Debbie Downer
The Recruitment FlexFebruary 02, 202400:34:38

Debbie Downer

This week on TRF we cover: Riots in the streets of Calgary! The little bylaw was not very well thought out. In the News Remote workers face the cold facts, they are 35% higher risk of being laid off. Salesforce joins the flood of tech industry lay offs UPS cuts management and contractors in a bid to save $1BB in costs, that is out of the $100BB in sales in 2022 In happier news, the global online recruitment market is set to reach $49.2 BB by 2030 Tip of the Week 3 simple things to improve your job ads. Shorten your sentences 3 bullet points max! Pay attention to the words you use. “Demonstrated ability” means different things to older workers than it does to younger workers Recruiting Insights Linked In XRay search options, including key fields like job title will have an impact on sourcing tools. SeekOut and hireEZ have a work around. More on skills based hiring. When 46% of workers say their formal qualifications are not relevant to what they are doing in their current job. You need to ask yourself why the fixation on that bachelor’s degree. Bigger isn't better. 85% of mid-sized companies reported ZERO layoffs last year.
Debbie Downer

Debbie Downer

This week on TRF we cover:


Riots in the streets of Calgary! The little bylaw was not very well thought out.


In the News


  • Remote workers face the cold facts, they are 35% higher risk of being laid off.


  • Salesforce joins the flood of tech industry lay offs


  • UPS cuts management and contractors in a bid to save $1BB in costs, that is out of the $100BB in sales in 2022


  • In happier news, the global online recruitment market is set to reach $49.2 BB by 2030


Tip of the Week


3 simple things to improve your job ads. 

  1. Shorten your sentences
  2. 3 bullet points max!
  3. Pay attention to the words you use. “Demonstrated ability” means different things to older workers than it does to younger workers


Recruiting Insights 


  • Linked In XRay search options, including key fields like job title will have an impact on sourcing tools. SeekOut and hireEZ have a work around.


  • More on skills based hiring. When 46% of workers say their formal qualifications are not relevant to what they are doing in their current job. You need to ask yourself why the fixation on that bachelor’s degree.


  • Bigger isn't better. 85% of mid-sized companies reported ZERO layoffs last year. 
[00:00.000 --> 00:15.000] This week on The Recruitment Flex, remote workers more likely to get laid off. Some LinkedIn's changes that might affect you. Plus putting skills first, how you can do it. Tier F with what Adam Shelley starts right now. [00:21.000 --> 00:29.000] Welcome to The Recruitment Flex with Serge and Shelley, I'm Serge. And I'm Shelley and we talk all things recruitment starting right now. [00:31.000 --> 00:40.000] Bonjour and welcome to The Recruitment Flex. Shelley, it's like you're back here in Calgary after traveling the world a little bit more. [00:41.000 --> 00:54.000] Not exactly. Not exactly the world. I was down south in the southern part of the U.S. and I knew I'd arrived when I had the breakfast menu and they had four items for breakfast. [00:54.000 --> 00:59.000] One of them was shrimp and grits. The other was chicken and waffles. I don't know. [00:59.000 --> 01:04.000] What did you choose? Dosed. [01:04.000 --> 01:17.000] It is airline food. This was when I got down south. There's no food on the airlines. No, no, no, $19 for a McDonald's burger and fries. [01:17.000 --> 01:21.000] It's crazy, yeah. At the airport, $19. [01:21.000 --> 01:28.000] It's absolutely insane. The prices of restaurants or fast food places is no longer affordable. [01:28.000 --> 01:39.000] Like last week I went to Fat Burger and got chicken wings and literally 10 chicken wings and a little bit of fries cost $26. [01:39.000 --> 01:44.000] It's crazy. It's an absolute service, right? They don't come to your table. [01:44.000 --> 01:48.000] No, it's not your service. No, it's like fast food. [01:48.000 --> 01:51.000] Do they have a tip jar or does it prompt you to tip them? [01:51.000 --> 01:58.000] It prompts you and tipping culture has gone haywire here in Canada. I think it has in the U.S. as well. [01:58.000 --> 02:05.000] Literally everything asks for a tip or asks for a donation to whatever charity they have. [02:05.000 --> 02:13.000] I'm like, I'm paying $26 for a little bit of chicken here. I'm running out of money. I can't give you a tip. [02:13.000 --> 02:16.000] Donate to this, but yes, absolutely insane. [02:16.000 --> 02:22.000] Even little things here in Calgary, you are getting charged now for a bag at fast food places. [02:22.000 --> 02:27.000] Can you honestly, Serge, I can't believe there isn't rioting in the streets. [02:27.000 --> 02:30.000] Here I go again. McDonald's story is twice here. [02:30.000 --> 02:38.000] So I pull up to the drive-through and I order fries and a burger and they ask me if I want a bag for an extra 10 cents. [02:39.000 --> 02:42.000] Oh, no, just dump the fries in my lap. Thank you. [02:42.000 --> 02:44.000] I'm driving. [02:44.000 --> 02:51.000] Yes, and this is a local bylaw that they pass and now they are in the process of completely repealing it. [02:51.000 --> 02:57.000] I think what it covers is any single use item. This includes bags that they charge you for. [02:57.000 --> 03:02.000] If you're looking for straws, obviously there's no plastic straws, but you have to request it. [03:02.000 --> 03:05.000] You have to request all your utensils and you forget, right? [03:05.000 --> 03:08.000] There was actually a local radio station that went in. [03:08.000 --> 03:14.000] They picked up food from A&W, I think, and they wanted to test if they could get older food without dropping it. [03:14.000 --> 03:19.000] And of course, the fries all fell on the floor of the car, which it's just insane. [03:19.000 --> 03:22.000] It seems like super unpopular, hey? [03:22.000 --> 03:24.000] It is. [03:24.000 --> 03:25.000] Oh, my gosh. [03:25.000 --> 03:26.000] It's a wider repealing it. [03:26.000 --> 03:31.000] But let's jump into the newsters a lot this week. [03:31.000 --> 03:38.000] And obviously, we've talked a lot about layoffs in the last couple of years, especially in the last year. [03:38.000 --> 03:45.000] And I just want to put the context that layoffs get a lot of news because they draw attention. [03:45.000 --> 03:58.000] But I think we get a little bit to hung up on these big numbers that we're seeing from big tech companies because they represent such a small minority of what's going on in the economy itself. [03:58.000 --> 04:02.000] So as you're seeing on LinkedIn every day or in the news, this company lays off. [04:02.000 --> 04:07.000] I think you have to look at the macro of the economy and I don't think this is happening across the board. [04:07.000 --> 04:10.000] It's just high profile companies are showing up. [04:10.000 --> 04:19.000] But if we dig into it, there was an interesting article that came out in the Wall Street Journal that did intensive research on who gets laid off. [04:19.000 --> 04:33.000] And one of the things that came out that I thought was interesting that fully remote employees face a 35% higher risk of being laid off compared to their in office or hybrid counterparts. [04:33.000 --> 04:40.000] The other thing that we found is that 12% of remote workers quit their jobs in 2023. [04:40.000 --> 04:46.000] And this is compared to 9% of hybrid and in office employees. [04:47.000 --> 04:58.000] So data is showing pretty clear if you're working remotely right now and we are all on the same page that we feel that remote workers are still extremely valuable. [04:58.000 --> 05:03.000] And I still don't get why we're forcing everyone back to the office, but it is what it is. [05:03.000 --> 05:12.000] And if you're an employee and you're working remote and there's expect to be layoffs, there is definitely a higher chance that you're going to get laid off. [05:12.000 --> 05:14.000] I think the data shows it pretty clearly. [05:14.000 --> 05:16.000] What's your thought, Shelley? [05:16.000 --> 05:17.000] No surprise. [05:17.000 --> 05:22.000] One of the reasons I traveled this week was to get some face-to-face time with clients. [05:22.000 --> 05:23.000] Yeah. [05:23.000 --> 05:25.000] And I'm not changing teams on you here, Serge. [05:25.000 --> 05:26.000] I like you. [05:26.000 --> 05:30.000] I've been work from home for 10 years, built a remote business. [05:30.000 --> 05:36.000] I know that you can be effective and you still need to show up. [05:36.000 --> 05:52.000] It would be just quite frankly human nature that if I don't have that human connection with you and it's not about dragging somebody into the boardroom and you're going to sit here and watch this PowerPoint presentation. [05:52.000 --> 05:58.000] No, no, I'm talking about the human connection of building a relationship and rapport with people. [05:58.000 --> 06:01.000] That's the real life of what's happening here. [06:01.000 --> 06:04.000] It doesn't mean you can't be effective and fully remote. [06:04.000 --> 06:05.000] You can't. [06:05.000 --> 06:06.000] Yeah. [06:06.000 --> 06:08.000] But human nature is what it is. [06:08.000 --> 06:09.000] I agree. [06:09.000 --> 06:14.000] We're in an environment that we're seeing pretty much every company return to the office. [06:14.000 --> 06:16.000] The majority of people are working in the office. [06:16.000 --> 06:18.000] I think we can all agree on that. [06:18.000 --> 06:26.000] And obviously if you're working remotely with a company that's mostly in office, there is that human connection element. [06:26.000 --> 06:34.000] There's that element of when it comes to laying off people thinking this person is really dedicated and comes to the office every day compared to that person that is working remote. [06:35.000 --> 06:40.000] You feel less attachment, especially you've never met them face to face and everything has been virtual. [06:40.000 --> 06:44.000] It's always going to favor the people that come in the office. [06:44.000 --> 06:48.000] So if you're working remotely, you love it. [06:48.000 --> 06:50.000] I don't see a point in changing. [06:50.000 --> 06:52.000] I just think that you have to be aware. [06:52.000 --> 06:59.000] There is a higher likelihood that you might get laid off and that's one of the downsides of it, but there's so many upsides. [06:59.000 --> 07:03.000] You decide what the right thing is for your career itself. [07:04.000 --> 07:11.000] But then if we jump into layoffs, there's been a lot of layoffs announcement that have come up in the last week. [07:11.000 --> 07:17.000] And one that really struck me was just announced this morning or yesterday was the job cuts at UPS. [07:17.000 --> 07:24.000] So UPS announced plans to cut 12,000 jobs in a bid to save 1 billion US dollars. [07:24.000 --> 07:33.000] The layoffs primarily target managers in contract or position as the company aims to streamline amidst disappointing sales outlook. [07:33.000 --> 07:37.000] I don't know if you remember, but this is around four or five months ago. [07:37.000 --> 07:46.000] It made national news and made international news where the labor negotiations, I believe they're with the Teamster Union. [07:46.000 --> 07:54.000] Driver salaries went up to 170,000 for each driver, which to me seems absolutely insane. [07:54.000 --> 07:58.000] And I'm not saying as a negative because they do work really hard. [07:58.000 --> 08:00.000] It is a really tough job. [08:00.000 --> 08:07.000] But if we look at the main competitors when it comes to delivering packages in Amazon, I know it's not a delivery company, [08:07.000 --> 08:12.000] but they don't pay their employees more than 20 to $25 an hour. [08:12.000 --> 08:16.000] So the cost structure for delivery is way off base right now. [08:16.000 --> 08:19.000] So I'm not surprised to see this. [08:19.000 --> 08:27.000] The other concern that I have over this, Shelley, is usually when we see delivery companies announce layoffs or slow down, [08:27.000 --> 08:36.000] it can give us a sense of what the economy is doing and what is the consumption of new products or anything that would get delivered. [08:36.000 --> 08:48.000] So it's something to keep an eye out, but do you think there's a correlation between all these drivers getting massive raises to these layoffs happening? [08:48.000 --> 08:49.000] Of course. [08:49.000 --> 08:50.000] Absolutely. [08:50.000 --> 09:02.000] And I find it hard to have too much of a fanfare around this because the same article admits that sales exceeding $100 billion in 2022. [09:03.000 --> 09:07.000] Oh, geez, yes, they can afford to pay their drivers that much. [09:07.000 --> 09:11.000] Their business model, I wouldn't compare them to Amazon drivers. [09:11.000 --> 09:12.000] I wouldn't. [09:12.000 --> 09:13.000] I find it really hard. [09:13.000 --> 09:17.000] 12,000 jobs sounds like a lot to save $1 billion. [09:17.000 --> 09:19.000] They made $100 billion. [09:19.000 --> 09:20.000] Okay. [09:20.000 --> 09:21.000] Sorry. [09:21.000 --> 09:22.000] But you know what? [09:22.000 --> 09:23.000] Is it the economy? [09:23.000 --> 09:28.000] No, I'm so tired of the drama around the economy, the recession. [09:28.000 --> 09:30.000] No, it's business as usual. [09:31.000 --> 09:35.000] They finally opened up their wallets and pay their people well. [09:35.000 --> 09:42.000] And maybe they over hired managers and contractors because that's who's hit by these layoffs. [09:42.000 --> 09:47.000] So I think that's the story behind the story, in my opinion. [09:47.000 --> 09:48.000] Yeah. [09:48.000 --> 09:51.000] On top of it, there was a couple of other keynote layoffs. [09:51.000 --> 09:52.000] Salesforce. [09:52.000 --> 09:57.920] So Salesforce announced a layoff of approximately 700 employees, which is around the 1% of its [09:57.920 --> 10:01.400] total workforce of 70,000 people. [10:01.400 --> 10:02.880] First of all, I was shocked. [10:02.880 --> 10:06.160] Salesforce has 70,000 employees. [10:06.160 --> 10:07.160] Good on them. [10:07.160 --> 10:09.000] So 700, not a big deal at all. [10:09.000 --> 10:13.640] Then I was doing a little bit of research and a couple of things that I found with companies [10:13.640 --> 10:14.840] in Canada. [10:14.840 --> 10:17.280] Some of these are not big news at all. [10:17.280 --> 10:26.080] But we recently heard about Enbridge announcing 650 jobs cut in February, then we had Wayfair, [10:26.080 --> 10:30.880] Roana, seven shifts, then the rest like TD banks, all the banks are laying off. [10:30.880 --> 10:35.360] One that I thought was interesting that is coming up is Canadian Tire. [10:35.360 --> 10:40.200] And us Canadians, we love Canadian tires for people that don't know what Canadian Tire [10:40.200 --> 10:41.200] is. [10:41.200 --> 10:43.320] Basically, they sell tires, right? [10:43.320 --> 10:49.800] But they sell everything that you could ever imagine in the worst merchandise type store, [10:49.800 --> 10:51.160] but it's so popular. [10:51.160 --> 10:52.360] Everyone loves Canadian tires. [10:52.360 --> 10:56.840] Surprising to see 3% of its workforce, they do have quite a bit of employees. [10:56.840 --> 10:58.760] I think it's over 20,000 in Canada. [10:58.760 --> 11:04.720] So there is layoffs, but to your point, Shelley, I think if you do a really good job and you focus [11:04.720 --> 11:08.960] on the right thing, the economy is not that bad right now, but we'll see what happens for [11:08.960 --> 11:10.440] the rest of 2024. [11:11.440 --> 11:15.680] Okay, Debbie Downer, can we talk about something actually positive in the news? [11:15.680 --> 11:16.680] Yeah. [11:16.680 --> 11:17.680] Oh, okay. [11:17.680 --> 11:18.680] So positive. [11:18.680 --> 11:19.920] What are you talking about? [11:19.920 --> 11:25.320] Oh, my God, the layoffs, the economy, the sky is falling, the doom and gloom. [11:25.320 --> 11:28.440] You're the one who put this in the show notes. [11:28.440 --> 11:30.840] You're the one that they wanted to talk about this. [11:30.840 --> 11:33.200] So now you're like blaming it on me. [11:33.200 --> 11:37.080] Added the 100 companies going down the toilet in Canada. [11:37.080 --> 11:39.960] Let's do one news item with layoffs, right? [11:39.960 --> 11:44.520] Not 15 minutes of talking about this guy is falling and we're all going to die. [11:44.520 --> 11:46.720] So how about this, Serge? [11:46.720 --> 11:55.560] The online recruitment market globally is set to reach 49.2 billion by the year 2030. [11:55.560 --> 12:00.480] I think this is a wonderful trend for those of us in talent acquisition to pay attention [12:00.480 --> 12:08.080] to not just the job boards, but understand that online or digital recruitment marketing, yes, [12:08.080 --> 12:09.080] I'm in the business. [12:09.160 --> 12:11.760] Yes, I'm excited to read this. [12:11.760 --> 12:15.320] This is awesome news that it is going to increase. [12:15.320 --> 12:20.920] So if talent acquisition people are maybe more interested in the digital world, it's a [12:20.920 --> 12:23.960] great opportunity to dip your toe in the water. [12:23.960 --> 12:24.960] Yeah. [12:24.960 --> 12:25.960] Yeah. [12:25.960 --> 12:28.120] The digital recruitment marketing world. [12:28.120 --> 12:33.040] So the global online recruitment market is valued at around 33 billion. [12:33.040 --> 12:37.280] They're projecting it to go to 49.2 billion by 2030. [12:38.160 --> 12:44.160] There's a couple of things that when I saw it, I'm like, yes, it is going to grow because [12:44.160 --> 12:47.120] there is going to be more recruitment needs as we go. [12:47.120 --> 12:52.440] I just don't think that money is going to go where we think or where it's gone in the [12:52.440 --> 12:53.440] past, right? [12:53.440 --> 12:58.000] The majority of that spend on online digital recruitment has gone to the major job boards, [12:58.000 --> 13:00.720] like indeed, recruit holdings, LinkedIn. [13:00.720 --> 13:05.120] I think we are going to see that migrate to smaller players. [13:05.120 --> 13:07.960] I think there is going to be more targeted solutions. [13:07.960 --> 13:09.880] There's going to be more companies. [13:09.880 --> 13:16.400] I think the job board model will not go away, but I think we're going to see different ways [13:16.400 --> 13:19.280] to find people online. [13:19.280 --> 13:21.280] None have really made their mark yet. [13:21.280 --> 13:27.680] Like it's still an industry that's heavily dominated by LinkedIn and indeed, but watch [13:27.680 --> 13:34.240] out by 2030, LinkedIn and indeed will not be the majority of this spend. [13:34.240 --> 13:35.240] Don't have a market share. [13:35.240 --> 13:39.880] Don't get me wrong, but there will be other companies taking some of this market share. [13:39.880 --> 13:40.880] It's exciting times. [13:40.880 --> 13:43.120] I think there's lots of space. [13:43.120 --> 13:44.120] There's lots of room. [13:44.120 --> 13:45.720] So tip of the week, Shelley. [13:45.720 --> 13:48.480] Tip of the week brought to you by Plum. [13:48.480 --> 13:53.720] Plum knows that when people flourish, businesses thrive using science backed insights, Plum [13:53.720 --> 13:58.680] aligns human potential with job needs, allowing you to build high performing teams from a [13:58.680 --> 14:00.240] single platform. [14:00.280 --> 14:05.840] Ideal for improving hiring choices, identifying future leaders and offering personalized career [14:05.840 --> 14:12.400] advice, Plum supports the entire employee journey from higher to retire. [14:12.400 --> 14:14.560] Discover more at plum.io. [14:14.560 --> 14:25.320] The tip of the week this week is I'm going back to a blog article that I wrote in 2017. [14:25.320 --> 14:27.040] And guess what, Serge? [14:27.040 --> 14:31.440] It still is a problem is how we write job postings. [14:31.440 --> 14:37.200] So I just wanted to give the three simple things that you can do to improve your job postings. [14:37.200 --> 14:39.400] First of all, shorten up your sentences. [14:39.400 --> 14:43.480] If you can't say the sentence in one breath, it's too long. [14:43.480 --> 14:46.800] Second thing, woe down on the bullet points. [14:46.800 --> 14:53.320] Boil this up to three because if you have seven, I would hazard a guess that bullet point six [14:53.320 --> 14:58.600] and seven are just regurgitating what you said in the previous bullet points. [14:58.600 --> 15:01.920] And the last one, pay attention to how you say things. [15:01.920 --> 15:06.040] And I want to give you a really good example here, something you can sink your teeth into. [15:06.040 --> 15:12.240] So Textio, which is like an industry standard on the English language and how to write things [15:12.240 --> 15:15.280] to ensure you're not inferring bias. [15:15.280 --> 15:24.320] Textio says that by using the term demonstrated ability appeals strongly to older workers, [15:24.320 --> 15:29.360] but people in their 30s don't respond to demonstrated ability. [15:29.360 --> 15:36.680] And if you read 100 job ads, demonstrated ability, oh God, please find another way of saying that. [15:36.680 --> 15:42.080] Tip of the week, just do three simple things that can improve how well your job ads read. [15:43.080 --> 15:48.800] Yeah, demonstrated ability is an interesting one because how would you even explain that? [15:48.800 --> 15:50.400] What does that even mean? [15:50.400 --> 15:56.760] So when you're asking a question or putting a point in your job ad that you can't even describe [15:56.760 --> 16:00.000] or know exactly what it means, you probably should not put it on there. [16:00.000 --> 16:03.440] Shelly, fantastic tip of the week. [16:03.440 --> 16:10.800] So now it's the recruiting insights and recruiting insights brought to you by our friends at Metova. [16:10.800 --> 16:14.560] Shelly, are you tired of the same old outsourcing woes? [16:14.560 --> 16:17.120] Well, say hello to near-shoring. [16:17.120 --> 16:21.520] It's like outsourcing but closer and it won't make you pull your hair out. [16:21.520 --> 16:25.600] Picture this, top-notch IT talent from Latin American. [16:25.600 --> 16:30.080] Many Latin American IT professionals have strong English language skills [16:30.080 --> 16:31.840] and even live in the same time zone. [16:31.840 --> 16:34.240] So no more midnight conference calls. [16:34.240 --> 16:36.000] Hallelujah. [16:36.000 --> 16:41.680] Plus, Latin America's growing tech ecosystem, strong educational institutions, [16:41.680 --> 16:47.600] and a pool of skilled IT professionals make it the perfect region for recruiting talent. [16:47.600 --> 16:49.840] I have the perfect company that does this. [16:49.840 --> 16:52.000] In company's name is Metova. [16:52.000 --> 16:56.720] They have local experts who handle everything from recruiting to HR support. [16:57.520 --> 17:03.440] So why settle for the same old outsourcing blues when you can have the near-shoring party [17:03.520 --> 17:04.320] with Metova? [17:05.200 --> 17:09.760] Look them up at metova.com and let's get the fiesta started. [17:11.200 --> 17:16.560] Shelly, I don't know if you have been on LinkedIn and you follow the same people. [17:16.560 --> 17:23.280] I follow my whole LinkedIn feed is recruiters and old school recruiters as well. [17:23.280 --> 17:28.160] And there's been a lot of panic in the last, say, two to three weeks. [17:28.800 --> 17:30.720] And let me give you the context. [17:30.720 --> 17:36.960] But there's a lot of people really concerned about changes in LinkedIn and how you can do [17:36.960 --> 17:44.000] x-ray searches and leverage bouillon strings to find people directly on Google leveraging [17:44.000 --> 17:45.680] LinkedIn's data. [17:45.680 --> 17:50.400] So what LinkedIn is actually doing is they're putting limitation on their public data that's [17:50.400 --> 17:51.840] going to go out. [17:51.840 --> 17:58.640] So data that you were able to look for before is really hard to find. [17:58.720 --> 18:01.760] There's a couple of things that are no longer available. [18:01.760 --> 18:05.520] The key feels like job title and location are going to. [18:06.160 --> 18:08.400] Yeah, yeah. [18:08.400 --> 18:11.120] But then you dig in deeper to where they went to school. [18:11.920 --> 18:17.680] Anything they've put in there that's not public data or have shared as public data [18:17.680 --> 18:19.840] is not going to be searchable anymore. [18:20.640 --> 18:22.800] Do you know what the alternative is, Shelly? [18:23.920 --> 18:24.160] No. [18:24.960 --> 18:27.920] The alternative is you pay for a LinkedIn. [18:27.920 --> 18:32.320] Oh, one of the LinkedIn licenses for you to be able to do [18:32.320 --> 18:35.600] that searches directly through the LinkedIn platform. [18:35.600 --> 18:37.120] So I get it. [18:37.120 --> 18:41.520] There's a lot of people that have been leveraging this since 2008. [18:41.520 --> 18:42.800] And when did LinkedIn come out? [18:42.800 --> 18:44.480] Like probably 2004, I think. [18:44.480 --> 18:47.840] So if you think it's 2004, 2005, something like that. [18:47.840 --> 18:48.240] Yeah. [18:48.320 --> 18:51.600] And there is an industry of old school [18:51.600 --> 18:54.320] sources that are just genius at it. [18:54.320 --> 18:56.720] Like, Irena is an example. [18:56.720 --> 19:00.000] They're Steve Levy, Brian Fink. [19:00.000 --> 19:01.920] Like the list goes on and on. [19:01.920 --> 19:04.400] They've been doing this for a really long time. [19:04.400 --> 19:08.160] But if you look at the majority of people and how they search for people, [19:08.800 --> 19:12.640] I'm not sure that they're doing LinkedIn X-ray searches. [19:12.640 --> 19:16.560] But where is potentially a major concern is all these companies [19:16.560 --> 19:18.320] that are leveraging that data. [19:18.320 --> 19:20.160] Like we're talking about seek out. [19:20.160 --> 19:22.400] We're talking about higher easy. [19:22.400 --> 19:26.240] And we've seen letters come out from higher easy going to their clients, [19:26.240 --> 19:31.280] basically saying, hey, we're not grabbing all your information anymore. [19:31.280 --> 19:34.400] Or do you want to allow us to be able to grab this info? [19:35.760 --> 19:36.640] A lot of panic. [19:37.200 --> 19:37.760] I get it. [19:37.760 --> 19:39.440] And there is a lot of opportunity. [19:39.440 --> 19:43.440] I can tell you those old school sources that have been doing this for a long time [19:43.440 --> 19:44.400] have a plan. [19:44.400 --> 19:46.160] And they already have alternatives. [19:46.240 --> 19:48.800] And there's a couple of different sessions coming up on LinkedIn. [19:48.800 --> 19:50.000] And we'll share the notes. [19:50.000 --> 19:55.520] But there is one coming up with hung Lee or it hasn't already happened actually, [19:55.520 --> 19:55.840] Shelly. [19:57.040 --> 19:59.440] It's for no this Friday or no, right. [19:59.440 --> 19:59.920] Sorry. [19:59.920 --> 20:01.280] No, it was last Friday. [20:01.760 --> 20:02.160] Yeah. [20:02.160 --> 20:04.720] So go on recruiting brain food on LinkedIn. [20:04.720 --> 20:09.200] And you can find a really good session on ways that you can circumvent this change. [20:09.200 --> 20:12.560] So this change is not happening yet, but it is coming. [20:12.560 --> 20:18.080] So if you're a sorcerer that's leveraging a lot of the LinkedIn data through third party, [20:18.080 --> 20:21.440] or you're doing your own bouillon strings on Google, [20:21.440 --> 20:24.960] I think there's a lot of value in knowing exactly what is going on. [20:25.600 --> 20:31.920] But Shelly, I am not sure that I want all my data searchable externally out of LinkedIn, [20:31.920 --> 20:32.240] right? [20:32.240 --> 20:35.360] And LinkedIn has been notorious to be able to block that. [20:35.360 --> 20:37.120] So I'm not surprised they're doing this. [20:37.680 --> 20:44.240] And the outrage over a company that wants to sell the services and the value that they're [20:44.240 --> 20:50.400] driving out there makes sense to me that if you want to go that in-depth into their users, [20:50.400 --> 20:52.240] you do need to pay for it. [20:52.240 --> 20:54.320] Shelly, what was your overall take on all of this? [20:55.920 --> 21:00.080] So here's what's a real shame, honestly, because companies like [21:00.640 --> 21:08.160] seek out and hire easy, have solve for what the LinkedIn recruiter product fails to do. [21:08.960 --> 21:12.560] And that is make it easy for you as a recruiter to find people. [21:13.200 --> 21:14.720] So it's really a shame. [21:14.720 --> 21:18.880] And I can see if you're a client of some of these great sourcing firms, [21:18.880 --> 21:21.680] they do need to calm the waters down a bit here. [21:21.680 --> 21:26.320] Because I talk to clients all the time and always just curious how much they use their [21:26.400 --> 21:27.120] recruiter's seat. [21:27.120 --> 21:31.520] And usually it goes in bursts, but you pay all the same. [21:32.080 --> 21:36.160] And honestly, a source or can't rely just on one being LinkedIn. [21:36.800 --> 21:42.320] I think those that are casual recruiters, maybe if you're not doing it for a living or for a [21:42.320 --> 21:42.800] company. [21:42.800 --> 21:50.640] And I think the BrainFood survey last week, recruiting BrainFood survey showed that 53% [21:50.640 --> 21:52.960] of recruiters that responded to the survey were like, [21:52.960 --> 21:55.440] meth or what's x-ray? [21:57.520 --> 22:02.160] So I think it's a big deal to those who that's their lifeline. [22:02.160 --> 22:05.840] And if you built a business on one platform, when they go down, you go down. [22:05.840 --> 22:07.040] Yeah, I'm on the same page. [22:07.040 --> 22:11.840] Obviously, there's a lot of bias with people that have been doing this for a long time. [22:11.840 --> 22:14.160] And that's why it's dominated the conversation. [22:14.160 --> 22:19.680] But for the majority of recruiters or source or anyone that has really been recruiting, say, [22:19.680 --> 22:23.600] started 10 years ago, like, what is this LinkedIn x-ray? [22:23.600 --> 22:25.040] What is bullion search? [22:25.040 --> 22:26.640] Like, what does this mean? [22:26.640 --> 22:26.800] Right? [22:26.800 --> 22:29.920] So I don't think in the scope of things, it's really a big deal. [22:29.920 --> 22:34.720] But it's been a big topic of conversation within the recruitment industry. [22:34.720 --> 22:35.920] So we'll see what happens. [22:36.480 --> 22:36.720] Yeah. [22:37.600 --> 22:41.440] You know, even when I hear somebody talk about bullion search strength, [22:41.440 --> 22:48.160] I don't know if you know this search, but in the early 1990s, I wasn't the software developer. [22:49.120 --> 22:53.680] But that is a term that I remember and we're still relying on it. [22:53.680 --> 22:54.960] Has anybody heard of AI? [22:55.840 --> 22:59.280] I can't even believe that people are getting all their feathers ruffled over. [22:59.920 --> 23:02.240] I've developed these beautiful bullion strings. [23:02.240 --> 23:05.840] Yes, I've got a DOS computer sitting in my closet if you want to fire that up too. [23:07.440 --> 23:09.760] Tell us how you really feel, Shelley. [23:11.600 --> 23:13.840] Anyways, okay, moving on. [23:13.840 --> 23:15.440] I'm going to bring this up again this week. [23:16.240 --> 23:17.600] Boss, you know what? [23:17.600 --> 23:21.280] You can tune out at this point because he doesn't want us repeating topics. [23:21.280 --> 23:24.240] I know we get that feedback from our friend, Boss Von Hotrid. [23:24.800 --> 23:30.240] But I want to talk about skills-based hiring because the more we talk about it, the more people go, [23:30.960 --> 23:32.880] what, like, how do you do it? [23:32.880 --> 23:34.720] What is it that you're exactly talking about? [23:35.280 --> 23:43.040] So I found this report that talked about real examples of how organizations are implementing [23:43.040 --> 23:47.760] the skills based in their hiring and in their internal promotion process. [23:48.400 --> 23:53.920] But the most fascinating part of it was this study spoke to hiring leaders, hiring managers, [23:53.920 --> 23:56.080] and then employees and got their perspective. [23:56.720 --> 24:01.600] So if you ask workers, these are people doing the job, your current employees, [24:02.160 --> 24:07.760] how many of them believe that the formal qualifications that they were so-called hired, [24:08.400 --> 24:15.360] that is your degree or the experience or where you worked, how relevant is it to your job today? [24:16.080 --> 24:17.920] And this blew me away. [24:17.920 --> 24:25.360] 46% of workers say that their formal qualifications are not relevant to their job. [24:26.240 --> 24:35.120] Yet only 6% when you ask the HR leaders or the global business people believe that if they don't [24:35.200 --> 24:40.160] say you have to have this formal university degree, that it's going to have this negative [24:41.120 --> 24:44.960] impact on the talent that they're able to attract. [24:44.960 --> 24:48.000] Like how big can that gap be? [24:49.200 --> 24:52.880] 46% of people versus 6% of organizations. [24:53.600 --> 24:55.760] That is out of touch. [24:57.360 --> 24:59.200] Why do you think that is the case, Shelley? [24:59.920 --> 25:06.160] I think for the first time many organizations are going to start going back to the workers. [25:07.040 --> 25:11.920] As HR or as business leaders, we built the role based on what we knew. [25:13.520 --> 25:20.560] And unfortunately, that privilege or I had to have a university degree to get this job. [25:20.560 --> 25:25.920] So god damn it, everybody from this day forward is going to have a university degree. [25:26.000 --> 25:30.720] But what I loved about this was why don't you ask the people that are doing the work [25:30.720 --> 25:37.280] that took the courses that took the class that spent the anywhere from 80 to $120,000 to get this [25:38.000 --> 25:39.280] so valuable degree? [25:39.920 --> 25:44.320] How does it tie into the skills you have today to do your job? [25:44.320 --> 25:45.760] They don't have it. [25:45.760 --> 25:51.840] Ever, though, Shelley, have they ever matched the skill like even in the 90s, as you mentioned [25:51.840 --> 25:58.240] earlier, how many people in the 90s actually worked on what they went to school for outside [25:58.240 --> 25:59.120] of trades, right? [25:59.120 --> 26:04.720] If you think about the general population of what degree they got and what they ended up working, [26:04.720 --> 26:08.000] was it different in the good old days? [26:08.000 --> 26:10.640] I will say the 90s is so shocking to say that. [26:10.640 --> 26:11.760] Was this still a challenge? [26:13.680 --> 26:17.520] So we really should call out the sit down and stand up jobs here. [26:18.400 --> 26:23.600] Because there are stand up jobs, surgeons, teachers, tradespeople. [26:24.320 --> 26:29.920] There are stand up jobs where you really do need formal education and training. [26:29.920 --> 26:35.120] And you do have to have some sort of governing body that tests your knowledge. [26:35.760 --> 26:40.400] That's pretty important that you do have demonstrated ability. [26:42.400 --> 26:43.360] Okay, there it is. [26:43.360 --> 26:45.600] I used it in a sentence and it made sense. [26:46.160 --> 26:47.680] That's what we're talking about. [26:47.680 --> 26:51.600] But when we're talking about knowledge workers, you're absolutely right. [26:51.600 --> 26:59.600] Being forced to take a class on ancient literature of the 1700s for my degree in accounting. [26:59.600 --> 27:00.080] I don't know. [27:00.960 --> 27:04.160] Accounting is also one of those jobs, even though it's a sit down job. [27:04.160 --> 27:04.640] Yeah. [27:04.640 --> 27:10.400] What's good about those industries is that they're standardized assessments that say [27:10.400 --> 27:13.040] you must pass the CPA exam. [27:13.040 --> 27:15.680] That exam is the same no matter where you go in Canada. [27:16.560 --> 27:21.520] And then it becomes other industries like agriculture, natural resources, [27:21.520 --> 27:25.760] accommodation, food and leisure, aerospace, and healthcare. [27:25.760 --> 27:32.000] We can't speak in such broad sweeping terms to say that credentials and formal education don't count. [27:33.040 --> 27:36.880] And where are you even five years into your career journey? [27:36.880 --> 27:42.640] How much of what you learned in that degree versus focusing on what skills you have? [27:42.640 --> 27:43.760] I 100% agree. [27:43.760 --> 27:45.120] I think there's a couple of things. [27:45.120 --> 27:49.680] I'm glad you pointed out the standing up and sitting down job because standing up jobs, [27:49.680 --> 27:52.160] what you went to school is what you're doing. [27:52.160 --> 27:56.480] But that is not the majority of the economy, especially the knowledge economy, [27:56.480 --> 27:59.280] where let's just leverage recruiters. [27:59.280 --> 28:04.400] Like how many recruiters do you know that actually went to school for HR, [28:04.400 --> 28:06.240] business administration? [28:06.240 --> 28:11.360] There might be some, but the majority have come from completely different schools, [28:12.080 --> 28:14.000] learnings or different degrees. [28:14.000 --> 28:15.360] And they end up recruiting. [28:15.360 --> 28:16.480] We see this in sales. [28:16.480 --> 28:17.680] We see this in marketing. [28:17.680 --> 28:21.600] We see this in a lot of roles and employ a lot of people. [28:21.600 --> 28:24.000] So I don't think that's really changed over the years. [28:24.000 --> 28:28.240] And this is where micro learnings are absolutely critical. [28:28.240 --> 28:34.960] We haven't changed the education system to match what the type of jobs that we actually need [28:34.960 --> 28:37.040] and give them opportunity. [28:37.040 --> 28:42.800] It's a shame that we led everyone towards a university degree instead of other types [28:42.800 --> 28:43.440] of learnings. [28:43.440 --> 28:48.560] Then we can have the argument of learning to learn at university that there's the social [28:48.560 --> 28:49.520] contact. [28:49.520 --> 28:55.200] The funniest one that I hear is just the network that you build from going to a certain university. [28:55.200 --> 28:55.760] Okay. [28:55.760 --> 28:57.120] So let's talk about that. [28:57.120 --> 28:57.600] Yeah. [28:57.600 --> 29:04.000] Because this study also went on to talk about skill-based hiring because the who you know [29:04.000 --> 29:08.160] and getting hired based on who you know, we know that perpetuates bias. [29:08.160 --> 29:08.960] Yes. [29:08.960 --> 29:10.800] And so you're absolutely right. [29:10.800 --> 29:18.160] Because if you were not in the privileged group to build your network at school, then the [29:18.160 --> 29:23.040] skill-based approach, it levels the playing field is what it does. [29:23.040 --> 29:30.560] And particularly increasing the proportion of women that are in a talent pool, they're saying [29:30.560 --> 29:38.960] up to 24% increase when you use skill-based versus who you know and networking. [29:38.960 --> 29:41.840] I don't know if we're ever going to change it though, sir. [29:41.840 --> 29:45.840] Honestly, this whole idea of being referred and who you know. [29:45.840 --> 29:49.280] And I know this person, I'm going to vouch for their skills. [29:49.280 --> 29:53.760] Like the job referring industry, I don't know, it goes in waves. [29:54.480 --> 29:58.800] I think referrals are always going to be there and there's nothing wrong with referrals. [29:58.800 --> 30:04.160] But if you're putting referrals and normal applicants and people you've sourced and all [30:04.160 --> 30:09.520] the same bucket and are going through the same testing and are measured on the same things, [30:10.240 --> 30:12.880] I have no issues with referrals in that case. [30:12.880 --> 30:15.120] But I think what happens is they get a preference. [30:15.120 --> 30:19.760] We talked about this so many times that they don't go through as many interviews. [30:19.760 --> 30:24.080] There's a lot more leniency if they don't do well in the interview is kind of like, [30:24.160 --> 30:25.920] no, no, Joe thinks he's great. [30:25.920 --> 30:28.800] So he's not a great interview, but we're going to hire him. [30:28.800 --> 30:30.640] I am on the same page. [30:30.640 --> 30:35.840] Shelley, I think skill-based hiring is something that we're going to spend a lot of time on pretty [30:35.840 --> 30:41.200] much every week because we do believe it's a big part of the future of talent acquisition. [30:41.200 --> 30:44.160] We'll go more in-depth on different aspects of skill-based hiring. [30:44.160 --> 30:49.600] But to see the data in front of you like this, it makes it really clear that we have to change [30:49.600 --> 30:50.080] something. [30:50.640 --> 30:56.240] Shelley, I'm going to end on one quick glass recruiting insights because we talked about [30:56.240 --> 30:58.560] a lot of layoffs and you call me Debbie Downer. [30:58.560 --> 31:02.800] So I want to give you some upside and maybe I'll give you a little bit of Debbie Downer [31:02.800 --> 31:03.760] after the fact. [31:03.760 --> 31:06.640] Obviously, we heard about a lot of layoffs in 2023. [31:06.640 --> 31:11.280] It was a major shift from 2022 to 2021 with massive hiring. [31:12.000 --> 31:18.400] But as I said at the start, it was a lot of the high profile companies that just make the news. [31:18.480 --> 31:19.280] They're exciting. [31:19.280 --> 31:21.200] They're consumer products that we know. [31:21.920 --> 31:23.360] So we hear about it. [31:23.360 --> 31:31.280] The good news here, 85% of midsize companies reported zero layoffs last year. [31:31.280 --> 31:38.320] So this is based on a survey data of 7,500 HR professionals across 48 country and it was done [31:38.320 --> 31:39.120] by Mercer. [31:39.120 --> 31:43.440] Here's a couple of data points that goes against what we talk at the start. [31:43.440 --> 31:46.960] You're more likely to get laid off if you're a remote worker. [31:46.960 --> 31:48.000] But guess what? [31:48.000 --> 31:52.000] A lot of people are hiring remote workers and recruiters. [31:52.000 --> 31:52.960] Smaller companies. [31:52.960 --> 31:53.920] The midsize. [31:53.920 --> 31:54.720] Smaller companies, yes. [31:54.720 --> 32:00.000] So it's almost pick your poison if you want to work for one of these big brands. [32:00.000 --> 32:07.680] You run a greater risk of getting laid off because 85% of midsize companies had zero layoffs last year. [32:07.680 --> 32:12.480] Yeah, and the biggest factor here, Shelley, in my opinion, is the difference between a public [32:12.480 --> 32:13.360] and private company. [32:13.360 --> 32:16.480] If you're a private company and you're profitable, you're not laying off [32:16.480 --> 32:17.920] anyone, right? [32:17.920 --> 32:19.680] You're running the business. [32:19.680 --> 32:21.120] You're thinking long term. [32:21.120 --> 32:22.960] You're thinking three to five years from now. [32:22.960 --> 32:26.960] If you're a public company, a lot of companies are doing layoffs. [32:28.080 --> 32:33.040] I like saying layoffs because it's a way to rise their stock price. [32:33.040 --> 32:36.560] And I know a couple of examples here in our local market. [32:36.560 --> 32:41.040] That's the only reason a lot of it with big companies, there is that risk. [32:41.040 --> 32:42.640] You are not a person. [32:42.640 --> 32:44.640] You're a number at the end of the day. [32:44.640 --> 32:46.720] So that's my Debbie Downer side of it. [32:47.520 --> 32:48.320] True. [32:48.320 --> 32:50.160] And that are fantastic episodes. [32:50.160 --> 32:54.960] So great to talk about all the bad news, but also all the good news. [32:54.960 --> 32:57.200] So everyone listening, we really appreciate it. [32:57.200 --> 32:58.480] Have a good week. [32:58.480 --> 32:59.120] Have fun. [33:07.600 --> 33:09.120] Shelley, let's face it. [33:09.120 --> 33:12.720] Taxing candidates is the easiest way to hire quicker today. [33:13.280 --> 33:15.920] But your cell phone doesn't connect to your ATS. [33:15.920 --> 33:18.320] You're sharing your personal number with strangers. [33:18.320 --> 33:20.160] It's pretty scary, right, Shelley? [33:20.160 --> 33:22.560] And it's not even legally compliant. [33:23.280 --> 33:25.760] This is where our friends at RecText come in. [33:25.760 --> 33:31.120] They've created simple yet powerful text recruiting software that works with your ATS. [33:31.120 --> 33:35.120] Plus, it's designed by recruiters for recruiters. [33:35.120 --> 33:36.240] So you know it works. [33:36.960 --> 33:43.840] To learn more and book a demo, visit www.rectct.com. [33:44.480 --> 33:48.400] Mention the recruitment flex and get 10% off annual plans. [33:48.400 --> 33:50.080] Hi, my name is Sara. [33:50.080 --> 33:52.400] And I want to tell you about my podcast called, [33:52.400 --> 33:53.920] Can I offer you some feedback? [33:53.920 --> 33:56.160] I'm a business consultant and executive coach [33:56.160 --> 33:58.960] with over 20 years experience in change management, [33:58.960 --> 34:02.800] leadership development, and naturally providing feedback to high performers. [34:02.800 --> 34:06.480] My podcast is for those of you who have a complicated relationship with feedback, [34:06.480 --> 34:09.600] whether giving, receiving, avoiding, or seeking. [34:09.600 --> 34:11.600] Feedback is essential for our development. [34:11.600 --> 34:14.240] In each episode, you'll hear from real people [34:14.240 --> 34:18.960] across industries with their ideas, perspectives, and best practices on feedback. [34:18.960 --> 34:21.120] I'll also be sharing business fights with you. [34:21.120 --> 34:23.840] Simple explanations of organizational tools, [34:23.840 --> 34:26.320] management techniques, and leadership philosophies [34:26.320 --> 34:28.640] that will help you and your businesses thrive. [34:28.640 --> 34:29.680] You can listen to, [34:29.680 --> 34:32.720] can I offer you some feedback on your favorite podcast app [34:32.720 --> 34:38.320] or learn more at evergreenpodcasts.com. Transcription results written to '/home/forge/transcribe2.sonicengage.com/releases/20240207164437' directory
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