality

[00:09:37] of life just dropped. I was watching Bluey. I don't know if you've ever heard of Bluey.

[00:09:42] So Bluey is a very popular children's show based in Australia and it's on Disney.

[00:09:48] Not plugged into Bluey? It's amazing. So anyone that has kids

[00:09:52] knows exactly what Bluey is. I was watching an episode with my daughters before bed last night

[00:09:58] and their dogs, their family of dogs and the dad, they had to sell their home because he got

[00:10:05] a job offer somewhere else. And obviously the kids were so sad and disappointed. This is

[00:10:11] where they grew up. They didn't want to move somewhere else. And it made me think, I'm

[00:10:15] like, in this day and age, I cannot see myself moving to a different city for a job, especially

[00:10:24] in the world of remote. I know it's less common, but as a knowledge worker, I can do my job

[00:10:31] anywhere. I cannot imagine uprooting my family, doing all of these major life changes

[00:10:38] for a job and an economy that you might get laid off next week, right? Or in a year from now.

[00:10:45] What's your take on that, Shelley? Do people still want to move for jobs? It was very common

[00:10:51] when I grew up that parents move because of a job, but I don't see that anymore.

[00:10:56] And I don't see the interest. Remember we were talking about the

[00:10:59] disproportionate male female population. A lot of it is due to immigration.

[00:11:05] I believe one of the other things we'll probably see in this next generation of workers

[00:11:11] is going to be that mobility. Because if you've already moved once,

[00:11:16] so say you came to Canada and we just brought in what? Three million people.

[00:11:20] There's three million people that are willing to move wherever the work is

[00:11:24] because they've already done it. So for us that are Canadian born or American born,

[00:11:32] what have you. It is true that statistically you'll rarely move more than 10 miles.

[00:11:37] So what I find interesting is your strong feelings about this yet as a young man looking

[00:11:44] for work, first job post getting out of school. What did you do? You moved across the country.

[00:11:50] They moved twice in fact, because you were in Toronto and then you came to Alberta. So

[00:11:56] very interesting that you have moved for work, but now you can't even imagine it.

[00:12:03] Yeah, no good point. It's funny because when you're saying that I'm like, actually I did

[00:12:07] move, but it was such a different part and I did not move because I had a job and I got another

[00:12:13] offer. I'm like, no, I quit my job and I'm going there because there's more opportunity,

[00:12:17] but it'll tell you changes when you have children and all of that challenge as well.

[00:12:23] And like you think about it's expensive to sell your house and to move. Actually they have data

[00:12:28] here says what is the cost of relocating for a mid level manager in the US for a homeowner,

[00:12:36] it costs $78,000 for them to move location. So this is like moving real estate fees,

[00:12:44] all of that stuff. If you're a renter, it's $33,000. It's a huge cost, right? I don't know

[00:12:51] if I do it, but would you move at this point? Maybe you would. Yeah, I would move not right

[00:12:58] like this year or next year, but I would move for various reasons, right? Not for work. You

[00:13:04] move to be closer to your kids or whatever the case is, which makes sense. You're right. Kids

[00:13:09] change the game. They really do. What else is in the news? Shall we? I found this article

[00:13:14] that talked about the government of Kenya is black listing over 500 private recruitment agencies

[00:13:23] alleging their involvement with scamming Kenyans that are looking for jobs abroad.

[00:13:29] We make these assumptions that these are highly educated people that come to Canada or come to

[00:13:35] America, get a work permit. But in fact, there are local private recruitment agencies in Kenya

[00:13:45] scamming their own people for jobs in Canada. I have and do know that this is also very common

[00:13:52] practice in the Philippines where the recruitment agency charges you, the job seeker,

[00:14:00] and it's completely legal to charge someone as a job seeker to get them an interview

[00:14:04] for what could potentially be live and work in Canada. What's become chronic is the scams

[00:14:12] that there is no job on the other end. I think you've had some direct experience with this,

[00:14:17] right? Yeah, it's happened actually. I can think of one time where I had someone and

[00:14:22] I forget where the location, but I think it's the Philippines now that you're saying it is

[00:14:26] they reached out to me being the talent acquisition manager. She's like, Hey, I'm

[00:14:31] starting next week. Give me the details. I got the offer letter. It's signed, blah, blah, blah.

[00:14:37] But I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. Then you start digging into it.

[00:14:41] They had our CFO's name. They sent us the offer letter and it had all the key people in

[00:14:46] the organization. It was obviously executed probably from LinkedIn trying to find legit names

[00:14:53] and that poor person, I'm sure they paid quite a bit for that particular job, but there

[00:14:57] was never a job. I know this is happening and I know in Canada there are people within Canada

[00:15:04] scamming people in other countries as well, or trying to work with SMBs that don't know better.

[00:15:11] When you're getting LinkedIn messages saying, Hey, we run LMIA programs to get you the

[00:15:16] employees that you need. I'm like, why do I need an LMIA program? There is a ton of scams.

[00:15:22] This is also the reason why most big companies on their career site have some type of messaging

[00:15:28] that we only advertise our jobs here because of these scams. But going back to this Kenyan

[00:15:35] situation, I thought this was fascinating. Every year there's around a million people

[00:15:41] that graduate from college, university to be able to get into the workforce. There is only 200,000

[00:15:49] roles available in the country every year. There's 800,000 people that are graduating

[00:15:56] and have no possibility of a job. Hence the reason the Kenyan government is like,

[00:16:00] Hey, we want to facilitate you for you go to UK or whatever, get the experience,

[00:16:04] but we want you to come back, which I'm sure is very challenging, right? Like when you leave,

[00:16:10] you meet someone in that country, you probably don't come back. But isn't it fascinating? A

[00:16:15] million people graduate from university and there's only around 200,000 jobs

[00:16:21] that are available to them. It's a really tough market. So I get why people would fall for

[00:16:26] these scams. In other news, let's move on to a list that was published by Benefit News

[00:16:36] that talked about the best recruitment HR chat box. And so they listed out for 2024.

[00:16:44] And I'm going to go right to the good stuff here. Not surprising. Number one on the list was Olivia

[00:16:49] from our friends over at Paradox. Yes, no surprise at all. MeBot was number two.

[00:16:56] Raid&C was number three with best recruitment software for live chats and virtual events.

[00:17:03] Ideal top recruitment platform that serves as an employer of record,

[00:17:09] higher view leading recruitment solution for on-demand interviews.

[00:17:13] Yeah, so what's your thoughts here? I'm just wondering if they sponsored this article.

[00:17:19] I don't know what kind of scrutiny went in here. Now it does go on to say that they

[00:17:24] did take the time to test and evaluate the best HR chat bots on the market today

[00:17:32] and collect feedback from clients that are using it in all industry sectors,

[00:17:37] whether it was retail, IT, healthcare. They wanted to develop a complete perspective on the options

[00:17:45] that are available in the recruitment tech market. But Wade and Wendy wasn't on the list.

[00:17:50] Sorry, Serge. Yeah, so it must not be a solution anymore, I'm assuming. Reading the

[00:17:56] article is actually pretty good because it goes in depth of what the pros and the cons of each

[00:18:01] one are. I thought it was pretty realistic, but I was questioning myself on some of them. I'm like,

[00:18:07] higher view and what they're talking about, there is no chat bot. How is this the best HR

[00:18:13] recruitment chat bot in 2024? Basically what they're talking about is their video solution,

[00:18:18] which we can argue is higher view the best? Maybe. They're definitely the most well-known.

[00:18:23] Still alive. Yeah, and so many of them have gone under. Exactly. Radiancy is an agency,

[00:18:29] or maybe this is different than the radiancy that we know of. One that is fascinating,

[00:18:35] MiMiBot. I read up a lot on MiMiBot. What it is, it's a chat bot for internal HR and

[00:18:40] talent acquisition team, not an external one. It seems to work really well. The recommendations

[00:18:46] and referrals on it are really strong. I don't know, I've never really dug into them before

[00:18:51] and I think it's a pretty cool tool. No surprise, Olivia, it's the standard bearer when it comes to

[00:18:57] chat bots in our industry and I think will be for a long time. Kudos to them.

[00:19:02] Now let's jump into the tip of the week, Shelley. Hey.

[00:19:06] Your tip of the week is brought to you by Plum. Plum knows that when people flourish,

[00:19:11] businesses thrive. Using science-backed insights, Plum aligns human potential with

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[00:19:35] So, Serge, I caught this really cool article and I thought I got to share this. This has got

[00:19:41] to be part of my tip of the week because it is maybe not your pet peeve, but certainly one of

[00:19:47] the things that makes me cringe is using that We Are Family in recruitment marketing. It's

[00:19:54] easy to throw darts at it, but who's doing it right? So I did a little bit of research and

[00:20:02] found that there's better ways of explaining what you mean when you say we are family

[00:20:07] and the example from the article was Netflix and they did get it right. They use the analogy

[00:20:13] of a professional team. People are selected because they're really good at one thing.

[00:20:19] Like if you think of a baseball team, think of any sports team, right? Each position has a

[00:20:24] purpose and you choose the best people for that and they all move in the same direction

[00:20:29] and they've all got the same goal of winning. So I take it one step further because there's

[00:20:35] other analogies you can use. It doesn't have to be a sports analogy. It can be orchestra,

[00:20:41] it can be talking about ecosystems, for example. That can be another way. But my tip

[00:20:48] of the week is stop saying we're family when describing your culture.

[00:20:52] I love the sports team and I read the Netflix book and a couple of chapters are

[00:20:58] exactly on that strategy and why it works and it makes a lot of sense because as part

[00:21:02] of a team, everyone's striving for the same thing. But if you are not performing at a level

[00:21:08] you need to do, it's no longer about feelings or anything like that. You need the best people

[00:21:13] in that particular seat or position for the best possible chance to win and I think that is

[00:21:19] perfect for business, right? It's exactly the same. People get caught, they wave, traded.

[00:21:26] Well, not that you can trade employees. That would be amazing though. Like I want to bring

[00:21:31] rating employees in a corporate setting. That would be my dream job, just trading

[00:21:37] employees for other employees. Human trafficking.

[00:21:41] Actually, never mind. Never mind. All right, good tip of the week, Shelley.

[00:21:46] Good tip of the week. How about we jump into the recruiting insights brought to you by

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[00:22:54] Shelley, did you ever do executive recruitment in your recruitment days?

[00:22:58] You did. Oh yes. That's probably where I had the most fun. Really? Where I enjoyed it the most.

[00:23:06] How could you ever get tired of interviewing and meeting really smart people?

[00:23:10] Yeah, true. Oh, loved it. My favorite. Yep.

[00:23:14] There's a recent article in Forbes that talks about the challenge that companies are

[00:23:18] seeing right now because CEO turnover is huge right now. So it hit a record last year,

[00:23:24] just nine months into 2023 and more than 1400 CEOs had already headed for the door.

[00:23:32] You automatically assume that it's because of retirement because most CEOs are a little bit

[00:23:37] older. This is not the case. So newly appointed CEOs are also leaving their roles with

[00:23:43] around 11% departing after just 12 months and 34% leaving by year three. It makes me think, why?

[00:23:54] Is it just that they're failing in their role really quickly? Is it they're realizing that

[00:23:59] this is not what they were sold coming into new organization? But I have a hard time believing

[00:24:06] that Shelley because I just think about executive level hires, they go through the ringer. Like

[00:24:11] I recruit executive level roles and the process is extremely lengthy. There's a lot of due

[00:24:17] diligence. So I am surprised that CEOs are turning over so quickly. What is causing this?

[00:24:25] What's your take here? I don't think executive search is immune

[00:24:31] to the same things we see in the mid level. And what I mean by that is multiple interviews,

[00:24:37] but I think more importantly, depending on the search firm that you're working with,

[00:24:43] you may be getting a glossy version of what's really happening. Why do they really need to fill

[00:24:50] the CEO spot? Are there any sacred cows? Who's going to tell you that? Yeah. If you're going

[00:24:58] for the top spot, is it the chairman of the board? You don't know. So I'm not surprised that

[00:25:04] there is this much turnover because it's the same like in order to attract the sort of talent

[00:25:10] that you want, you may not be giving them the whole story. The other thing though is how long

[00:25:17] it takes if you are without a CEO for six months. The average time that the role is

[00:25:24] vacant is 149 days. Somebody's got to be steering the ship if there's nobody in that

[00:25:31] role. And generally would be the president or whoever second in charge, but it makes me wonder

[00:25:36] if someone is running the company for that long, why don't we just give them the title,

[00:25:41] right? If they're doing a good job, but obviously it's a little bit more complex than that.

[00:25:47] What did you read into it? There's a couple of things. I talk a lot about love bombing,

[00:25:51] right? That we're selling something that is not real and I think this is happening even

[00:25:56] though there is a lot more due diligence, there's a lot more conversations, but I still

[00:26:02] think we have a challenge. We still don't want to share what our faults are because we might not

[00:26:07] know what it is as well. When you're in it, you just become involved and you don't realize

[00:26:13] the craziness or things that don't work well until someone comes in with fresh set of eyes

[00:26:18] and it's like, oh, this is way worse than I thought. And I think that happens all the time,

[00:26:24] but still even to that, you think about going back to a topic of discussion we've had the

[00:26:30] last couple of weeks. And if you read the book, Good to Great, it talks about the history

[00:26:36] of CEOs and if you look at those great companies, the majority, and it was over 90%

[00:26:44] of those CEOs came in internally, had been promoted through the ranks. There was not one

[00:26:51] of those great companies that they listed that had a CEO that was a hired gun, not one.

[00:26:58] So maybe as a company you should look at it. Good to Great is like one of those Bibles in

[00:27:03] business, but no one's following that advice. Like why are we not hiring or prepping or getting

[00:27:09] a succession plan for those CEOs internally? So something to keep an eye out, but CEOs

[00:27:15] are not loving their jobs and quitting pretty quickly, which seems like the rest of the

[00:27:19] population. Shelley, our next recruiting insight. So Personnel Today, your favorite new site,

[00:27:27] is sharing what candidate attraction channels work best. This is UK based, but gives us a pretty

[00:27:34] good picture across the world. And it was done with a survey of around 700 recruiters,

[00:27:40] mainly in-house, which is a really good thing to clarify. And it shares that LinkedIn is the

[00:27:46] number two source after their own career sites, which I find interesting because unless you are

[00:27:54] household international brand, no one is going to your career site. So I'm going to make some

[00:28:00] assumptions that those that are going to the career sites are coming from somewhere else. And

[00:28:06] another assumption I can make is probably a majority of them are maybe from Indeed and

[00:28:11] in the UK could be Read or a couple of other sites, but I'm not surprised. This is my personal

[00:28:17] experience as well when I look at all the sources of candidates working in the world

[00:28:22] of knowledge work. LinkedIn is by far the provider of the best quality candidates that

[00:28:29] I've seen from multiple sources. Obviously depends what you're looking for, but that's

[00:28:34] been my experience. So it says that the biggest recruitment challenge right now is the lack of

[00:28:40] suitably qualified skill in candidates. This affects 61% of organizations. We're hearing this. I know

[00:28:49] we're all in conversations with recruiters, with TA leaders, with HR folks. And the biggest

[00:28:54] thing I hear over and over again, we cannot find qualified skill applicants for the roles that

[00:29:01] we're hiring. So we know this is true. This is real. The other challenge that they're seeing

[00:29:06] is building a diverse and inclusive workforce with the second key challenge of 34%.

[00:29:13] And another challenge that a lot of organizations have been having is the

[00:29:17] advertised salaries are lower than the market average. And that affected 31% of companies,

[00:29:24] but any surprises Shelley that LinkedIn is probably one of the most preferred sources of

[00:29:30] candidates right now in the UK. That did surprise me.

[00:29:33] That did. Because I think LinkedIn serves a certain market. It's not the whole market.

[00:29:40] It's a certain market and these are in-house recruiters. So it did surprise me that job

[00:29:46] boards did not show up. And I know we've talked about this before, is LinkedIn a job board or

[00:29:52] not? By true definition, LinkedIn is, but I didn't realize they were that dominant as a

[00:29:59] job board in the UK. I'm not surprised. Really?

[00:30:04] I think we underestimate the LinkedIn job board portion and Jeff, if you're listening,

[00:30:11] job board doctor, don't come screaming at me because I forget on which side that you're

[00:30:15] on or Steven Rothberg. LinkedIn there's definitely a huge element that is a job

[00:30:20] board, but I think we underestimate how much traction and candidates that LinkedIn drives

[00:30:28] even compared to the indeed of the world. Cause I've worked on platforms that were getting

[00:30:33] sources from every candidate and LinkedIn does really well. And it's usually number one when it

[00:30:38] comes to sources, when it comes to source of hires, they're definitely on top of their game

[00:30:44] compared to the other job boards. And to your point of saying, I'm surprised that there's no

[00:30:48] other job boards. I think it goes to what I said earlier, the candidates coming to their

[00:30:52] career sites are coming directly. No, no, they saw the job on indeed or read or whatever

[00:30:57] cases and that's how they ended up to the job site. The last piece of interesting results

[00:31:03] from this survey was that social media had the lowest quality candidates and the lowest

[00:31:10] quantities compared to other channels. And the other channels, of course would be

[00:31:15] recruiting agencies or specialty job boards or talent pools, which performed well when it comes

[00:31:21] to quality of candidates. And at the bottom of the barrel is social media.

[00:31:27] Yeah, not surprised. Quality from social media is usually pretty low, but that's expected,

[00:31:32] right? This is a different pool of candidates when we're talking about, and I hate these

[00:31:37] terms like passive or window shoppers. If the right opportunity comes in front of them,

[00:31:41] they might apply and that's the goal. So you don't expect the quality from social

[00:31:46] media being extremely high, but still nevertheless an important channel because you might be hitting

[00:31:52] candidates that you wouldn't hit any other way. So if you can deal with a little bit of the

[00:31:57] trash, social media is still quite useful in your sourcing strategy. Shelley, do you want

[00:32:04] to jump into the last recruiting insights of the day? Yes, we've spent certainly from January

[00:32:11] until now talking about one of the hottest topics in talent acquisition around the world,

[00:32:17] skills-based hiring. And this article from HR executive talked about what is the work

[00:32:26] that HR and more specifically learning and development need to do internally if hiring

[00:32:33] managers and recruiters are all on board for skills-based hiring. What happens next?

[00:32:41] Because recruiters will toss them across the finish line and the hiring managers are then

[00:32:46] left with people who we hired for their skills, but most companies haven't made any sort of

[00:32:53] plan of how to train and educate and how will the needs be different than what we've always

[00:33:01] done. And so talent acquisition is shifting towards the skills first, as we know, with

[00:33:08] 40% of employers on LinkedIn now using this method. This is self-reported, of course.

[00:33:14] And they're actually hiring based on skills rather than the degrees.

[00:33:19] Serge, what were your thoughts on this article?

[00:33:22] So a couple things and this is where I'm a big believer in skill-based hiring,

[00:33:26] but I'm also realistic and have been in the trenches for a long time. And I understand

[00:33:33] the challenges of creating a skills taxonomy within an organization and how challenging

[00:33:39] because there's literally millions of skills out there. So it's great to talk about skill-based

[00:33:45] hiring, but the challenge is can you actually execute? How do you know the skills that are

[00:33:50] internally that you need? Right? It's hard to get companies to do a proper job description

[00:33:55] with basic things. And then when you're asking those questions as far as an organization of,

[00:34:01] okay, there's a million skills out there. Which one do we need in each role and what do they

[00:34:05] mean? And how does that translate into how we assess candidates? That is extremely hard.

[00:34:13] I do believe we're heading into an economy and a talent acquisition world that skill-based is

[00:34:18] going to be critical. But I also believe it's going to take a long time for most

[00:34:24] organizations to create the backend to be successful with hiring a skill-based. And honestly,

[00:34:32] I don't think it falls in talent acquisition. I think talent acquisition does the execution on

[00:34:37] the first level of, okay, you've given me all the tools that I need to understand what skills

[00:34:42] we need to hire for this role. I've gotten the proper tools and assessment. So now I can do it.

[00:34:50] But all of that work, it has to be done from HR and talent management before it gets to the

[00:34:55] point of, okay, we're ready to do skill-based hiring. And I think there's companies out there

[00:35:00] that have facilitated and made it a lot easier. Our friends at hiring branch is a

[00:35:04] perfect example. This is a long tail. I think the expectation that talent acquisition is going

[00:35:10] to be all skill-based hiring in a couple of years, we are delusional. We're talking a 10

[00:35:16] year play here, in my opinion, at least. What's your thoughts there?

[00:35:21] Interesting. Even when I think back of some of the clients that I've worked with over the

[00:35:25] years, we're just calling it skills-based hiring. There are a lot of companies out there

[00:35:30] that have a good five years under their belt already. HR was calling it competency based,

[00:35:37] which hiring people for their potential or hiring people based on what you are competent

[00:35:46] in doing rather than your degree is what I'm referring to. So I've got a couple of clients

[00:35:51] where that is something that they implemented and they're five years in. And it does mean

[00:35:57] mapping much differently, like the taxonomy that you talk about. It does mean a design

[00:36:05] within the organization because if you said that these are the skills required to do this work,

[00:36:12] how do you take someone who's in the organization and what is their map to get them to the next

[00:36:18] level or operating at a higher competency level? So now we just call it skills.

[00:36:24] So some HR people have laughed and said, you've been at this for years.

[00:36:28] What we haven't been at for years though is hiring people based on those competencies.

[00:36:33] I've always fallen back to just show me your degree and what experience you have

[00:36:39] and taking their word for it. Now with new technology and testing,

[00:36:43] it's actually becoming more of a reality. So you're right. If you've not put in the

[00:36:48] heavy lifting that goes with designing a skills taxonomy, which this is not lightweight stuff

[00:36:54] to do. No, you've got to really know what you're doing. You can't just roll in and

[00:37:01] copy and paste from chat GPT. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way.

[00:37:07] It is a lot of work. It is a lot of work because if you're looking at skill-based hiring,

[00:37:12] you have to define all the required skills when you're talking about even a mid-size

[00:37:16] organization. That's a massive task. Then you have to assess what is good in that particular

[00:37:22] skill set. And then you have to focus how do you provide education for those folks to acquire

[00:37:27] those skill sets internally, which is a completely different program. Like how are you

[00:37:32] creating something with learning and development that actually builds to acquiring those skills?

[00:37:38] And it doesn't stop that. Those skills two years ago are not the same skills you need now

[00:37:42] and are not going to be the same skills you're going to need 18 months from now.

[00:37:46] It's a constant reinforcement and changing. It's very challenging,

[00:37:50] but I think we will get there. It's going to be another 10 years.

[00:37:53] You've got to start small. Start somewhere. Just start. Yes. The upside of doing it is just

[00:38:00] so huge. So on that note, Shelley, we've talked enough for today. We've got some exciting news

[00:38:06] and exciting events, but again, Shelley, we're so fortunate that we have a really engaged,

[00:38:14] loyal listenership and we really appreciate it. So keep listening.

[00:38:19] Keep reaching out to us. We love you on that note, Shelley.

[00:38:32] Shelley, let's face it, texting candidates is the easiest way to hire quicker today,

[00:38:38] but your cell phone doesn't connect to your ATS. You're sharing your personal

[00:38:42] number with strangers. That's pretty scary, right? Shelley? And it's not even legally

[00:38:46] compliant. This is where our friends at Rectex come in. They've created simple yet powerful

[00:38:52] text recruiting software that works with your ATS. Plus it's designed by recruiters for

[00:38:59] recruiters so you know it works. To learn more and book a demo, visit www.rectxt.com,

[00:39:09] mention the recruitment flex and get 10% off annual plans.

[00:39:13] Imagine how fast we could solve the world's biggest problems if more SaaS startups would gain

[00:39:18] traction sooner. Welcome to the Tech Entrepreneur on a Mission podcast. This podcast is dedicated

[00:39:24] to sharing experiences from B2B SaaS CEOs who are going above and beyond to deliver

[00:39:29] change that is noticed. You will hear their secrets and learn what is required to build

[00:39:34] a SaaS business that the world starts talking about and keeps talking about,

[00:39:39] and keeps talking about, and how to overcome the roadblocks to do so.